Selling 'Make Money Online' Unethical?

100 replies
I have a real issue with the fact that most products sold to teach you to make money online tell you to sell/promote products about making money online.

Does this not seem strange to anyone else?

The whole industry is feeding off a need to make money and then teaching them to sell information about how to make money.

If this was done on the street it would look like this and you would probably get arrested; You walk up to a person on the street and you say, "Give me $10 and I will teach you how to get people to give you $10". They give you $10 and you tell them, "Go up to other people and tell them you will teach them how to get people to give you $10, if they give you $10". This goes on and on but nothing gets produced. Of course a veneer of legitimacy is added if you sell them a video on a CD on how to get people to give you $10. But it's no different.

Your thoughts?
#make #money #online #selling #unethical
  • Profile picture of the author BacklinkzTopper
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674167].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
    Originally Posted by Iamthetwo View Post

    I have a real issue with the fact that most products sold to teach you to make money online tell you to sell/promote products about making money online.

    Does this not seem strange to anyone else?

    The whole industry is feeding off a need to make money and then teaching them to sell information about how to make money.

    If this was done on the street it would look like this and you would probably get arrested; You walk up to a person on the street and you say, "Give me $10 and I will teach you how to get people to give you $10". They give you $10 and you tell them, "Go up to other people and tell them you will teach them how to get people to give you $10, if they give you $10". This goes on and on but nothing gets produced. Of course a veneer of legitimacy is added if you sell them a video on a CD on how to get people to give you $10. But it's no different.

    Your thoughts?
    It all depends on what products you promote. I have been in that niche since I started my business in 2008 and it's been extremely profitable for me. Of course, I physically review every product I promote, and I don't promote products that teach you how to make money online per se.

    I promote products that are tools to help you with your online business, whatever niche you may be in. For instance, WordPress plugins, YouTube software, PLR reseller packages, etc.

    I agree that there are a lot of people in the MMO niche who are very shady, though.

    Still, I don't see a problem with the niche if it's done ethically.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674178].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author DRP
    OP, it IS unethical and it is technically illegal (see: cash gifting). Of course, the drones here will justify their actions, and the actions of others, any way that they can. You can't reason with liars, sociopaths, or narcissists, of which IM is largely comprised of.

    Also, your signature is noble, but it won't help you sell anything. There is a reason why there is a superfluity of BS online...it's because it sells. Truth is ugly...lies are beautiful. Thems the breaks. I'm on your side...but it's the losing side.
    Signature
    I'd rather tell you an ugly truth than a pretty lie.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674246].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TheGMa
      Originally Posted by DRP View Post

      OP, it IS unethical and it is technically illegal (see: cash gifting). Of course, the drones here will justify their actions, and the actions of others, any way that they can. You can't reason with liars, sociopaths, or narcissists, of which IM is largely comprised of.

      Also, your signature is noble, but it won't help you sell anything. There is a reason why BS is superfluous online...it's because it sells. Truth is ugly...lies are beautiful. Thems the breaks. I'm on your side...but it's the losing side.
      Iamthetwo's signature today
      Thought of the day: People are not email addresses, prospects or numbers. They are living breathing people with dreams, hopes and emotions. Stop trying to trick them into buying your latest product with slick psychology and maybe you will gain raving, loyal fans who buy everything you recommend, instead of another unsubscribe to replace. (just a thought)
      Okay DRP, I'm confused. Exactly how are you selling whatever it is you sell? (btw - superfluous means more than is necessary, like say ... an expectant mother of 1 with 3 cribs; 2 of of the cribs are superfluous).

      Since the first clam shells were put up for trade, they were bought from the guy whom everyone trusted, not his neighbor who sells shells with cracks in them and treats potential customers like so much dirt.

      Chiming in with my 2 cents - yeah, selling somebody a make money book that teaches you how to sell the same make money book is cheap, tawdry, and altogether slimy in my opinion.

      Selling somebody a book that teaches them how to sell their own book about whatever is totally legitimate. If not, we'd best do away with schools, 'cause textbooks, though sometimes nearly worthless, cost a bloody fortune and they teach people how to do all sorts of things, albeit not always very well. Been there, studied that.

      While doing research for an article, I clicked on an unrelated link out of curiosity. It led me to the sales page of a book that teaches coaching and promises that merely by applying what's in the course, one can hang up a shingle reading "Internet Marketing Coach Here".

      Really. Barf barf barf.

      - Annie
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10675998].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    Welcome to the make money online world.

    99% of the people teaching how to make money online don't have the first clue how to do it.

    They read a few ebooks from "gurus" that tell them to sell what they learned in the ebook, which is total garbage itself. It's a vicious cycle with no end in site.
    Signature
    SEO, AdWords Management, Social Media Marketing, and more.
    Get a FREE Quote.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674262].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author deceuninck
      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post


      99% of the people teaching how to make money online don't have the first clue how to do it.

      They read a few ebooks from "gurus" that tell them to sell what they learned in the ebook, which is total garbage itself. It's a vicious cycle with no end in site.
      How training gurus, there those who really makes money in the Internet?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10678826].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Steve B
    Originally Posted by Iamthetwo View Post

    I have a real issue with the fact that most products sold to teach you to make money online tell you to sell/promote products about making money online.

    I, for one, have found great value in some of the "make money online" products that I have purchased. To say, or even suggest, that all products in this niche are unethical or have no value is far, far, far from the truth.

    Marketers have to learn their craft somehow and not all can afford personal mentors or coaches. So they buy ebooks, courses, memberships, and other info products to learn what they need to know.

    I agree that there are many very poor and some worthless "make money" products for sale . . . you simply have to stay away from those.

    As is always the case . . . buyer beware! You are responsible for your own due diligence prior to making any purchase.

    I have a problem with sellers in the "make money online" niche who are faking it or trying to teach without having personal successful experience selling online . . . but there are some very legitimate 6- and 7- figure earners that are sharing what they do. Why should this concern you?

    Steve
    Signature

    Steve Browne, online business strategies, tips, guidance, and resources
    SteveBrowneDirect

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674271].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author discrat
    Originally Posted by Iamthetwo View Post

    I have a real issue with the fact that most products sold to teach you to make money online tell you to sell/promote products about making money online.

    Does this not seem strange to anyone else?

    The whole industry is feeding off a need to make money and then teaching them to sell information about how to make money.

    If this was done on the street it would look like this and you would probably get arrested; You walk up to a person on the street and you say, "Give me $10 and I will teach you how to get people to give you $10". They give you $10 and you tell them, "Go up to other people and tell them you will teach them how to get people to give you $10, if they give you $10". This goes on and on but nothing gets produced. Of course a veneer of legitimacy is added if you sell them a video on a CD on how to get people to give you $10. But it's no different.

    Your thoughts?
    Not all MMO products.Niches.

    I do agree when it is teaching a Coach how to be a coach who turns around and teaches others how to be a Coach who then turns around and yet again teaches others how to teach others how to be a Coach etc..etc..

    That is just a viscous cycle that really offers NO intrinsic value.

    But on the other hand MMO Niches like teaching others Email Marketing in the weight loss industry or providing SEO Services to a Mom and POP store on Main St. is NOT unethical, imo !!


    - Robert Andrew
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674276].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Donnarama
      Well said, the coaching thing just irks me, as well as selling membership levels of "nothing".
      Originally Posted by discrat View Post

      Not all MMO products.Niches.

      I do agree when it is teaching a Coach how to be a coach who turns around and teaches others how to be a Coach who then turns around and yet again teaches others how to teach others how to be a Coach etc..etc..

      That is just a viscous cycle that really offers NO intrinsic value.

      But on the other hand MMO Niches like teaching others Email Marketing in the weight loss industry or providing SEO Services to a Mom and POP store on Main St. is NOT unethical, imo !!


      - Robert Andrew
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10679881].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author alldigitaltalk
    OP, You have a very valid point. It's totally unethical. All hype, no one provides any real way to make money online.

    You have tricked one person, now he will not fall prey again to your offers. But the fresh set of people are always ready to fall prey to the glamorous good for nothing products.

    It becomes very difficult to trust the 1% legitimate people who really teach good stuff about making money online.

    At the end of the day, every action will have an equal and opposite reaction. If you earn money in an unethical way you lose it as easily as you made it.

    After all, there is a difference between street peddlers who never gain any trust and never grow into big businesses. And there are businesses which provide great service and gain their customers trust and grow into large businesses.

    BTW, your thought of the day was very motivating.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674296].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SiteNameSales
    You're articulating one of the best ways to make money online: Your own experience.

    The idea of making money from your kitchen table while all your neighbors are shoveling snow out their driveways so they won't be late for work is very alluring a lot of people.

