Do you like that sales page? IT DOESN'T FRIKKIN MATTER IF YOU DON'T!

15 years ago

I'm sorry but there is no set formula for a sales page. Different sales pages will do different coversions depending upon what it is you are trying to do to begin with. I know many that will run as soon as they see a site that looks like a "marketers" site.

There is a big different between being sold "at" and being sold "to" some like to be sold "at" while others do not. The only way to find this out for "YOURSELF" is by testing. Sometimes talking about that helps others tweak their pages, thus why some people post about them.

I see no reason why you say it does not matter because it does matter but again that is based per opinion and not fact. You say the onyl thing that matters is that it coverts, well I disagree it must be informative and appealing both to "YOUR" target market. It does not have to be so perfect that it coverts 95% of the visitors, but this is what it seems like to me you was saying when you typed in all caps.

Realize that many people may not buy the first time and thus why it does matter if it is informative and appealing. I know you did not say anything about informative and appealing but again like I said from your all caps post I got "ALL THAT MATTERS IS THAT IT MAKES MONEY AND SCREW EVERYTHING ELSE" .. That may not be the way you meant to say it but that is how I seen it...

James

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1125498].message }}

John Atkins

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Realize that many people may not buy the first time and thus why it does matter if it is informative and appealing. I know you did not say anything about informative and appealing but again like I said from your all caps post I got "ALL THAT MATTERS IS THAT IT MAKES MONEY AND SCREW EVERYTHING ELSE" .. That may not be the way you meant to say it but that is how I seen it...

James

Yes, all that matters is that it converts (which means that
it makes money).

Do you disagree? And if you do disagree... why?

If a salespage is not converting, then it's useless,
regardless of how nice, long or short it is...

No one wants a salespage with bad conversion rates...

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1125538].message }}

TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by IM Headlines

Yes, all that matters is that it converts (which means that
it makes money).

Do you disagree? And if you do disagree... why?

If a salespage is not converting, then it's useless,
regardless of how nice, long or short it is...

No one wants a salespage with bad conversion rates...

Because your business should not be all about only money ... This is why I disagree.. I am no copywriter or anything but I have written some very nice sales copy that worked for "ME" .. So this is only my opinion.

The point is when running a business you should not have the mindset that all you want is money, all you need is money, I am here only for money, I do not care about you as a customer I just care that you have money... Do you see how this is starting to sound ???

Yes the feelings of your visitors and customers matter a great deal because that is your bread and butter. This is why it is not all about money, your visitor/customer should feel safe, secure, welcome, apart of the family, and etc... If this means going out of your way to help them so be it, even if you must do it for free.

Again though this is based on my opinion and not some statistical facts or something ...

James

[ 1 ] Thanks
3 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1125551].message }}

John Atkins

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

The point is when running a business you should not have the mindset that all you want is money, all you need is money, I am here only for money, I do not care about you as a customer I just care that you have money... Do you see how this is starting to sound ???

Excuse me but can you tell me where I stated that
this is all about money?

What does that paragraph above has to do anything
with a salespage... :confused:

My point is...

A salespage is useless if it doesn't convert
regardless of how good or bad you think it is.

Hope you understand now.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1125576].message }}

John Atkins

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Jutras

James, I totally agree...but a sales letter is nothing more than a tool used to make sales. Period. Customer service is of course critical...but it's a seperate element of your business. At least it should be.

Because if the focus of your sales letter is to make the prospect "feel good" as opposed to "feeling like they gotta whip out their wallet", conversions obviously suffer.

Force your customers to buy first...then coddle them afterwards.

Great discussion, though.

Exactly.

The salespage serves only for one purpose... to generate
sales.

Customer care comes afterwards. It comes after an individual
buys from your salespage and becomes a customer of yours.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127208].message }}

TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Jutras

James, I totally agree...but a sales letter is nothing more than a tool used to make sales. Period. Customer service is of course critical...but it's a seperate element of your business. At least it should be.

Because if the focus of your sales letter is to make the prospect "feel good" as opposed to "feeling like they gotta whip out their wallet", conversions obviously suffer.

Force your customers to buy first...then coddle them afterwards.

Great discussion, though.

So what you are really saying is this:

I do not care about you at all unless you take out that wallet and spend money on my site. After which I will be your friend all day long and as long as you keep buying I will stay your friend.

I disagree with this and I refuse to run my business with that attitude..

But that is me...

James

Thanks
3 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127248].message }}

Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

So what you are really saying is this:

I do not care about you at all unless you take out that wallet and spend money on my site. After which I will be your friend all day long and as long as you keep buying I will stay your friend.

I disagree with this and I refuse to run my business with that attitude..

But that is me...

James

James, you have distorted this so out of proportion I don't even know
where to begin.

What is the purpose of your sales page? That's the first question you
have to ask.

If it's to make the prospect feel all warm and fuzzy and say things like,
"Oh what a great guy" then you don't need a sales page for that. I can
think of many platforms that will work much better such as a blog. Post
tons of content. Put up a story of your life. Let the prospect get to
know you. Don't need no sales page to do that. Send the prospect THERE
first.

