Fraud and 90% of Warrior business

8 years ago

Almost disgraceful? You're not good at ranting, my friend.

Originally Posted by Zodiax

There seems to be a rise in the number of deceptive businesses.

All one has to do is go through the WSO section and see pages full of threads promising 'X amount of money in just 7 short days'.

Why do people here think that anonymity and the internet makes decietful practices less illegal?

I mean, why not just come out and say, 'I have a money making scheme that involves ripping people off, want to be a part of it?'

It shouldn't be hard to sell.

I mean it's almost disgraceful that people would rather make their living on fraud than honest business.

/End Rant

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talfighel

8 years ago

Just like there are many great business opportunities online that promise riches ($10,000 per month is the usual number) but when it comes to teaching people how to EFFECTIVELY MARKET their business, how many leads per day they should get, etc, they fall short.

These companies and "gurus" never teach specific techniques. They just say:

GO out there and market without any real specific actions where and how.

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ForumGuru

Banned 8 years ago

Yeah, since Alaister has left it looks like the section has started to degrade a lot quicker than it already was degrading.

I doubt he was personally moderating the section...but since then, it looks like a ton of vendors seem to be able to circumvent more WSO section rules than usual.

Rule #17: Income Claims & Guarantees

Sellers are not to make claims around income that has been made unless this income can be verified through Warrior Payments. Sellers are not permitted to make claims about or imply that income will result from purchasing a WSO.

This will be strictly enforced to protect the Warrior community.

This is applicable to the WSO Marketplace and all sub-forums.

Strictly enforced my ass!

Cheers

-don

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Sven300

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

All one has to do is go through the WSO section and see pages full of threads promising 'X amount of money in just 7 short days'.

Why do people here think that anonymity and the internet makes decietful practices less illegal?

Yes it is exactly that.

You say what many think but do not dare say.

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S T E V E

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

There seems to be a rise in the number of deceptive businesses.

All one has to do is go through the WSO section and see pages full of threads promising 'X amount of money in just 7 short days'.

Why do people here think that anonymity and the internet makes decietful practices less illegal?

Like this thread asking how to sell people fake traffic-http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...t-traffic.html

I mean, why not just come out and say, 'I have a money making scheme that involves ripping people off, want to be a part of it?'

It shouldn't be hard to sell.

I mean it's almost disgraceful that people would rather make their living on fraud than honest business.

/End Rant

I'd say 90% of those threads are simply designed for one thing, to sucker in the newbie and desperate people looking to make quick money... And obviously it works!

Wherever there are people with a problem and money to spend, there are always going to be people looking to exploit those people... Play on their fears... Promise them a better life...

It's your job to filter through the shit and let your bullshit meter alarm pull you away from such offers.

Do your research, don't just buy on impulse. And remember if it seems too good to be true it almost certainly is.

If I could really show you how to make a guaranteed $9782.66 in 11 days... I'd be charging a premium to let you see how I do it - Not $7

Steve

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Zodiax

8 years ago

Originally Posted by S T E V E

I'd say 90% of those threads are simply designed for one thing, to sucker in the newbie and desperate people looking to make quick money... And obviously it works!

Wherever there are people with a problem and money to spend, there are always going to be people looking to exploit those people... Play on their fears... Promise them a better life...

It's your job to filter through the shit and let your bullshit meter alarm pull you away from such offers.

Do your research, don't just buy on impulse. And remember if it seems too good to be true it almost certainly is.

If I could really show you how to make a guaranteed $9782.66 in 11 days... I'd be charging a premium to let you see how I do it - Not $7

Steve

Would you eat cotton candy covered in dog poo?

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BillyParadise

8 years ago

Originally Posted by S T E V E

If I could really show you how to make a guaranteed $9782.66 in 11 days... I'd be charging a premium to let you see how I do it - Not $7

Spot on. Actually, if I could show you how to make $10k in 11 days, I'd want at least half.

People are just afraid of a little hard work - I've got a project right now worth over $120k a year - $10k a month basically - to the right partner, but who do you think will get more takers - me, who comes clean about the requirements - a full time effort for a few months at least - or the guy who wants to make his $10k with no effort, so will take a flyer on a $7 WSO lotto ticket.

Those who can't - they teach, right? It makes you wonder why we listen to our teachers.

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DABK

8 years ago

Actually, if I could show you how to make $100k in 30 days, and told you, you wouldn't believe me. So, I'd have to show you how to make $11k in $11 days for $7, to have a chance to show you how to make $100k for $7k.

Those who can't, they teach. So do those who can. Your job is to pick the right one.

You are right about lots of people want the rewards without putting in the work.

Originally Posted by BillyParadise

Spot on. Actually, if I could show you how to make $10k in 11 days, I'd want at least half.

...

Those who can't - they teach, right? It makes you wonder why we listen to our teachers.

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zimbizee 8 years ago

Originally Posted by DABK

Those who can't, they teach.

What a ridiculous and naive comment
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- DABK 8 years ago
  
  This was my comment: Those who can't, they teach. So do those who can. Your job is to pick the right one.
  
  Kindly, don't misquote me.
  
  Originally Posted by zimbizee
  
  What a ridiculous and naive comment
  
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Amazing Dave

8 years ago

Well, it makes it easier to market for people that actually offer quality.

As long as someone provides a high quality product with great customer support, there will be no competition for him. People have a different mindset.

There are people looking to make a quick buck out of the WSO section by clearly ripping people off, and they make some profit.

Then there are people who offer quality... Those are the ones who make the most profit in the long run.

Regards,
~ Dave

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kartherma

8 years ago

Zodiax, I am curious...
The "dirty trick" you mention in your signature- that's not wrapped up in this fraud discussion, is it?

;-)

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AlejandroL 8 years ago

Originally Posted by kartherma

Zodiax, I am curious...
The "dirty trick" you mention in your signature- that's not wrapped up in this fraud discussion, is it?

;-)

LOL Posts like these make my day
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DRP

8 years ago

No comment. I don't feel like getting the ban hammer for swinging the truth hammer. Truth doesn't mix well with the internet...or people in general.

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Jeff Burritt

Banned 8 years ago

Seems like the WSO threads are about the same to me. I think it's more that people change and grow in their attitudes after being around here for awhile. So the once shiny objects don't have the same luster as they used to. WSO copyright has always been targeted towards newbies, much like summer movies are targeted towards teenagers.

That said, is the overall quality and selection down a bit? Yes, I think so. And that's because a lot of the bigger IM and software developers are launching their own products independently, promoting to their own lists, JV invite groups, and facebook ads. They just don't need the WF like they used to.

But, the WF is still a good place to pick up WSOs and good info. There's just more choices/channels now elsewhere. IM has diversified, much like the internet in general.

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ANDREIS

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

There seems to be a rise in the number of deceptive businesses.

All one has to do is go through the WSO section and see pages full of threads promising 'X amount of money in just 7 short days'.

Like this thread asking how to sell people fake traffic-http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...t-traffic.html

Yes, there are so many outright lies around here. Here's the rule of a thumb:

- Never trust photos and videos claiming to be proofs of big money earned. With today's technology and software it's not that hard to fake anything and make it look credible. Instead try to see how long someone has been online, what he's been doing online, check his profiles and accounts. Trust the person who has good history, never trust photos and videos claiming to be proofs of income.

- If someone is offering to give you or send to your sites traffic for a very low price - don't use that! I can assure you that anyone offering you any cheap traffic will send you just that - cheap, no good, worthless traffic! Real person who is interested in what you've got to offer is the only type of visitor you need, and that kind of traffic nobody will give you for pennies.

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Steve B

8 years ago

There's also plenty of blame to be laid at the feet of many people that buy MMO products.

How many make a purchase, then grouse about the product being a scam and yet they haven't given it a fair chance . . . many don't even do anything that is taught yet they gripe that the product doesn't work.

Steve

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TenaciousGrease

8 years ago

For some Reason, FreeLancer is determined to make the WF a sh*t hole and they're doing a great job so far since taking over! Alastair didnt do much either

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trobo

8 years ago

This type of thing has been going on long before the days of the internet and MMO.

There is a strong appeal to the idea of making money with little or no effort, and it takes mental discipline to not get sucked into it - and to realize nothing worthwhile ever comes without putting forth effort.

There will always be those who will try to exploit the wishful thinkers.

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Sven300 8 years ago

Originally Posted by trobo

This type of thing has been going on long before the days of the internet......

There will always be those who will try to exploit the wishful thinkers.

This is true.

But without possessing serious data to support my point of view, I nevertheless believe that the arrival of the web has created an explosion in this type of behavior.

Why?

1) I think this is due in part to the fact that it is easier and cheaper to create a virtual cheating operation than a cheating operation in the physical world.

