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Affiliates...Why do you hate opt in page?

by Desmond Ong
38 replies
Hey folks,

I'd have over 48 niche marketing sites on ClickBank, PaydotCom and other marketplaces. Early this year, I applied squeeze pages as my homepage on almost 30 of the niche sites -- because my conversion increased when I tested it.

Basically, the function of the squeeze page is simple. To get prospects to subscribe, and then "warm" them up instead of cold-selling my products to them.

Unfortunately, last month, I got some complaints from about 20 affiliates saying that they are losing commissions because I put on a squeeze page. Now, I've always been protecting my affiliates and I didn't take away their commissions through some grey hat or black hat methods or whatever.

But the affiliates think that I'm trying to steal their commissions by using the squeeze page (i guess they are afraid that I might overwrite the prospects' browsers' cookies with my affiliate cookies).

Well, this is not a big problem for me. But I used to get about 1 or 2 new affiliates per day for each of my niche site but certain niche sites are not getting many affiliates any more because they are worried that I might steal their commission.

I recently did an interview with six ClickBank affiliates (whom are all making at least $5,000+) and they told me that they will not bother promoting a niche marketing site with squeeze page as the homepage.

What do you think guys? :confused:
#affiliateswhy #hate #opt #page
  • Profile picture of the author dave147
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    • Profile picture of the author Sean A McAlister
      To add to what has already been said...

      A lot of savvy affiliates know that this is also a list grab and do not
      want to build your list for you with their subscribers....


      All the best
      Sean
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  • Profile picture of the author Desmond Ong
    Thanks guys.

    Really appreciated it.

    But ever since I put on squeeze pages, I've gotten "good-quality" affiliates who kept on bringing me one or two sales per day consistently.

    I've actually put on a full explanation on how the cookie works and how we track..yada yada yada...but seems like a lot of affiliates don't even look at my affiliates center after seeing my squeeze page -- which sucks!

    I've also looked at some big ClickBank products like The CB Code which uses squeeze page as homepage but there are still tons of affiliate marketers promoting it. (weird huh?)
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris_Willow
    Ok, here's what you can do.

    Ask your programmer guy to write a script that gets the affiliate ID from url and puts it in a hidden "ref" field in your autoresponder form. When they've opted in, you have their name, email and the affiliate id. When you send out promotions, send them affiliate link with yoursite.com?a=[ref]. So if an affiliate referred someone, you would automatically send that person affiliate's link and the affiliate would get the commission.

    That's what happens with the big launches when everyone is promoting an optin page. What do you think is easier- getting people to sign up for a free video that provides value and get the commission later, when they have been warmed up, or sell cold?

    optin forms rule
    Peace out

    Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author Desmond Ong
      Originally Posted by Chris_Willow View Post

      Ask your programmer guy to write a script that gets the affiliate ID from url and puts it in a hidden "ref" field in your autoresponder form. When they've opted in, you have their name, email and the affiliate id. When you send out promotions, send them affiliate link with yoursite.com?a=[ref]. So if an affiliate referred someone, you would automatically send that person affiliate's link and the affiliate would get the commission.
      Hey Chris,

      I've done that. Most of my super affiliates and elite affiliates understand the opt in thing.

      But the main concern is with newbie affiliates. Most of them think that I'm stealing their prospects, commissions and to make things worse, they tend to have the mindset that conversion will be much lower if prospects go through the "warming up" process.
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      • Profile picture of the author prashie91
        well, if it's your elite affiliates who will be bringing in the bulk of your sales, why bother with what the newbies think? you're not obliged to make them realise that what you're doing is strategic and hence not going to hamper them.

        when they do eventually come to their senses, they'll come running back to you.


        Originally Posted by Desmond Ong View Post

        Hey Chris,

        I've done that. Most of my super affiliates and elite affiliates understand the opt in thing.

        But the main concern is with newbie affiliates. Most of them think that I'm stealing their prospects, commissions and to make things worse, they tend to have the mindset that conversion will be much lower if prospects go through the "warming up" process.
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        • Profile picture of the author Desmond Ong
          Originally Posted by prashie91 View Post

          well, if it's your elite affiliates who will be bringing in the bulk of your sales, why bother with what the newbies think? you're not obliged to make them realise that what you're doing is strategic and hence not going to hamper them.

          when they do eventually come to their senses, they'll come running back to you.
          Hey mate,

          It's not how I run my niche marketing business if I am to put all eggs in one basket.

          If those top affiliates one day realized that they got sick of promoting my product and promote someone else's, my niche marketing site would literally "die".