But...if your sales page is created to hopefully make a sale (otherwise
why have one???) then the only thing that matters is that the sales
page does its job. If it doesn't convert, what good is it? It is NO good. It
is worthless.

Your sales page has a job to do just like your blog has a job to do, just
like your newsletter has a job to do, just like your articles have a job to do
and so on.

You're trying to inject a variable into the sales process that, in the long
run, doesn't matter.

Plus, if the sales page DOES convert, doesn't that invariably mean that
you HAVE reached the prospect on some level?

I mean how many people are going to read your sales page, think to
themselves "What a mean rotten SOB who just wants my money" and
buy the product?

Sorry but I just don't agree with your opinion, though I will defend your
right to have it.

Thanks

Signature

My Soundcloud Music Channel

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127283].message }}

Black Hat Cat

Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

So what you are really saying is this:

I do not care about you at all unless you take out that wallet and spend money on my site. After which I will be your friend all day long and as long as you keep buying I will stay your friend.

I disagree with this and I refuse to run my business with that attitude..

But that is me...

James

Please....can we have some straw with that whine? You're in business to make money, no matter how much you try to hide behind your "I really care about you and want to be your friend" angle. Otherwise, you'd give your products away for free.

No matter how much fluff you want to build around it, it still is about making money. Taking care of customers/potential customers may be a part of the process, but it's a part you're doing for one primary reason....to make money. Otherwise you'd be in the charity business.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127448].message }}

TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat

Please....can we have some straw with that whine? You're in business to make money, no matter how much you try to hide behind your "I really care about you and want to be your friend" angle. Otherwise, you'd give your products away for free.

No matter how much fluff you want to build around it, it still is about making money. Taking care of customers/potential customers may be a part of the process, but it's a part you're doing for one primary reason....to make money. Otherwise you'd be in the charity business.

I am not hiding behind nothing ... I do not hype or lie... I am not in business because it is "ALL" about money. Sorry but not everyone sees $$$$ everyplace they go.

As for giving away my products I have given away $100,000 worth of products in all my years and never asked for anything in return, not even a email address.

My point is some seem to think it is "ALL ABOUT MONEY" and I disagree, this is my right to disagree and I will stick by what I said...

James

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127518].message }}

Julian Lockhart

15 years ago

The notion of a sales page has one goal - conversion, is valid.

But I have a problem with the way it is communicated by some here. Saying, THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS ITS CONVERSION RATE!, customer service comes later, or you can be their friend after you make the sale, is bad advice for the new marketer (which this post is clearly directed to). They read that and make up all kinds of s**t.

They make up crap like it's ok to:
write a bunch of fake testimonials, ok to lie about results, make fake mommy diet blogs, fake news blogs, etc. While this stuff does convert it does not make a long term business.

@IM Headlines
Why not write a thread on killer sales pages (I am sure someone has done it already) instead of very thinly veiled rant about:

What is it with all these threads lately?

I'm talking about those kind of threads that were
created for the sole purpose to talk about how you like,
or how you don't like a particular salespage...

[ 1 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Sarasota Web Design

Biz Launch Box - Marketing Consultant

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127610].message }}

TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Julian Lockhart

The notion of a sales page has one goal - conversion, is valid.

But I have a problem with the way it is communicated by some here. Saying, THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS ITS CONVERSION RATE!, customer service comes later, or you can be their friend after you make the sale, is bad advice for the new marketer (which this post is clearly directed to). They read that and make up all kinds of s**t.

They make up crap like it's ok to:
write a bunch of fake testimonials, ok to lie about results, make fake mommy diet blogs, fake news blogs, etc. While this stuff does convert it does not make a long term business.

@IM Headlines
Why not write a thread on killer sales pages (I am sure someone has done it already) instead of very thinly veiled rant about:

Once again .. Nailed It!!!

James

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127636].message }}

John Atkins

15 years ago

Hi Julian,

I can't completely understand what you're trying to say here,
but I'll try to answer anyway...

Originally Posted by Julian Lockhart

But I have a problem with the way it is communicated by some here. Saying, THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS ITS CONVERSION RATE!, customer service comes later, or you can be their friend after you make the sale, is bad advice for the new marketer (which this post is clearly directed to). They read that and make up all kinds of s**t.

Isn't it obvious that customer service for an
individual comes after he/she purchases from you?

Customer service is a service for your customers that was
created for the sole purpose to help them out with their problems.

Take a look at its name:

C-u-s-t-o-m-e-r S-e-r-v-i-c-e

A service for your customers. (An individual becomes
your customer when he/she buys something from you)

So it's safe to say that customer service does come
after the process of buying (It's pretty frikkin obvious!!)

Originally Posted by Julian Lockhart

@IM Headlines
Why not write a thread on killer sales pages (I am sure someone has done it already) instead of very thinly veiled rant about:

1. Because I'm not a professional copywriter.
2. This is NOT a rant...

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127667].message }}

TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by IM Headlines

Hi Julian,

Isn't it abvious that customer service for an
individual comes after he/she purchases from you?

