Killing Other People's WSO: Cool Or Not Cool?

by Tim Whiston 49 replies
Update: I messed up on my poll questions and ended up not having a "cool" and "not cool" option. I realized this and went to edit but didn't see a way of changing my actual questions. SORRY about that.

I'm sort of floored by the posts I see people making in response to the WSOs. I realize most people here are not earning a living online but many are, and it's mind-boggling how people can make some of these posts and even think they're remotely close to "ok".

I KNOW: PART OF FORUM MARKETING IS ACCEPTING THIS SORT OF THING. THE GOOD DEFINITELY OUTWEIGHS THE BAD I JUST THOUGHT IT WOULD MAKE A GOOD DISCUSSION.

A few recent examples, made generic to avoid pointing fingers.

I saw a WSO for a killer software application. It was priced at just $47 - retail value $67. First reply post read:

"Yeah but at such a high price do we get resell rights with it?"

I saw a WSO a while back (I think actually in the old forum) offering a very nice ecover design package. A reply was made with something like "Hey that's nice but so-and-so (hyperlink to competitors' site) is offering that for x dollars cheaper." Following were a handful of posts discussing the friggin' competitor's design service!

I'm being serious!

Recently in one of my WSO posts a fellow dropped a complete link in for a free, competing product.

Again I'm 100% serious.

Now I know already what the less experienced people (who aren't making money online) will say. "If you can't handle honest feedback don't post a WSO!"

It's easy to have this kind of "high standard" when nothing is on the line, in other words when you aren't making sales in the first place why worry about things that could knock a few off the bottom line? And I'm not talking about "feedback" I'm talking about questions and comments that are flat out harmful.

It's one thing if you get ripped off to go back in and post comments to help other buyers. But come on... I would never post something in another member's WSO that could possibly detract from their ability to make sales. This is what the PM function is for!

I think it is sooo rude and frankly ameteurish to barge into a thread where another marketer is running a paid promotion and start handing out links to the competition, complaining about the price, etc.

This is not part of the actual rule re: casugin harm. I honestly don't think a lot of these people are trying to bust up a WSO; it's just a matter of (IMO) being inconsiderate.

Maybe nobody agrees with me. But I feel really strongly about this and would just love to know what other Warriors of various experience levels think.

Either way I'll keep using the WSO feature weekly. It adds a good chunk of money to my weekly/monthly cash flow and I'm glad we have access to it!
#main internet marketing discussion forum #cool #killing #people #wso
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
    I agree with you Tim. That's called being a hater or an idiot.

    Their not just killing the WSO, their killing potential relationships with the poster and anyone who reads their comments.

    I think on sitepoint, you can delete someone's comments from your post if you're trying to sell something. They should have that option here as well.

    If you think a WSO is a scam, you can report it and express your opinion privately.
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  • Profile picture of the author sparrow
    Tim

    I with you on this, I think most the bozos who do this do this out of ignorance, lately seems many of them are surfacing.

    Then you have the other side of the coin of the malicious posters.

    You are not imagining this I observed it myself same feelings abou it.

    Ed
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  • Profile picture of the author SusanUSA
    Here are the WSO rules for making posts:

    UPDATED: Anyone caught trying to purposefully harm another persons WSO will be removed from this forum permanently. If you bought the WSO you have a right to comment on it. However, if you have not bought it you have no right to say anything at all about it. You have no basis on which to even give an opinion one way or the other.

    If you think someone is trying to harm your WSO on purpose just PM admin here in the forum.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    It's pretty clear that unless you buy a product first, you have no right to comment one way or the other . . .
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  • Profile picture of the author Carol666
    I agree Tim,

    If you don't have something good to say you shouldn't say anything.

    However I think a question asking for more details about a product, if you are allowed to install a software product on more than one domain, or if it includes resell rights are acceptable.

    Carol
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  • It's very difficult to work out exactly where the line is. For instance, there are some WSOs that look like they're offering a great deal to start with, but then by looking a little deeper it's not clear exactly what's being offered, or if the product is original, or there may be some other ambiguity.

    As a potential purchaser I think it's only right to ask for clarifications where necessary.

    Because I think that the answers may be invaluable to other potential buyers I would always ask these via the thread, rather than through using the PM function.

    On the positive side, this gives the seller another chance to publicise their product.

    I tend to think that sellers would prefer their WSO to get some attention, rather than being ignored because people can't find all the answers that they need before purchasing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tim Whiston
      Yeah it is hard to define the line. This is really just a philosophical convo more than anything.

      I think what Carol posted are good examples of appropriate questions for instance.

      I don't refrain from asking any questions in public. But I would not say something like...

      "Hey Jimbo you were giving this away for free to your list last month. Will you be doing that again soon?"

