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Is IM just a lame "self-fulfilling-prophecy"?

by Splatterfox
35 replies
Hey guys,

so I've been working in IM for quite a long time now, then moved to E-Commerce where I had by far the most success with. Now I'm mixing it up with IM again but I wonder how far this all came. Basically every thread, every offer and every salespage is just about "my simple trick to generate $328.21 a day." So basically these IM earn money by telling others how to make money.

It is all the same, some use other words, some other pictures, some use a video and others just pictures. Usually they don't give any information about the product whatsoever, just say how great and easy it is. I mean is this all IM can do? I know the importance of selling with concrete numbers, making the visitor click a link or using an offer by making it interesting. But nowadays everything looks kind of the same and every single marketer seems to have his own "get rich easy" program.

I hope this doesn't sound as if I am a complete newbie not understanding the business at all, because I'm not. But the more I'm diving into IM again besides my E-Commerce activities the more it seems as it is all centered around this.

What are your opinions about it? Did you ever encounter a really exciting and helpful offer? What kind of courses do you sell yourself (if you do)?

This isn't meant to offend anyone doing one of these things of course!
#lame #selffulfillingprophecy
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Splatterfox View Post

    Hey guys,

    so I've been working in IM for quite a long time now, then moved to E-Commerce where I had by far the most success with. Now I'm mixing it up with IM again but I wonder how far this all came. Basically every thread, every offer and every salespage is just about "my simple trick to generate $328.21 a day." So basically these IM earn money by telling others how to make money.

    It is all the same, some use other words, some other pictures, some use a video and others just pictures. Usually they don't give any information about the product whatsoever, just say how great and easy it is. I mean is this all IM can do? I know the importance of selling with concrete numbers, making the visitor click a link or using an offer by making it interesting. But nowadays everything looks kind of the same and every single marketer seems to have his own "get rich easy" program.

    I hope this doesn't sound as if I am a complete newbie not understanding the business at all, because I'm not. But the more I'm diving into IM again besides my E-Commerce activities the more it seems as it is all centered around this.

    What are your opinions about it? Did you ever encounter a really exciting and helpful offer? What kind of courses do you sell yourself (if you do)?

    This isn't meant to offend anyone doing one of these things of course!



    Use common sense and you'll start overlooking most of the hype without giving much/any thought.

    There's always going to be dreamers believing hype but that's their problem just like someone addicted to gambling.

    I rarely look at threads that include dollars in the thread title, well, unless it looks like a good lol.
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    • Profile picture of the author lhlouiscom
      If you have great success with e-commerce then you should stick to it.

      But others use email marketing, they build an audience... and endorse products to see if people interested in buying and therefore become wealthy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
    Originally Posted by Splatterfox View Post

    What are your opinions about it? Did you ever encounter a really exciting and helpful offer? What kind of courses do you sell yourself (if you do)?

    This isn't meant to offend anyone doing one of these things of course!
    My opinion.. If you're only making money by telling others how to make money, then you're a fraud.

    Likewise if you're promising an income.

    But if you're sharing what's working for you.. then that's different.

    A lot of people here have businesses outside the IM niche that makes us comfortable.. the IM thing is just an additional way to increase the bottom line.

    It sounds like you have legitimate business outside IM.. a lot of people here are like you and we share what's working.
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  • Profile picture of the author Splatterfox
    Originally Posted by yukon View Post

    Use common sense and you'll start overlooking most of the hype without giving much/any thought.

    There's always going to be dreamers believing hype but that's their problem just like someone addicted to gambling.
    Sure, its just that I question someone who calls himself "professional internet marketer" when the only thing he does is telling people how to make money in cheap eBooks with common sense stuff in it (which is what many people actually do).

    Originally Posted by Michael Meaney View Post

    My opinion.. If you're only making money by telling others how to make money, then you're a fraud.

    If you're sharing what's working for you.. then that's different.
    Exactly what I mean.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Splatterfox View Post

      Sure, its just that I question someone who calls himself "professional internet marketer" when the only thing he does is telling people how to make money in cheap eBooks with common sense stuff in it (which is what many people actually do).

      If you've been here for a while the whole I'm an expert is an inside joke. Usually 3rd world nonsense self proclaiming a day after asking noob questions on the same subject.

      It is what it is, not important.
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      • Profile picture of the author Splatterfox
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        If you've been here for a while the whole I'm an expert is an inside joke. Usually 3rd world nonsense self proclaiming a day after asking noob questions on the same subject.