    No doubt, the percentage of people who actually become self-supporting while doing this is small, but that doesn't mean that money can't be made nor does it mean that you can't eventually become self-supporting over time.

    And it certainly doesn't mean that because a lot of people have had bad experiences that all the marketing courses online are scams. Happy to have you chime in but, you articulate a familiar refrain around here. Don't take all the bad apples as a reflection of the industry as a whole.

    The other refrain you read around here is that the ones who make it have taken some lumps, but have kept their eyes on the prize. Those bad experiences (and I have had my share) become guidelines as to who to trust and who to avoid.

    I don't know who said it, but I'm sure someone around here must have said that if making money online were so easy, the Warrior Forum would become the next Facebook.

    This is a rather round-about way of hoping you don't become too discouraged, continue your search and keep an open mind.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674313].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Iamthetwo
    Thanks for all your comments. I'm happy I'm not the only one. I agree that selling tools and word-press plugins etc does not fall under the same category. I think people easily stray into a grey area often though. I nearly did but found myself feeling dirty. This feeling prompted this post. It's tempting because it's a path of least resistance.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674315].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author kybudman
      Originally Posted by Iamthetwo View Post

      Thanks for all your comments. I'm happy I'm not the only one. I agree that selling tools and word-press plugins etc does not fall under the same category. I think people easily stray into a grey area often though. I nearly did but found myself feeling dirty. This feeling prompted this post. It's tempting because it's a path of least resistance.
      In my humble opinion...

      If you were to engage in the kind of online marketing that your example portrays, I would say you should feel dirty. There are plenty of us out here who do NOT do such things, do not teach them, and would try to dissuade anyone they knew and respected from getting anywhere near anyone who did them.

      It doesn't always take getting burned once to find out that this one person is a total jerk. There really is a community of professional, ethical and legal online marketers available to anyone wishing to engage them. You can usually find them right here. (As perhaps you can tell from the responses you have received. This place is brim full of jerk products, jerk reports, etc. You might have to do a little bit of research to get the most recent updates, but that is a cost of doing business--especially this business. It is an entire universe better than it was a couple or so decades ago, when I was first trying to get started. Ask questions, seek corroboration, check twice, measure twice, ask again...THEN cut.

      Good luck on your journey.
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10700736].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author BradVert2013
    It depends. Not all products are equal. I'm getting ready to sell an ebook about how to make money as a freelance writer - mostly working online. It's a real business. I don't see how that is unethical. Some people just need a nudge in the right direction and that's what I'm offering.

    Yes, there are some very dubious products out there that are scams. But just because it's about making money online doesn't necessarily mean it's unethical.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674317].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Iamthetwo
      Originally Posted by BradVert2013 View Post

      It depends. Not all products are equal. I'm getting ready to sell an ebook about how to make money as a freelance writer - mostly working online. It's a real business. I don't see how that is unethical. Some people just need a nudge in the right direction and that's what I'm offering.

      Yes, there are some very dubious products out there that are scams. But just because it's about making money online doesn't necessarily mean it's unethical.
      My complaint is not about making money online with a service. Of course freelance writing is legit. You are producing something. My issue is when you buy a product saying "how to make $200 a day online. Then you tell them to sell a guide called "How to make $200 a day online" as a way to make $200 a day online.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674322].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Ashok Panda
        Very well Said. If closely observed , many providers / sellers are tricking people to buy something.. Even the high value products are pushed through affiliates .. people are hungry to buy and have big hopes.. so these sellers are successful. however its not going to long last. Anything that doesn't have real value crumbles down. That's a conservation of energy principle. what goes around comes around.



        Originally Posted by Iamthetwo View Post

        My complaint is not about making money online with a service. Of course freelance writing is legit. You are producing something. My issue is when you buy a product saying "how to make $200 a day online. Then you tell them to sell a guide called "How to make $200 a day online" as a way to make $200 a day online.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674356].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author danieldesai
        Originally Posted by Iamthetwo View Post

        My complaint is not about making money online with a service. Of course freelance writing is legit. You are producing something. My issue is when you buy a product saying "how to make $200 a day online. Then you tell them to sell a guide called "How to make $200 a day online" as a way to make $200 a day online.
        Oh yes, I forgot to address this.

        I agree with you here.

        An ethical "make money online" course should teach you how to actually connect people to a product they want, in almost any niche.

        In any case, if the only thing you can teach is how to sell "make money online" products, you're not a very good marketer.

        Daniel
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674365].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author danieldesai
    I think it largely boils down to what you're selling, and how you sell it.

    If you're selling a product (your own or an affiliate offer) that teaches information which does not work, that's unethical.

    If you're selling a product that teaches information that DOES work, and is valuable to someone who implements it, I don't see any ethical issue there.

    If you're selling a product based on lies, even if it's a good product in itself, I consider that unethical.

    Simply put, you should only sell something that lives up to what it promises and avoid deceitful marketing practices.

    Of course, this goes without saying but many (if not most) of the products in the make money online space are overhyped, misleading, or just present damaging advice.

    I consider myself fortunate to have mostly invested in only high quality products that are actually worth what I paid.

    Regards,
    Daniel
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674332].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Iamthetwo
      Originally Posted by danieldesai View Post

      I think it largely boils down to what you're selling, and how you sell it.

      If you're selling a product (your own or an affiliate offer) that teaches information which does not work, that's unethical.

      If you're selling a product that teaches information that DOES work, and is valuable to someone who implements it, I don't see any ethical issue there.

      If you're selling a product based on lies, even if it's a good product in itself, I consider that unethical.

      Simply put, you should only sell something that lives up to what it promises and avoid deceitful marketing practices.

      Of course, this goes without saying but many (if not most) of the products in the make money online space are overhyped, misleading, or just presents damaging advice.

      I consider myself fortunate to have mostly invested in only high quality products that are actually worth what I paid.

      Regards,
      Daniel
      Yes I Agree.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10675549].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author tich
    Originally Posted by Iamthetwo View Post

    I have a real issue with the fact that most products sold to teach you to make money online tell you to sell/promote products about making money online.

    Does this not seem strange to anyone else?

    The whole industry is feeding off a need to make money and then teaching them to sell information about how to make money.

    If this was done on the street it would look like this and you would probably get arrested; You walk up to a person on the street and you say, "Give me $10 and I will teach you how to get people to give you $10". They give you $10 and you tell them, "Go up to other people and tell them you will teach them how to get people to give you $10, if they give you $10". This goes on and on but nothing gets produced. Of course a veneer of legitimacy is added if you sell them a video on a CD on how to get people to give you $10. But it's no different.

    Your thoughts?
    I have to disagree with you. Just because you are selling a product as an affiliate
    does not mean that you are the teacher.
    Offline, it would look like this... You recommend a service and you are paid referral fee.
    Nothing new.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674361].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Iamthetwo
      Originally Posted by tich View Post

      I have to disagree with you. Just because you are selling a product as an affiliate
      does not mean that you are the teacher.
      Offline, it would look like this... You recommend a service and you are paid referral fee.
      Nothing new.
      Not quite sure what you mean, but IF I am understanding you correctly, you are justifying a wrong by saying "I did not make it, so it's OK"? Would you recommend a product to a good friend which you have not even checked out or you know it's crap? I'm hope you would not, unless your moral compass has been dropped too many times. If something is unethical, the fact that you did not create it and simply 'recommend' it. does not remove you from the wrongdoing. This would be like knowing that a restaurant gives people food poisoning, but you recommend it anyway because you make a commission and hey you are not the one who is cooking the food so it's fine. If I misunderstood you, please ignore these comments. :-)
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10675557].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author art72
    I mean after reading your post 2x to make sure I understood what you believe is unethical, I do agree MLM's pushing recruitment commissions stacked upon a cheesy piece of regurgitated PLR (private label rights product) that has no REAL value is unethical.

    Also, selling from a prospective without knowledge or proof is also unethical.

    However, I have to DEFEND a large portion of the MMO (make money online) community, not because I currently make money selling these items, but because I have learned "How to" make money through such products.

    If you go over to Clickbank and look at "The Truth About Six Pack Abs" - Mike Geary has made millions selling a cheap eBook, and much of his success centers on the marketing practices techniques, training and building affiliate associates and JV Partners... all of which consists of making money online practices, procedures, processes, and systems. People who sell and teach proven systems, and the process are in fact, providing a service, albeit it's through a digital book, video, or digital form of media.

    How many bad books have you read offline?

    How many movies repulsed you that someone actually wasted your time making such crap?

    This is not limited to online...it's everywhere!