      Again just my opinion and wanted to get some feedback from others.
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  • Profile picture of the author graphicsgenie
    I think each WSO should be taken individually. Normally if I had a question that could be construed as possibly damaging I would always use the PM function.

    If I knew the poster was a scammer and had scammed me and 'more than likely' going to scam possibly new people I wouldnt think twice about posting, rule or no rule.

    Thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author John Ritz
      Not all of these posts are intended to be harmful, although they can indeed be just that.

      Sometimes the poster is just not paying attention or a bit on the green side.

      For example, I had a MRR WSO a while back, and someone posted in my WSO thread that so-and-so was only selling it for $X (much cheaper than me). Now that seller was well within his rights to do so. He purchased MRR from me and sold it cheaper than I did.

      But the poster didn't need to point that out in my thread. I think he felt this seller was "cheapening" my offer by undercutting me in price, but again, that's the nature of the game when it comes to MRR.

      Add to that the fact that I was encouraging that sort of thing (this product was a viral list building product...I was not in it to make money). Again, this poster didn't know that. It was just an oversight on his part.

      So not everyone who does that is out to kill someone's WSO.

      Just another point of view on the matter.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tim Whiston
        Originally Posted by John Ritz View Post

        Not all of these posts are intended to be harmful, although they can indeed be just that.

        Sometimes the poster is just not paying attention or a bit on the green side.

        For example, I had a MRR WSO a while back, and someone posted in my WSO thread that so-and-so was only selling it for (much cheaper than me). Now that seller was well within his rights to do so. He purchased MRR from me and sold it cheaper than I did.

        But the poster didn't need to point that out in my thread. I think he felt this seller was "cheapening" my offer by undercutting me in price, but again, that's the nature of the game when it comes to MRR.

        Add to that the fact that I was encouraging that sort of thing (this product was a viral list building product...I was not in it to make money). Again, this poster didn't know that. It was just an oversight on his part.

        So not everyone who does that is out to kill someone's WSO.

        Just another point of view on the matter.
        You're absolutely right John. Many of these folks are not trying to be hurtful.

        And that frustrates the hell out of me. LOL

        Your example is perfect. It's never going to change of course. These people just don't think about whacking another business person with their bizarre posts.

        But if even a dozen people read this post and refrain from saying something crazy in their next WSO post we'll have done some good here.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Ritz
          Just to elborate.

          I hardly ever do the price wars thing. Even though John Smith was selling my product for $10 elsewhere, people were still buying it from me for $47.

          Why?

          Because I always give extra bonuses and value that the resellers can't pass on. Of course, they can offer their own value-added premiums (and if you're a MRR reseller, I highly suggest you do so).

          When I sell a MRR product, someone almost always complains that it'll be plastered all over the net for $20 less and they won't be able to make any money with it. Then I get testimonials from folks who make 6 kor 10k in a few days selling it.

          Here's one to illustrate my point:

          Wow!

          I purchased you MRR for the PowerEffects V2 - and man - that
          is one HOT SELLING product!

          I made at least $6K on that one product alone - besides being
          able to actually USE it!

          Anyone reading this should RUN to order this - I still can't believe it's
          so low!

          Amazed - ordering now - great work John!
          Ken Reno
          Kansas, USA
          Instant Commission Me!
          The whiners will always whine. The innovators will always add value and separate themselves from the pack. It's no wonder thy usually do well.

          Something to keep in mind.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarah Harvey
    I have never ever barged into a WSO and complained about anything, but believe me the day I do offer a WSO, if someone doesn't read the post I will feel sorry for them. 5/10 people never read a post properly. So it will be nice to make them look like complete idiots if they ask something and it has already been addressed in the wso. So point is- always offer complete information. The most helpful wso's I have ever seen "sometimes" have a FAQ section at the end of it with most commonly asked questions and the answers. So if someone asks if "Yeah but at such a high price do we get resell rights with it?"

    I would say, "You tell me. Did you even read the wso?"

    If someone drops a link with a competing site or product, I would ask:

    "It's great that you offer a competing product for free. I would appreciate if you could do your advertising outside of my thread. Thanks."

    Then contact a moderator and ask them if they can remove the post. Especially if you stated that they should not advertise in your thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author sparrow
    Impact

    its not about asking about detailed questions about a product but when someone else post a free link or says I can get this for less somewhere else this is where the poster has crossed the line

    a potential customer should ask all the questions they need to make a informed decision these types of questions help all that are interested but to blatantly ambush a WSO - NO.

    Ed
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  • Profile picture of the author Instructor
    I agree with the OP. From having experience in other forums I get absolutely furious when someone comes into my thread and says what I'm selling is overpriced or whatever.

    If you don't like it don't buy it then noones forcing you too, but how dare you insult me.

    Ok rant over...
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Here is the way I look at WSO questions.