        It is what it is, not important.
        Maybe you are right. I mean sure, I'm completely aware of the fact that most of the people making these offers are far from experienced in their field, but I somehow feel that this kind of stuff has increased even more since I've been highly active in IM some time ago (even though at this time there were tons of these "products" already )
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
      Originally Posted by Splatterfox View Post

      Sure, its just that I question someone who calls himself "professional internet marketer" when the only thing he does is telling people how to make money in cheap eBooks
      While a lot of people may only sell those things, many apply the things they teach in other areas. For example, they have a MS Word tutorial series. To market the series they use email, copywriting, social media, SEO, PPC, etc.

      The question is how do you know what a marketer does since most aren't transparent with strangers? Why assume that the only thing they do is ___ when you really don't know?

      with common sense stuff in it
      There are thousands of ebooks, books, videos, classes, etc. teaching how to lose weight, run faster, swim better, etc. Many of these are put out by knowledgeable folks such as people with advanced degrees or licenses (doctors). But, in the end, losing weight pretty much comes down to using common sense. So it isn't just this industry that does that.

      I'm not disagreeing with you. But I think when we look at these sorts of things we need to be fair and balanced in looking at them. So many times people try and fail and then they post things like this with the same kind of "attitude" about how wrong everything is.

      Besides, ecommerce, is internet marketing (marketing stuff on the internet) in my opinion. I know you are talking about make money online but they are two different things. I believe FB, Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, etc. are involved in internet marketing.

      Another angle to consider in the case where someone only sells how to make money online stuff. I know a few respected "gurus" in that category. I know of these gurus because I bought their stuff. I bought their stuff because they know how to market and get the sale. So, doesn't the fact that they can sell these things, with so many people yelling scam, so many detractors, etc. prove they know what they are doing? Some would say that a guy that can sell a how to get rich book can also sell a how to lose weight book or a fly fishing book or a repairing car engines book because they know how to sell. Do you agree or disagree?

      Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author MValmont
    There you go again,

    the good old belief that if someone is teaching others how to make money online, THEN IT MEANS THEY ARE NOT MAKING MONEY ANY OTHER WAY. IT IS A SCAM 100%

    Let's try to use logic for a moment.

    Want to know why I'm teaching people how to make money online?

    Answer: TO MAKE MONEY MONEY. I'm making money with Amazon as we speak, but on top of that, I decided to create a program teaching people how to do it.

    Why? I repeat, TO MAKE MORE MONEY. What's hard to understand.

    I actually don't even understand how someone can come to the conclusion that because someone is teaching people to make money online they are a fraud.

    We are doing it to MAKE MONEY MONEY. Repeat after me:
    MORE MONEY
    MORE MONEY
    MORE MONEY MOOORRREEEE MOOONNNEEEYYYYY

    Why would I not do this? I created one more stream of income by doing this, isn't smart?

    MORE MONEY.

    It means that now not only i'm making money with Amazon, but I'm making money with people buying my programs. MORE MONEY

    MOOORRREEEE MONNNEEEYYYYY
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  • Profile picture of the author Swyft
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
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      • Profile picture of the author MValmont
        Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

        Nominated for BS post of the day!

        You have absolutely zero proof or knowledge what you say is true.

        Mark
        Haha isn't it amazing?

        I can't even believe what I'm reading.

        This thread is the absolute proof that it is all about the mindset.

        Really some people have such a weak mindset that is it literally IMPOSSIBLE for them to achieve anything in life.
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    • Profile picture of the author MValmont
      Originally Posted by Swyft View Post

      Those who can't do, make an info product on how to do it
      Why wouldn't I do BOTH to make MORE money?

      Can someone explain this to me? Am I the only one on this forum who likes to make a lot of money?
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      • Profile picture of the author kilgore
        Originally Posted by Splatterfox View Post

        Hey guys,

        so I've been working in IM for quite a long time now, then moved to E-Commerce where I had by far the most success with. Now I'm mixing it up with IM again but I wonder how far this all came. Basically every thread, every offer and every salespage is just about "my simple trick to generate $328.21 a day." So basically these IM earn money by telling others how to make money.
        A lot of people around here seem to have a funny notion about what internet marketing is. Internet marketing is not the same as hawking Make Money Online products. And it's certainly not a type of business or a business model in itself.

        Internet marketing is simply doing marketing on the internet. And as an entrepreneur, you practice internet marketing to achieve larger business goals -- it's not an end goal in itself. Those business goals may include selling MMO products, but they also could include driving traffic to your e-commerce site, getting people to read your blog on penguins, promoting a charity or any number of a million other things.