    So, what's the difference if Mike Geary makes millions, as long as his customers receive value, solutions, knowledge, etc...

    The same applies to EVERY niche market, I don't care if your a PIMP or Selling a course on How I made 12 Million doing email marketing, as Anik just released. Most "ethical" marketers offer 30-60-or-90 Money-back Guarantees, and will often "Over-Deliver" sharing trade secrets.

    O.K. so let's say you work in a Corporate environment... yeah, it may seem impractical, unethical, and down-right unorthodox to witness people actually selling others information... because in the Brick n' Mortar setting giving away your secrets, might replace your ass with a younger, better looking, energetic employee...

    But, in this "ARENA" anything goes... which does often introduce some scumbags, con-artists, and spammers, etc.

    However, in the right environment, even prostitution can be conducted ethically.

    If you want to talk about unethical... watch the politicians, if you think MMO is bad, these political leaders make me sick! - They sell and sow more lies than the Pope does Bibles.

    IMHO... I believe, any area of life be it relationships, business, family, etc... should be conducted more ethically, and yet, the world in and of itself... is occupied by "us" ignorant human beings... How ever could we hope for the opportunity to be any greater to educate ourselves than through 'personal experience' and goodwill... and the internet (and digital media, virtual real estate) is that vessel...so, of course, people are buying "How to's" and "What Not's" it's the wave of the future, and it's here today!

    You see the cup 1/2 empty as many jumped on your bandwagon... but, I see this cup overflowing to the tune of $670 BILLION DOLLARS... tap into it, ethically, of course!

    All the Best,

    Art
    Signature
    Coming Soon... *Laser Targeted Lead Generation Services
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674372].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author danieldesai
      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      Also, selling from a prospective without knowledge or proof is also unethical.
      Exactly, few things are worse than the blind leading the blind in the internet marketing space.


      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      However, in the right environment, even prostitution can be conducted ethically.
      Oh Art, I know that this will ruffle some feathers.

      But I also agree with this.

      Daniel
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674382].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author art72
        Originally Posted by danieldesai View Post

        Exactly, few things are worse than the blind leading the blind in the internet marketing space.




        Oh Art, I know that this will ruffle some feathers.

        But I also agree with this.

        Daniel
        Truth be told... I've been married 24 years, and have never paid a greater price for loving, add in 5 kids, ... I'm thinking in my next life I'll be celibate,

        I have an ongoing theory concerning 'prostitution' but not from the sexual vantage-point... more over, how many people trade their precious time for far less than what it is worth?

        We've all done it... or at least I have traded time for wages far beneath my time's value, hence my jab at certain politicians, as with a word and a war... they can plague nations in fear, cause recessions, destroy lives (like mine was after George Bush) - and reduce the value of a dollar through inflation (and printing more) that I am seeking this lifestyle to 'escape' to countries where I can live like a king, lol.

        Sorry, I'm reading the (*Digital Version, lol) of "The 4-Hour Work Week" by Tim Ferriss... powerful stuff!
        Signature
        Coming Soon... *Laser Targeted Lead Generation Services
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674401].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Iamthetwo
      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      I mean after reading your post 2x to make sure I understood what you believe is unethical, I do agree MLM's pushing recruitment commissions stacked upon a cheesy piece of regurgitated PLR (private label rights product) that has no REAL value is unethical.

      Also, selling from a prospective without knowledge or proof is also unethical.

      However, I have to DEFEND a large portion of the MMO (make money online) community, not because I currently make money selling these items, but because I have learned "How to" make money through such products.

      If you go over to Clickbank and look at "The Truth About Six Pack Abs" - Mike Geary has made millions selling a cheap eBook, and much of his success centers on the marketing practices techniques, training and building affiliate associates and JV Partners... all of which consists of making money online practices, procedures, processes, and systems. People who sell and teach proven systems, and the process are in fact, providing a service, albeit it's through a digital book, video, or digital form of media.

      How many bad books have you read offline?

      How many movies repulsed you that someone actually wasted your time making such crap?

      This is not limited to online...it's everywhere!

      So, what's the difference if Mike Geary makes millions, as long as his customers receive value, solutions, knowledge, etc...

      The same applies to EVERY niche market, I don't care if your a PIMP or Selling a course on How I made 12 Million doing email marketing, as Anik just released. Most "ethical" marketers offer 30-60-or-90 Money-back Guarantees, and will often "Over-Deliver" sharing trade secrets.

      O.K. so let's say you work in a Corporate environment... yeah, it may seem impractical, unethical, and down-right unorthodox to witness people actually selling others information... because in the Brick n' Mortar setting giving away your secrets, might replace your ass with a younger, better looking, energetic employee...

      But, in this "ARENA" anything goes... which does often introduce some scumbags, con-artists, and spammers, etc.

      However, in the right environment, even prostitution can be conducted ethically.

      If you want to talk about unethical... watch the politicians, if you think MMO is bad, these political leaders make me sick! - They sell and sow more lies than the Pope does Bibles.

      IMHO... I believe, any area of life be it relationships, business, family, etc... should be conducted more ethically, and yet, the world in and of itself... is occupied by "us" ignorant human beings... How ever could we hope for the opportunity to be any greater to educate ourselves than through 'personal experience' and goodwill... and the internet (and digital media, virtual real estate) is that vessel...so, of course, people are buying "How to's" and "What Not's" it's the wave of the future, and it's here today!

      You see the cup 1/2 empty as many jumped on your bandwagon... but, I see this cup overflowing to the tune of $670 BILLION DOLLARS... tap into it, ethically, of course!

      All the Best,

      Art
      I appreciate you taking the time to reply and your thoughtful response. The cup 1/2 empty comment was not necessary but I forgive you . I can see your point and in fact I too have actually learned something from some courses where I felt they were unethical. Just to be clear I'm against the practice of making the product you are buying, the very thing you are selling to make money online. If the guide is about selling a different service or product online then I don't have an issue with that. I will admit, you have made me think deeper about this. Thanks.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10675628].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MValmont
    Who told you to do that exactly? I would want some names....

    Oh, and I DO teach people how to make money online, and NO, this is not because I'm not making money with what i'm teaching (Kindle), it is because I want to make MORE money.

    I actually don't see the logic here.

    All the people that teach boxing don't know how to box?
    All the people that teach English don't know how to speak english?
    All the people teaching mathematics don't know how to do math?

    ??

    Again, the reason most people don't make money is because their mindset is so weak. Just look at how you think. You are your worst own enemy.

    You have not even convinced that this stuff work and this is why you come here and create this thread. You want evidences that it doesn't work to back up your limiting belief.

    The truth is this: Most people that teach how to make money online with a method DO KNOW what they are talking about. They decide to teach other people because first of all, helping other people is fun and also, the how to make money online market is huge so there is a lot of money to be made in that niche. Does that mean they don't know what they are talking about? No.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674405].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author danieldesai
      Originally Posted by MValmont View Post

      All the people that teach boxing don't know how to box?
      All the people that teach English don't know how to speak english?
      All the people teaching mathematics don't know how to do math?

      ??

      Again, the reason most people don't make money is because their mindset is so weak. Just look at how you think. You are your worst own enemy.

      You have not even convinced that this stuff work and this is why you come here and create this thread. You want evidences that it doesn't work to back up your limiting belief.
      Hey Valmont, you have the wrong guy.

      I assume you're talking about DRP - "Those that can, DO; those who can't, TEACH."

      He didn't make the thread, someone else did.

      The OP, Iamthetwo, is talking about selling make money products that only teach you how to sell make money products, as opposed to teaching how to sell almost anything or providing some sort of value outside that cycle.

      Daniel
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674415].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author MValmont
        Originally Posted by danieldesai View Post

        Hey Valmont, you have the wrong guy.

        I assume you're talking about DRP - "Those that can, DO; those who can't, TEACH."

        He didn't make the thread, someone else did.

        The OP, Iamthetwo, is talking about selling make money products that only teach you how to sell make money products, as opposed to teaching how to sell almost anything or providing some sort of value outside that cycle.

        Daniel
        Who exactly teaches other people to do that? I don't know one.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674425].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author danieldesai
          Originally Posted by MValmont View Post

          Who exactly teaches other people to do that? I don't know one.
          I don't know anyone either.

          I'm just saying it's not the OP who said some of the things you were addressing.

          Daniel
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674435].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author art72
      Originally Posted by MValmont View Post

      I actually don't see the logic here.

      All the people that teach boxing don't know how to box?
      All the people that teach English don't know how to speak english?
      All the people teaching mathematics don't know how to do math?


      ??

      Again, the reason most people don't make money is because their mindset is so weak. Just look at how you think. You are your worst own enemy.