Wrong! I could not tell you how many times I talked to clients/customers BEFORE they purchased from me...

Want some examples ? Right here on this very forum ?

There are many that ask this question and that question BEFORE they buy, guess what that is customer service. Yep, they have not bought anything from me but I take time out to give them my attention.

Why do you think some have customer support live chat on their websites - Because the customer or possible customer wants to feel safe and secure and welcome... You do that by providing them the help they desire which your sales copy could not do ...

You and many others just do not get it "YOU AND OTHERS HAVE STATED IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY" This is a false, misleading statement...

This is what I have tried to tell you and Julian has attempted to tell you ...

I am not a copywriter either but I was in freaking management (customer service) for 12 years before I was online full time..

James

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127689].message }}

John Atkins

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Wrong! I could not tell you how many times I talked to clients/customers BEFORE they purchased from me...

Want some examples ? Right here on this very forum ?

There are many that ask this question and that question BEFORE they buy, guess what that is customer service. Yep, they have not bought anything from me but I take time out to give them my attention.

THAT IS NOT CUSTOMER SERVICE!

Customer service is a service for your customers. People
who still haven't bought your products are not your customers.

Sure I answer their questions as well, whenever they ask me
about my product before they buy but that is NOT called
customer service.

Customer service is when a customer (someone who has bought
my product) tells me about his/her problem &
I'll help him/her out... That's Customer Service

Anyway Customer service hasn't got to do anything
with salespages.

We should stop this here until the thread loses it's point.

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

You and many others just do not get it "YOU AND OTHERS HAVE STATED IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY" This is a false, misleading statement...

One thing that I hate a lot is "making false statements"...

I have NEVER stated that it's all about the money!

So pls, stop these false misleading satements.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127740].message }}

Julian Lockhart

15 years ago

Originally Posted by IM Headlines

One thing that I hate a lot is "making false statements"...

I have NEVER stated that it's all about the money!

So pls, stop these false misleading satements.

You did say:

Yes, all that matters is that it converts (which means that
it makes money).

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Sarasota Web Design

Biz Launch Box - Marketing Consultant

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127786].message }}

John Atkins

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Julian Lockhart

You did say:

Yes, all that matters is that it converts (which means that
it makes money).

Yes but I was talking about the salespage. (And BTW let me ask you this,
what does matter more than its conversion rate in your opinion?)

Our friend james here seems to be talking about IM in
general...

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

"YOU AND OTHERS HAVE STATED IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY"

__________________________________________________ ____________

And...

Come onnnnn... Both of you, what are you trying to suggest?
That a salespage should NOT have a good conversion rate
because it's bad to make money?

If so, why bother with a salespage. And why bother
getting into IM in the first place?

I really don't get it.

Who in the world wants a non-converting salespage!?

NOBODY!

Not even you guys!

So why do you keep complaining on what I'm saying?

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127823].message }}

Julian Lockhart

15 years ago

OK fine.

BUT if you would slow down for a second, you might realize what I am saying is that when you make blanket statements people use that and do silly stuff.

That my point. OK?

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Sarasota Web Design

Biz Launch Box - Marketing Consultant

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127841].message }}

John Atkins

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Julian Lockhart

OK fine.

BUT if you would slow down for a second, you might realize what I am saying is that when you make blanket statements people use that and do silly stuff.

That my point. OK?

Where did I make blanket statements? Nowhere... at least,
not on this thread.

And about those people that use other peoples' comments
such as mine to do silly stuff...

I created this thread to help people. Now if they want
to take it any other way... it's their call.

It's still hard for me to believe that the obvious
is so difficult to understand for some people though...

I mean, you don't have to be the smartest guy in the world
to figure out that:

The only thing that matters in a salespage is its conversion
rate... Without a good conversion rate, the salespage is useless,
no matter how good or bad you think it looks...

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127887].message }}

Julian Lockhart

15 years ago

Originally Posted by IM Headlines

Hi Julian,
....
Take a look at its name:

C-u-s-t-o-m-e-r S-e-r-v-i-c-e

A service for your customers. (An individual becomes
your customer when he/she buys something from you)

So it's safe to say that customer service does come
after the process of buying (It's pretty frikkin obvious!!)

This is EXACTLY what I am talking about.
You have know defined customer service from a VERY one sided point of view.

Ans why are you focusing on just "customer service"? That wasn't my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian Lockhart

@IM Headlines
Why not write a thread on killer sales pages (I am sure someone has done it already) instead of very thinly veiled rant about:

1. Because I'm not a professional copywriter.
2. This is NOT a rant...

Just write good headlines huh?

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Sarasota Web Design

Biz Launch Box - Marketing Consultant

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127771].message }}

Steven Wagenheim 15 years ago

This is a classic example of people reading more into an OP than what's
there.

Nowhere in the original post did it say.

treat your customers like scum.
money is all that matters.
customer service isn't important.

And blah, blah, blah.

How about reading what the OP said and confine your arguments to
just that?