        So when you say "I used to do IM, but then I stopped and did e-commerce", that just doesn't make sense. You couldn't have done e-commerce without internet marketing. Moreover, when you talk about every offer and every sales page being about telling others how to make money, you're ignoring 99.9% of the internet.
        • The sidebar ads you get when you read the news or search for something on Google probably have nothing to do with making money online. But they're still internet marketing.
        • The email newsletters you get from Amazon or Dell or your favorite political candidate have nothing to do with making money online. But they're still internet marketing.
        • Apple's new salespage for their recently launched iPhone 7 has nothing to do with making money online. But it's still internet marketing.
        It seems to me that the problem isn't so much that internet marketing is some "lame self-fulfilling prophesy" -- it's that you don't know what internet marketing is. And if you don't get that MMO is just one -- relatively small -- part of the gigantic internet marketing universe, you're probably not ready for MMO marketing anyway. If you want IM without the pyramid scheme all you gotta do is simply jump of the merry-go-round and work in one of the millions of other niches that are out there. You'll probably be more successful that way too.

        Originally Posted by MValmont View Post

        Why wouldn't I do BOTH to make MORE money?

        Can someone explain this to me? Am I the only one on this forum who likes to make a lot of money?
        For me anyway, it comes down to concepts like decreasing marginal costs and non-linear growth.

        As en example of decreasing marginal costs, whether I have 1 person on my website a day or 1 million people every second, I still only need that one website. Yes other costs do increase, I'll need bigger servers as one example. But overall the marginal cost of each additional visitor decreases as your userbase gets bigger. The same would be true if I were selling ebooks: the work involved in producing an ebook is more or less the same whether I sell one copy or a million copies.

        The concept of non-linear growth is related to the above. What it boils down to is something pretty much every successful business experience: growth in a new business is often very slow at first, it then experiences a period of faster growth, and then it tapers off again. This is the classic sigmoid function or S-curve (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmoid_function). What it means to an entrepreneur is that you'll almost certainly make less money running two businesses at the early growth phase than you will running a single business at a faster growth phase. Splitting your energies between two businesses as you're suggesting (for instance a non-MMO niche and an MMO niche) to leverage the non-linear growth characteristic in internet businesses to maximize your profit.

        What all this means is that -- for me at least -- it's far more lucrative to stay out of MMO businesses. It's a lot easier and a lot more profitable to develop new features or products to expand my current customer base rather than essentially starting a new business from scratch, developing an entirely different customer base in an entirely different industry that I have no experience in. I suppose if your business has saturated its growth potential, adding a new business might make you more money. But I'd argue that's generally only the case for businesses that are either very mature and dominating their industries or for geographically constrained businesses. Otherwise, if you find your business's growth to be "saturated", I suspect you're just not being creative enough.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Griffiths
    Originally Posted by Splatterfox View Post

    Hey guys,

    so I've been working in IM for quite a long time now, then moved to E-Commerce where I had by far the most success with. Now I'm mixing it up with IM again but I wonder how far this all came. Basically every thread, every offer and every salespage is just about "my simple trick to generate $328.21 a day." So basically these IM earn money by telling others how to make money.

    It is all the same, some use other words, some other pictures, some use a video and others just pictures. Usually they don't give any information about the product whatsoever, just say how great and easy it is. I mean is this all IM can do? I know the importance of selling with concrete numbers, making the visitor click a link or using an offer by making it interesting. But nowadays everything looks kind of the same and every single marketer seems to have his own "get rich easy" program.

    I hope this doesn't sound as if I am a complete newbie not understanding the business at all, because I'm not. But the more I'm diving into IM again besides my E-Commerce activities the more it seems as it is all centered around this.

    What are your opinions about it? Did you ever encounter a really exciting and helpful offer? What kind of courses do you sell yourself (if you do)?

    This isn't meant to offend anyone doing one of these things of course!
    I know EXACTLY what you mean. I've been dabbling in the IM world for almost a decade now and things haven't changed that much.

    It reminds me of John Chow's famous quote "I make money online by telling other people how I make money online". A bit of the snake eating its own tail.

    I think the reason that everyone wants to push the get rich quick schemes is the fact that it's exactly what people want. They just want a push button solution to make money online.

    Over the years I've discovered that opportunities to make a lot of money quickly are often short term. On the other hand, building out a massive website takes a long time, yet provides the most longevity overall.

    If a method is quick and easy, everyone will do it, competition rises, checks and balances arise. These methods, usually Blackhat in nature, tend to burn out quickly.

    I highly doubt this will ever change. It's just part of the dynamic.