          Plus, I like to see those smile on those newbie affiliates when they email me and tell me that they made their first sale. It's a wonderful feeling.
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          • Profile picture of the author prashie91
            well as long as your products make your top affiliates good money (and of course makes more money than your competitors) i don't see why they would get bored. but ya, there is still a risk that this might happen.

            ok. but the bottom line is you can't really please everyone can you? i guess you just have to make them realise that 1) you're not stealing their commissions and wouldn't dream of doing such a thing, and 2) having the opt-in page actually boosts conversion rates, hence increasing the frequency at which they get credited with sales.

            cheers

            prashant

            Originally Posted by Desmond Ong View Post

            Hey mate,

            It's not how I run my niche marketing business if I am to put all eggs in one basket.

            If those top affiliates one day realized that they got sick of promoting my product and promote someone else's, my niche marketing site would literally "die".

            Plus, I like to see those smile on those newbie affiliates when they email me and tell me that they made their first sale. It's a wonderful feeling.
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            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
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              • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                If I've had success promoting your stuff, I don't care if you put up an opt-in page, call me stupid, or insult my mother.

                As long as my $/visitor sent isn't negatively affected, we don't have a problem.
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              • Profile picture of the author prashie91
                hey alexa, point taken.

                then i guess it would simply come down to whether you want to do everything to please your newbie affiliates or focus on the main money makers, the elite affiliates, which the OP says he has.

                and anyway, desmond, you said you'd literally crash and burn if your elite affiliates suddenly decided to stop promoting your products. Surely you do have other sources of traffic? Maybe you could work on these other sources to the extent that it eases your dependence on affiliates to make money.

                cheers

                prashant


                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                Prashie,

                The reality is that neither of these two points is a reason for affiliates to promote products with a vendor's opt-in. The first is knocked down very simply by the observation that there are other products without a vendor's opt-in (to many of us, that's just "game over - problem solved"!), and the second one isn't in dispute anyway: it's just that wise affiliates want to build their own list to boost the conversion-rates rather than having someone else do that for them. Your second comment would have some validity if you were comparing "opt-in" with "no opt-in at all" but that's not the relevant comparison here: it's a question of "vendor's opt-in" or "affiliate's opt-in" that matters. So your comments may be completely true, but realistically they may not be too relevant.
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                • Profile picture of the author Desmond Ong
                  Originally Posted by prashie91 View Post

                  and anyway, desmond, you said you'd literally crash and burn if your elite affiliates suddenly decided to stop promoting your products. Surely you do have other sources of traffic? Maybe you could work on these other sources to the extent that it eases your dependence on affiliates to make money.
                  My niche marketing business is pretty much automated and I'm not really a traffic guy. That is why I appreciate my affiliates sooooo much...because they drive all the traffic for me.

                  Partly also because I'm an active college student (forced by parents to finish my undergraduate degree...dont ask) and time is limited. I do have an assistant who constantly churn out a few articles or so to give me some awesome rankings on Google.

                  But conversions of the traffic referred by my affiliates are wayyyy more higher than the ones from natural traffic generation method.

                  Right now, what I am doing is that I place the pitch page of my ClickBank product in a folder...so the URL appears something like www (dot) bla bla bla (dot) com / offer/ and the main homepage will be the opt in form.

                  This way, affiliates who are browsing through ClickBank will see my sales copy as the homepage and when they decided to join my program as an affiliate -- I will direct them to my affiliate center where they will be given two links for two pages (one page is the squeeze page and another is the sales copy) to refer their traffic to.
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  • Profile picture of the author Desmond Ong
    Hi Alexa,

    I actually have two pages that the affiliates can direct their prospects to right now. So, it's really no worries.

    But the thing that worries me is the conversion for the one without squeeze page. The conversion is about 2% and the one with squeeze page converts at about 5% to 6% sometimes even more.

    My goal as a niche marketer has always been to make my affiliates money so they love me. ;-) So it really bothers me that they are giving up and decided to change their whole campaigns just because I told them that squeeze pages tend to convert better.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hesaidblissfully
      Originally Posted by Desmond Ong View Post

      Hi Alexa,

      I actually have two pages that the affiliates can direct their prospects to right now. So, it's really no worries.

      But the thing that worries me is the conversion for the one without squeeze page. The conversion is about 2% and the one with squeeze page converts at about 5% to 6% sometimes even more.