Two things, and two things ONLY were stated.

1. It doesn't matter what you think of a sales page.
2. The sales pages main objective is to convert.

If you can't see that, then I don't know what else I can say that would
make any difference to this discussion.

I mean how hard is this?
- Thanks
Signature

My Soundcloud Music Channel
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127792].message }}

TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Jutras

That's not what I said at all.

I simply said that a sales page is supposed to sell.

Somehow, in your mind...this transforms me into a stove-hat wearing villian...twirling my circus mustache as I tie an old woman to railroad tracks, while the train fast approaches.

Look, nothing is wrong with giving freebies...helping people out...and giving good customer service.

But ultimately, that's the purpose of your product or service. Not your sales letter.

Gotta get ready for Halloween and stick some razor blades in apples...have a good one.

That may not be what you said but that is what you implied by the way you said what you said and that is exactly how many would read it, including newbies on this forum...

James

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1128734].message }}

TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Jutras

It's actually not what I implied at all, I'm thinking that you have some internal biases going on that are coloring your perception.

Now, before you get mad...understand that I'm not attacking you...I've always enjoyed your posts and I know for a fact you're a good guy.

I'm only saying this to help you out. Because you do have some self limiting beliefs going on...and those things will only serve to hold you back.

I highly suggest reading Law Of Success by Napoleon Hill, and perhaps Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. This will help to undo the damage done by our public school system.

Bowing out, have a good night.

He He - I don't get Mad Matt ... We all have our opinions. All I was saying is that the way it was said does imply to some that it is all about "give me your money".

Now because of that some newbies would run in and read this and say well it is good for me to lie, cheat, steal, or do whatever I need to do as long as I get that money out of my visitor.

I am not saying it is right and I am not saying it is wrong, to each his own. All I am saying is many people do misunderstand what someone else might be trying to say and when they do that they take it as they see it and try to go impliment it as the way they read it.

James

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1128765].message }}

Lawrh 15 years ago

You seem to think people will purchase the first time they hit your sales page, big mistake. Myself, James and countless others always give our purchases some thought and return to the sales page two, three, four times or more. POS sales pages do not get the return visits and so lose all of our sales. Good design lures people back for a second or third look. Conversions matter, just don't expect them instantly.
- Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature

â€œStrategy without action is a day-dream; action without strategy is a nightmare.â€ â€“ Old Japanese proverb -
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1125582].message }}
- John Atkins 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Lawrh
  
  You seem to think people will purchase the first time they hit your sales page, big mistake.
  
  Can you show me EXACTLY where I showed some signs that
  I think that people will purchase the first time they hit my salespage?!?!
  
  Pls read my post carefully before posting...
  
  Let me tell you again what I said in short:
  
  A salespage is useless if it doesn't convert
  regardless of how good or bad you think it is.
  
  I have NEVER stated how a salespage should be in this thread...
  
  Thanks
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1125605].message }}

John Atkins

15 years ago

One other thing...

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

I see no reason why you say it does not matter because it does matter but again that is based per opinion and not fact. You say the onyl thing that matters is that it coverts, well I disagree it must be informative and appealing both to "YOUR" target market. It does not have to be so perfect that it coverts 95% of the visitors, but this is what it seems like to me you was saying when you typed in all caps.

Would you prefer an appealing & informative salespage
that doesn't convert? Or another salespage that does
convert?

Of course, usually the salespages with good conversion
rates are appealing and informative but you can never
be 100% sure about that.

This thread isn't about "How a sales page should be",
I'm sure everyone has his own unique opinion about that...

This thread was created to teach people that a sales page
that looks "bad" in their eyes can actually be a killer salespage.

You'll never know for SURE how good a salespage is until
you test it

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1125558].message }}

Scott Ames

15 years ago

True... the bottom line is how a page converts no matter what other marketers think. I think however its wise to have folks here take a look for several reasons...

People here can give suggestions for improvement which can be tested, catch errors, give their views on what might be wrong, etc. The person asking for help is kind of unzipping their fly into their niche and business and hoping for some ideas that can improve things. Hopefully they are smart enough to test suggestions and not follow them blindly.

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. -Winston Churchill

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1125579].message }}

Zeus66

15 years ago

I like this topic. The OP is 100% correct. I even think this general mistake applies in a lot of areas of life, not just sales pages and making money. Far too many people have tunnel vision. They think the way something makes them feel or react means most others feel and react the same way. Well, guess what? Many times you're wrong. Get over yourself. A sales page either converts or it doesn't. If you see a preponderance of the top 'gurus' using long sales pages, guess what? It's because they work. Especially if you see that pattern over and over (which discounts the possibility that you saw a bunch of test runs only).

A is A. Your feelings or personal reactions are utterly worthless in terms of being useful gauges for the masses of potential customers.

John

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1125613].message }}

Alexa Smith

Banned 15 years ago

[DELETED]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1125644].message }}

TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by alexa_s

It's about people with less experience asking the opinion of people with more experience. That's part of what goes on in forums, you know? Nobody is forced to read threads that irritate them. There are loads of threads that irritate me (principally those in which people who have little idea what they're talking about are trying, presumably in some sort of attempt to boost their reputation or to come across as an expert, to advise others, sometimes on the basis of totally erroneous "information"), but I just ignore them. Normally.