      If it is a legit question about the WSO itself, then even if the question ends
      up producing an answer that hurts the WSO because it reveals a weakness
      of the product itself, then I feel those questions NEED to be asked. If the
      vendor has nothing to hide, then he should have no problem answering
      questions, even if they're hard questions.

      For example, for one of my WSOs, where I said I was going to show the
      best ways to do free advertising outside of article marketing, one of the
      members asked if one of the methods was whatever. Now at first I thought
      that revealing the source would hurt the WSO but later realized that even
      if I revealed the source, it would be useless if they didn't know how to make
      the best use of it.

      So, not only did I reveal the source, but I actually reworked the WSO
      copy to include ALL the sources in the product.

      Now, did it hurt sales? Maybe, maybe not. I took a calculated gamble that
      with full disclosure, I'd get more people to trust me.

      Had I not revealed the source, members might have thought that I was
      trying to hide something.

      Either way, it was a harmful question. No doubt about it. But it was, in my
      opinion, a legitimate question to ask. The person probably didn't want to
      invest in the WSO if it was that traffic source because he probably already
      used it and either wasn't having success with it or was having success
      and didn't need to learn any more about it.

      So as you can see, it really depends on the question.

      Some legitimate questions can be harmful.

      That's the nature of this business. If you have something to hide or are
      dealing with secret information, this kind of stuff is going to happen.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tim Whiston
        Originally Posted by John Ritz View Post

        I hardly ever do the price wars thing. Even though John Smith was selling my product for $10 elsewhere, people were still buying it from me for $47.
        Absolutely agree. I regularly sell RR items that other people are giving away for a song. People are more than happy to pay for convenience and quality presentation in my opinion.

        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        If it is a legit question about the WSO itself, then even if the question ends up producing an answer that hurts the WSO because it reveals a weakness of the product itself, then I feel those questions NEED to be asked. If the
        vendor has nothing to hide, then he should have no problem answering
        questions, even if they're hard questions.
        Dammit Steve. Stop spoiling my rant with cool-headed logic.

        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        That's the nature of this business. If you have something to hide or are
        dealing with secret information, this kind of stuff is going to happen.
        I don't have anything to hide. My products are very solid quality and I firmly believe my buyers benefit from the value I offer.

        I have to concede that yes, ultimately this kind of stuff is going to happen, and furthermore it's not morally wrong. It just annoys me because the herd mentality is part of the sales process with a format like the WSO. A tiny amount of doubt, even misplaced, will knock a few sales off the final tally.

        I can't change this little phenomenon of course. It is indeed part of promoting in a forum, I just thought a poll on the matter would make for a worthwile convo.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Tim Whiston View Post

          Absolutely agree. I regularly sell RR items that other people are giving away for a song. People are more than happy to pay for convenience and quality presentation in my opinion.



          Dammit Steve. Stop spoiling my rant with cool-headed logic.



          I don't have anything to hide. My products are very solid quality and I firmly believe my buyers benefit from the value I offer.

          I have to concede that yes, ultimately this kind of stuff is going to happen, and furthermore it's not morally wrong. It just annoys me because the herd mentality is part of the sales process with a format like the WSO. A tiny amount of doubt, even misplaced, will knock a few sales off the final tally.

          I can't change this little phenomenon of course. It is indeed part of promoting in a forum, I just thought a poll on the matter would make for a worthwile convo.

          Tim, the bottom line is this.

          Consumers deserve just as much protection as merchants. It is after all
          their money they're spending. If they have a legitimate question, they
          should be allowed to ask it too.

          If I feel the question is one that I can't answer, I won't answer it and
          will then explain why I'm not going to answer it. If this hurts my sales,
          so be it. I have to weigh the pros against the cons of answering or not
          answering each question asked.

          And yes, this is a problem that you have ONLY in a public forum. If you
          are promoting your sales page out on the net, you're going to get private
          emails with questions. These will not affect the buying decisions of
          others. But with an open forum you take a lot of chances.

          I personally find it challenging and exciting.
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          • Profile picture of the author Tim Whiston
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            I personally find it challenging and exciting.
            Interesting. I'm going to experiment with a new paradigm on this matter, if for no other reason than preserving my sanity.

            While I will continue to execute my own personal values system when posting in other people's WSOs (i.e. not dropping bombs) I'm going to try to leverage future replies to my own WSOs that would have previously annoyed the crap out of me.

            Onward and upward...
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    Hi Tim,

    Great Subject.

    I wrote a little ebook about a year or so ago called "Why are you killing my WSO." I'll send anyone a copy if you post here or PM me. Give me a little time to dig it up.

    I didn't vote in your pole because my method of dealing with illegal or rule breaking WSOs involves the report-post button and that was not one of your choices.

    However, to answer your question, it is not cool to kill another Warrior's WSO whether on purpose or in ignorance.