    The best advice I could give any newcomer is to think long term and invest heavily in long term projects. You won't see money as fast but you'll definitely learn a lot more and have the opportunity to build real assets.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve B
    Originally Posted by Splatterfox View Post

    Basically every thread, every offer and every salespage is just about "my simple trick to generate $328.21 a day."

    But nowadays everything looks kind of the same and every single marketer seems to have his own "get rich easy" program.

    Splatterfox,

    You see what you want to see.

    Honestly, is "every offer and every salespage" really just about "my simple trick to generate $328.21 a day"? Hardly. That's not what I see at all.

    You don't really believe what you just said here, do you? "every single marketer seems to have his own 'get rich easy' program." I'm a marketer and I don't have any such thing. And I know lots of other IMers that don't sell get rich easy programs.

    If that's honestly all that you can see, then you really need to have a reality check and begin frequenting other places. Stop looking for the hype and start paying attention to the successful marketers that don't deal in it. There are many of them and they are willing to help you.

    Steve
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    Steve Browne, online business strategies, tips, guidance, and resources
    SteveBrowneDirect

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  • Profile picture of the author Isaiah Nixon
    Making money online with IM is one of those niches that never dies and s too profitable to leave so gurus won't leave, there's also people that genuinely want to help people and thiis is how they make their living helping people. You can market other stuff but normally when you look up internet marketing it's to make money so it will inevitably lead back to products on how to make money. There are a near infinite amount of niches that people market, dog training, natural disaster relief, zombie apocalypse prep, vegan body building on a budget, nuclear winter agricultural techniques, ebony foot fetish toys, etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author George Schwab
    Re: "Did you ever encounter a really exciting and helpful offer? "

    yeah, but it has been a while. These days I only look for very
    specific, evergreen kind of services or products. All the "wonder
    packages" where you have to guess whats inside are not my
    kind of thing, its usually kiddo stuff, but there are exceptions,
    once in a while a talented guy that actually discovers something
    new, but its rare. Get 10 'common knowledge' warmups to
    find one good one.

    Better idea is to consider what you really need, well, thats
    easy, a website, a domain name, a product and some traffic.

    So why try to reinvent the wheel, all people online need the
    same things, then why not offer it to them. Become a website
    specialist, or a domain reseller, create a product, or modify
    one or sell one of the many traffic products. Nothing moves
    without traffic. Boils all down to advertising. What does Google
    sell - Seo courses? Of course not: advertising. You dont need
    to touch anything else, advertising, traffic, or public relations,
    its all the same. Nothing happens until something moves.
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  • Profile picture of the author Splatterfox
    Originally Posted by MValmont View Post

    Haha isn't it amazing?

    I can't even believe what I'm reading.

    This thread is the absolute proof that it is all about the mindset.

    Really some people have such a weak mindset that is it literally IMPOSSIBLE for them to achieve anything in life.
    Maybe this is more like a moral question. You can't tell me that numerous of these sellers know that they are selling BS. I'm totally with you, this is impossible to generalize, but personally I wouldn't be able to accept the fact that I'm selling useless information on the internet for money all the time. (Again: just a generalization to make the point clear).

    Originally Posted by Jeff Griffiths View Post

    I know EXACTLY what you mean. I've been dabbling in the IM world for almost a decade now and things haven't changed that much.

    It reminds me of John Chow's famous quote "I make money online by telling other people how I make money online". A bit of the snake eating its own tail.

    I think the reason that everyone wants to push the get rich quick schemes is the fact that it's exactly what people want. They just want a push button solution to make money online.

    Over the years I've discovered that opportunities to make a lot of money quickly are often short term. On the other hand, building out a massive website takes a long time, yet provides the most longevity overall.

    If a method is quick and easy, everyone will do it, competition rises, checks and balances arise. These methods, usually Blackhat in nature, tend to burn out quickly.

    I highly doubt this will ever change. It's just part of the dynamic.

    The best advice I could give any newcomer is to think long term and invest heavily in long term projects. You won't see money as fast but you'll definitely learn a lot more and have the opportunity to build real assets.
    Yes thats it. Its what the people want to see, and in times of working from home hype and tons of success stories this is what sells.

    Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

    Splatterfox,

    You see what you want to see.

    Honestly, is "every offer and every salespage" really just about "my simple trick to generate $328.21 a day"? Hardly. That's not what I see at all.

    You don't really believe what you just said here, do you? "every single marketer seems to have his own 'get rich easy' program." I'm a marketer and I don't have any such thing. And I know lots of other IMers that don't sell get rich easy programs.