      You have not even convinced that this stuff work and this is why you come here and create this thread. You want evidences that it doesn't work to back up your limiting belief.

      The truth is this: Most people that teach how to make money online with a method DO KNOW what they are talking about. They decide to teach other people because first of all, helping other people is fun and also, the how to make money online market is huge so there is a lot of money to be made in that niche. Does that mean they don't know what they are talking about? No.

      This^^^

      However, not all football coaches had to wear the jersey to take their team to the Super Bowl, either.

      In fact, I had a baseball coach growing up, his name was; Wally Clarke - he came back from Vietnam with both his legs missing, half his fingers, a ton of scars, and yet... he was the most inspirational and best damn baseball coach I ever had.

      Meanwhile, my father returned from Vietnam with everything in tact, and was mentally debilitated, and in short... was never really a father at all...hence, another show of fingers for my lovely government.

      In short, I see people from every country "who are sewn by the same thread" seeking personal and financial freedom, and the lines of prejudge-mental bias...being the real problem.

      I'm not suggesting we will all agree - or saying there's no need for debate as it stimulates changes and provokes action for the greater good...

      But, c'mon OP... you cannot possibly come into the World's #1 Internet Marketing forum, and bash internet marketers... [bites tongue]
      Signature
      Coming Soon... *Laser Targeted Lead Generation Services
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674420].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author danieldesai
        Originally Posted by art72 View Post

        But, c'mon OP... you cannot possibly come into the World's #1 Internet Marketing forum, and bash internet marketers... [bites tongue]
        Poor OP.

        It's actually DRP who Valmont was talking about, OP was just talking about people who sell make money products that only teach you how to sell more make money products (as opposed to teaching you to sell other products).

        Daniel
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674430].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author art72
          Originally Posted by danieldesai View Post

          Poor OP.

          It's actually DRP who Valmont was talking about, OP was just talking about people who sell make money products that only teach you how to sell more make money products (as opposed to teaching you to sell other products).

          Daniel
          Thanks Daniel,

          Oops... misread his message. Took the OP part out.

          While I agree people should NOT attempt to teach people "How to make money online, unless they actually know the actual process, systems, mindset, etc..."

          I do however "argue" that you do not need to be FAT to sell weight loss products, I don't need to know how to play guitar to sell top notch guitar lessons, or permission or a degree to promote anything that solves another persons needs, wants, or desires... provided I know the product delivers value to the end user... which requires research.

          However, people who have a sig file stating they make "X" in a weekend, who then come and cry broke... yeah, that to me is unethical...and it is for that reason, and that reason alone, I've taken my time to acquire the knowledge first.

          Sadly, having knowledge and not using it to better yourself and others... is also unethical, at least, if you were in my shoes.
          Signature
          Coming Soon... *Laser Targeted Lead Generation Services
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674440].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Iamthetwo
      Originally Posted by MValmont View Post

      Who told you to do that exactly? I would want some names....

      Oh, and I DO teach people how to make money online, and NO, this is not because I'm not making money with what i'm teaching (Kindle), it is because I want to make MORE money.

      I actually don't see the logic here.

      All the people that teach boxing don't know how to box?
      All the people that teach English don't know how to speak english?
      All the people teaching mathematics don't know how to do math?

      ??

      Again, the reason most people don't make money is because their mindset is so weak. Just look at how you think. You are your worst own enemy.

      You have not even convinced that this stuff work and this is why you come here and create this thread. You want evidences that it doesn't work to back up your limiting belief.

      The truth is this: Most people that teach how to make money online with a method DO KNOW what they are talking about. They decide to teach other people because first of all, helping other people is fun and also, the how to make money online market is huge so there is a lot of money to be made in that niche. Does that mean they don't know what they are talking about? No.
      I think you misunderstood me. You said you are teaching people how to make money on Kindle. AWESOME! That is ethical in my book. You are teaching people how to do something which brings actual value to them and the marketplace. What I don't agree with is similar to a ponzi-scheme. I explained it but I will again. If I sell a guide which claims to help people make money online and when they get the guide it says, to make money by selling people a guide to make money online, where the product is make money online by selling a make money online product. That's wrong. Selling a guide where they make money on Kindle, doing SEO, building an email list or whatever is not the same. There is value there and it's ethical.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10675655].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Olavski
    A marketer that runs a real business knows what he's doing: Providing Real and High Value Information and Products to customers.

    In the MMO niche it shouldn't be any different, however it is, in fact IMO 95% of the products are BS.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674417].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Regional Warrior
    So the OP woke up on a crusade to try and stop unethical persons selling BS , guess he does not live in the real world

    Next time you get a call form some person in India trying to get your details so they can help you maybe try talking to them

    Where there is a buck to be made there will always be a scammer

    Jason
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674423].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Iamthetwo
      Originally Posted by Regional Warrior View Post

      So the OP woke up on a crusade to try and stop unethical persons selling BS , guess he does not live in the real world

      Next time you get a call form some person in India trying to get your details so they can help you maybe try talking to them

      Where there is a buck to be made there will always be a scammer

      Jason
      No crusade, I just wondered if I was the only one who thought this way. Truth be told, I was hoping that somebody would prove me wrong because I was considering entering this business. What has happened from this thread is it's clear that it's a bone of contention among others too.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10675662].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author imkingcash
      What about sales books? You say, "Hey, I'm gonna teach you how to sell, but you have to buy this book that cost $10. It will teach you how to sell to people so they can also buy your products for $10". Make money offline is the same as make money online. It's not unethical if it works. It's only unethical if you tell people to use unethical tactics.
      Signature
      Like this posts? Learn more once you click the link below
      http://imkingcash.com/about-this-site
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10678723].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Do I find that particular practice unethical?

    Absolutely.

    Do I find it strange?

    Not at all.

    Variations of that scam have been circulating long before Al Gore invented the Interwebz.

    Pick up a copy of Popular Mechanics or Field & Stream from the early 1960s, and thumb back to the little three-line classifieds in the back. I can pretty much guarantee you that you'll find an ad for "how to make money placing cheap 3-line ads" or "how to make money stuffing envelopes."

    If you sent in your money, you got back a mimeographed sheet saying "place the following ad..."

    Originally Posted by art72 View Post

    We've all done it... or at least I have traded time for wages far beneath my time's value,
    Have to differ with this statement, Art. If you made an agreement to trade your time for wages, your hours at the time were worth exactly what you agreed to accept. You may have felt that you were worth more, especially in hindsight, but at the time your time was worth what you agreed to accept for it.

    Basic commerce - anything is only worth what a buyer will pay for it.

    And yes, we've all done it. We just need to face the fact that unless someone had a literal gun to our head, we entered the transaction of our own free will.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674443].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author art72
      Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

      Do I find that particular practice unethical?

      Absolutely.

      Do I find it strange?

      Not at all.

      Variations of that scam have been circulating long before Al Gore invented the Interwebz.

      Pick up a copy of Popular Mechanics or Field & Stream from the early 1960s, and thumb back to the little three-line classifieds in the back. I can pretty much guarantee you that you'll find an ad for "how to make money placing cheap 3-line ads" or "how to make money stuffing envelopes."

      If you sent in your money, you got back a mimeographed sheet saying "place the following ad..."



      Have to differ with this statement, Art. If you made an agreement to trade your time for wages, your hours at the time were worth exactly what you agreed to accept. You may have felt that you were worth more, especially in hindsight, but at the time your time was worth what you agreed to accept for it.

      Basic commerce - anything is only worth what a buyer will pay for it.

      And yes, we've all done it. We just need to face the fact that unless someone had a literal gun to our head, we entered the transaction of our own free will.
      Hey John,

      I may have never said it outright... man, I've learned a lot from you -Thank-You!

      You make a very valid point. Even still, I empathize for those who work hard their whole lives... only to struggle to meet the cost of living. *Yes, albeit, it's a personal choice, and I choose to do my duty and educate them to another option... if only to save one from such a fate.

      Art
      Signature
      Coming Soon... *Laser Targeted Lead Generation Services
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674457].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Iamthetwo
      Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

      Do I find that particular practice unethical?

      Absolutely.

      Do I find it strange?

      Not at all.

      Variations of that scam have been circulating long before Al Gore invented the Interwebz.

      Pick up a copy of Popular Mechanics or Field & Stream from the early 1960s, and thumb back to the little three-line classifieds in the back. I can pretty much guarantee you that you'll find an ad for "how to make money placing cheap 3-line ads" or "how to make money stuffing envelopes."

      If you sent in your money, you got back a mimeographed sheet saying "place the following ad..."