    If the WSO is not breaking a rule it's none of my business whether I think it's good deal or not or whether I like it or not. If I'm not a buyer it's simply none of my business. And if I ask a question with no intention to buy but just to up my post count or just to "look smart," (yes we can tell) that is not cool either.

    If you listen to the mood of some of the posts lately you'd think that half of us were put here to protect the other half.

    I'm in no way shape or form talking about the veteran Warriors like Bev and others who have some insight on real scammers. I'm talking about people who shout "look at me," with their tattle tale mentality.

    Warriors are grownups and they don't need me to hold their hands and warn them through the WSO buying experience. Besides that, what I think about an offer I've not bought is a guess at best.

    I've gotten Private Messages asking me to comment on the content of WSOs I've purchased. My answer is usually "Hey, it has a money back guarantee, check it out for yourself." "If you have doubts and the feedback or PM information from the WSOs owner doesn't satisfy you then move on and forget about it."

    And if it is breaking a rule I don't want to get involved in any of the ugly "expose" fights that always happen when we don't go by Allen's rules.

    Allen tells us exactly how to deal with these things and he provides the tools to do it. If we do it his way and nothing happens then we should know that he has dealt with it in a way we are not privy to or he decided not to deal with it at all and we should respect his decision.

    Recently a guy was crying about a deleted post of his where he was trying to "warn" us all. These ebbs and flows of self appointed forum vigilante have come and gone over the last 10 years and I guess we are just in a flow right now."

    I know with the new forum we are all moderators but there is a right way to moderate and a wrong way. The right way involves that handy little "report a post" button.

    In a recent WSO another warrior posted where the eBook could be downloaded for free. I guess he thought he was doing everyone a big favor. NOT!

    Anyway as far as dealing with WSO killers a WSO rule probably takes care of about 80% of the killers, another 10% I deal with in my ebook and the last 10% do their damage and move on. Real Warriors whether they have 10 posts or 10,000 posts don't listen to the disruptors.

    Here is the rule as presented by Allen Says: "UPDATED: Anyone caught trying to purposefully harm another persons WSO will be removed from this forum permanently. If you bought the WSO you have a right to comment on it. However, if you have not bought it you have no right to say anything at all about it. You have no basis on which to even give an opinion one way or the other.

    If you think someone is trying to harm your WSO on purpose just PM admin here in the forum."


    Thanks for your OP Tim,
    George Wright
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    • Profile picture of the author Tim Whiston
      Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

      I wrote a little ebook about a year or so ago called "Why are you killing my WSO." I'll send anyone a copy if you post here or PM me. Give me a little time to dig it up.
      George your comments made a lot of sense. Also I'd love to check your ebook out.

      Please PM me a link. Thanks!
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      • Profile picture of the author Ephrils
        Sometimes it seems these posters are just replying with whatever they want to increase their post count. Often a PM sent would accomplish much more and not land that member on your Ignore list, depending on the comment.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Ephrils View Post

          Sometimes it seems these posters are just replying with whatever they want to increase their post count. Often a PM sent would accomplish much more and not land that member on your Ignore list, depending on the comment.
          Hey Robby, you might want to fix that first link in your signature. It's not
          formatted right and it's causing a "server not found" error.
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  • Profile picture of the author Didier Faucher
    Hey Tim, ignoring emails and PM's after not completing a ghostwriting work,
    cool or not ?

    Didier





    .
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Tim Whiston View Post

      Didier

      Can you be any more childish? Seriously.

      I explained quite clearly that I no longer offer writing services. And there was nothing incomplete about the last project we worked on together.

      Grow the hell up. You can have a chip on your shoulder because I didn't take on your second project but don't make gay little comments suggesting I owe it to you to provide further work.
      Yikes

      (Ducking into my bunker...this is going to get ugly)
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      • Profile picture of the author Tim Whiston
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Yikes

        (Ducking into my bunker...this is going to get ugly)
        Ah It just hit a nerve. I won't be lured into a public brawl however so I'll just ignore further attempts to provoke.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
          So where's the "NOT COOL" option in your poll?

          I think it's OK to ask probing questions, and these can often let the vendor give a detailed answer -- which helps prospective customers.

          But, to point to another WSO or sales page is definitely not cool. It amounts to standing outside a store with a sign saying "You can buy those sausages cheaper at Walmart". A person like that deserves a good swift kick.

          Here on the WF, a person like that deserves a good swift "n/a" and a "Goodbye you socially unacceptable misfit"

          Anyone pulling these kind of stunts to try to increase their own sales must be in a desperate hand-to-mouth existence and really should go get a job at McDonalds.
          Signature
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

            So where's the "NOT COOL" option in your poll?

            I think it's OK to ask probing questions, and these can often let the vendor give a detailed answer -- which helps prospective customers.

