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Bet ya didn't know this about CB vendors

by DeePower
42 replies
I have developed a database of the top 100 Clickbank products.

Did ya know that:

45% of the product sales pages have an opt in form or pop up opt in form

14% have an alternate payment method besides clickbank

8% have links to sell other products

23% have offsite links

Any comments?

Dee
#bet #vendors
  • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
    Hi Dee,

    That's interesting. My opinion is, a strong autoresponder sequence can actually boost affiliate commissions. Affiliates still get paid up to 60 days I believe with CB's cookies.

    The other three points are a huge turnoff and screw affiliates out of commissions.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      What Ron said.
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      "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
      ~ Zig Ziglar
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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      • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        But not if the emails in vendor's autoresponder sequence include a link to the product via his wife's affiliate-link, because it's the "most recent affiliate" who gets the commission.
        That's called stealing. I don't think many vendors are doing that.

        As a CB vendor, if I'm giving 75% of my revenue away, I'm definitely going to be building my own list.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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          • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            You don't know how many are doing it, and neither do I.

            I know that I can avoid it by not becoming an affiliate if there's an opt-in on the sales page.
            That seems a bit narrow minded. There are many high converting products with opt-in forms on the sales page. I wouldn't rule them all out at the expense of making less money.

            Just opt-in before you promote and you'll know for sure.
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          • Profile picture of the author KevinA
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            You don't know how many are doing it, and neither do I. Neither of us actually has a way of knowing and that's the point here.

            I know that I can very easily avoid it altogether by simply not becoming an affiliate if there's an opt-in on the sales page, and just choosing a more affiliate-friendly product instead. Problem solved.
            This is my point of view:
            Ive thought about this problem previously, but now I realise that if the vendor does this, he is effectively reducing conversion rates for his affiliates. As a new vendor in the game (past 2 months), you realize that affiliates WILL drive the success of your business! Affiliates are the lifeblood, as they bring traffic and sales. When affiliates see good conversions and sales, it motivates them to increase their grip in the niche, which obviously brings in money for the vendor.

            If a vendor chooses to steal commissions they are effectively destroying their promotion base and business over time! Affiliates can easily move onto other products.

            Hence I dont think any smart vendor would do this.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lance K
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        But not if the emails in the vendor's autoresponder sequence include a link to the product via his wife's affiliate-link, because it's the "most recent affiliate" who gets the commission.
        Has anyone got a good reason for the "most recent affiliate" getting the sale?

        In the offline world of sales, companies usually frown on their salespeople going after each other's prospects.
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        "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
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        • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
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          Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

          Has anyone got a good reason for the "most recent affiliate" getting the sale?
          in theory, the last affiliate is the one who convinced you to buy. Why should the first affiliate get the commission simply for being first? If the last person to tell me about the product is the one who persuades me to buy, he's the one who should get credit.

          In the offline world of sales, companies usually frown on their salespeople going after each other's prospects.
          In the online world, other affiliates aren't my co-workers. I have no idea who got there first, and frankly, I don't care.
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          • Profile picture of the author Lance K
            Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

            In the online world, other affiliates aren't my co-workers. I have no idea who got there first, and frankly, I don't care.
            Of course you don't. But I'd think the company who stands to lose top salespeople would.
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            "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
            ~ Zig Ziglar
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  • Profile picture of the author Lance K
    Originally Posted by DeePower View Post


    23% have off site links
    I'm kinda floored by that one.
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    "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
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    • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
      Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

      I'm kinda floored by that one.
      Me too. And yet I've seen sales pages with AdSense ads on them.

      I kind of think the folks who put AdSense ads and offsite links on their sales pages just don't know any better, since they are shooting themselves in the foot. So it's likely that they're open to removing those links once they understand how it harms them and their affiliates.

      On the flip side...