      Have to differ with this statement, Art. If you made an agreement to trade your time for wages, your hours at the time were worth exactly what you agreed to accept. You may have felt that you were worth more, especially in hindsight, but at the time your time was worth what you agreed to accept for it.

      Basic commerce - anything is only worth what a buyer will pay for it.

      And yes, we've all done it. We just need to face the fact that unless someone had a literal gun to our head, we entered the transaction of our own free will.
      Yes a much better version of what I am trying to say. You see a 3 line ad saying learn how to make money placing 3 line ads. When you get the guide it says, sell this same guide by placing same 3 line ad. I see variations of that all the time. Oh it is semi legitimized by building a flashy membership website with videos and PDF's but it's the same basic idea. When the course/guide is about making money in another niche, that's just fine. When it's a tool or service within the MMO niche that's just fine. When it's about selling MMO products, it moves into shades of grey from nearly white to almost black. The plain truth is that in the MMO biz, most are making money by selling the guides and often in the case of affiliates they don't even know or care if they work. All they care about is if it converts (for their benefit). But that's a whole other subject.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10675684].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Regional Warrior
    There was some idiot who put up a thread asking this "If I nave no exp in IM can I teach IM " and some of the answers were ludicrous

    But as they say it takes all kinds or people would not get scammed every day , paint the picture and they fall for dream but not the nightmare!

    Jason
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674464].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Regional Warrior View Post

      There was some idiot who put up a thread asking this "If I nave no exp in IM can I teach IM " and some of the answers were ludicrous

      But as they say it takes all kinds or people would not get scammed every day , paint the picture and they fall for dream but not the nightmare!

      Jason
      There are some people who I knew that were relatively new and were selling someone else's Coaching. They were just a medium between the Buyer and Seller. If they are transparent about this and their experience I can see where that would be acceptable.

      Of course what you are saying in this example is pretty damn bad


      - Robert Andrew
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10675354].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ChrisBa
    Originally Posted by Iamthetwo View Post

    I have a real issue with the fact that most products sold to teach you to make money online tell you to sell/promote products about making money online.

    Does this not seem strange to anyone else?

    The whole industry is feeding off a need to make money and then teaching them to sell information about how to make money.

    If this was done on the street it would look like this and you would probably get arrested; You walk up to a person on the street and you say, "Give me $10 and I will teach you how to get people to give you $10". They give you $10 and you tell them, "Go up to other people and tell them you will teach them how to get people to give you $10, if they give you $10". This goes on and on but nothing gets produced. Of course a veneer of legitimacy is added if you sell them a video on a CD on how to get people to give you $10. But it's no different.

    Your thoughts?
    If you are just teaching people to ask others for money, then yes, that's just not smart.

    If you are teaching people real ways to make money, then I don't see the problem with it?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674510].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author expadawan
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674692].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
    If you sell 2 cupcakes online you can immediately make an eBook on how you did it and probably make more than you did selling the cupcakes!

    That is just the nature of the beast.

    Was it ethical for the girl scout to sell her cookies at the medicinal marijuana dispensary or just smart marketing?

    -Art
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10674734].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dhiyar
    Thank you for sharing the information here. Its much informative and really i got some valid information. You had posted the amazing article.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10675127].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    My issue is when you buy a product saying "how to make $200 a day online. Then you tell them to sell a guide called "How to make $200 a day online" as a way to make $200 a day online.
    It's the current version of a "chain" letter. It's not new.
    Signature
    Get Off The Warrior Forum Now & Don't Come Back If You Want To Succeed!
    All The Real Marketers Are Gone. There's Nothing Left But Weak, Sniveling Wanna-Bees!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10675141].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author pawandave
      Banned
      It depend on situation, if you are marketing something bad then it is sure a crime. Otherwise, if something legitimate then no way bad at all.

      But your question is legit
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10675263].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Originally Posted by Profit Traveler View Post

    If you sell 2 cupcakes online you can immediately make an eBook on how you did it and probably make more than you did selling the cupcakes!

    That is just the nature of the beast.

    Was it ethical for the girl scout to sell her cookies at the medicinal marijuana dispensary or just smart marketing?

    -Art
    You mean like building a Dunkin Donuts across from the police station, or parking your food truck outside the Weight Watchers meeting?

    If that person sold two cupcakes in two minutes, the title of the ebook would likely be something like "how to sell 60 cupcakes per hour."

    Like the would-be Clickbank superstar teacher who sold one product by sheer luck, collected their $10 commission, and then claimed they made "$300 per day" by extending the math into fantasy land.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10675539].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
      Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

      You mean like building a Dunkin Donuts across from the police station, or parking your food truck outside the Weight Watchers meeting?

      If that person sold two cupcakes in two minutes, the title of the ebook would likely be something like "how to sell 60 cupcakes per hour."

      Like the would-be Clickbank superstar teacher who sold one product by sheer luck, collected their $10 commission, and then claimed they made "$300 per day" by extending the math into fantasy land.

      Ear to Ear grins are hard to come by these days....THANK YOU!
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10676438].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kayabalik
    a very informative post
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10675542].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author theimunderground
    It depends on what your personal views are and how far you go. 99% of internet marketers who sell MMO products are very unethical (and in some cases, criminal). Just make sure what you are selling works as advertised - period.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10675585].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
      Originally Posted by theimunderground View Post

      It depends on what your personal views are and how far you go. 99% of internet marketers who sell MMO products are very unethical (and in some cases, criminal). Just make sure what you are selling works as advertised - period.
      Of course, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You haven't bought 99% of all the products or dealt with 99% of the thousands of people selling MMO products so you really have no clue, right?

      Mark
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10676045].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
    Originally Posted by Iamthetwo View Post

    I have a real issue with the fact that most products sold to teach you to make money online tell you to sell/promote products about making money online.

    Does this not seem strange to anyone else?

    There is nothing inherently wrong with selling "how to make money products." Making money is an incredibly popular topic. And many such products are useful and legitimate.

    And not all "make money" products are about Internet marketing. For example, if you have a dog walking business and tell others how to do it, that's fine. It's legit.

    HOWEVER... I get your point.

    You're talking specifically about "Internet marketing" and "make money" products.

    So -- to answer your question -- yes, for a total beginner to IM to create a course on how to make money before they have ever made any money is odd.

    It's also completely unnecessary.

    Because there are many, many niches beyond "making money." In fact, I would advise any IM newbie to avoid THREE topics: Internet marketing, miracle cures, and supplements.

    In fact, the miracle cure and supplement niches are so problematic that I don't even write sales copy for them. I turn down people in those niches all the time.

    Why?

    Because the FTC and FDA don't like those products!

    So... if you're a beginner, stick with something you know well and are passionate about. Dip your toe in the murky waters of Internet marketing before diving in head first. There are TONS of other profitable niches to explore.

    John
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10675637].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author maxsi
    I sell the business strategies that I use everyday in my business group to make money....

    so you learn what it works because I use the same methods that I sell
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10675640].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
    I think what it comes down to is that there are legitimate products that teach you how to earn legitimate money online through freelance writing, graphic design, building Adsense sites, Amazon sites, email marketing, etc. Then there is a legitimate market for tools that help you make videos or help you curate content for your blog or help you find good keywords or create graphics, etc. These are the types of products I promote and have done very well with.

    I didn't know very much about MLMs at all and recently I decided to give one a shot to see what it was all about (it's a popular one, but I won't mention any names). I was absolutely appalled at the whole setup of this thing.

    The basic premise was that you were selling a membership to an "all in one marketing solution" that allowed you to build landing pages, collect emails, send emails, etc. First of all, the services that were offered was really sub-par, and yet they were marketing this site as "the only marketing system you'll ever need." They claimed you would no longer need web hosting, autoresponder, etc, because this site provided it all.

    Well, come to find out the services were rinky dink, and the only real way to make money was to recruit people into the same crappy service, and then hope they started recruiting people under them because they paid "7 or 8 levels deep," which basically means in MLM speak is that you got a cut of everything that your referrals brought in.

    As far as I'm concerned this should be outlawed, because all they are really selling you is the "opportunity" to resell their crappy product. The product is not really the money maker at all. The money maker is your ability to convince others to buy the crappy system and then start promoting it hard so you can skim off their hard work.

    I was pretty disgusted and cancelled after one month. The funny thing is, because I am an experienced marketer and know how to sell, I actually started making decent money within the first month.

    However, I quickly came to the conclusion that money means nothing if you have to compromise your morals to get it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10675840].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author blueonblue
      Originally Posted by nicheblogger75 View Post

      I think what it comes down to is that there are legitimate products that teach you how to earn legitimate money online through freelance writing, graphic design, building Adsense sites, Amazon sites, email marketing, etc. Then there is a legitimate market for tools that help you make videos or help you curate content for your blog or help you find good keywords or create graphics, etc. These are the types of products I promote and have done very well with.