    If that's honestly all that you can see, then you really need to have a reality check and begin frequenting other places. Stop looking for the hype and start paying attention to the successful marketers that don't deal in it. There are many of them and they are willing to help you.

    Steve
    Sorry, of course this was a stupid generalization. I used these terms to emphasize my point of view. I'm completely aware of the fact that there are a lot of people who don't do it. But by now, the majority of people I encounter do.

    Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

    Another angle to consider in the case where someone only sells how to make money online stuff. I know a few respected "gurus" in that category. I know of these gurus because I bought their stuff. I bought their stuff because they know how to market and get the sale. So, doesn't the fact that they can sell these things, with so many people yelling scam, so many detractors, etc. prove they know what they are doing? Some would say that a guy that can sell a how to get rich book can also sell a how to lose weight book or a fly fishing book or a repairing car engines book because they know how to sell. Do you agree or disagree?

    Mark
    Thats what I mean. Sure, you can use the argument that they market their product in a good way if it gets tons of sales. But what about future sales? What about satisfying their customers to make longterm money? I know that this isn't the case every time but I know tons of marketers who released their products and then witnessed a huge shitstorm because everyone said how bad it is. The results are tons of refunds and a bad name. So in the long run delivering "made up" content for the sole purpose of selling it quickly won't pay off in my opinion.
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    • Profile picture of the author MValmont
      Originally Posted by Splatterfox View Post

      Maybe this is more like a moral question. You can't tell me that numerous of these sellers know that they are selling BS. I'm totally with you, this is impossible to generalize, but personally I wouldn't be able to accept the fact that I'm selling useless information on the internet for money all the time. (Again: just a generalization to make the point clear).



      Yes thats it. Its what the people want to see, and in times of working from home hype and tons of success stories this is what sells.



      Sorry, of course this was a stupid generalization. I used these terms to emphasize my point of view. I'm completely aware of the fact that there are a lot of people who don't do it. But by now, the majority of people I encounter do.



      Thats what I mean. Sure, you can use the argument that they market their product in a good way if it gets tons of sales. But what about future sales? What about satisfying their customers to make longterm money? I know that this isn't the case every time but I know tons of marketers who released their products and then witnessed a huge shitstorm because everyone said how bad it is. The results are tons of refunds and a bad name. So in the long run delivering "made up" content for the sole purpose of selling it quickly won't pay off in my opinion.
      "but personally I wouldn't be able to accept the fact that I'm selling useless information on the internet for money all the time"

      That's your problem right there. Who are you to say that these people are selling useless information ? I actually went through A LOT of online marketing program (more than 20) and maybe only 2 or 3 of them sucked and all the other ones were amazing.

      It seems to me that some people think all of these programs are scam. Why is it that I watched amazing programs?

      Is it that the program sucked or is it that the person watching the program suck? That's the real question.

      Some people are not meant to do online marketing.

      IT IS NOT FOR EVERYBODY. Only a small % can be business owner and online marketing is owning a business.

      You have to be proactive, you have to be able to find solutions and you have to be able to work hard to make it work. Nobody's going to take your hand and do it for you.

      Do you have what it takes?
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      • Profile picture of the author Splatterfox
        Originally Posted by MValmont View Post

        "but personally I wouldn't be able to accept the fact that I'm selling useless information on the internet for money all the time"

        That's your problem right there. Who are you to say that these people are selling useless information ? I actually went through A LOT of online marketing program (more than 20) and maybe only 2 or 3 of them sucked and all the other ones were amazing.

        It seems to me that some people think all of these programs are scam. Why is it that I watched amazing programs?

        Is it that the program sucked or is it that the person watching the program suck? That's the real question.

        Some people are not meant to do online marketing.

        IT IS NOT FOR EVERYBODY. Only a small % can be business owner and online marketing is owning a business.

        You have to be proactive, you have to be able to find solutions and you have to be able to work hard to make it work. Nobody's going to take your hand and do it for you.

        Do you have what it takes?
        I'm not even translating this to myself, since like I said I ran several successful E-Commerce Businesses and also an E-Commerce Agency.