      My goal as a niche marketer has always been to make my affiliates money so they love me. ;-) So it really bothers me that they are giving up and decided to change their whole campaigns just because I told them that squeeze pages tend to convert better.
      I understand what you're saying. The main issue seems to be that based on your conversion stats, you believe that your affiliates would actually make more money by using the squeeze page/autoresponder follow up approach versus sending traffic directly to the sales page. I don't think your affiliate's trepidation lies with you necessarily, but with the fact that they may not trust any affiliate network's tracking system that much. The fewer opportunities for a "glitch" that causes them to lose their sale, the better.

      Another consideration is that even though it may SEEM like the affiliate will make more money in the end by using a squeeze page due to the higher conversion ratio, you have to weigh that against the money they're missing out on by not building their own subscriber list. In other words, that customer who just helped them generate a $40 commission after buying your product, may have been worth several times that if they'd subscribed to the affiliate's own list and gotten subsequent offers. Of course, it depends on the sophistication of the affiliates as well. Some would be more than happy with just the $40 commission.

      Just throwing that out there for consideration.
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    • Profile picture of the author RyanRingold
      Originally Posted by Desmond Ong View Post

      Hi Alexa,

      I actually have two pages that the affiliates can direct their prospects to right now. So, it's really no worries.

      But the thing that worries me is the conversion for the one without squeeze page. The conversion is about 2% and the one with squeeze page converts at about 5% to 6% sometimes even more.

      My goal as a niche marketer has always been to make my affiliates money so they love me. ;-) So it really bothers me that they are giving up and decided to change their whole campaigns just because I told them that squeeze pages tend to convert better.
      Desmond,

      It sounds to me that you need to do a better job explaining the options AND the difference in the 2 pages BEFORE affiliates sign up.

      Put up a video on the affiliate sign up page explaining that they can send traffic to either page and that you understand their concern, but your squeeze page WILL make them more money. If you can show them screen shots of conversions or include a quick audio interview of an affiliate who is using the squeeze page successfully... or even a few written testimonials from affiliates.

      Get some social proof and handle the objection properly and it shouldn't affect your affiliate registrations.

      It will probably increase sign ups.
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  • Profile picture of the author scrofford
    Just to put in my two cents..I also will not promote a product with the merchant having an opt - in page. If I am promoting the product and am trying to build a list, then I do not want the merchant to take the people from my list. My list is my money...So when I promote a product, I look for only those that do not have opt -ins on the squeeze page.
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  • Profile picture of the author dean_holland
    Hey Desmond

    Im going to go against many here ....

    As an affiliate, if I see Im getting a good return on my investment ( leads sent ) then I have NO problem with sending to a squeeze page.

    The most ideal setup is lifetime cookied... For example I promote an opt in page as an affiliate for a friend and fellow marketer.. However this guy uses InfusionSoft

    I actually keep getting random sales for stuff as I promote his optin page once and he then does all the work for me

    Like I say I actually know this guy and he is seeing 500+ optins a day and is currently netting around $115,000 a month !

    But affiliates LOVE him and his program as the return is so great !

    Thats the key to growth with affiliates... make it convert so well that they spread the word for you about being your affiliate.

    To me it makes perfect sense ... why go straight for a sale ?

    I am launching something with a partner in a few weeks... That process will be

    -Free offer
    -Big ticket item then given for free with $1 trial to $97 continuity
    -Further higher priced items to be added to the funnel for those that take

    So yes a forced continuity but the point is get people into the system for free and then do the work

    Dean
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Anderson
    hi.
    why not do a different type of sales page that still works better, like a video page, or something else?
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    This is a problem concerning all affiliates, however, especially RE: IM and MMO products. I know I run CCleaner every day. Get it?

    I at least want there to be a fighting chance that visitors will buy on their first visit through my hoplink. Anything that takes them off page is not good. Especially because of what Alexa said
    there are other products without a vendor's opt-in (to many of us, that's just "game over - problem solved"!)
    George Wright
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris_Willow
      Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

      I at least want there to be a fighting chance that visitors will buy on their first visit through my hoplink. Anything that takes them off page is not good. Especially because of what Alexa said

      George Wright
      Say they delete the cookies, but they've opted in. If the optin system is set up right, they'll receive your AR sequence with affiliate link already in it. So they get cookied once again if they click any of the links in your email.

      It's actually a bad a$s system :rolleyes:

      Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author willyboy104
    Hmm Desmond, a very hot topic one that many have very strong feelings about. I used to never really take this in to consideration but this was before I became a vendor and since then I have listened and thought about this a lot more.

    I think as Alexa mentioned its the unethical/misleading vendors who perhaps stole affiliate's commissions that has ruined this for many others. I know that you wouldn't be the type of person to steal affiliates commissions but thats only because I talk to you and trust you however you can never expect every affiliate to do this. Therefore they go with their first judgement or the main opinion throughout the web which is obviously the opt in sales pages are bad.