            But, to point to another WSO or sales page is definitely not cool. It amounts to standing outside a store with a sign saying "You can buy those sausages cheaper at Walmart". A person like that deserves a good swift kick.

            Here on the WF, a person like that deserves a good swift "n/a" and a "Goodbye you socially unacceptable misfit"

            Anyone pulling these kind of stunts to try to increase their own sales must be in a desperate hand-to-mouth existence and really should go get a job at McDonalds.

            I agree Kevin. That kind of sh*t is totally uncalled for. That person should
            be banished to n/a land.
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            • Profile picture of the author Elmer Hurlstone
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

              So where's the "NOT COOL" option in your poll?

              I think it's OK to ask probing questions, and these can often let the vendor give a detailed answer -- which helps prospective customers.

              But, to point to another WSO or sales page is definitely not cool. It amounts to standing outside a store with a sign saying "You can buy those sausages cheaper at Walmart". A person like that deserves a good swift kick.

              Here on the WF, a person like that deserves a good swift "n/a" and a "Goodbye you socially unacceptable misfit"

              Anyone pulling these kind of stunts to try to increase their own sales must be in a desperate hand-to-mouth existence and really should go get a job at McDonalds.
              I agree Kevin. That kind of sh*t is totally uncalled for. That person should
              be banished to n/a land.
              I guess that explains the poor service I've recently received at fast food restaurants.

              With regard to the question at hand:

              Tim, based on the results of your poll thus far (25 responses) most people have no desire to intentionally hurt someone's WSO. Most go out of their way so as not to.

              The clueless and nasty have stayed away in droves.

              Elmer
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              • Profile picture of the author Tim Whiston
                Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

                So where's the "NOT COOL" option in your poll?
                Yeah ... I sort of messed up on the question format. Then when I went in to edit I didn't see an option for adjusting the question text.

                That's what I get for being spastic and not double checking.

                Originally Posted by Elmer Hurlstone View Post


                Tim, based on the results of your poll thus far (25 responses) most people have no desire to intentionally hurt someone's WSO. Most go out of their way so as not to.
                Yeah it seems like most people are careful to be extra courteous. Others feel it's part of the game to ask questions that could cause issue and that WSO posters should be prepared to handle it - I respect this perspective coming from some of the sharp people who have posted in this thread but I'm still part of the cautious crowd when it comes to posting inquiries in other people's offers.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  Nothing wrong with questions (even probing ones) about facts needed to make a purchase decision. If you didn't buy you have no business giving a review. If you have no intention of buying, you don't usually need to be posting there. If you were given a free copy for review, it's best to say you were asked for a review.

                  If you have PROOF or PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that the seller has not delivered on previous WSO's or that the WSO is in violation of the rules, you may ask about that but is best done as a question, not an accusation or a rant. If you believe the WSO does not meet the rules standards - might be better to use the "!" and report your suspicions to Admins and let them sort it out rather than set yourself up as judge and jury.

                  Personally, I dislike the practice of "PM me with questions" or "your question answered by PM" because it's best to keep questions/answers in the thread when possible. It may be necessary at times to use PMs but when it's referenced often I wonder what it is that can't be posted in the thread.

                  I'd add that some sellers have damaged their own WSO's by becoming angry and defensive at questions that have been asked. It is hard for someone to keep arguing with you if you don't argue back - and it's best to just calmly answer the questions, even if the answer is "please read the sales copy".

                  None of the options suited me so I didn't vote () though the last option is closest to what I think is best. The exception to me is that it's not the job of the buyers to protect sales for the seller. Honest reviews from buyers and even skeptical questions should be expected.

                  kay
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                  • Profile picture of the author Tim Whiston
                    Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

                    LOL and I apologize for misspelling appalled. I spelled it right the first time and it didn't look right so I misspelled it so it would look better.

                    Oi vey - and in all my life I will never remember if occassion is ocassion or occasion.

                    Guess I am just a dumbunny and off-topic...
                    I didn't notice the mis-spelling. It looked right on to me...

                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                    I'd add that some sellers have damaged their own WSO's by becoming angry and defensive at questions that have been asked. It is hard for someone to keep arguing with you if you don't argue back - and it's best to just calmly answer the questions, even if the answer is "please read the sales copy".

                    None of the options suited me so I didn't vote () though the last option is closest to what I think is best. The exception to me is that it's not the job of the buyers to protect sales for the seller. Honest reviews from buyers and even skeptical questions should be expected.

                    kay
                    I admit it. I can be short-fused and I'm sure I've caused/added to problems from time to time by ripping into someone.

                    In other areas of my marketing I have support staff and all my support emails route to them. This helps me avoid causing problems with a hot-headed reaction to an abrasive inquiry. In forums however it's just me and my temper with no help desk buffer - LOL - I'm working on it.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
                      This is the 'one-up' mentality that many people have. It has been fostered through competitive environments like school and the workplace.