2) And that people have an impression of impunity. Especially if the fraudster is located in a developing country with lax enforcement laws and that the sucker is located far away in a developed country.
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coolmanyou2

8 years ago

#Messedup and wrong.

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atheistberkerak

8 years ago

a disgrace for IM entirely

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Profit Traveler

Banned 8 years ago

Hey Zodiax!

Really one of the best things we can do is deliver even more quality than expected and that will really separate us from the pack.

I feel you on that topic but believe it or not it's actually better now than it used to be.

Was a lot of BlackHat taking place here years ago and people literally creating WSOs from other Forum Posts like hit it and quit it CPA methods and just copy and pasting into a PDF!

I tend to get a little more Pd Off about the offline world seriously.

Like General Motors killing it's own customers by intentionally selling faulty cars knowing they would just have to pay a fine.

General Motors will pay $900 million to settle criminal charges related to its flawed ignition switch that has been tied to at least 124 deaths.

Or Bank Of America who literally sits around and has meetings on how to bend their own customers over and squeeze them for every dime they can.

Bank of America Cancels $5 Fee

And then there are always other businesses you have to keep your eyes on for deceptive practices...

Oakland Athletics: Green Collar Sham! Small and...

Not sure why the video format here in the forum is so damn big!

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MattB27

8 years ago

The first product I ever bought was called the clickbank code - $49 from clickbank, it had income claims of $80000 per month - i knew that wasnt true (probably included all affiliate sales to) However I went through the entire course, I learnt heaps about market research, google adwords and basic affiliate sales. That information was invaluable but I had to do all the tasks myself and I went theough the entire course which apparently only about 15% of people do.

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Mr Bill

8 years ago

I treat WSOs like magazines with a few good articles inside. I also like hot rods and I like to buy hot rod magazines but will one magazine tell me how to build an entire hot rod? No and neither do I expect a WSO to give me everything I need to achieve my financial goals. It's all in the expectation. If all we expect is information that will help (in some way), we'll be happy 90% of the time.

I'm not sure what study you're referring to that shows 90% is the number but I'd love to see it and what conditions they used to define a WSO as fraudulent. That would be really interesting I think. If you have a link to the study that would be awesome.

True story:
I've bought dozens if not hundreds of WSOs and so far I'm way ahead. One of them I took massive action on and ended up making over $40,000 from it (mobile websites by WillR - look it up if you're not familiar with how fantastic and useful a WSO can be). At $7 per WSO I'd have to buy over 5,700 WSOs to spend it all and break even and I wonder what I'd have learned during that process.

There's gold in there as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow - go find something that suits you and expect to have to move some dirt to get to the gold. The clues to a low quality effort are usually always in the sales copy and after post support but I've been really surprised at the high quality of some of the worst written WSOs (sales copy wise) so you just never know.

Aren't we bigger than WSO bashing yet?

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Profit Traveler

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

I treat WSOs like magazines with a few good articles inside. I also like hot rods and I like to buy hot rod magazines but will one magazine tell me how to build an entire hot rod? No and neither do I expect a WSO to give me everything I need to achieve my financial goals. It's all in the expectation. If all we expect is information that will help (in some way), we'll be happy 90% of the time.

I'm not sure what study you're referring to that shows 90% is the number but I'd love to see it and what conditions they used to define a WSO as fraudulent. That would be really interesting I think. If you have a link to the study that would be awesome.

True story:
I've bought dozens if not hundreds of WSOs and so far I'm way ahead. One of them I took massive action on and ended up making over $40,000 from it (mobile websites by WillR - look it up if you're not familiar with how fantastic and useful a WSO can be). At $7 per WSO I'd have to buy over 5,700 WSOs to spend it all and break even and I wonder what I'd have learned during that process.

There's gold in there as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow - go find something that suits you and expect to have to move some dirt to get to the gold. The clues to a low quality effort are usually always in the sales copy and after post support but I've been really surprised at the high quality of some of the worst written WSOs (sales copy wise) so you just never know.

Aren't we bigger than WSO bashing yet?

Excellent share Mr. Bill I totally agree. I see it as a way to differentiate what we offer from everything else out there.

But on a sad point you reminded me of yet another Successful and Generous Marketer WillR who does not hang out here at the forum much anymore. Maybe that means he is focused on that cash flow.

Art

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art72

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

Excellent share Mr. Bill I totally agree. I see it as a way to differentiate what we offer from everything else out there.

But on a sad point you reminded me of yet another Successful and Generous Marketer WillR who does not hang out here at the forum much anymore. Maybe that means he is focused on that cash flow.

Art

Yes, there's quality here "IF" you understand the importance of researching and sifting through the dirt to find the gold. Certainly, I cannot profess to be an expert "buyer or seller" of WSO's as I rarely purchase them, and have yet to create one.

However, calling 90% of Warrior business - "Fraud?"... I think is a bit of a harsh assumption. After all, if you really want the knowledge it's all right here, if you know where and how to research it!

However, this forum has certainly lost some of it's luster and as many other doors have opened to diversify into other beneficial marketing channels outside this forum (as Jeff Burritt) mentioned... many of the 'original' warrior's (including guys like WillR) have chosen to pursue other paths... and their absence has made an impact on the quality here since FL took over IMHO.

Losing people like PaulM and several others... has crippled this forum to a degree.

Even still, I see no problem recognizing and differentiating the dog shit from the cotton candy! - After all, it only requires some common-sense, effort, and for those with a 'buyer's mindset' maybe learning to apply some restraint and practical thinking.

In the beginning, I remember thinking if I pasted enough 300x300 stickers (banner ads) on the internet, I'd be rich too...lol!

At the end of the day... it boils down to individual preference, some people like getting screwed or suffer from some form of 'addiction' that supports all the BS being sold online and offline around the globe! - not just here!

I've been burned 2 or 3 times online. The biggest being for $1k buy-in for a bogus 'recruitment MLM' that concentrated on recruitment, and used a boatload of garbage PLR (not quality PLR) - regurgitated, useless, and about as valuable as the guy in the video above.

BUT... I will say this; "Had I not touched the flame and gotten burnt, I may have never LEARNED the true meaning of Caveat emptor... which if I am not mistaken was WillR who taught me the definition!

Often I think what's worse is those who as SteveB mentioned buy something, do nothing with it, and then 'gripe' about it not working or being a scam. You can't fix lazy people... they like being helpless, seeking pity, and searching out people who will sympathize with them on the GIANT COMMODE of SELF-LOATHING!

WSO's often fill the need like a crack dealer or corner whore... and while it might not be everyone's cup of tea... the dealer's are going to dealing, just like the addicted gambler will keep gambling to no avail.

Sometimes I wish I had such an excuse... as my 20,000+ word PLR article pack is set to be LIVE (on another site, not as a WSO yet) - I am paranoid that it will NEVER be good enough! - I certainly WILL NOT be the predator who preys on the weak... there's enough of that shit going around in the world.

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desley

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

I treat WSOs like magazines with a few good articles inside. I also like hot rods and I like to buy hot rod magazines but will one magazine tell me how to build an entire hot rod? No and neither do I expect a WSO to give me everything I need to achieve my financial goals. It's all in the expectation. If all we expect is information that will help (in some way), we'll be happy 90% of the time.

I'm not sure what study you're referring to that shows 90% is the number but I'd love to see it and what conditions they used to define a WSO as fraudulent. That would be really interesting I think. If you have a link to the study that would be awesome.

True story:
I've bought dozens if not hundreds of WSOs and so far I'm way ahead. One of them I took massive action on and ended up making over $40,000 from it (mobile websites by WillR - look it up if you're not familiar with how fantastic and useful a WSO can be). At $7 per WSO I'd have to buy over 5,700 WSOs to spend it all and break even and I wonder what I'd have learned during that process.

There's gold in there as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow - go find something that suits you and expect to have to move some dirt to get to the gold. The clues to a low quality effort are usually always in the sales copy and after post support but I've been really surprised at the high quality of some of the worst written WSOs (sales copy wise) so you just never know.

Aren't we bigger than WSO bashing yet?

Hi,
I think you're onto something here in this thread. I regularly return to WF to see what is happening - the trends of what WSO's people are offering as it gives me a good idea of what the current state of play is in internet land.

I've also bought heaps of WSO's - some out of sheer curiousity as to what they offer.

No one WSO has really cut it - however, I've learnt heaps in the process and along the way there are some real golden nuggets.

I've noticed there is a trend for WSO re Done for You services, yet really when you look at the price tag, and you really don't know the author, I wonder how these WSO's really end up for the person.

Sure I'd like to have some things done for me, so I can free up my time. However, I do have to stick to some type of budget which doesn't break the bank.

I've noticed since the Humingbird updates, software appears to have gone by and by. Not that a lot of software was worth it at any rate.