      I didn't know very much about MLMs at all and recently I decided to give one a shot to see what it was all about (it's a popular one, but I won't mention any names). I was absolutely appalled at the whole setup of this thing.

      The basic premise was that you were selling a membership to an "all in one marketing solution" that allowed you to build landing pages, collect emails, send emails, etc. First of all, the services that were offered was really sub-par, and yet they were marketing this site as "the only marketing system you'll ever need." They claimed you would no longer need web hosting, autoresponder, etc, because this site provided it all.

      Well, come to find out the services were rinky dink, and the only real way to make money was to recruit people into the same crappy service, and then hope they started recruiting people under them because they paid "7 or 8 levels deep," which basically means in MLM speak is that you got a cut of everything that your referrals brought in.

      As far as I'm concerned this should be outlawed, because all they are really selling you is the "opportunity" to resell their crappy product. The product is not really the money maker at all. The money maker is your ability to convince others to buy the crappy system and then start promoting it hard so you can skim off their hard work.

      I was pretty disgusted and cancelled after one month. The funny thing is, because I am an experienced marketer and know how to sell, I actually started making decent money within the first month.

      However, I quickly came to the conclusion that money means nothing if you have to compromise your morals to get it.
      Yes, i was reading the website of someone else who was directing people to a website and he gave a dollar for posting / recruiting on facebook. Then to get the next dollar you go to a website he selected (affiliate commission and you sign up for the mid grade package. It is supposed to be monthly, but there is no indication as to how far in advance you are billed (probably a year).

      The further i read the more I found out that he pays you 1.00 for each person you bring in. You replicate his website, blog, and go with his affiliate programs, making him a ton of money and each time you get an affiliate and all you have done is go Twitter, Facebook, whatever to teach people what you are doing. No real value in that. To me that is like scamming people.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10676277].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Great1001
    Mehn, i laughed so hard on this one. Very interested topic. I must say. Here's the solution i propose. When someone walks up to you to ask for money to teach you how to make money?
    DO THIS > > > I will
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10675967].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ezjob
    I agree. I'm tired of rehashed unusable junk people are putting out. If you sell something the buyer should get some type of use out of it. If you offer something for money it should serve a useful purpose for the buyer.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10675989].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
    I am not in the MMO niche but there are two types of products...

    1. (fill in your own guess)% of MMO products are unethical scams or are simply worthless!

    2. (fill in your own guess)% of MMO products are laser targeted and teach you how to make money online in at least one specific area. They are created and marketed by experienced, ethical, and successful people.

    What makes the niche look so bad is that most newbies are enticed into creating and/or marketing product category #1 instead of #2. Why? Because the biggest part of the hype is how EASY and FAST it is to rake in LOTS of money. There is usually some secret loophole, etc...

    Like the OP it used to really bother me. Well, it still does but there is nothing I can do about it. Some people will have to learn the hard way when they part with their money.

    On the other hand... I know many people that are in the MMO niche that do it with integrity and professionalism. They have also helped many OTHER people start businesses and make good money in many OTHER niches. Some are good at helping people advance to the next level with their business through smart techniques and disciplined work.

    It would be a mistake to throw everyone in the MMO niche into the sleazy buck chasing marketers that don't care who they take advantage of scenario. There are some incredibly smart and talented online business people that are also good at teaching others how to succeed.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10676101].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Regional Warrior
    Sometimes I will go to the Warriors looking to hire you when I have some spare time, nice way to give back to some of the newbies starting out and have a product up for WSO

    So one warrior sent me the pm with the download link of his eBook and get to me blah blah
    what amazes me is that A no his e-book B got upset when I told him I new the author of the book , but he would have none of that threaten to get me booted from the forum because he was going to sell this book and make a lot of money

    Problem was the process in the book did not work anymore ( 6 yr ) but he said he will sell this to newbies and make a fortune

    Owner of the book went on WSO he made nothing , so make sure you own it before you flog it
    Jason
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10676134].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jasmine Carter
    I agree with your statements here and never looked at it that way at all but it is true. I am a victim of buying crap stuff trying to make money on the internet. Now that I am in the business and have a true mentor I realize that even though there are people who are selling shady crap that in the end the only person that is getting hurt in the long run is them because in this industry there are just too many people doing the exact same thing and eventually word does get out that their reputation is smeared. The truth always comes out and in the end they will not get the repeat customer and not build relationships so even though people like me, lost 10 bucks they wont get the next 20. Counteract that with the ethical sales builders who sell products that are of true value and you will see the true money makers and successful entrepreneurs. Justice always prevails and as long as you are honest in your dealings your conscience can always be cleaned and unharmed.
    Signature
    How to make $1000 commission and recurring income so that you can fire your boss!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10676286].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Regional Warrior
      Originally Posted by Jasmine Carter View Post

      I agree with your statements here and never looked at it that way at all but it is true. I am a victim of buying crap stuff trying to make money on the internet. Now that I am in the business and have a true mentor I realize that even though there are people who are selling shady crap that in the end the only person that is getting hurt in the long run is them because in this industry there are just too many people doing the exact same thing and eventually word does get out that their reputation is smeared. The truth always comes out and in the end they will not get the repeat customer and not build relationships so even though people like me, lost 10 bucks they wont get the next 20. Counteract that with the ethical sales builders who sell products that are of true value and you will see the true money makers and successful entrepreneurs. Justice always prevails and as long as you are honest in your dealings your conscience can always be cleaned and unharmed.
      Jasmine

      Not sure how long you have been looking at the forum but there have been cases of Warriors getting banned because of unethical and dishonest selling
      No to long ago the big rage was blind copy ( try to sell the product but in a shady way)

      There will always be unethical WSOs nature of the biz where there is money people will game it till they break it for everyone called Gaming

      Old saying on here if its to good to be true close wallet/purse

      Jason
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10676306].message }}
  • [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10676445].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TheGMa
      Originally Posted by pressreleaseagency View Post

      Most methods are not useful at all. The real one can not be cheap.
      Whoop! Whoop! BEG TO DIFFER.

      It's been nearly a year since I decided to come out of retirement and jump back into IM, and 4 months since everything started to come together. The last month has been eaten up by offline commitments, else I'd be up and running.

      During all the wallowing around time, looking for method and direction, I read a LOT of freebies and bought my fair share of inexpensive how-to products (these days, my money is spent on tools and services).

      It was from reading and reading and reading and thinking that my biz plan was born. This will be my 4th business, 2nd on the 'net, so I was never worried about making IM work; the challenge I faced is that I was (and still am for the most part) lost in all the new stuff like social media and WP and new advert methods. Sorry, I don't feel like learning any new tricks right now. That's what freelancers are for. AND NO, I DO NOT HAVE A LOT OF MONEY TO SPEND; I'm doing it all on a shoestring: less than $1,000 spread out over 12 months, and mostly without spending a dime.

      I can honestly say that not once have I run into hogwash. A lot of repeats - the same material written in a dozen different ways - but no hogwash. As a matter of fact, reading the same material written differently accomplishes 2 things: (1) If everyone is writing about it, the material must be extremely relevant; and (2) studying a method as seen from the perspective of 12 different marketers is the best way I know of get the old creative juices stomping and snorting to blast out of the starting gate.

      So other than the outright, in-your-face shabby professional scammers, I've not seen much at all in IM that is criminal, and as so many of you know, I'm considered an expert in recognizing fraud.

      What I DO see so often in the forum are a slew of people who don't know how to follow IM teachings and tweak what has been learned until the bottom line starts building. I see many, many who cry foul after only a few weeks because some idealized miracle didn't take place.

      I see a lot of flash-in-the-pan, I see those who don't want to or do not understand how to build a business (there's no diff between offline and online), who think that all you have to do is buy a method, read some of it, and expect the buying world to rush in.

      Steve, John, Daniel, Kay, Robert, how often do we repeat ourselves saying that IT TAKES A LOT OF DEDICATED WORK to build an online business? That means creative thinking and social participation, asking questions, interacting with the one who answers the questions, and RESEARCH, STUDY, APPLY, STUDY SOME MORE, TWEAK THE APPLICATION until IT works, and the IT had better be a method of selling that you're willing to stick with for 6 months, a year to get results. Just like the store down the street that opened up last month.

