GOOD WAYS to avoid BAD CLIENTS

24 replies
After five years and almost one thousand projects, give it or take, I believe I have come up with a handful of more or less reliable signs that you're dealing with a bad client. I haven't reinvented the wheel, that's for sure. It's just like in that saying. Maybe I don't know what I want, but I certainly know what I don't want. The same goes here. Maybe I don't know how to find a good client, but I certainly know how to avoid a bad one. Also, I'm far from an ideal list. Sharing experiences regarding bad clients can help a lot. After all, we play in the same team. In addition, I strongly believe in Good Karma principle. Meaning, there's plenty of room and clients for everybody.

Deal with real people not with avatars

Again, there are no guarantees. However, by bitter experience taught me that clients hiding behind avatars and funny usernames should be treated with extra care. On the other hand, you have real people with real names. Usually, the owners of companies include their full name and surname, phone numbers, the address of the company, and similar. You see a photo of the real person, smiling or not, but that's not the point. I'm not implying that you won't have problems with these clients who don't have problems with transparency, but I'm saying you won't have the problems, associated with payments and reliability. You may end up in a disagreement, but at least you won't have to worry about being paid for your job. Ah, one more thing. Keep an eye on Skype. Warning signs. A client who refuses to talk and prefer to type. OK, if it is only once, but if the client avoids to talk, then ask yourself why. Also, if there's no Skype picture, you should be also extra careful. Avoiding to turn on camera from time to time is also a bad sign. I remember some guys I used to work with. They used to turn on Skype camera during the first call. So, I have to say, I haven't had a single problem with them.

Why so serious?

I personally have a huge problem with people in both private and professional life, who lack even the minimal ability to enjoy and share the positive sense of humor. I'm not saying that you should be best buddies with your clients, but at least, you should test your client's preferences when it comes to humor. I like to leave lucid jokes in emails or messages, just to see the reaction. Those clients playing tough and deadly serious all the time, usually have something to hide. Again, you should know where is the fine line you shouldn't cross. Otherwise, your client may think you are some kind of an entertainer rather than a reliable worker. This approach is something I borrowed from my personal life. I often had some serious discussions with my wife and even the disagreements. When we meet some people, I just feel very uncomfortable when they either don't like or miss to offer jokes. Most of these guys turn out to be not so reliable for long term friendships.

No working history - No trust

This is something specific and important for the world of freelancers. It's easy for a freelancer to notice a potential trouble when a client doesn't have a single reference. I always check the date a client created his account. Also, what is the number of total projects. What is the ratio of open and closed projects. What's the situation with the clients you may find outside freelance platforms? For example on LinkedIn? Well, discussing previous employer's working history can be a good way to get some idea what kind of a client you are dealing with.

Just had a bad day test

Here's a simple and a pretty much effective thing you can do as soon as you establish the first contact. Very often when being asked how was my day or a week, I start talking about a story that is both fictional and true one at the same time. As you might have guessed I borrow elements from here and there. I tell the current or the future client, depending on the stage of our current negotiations, how I just finished a business relationship with a client who was either difficult to work with, unreliable, unresponsive, not honoring his payments, and similar. Usually the stuff I'm worried or suspecting that I may experience with the new client. Then, I closely monitor the reaction. It is in our nature to support and defend our group we believe we belong to. In other words, if a fellow freelancer or colleague experiences a problem with his employer then you are more than likely to sympathize with him. I guess the same applies to employers. If a client defends other clients no matter what, then this kind of behavior should be treated as a warning sign. On the other side, if a client clearly wants to draw a line between these bad guys and himself, then you shouldn't worry too much. It's like you heard someone saying. I'm not like them. This has nothing to do with me.

Devil is in the details that often don't make any sense

Being on alert can be quite an exhausting activity. I know it and I totally understand it. You should worry about your job rather than to play hide and sick with your employer. So, this story only makes sense as a preventive measure. You need to identify a problematic client at the very beginning before you even begin with the work. However, this doesn't mean that you should be carefree all the time. Do your homework. Scan and test your client as much as you can before you decide whether or not you should work with him in the first place. Then, just relax and do your work. Don't be android paranoid all the time. At the same time, don't ignore your intuition. Be prepared to accept the unexpected. I read somewhere that you need your brains to work, but you also need your stomach to survive out there in the freelance wilderness. If I feel that something is wrong, it doesn't mean that is necessarily bad. However, this means that I should pay some extra attention and do my best to check the situation.