Even backlinks and stuff like this appear to be suffering a similar fate.

So whilst some of the WSO's are BS of the first order, even they, do make an interesting read at times!!! Simply avoid getting caught up in the BS and as already stated, ensure your own BS meter is working well and is rather accurate.

Enjoy the read even if you don't purchase the WSO. You can pick up some high quality information in the process.

Desley

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Brent Stangel

8 years ago

Would you eat cotton candy covered in dog poo?

I wouldn't buy any unless I found a vendor selling clean, quality candy...so, no.

That's the point.

There's gold in there as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow

Absolutely true, Bill.

The problem for newbies is, they don't know quality when they see it.

I firmly believe the people who will eventually build sustainable online businesses will do so regardless if they get scammed a time or two, or have to wade through oceans of bullshit to find the drops of truth.

You don't have to tell them "if it sounds to good to be true..." They don't need "accountability partners," they drive themselves harder then they probably should. They don't need hand holding, but at times require answers to specific questions or other issues.

You don't have to tell them to use the search box, they already did.

You have to be a highly motivated, self-starter who is willing and able to make the self-sacrifices required, learn from your mistakes and roll with the punches.

No one sells that on the WSO forum.

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WatchMaker

8 years ago

WSOs aren't supposed to make you any money most of the time. They are mass produced and marketed here for the newbs trying to enter the affiliate industry.
If you want real solid info you need to find good friends, pick a traffic source and get to testing. You will most likely have to invest several hundreds or thousands in the beginning to even get a feel what IM really is.
There are some actual good paid premium forums out there like STM and AFFPlayBook.

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BillyParadise 8 years ago

Originally Posted by WatchMaker

WSOs aren't supposed to make you any money most of the time. .

That's the exact opposite of how they're marketed, isn't it?
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- WatchMaker 8 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by BillyParadise
  
  That's the exact opposite of how they're marketed, isn't it?
  
  I probably will get banned for this, but anyways here we go.
  
  Hey we've all been there. You see an advertisement somewhere on the web that promises to give you a system that makes you rich overnight by posting funny dog meme pictures on social media or something very etchy sketchy like that. You buy the product and it obviously don't make you a dime. You then go to google and start searching info on how to make money online and land here.
  You are then officially stuck in the newb hole of IM. Many people stay here for years and years buying WSOs and never achieve anything.
  
  Most of the time these hyper intricate niche systems sold as "internet marketing products" will not make anyone any money.
  The WSOs are very much like the IM products which used to be run on clickbank five years ago before getting banned.
  They promise or "hint" that you could make "$x,xxx a day after a week if you follow the system", but that is just pure bull.
  
  You need to stop buying this stuff and understand that IM is a serious business if you want to make it your main income source. The "Gurus" here are mostly people who are product owners themselves who post half-baked info day in day out and "offer help" by directing you to signup to their mailing list which will then bombard you with even more petty products.
  
  Pick a traffic vertical/source like facebook, popups, native, mobile and stick with it. Do your damn research and don't rely on these gimmicky little ebooks. If they worked as they are marketed everyone would be a millionaire. If you can't do this I am sorry, but you aren't ready for IM (yet).
  
  You also need to understand that a real business comes with real costs. Yeah you will actually have to invest your own hard earned cash!
  
  Hosting
  Tracking software
  Paid traffic (every ad impression costs)
  
  You are looking at a starting budget of at least 500$ (1k is even better) to get any real feel of what's happening. You also need to be mentally prepared to lose in the beginning. You can't just quit after losing eighty bucks on a traffic source you are testing for the first time.
  
  The best thing you can do is get out of here and join STM or AffPlayBook, those places offer noobs some actual step-by-step working casestudies which you can study to get a basic understanding. Good info is not free or sold for 25$. Millionaire lever info is even more under the rock and you will not find any system here that spoon feeds you to the point that you become worth six or seven figures. You need to do stuff by yourself and to do so you need to get the basics first. Stop wasting your time on IM snakeoil.
  
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  Mr Bill 8 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by WatchMaker
  
  The best thing you can do is get out of here...
  
  If you hate this vile place so much why are you here? Lose the superman complex and show some manners dude.
  
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  WatchMaker 8 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Mr Bill
  
  If you hate this vile place so much why are you here? Lose the superman complex and show some manners dude.
  
  I occasionally log on to check my PMs. There is also something useful here now and then. For example I found the Rapsio traffic platform rep's contact info here, although I landed through google.
  
  But this place lives and thrives off low level information and some lifestyle/IM-gurus are able to exploit this by writing "Magic pill salescopy" for these people who don't know better. It doesn't help them, it shoves them deeper in the quicksand. This is the very same type of marketing which is widespread within the Nutra industry.
  "Easy fix for 49,99 a month! Lose your type-2 diabetes while you sleep and shove more hamburgers down your throat! Doctor's hate this new **** berry super garcinia extract!"
  
  There are many, many WSO-professionals who don't do anything else but release these type of WSOs.
  
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  Mr Bill 8 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by WatchMaker
  
  There are many, many WSO-professionals who don't do anything else but release these type of WSOs.
  
  Not that many man. A few - maybe but not the infestation that's portrayed in inane threads like this. It's just a spewious line that some people love to latch onto and repeat for god know's what reason. Maybe it makes them feel good about their own lack of success because "it's the WSO's fault" but I know that for anyone with real experience it's far from reality.
  
  Encouragement and guidance is what new people to the scene need.
  
  Thanks
  
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nicheblogger75

8 years ago

While I agree that a lot of the WSOs (it's not just WSOs, but lots of products in the MMO niche in general) are pure crap, I also have to say that a lot of the blame lies with people who are naive enough to think that they can start a successful business of ANY kind in 7 days, or even 30 days for that matter.

It took me a little over 2 years before I was able to fully rely on the Internet for my entire income. And it wasn't two years of working an hour or two a day, either. It was 2 years of working 8-12+ hours a day, almost EVERY DAY.

Now, I'm not someone who likes to make money as a coach/mentor. By that I mean I'm not a person who wants to take on students that I work with personally on a daily or weekly basis. It's just not my thing. However, in the almost 9 years since I've had my business, I have had a few relatives and close friends ask me to show them what I'm doing.

I agreed to do that, only to realize right away that ALL of them had this strange idea that it was going to be super easy and that all I did was go out and have fun and lay around the house all day and the money just rolled in. The very first thing I always did is to dispel that myth immediately. I NEVER sugar coated it. I told them they would have to listen to everything I said and follow it to the letter, or else they would not succeed, period. I also told them that if they did not have at least 2-3 years to invest, then to forget about it.

How many of them do you think succeeded? ZERO. Is it because I'm a bad teacher? Sure, that's possible. I don't think so, though, because I showed them all EXACTLY what I'm doing. How, then, could it be that I'm successful and they fail? The answer is simple. While they understood the concept of what I was teaching them, they were simply unwilling to put in the work and dedication that it takes to succeed online.

Who's fault is that? Is it the fault of all of the product vendors who create the courses that make it sound easy? Possibly.

However, I think it comes down to the fact that the individual is not motivated enough and does not want to work. Lots of people think it's a walk in the park to run an Internet business. Well guess what? IT'S NOT!

The point is that while there are plenty of crappy products out there, there are even more lazy, unmotivated people out there who get frustrated and quit at the first sign of any hard work.

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Zodiax

8 years ago

Originally Posted by nicheblogger75

While I agree that a lot of the WSOs (it's not just WSOs, but lots of products in the MMO niche in general) are pure crap, I also have to say that a lot of the blame lies with people who are naive enough to think that they can start a successful business of ANY kind in 7 days, or even 30 days for that matter.

It took me a little over 2 years before I was able to fully rely on the Internet for my entire income. And it wasn't two years of working an hour or two a day, either. It was 2 years of working 8-12+ hours a day, almost EVERY DAY.

Now, I'm not someone who likes to make money as a coach/mentor. By that I mean I'm not a person who wants to take on students that I work with personally on a daily or weekly basis. It's just not my thing. However, in the almost 9 years since I've had my business, I have had a few relatives and close friends ask me to show them what I'm doing.

I agreed to do that, only to realize right away that ALL of them had this strange idea that it was going to be super easy and that all I did was go out and have fun and lay around the house all day and the money just rolled in. The very first thing I always did is to dispel that myth immediately. I NEVER sugar coated it. I told them they would have to listen to everything I said and follow it to the letter, or else they would not succeed, period. I also told them that if they did not have at least 2-3 years to invest, then to forget about it.

How many of them do you think succeeded? ZERO. Is it because I'm a bad teacher? Sure, that's possible. I don't think so, though, because I showed them all EXACTLY what I'm doing. How, then, could it be that I'm successful and they fail? The answer is simple. While they understood the concept of what I was teaching them, they were simply unwilling to put in the work and dedication that it takes to succeed online.