      - Annie
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10680247].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author efpeterson
    I know that in the credit card processing industry, we don't give merchant accounts for this type of thing. They're considered "get rich quick" schemes and are frowned upon big time. From a personal standpoint, I can see if someone who knows how to make money is teaching your about the right approaches, helpful tools/products, etc that's one thing. The ponzi scheme, no value added, $10 PDF is a different story.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10677140].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author usdgadget
    But what is ethical in this world? Is it ethical to sell fat loss pills that kill people? Is ethical to work at a bank that take someone house? or to be a lawyer?...
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10677534].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steve B
      Originally Posted by usdgadget View Post

      But what is ethical in this world?
      Your mother and father taught you the difference between right and wrong. It should have been reinforced in your schooling and religious training (if you were inclined).


      Originally Posted by usdgadget View Post

      Is it ethical to sell fat loss pills that kill people?
      No, definitely not.


      Originally Posted by usdgadget View Post

      Is ethical to work at a bank that take someone house?
      Yes, if the mortgage holder breaks his contract with the bank, the consequences must be enforced to protect the bank and it's shareholders.


      Originally Posted by usdgadget View Post

      or to be a lawyer?
      Yes, lawyers that are ethical, honest, and trusted are worthy of their income.


      See, that wasn't difficult at all.

      Steve
      Signature

      Steve Browne, online business strategies, tips, guidance, and resources
      SteveBrowneDirect

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10677547].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author ezjob
        [DELETED]
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10677560].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Originally Posted by ezjob View Post

          You got it wrong Steve. Lawyers are what's wrong with this country. Most all politicians in government are lawyers. Look at the mess they've made. When the deck is stacked against the working people, it's wrong.

          How?

          Those of us who still have a job and work over-time trying to get ahead. See how much you are appreciated by the gov. when you get your check. They take massive amounts of money from the people who work their ends off.

          You know what that does to hard workers. It makes them want to work less because there's no incentive to work long hours.

          Look at the healthcare mess. I used to have very good health insurance. Now with the new ACA (healthcare law) in effect my insurance sky rocketed.

          Everything is going up and pay is coming down or eliminated. Look at all the jobs going out of the country. People are losing jobs everywhere.

          The lawyers in congress passed NAFTA.

          Still think lawyers are honest and trustworthy?

          I don't.

          Because they created the mess we are in and it's getting worse.
          You're taking a "brush" and painting a broad picture.

          Of course some lawyers are unethical. But like anything in life there are also some damn good ones who go into this area because they truly wanted to make a difference for the good


          - Robert Andrew
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10678653].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author CurtisSWN
    Make money by telling others how to make money, ie there is no "end user" as I've read it described, nevertheless takes real skill to do. Real skills which can be much more ethically directed. We've all learned the hard way about scammers, but some dont and they just cant be helped, they have layers and layers of psychological deceit involved basically. Focus on building a real business, mmo or not. These are basic skills we all need.
    Signature
    Simple Two Step Formula
    Earns Me Over $146.72 in 12 Hours. This is Weird, But it Works!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10677939].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ChesterDan
    I think it's alright as long as there is equal value of goods being exchanged. Most products have gems of information in them which you will be in your mind for a long long time. Besides, the whole marketing industry offline does the same thing with marketing degrees in university. I have managed to replace my day job FT income through many of the IM courses, and for that I am thankful. They teach you how to leverage your time to enable to you to spend more time with your loved ones.
    Signature

    Believe. Act. Repeat. Succeed. Reward. Repeat. Get Richer in Friends Life Money Time

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10678609].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jon Watwood
    Yes you are right there is a vast amount of get rich quick silver bullet type schemes which are definitely unethical and sometimes just a basic scam, which is a shame for people with genuine services and products who want to market online
    Signature

    Warm Regards
    Jon Watwood
    Jonwatwood.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10678618].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Leonhart
    Banned
    Selling make money online, when you're NOT making money online is unethical.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10678661].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Leonhart View Post

      Selling make money online, when you're NOT making money online is unethical.
      I know what you are saying and agree for the most part

      BUT

      if a person who is starting out and decides to start a "journey Blog" about their experience in beginning in IM .. well I don't think it is unethical if they act as a medium to bring a Buyer and Seller together for a MMO product and take a fee/commission for this ( as long as they are transparent about their 'newbieness' and making no money)

      Of course, I personally think you need to start out in a Non- MMO niche and get some experience and Success so you can teach based on this experience and not Theory


      - Robert Andrew
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10678707].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Olavski
    You're not selling a make money online product, you're selling people a strategy or a skill they can implement to make money online. Every affiliate that is serious about their business buys the product they (want to) promote. If they smell it's a scam or it's just another rewritten PLR product, then they know they are not going to promote the product.

    (Every affiliate that can't afford to buy the product, just ask for a review copy)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10678736].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author [RyanMilligan]
    Banned
    No, it's not. Not if you are actually teaching people how to benefit their business in a realistic way.

    Any time I see a product with the heading "Watch EXACTLY how I make $6746/day with X marketing stream and then copy me and YOU will make exactly $6746/day doing the exact same thing as me for $7!$!$!"

    I might of exaggerated but if you find a income stream where you make that kind of money day in and out then you are not going to tell people about it. Never mind sell a course that probably wouldn't even net you what you'd make in a week with the method and have every buyer saturate and ruin your income stream (or one of them).

    I shake my head at those kind of products. Teach people long term skills that will make their business an actual business and not a one trick pony.

    Copywriting. Email marketing. List building. SEO. Social media marketing. Anything that is essential in making a long lasting income stream the right way in online marketing.

    Like.. building a email list of buyers from a product launch and engaging with them and actually helping them produce the results they are looking to make. If you help them for free when you actually promote something to them that they have to buy they will jump at the chance.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10678759].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author 3wCorner
    It's totally dependent of the type of affiliate company your connected with. There are companies that offered service like photos, web hosting, shopping etc. While others have food and dining, vacation places and so on.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10679146].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Robert999
    The example you gave fits on MLM industry and I am against that practice.

    But you can sell the books/tools/software that can help others to make money online.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10679862].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kazimuhith
    It depends on the process followed. For example, if someone is writing a freelancing article on the effective ways to make money with kindle publishing , that isn't unethical. But if someone is faking and telling lies to lure customers in thus ripping them off , then it is indeed unethical.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10679870].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author johnbs
    I feel like you would really need to be passionate about the products that you promote. I agree with your thought though, it is definitely something to think about.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10680352].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author RS3RS
    In theory, there's nothing unethical about teaching someone how to make money online.

    The way it's done 99 out of 100 times? Absolutely, completely, repulsively unethical.

    In fact, it gives a very bad name to those of us who try to publish quality tutorials. We have to be very careful what we call ourselves. Even "Digital Marketing Education" can give the same impression as "fake MMO guru" these days.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10680353].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TheGMa
      Originally Posted by RS3RS View Post

      In theory, there's nothing unethical about teaching someone how to make money online.

      The way it's done 99 out of 100 times? Absolutely, completely, repulsively unethical.

      In fact, it gives a very bad name to those of us who try to publish quality tutorials. We have to be very careful what we call ourselves. Even "Digital Marketing Education" can give the same impression as "fake MMO guru" these days.
      That's been repeated over and over in this thread. WHO? I hate generalities. People are afraid to name names or give specific instances because of the risk of either being accused of libel or of being politically incorrect.

      Here is an ad promoting a 5-1/2 hour course that teaches you how to be a coach, even if you don't know anything:: https://www.udemy.com/top-marketing-coach/.

      I sort of got lost in a portion of the copy because there is a confusion about whether we're discussing coaching, freelance services, or consulting. But for the money, and providing I have nothing else to do between 3:45 and a quarter to 4, I might learn something; I might come away with an idea that will bring in a few hundred bucks.

      In my opinion, the claims are over the top and of course, no one can become an expert in in any field in 5-1/2 hours. I certainly wouldn't want to hire anyone who has gone this route.

      But to determine if the lessons are purposefully deceitful, I'd have to buy and review the course myself. For all I know, he does teach the ins and outs of the coaching and consulting side of any business, and it's up to the student to acquire the niche expertise.

      On the flip side, I know a young American living in Thailand who started teaching right out of the blog box , making it clear that you learn as he learns. He's doing very well indeed, and there are those who swear by him. He doesn't pass anything on until he's bumped his nose a couple of times. The only difference between him and his followers is that he knows a bit more than they do, and he is paid to take the hard knocks then pass along what works.

      - Annie
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10680500].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
    There have been a lot of good points made in this thread, but from looking around at all the MMO products on the three biggest affiliate networks, I have come to the conclusion that no matter what any of us may think about the niche, it's absolutely huge and getting bigger every day. It's made thousands of IMers rich, and it's not going anywhere anytime soon. Payment processors and merchant account providers can also say in public they hate it, but behind closed doors they're sitting at their conference tables with huge smiles on their faces and counting their millions that they make from it. That's just the way of the world. Like it or not, money talks.