      I'm guessing that MOST of those folks who are changing affiliate links in autoresponder messages (as Kelly mentioned above) know exactly what they're doing. (i.e., They're deliberately trying to keep the commission out of the affiliate's pocket.) Short sighted for sure.

      cheers,
      Becky
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      • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
        Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

        they are shooting themselves in the foot
        and ending up with a hoplink


        Harvey
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        • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
          Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

          and ending up with a hoplink
          Where's the "grrrooooaaaaan!" button?
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          • Profile picture of the author myob
            Here is how you can protect yourself from the cheating Clickbank vendors. Let me emphasize that using Clickbank can be one of the most powerful ways of building up a list of proven buyers. I have a method that capitalizes on this very powerful tool (as an affiliate only) to generate targeted leads of buyers for promoting niche products. I have never sold anything through Clickbank as a vendor, and never will, primarily because I'm too lazy to try to duplicate some of the products that are already available. (Not all products are all that great, although you really can find some gems) But the creative use of the power of Clickbank is one of my major sources of testing niches and building some very large lists of paying subscribers in many different niches.

            Most of the vendor sales pages for otherwise decent products are poorly designed, and for other reasons cited above perhaps should not even be used at all. I design my own Clickbank landing/sales pages which have a direct link to the Clickbank payment page for products that I'm promoting. That way, I'm building my own lists, not the vendors'. The initial commission is not really as important to me as just getting the paying subscribers on my lists, who will then be likely to buy other affiliate products.

            The Clickbank payment page link is always in this format:
            Code:
            http://prodnumber.affiliate_vendor.pay.clickbank.net
            Where prodnumber is the product ID number (Usually "1", but some vendors sell multiple products with the same account)

            And affiliate is your CB affiliate nickname

            And vendor is the vendor name

            Test the link yourself before adding it to your landing/sales page. If your affiliate nickname shows at the bottom of the payment page, it is working properly. Also if you want, buy the product through your direct payment link, and your sale will show up immediately in your Clickbank account.

            So you can design your own landing page (be sure to include an optin form), and use that payment link format to bypass cookies and all the BS tricks that many vendors may use to cheat you out of your commissions.

            Having your own list of targeted Clickbank buyers is priceless. This technique saves me a lot of advertising expense and weeds out the deadbeat "subscribers" who would otherwise signup to my lists just to get a freebie. (Hint: They get LOTS of freebies as a bonus for buying something through my Clickbank links)
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            • Profile picture of the author cybernet
              i like building my OWN mailing list. Unfortunately for me, the vendor also likes building his mailing list. Two optins is very annoying for a user.

              After opting-in to my list a visitor clicks on my CB affiliate link that lands him on vendor's home page where he's expected to opt-in second time. After the second optin the user is redirected to the html page where he gets his "freebies" (free video lessons) .

              Is it possible to send visitors directly to "freebie" html page without loosing CB affiliate cookie? If "yes", what is the link/code ?
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    These are just a few of the reasons that I quit using CB to either sell my products or to sell affiliate products. I'm still waiting for an answer to why they were taking 7 bucks here, 4 there, etc from my earnings on my own product. Those small amounts were adding up and I just got sick of trying to get answers and them never responding to tell me why that money was being drawn off. They want to play games when they are no longer the only ice-cream shop in town. I use RAP now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randy Meirndorf
    Really, some of use warriors should team up, and make a site comparable to clickbank, and do everything the right way with standards and guidelines. And a better tracking and stat systems!
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Bruno
    I actually prefer it when the vendor has an optin form on their site selling their product/service using a followup system. Saves me the hassle of setting up my own.

    I just consider it auto pilot profits...

    I do read all the time here though about affiliate marketers whining about vendor having optin boxes on their site. I can see if they were pitching other stuff all the time but just do your DD.

    Frank Bruno
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  • Profile picture of the author Talinn
    I am making $50-60 a day from a product that has an opt-in on its sales page. Absolutely no offense to all the gurus here who are the reason I am earning anything in the first place; but if I had followed all advice posted here I would be earning $2000 less per month.
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    • Profile picture of the author DeePower
      Talinn

      Not be argumentative but you don't know how much you would or wouldn't be making with another affiliate product that didn't have the opt in.