Who's fault is that? Is it the fault of all of the product vendors who create the courses that make it sound easy? Possibly.

However, I think it comes down to the fact that the individual is not motivated enough and does not want to work. Lots of people think it's a walk in the park to run an Internet business. Well guess what? IT'S NOT!

The point is that while there are plenty of crappy products out there, there are even more lazy, unmotivated people out there who get frustrated and quit at the first sign of any hard work.

Good points, but the WSO section needs more moderation and enforcement.

There isn't enough accountability here anymore. Certain things wouldn't have been tolerated in the past.

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nicheblogger75

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

Good points, but the WSO section needs more moderation and enforcement.

There isn't enough accountability here anymore. Certain things wouldn't have been tolerated in the past.

I can definitely agree with that. I thought that income claims were no longer allowed but after taking a look through the WSO section this morning I see that it not being strictly enforced at all anymore.

What I find really disturbing that on more than occasion I have seen the exact same income proof screen shots on many different sales pages, and they weren't all products from the same marketer, either.

On the flip side, though, this has also been going on for years, and it comes down to the buyer having some common sense. There is NO WAY (at least that I know of) that you can start making 9K per week online in 30 days or less.

One thing that really bothers me, though, is that often people who are looking to make money online are in a dire financial situation and so I think that deep down they know that what they are reading is total BS, but they want it to be true so badly they buy it anyway. I don't think it's cool at all for vendors to be taking advantage of newbies knowing full well that a lot of them have that mindset.

Maybe it's me. Maybe I'm just too nice and couldn't take somebody's last $7 for a product that I know does not fulfill it's promises.

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ForumGuru

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

...the WSO section needs more moderation and enforcement.

There isn't enough accountability here anymore. Certain things wouldn't have been tolerated in the past.

You win the prize! 100k had posted this in another section ----> talk about hitting the spot on this thread! Maybe this one should be pinned to the top of the WSO forum as a buyer beware informational...

Money Making Ebooks - YouTube

It's not really a laughing matter, but whatever you do, please don't laugh like this guy.

Cheers

-don

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ProducerK

8 years ago

I dont think this is limited to warrior forum. They are people trying to rip people off left right and center.

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ProducerK

8 years ago

I got a "scratch ticket" in the mail today with 3 areas where I could scratch and win a prize.
Of course I scratched them and was a "winner". Upon further review on the back, you had to agree to an in home presentation (no purchase required.... haha) before I could be entered in to win a prize. Needless to say, I did not call in the 1800 number for the "prize redemption center", nor do I have any wish to have a high pressure sales person come into my house to try and sell me something that I do not want. This happens every single day to every one of us, everyone is trying to make a buck.

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Regional Warrior

8 years ago

I would be very curious on how Freelancer went if someone sued them! meaning you the customer purchase a WSO from a public listed company who ones this website/forum

And the WSO turns out to be a dud so you decide to sue for selling a fraudulent product
It would be curious to see how that would turn out , because some of the claims are ludicrous

Jason

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Mark Singletary

8 years ago

First off, the OP is off with his figures. He hasn't tried nor does he know the contents of 90% of the offers made here. You know how many WSOs you'd have to buy to know whether 90% was fraudulent or not? Approximately 49,000 by my counting!

Second, I was one of those that supported the change in rules so that income claims weren't allowed.

Seemingly, as a result of that change at least 2 things happened. A lot of people quit running WSOs here because they felt they couldn't sell their stuff under the new rules. That, I'm sure, made a financial hit on FL.

Then because they weren't here for the money anymore, they quit coming for the discussion as well.

Traffic went down. Posts went down. The quality of posts went down. And FL's income went down, I'm sure.

Of course, there may have been other factors in play too.

But I'm not surprised FL allows the income claims to be there after they saw what happened. I'm a little disappointed but apparently they see the old way as better for them. It would be nice, though, to clarify the rules if they have been changed back.

Mark

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

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Zodiax

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

First off, the OP is off with his figures. He hasn't tried nor does he know the contents of 90% of the offers made here. You know how many WSOs you'd have to buy to know whether 90% was fraudulent or not? Approximately 49,000 by my counting!

Second, I was one of those that supported the change in rules so that income claims weren't allowed.

Seemingly, as a result of that change at least 2 things happened. A lot of people quit running WSOs here because they felt they couldn't sell their stuff under the new rules. That, I'm sure, made a financial hit on FL.

Then because they weren't here for the money anymore, they quit coming for the discussion as well.

Traffic went down. Posts went down. The quality of posts went down. And FL's income went down, I'm sure.

Of course, there may have been other factors in play too.

But I'm not surprised FL allows the income claims to be there after they saw what happened. I'm a little disappointed but apparently they see the old way as better for them. It would be nice, though, to clarify the rules if they have been changed back.

Mark

Income claims or not, WSO section sucks now.

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michaelkoehler92

8 years ago

You just have to be cautious of who you buy from

Thanks

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ForumGuru

Banned 8 years ago

Speaking of Warrior fraud, someone needs to ban greyhopper ASAP and delete his replies - I have reported him a couple of times, but his plagiarized posts remain and now he is back again. This jamoke is stealing portions of posts word for word, from myself and others, and re-posting them as his own on the very same threads.

Mods ---> whenever you feel up to it, feel free to get to it.

Thanks

-don

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1 reply

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Zodiax

8 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Speaking of Warrior fraud, someone needs to ban greyhopper ASAP and delete his replies - I have reported him a couple of times, but his plagiarized posts remain and now he is back again. This jamoke is stealing portions of posts word for word, from myself and others, and re-posting them as his own on the very same threads.

Mods ---> whenever you feel up to it, feel free to get to it.

Thanks

-don

Don't bother.

After all, its your fault for not ignoring it. You should feel ashamed for pointing out blatant plagerism.

/Sarcasm

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ForumGuru Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

Don't bother.

After all, its your fault for not ignoring it. You should feel ashamed for pointing out blatant plagerism.

/Sarcasm

I don't know when the powers that be will realize that if they want to improve this forum they need full staff of proactive mods that know what the hell they are doing.

A couple of decent part-time mods is not good enough, not even close.

Cheers

-don
- Thanks
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ForumGuru Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

Don't bother.

They have finally deleted the posts but they did not ban the guy for straight up plagiarism!

Mods ---> you need to engage your brain and do the right thing ----> BAN the user. Members like that guy are not an asset to the forum, quite the contrary --> he is a plagiarizing, copy and paste, content stealing troll helping to destroy this forum.

Serious business here ---> someone needs to hire or obtain some mods that know when to show their teeth. Until this happens, the incessant nonsense posted to these boards will not stop.

Cheers

-don

Edit: As of 12:00 CST the cockroach has been banned.
- Thanks
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Leonhart

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

I mean, why not just come out and say, 'I have a money making scheme that involves ripping people off, want to be a part of it?'

Yes, I agree.

Just like the way you teach people how to rob a bank.

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Zodiax

8 years ago

http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...like-boss.html

This guys offering traffic secrets with a 97% bounce rate in his video lol.

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rocemore 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...like-boss.html

This guys offering traffic secrets with a 97% bounce rate in his video lol.

And rave reviews of his product are from people "who know him personally" and know he is honest........all new accounts lol. I like how they have to consistently say he is an honest marketer lol. It's like that on his other threads as well. Sorry, but everyone who gets taken by him deserves it......It is like a right of passage, if I were to see that sales page back in 2010 when I started I would have believed every word of it. Now, I just laugh because I know how to weed through the bs now that I have a real online business.....and no it wasn't easy or quick.
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ForumGuru

Banned 8 years ago

Gotta love some of his copy though, right? Obviously, it's great stuff, and original too.

And please don't miss this one...

I would be ashamed of myself if I approved that garbage into the section.

[ 1 ] Thanks
3 replies

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BradVert2013

8 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Gotta love some of his copy though, right? Obviously, it's great stuff, and original too.

And please don't miss this one...

I would be ashamed of myself if I approved that garbage into the section.

I got a headache reading that.

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Sven300 8 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

And please don't miss this one...

But it's a good story. You do not agree you have to pay money for good stories?
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nicheblogger75

8 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Gotta love some of his copy though, right? Obviously, it's great stuff, and original too.

And please don't miss this one...

I would be ashamed of myself if I approved that garbage into the section.

I'm not saying that it's alright to sell products like these by any means, but really, anyone who would read that copy and then purchase that product probably deserves to get ripped off!

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ForumGuru

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by nicheblogger75

I'm not saying that it's alright to sell products like these by any means, but really, anyone who would read that copy and then purchase that product probably deserves to get ripped off!