        And yes, this is true, if you find some good products it is definetly worth the money, I totally believe this. I'm looking at the whole thing more from the seller perspective ("why are so many (NOT all) people selling complete useless information") than the buyer perspective ("how can I identify a good product").
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Originally Posted by MValmont View Post

        [B] I actually went through A LOT of online marketing program (more than 20) and maybe only 2 or 3 of them sucked and all the other ones were amazing.
        I have always ( and experienced) the same thing. About 90% of the stuff I have purchased I have gained tid bits of Gold nuggets, Sometimes truckloads of it


        - Robert Andrew
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
      Originally Posted by Splatterfox View Post

      Thats what I mean. Sure, you can use the argument that they market their product in a good way if it gets tons of sales. But what about future sales? What about satisfying their customers to make longterm money?
      I agree that how you sell a product is just as important as the quality of what you sell.

      Here's how we avoid the trap of facing that shitstorm..

      We manage expectations.. by being realistic about what's possible and also..

      A lot of sales are made by inducing fear and pain..

      ..and while that has its place, customers that purchase solely to avoid feeling that pain do not become good customers..

      Some marketers won't care about that.

      Others do.

      So we don't focus entirely on the pain.. we agitate the wound.. remind them of why they are reading the sales page.. it but never open up their wound and pour salt on it.

      You can get quick results focusing predominantly on the pain, but it's a lazy and amateurish way to get a sale.

      The next time you look at a sales page, examine the copy.. see how it's constructed.. that will tell you a lot about the person behind it.. but that is, if they even wrote it themselves.

      ##

      But Splatterfox, imagine that you.. with all your knowledge and experience of Ecommerce.. created a tutorial that showed someone how you did that.. got to where you are today..

      ..you'd be perfectly within your rights to do that, and you'd probably be smart to do that too because there's a demand for that kind of information.
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  • Profile picture of the author MValmont
    Well here is a fact for you: I know a lot of people selling products in the Making money online niche and ALL OF THEM are making money outside of this niche.

    I can't even imagine someone create a product about something he doesn't know anything about. It would almost be impossible actually...
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    • Profile picture of the author Splatterfox
      Originally Posted by MValmont View Post

      Well here is a fact for you: I know a lot of people selling products in the Making money online niche and ALL OF THEM are making money outside of this niche.

      I can't even imagine someone create a product about something he doesn't know anything about. It would almost be impossible actually...
      This is what I mean, because I encountered this extremely often (not personally but people I know and even clients). They told me that it was absolute obvious nonsense they paid for and therefore lost trust in these products. I guess this, combined with seeing them basically everywhere from YouTube to Blogs, Clickbank and WF, lead me to the pretty straightforward thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author TaxMaster
    OP has a point despite some of the feedback I've been wondering this myself. I've followed on here for quite some time and it does seem that everyone is trying to tell everyone else how to make money but not necessarily exactly how they actually have done it.... Not to say that there aren't plenty of legit people on here but it does get overwhelming at times and I have wondered the EXACT same thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve B
      Originally Posted by TaxMaster View Post

      I've followed on here for quite some time and it does seem that everyone is trying to tell everyone else how to make money but not necessarily exactly how they actually have done it

      Let me ask you,

      What responsibility or obligation does anyone here have to open up their business in a public forum setting for, in your words . . . "exactly how they actually have done it?" There is none.

      A number of years ago I opened up on this forum about one of my businesses to try to help a member here who was struggling. Do you know what happened? Within a week, two different members of this forum had cloned my site and stolen my content. I mean, they hadn't just taken my ideas . . . they had blatantly stolen, word for word, my sales page, my blog posts, my contact and opt-in forms - everything.

      I learned my lesson and don't even divulge my URLs or even all my niches now because I know what will happen if I do.

      Here's the thing . . . every member of this forum has a different set of skills, talents, background, life experiences, education, work ethic, risk tolerance, time available to do IM, income goals or requirements, etc, etc, etc.

      People on this forum have to find their own path to profitability.

      Even if someone came here and spent full time breaking their business down and divulging everything they did for a month, there would be lots of people here that wouldn't be able to take that guidance and create a successful business. They wouldn't have the drive, the persistence, even the desire to do all that was necessary to create a business online. They wouldn't have the personality, the knowledge, or the expertise of the successful owner.

      So while I would agree that lots of members don't "spill their guts" and explain every little detail of what they're doing, that shouldn't be a knock on this forum where questions are asked and good people try to do their best to respond to those questions. After all, this forum is about making money so why shouldn't the emphasis be on "telling people how to make money" as you stated?

      To me, no one has the time or ability (on a public forum) to answer silly broad questions like "show me what you're doing to be successful" or "help me start a profitable online business." There is too much involved to explain everything in great detail like some people are asking.

      To me, the best approach for getting good help on this forum is to first, try to find the answer yourself. Do some research, some digging. Then, if you are still confused, ask a very specific question at the forum. You will get much more and better help because you will have already researched the subject and you will be able to ask the right questions.