Even taking this as entirely accurate, one can't possibly test every variation of everything, otherwise one would have 500 pages to test and would never really get started. It seems very reasonable to invite opinions from experts to try to see if there's any obvious "consensus view" first, to narrow down the "testing-field", doesn't it? Isn't that a very legitimate part of the function of this forum?

Oh you go girl .... Great post Alexa!

James

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1126164].message }}

SurviveUnemployment

15 years ago

Those long sales pages won't work for long. Making a sale is all about trust, and people increasingly don't trust those "scammy" looking sales pages. People also don't scroll much these days what with big screens and all.

I am testing a sales page that is converting very well (as in, you wouldn't believe me if I told you so what's the point), and it doesn't look anything like the "gurus'" pages. Taste changes. What worked yesterday won't work tomorrow. The key is staying ahead of the game.

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

The best link-building strategy you never heard of...

Article Spinning Is Not a Crime!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1126197].message }}

MarkAndrews IMCopywriting 15 years ago

[DELETED]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1126550].message }}
- Paul Myers 15 years ago
  
  What is it with all these threads lately?
  
  Lately?
  
  Y'all're new 'round heah, ain'cha?
  
  Been going on at least since I joined the group, and I watched the same argument for years before that. I remember seeing Gary Halbert do a presentation at a seminar in Buffalo, back in the 80's, where he mentioned how some people will try to sell you on not selling.
  
  Long copy was his example.
  
  Make no mistake: For many of the people who join these discussions, "I feel" is Holy Writ. Their opinions are as much religion as anything else in their lives, if not more so. The filters of perception are myths to such people; inconvenient truths, to be treated with the same disdain as an adult who worships the Easter Beagle or the Great Pumpkin.
  
  Don't let them disgust you into giving up. Once in a great while, someone will listen. They'll start to test things, or look at the world through other eyes. And you'll make a difference for that one person that makes it all worth while.
  
  Sometimes you'll even hear about it, although it'll likely be years later...
  
  Paul
  
  [ 5 ] Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  .
  Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1126692].message }}
- Alexa Smith Banned 15 years ago
  
  [DELETED]
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1126806].message }}

Mike Hill

15 years ago

Originally Posted by SurviveUnemployment

Those long sales pages won't work for long. Making a sale is all about trust, and people increasingly don't trust those "scammy" looking sales pages. People also don't scroll much these days what with big screens and all.

I am testing a sales page that is converting very well (as in, you wouldn't believe me if I told you so what's the point), and it doesn't look anything like the "gurus'" pages. Taste changes. What worked yesterday won't work tomorrow. The key is staying ahead of the game.

If you're still testing another form of sales page then how can you boldly state that long form sales pages won't work for long?

Trouble is I have an expensive product being sold and cannot put all the explanations one would need in order to make a good buying decision for themselves if I had a short copy sales page... So you may think they look "scammy" and that's a wide brush, but try writing a short sales letter for a $200+ product...

Unless you have video there is no way you could get across everything you need to. Heck, the product outline is a lengthy piece of copy in itself, to explain the benefits of each part...

Mike Hill

PS. It's all about the conversion and not opinion...

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127570].message }}

Fernando Veloso 15 years ago

And please don't forget how a simple design change (color scheme) can make a huge difference in your sales.

People often forget this and change the copy when the problem is the design.

I design for 6 years and let me tell you: even I get duh!! when a simple change can do the trick. Last one was a simple change at header picture.

The difference? Doubled the conversions.

So, please, don't forget to have a word with your designer if your sales page needs another test.

Fernando
- [ 1 ] Thanks
Signature

People make good money selling to the rich. But the rich got rich selling to the masses.
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127641].message }}

GainRealWealth

15 years ago

Originally Posted by SurviveUnemployment

Those long sales pages won't work for long. Making a sale is all about trust, and people increasingly don't trust those "scammy" looking sales pages. People also don't scroll much these days what with big screens and all.

I am testing a sales page that is converting very well (as in, you wouldn't believe me if I told you so what's the point), and it doesn't look anything like the "gurus'" pages. Taste changes. What worked yesterday won't work tomorrow. The key is staying ahead of the game.

You know, that's and interesting point. When I first got into this I noticed the long drawn out sales pages and it does have a "scammy" feel to it and I always wondered why it was done that way. I'm going to recreate some sales pages and put a totally different twist to see what happens (just for the sake of experimenting).

Thanks

Signature

Follow Me On Twitter
My Personal Blog

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1128780].message }}

tessmac9708

15 years ago

The Ferrari 458 was previewd recently pending its upcoming launch in 2010.

The car is stunning in every way.

I read that some people thought it was ugly!

Ferrari must have been thinking that they had wasted thier time.

If only.....