Point taken ---> but point made as well (too much really crappy stuff in the WSO section).

Sales copy that looks like that would never be allowed anywhere near any of my sites. If I were a WF owner, admin, or mod I would be so ashamed and embarrassed upon seeing that horseshi* live in my marketplace surely I would

Talk about driving away new customers, old customers, potential long term and repeat customers, not to mention educated customers...and much needed, legit, marketplace sellers too. Money talks and bullshit walks...I mean flies in the WSO section.

Even if I were hurting for cash I would not resort to allowing masterpieces like that on my site for $20.

Cheers

-don

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michaelswengel

8 years ago

This is true on and off this forum. It's been happening since the dawn of IM, really - and outside of IM as well. It falls on product creators to produce quality products that truly help people, and buyers need to be cautious and evaluate claims. Shame on those who try to take advantage of people, but there is some great stuff in the WSO section.

Thanks
2 replies

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Zodiax

8 years ago

Originally Posted by michaelswengel

This is true on and off this forum. It's been happening since the dawn of IM, really - and outside of IM as well. It falls on product creators to produce quality products that truly help people, and buyers need to be cautious and evaluate claims. Shame on those who try to take advantage of people, but there is some great stuff in the WSO section.

I know it's the buyers fault, this happens everywhere,[insert lame excuse here].

Stop making excuses and avoiding reality.

it's delusional.

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rochelle23

8 years ago

[DELETED]

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ForumGuru

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by rochelle23

Thanks for the wonderful reply. However, I am entitled to free speech and do not sell anything nor am I promoting some personal blog.

~Cheers

Hello,

Free speech laws do not exist on a moderated forum...

If you care about the health of the forum, and care for it's members and visitors, and want to help try to curb the steep decline in traffic to this place, then you should care quite a bit about the quality in the WF marketplace.

Free speech is not he issue here, the current quality of the content being allowed into the WSO section is.

Cheers

-don

Thanks
1 reply

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rochelle23

8 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Hello,

Free speech laws do not exist on a moderated forum...

If you care about the health of the forum, and care for it's members and visitors, and want to help try to curb the steep decline in traffic to this place, then you should care quite a bit about the quality in the WF marketplace.

Free speech is not he issue here, the current quality of the content being allowed into the WSO section is.

Cheers

-don

Wonderful. I will keep this in mind.

Don, you not only made my day you made my decade........ lol.

~Rochelle

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Daniel Evans

8 years ago

The forum isn't dying. That's to say, it won't reach a point of 'death'.

It's just being left to naturally shed its innapropriate content in preparation for the delayed merge.

The forum could be stripped bare and all members erased and it still wouldn't make a difference because there's a million and one Freelancer members who are going to jump right in and populate it with relevant content which will serve as a major asset for the main Freelancer platform.

Thanks
1 reply

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Zodiax

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel Evans

The forum isn't dying. That's to say, it won't reach a point of 'death'.

It's just being left to naturally shed its innapropriate content in preparation for the delayed merge.

The forum could be stripped bare and all members erased and it still wouldn't make a difference because there's a million and one Freelancer members who are going to jump right in and populate it with relevant content which will serve as a major asset for the main Freelancer platform.

The forum is dying point blank.

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Daniel Evans 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

The forum is dying point blank.

Unfortunately, you didn't address the actual content of my post which highlights exactly why it isn't.

Whilst you can't be deterred from your preoccupation branding all things damned, you can be advised that Freelancers acquisitions won't be without crystal clear strategies.
- Thanks
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- MValmont 8 years ago
  
  There are a lot of really good products in the WSO section....
  
  The real problem is this: people who don't take action. People with thousands of posts on this forum but don't take action. These people are the real problem in my opinion because most of the time these are the people who write the most and they influence the newbies the most but THEY DON'T MAKE MONEY.
  
  I have a WSO.
  
  Want to know something fascinating? Only about 20% of the people that buy EVEN WATCH THE FIRST VIDEO. Then these people create threads the day after asking how to make money online. The truth is these people are dumb. They will never make it because their mindset is absolutely weak.
  
  There are hundreds of ways to make money online and you know what ? THEY ALL WORK. The problem is the dumb person trying to make it work. People just don't focus enough. They don't commit, they don't focus, and therefore they don't have results.
  
  Why do you think the IM marketing gurus are creating new programs with the same content every year? Because most people that bought the first one DID NOT TAKE ACTION, and will buy the next one because it makes them feel like they took action ( I bought something, so i'm taking action), but in reality, they are not doing shit. The only thing they are doing is pumping their posts counts on forums instead of creating a business.
  
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  Profit Traveler Banned 8 years ago
  
  I was reading a comment about Zuckerburg and so many angles to view his story.
  
  You could say he is up there with Steve Jobs and you could say he is a opportunistic, untrustworthy, SOB for not only stealing the Facebook project but had to get sued to give the Winklevoss Twins any proceeds and I am sure they are still kicking themselves for what they settled for.
  
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  Profit Traveler Banned 8 years ago
  
  Really for every online innovation 2 hours later there will be people figuring out how to exploit it.
  
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ForumGuru

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Sven300

But it's a good story. You do not agree you have to pay money for good stories?

I suppose, that is if you don't mind almost incoherent bullcopy.

I tell a lot of good stories, most of them are my own, and very rarely do I charge for them.

Cheers

-don

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TheArtfulDodger2012

8 years ago

What we need in the industry is a vetting website. Call it GranmaMartha.com. Granma accepts system seller products and tests them. How much money Granma manages to make in 60 days is recorded on a master list.

The end result would be systems ranked by effectiveness and simplicity.

Hey, that's not a bad idea.....

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Zodiax

8 years ago

Originally Posted by TheArtfulDodger2012

What we need in the industry is a vetting website. Call it GranmaMartha.com. Granma accepts system seller products and tests them. How much money Granma manages to make in 60 days is recorded on a master list.

The end result would be systems ranked by effectiveness and simplicity.

Hey, that's not a bad idea.....

Maybe you can list your product that promises to make you up to $4837.93 PER DAY.

My bank robbery strategy is proven to generate income.

Thanks
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TheArtfulDodger2012 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

Maybe you can list your product that promises to make you up to $4837.93 PER DAY.

My bank robbery strategy is proven to generate income.

Thanks for the plug. Yes, the method I am promoting would pass the granma test with flying colors.
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rochelle23

8 years ago

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I believe many people are doing whatever it takes to feed their families even if that means, "Selling snake oil or selling the dream."

The facts show us according to the ( BLS) Bureau of Labor and Statistics that 41% of Americans are unemployed. That means 1 in 3 people are unemployed.

Furthermore according to Feeding America 1 in 5 kids face starvation everyday. These facts are just within the United States not including other parts of the world.

This leaves many desperate people who are willing to do desperate things to eat and feed their families. Deceptive marketing tactics have been going on for decades and will continue to go in.

This is unfortunate nevertheless those yearning for the, "Magic Bullet to Success," must be willing to do the necessary research and homework of who they are doing business with.

Truth be told people who want the, "Magic Bullet to Success," have to become extremely cautious and wiser of where what they are spending their money on. Every PENNY. Even if it is for $1 or a $9 trial offer.

~Rochelle

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ForumGuru

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by rochelle23

. Many people are doing whatever it takes to feed their families even if that means, "Selling snake oil or selling the dream."

The problem is, 100% pure unfiltered snake oil is not a product or service that is allowed in the WSO section.

That's the point of this thread...too much snake oil and worse has been allowed into the section This ain't a free-for-all on your personal website... This is supposed to be a professional marketplace --> rules and guidelines are supposed to be adhered too. Unfortunately, for the paying public at large, and most likely the WF bottom line, whoever is approving the WSOs is really dropping the ball to the serious detriment of almost all involved.

Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace - Announcements in Forum : Warrior Special Offers

Cheers

-don

Thanks
1 reply

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rochelle23

8 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

The problem is, 100% pure unfiltered snake oil is not a product or service that is allowed in the WSO section.

That's the point of this thread...too much snake oil and worse has been allowed into the section This ain't a free-for-all on your personal website... This is supposed to be a professional marketplace --> rules and guidelines are supposed to be adhered too. Unfortunately, for the paying public at large, and most likely the WF bottom line, whoever is approving the WSOs is really dropping the ball to the serious detriment of almost all involved.

Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace - Announcements in Forum : Warrior Special Offers

Cheers

-don

Thanks for the wonderful reply. However, I am entitled to my personal opinion and do not sell anything nor am I promoting some personal blog.

I do not need any forum to do so.

Cheers

~Rochelle

Thanks

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michaelswengel

8 years ago

Originally Posted by rochelle23

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

To be honest with you unfortunately look at the economy many people are scrambling to keep food on their table. According to the( BLS) Bureau of Labor and Statistics 41% of Americans are unemployed. that means 1 in 3 people don't want to work are unable to work. Many people are doing whatever it takes to feed their families even if that means, "Selling snake oil or selling the dream."