      Dee
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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      • Profile picture of the author Talinn
        Originally Posted by DeePower View Post

        Talinn

        Not be argumentative but you don't know how much you would or wouldn't be making with another affiliate product that didn't have the opt in.

        Dee
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        You might be earning $2000 more, Talinn. It all depends on what you'd have decided to promote instead of that one!
        I do not believe that a product that converts around 1:25 would do any better if it didn't have an opt-in page.

        I would really love it if the gurus stopped labeling the opt-in as a certain no-no when it comes to which product to promote. Just adding it as something discouraging, with which I agree, would be better.
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        • Profile picture of the author DeePower
          Believe it or not there are 6 CB products in the top 100 that have an affiliate link, opt in forms, alternative payment methods and offsite links. Talk about leaky!

          Dee
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          • Profile picture of the author williamstraus
            Originally Posted by DeePower View Post

            Believe it or not there are 6 CB products in the top 100 that have an affiliate link, opt in forms, alternative payment methods and offsite links. Talk about leaky!

            Dee
            I don't know if it's that bad. I was setting up the scripts for a friend who is publishing his CB product and the scripts had options to do things like:

            - If no cookie use Paypal - because the product owners pay a LOT in commissions to CB. If the cookie is there stick with ClickBank.

            Now this doesn't harm the affiliate in any way. It certainly is confusing and could scare affiliates off because it makes the site look "leaky".

            I believe the script was dlgaurd and is in use by a lot of the vendors in the marketplace.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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          • Profile picture of the author mahasaya
            I've got a product on CB: babycolictop.com

            If I were to consider promoting this product as an affiliate, (at first sight), I would balk at the opt-in forms all over the site and probably not promote the product as indeed, I would be building the vendor's list and not my own (from an affiliate point of view)...

            But for affiliates who register on the affiliates account interface and generate their affiliate link (which they can cloak if they so choose), I found a solution that will satisfy all parties.

            I included a CB affiliate nick capturing code on all opt-in forms so it appears as information on all opt-ins in my aWeber list (when driven by affiliate traffic) so I can credit the sale if the opt-in that buys later comes from an affiliate. An affiliate using my product affiliate link will send his CB nick automatically if the customer opts-in. (It will be captured)

            It took some thinking and some coding, but it works.

            A lot of work to check sales and opt-ins, but fair is fair. If the opt-in comes from an affiliate and the sale is made afterward, it is only right that the affiliate gets his commission. After all, he is the one who brought in the customer.

            The point is that for some products, the email responder will do the trick of closing the sale later. The customer gets regular reminders, a couple of extra freebies included emails and some hard sell emails. The overall result is more sales.

            A win-win situation for vendor and affiliate alike.

            Theo
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            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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              • Profile picture of the author mahasaya
                Alexa,

                Very pertinent indeed.

                As an ex-salesman myself, I could think of nothing more hateful than prospecting for the customer and bringing in the sale (signed order and an advance check for 20%) and NOT get commission or credit for the sale.

                (Usually under some false pretext like: it is not your area, or this customer belongs to x,y or z since times immemorial, blah, blah,...) It is just not fair, period.

                In order to avoid this, and keep the advantage of the auto-responder series, capturing the CB affiliate nick seems like the best solution. I can't circumvent the CB rule that the most recent cookie will get the credit of the sale, that is a hard one to crack.

                By ClickBank's own admission, only about 1,3% of all 1 200 000+ affiliates make any decent money. That's still about 16 500 people that are more than getting by.

                Do you also have a sales page without apparent leaks?!
                It stands to reason that any affiliate who would ask for it would get a special landing page tailored to his needs. After all, if someone is asking, I'll go the extra mile to help him make us money.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kelly Verge
          Originally Posted by Talinn View Post

          I would really love it if the gurus stopped labeling the opt-in as a certain no-no when it comes to which product to promote. Just adding it as something discouraging, with which I agree, would be better.