      If you just come here with an "entitlement" attitude, people will sense that and not be so eager to assist you. Also, if you ask broad questions, you'll get mostly broad useless answers.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author TaxMaster
        Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

        Let me ask you,

        What responsibility or obligation does anyone here have to open up their business in a public forum setting for, in your words . . . "exactly how they actually have done it?" There is none.

        A number of years ago I opened up on this forum about one of my businesses to try to help a member here who was struggling. Do you know what happened? Within a week, two different members of this forum had cloned my site and stolen my content. I mean, they hadn't just taken my ideas . . . they had blatantly stolen, word for word, my sales page, my blog posts, my contact and opt-in forms - everything.

        I learned my lesson and don't even divulge my URLs or even all my niches now because I know what will happen if I do.

        Here's the thing . . . every member of this forum has a different set of skills, talents, background, life experiences, education, work ethic, risk tolerance, time available to do IM, income goals or requirements, etc, etc, etc.

        People on this forum have to find their own path to profitability.

        Even if someone came here and spent full time breaking their business down and divulging everything they did for a month, there would be lots of people here that wouldn't be able to take that guidance and create a successful business. They wouldn't have the drive, the persistence, even the desire to do all that was necessary to create a business online. They wouldn't have the personality, the knowledge, or the expertise of the successful owner.

        So while I would agree that lots of members don't "spill their guts" and explain every little detail of what they're doing, that shouldn't be a knock on this forum where questions are asked and good people try to do their best to respond to those questions. After all, this forum is about making money so why shouldn't the emphasis be on "telling people how to make money" as you stated?

        To me, no one has the time or ability (on a public forum) to answer silly broad questions like "show me what you're doing to be successful" or "help me start a profitable online business." There is too much involved to explain everything in great detail like some people are asking.

        To me, the best approach for getting good help on this forum is to first, try to find the answer yourself. Do some research, some digging. Then, if you are still confused, ask a very specific question at the forum. You will get much more and better help because you will have already researched the subject and you will be able to ask the right questions.

        If you just come here with an "entitlement" attitude, people will sense that and not be so eager to assist you. Also, if you ask broad questions, you'll get mostly broad useless answers.

        Steve
        Well said Steve, but I guess I didn't mean exactly as in hey here's this niche now you go here now you do this. I think it seems much more to be "find a niche and build a list". That's not exactly helpful I think you can do a general google search to find that information out. So to be in a forum where it is supposed to be like-minded individuals discussing a similar matter, you'd think that you could get further clarification.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steve B
          Originally Posted by TaxMaster View Post

          Well said Steve, but I guess I didn't mean exactly as in hey here's this niche now you go here now you do this. I think it seems much more to be "find a niche and build a list". That's not exactly helpful

          I agree with you, but I think what I mentioned in my post is still relevant.

          Ask very specific questions after having tried to research the answer yourself first. You're bound to get many varied answers and by researching the question before you ask it, you should be able to tell which forum responses come from knowledgeable and experienced marketers and which come from clueless people just trying to expose the link in their signature.

          Here's an important key to profitable online business: often the success or failure of your business will depend upon how you implement (then execute daily) the very tiny details of what you're doing.

          Anyone can come on this forum and spout the very broad and high level view of what it takes to make money online. They'll give a ten-step plan that includes things like research your market, build a subscriber list, offer affiliate products in your niche, build a sales funnel, get traffic with solo ads, put lots of content on your site, yada, yada, yada.

          While those things may technically be important, they are not particularly helpful to someone who has no experience in that task. That's why they need to research first so they have a general understanding of the basics, then start doing whatever it is and ask specific questions at the forum when they can't figure something out for themselves.

          I think most of the legitimately successful business owners that are members here are willing to try to give good honest answers to such questions when they can.

          But when members ask questions that would take 2 hours to answer, they get a lot of responses from people faking their credentials as a profitable business owners or they get very broad, mostly useless responses because the real answers would take too long in this forum setting.

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Leli
    IM and MMO are two very different things; what you are talking about is MMO.
    I make a living full time in IM but have never touched the MMO niche and plan to stay away from it...too much refunds, complaints, scam products, and possibly legal repercussions...
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    • Profile picture of the author MValmont
      Originally Posted by Leli View Post

      IM and MMO are two very different things; what you are talking about is MMO.
      I make a living full time in IM but have never touched the MMO niche and plan to stay away from it...too much refunds, complaints, scam products, and possibly legal repercussions...