That's no justification for scamming people though.

Thanks
1 reply

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rochelle23 8 years ago

Originally Posted by michaelswengel

That's no justification for scamming people though.

My response is by no means justifying scamming people. Wow, why don't you tell that do the people who promote these ridiculous offers. Oh my goodness, lol (rolling my eyes). Lol. Another day in paradise.

~Rochelle
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BradVert2013

8 years ago

Originally Posted by rochelle23

This is unfortunate nevertheless those yearning for the, "Magic Bullet to Success," must be willing to do the necessary research and homework of who they are doing business with.
~Rochelle

This is a really important point. People want easy answers and solutions to their problems. It seems to be human nature. Those who are good at selling snake oil are the ones who know how to tap into people's desire for a quick fix. I think desperation plays a part. People will look for anything to help them achieve [insert desired goal here] regardless of how legitimate it is.

As long as people are looking for easy answers, fraud and spam will continue to proliferate on the internet.

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Melody

8 years ago

It's not just here though - one of the W+ WSOTDs this week touted a 'new underground traffic source' for highly targeted free traffic....PINTEREST!!

Seriously? New?? Underground?? Only if you have been living on Mars for the last few years.

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ForumGuru

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Melody

It's not just here though - one of the W+ WSOTDs this week touted a 'new underground traffic source' for highly targeted free traffic....PINTEREST!!

Seriously? New?? Underground?? Only if you have been living on Mars for the last few years.

So true...but we care about, and are discussing the quality of the WSO section here. The WSO section has posted rules and guidelines and an approval process --> it would be sooooo nice if the rules and guidelines were enforced.

Cheers

-don

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Melody

8 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

So true...but we care about, and are discussing the quality of the WSO section here. The WSO section has posted rules and guidelines and an approval process --> it would be sooooo nice if the rules and guidelines were enforced.

Cheers

-don

And this is why the WF has lost so much of it's value. We used to have real open dialogue here.

My comment WAS on topic because I was pointing out that this is NOT simply an issue with WSOs, sorry if it did not meet YOUR definition of the topic.

So I guess ForumGuru is now in charge here and is now telling us all what we can and cannot say?

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ForumGuru Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Melody

And this is why the WF has lost so much of it's value. We used to have real open dialogue here.

Hogwash!

My comment WAS on topic because I was pointing out that this is NOT simply an issue with WSOs, sorry if it did not meet YOUR definition of the topic.

On topic or off, Melody, no need to get steamed. This thread is about the crappy content being allowed into the WSO section...not crappy content found elsewhere on the net. We all know crap can be found almost everywhere!

This is an exercise in open dialog, and if you have read the thread, you saw several members mention the same thing you did....few, if any, had beef. It's an open dialog, remember?

The point of this thread is that the WSO section needs serious improvement...and offers that should not be allowed in according to the posted rules --> are being approved.

The forum has not declined due to a lack of "real open dialog"...it has declined because most of big guns don't promote products in the WSO section anymore...and we all know those members and their minions drove a ton of traffic to other WF sections as well.

They do not list here anymore for many obvious reasons...if they don't list here, they don't participate much here.

We have seen this trend developing for years...

Add to that--> the relatively recent invasion of link spammers, sig spammers, hordes of no-nothing newbs, and truckloads of barely able to write English newbs incessantly bombarding the forum with spam and nonsense one-liners, and what do you have?

A serious decline in traffic, experienced members, and high quality new members...that's what you have..

This forum is not moderated by marketing and forum savvy peeps anymore. It's moderated by a lot of people that don't have a clue on what a sig or link spammer is (etc.), and that fact is also helping to drive quality members and traffic away.

I never intended to offend you, and please feel free to open a discussion thread on real open dialog if you really believe that is what is driving legit vendors and traffic away.

I just want to see some improvement in the quality of content here, especially in the marketplace.

Cheers

-don
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BigFrank

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

There seems to be a rise in the number of deceptive businesses.

All one has to do is go through the WSO section and see pages full of threads promising 'X amount of money in just 7 short days'.

Why do people here think that anonymity and the internet makes decietful practices less illegal?

Like this thread asking how to sell people fake traffic-http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...t-traffic.html

I mean, why not just come out and say, 'I have a money making scheme that involves ripping people off, want to be a part of it?'

It shouldn't be hard to sell.

I mean it's almost disgraceful that people would rather make their living on fraud than honest business.

/End Rant

Don't be a hater. Even thieves need to eat.

Cheers. - Frank

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Melody

8 years ago

Don -

You know what the definition of WSOTD is, I don't need to spell it out to you. The entire concept of WSOTD was built upon the quality products that USED to be found in the WF. It may not be technically owned by the WF - but they are still promoting the WSO Of The Day to a huge list of people, and I find it personally very disappointing to see the types of WSOs that are being elevated to the WSOTD status.

Not only is it an endorsement of the product but even worse, it says that it is okay to create products that are nothing more than re-hashed garbage with sales letters that rarely come close to the content.

In the last month, I purchased several WSOTDs as I like to see a product before I promote it - and there was only one that we actually went on to promote. One of the top sellers also has a 15% refund rate. And the truth is......I am surprised it is that low, the product was so bad.

So the quality of WSOTDs is indeed directly related to the quality of the products being approved as WSOs - and it is a shame that it has been allowed to happen.

Melody

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ForumGuru

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Melody

Don -

You know what the definition of WSOTD is, I don't need to spell it out to you. The entire concept of WSOTD was built upon the quality products that USED to be found in the WF.

Unfortunately, that concept was lost somewhere along the way, I believe....

I've received hundreds of those WSOTD emails during my time here....and like you, from what I have deduced, many were not excellent products at all. They were converting products that Lantz could make money on at any cost. And yes, many of us know why some of that stuff converts...and it ain't because it's good.

Many of us realize a conversion does not automatically mean quality...

It may not be technically owned by the WF - but they are still promoting the WSO Of The Day to a huge list of people, and I find it personally very disappointing to see the types of WSOs that are being elevated to the WSOTD status.

Agreed. You do know Lantz and WF are severing integration ties, correct?

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...um-ending.html

Not only is it an endorsement of the product but even worse, it says that it is okay to create products that are nothing more than re-hashed garbage with sales letters that rarely come close to the content.

I agree, it sucks bad.

In the last month, I purchased several WSOTDs as I like to see a product before I promote it - and there was only one that we actually went on to promote. One of the top sellers also has a 15% refund rate. And the truth is......I am surprised it is that low, the product was so bad.

I don't believe I have purchased a WSOTD in probably three years...I quit clicking the WSOTD links once I found out the products were quite often a waste of time and money. I don't do any affiliate promotion through ML, so I have not had to deal with bogus WSOTDs in that way.

So the quality of WSOTDs is indeed directly related to the quality of the products being approved as WSOs - and it is a shame that it has been allowed to happen.

Well stated.

Cheers

-don

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nicheblogger75

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Melody

In the last month, I purchased several WSOTDs as I like to see a product before I promote it - and there was only one that we actually went on to promote. One of the top sellers also has a 15% refund rate. And the truth is......I am surprised it is that low, the product was so bad.

I feel your pain there. Luckily, I am a top 1% Warrior Plus affiliate and so simply showing a vendor my WP profile usually gets me a review copy of the product I'm thinking of promoting.

That being said, sometimes it takes me HOURS (sometimes even DAYS) to find a decent product to promote! Don't get me wrong, most of the sales pages look wonderful, but when it comes down to the product - watch out!

If I had to purchase every single product I thought about promoting, I would have been out of business a long time ago!

This is a pretty scary thought because I realize that the majority of all affiliates will promote products they have not personally reviewed.

If you think about it that's a HUGE problem because this type of thing will only add to the already ballooning mistrust that consumers have when it comes to IM.

In the end, it's going to make it harder for affiliates (good and bad) to make sales.

In the past 3 years I've noticed that it's much harder to get conversions. And as far as "relationship" building as it pertains to email marketing - that's pretty much NONEXISTENT.

It's basically like this: "Welcome to my list. Here's a great product. Buy it so I can make a commission. If not then unsubscribe so I don't have to pay for you to be on my list."

I guess that's a rant for another day, though.

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john129

Banned 8 years ago

I found out the vast majority of the sellers are just concern about their profit and sales.

they dont care about the people who use their product make money or not.

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RedLantern

8 years ago

I know this is more related to fraud but if any long term reliable members can private message me some WSO for a beginner worth looking at I would be very much appreciated, I am so overwhelmed by all the offers and I imagine 95% are just rubbish and judging by what gets posted it really turns me off.