                      If you post a great product, someone else will snoop in and say their product is better, cheaper etc

                      If you say you have 50,000 subscribers, someone will say they have 100,000 subscribers (false or not).

                      This is just the way it is. Just pay back when the time is right.

                      Fabian
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                    • Profile picture of the author Carol J Smith
                      Tim,
                      From the perspective of a buyer, I have never given a negative response to a WSO, even when I should have. I'd be willing to bet there are many people who like me, simply don't want to ruin a WSO for a seller.

                      While saying that, this is not intended towards your WSO which I still owe you a very good testimonial, because I already have a product on the market now.

                      Carol
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              • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
                Nobody has mentioned the fact that we have to pay $20 to post a WSO. If someone then comes along and says, "Hey you can get it here a lot cheaper," then they have essentially ripped you off for $20...or at least $18.50...maybe $17.45. LOL

                Of course they will have cost you sales as well, which is probably more than $20, but you cannot prove how much you would have made on the WSO, but you can prove that you spent $20 on it.

                AL
                Signature
                Every day I check the obituaries. If I don't see my name there, then I know it's going to be a good day!
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                • Profile picture of the author Tim Whiston
                  Originally Posted by Allen Graves View Post

                  Nobody has mentioned the fact that we have to pay $20 to post a WSO. If someone then comes along and says, "Hey you can get it here a lot cheaper," then they have essentially ripped you off for $20...or at least $18.50...maybe $17.45. LOL

                  Of course they will have cost you sales as well, which is probably more than $20, but you cannot prove how much you would have made on the WSO, but you can prove that you spent $20 on it.

                  AL
                  That's right on. This is paid advertising and those of us who pay the bills, save for retirement, and fund our recreation solely from our online business income are pretty darn serious about maximizing every paid promo for max conversions.

                  Questions like: "Why aren't you adding all the bonuses like so and so at this site?" are kind of lame in this scenario.

                  Again this is all philosophical and just my opinion but I'm always interested in a little brain-picking to see what the other humans might think about a particular issue.
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          • Profile picture of the author YiKeS
            Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

            Anyone pulling these kind
            of stunts to try to increase their own sales must be in
            a desperate hand-to-mouth existence and really should
            go get a job at McDonalds.

            Want flies with that Kev?

            I`m sure glad it`s not like another "certain forum" where
            the MOST asked question to just about ANY seller is ....


            CAN I HAVE A REVIEW COPY!?

            I hate that!!!!!!

            Christopher J.
            Signature
            AUSSIE MADE
            WSO --> HOMEPAGER <--- WSO
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        • Profile picture of the author Didier Faucher
          Originally Posted by Tim Whiston

          Didier

          Can you be any more childish? Seriously.

          I explained quite clearly that I no longer offer writing services. And there was nothing incomplete about the last project we worked on together.

          Grow the hell up. You can have a chip on your shoulder because I didn't take on your second project but don't make gay little comments suggesting I owe it to you to provide further work.
          Originally Posted by Tim Whiston View Post

          Ah It just hit a nerve. I won't be lured into a public brawl however so I'll just ignore further attempts to provoke.
          I don't try to provoke you.

          I never asked you do a second work for me.

          1- I asked revisions, that you never did. But that was ok because I was late when I asked.

          2- I asked very simple questions about some parts I didn't understand, and you have ignored all my emails and PM's.

          3- YES, the work was left incomplete, and you refunded me a part of the money I paid.
          You told me that you no longer do ghostwriting work 10 days after I sent you the details to complete the report.


          Didier
          Signature

          Saya Mau Makan Angin - I Want To eat The Wind (Why not?)

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          • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
            Do I think it's cool? Not really. I think it's childish and immature most of the time (there are, of course, exceptions). On the other hand, I think we, as sellers, need to be prepared for this and have a firm offer developed in such a way that we can defend ourselves.

            If you design graphics, and someone says they're cheaper at your competitor - make sure you have a good reason to justify your higher price. Your experience, knowledge of how to create graphics that not only look pretty but also increase conversions, free re-writes, faster turn-around time, whatever.

            If you are charging more than your competition and delivering less, then you are going to end up looking greedy. And that's your prerogative - but in a free market environment, I doubt it is the best way to increase sales.

            After all, isn't a big part of marketing trouncing your competition? Guerilla (did I spell that right?) Marketing and all that stuff.

            I'm not saying this makes what these people are doing okay. It's not. But I think we should all take steps to ensure we're as prepared as possible, just in case.

            -Dan
            Signature

            Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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            • Profile picture of the author Tim Whiston
              Originally Posted by Daniel Scott View Post

              I'm not saying this makes what these people are doing okay. It's not. But I think we should all take steps to ensure we're as prepared as possible, just in case.