      I have a 2 or 3% refund rate on my MMO product.
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  • Profile picture of the author discrat
    I have been in MMO Niche for just over 2 years now. There is no question that a a seedy segment exist in it but I have found a lot that are not.

    Many of the people like myself started of in non-mmo niches. I really kind of advise that. But I guess it is not a necessary prerequisite.




    - Robert Andrew
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  • Profile picture of the author Splatterfox
    Originally Posted by TaxMaster View Post

    OP has a point despite some of the feedback I've been wondering this myself. I've followed on here for quite some time and it does seem that everyone is trying to tell everyone else how to make money but not necessarily exactly how they actually have done it.... Not to say that there aren't plenty of legit people on here but it does get overwhelming at times and I have wondered the EXACT same thing.
    Exactly what I meant.

    Originally Posted by Leli View Post

    IM and MMO are two very different things; what you are talking about is MMO.
    I make a living full time in IM but have never touched the MMO niche and plan to stay away from it...too much refunds, complaints, scam products, and possibly legal repercussions...
    You are right, I expressed myself a little wrong. To the MMO category it is more or less completely transferable though.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    I never even tested MMO type offers until I joined this forum. There was a lot of free traffic to be had and as a marketer, I couldn't pass that up.

    The offers you have a problem with only exist because that's what the majority of people want. They are not looking for a "blueprint", that implies effort.

    Also, if someone only makes money online by "teaching" others, they are still making money online which would kind of blow the whole, "Those who can't, teach" philosophy right out the water.
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  • Profile picture of the author DIABL0
    Everyone thinks that to make money on the internet, that you have to sell something.

    For the past 16+ year, I have been promoting PPL (pay per lead) offers. The reason why is very simple...there is no credit card / purchase required to complete an offer. All a user has to do is fill out a form, so conversion rates are typically much higher than offers that require a sale.

    I favor PPL offers that have a make, get or save money angle / benefit to them. This is what has overall worked the best for me and tends to have the greatest amount of mass appeal, so the potential to produce high volume exists.

    There are many PPL offers that pay $40-$60 per lead that work well on front-en campaigns. There are those that pay less and more. The payout is not the sole determining factor. You can have an offer that pays $8-$9 and if it converts at 2X+ of a $20 offer, then it's going to perform about the same. On the other side, you could have an offer that pays $90 and if it converts poorly, it may not even be worth running. So don't get caught up on just the payout.

    Examples of offers: Insurance, education, mortgage, loans credit, assistance, etc...

    Also, it of great importance to split test offers. In any vertical, there will be offers that out performs all the others. If your not testing to find which have the highest conversion rates, you will likely be leaving significant money on the table.

    Lead generation is a huge industry and big money. The best part is there is nothing to sell.

    With any offer, you still need to be able to generate traffic. I have always generated traffic through buying targeted data(email). That way instead of paying for traffic, I'm building assets that I then own and can market to over and over. That way I then own the traffic and can generate it on demand.

    If generation traffic isn't something you are good at. Then you could consider developing your own offers and getting affiliates. But that's a whole other topic.

    Anyway, something to think about.
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  • Profile picture of the author aizaku
    what's your opinion?
    just look for marketers that have success outside of IM..

    Google their name, check out their case studies etc....

    Did you ever encounter a really exciting and helpful offer?
    yes, I can personally vouch for mark lings products and gauher chaudrys products..

    i also get a lot of great ideas from Neil Patel and Pat Flynn..


    What kind of courses do you sell yourself (if you do)?
    i promote a lot of Mark Ling's products because they've helped me out in the past.. I'm currently working on a product where i show ppl how I profit with downloadable prints. Like you, I run an eCommerce site.

    -Ike Paz
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  • Profile picture of the author maxsi
    ah aha ha => Nominated for BS post of the day!

    funny
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  • Profile picture of the author William Waltham
    I've bought some "make money online" products in the past that actually made me some money. But, I followed them to the letter. Taking action and actually following instructions is something a lot of people won't do. Then, they call the product a fraud if it doesn't work for them.

    Of course, the people who made these courses likely used these methods themselves and had success with them before making them into a course, or they wouldn't actually work for anyone. I think that's the difference between a fraud product and a real one. There are definitely some real ones out there.

    Even the ones I didn't follow through with, I usually found to be educational, so I got value from that.

    These days, I make my income through offering services, and through selling e-books on Amazon. I don't really need those "how to make money online" products anymore, because I know how to make money online. But, every now and then, one will catch my eye and I might buy it and read it out of curiosity. There's always something new to learn.
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