Make $10,000 in your first month as I say if it was that easy everyone would be doing it.

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Zodiax

8 years ago

Originally Posted by RedLantern

I know this is more related to fraud but if any long term reliable members can private message me some WSO for a beginner worth looking at I would be very much appreciated, I am so overwhelmed by all the offers and I imagine 95% are just rubbish and judging by what gets posted it really turns me off.

Make $10,000 in your first month as I say if it was that easy everyone would be doing it.

There is no WSO worth looking at, aside from the ones that are going to spam your inbox.

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ForumGuru Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

There is no WSO worth looking at, aside from the ones that are going to spam your inbox.

C'mon man! A few of us post some good ones!

Cheers

-don
- Thanks
- 1 reply
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- Zodiax 8 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ForumGuru
  
  C'mon man! A few of us post some good ones!
  
  Cheers
  
  -don
  
  It should be one that you got a review copy for.
  
  Thanks
  
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  'I hated every minute of training, but I said, 'Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion'
  -Muhammad Ali
  
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discrat

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

There is no WSO worth looking at, aside from the ones that are going to spam your inbox.

Then you aren't looking close enough. I know at Warrior Plus ( WSOs there) I promote some stellar programs that are worth ten times the amount they are charging. You need to look at the Vendors. Paul Nicholls, Matt Bacak, Eric Louviere are a few I have purchased from and promoted

- Robert Andrew

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Zodiax

8 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Then you aren't looking close enough. I know at Warrior Plus ( WSOs there) I promote some stellar programs that are worth ten times the amount they are charging. You need to look at the Vendors. Paul Nicholls, Matt Bacak, Eric Louviere are a few I have purchased from and promoted

- Robert Andrew

And they are getting less in less in number.

The traffic is down and the quality is down to, and alaister moved on.

There is no hope.

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discrat 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

And they are getting less in less in number.

The traffic is down and the quality is down to, and alaister moved on.

There is no hope.

And the sky is falling
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ScooterDaMan

8 years ago

It's nice to see someone willing to call a spade a spade. There is absolutely no such thing as a push button way to profits. Anyone who is really making money in this business will tell you that they busted their butt becoming successful. If you see anyone promising easy riches, run! There are undoubtedly some who are making money selling people dreams who have never done it, themselves (until they got all of the suckers to buy into their scam, that is).

I make a substantial part of my income helping coach eCommerce newbies build profitable sites. One of the first things so many of them mention is the hundreds of thousands they want to make per year. Can it be done? Sure, but I tell them I am not going to blow smoke up their shorts and promise any sort of income. If I knew ahead of time what a website was going to make, I'd make millions each year. I tell them if they actually put in the research, have the perseverance to overcome obstacles, a willingness to look everywhere for answers to questions they have and put in real, honest, hard work (and believe me, like anything in life, hard work is what separates the winners and the losers), they will make money. How much is anybody's guess. It could be hundreds per month; it could be thousands. I only wish I really knew for sure. I've never built a website that didn't make at least some profit each month. Sometimes its nice bill paying money; sometimes it is quit your job money. Eventually you hit the right "quit your job" niche if you keep trying new niches.

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Zodiax

8 years ago

Originally Posted by ScooterDaMan

It's nice to see someone willing to call a spade a spade. There is absolutely no such thing as a push button way to profits. Anyone who is really making money in this business will tell you that they busted their butt becoming successful. If you see anyone promising easy riches, run! There are undoubtedly some who are making money selling people dreams who have never done it, themselves (until they got all of the suckers to buy into their scam, that is).

I make a substantial part of my income helping coach eCommerce newbies build profitable sites. One of the first things so many of them mention is the hundreds of thousands they want to make per year. Can it be done? Sure, but I tell them I am not going to blow smoke up their shorts and promise any sort of income. If I knew ahead of time what a website was going to make, I'd make millions each year. I tell them if they actually put in the research, have the perseverance to overcome obstacles, a willingness to look everywhere for answers to questions they have and put in real, honest, hard work (and believe me, like anything in life, hard work is what separates the winners and the losers), they will make money. How much is anybody's guess. It could be hundreds per month; it could be thousands. I only wish I really knew for sure. I've never built a website that didn't make at least some profit each month. Sometimes its nice bill paying money; sometimes it is quit your job money. Eventually you hit the right "quit your job" niche if you keep trying new niches.

People here's Idea of 'hard work' is working a few hours per day.

But you need to work 65-80 hours a week consistently.

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ScooterDaMan 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

People here's Idea of 'hard work' is working a few hours per day.

But you need to work 65-80 hours a week consistently.

No doubt. 80 hours is a short work week for me!
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- Daniel Evans 8 years ago
  
  Some people, I'm sure, simply value what they put into time, rather than time itself, lest they could count whining on forums as a working hour.
  
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TheArtfulDodger2012 8 years ago

Originally Posted by ScooterDaMan

There is absolutely no such thing as a push button way to profits.

Here's another one: "Guitar groups are on the way out". Decca Records, 1962, upon rejecting The Beatles.

I suspect that physicists the world over believed that there was no elegantly simple way to mathematically express the relationship between matter and energy prior to Einstein coming up with E = mc2.

More accurate to state that none, as yet, has been found.
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cstrickbusiness

8 years ago

[DELETED]

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RedLantern

8 years ago

Although I'm learning I try do to things this way at the moment, I'm in no hurry to jump into buying WSO last thing I want to do is buy ones with empty promises and be disappointed probably turn me off this area! If we are going to do it will try do it right the first time! Set myself up for success not failure.

- Learn what avenues there are for making money online
- Gain the knowledge / study in those areas
- Pick the area I think I'd enjoy or good for a beginner
- Look for WSO I like implement it, give it a chance to work, see if I can make it better or do it better
- Hopefully make some money
- If make no money or not interested in that area look for another avenue
- repeat process

Eventually I am hoping to find something that ticks the boxes for me

but I know it will take time and I'm prepared for that!

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Zodiax

8 years ago

Originally Posted by RedLantern

Although I'm learning I try do to things this way at the moment, I'm in no hurry to jump into buying WSO last thing I want to do is buy ones with empty promises and be disappointed probably turn me off this area! If we are going to do it will try do it right the first time! Set myself up for success not failure.

- Learn what avenues there are for making money online
- Gain the knowledge / study in those areas
- Pick the area I think I'd enjoy or good for a beginner
- Look for WSO I like implement it, give it a chance to work, see if I can make it better or do it better
- Hopefully make some money
- If make no money or not interested in that area look for another avenue
- repeat process

Eventually I am hoping to find something that ticks the boxes for me

but I know it will take time and I'm prepared for that!

Look into Mobile app development.

Booming industry.

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ScooterDaMan 8 years ago

For me, eCommerce was the path to real income but comes with more obstacles and a pretty steep learning curve. I am affiliated with an eCommerce course as a writer and consultant but try my best not to self-promote; therefore, I am not going to do it here. I know others who have been successful using the techniques discussed at mywifequitherjob.com but it's not my kind of gig (I'm not affiliated in the least with Steve Chou but he is very well respected). There is more than one way to make money online but they all take a lot of work - certainly far more than any of these get rich quick places pretend. The only people getting rich from the get rich quick sites are the people who own the sites and the affiliates who will promote anything to make a buck.
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Devilfish168

8 years ago

so far I haven't come across a WSO can make me within one day see at least 100 dollars

profits

To be fair some WSO is good..it take times to see results ( depend how you do it ) Hard work of course.

So far the best one is a app " black hat way to earn from Adsense "

sadly the seller go MIA after many buyers claim the app can't work anymore as twitter ban cron service.

basically this not app , just a website to for " entertain " twitter users to check how much their account worth ....than you add Adsense ad on the page

the result is impression as everyone start sharing your page ...

i still remember within just one week my daily Adsense account increase daily very fast.

( By right this can cause your Adsense account ban no doubt about it )

in the end as mention due to twitter ban the cron service ..this WSO just short live...

next it does create a lot " rubbish " back end in your host as it left many data . As my host tech check for me a lot data clog .

OK ...if anyone know a WSO can make me one day instantly see profit LOL tell me.

so far That is the ONLY WSO I witness a instant result within one day but is Black hat way. If you dare to risk your Adsense account.

but lucky my Adsense account still around.

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jobdollarr

8 years ago

Some people do not appreciate the upright.

Facebook groups such as the post 50 to $ 25.

Or I'll post to facebook groups 9,000,000 to $ 25

Both ads have the same results in the same way.
However, only a different headline.