Graham

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1126701].message }}

Hesaidblissfully 15 years ago

Long story short is that you are not your customers. Just because you don't like a certain marketing tactic, doesn't mean your customers won't. No, it's not ALL about making money, and you do need to offer value to your customers...but that's all the more reason to make sure that your sales pages convert as well as possible. By making more sales, you have more money to invest in developing your business, and so you can ultimately offer even better products and services to your customers.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1126737].message }}

Scott Murdaugh

15 years ago

Those long sales pages won't work for long. Making a sale is all about trust, and people increasingly don't trust those "scammy" looking sales pages. People also don't scroll much these days what with big screens and all.

Mark already beat me to it... Those "scammy" sales pages have worked for centuries. That's quite a long testing period.

Long form sales letters will outlive everyone on this forum. I'd bet my bank account on it.

-Scott

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Over $30 Million In Marketing Data And A Decade Of Consistently Generating Breakthrough Results - Ask How My Unique Approach To Copy Typically Outsells Traditional Ads By Up To 29x Or More...

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127429].message }}

Bill Jeffels

15 years ago

Let's cut the Bull.

What is proven to work? Do you think John Carlton knows?

Here's what he says...

"If I woke up tomorrow and realized the universe had changed in such a way that a decent sales pitch no longer required persuasion, proof, credibility, offers, and all the other classic ingredients, I'd be the first one writing short copy," writes John in Early to Rise (6/20/09).

"I don't write long copy because I like long copy," asserts John. "I write long copy because that's what works."

Why is this still an issue? Let it go.

-Bill

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Bond Halbert's Badass Blog

" You Are One Sales Letter Away From Being Rich " --Gary Halbert

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127480].message }}

Julian Lockhart

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Bill Jeffels

Let's cut the Bull.

What is proven to work? Do you think John Carlton knows?

Here's what he says...

"If I woke up tomorrow and realized the universe had changed in such a way that a decent sales pitch no longer required persuasion, proof, credibility, offers, and all the other classic ingredients, I'd be the first one writing short copy," writes John in Early to Rise (6/20/09).

"I don't write long copy because I like long copy," asserts John. "I write long copy because that's what works."

Why is this still an issue? Let it go.

-Bill

Actually, OP is saying that all that matters is conversions. Some folk are throwing in stuff about long sales letters though.:rolleyes:

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Sarasota Web Design

Biz Launch Box - Marketing Consultant

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127499].message }}

Bill Jeffels 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Julian Lockhart

Actually, OP is saying that all that matters is conversions. Some folk are throwing in stuff about long sales letters though.:rolleyes:

Yes, that's my point.

-Bill
- Thanks
Signature

Bond Halbert's Badass Blog
" You Are One Sales Letter Away From Being Rich " --Gary Halbert
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127510].message }}

TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Julian Lockhart

Actually, OP is saying that all that matters is conversions. Some folk are throwing in stuff about long sales letters though.:rolleyes:

Thank you finally someone that understands... That is my point - IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT MONEY/CONVERSIONS...

James

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127523].message }}

John Atkins

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Thank you finally someone that understands... That is my point - IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT MONEY/CONVERSIONS...

James

Internet Marketing is not all about money, yes that's true.

BUT

Salespages are all about good conversion rates

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127534].message }}

TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by IM Headlines

Internet Marketing is not all about money, yes that's true.

BUT

Salespages are all about good conversion rates

If I do not feel safe, secure, and all warm on the inside then your sales copy can be the greatest in the world and you will still lose the sale from me... It's that Simple!!!

Thus your sales copy failed to do it's job because I was not the first one being thought of but my wallet was...

James

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127644].message }}

Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

If I do not feel safe, secure, and all warm on the inside then your sales copy can be the greatest in the world and you will still lose the sale from me... It's that Simple!!!

Thus your sales copy failed to do it's job because I was not the first one being thought of but my wallet was...

James

Fine, he lost a sale from you.

But you can't speak for every other prospect out there.

Therefore, if his warm and fuzzy version converts at 1% and his version
that you don't like converts at 3%, guess what?

I'll let you finish the statement.

Yes, it's THAT simple.

Thanks

Signature

My Soundcloud Music Channel

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127658].message }}

John Atkins

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

If I do not feel safe, secure, and all warm on the inside then your sales copy can be the greatest in the world and you will still lose the sale from me... It's that Simple!!!

Thus your sales copy failed to do it's job because I was not the first one being thought of but my wallet was...

James

errmm, did I say that a salespage should make you feel
unsafe & insecure?

Then why in the world are you telling me this?

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127685].message }}

Amy Carczak

15 years ago

It's funny how stating the obvious set off this long thread ...there's a reason it's called a "sales page" and not an "information page" or an "about me page" or a "blog" of a "wiki" ...nope, it was called a "sales page" because it's designed to sell.

If it doesn't sell, it's not a doing it's job.

The best sales page is the one that converts the most .. that's the democratic market speaking and voting for what they consider to be the best sales page.

Simple common sense.

Amy

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127538].message }}

TristanPerry

15 years ago

So you make a thread to moan about people who are making threads to moan?

Riiight..