              -Dan
              Yeah that's right on as well. It pays to be prepared since there's a good chance these off color comments will be made.

              As was brought up earlier it may even be possible to learn to leverage some of this out-of-left-field comments to increase the offer's momentum. That would definitely take some creativity but it could happen.
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          • Profile picture of the author Tim Whiston
            Originally Posted by Didier Faucher View Post

            I don't try to provoke you.

            I never asked you do a second work for me.

            1- I asked revisions, that you never did. But that was ok because I was late when I asked.

            2- I asked very simple questions about some parts I didn't understand, and you have ignored all my emails and PM's.

            3- YES, the work was left incomplete, and you refunded me a part of the money I paid.
            You told me that you no longer do ghostwriting work 10 days after I sent you the details to complete the report.


            Didier
            This is pretty far off-topic.

            Didier I realize English is not your primary language. I believe you are a good guy so I'll accept that you weren't trying to provoke me.

            But we sorted the details of your project out in June. You expressed satisfaction and we left open the possibility of collaborating on a joint venture e-book. Now you come out of nowhere to take a jab at me and then say you weren't trying to provoke?

            I no longer trade time for money via writing or any other service line.

            You got an outrageous deal on a piece of extremely well-written material and I provided a refund for the 2.5 pages I didn't compose. We're all done here as far as I'm concerned. If you are now unhappy with your product (two months after the fact) I wish you the best of luck finding someone else to help with a new one.

            I ignored your PM because I'm not taking on any more work or doing any more revisions on an assignment that we are squared up on. It's nothing personal but I feel I've more than delivered on the fee we arranged.

            Take care.
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            • Profile picture of the author Didier Faucher
              Originally Posted by Tim Whiston View Post

              This is pretty far off-topic.
              Yes, that's off-topic, I know.

              But that's the only way I found to contact you since you had ignored
              all my emails and PM's.

              So next time, all you have to do is responding to my messages,
              even to say "I don't want to respond about that".


              Easy. :p


              You expressed satisfaction and we left open the possibility of
              collaborating on a joint venture e-book. Now you come out of nowhere to
              take a jab at me and then say you weren't trying to provoke?
              I'm still very satisfied with your work. It's of VERY good quality.

              I'm trying to know why you ignored all my messages. Nothing more.

              I asked 2-3 very simple questions about some parts of the content,
              that I didn't understand. You only had to spend 2 minutes to explain,
              but you didn't!

              About the collaboration for an ebook, I send you a message about
              that, but I never received any response from you. :confused:

              So when you say "we" left open the possibility...: no.
              *You* left open the possibility, since I have no return on my email.


              You got an outrageous deal on a piece of extremely well-written
              material and I provided a refund for the 2.5 pages I didn't compose.
              Yes, again. Your work is top notch.

              But... hmmm... Just a note. How many customers did you had who provided
              you with a 4,000-word long "outline" for a 8,000 words report? :p
              (in bad english, ok )


              Take care.
              Take care too.

              Didier


              P.S.: I'm not trying to destroy your reputation. You're a very serious guy,
              who do quality work.

              That's just there's no other mean to contact you and have an answer
              to my question: Why no answer to my previous messages?
              Signature

              Saya Mau Makan Angin - I Want To eat The Wind (Why not?)

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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Hi Tim.

    I have been apalled when I see what some idiots, whether intentionally or not will say in a person's WSO. Specifically here is a link for better, cheaper, bigger, whatever. Start your own WSO, Trolls. I Agree they should be N/A'd yesterday.

    I agree questions about the WSO are perfectly acceptable.

    ... and I agree if the seller has in the past not delivered/refunded and/or ripped you off, and has not responded to private messages, publically bringing it up IN THEIR NEXT WSO is A-ok. (both to resolve your issue and warn others of the situation).

    However, provide documentation - transaction number, copy of emails, etc. and don't be antagonistic. Just state the facts and give the person a chance to defend themselves (prove they did deliver/respond, etc) and they also should provide documentation (refund/emails) so it is never he said/she said.

    However, I agree with Kevin. Where is the 'it's not cool' in the poll choices? You have two with making money or not making money which I find slightly irrelevant, because being unkind or stupid would apply either way. How about it's not cool unless? LOL

    So I don't know which one to vote since none match what I think.

    I am so glad you brought this up, however.
    Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author Tim Whiston
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      Hi Tim.

      I have been apalled when I see what some idiots, whether intentionally or not will say in a person's WSO.
      I think appalled is a good term for this. It describes the shock I've felt a time or two.

      And double apologies for botching the question format. I have no idea why I didn't include a simple "Cool" and "Not Cool" button.
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      • Profile picture of the author Patrician
        LOL and I apologize for misspelling appalled. I spelled it right the first time and it didn't look right so I misspelled it so it would look better.