    I also understand that a squeeze page would improve conversions however I would rather allow the affiliate to be able to build their own email list through their marketing efforts as they should not only be rewarded commission for their efforts but also the chance to build an opt in list.

    However I think you have solved this case by allowing affiliates to choose from two sales pages one without and one with an opt in box. Surely by allowing this option affiliates would no longer be scared away, however I would keep the sales page without the opt in box as the main one so affiliates don't run off before they get the chance to promote it. Then on the affiliate page mention it so people have a choice.

    Personally I won't be touching opt in boxes for my product I am not too keen on them and have heard to many bad things about them plus the sort of affiliates I want to attract would run as fast as they could if they saw an opt in box.
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  • Profile picture of the author itcoll
    I agree with this.It will be much better if the affiliates use the opt ins instead of the product sellers.I have always been annoyed when sellers use an opt in on their web sites.
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  • Profile picture of the author robvegas626
    In my niche, I'm doing JVs and cross-promotions with other "gurus" in my niche. I'm not going to direct my list to THEIR squeeze page and have them all sign up for the other guy's list. Now they're getting hit with the other guy's sales offers, plus my own.

    I've set up my affiliate system (ECM) so that my affiliate traffic bypasses my squeeze page and goes straight to my sales page. I think that's the best way to keep your squeeze page, but not scare away affiliates.
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  • Profile picture of the author yommys01
    I don't hate optin pages but I am always very curious. I just don't sign up for just anything.

    I know a warrior who I used to be a subscriber to his list but had to unsubscribe because any message he sends is one stupid offer for me to buy and nothing more.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    It's all about results. If your offer doesn't convert well enough, I'll drop it. If it does, I'll keep it. I don't care how you set it up.
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    • Profile picture of the author theimdude
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      It's all about results. If your offer doesn't convert well enough, I'll drop it. If it does, I'll keep it. I don't care how you set it up.
      I care as it is my time, my money, MY LIST is send to a product. If the vendor can't understand that then he must stop using affiliates to bring him business.
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  • Profile picture of the author thomashoi
    Well, as an affiliate, i do not mind promoting a product with an opt-in page
    if i know they are genuine but this takes some time to build up the
    reputation.

    I guess you need to convince those people that you are actually helping them to
    increase conversions without them doing extra stuff.

    To increase your reputation, i guess you should really help your affiliates
    to get traffic, give them long tail keyword list and teach them about seo
    stuff that they can really learn and apply.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Garratt
    I no longer promote products that have an opt in form on the sales page.

    If the vendor could convince me that every link in every email sent to a prospect that I reffered carried my affiliate code then I might consider it. I want to get paid for each and every sale made to prospects that I referr no matter what products they are sold nor when they are sold to them.

    I used to promote products with squeze pages when I was a newbie but I found that they were the ones that converted realy badly for me.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author apollocreed
      Originally Posted by howdo-i View Post

      I no longer promote products that have an opt in form on the sales page.

      If the vendor could convince me that every link in every email sent to a prospect that I reffered carried my affiliate code then I might consider it. I want to get paid for each and every sale made to prospects that I referr no matter what products they are sold nor when they are sold to them.

      I used to promote products with squeze pages when I was a newbie but I found that they were the ones that converted realy badly for me.

      Steve
      Is it sales pages WITH pop-over/side/pop-up optin forms that affiliates resent or is it the pure squeeze pages?

      If optin forms either as popovers or squeze pages increase your earnings, why does it matter?

      By the time you send the potential customer to the vendor's website, the potential customer is already on your list. So how by a vendor having an optin form does it prevent an affiliate from building and growing their list?

      Apollo
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by apollocreed View Post

        By the time you send the potential customer to the vendor's website, the potential customer is already on your list. So how by a vendor having an optin form does it prevent an affiliate from building and growing their list?
        That's not the issue. There are two related issues.

        1. If I send my list members to your page and they sign up for your list, you can compete with me in marketing to them.

        2. If your page has anything other than a "buy now" button on it, that's something they might click instead, and only "buy now" makes me any money.


        Me, I don't care. I send traffic where it makes me the most money. If you're one of my top moneymakers, I'm not going to stop sending you traffic over some idiotic principle.
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  • Profile picture of the author SeanSupplee
    I wont touch a page with an opt in area. If im going to be spending my time and money to promote someone else's product I am here to make sales and earn that commissions. I am NOT here to build your list and I actually find it insulting when people do add an opt in page. Add an optin page somewhere else where YOUR spending your time and money not mine.
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