People are allowed an opinion - just like you, of course - but there's no need to shout and be angry.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Plagiarism Guard - Protect Against Content Theft

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127551].message }}

John Atkins 15 years ago

Tristan...

By the way you're talking, I can say that you didn't
read more than 25% of this thread. Either that, or
you simply can not understand the concept behind
this thread.

Originally Posted by TristanPerry

So you make a thread to moan about people who are making threads to moan?

I didn't create this thread to "moan". I created this thread to
teach newbies 1 simple thing about salespages. Read my posts
on this thread carefully & you'll understand what I'm trying
to point out.

Originally Posted by TristanPerry

People are allowed an opinion - just like you, of course - but there's no need to shout and be angry.

First of all, I'm not being angry... Why should I? lofl

And yes, everyone has his own opinion. But this isn't
about "opinions". I've never shared my "opinions" on
how a salespage should be, on this thread.

Take a look at this sentence (this sentence
contains the "obvious" point that I've been trying to
point out)

"You'll never know how good a salespage really is until
you test it"

Not an opinion. It's a fact. A professional
Copywriter can probably know the average conversion rate
beforehand but still, he won't be 100% sure about it
until he tests it out.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127614].message }}

Doug

15 years ago

How about this...

The sales page that provides customer service by answering as many, if not all, questions and doubts in the prospects mind is the best converting regardless of length(subject to further testing).

...Red, Yellow, Black & White

Doug

PS - As I understand business, it is about separating your prospect from their cash. Period. Using all tools and methods at your disposal.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

>>>>> No Opt-In Required ~ FREE Internet Marketing Software ~ plus Video Training! <<<<<

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127908].message }}

Frank Donovan

15 years ago

Gosh, this has been like watching a tennis rally - I think I've developed neck strain.

Let me try to bridge the apparent gap between both the main arguments put forth in this thread..

The contention in the OP that the ultimate aim of a sales page is to convert, is hard to disagree with. What seems to have raised a few hackles is the assumption that such a statement gives a copywriter "carte blanche" to do whatever it takes to get the sale.

I don't think that was what the OP intended to imply.

Of course, a sales page must sell. But perhaps it needn't always be considered in such an isolated context.

If you examine a typical major IM product launch, you'll notice that the communication with potential customers starts long before the appearance of any sales page. The target market is seduced by freebies and by quality content. They're given insights into the personality and character of the marketer. This causes a groundswell of like and trust in the marketer well before the actual product release.

When the sales page finally appears (if, indeed one ever does), it's a continuation of the style of communication already established in the run-up to the launch. A hard sell is rarely necessary.

I think this is what James and others in this thread are alluding to when talking about "customer service" starting before the sale.

A good copywriter will often try to get across something of the company's ethos or character in the sales copy. It can help the marketer gel with potential customers and establish a rapport. If a canny marketer has spent time building a back story and generating trust, the sales process can be that much easier.

So yes, a sales page must convert. But it works best if it's a natural continuation of the marketer/customer conversation.

Frank

[ 4 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127923].message }}

Martin Luxton

15 years ago

You know how certain topics get moved from this forum to the Off Topic Forum?

I've been thinking for a while maybe there should be a "Fact" subforum and an "Opinion" subforum and the mods can move a thread as appropriate.

Martin

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127947].message }}

Julian Lockhart

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Martin Luxton

You know how certain topics get moved from this forum to the Off Topic Forum?

I've been thinking for a while maybe there should be a "Fact" subforum and an "Opinion" subforum and the mods can move a thread as appropriate.

Martin

I like that, in fact I like it a lot.

I feel like it's a great Idea.

LOL

Thanks

Signature

Sarasota Web Design

Biz Launch Box - Marketing Consultant

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127982].message }}

Julian Lockhart

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

...

The contention in the OP that the ultimate aim of a sales page is to convert, is hard to disagree with. What seems to have raised a few heckles is the assumption that such a statement gives a copywriter "carte blanche" to do whatever it takes to get the sale.

I don't think that was what the OP intended to imply.

Frank

Yep - I don't think so either but new marketers can and do infer it from it(or statements like it) that they can have "carte blanche"

I am sure many could chime in a say "oh no I don't see it that way."

You have to remember that people are different... Just because
YOU won't buy from a particular salespage, that doesn't mean
that other buyers won't.

or

You have to remember that people are different... Just because
YOU see it that way, that doesn't mean
that others won't see it that way.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Sarasota Web Design

Biz Launch Box - Marketing Consultant

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1127974].message }}

Collette 15 years ago

Interesting kerfuffle going on here... and all kinds of apples and oranges being compared.

Everyone is in business (online or offline) to make money. Unless they're a non-profit organization. Which, for the purposes of this thread, we're assuming, not.

Everyone in business has to decide how they're most comfortable conducting their business. And use their own ethical compass to guide them.

Practically speaking, that means that some people are comfortable using lies and scam to acquire a sale - and others are not. Some people are comfortable doing whatever they have to to make a quick buck - others are more interested in building a viable, long-term business and a loyal customer base.