People are more likely to buy a product that sounds good to be true

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mrdcw

8 years ago

I've actually made money off of services here. I got burned the first time, but I really didn't know what was involved. I have a successful side business with strong cash flow that has subsidized a ton of projects, managed by so called scam artist on WF. If you have $200-$300 a month to pump into something for a year, you'll get a good ROI. I started with nothing but have ecommerce making 60k net net now, and now I'm diversifying to affiliate marketing, classified sites, etc.....When I get my portfolio up to 100k net net my wife is going to quit her job. I honestly think if I focus on building my portfolio out for the next 5-10 years, I'll be making 250k plus a year. It's really not that hard, its just time consuming, and it cost money to make money. Granted it took me two years to get to 60k net per year. But once you have the cash flow it gets much much easier.

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Zodiax

8 years ago

Originally Posted by mrdcw

I've actually made money off of services here. I got burned the first time, but I really didn't know what was involved. I have a successful side business with strong cash flow that has subsidized a ton of projects, managed by so called scam artist on WF. If you have $200-$300 a month to pump into something for a year, you'll get a good ROI. I started with nothing but have ecommerce making 60k net net now, and now I'm diversifying to affiliate marketing, classified sites, etc.....When I get my portfolio up to 100k net net my wife is going to quit her job. I honestly think if I focus on building my portfolio out for the next 5-10 years, I'll be making 250k plus a year. It's really not that hard, its just time consuming, and it cost money to make money. Granted it took me two years to get to 60k net per year. But once you have the cash flow it gets much much easier.

Flaunt it 'till you lose it bro.

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samjaynz

8 years ago

To be honest it feels a bit like this whole forum is dying. When I started posting back in 08 there was a lot more activity and good discussions. Now it's just people trying to hawk their WSOs or the same regurgitated threads.

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RedLantern

8 years ago

I imagine people get caught up in the hype of the flashy sales type pitch about making so much money and then when it comes to doing the actual work they just can't be bothered, again their mentality is buy a WSO for $10 do no work and make $5000 a month.

I messaged two people selling a WSO and didn't get one reply from either of them, if they are to lazy to respond to my PM then try build a relationship with a potential customer then I won't buy their WSO.

MValmont - What is your WSO? is it beginner friendly if it is let me know so I can take a look

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[RyanMilligan]

Banned 8 years ago

If I have an income stream that's making me 10K a month, why would I show others how to do it and risk it getting saturated.

There is the possibility that you sell a large amount of copies then have a well profiting sales funnel but if that method gets saturated it isn't going to work for a high % of the buyers and then the profits made from future email marketing to them can be waived goodbye.

Teaching a skill products, services, certain membership sites and coaching are all fairly reasonable things to have promoted but just because you had one lucky CPA campaign and made $9843.28 in 6 days and 3 hours doesn't mean you have a ten grand a month steady income.

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Zodiax

8 years ago

Originally Posted by [RyanMilligan]

If I have an income stream that's making me 10K a month, why would I show others how to do it and risk it getting saturated.

There is the possibility that you sell a large amount of copies then have a well profiting sales funnel but if that method gets saturated it isn't going to work for a high % of the buyers and then the profits made from future email marketing to them can be waived goodbye.

Teaching a skill products, services, certain membership sites and coaching are all fairly reasonable things to have promoted but just because you had one lucky CPA campaign and made $9843.28 in 6 days and 3 hours doesn't mean you have a ten grand a month steady income.

A good businessman doesn't worry about saturation.

He can build a good business anywhere.

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[RyanMilligan]

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

A good businessman doesn't worry about saturation.

He can build a good business anywhere.

A stupid man gives away all his secrets.

If I am Mr Miagi (sp?) I do not tell Daniel son my weak spot so that the apprentice becomes the master.

Silly example but a good businessman takes hold of gaps in a market.. Yeah Mark Zuckerberg would have made it big anywhere but nowhere near what he's accomplished with Facebook.

There was a gap that social media at the time had, he filled it, he becomes a billionaire or at least majority shareholder in a billion dollar company in his early 20's.

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Daniel Evans

8 years ago

Originally Posted by [RyanMilligan]

A stupid man gives away all his secrets.

If I am Mr Miagi (sp?) I do not tell Daniel son my weak spot so that the apprentice becomes the master.

Silly example but a good businessman takes hold of gaps in a market.. Yeah Mark Zuckerberg would have made it big anywhere but nowhere near what he's accomplished with Facebook.

There was a gap that social media at the time had, he filled it, he becomes a billionaire or at least majority shareholder in a billion dollar company in his early 20's.

MMO orientated WSOs / products needn't involve methods which pose risk of saturating. Methods can involve the entire populous of the Internet as a target market.

Facebook founders didn't aim to fill a market gap. It was a project that was established purely as an internal asset for Harvard University students (then other universities before an unplanned decision to go public years later).

Externally, MySpace, despite prioritising music, was dominating globally with the same concept at the time and it continued to do so for quite a while after Facebooks' public launch. It was a state of competition with a company who already had the stronghold in the social media arena.

If you were Mr Miyagi, you'd be calling your supposed son 'Daniel San', which, in that context is a Japanese suffix for 'Mr'.

Knowledge of every master and every Daniel.

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[RyanMilligan]

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel Evans

MMO orientated WSOs / products needn't involve methods which pose risk of saturating. Methods can involve the entire populous of the Internet as a target market.

Facebook founders didn't aim to fill a market gap. It was a project that was established purely as an internal asset for Harvard University students (then other universities before an unplanned decision to go public years later).

Externally, MySpace, despite prioritising music, was dominating globally with the same concept at the time and it continued to do so for quite a while after Facebooks' public launch. It was a state of competition with a company who already had the stronghold in the social media arena.

If you were Mr Miyagi, you'd be calling your supposed son 'Daniel San', which, in that context is a Japanese suffix for 'Mr'.

Knowledge of every master and every Daniel.

I agree and disagree. You cant build a business around methods that make you some money then die out. Well.. You can if you really want but personally steady income is what you want to be coming from all your work.

You can't saturate a skill/service, you just have to get better at it if more people offer it or you have to offer your skill in a way others don't.. (cheaper, constant revisions for free etc) but you can easily saturate a quick cash social media marketing method.

That's just irrelevant Facebook talk. I'm talking about Zuckerberg and he did fill a gap in the market or Facebook would have never became what it has. Simple as that, 'people came when it arrived' because people wanted something like that but didn't even know it.

Anything successful has filled a market gap. You can't argue with that - Even if someone comes along with something exactly the same as something/someone else but does it a little better - whatever it is - they filled a gap, they improved an already existing need.

WSO part, I agree. I actually think that the most useful information products that can be bought teach you something that will never change. About human beings, or how to fix a specific fridge for example.

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IdeasThatExcel 8 years ago

Originally Posted by [RyanMilligan]

If I have an income stream that's making me 10K a month, why would I show others how to do it and risk it getting saturated.

#1 bit of advice for new people here... Stop and think if you discovered a method to make $1,000 day with no real work involved why would you sell the method for $9 WF!!!!
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umc

8 years ago

I bought something that was absolutely terrible recently, left a fair but negative review, and then some follow up negativity as things progressed. I was offered a refund and asked to remove my last comments. I removed them, and then the seller apparently managed to get someone here to remove my initial review as well. I will not purchase here again. Fraudsters are allowed to sell again and again here while honest feedback is taken down. If only I had read feedback from past WSO offerings I wouldn't have bought that one in the first place. I've purchased here for years and some are good, some are bad, but some are just ridiculous. To remove my honest feedback with real numbers just because it might discourage some from buying here is total crap. Their interest is purely making money, they don't care about quality or protecting buyers.

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Mark Singletary

8 years ago

Why not complain to management? Maybe it was one mod's discretion and they made a mistake versus a forum wide conspiracy to rip people off by not protecting buyers?

Why not post your story, including everything from purchase to refund to deleted posts again? You have a right, according to forum rules, to leave an honest but negative review as long as you don't get into name calling or over the top in your negativity.

Mark

Originally Posted by umc

I bought something that was absolutely terrible recently, left a fair but negative review, and then some follow up negativity as things progressed. I was offered a refund and asked to remove my last comments. I removed them, and then the seller apparently managed to get someone here to remove my initial review as well. I will not purchase here again. Fraudsters are allowed to sell again and again here while honest feedback is taken down. If only I had read feedback from past WSO offerings I wouldn't have bought that one in the first place. I've purchased here for years and some are good, some are bad, but some are just ridiculous. To remove my honest feedback with real numbers just because it might discourage some from buying here is total crap. Their interest is purely making money, they don't care about quality or protecting buyers.

Thanks

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mikec513

8 years ago

It does seem there is a lot of the How I made ____ in a "certain amount of time" with this "trick/system"
It is very refreshing when someone actually takes you through the "system" they used and where or how they got traffic to their offer, and how they selected whatever it is they were selling.The guides seem to be lacking in some piece of it, with most sellers now.