        Oi vey - and in all my life I will never remember if occassion is ocassion or occasion.

        Guess I am just a dumbunny and off-topic...

        Originally Posted by Tim Whiston View Post

        I think appalled is a good term for this. It describes the shock I've felt a time or two.

        And double apologies for botching the question format. I have no idea why I didn't include a simple "Cool" and "Not Cool" button.
        Signature
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        • Profile picture of the author George Wright
          Patrician,

          I would like to take this ocashun to say that I've been reading your posts for a long time now and you are neither dumb nor a bunny. Not even a bunny with lipstick.

          I love it, spell so the words "look better," that will be my motto from this day forward.

          Granpa "how do you spell....?" "Just spell it so that it looks better, boy!"

          Thanks for the laugh,
          George Wright

          Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

          LOL and I apologize for misspelling appalled. I spelled it right the first time and it didn't look right so I misspelled it so it would look better.

          Oi vey - and in all my life I will never remember if occassion is ocassion or occasion.

          Guess I am just a dumbunny and off-topic...
          Signature
          "The first chapter sells the book; the last chapter sells the next book." Mickey Spillane
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  • Profile picture of the author Mary Laine
    I really dislike it when someone hijacks a thread. Not cool, and damn rude to boot. I recently posted a thread at another forum, and the next time I went back it had diversified into a totally different topic!
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  • Profile picture of the author deannatroupe
    I was wondering about that poll. I was going to respond but I didn't see a not cool option.
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  • Profile picture of the author NickMarks
    I agree,

    As the old saying goes "If you don't have anything good to say, then don't say anything at all..."
    Signature

    Nick Marks is an author, speaker and was announced as the Internet Marketer Of The Year 2007 by Russell Brunson & DotComSecrets.

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    • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
      Over the years I have posted legitiment questions, comments, and testimonials in other Warrior's WSO threads. At all times I have received honest answers, honest replies, and honest thanks. Why? Because I only buy from Warriors I know personally or those that have been recommended to me by friends.

      In the end I want three things from a Warrior's WSO.

      1. The product or service performs exactly as advertised.
      + That means I do not expect any extra whistles and bells outside of the original offer.
      + That also means I will not ask for "extras" ... unless the Seller asks for feedback.

      2. Immediate delivery when the product is a digital download.
      + That means after payment I expect access to the product either from a download page or the product immediately emailed to me as an attachment.
      + That also means I do not want to wait on the Seller to manually email the product to me.

      3. Support.
      + That means I expect the product or service to be fully supported by the Seller. Where the Seller is offering software and is not the programmer I expect the Seller to provide a support desk.
      + That also means I do not want to hear "The Programmer" is no longer available, so I cannot support the product until I find another programmer.

      Will I "Kill" other people's WSOs when I do not receive what I expect to receive? The answer is "No" because I simply refuse to do business with the Seller in the future. The Seller is immediately added to my blacklist. And I literally have my own blacklist. Does that do other Warriors any justice or good? Yes, in some cases it does! Here is how..

      .. Seller asks me for a testimonial !!! The testimonial is..

      "The Seller (Name) asked for a testimonial and I cannot give a testimonial in good faith."

      I am not a know it all, but in the business world where I peddle my goods, that comment is the death of an Internet Marketer. I imagine it would be the death of a WSO if the reader is a seasoned Internet Marketer.

      Does that do other Warriors any justice or good if no testimonial was solicited? No, not in most cases. Nothing I can do about that. Will I contact a friend or customer of my own that is asking legitiment questions in a WSO that is not honest and meets my "Things I want from a WSO" list? Yes, in a digital heart beat. That is my friend and/or customer getting too close to the fire. Where I come from we look out of our friends and customers. Of course, the final decision is completely up to the individual.

      Jeffery 100% :-)
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      WarriorHelp.com
      Webmaster to the Stars
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author SandyDuPlessis
      Making hurtful and possibly damaging remarks whether related to a WSO or a "normal" post is most definitely not cool!

      I have just purchased a WSO and was shocked and embarrassed that the very first post was from a warrior slamming the sales copy. I am proud to be a warrior and when I see something as blatantly bad mannered and as rude as that post, it makes me feel distinctly unhappy.

      Comments from a person who has actually purchased a specific WSO and finds it useful or is unhappy with it, are to be expected. In this instance, yes, negative comments can be used to improve the product provided such criticism is made in a constructive way.

      On the other hand, If someone has not purchased the product, or has purchased it but is not happy with his or her purchase, I believe that good manners requires that they PM the seller privately.

      Trashing any part of a WSO and even worse adding a link to something else should not be permitted to happen. Certainly it demeans the integrity of the person making the post.

      Sandy
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