Fortunes have been made either way. However, fortunes made from lies and scamming are often lost as quickly as they're made.

When you choose to walk a particular path of business ethics, the choice is yours, and yours alone.

And that has nothing to do with whether or not anybody likes a sales page. Or whether a sales page works. Or, whether the purpose of a sales page is to sell (it is).

There seems to be some Great Divide that assumes people holding the position "the purpose of a sales page is to sell" means all those folks are prepared to "sell" - at the expense of "selling ethically".

Not true.

And NONE of which has anything to do with, "Do you like that sales page?", or with, "Does this sales page work?"

It's pretty simple, really - The ONLY voice that matters is your customer's. And your customer will tell you whether or not they like your sales page. And whether or not it works.

If you are marketing to people who are vulnerable to scams and hype - that's the ONLY kind of customer who will buy from you.

And, PS - you can't 'force' anyone into buying anything they don't 'want'. Sure, you can tap into their deep-rooted desires (sometimes they don't even know they have these deires!), and 'convince' them to purchase something they don't need.

But, copywriting services hype aside, you can not force a sale.

NEVER confuse a prospect's "needs" with their "wants". Nobody 'needs' anything except food, clothing and shelter. From there on - it's all about 'wants'.

So, in the end, the question isn't whether you or anybody else likes a particular sales page.

It's about:
- Who am I selling to?
- Who do I want to be selling to?
- Are they the same market?

which leads to:

- How do I most effectively reach the people I want to be selling to in the way they want to be reached?
- [ 2 ] Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1128071].message }}

DougBarger

15 years ago

If I'm hiring a non-virtual salesperson to be on the frontlines,
you better believe it will be the one who is trained in face to face sales
and has direct sales experience.

Now as "good of a person" as the other candidate may be,
the actual duty of the salesperson for the company/your business
is to generate sales.

You can measure how "good of a salesperson" your
salesletters are for your business with statistical data.

If your salesletter is all warm and fuzzy but it isn't producing any sales for you,
then fire it!

Kick it to the curb!

Look it square in those puppy dog eyes and tell it,
"we've chosen to go a different direction, but best wishes to you."

[music] "Hit the road jack and don't you come back no more, no more"[/music]

You're not a politician or artist hoping to win votes or appreciation from
the morning coffee club at hardees or the evening bridge or bingo club.

You're the business owner whose responsibility for making sure your marketing
generates revenue outweighs personal preferences.

Now picture the first time salesperson going out into the field
to make his pitch for the first time wet behind the ears
and as fresh faced as a face can be this side of the womb
in the world of selling.

Eyes darting around, head hung low in lack of confidence,
he approaches his 'prospect' and says,
"You aren't in the market for _____ are you?"

The 'prospect' who really could benefit from _____
says, "No."

The salesperson says, "Oh okay, thanks, have a great day" and
turns around relieved to be away from any potential sale.

If it's commission only and he has to tag along with a top producer
who observes him, it won't be long before he finds out what works
and gets the job done so he can eat.

Your salesletter is the same way.
If it's "good for you" but it isn't performing in terms of
bringing home the bacon with a decent sales conversion rate,
then you need to find out what works and make the adjustments,
but more than likely, you need to obtain the services
of a competent professional who specializes in taking
that non-performing salesletter and turning it into
that top producer for you.

They're called copywriters and they write good salescopy.

It's called "good" because it gets the job done.

Whether pretty or down and dirty, it gets the job done.

What job is that? To produce the sales!

That's the purpose of your salesletter.

[ 2 ] Thanks

Signature

=> Click Here Now to Get Step-by-Step Automated Profits Coaching 100% Guaranteed!
Product Creation Ideas
Increase Your Website Traffic

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1128064].message }}

Ripped

15 years ago

What the OP was trying to say, was that it's not important what you, me, or someone else think about the sales page, all it matters is how it converts.

Meaning, you shouldn't just say, this sales page sucks, because after you saw it, you didn't believe that it would convert, based on your 'gut feeling' or marketing experience. That's totally irellevant, you can be the most experienced marketer in the world. If the sales page converts, that's all it matters

Look at Fat Loss 4 Idiots, everyone thought that the sales page sucks . I didn't like the sales page myself.. however it converts. That's proof enough for me, even though I didn't think the lander was good, that's not relevant at all, all it matters is that it converts.

You cannot really view it in the customers eyes, each customer is different, each niche is different, so for a sales page that you might think is crappy, the customer might see it as a very convincing page.

Bottom line is, when deciding on whether a sales page is good, don't jump to the conclusion 'this page sucks', because you don't like it, but look at the track record it has and how it sells

A good sales page is the one that sells well PERIOD.

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1128752].message }}

Do you like that sales page? IT DOESN'T FRIKKIN MATTER IF YOU DON'T!

Trending Topics

Any thoughts on golf's latest phenom...Scottie Scheffler??

Should i Index Author pages?

best high quality crypto traffic.

What's the Best IM-Related Skill to Learn Today That Can Help in the Future?

Some interesting stats about brand comms