    All we can do as marketers is produce quality products, and as consumers we must do our research before purchasing. I'm not a fan of the MLM business model at all, but I know it's not going anywhere because it's making lots of people lots of money.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10680573].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ContentPro22
    Over the past year or so, I've come to the same realization.

    Making money online by teaching others how to make money online is sort of like a pyramid scheme.

    The more experienced marketers teach the less experienced marketers how to make money online (even if the more experienced marketer isn't REALLY making money). All he/she has to do is make it SEEM like he/she is making money to sell their course.

    The cycle then repeats itself as now they (the new marketers) become the new teachers in a few years' time (or less)- rehashing the same stuff.

    Why is this bad?

    Let's be honest: 99.99% of internet marketers are trying to make a quick buck. They DON'T care about people. To them, people are just email subscribers or traffic numbers.

    So once they become successful selling garbage, they can now make a killing teaching others how to sell the same garbage.

    This might be great for the marketer (at least for the short term), but it's HORRIBLE for consumers.

    Just my 2 cents...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10680574].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
      Teaching is teaching. Just like at a University...is that a Pyramid scheme?

      Little bit too much generalizing maybe.

      For example...

      A fellow warrior recently saw a hot niche in "Adult Coloring Book"s and decided to create a Paid Resource so others could learn from it and also take advantage of the popularity in this new hot niche.

      There is no dark side to that.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10680651].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author daalmans
    Originally Posted by Iamthetwo View Post

    I have a real issue with the fact that most products sold to teach you to make money online tell you to sell/promote products about making money online.

    Does this not seem strange to anyone else?

    The whole industry is feeding off a need to make money and then teaching them to sell information about how to make money.

    If this was done on the street it would look like this and you would probably get arrested; You walk up to a person on the street and you say, "Give me $10 and I will teach you how to get people to give you $10". They give you $10 and you tell them, "Go up to other people and tell them you will teach them how to get people to give you $10, if they give you $10". This goes on and on but nothing gets produced. Of course a veneer of legitimacy is added if you sell them a video on a CD on how to get people to give you $10. But it's no different.

    Your thoughts?
    Selling offline or online underlies the same principle; getting value (product) for value (money). In IM it is very often difficult to find out that you got value for your money. You have to ask the vendor for the proof and if there is no proof then I recommend you NOT to buy. Of course you can also put in your own time and do the test. However, don't forget that you cannot buy time.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10681335].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author odesniper
    Yeah, there is a lot of red flags with money making opps. Some people claim that some of them are legit but I have never seen one survive the test of time.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10681591].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author research
    Originally Posted by Iamthetwo View Post

    I have a real issue with the fact that most products sold to teach you to make money online tell you to sell/promote products about making money online.

    Does this not seem strange to anyone else?

    The whole industry is feeding off a need to make money and then teaching them to sell information about how to make money.

    If this was done on the street it would look like this and you would probably get arrested; You walk up to a person on the street and you say, "Give me $10 and I will teach you how to get people to give you $10". They give you $10 and you tell them, "Go up to other people and tell them you will teach them how to get people to give you $10, if they give you $10". This goes on and on but nothing gets produced. Of course a veneer of legitimacy is added if you sell them a video on a CD on how to get people to give you $10. But it's no different.

    Your thoughts?

    Say what you will . . . It seems this is the way things are done today on the Internet.

    I don't know where ethics comes into it ???

    Many extra income and money making opportunities exist on the Internet where folks can earn a little or a lot of extra income by doing the very thing that seems to upset you.

    Perhaps you could tell me how those interested in extra income would learn about such opportunities if there was no marketplace to offer such information.

    I don't know if you have upset the apple cart with your profound question but I believe it is a curious way of looking at the way things are done . . .
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10681889].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ANDREIS
    Originally Posted by Iamthetwo View Post

    I have a real issue with the fact that most products sold to teach you to make money online tell you to sell/promote products about making money online.
    90% of products which claim to be showing you how to make money are not true. There are so many lies and that's why I've never sold any money making product. Instead I'm teaching people through direct human-to-human communication. Don't ever believe for a second that you can buy an ebook and become rich. Instead you should believe in the process of learning and getting skills which will allow you to do online what you want and ultimately make lots of money!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10681896].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author devdojo
    Haha, too funny! You are so right. That's why people need to create something. Find something that you need and others will probably have a need for it too, then go out and sell it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10682670].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author ezjob
      Originally Posted by devdojo View Post

      Haha, too funny! You are so right. That's why people need to create something. Find something that you need and others will probably have a need for it too, then go out and sell it.
      Very true! You should sell something that will help solve a problem. Something that actually works.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10682711].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Regional Warrior
    Guys and Gals

    When you reply how about you hit the quote tab then we know who you are replying to
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10683049].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author The Wanderer
    I agree. I spent about ten years studying various areas of internet marketing, buying a lot of products and attending a few high-priced courses, etc. I tried out a few things, but it seemed like the vast majority of what I learned either didn't pass the smell test or involved far more work- and more boring work at that- than any regular free-lance work I could get. Still, most of the marketers are extremely good at luring you into 'the dream' and it took a long while for me to really wake up and stop buying things that I didn't either a) need or b) want simply because the author of it was good at painting pretty word pictures or pulling psychological tricks like creating a sense of false scarcity or using price anchoring.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10684207].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author The Wanderer
    Oops! That posted before I was finished. I was going to add that nevertheless I don't think my time was wasted. Now that I've stopped chasing the 'make money in your sleep doing nothing worthwhile' dream and gotten back to my own non-generic dreams of writing fiction I find there are a number of things that are useful for marketing my work- both in terms of what to do and what not to do.

    My experience is there are no real mistakes except ignoring your own desires and trying to do what all the 'experts' tell you to do. And even that is not a mistake - as long as it teaches you not to repeat it!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10684212].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
      Selling legit MMO isn't unethical.

      It's only unethical when there's no other action in the advice but to sell the same advice.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10684277].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
      You are drawn to Make Money Online sales pages for a reason.

      You have a want/need that you want fulfilled. Will that happen? Totally possible. Can you get scammed?

      I once bought some oatmeal cookies and there was one missing. I still buy them.

      Seriously anyone just jumping into learning how to make money online has so much free information readily available that aspect alone may possibly prevent them from making any progress.

      With that in mind, if you can find focused quality premium information I think it should and may be worth the investment.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10690507].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author taurbull
    I agree that there are so many scams and so much rehashed BS around today when to comes to How to make money online

    But what I would add is that there are always genuine opportunities around too in-between all of the nonsense others are selling.

    I have personally had a great deal of success from some of my Internet Marketing ventures, however, it wasn't like this when I first started out and I made few mistakes along the way which cost me in both time and money.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10684364].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JuliaStein
    even though there are people who are selling shady crap that in the end the only person that is getting hurt in the long run is them because in this industry there are just too many people doing the exact same thing and eventually word does get out that their reputation is smeared
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10684792].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JWC
    Yes I totally get where you are coming from as I am in this "money-go-round loop" myself at the moment but there are some people in the group I am involved with making some serious 4 figure commissions right now. Cards on the table time though, I am not one of them. At present I have made a couple of small commissions but I have not fully committed myself to the training recently. I would say in the defense of the I.M. niche is that there would be no sales made if there was not a hungry willing customer base and when people type in "how do I make money on-line" there are people queuing up to take their money and show them how to do it. You pay your money and take your choice. With the right mentor and enough time and effort serious money can be made though.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10688724].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author chilledoutfela
    Absolutely! These days I am hearing a lot about "Project Breakthrough" Jason Mclain and Vick S...they claim by 14 days training you would be able to generate a lot of income and when I checked about the price ..summing up total spent $1000 or more. What`s other take on this? Is it Legit?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10690490].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Dr3a
    Funny Cause I've even seen people out there trying to sell "How to make money online" and the people selling it have no idea how to make money themselves. Good Read! I chuckled a little cause it's true.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10724312].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Sitestomp
    I honestly can't believe people spend money on that garbage. Do people seriously believe they are going to read some guide and then start making millions?

    But, then again, most people are gullible and want to buy into the dream. That's why selling those "Get rich quick" scams works.

    The real way to earn money is through hard work, truly learning from failures, and never giving up.
    Signature
    ** Professional, Quality, and Experienced Conversion Website Designer **
    I can handle all your web design needs | Skype: Sitestomp


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10724530].message }}

Trending Topics