          Talin, let me tell you a story about a few of my sites.

          I began promoting a certain product on ClickBank almost a year ago. They had an opt-in which, given the nature of the product, was both a no-brainer and almost a certainty that visitors would sign up.

          Their follow-up sequence did a great job and I was making good commissions. They were good enough that I worked on driving even more traffic to them.

          Time passed.

          One day I noticed that even though my traffic was nearly 8x what it was when I decided to ramp up, my commissions had dropped to zero. I suspected a change to their autoresponder, so I signed up (again) to see if they were up to no good.

          They had replaced all of the affiliate links in the emails.

          It happens. There are also CB vendors that add an opt-in or other "leaks" months after they start selling.

          My answer was that I duplicated their freebie and email sequence (loosely) and started building my own list. I still promote their product, but my sales have gone back up to where they were before. I'm able to promote related products for more sales. I end the sequence promoting a competing product after a few weeks, and I'm ale to squeeze out a few more sales.

          If you promote products with opt-ins, know what you're getting into and watch your commissions as time goes on.
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  • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
    That is a lot of leakage on a sales page.

    I don't have a problem with the merchant capturing
    the lead and following up, as long as the affiliate is
    given the commission later.

    At the same time, I HAVE asked CB merchants, and
    merchants using other affiliate management systems
    to set up custom landing pages for me. If they know
    that you're actually going to promote, and deliver
    sales, most savvy merchants won't have a problem
    with that.

    Willie
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  • Profile picture of the author documaker
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  • Profile picture of the author Mukul Verma
    I would agree with Ron, that if someones looking at the bigger picture (long term), just making a little money by pulling a fast one would not be there objective, it would be relationships and collecting email address.

    Interesting discussion guys!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mukul Verma
    and Alexa
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  • Profile picture of the author gyar29
    Alexa and Theo both have good points. One is from the perspective of the affiliate the other is from the perspective of the product owner.

    As an affiliate Alexa states that she chooses to not promote products that have a sign-up form. Very much her decision to make. However, she also states that she uses a sign-up herself in order to build her list. Generate more income. Etc...

    A practice she has decided is taboo for the product's owner if they wish her to promote their product. Alexa states that even if the vendor goes out of their way to ensure that affiliates are payed for their efforts, She would still choose to not promote. Again very much her decision to make.

    However, vendors are also in the business of making money. I doubt that anyone here would dispute the fact that generating a list is a tactic that rarely does not generate a relatively high ROI.

    So in the end a vendor also must make a choice, build a list, or have affiliates that have made the same decision as Alexa not promote your product.

    Personally I would build the list. I would, like Theo, do everything I could to ensure that affiliates get credit for their sale. Including capturing their affiliate ID in the auto-responder form and including their link in every pre-sale email that is sent to the prospective customer. I would also try to alleviate the affiliates concern that I am surreptitiously stealing their commission by attempting to prove to them that I am collecting that data in my form.

    But build the list I would.

    Additionally, if an affiliate that has the potential to generate a relatively large number of potential clients for my product asks to have a personalized sales page just for them. Then of course I would generate that page.

    In the end each must make their own decision. Personally, if a vendor is willing to continue contacting a potential customer to make a sale for both of us then by all means have at it. And I will promote.

    We all know there are too many variables outside the control of ClickBank, the vendor, and the affiliate to ensure that proper credit for every sale is attributed to the affiliate. But if a vendor, such as Theo, is doing everything they can to increase the potential that an affiliate receives their commission why wouldn't you promote that vendor's product?

    Gene
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  • Profile picture of the author WadeWinger
    I wouldn't promote any of these sites:


    14% have an alternate payment method besides clickbank

    8% have links to sell other products

    23% have offsite links
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  • Profile picture of the author williamstraus
    About the "leaky" sales page because of optins.

    One CB vendor who is guilty of doing this is none other than Mike Geary of the Truth About Abs. First time I opted in I got an email (with his affiliate link!) to Busy Man Fitness (some other eBook he wrote), emails about some dieting pill (again his affiliate link).

    Then it was an affiliate link to buy grass fed beef ;-) Don't get me wrong - I like his stuff. I even bought his ebook and enjoyed it.

    I actually didn't see much follow up or "selling" at all of the Truth About Abs - which is why I directed traffic to him.

    But you know what - his funnel converts brilliantly.

    The more I study and reverse engineer who is doing media buys for what I've noticed he's all over the place. Even adult/porn sites have affiliates promoting the Truth About Abs there!

    Why? Because it converts amazingly well. In spite of the leaks.

    It just comes down to testing.

    You can find an air-tight sales page which doesn't have much content and converts poorly or you can go with a nicely design, highly optimized site like TAA and deal with a few "leaks".
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  • Profile picture of the author Caragui
    Interesting statistics. I'm not really into promoting CB products as I don'te like the long waity for the commissions.

    Also, I've always had a question with salespages that has an opt-in like. If the visitor opt-in to the vendor's list, would the affiliate that sent him get the commission if the visitor eventually buys? I haven't found any satisfactory answer so anytime I see a vendor salespage with an opt in form (some salespage only have an opt-in form) I run away.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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      Originally Posted by Caragui View Post

      Also, I've always had a question with salespages that has an opt-in like. If the visitor opt-in to the vendor's list, would the affiliate that sent him get the commission if the visitor eventually buys?
      That depends on a large number of things - but it's "uncertain", at best.

      It's a really big and complicated question.

      There are many threads here discussing it, but unfortunately most of them are at least half-full of misinformation and misunderstandings.

      This one is a lot better than most but still contains its share of hot air from people who have missed many of the points, I'm afraid. However, it is worth a long, slow, careful read all the way through.

      Originally Posted by Caragui View Post

      I haven't found any satisfactory answer so anytime I see a vendor salespage with an opt in form (some salespage only have an opt-in form) I run away.
      So do I - unless the vendor has the sense also to provide another copy of the sales page without his opt-in.

      Experienced, successful vendors know that they have to do that, to attract any serious, professional affiliates.

      From the vendor's perspective, the "first 90%" of the affiliates are easy to attract, but they make only 10% of the sales. The remaining 10% of the affiliates, who produce 90% pf the sales, won't touch anything with a vendor's opt-in on the sales page.

      Almost no serious affiliate wants customers s/he has generated with his/her skills, time, effort, energy and expense to be opted in to the vendor's list rather than to his/her own!

      If it helps/interests anyone, my own little checklist of product-selection criteria, as an affiliate, is here: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post2161932




      Guys ... this thread is two and a half years old ... I'm "just saying" ... :p
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      • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Guys ... this thread is two and a half years old ... I'm "just saying" ... :p
        Doesn't matter. Some information here is timeless.

        Also, imagine that if the top 100 selling products have these massive leaks, how does the average selling products manage?


        It's so hard to find a good product to promote ... I'm "just saying" ... :p

        L.E. : ohh, I just hit my 100th!
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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          Originally Posted by canyon View Post

          Some information here is timeless.
          Yes, some is, but some is also terribly out of date, because ClickBank's terms of service, regulations, policies and procedures have changed a lot over that time.

          Originally Posted by canyon View Post

          Also, imagine that if the top 100 selling products have these massive leaks, how does the average selling products manage?
          Well ... people talk a lot of nonsense about this subject, you see. They don't know which are the top-selling products, because that information isn't available.

          They just think they can work it out from "gravity" and "popularity" figures. And they're wrong.

          Originally Posted by canyon View Post

          It's so hard to find a good product to promote
          Yes - I can't argue with you about that. I've spent nearly half an hour per day, over the last 3 years, researching/identifying them. And that adds up to a lot of work. (But very worthwhile!).

          Originally Posted by canyon View Post

          ... I'm "just saying" ... :p
          Touché ... ("can play at that game") ...
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