The basic presumption is that clients are bad rather than good

If you interpret this point quite literally then you are going to end up in a trouble of not being able to do a single job. Have you seen at least one post-apocalyptic TV show? Well, usually the hero and his group are some decent guys living and fighting in the tough world. They don't treat all survivors as the bad people, but they presume that all those guys out there aren't roaming around with good intentions. I approach every new client with a grain of salt. Then I wait and hope that he or she will prove me wrong. Hope we can agree that this is much better scenario compared with the situation where your basic presumption is that all clients are cool guys who won't do you harm under any circumstances.

Final thoughts

Trust me I did my very best to describe something that is very often quite an intuitive process for me. I told you already. There are no guarantees. I would also like to learn something new. I would like to hear from some warrior what could be the warning signs I'm not aware of. Finally, the most important thing to remember is that successful prevention is the key. Once you found yourself in the unhealthy working relationship then it is too late. Usually. The catch is to identify the problem before it becomes the problem for you. To say to a potential client, thank you but not thank you. I also realized that a bad client actually gives you two problems. The first time when he ruins your working opportunity with his project. The second time when you lose time, energy, and nerves you should have invested in your other client waiting in a line. So, it's a double damage.

If I helped at least one warrior avoid at least one bad client then I call this thread a success. If I learn or read about at least one new warning sign, I would also feel the same way. If some of you find this thread to be not as good as you expected it to be, I will understand. I would really like to come up with a list of warning signs that will work and protect me all the time with a guarantee. Yet, this is the real life we are talking about. So, keep your eyes open and share your bad experiences with all the good guys trying to find reliable clients just like you. Good luck and may only the good clients come your way.
#avoid #bad #clients #good #ways
  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    Originally Posted by neshaword View Post

    After five years and almost one thousand projects, give it or take, I believe I have come up with a handful of more or less reliable signs that you're dealing with a bad client. I haven't reinvented the wheel, that's for sure. It's just like in that saying. Maybe I don't know what I want, but I certainly know what I don't want. The same goes here. Maybe I don't know how to find a good client, but I certainly know how to avoid a bad one. Also, I'm far from an ideal list. Sharing experiences regarding bad clients can help a lot. After all, we play in the same team. In addition, I strongly believe in Good Karma principle. Meaning, there's plenty of room and clients for everybody.

    Deal with real people not with avatars

    Again, there are no guarantees. However, by bitter experience taught me that clients hiding behind avatars and funny usernames should be treated with extra care. On the other hand, you have real people with real names. Usually, the owners of companies include their full name and surname, phone numbers, the address of the company, and similar. You see a photo of the real person, smiling or not, but that's not the point. I'm not implying that you won't have problems with these clients who don't have problems with transparency, but I'm saying you won't have the problems, associated with payments and reliability. You may end up in a disagreement, but at least you won't have to worry about being paid for your job. Ah, one more thing. Keep an eye on Skype. Warning signs. A client who refuses to talk and prefer to type. OK, if it is only once, but if the client avoids to talk, then ask yourself why. Also, if there's no Skype picture, you should be also extra careful. Avoiding to turn on camera from time to time is also a bad sign. I remember some guys I used to work with. They used to turn on Skype camera during the first call. So, I have to say, I haven't had a single problem with them.

    Why so serious?

    I personally have a huge problem with people in both private and professional life, who lack even the minimal ability to enjoy and share the positive sense of humor. I'm not saying that you should be best buddies with your clients, but at least, you should test your client's preferences when it comes to humor. I like to leave lucid jokes in emails or messages, just to see the reaction. Those clients playing tough and deadly serious all the time, usually have something to hide. Again, you should know where is the fine line you shouldn't cross. Otherwise, your client may think you are some kind of an entertainer rather than a reliable worker. This approach is something I borrowed from my personal life. I often had some serious discussions with my wife and even the disagreements. When we meet some people, I just feel very uncomfortable when they either don't like or miss to offer jokes. Most of these guys turn out to be not so reliable for long term friendships.

    No working history - No trust

    This is something specific and important for the world of freelancers. It's easy for a freelancer to notice a potential trouble when a client doesn't have a single reference. I always check the date a client created his account. Also, what is the number of total projects. What is the ratio of open and closed projects. What's the situation with the clients you may find outside freelance platforms? For example on LinkedIn? Well, discussing previous employer's working history can be a good way to get some idea what kind of a client you are dealing with.

    Just had a bad day test

    Here's a simple and a pretty much effective thing you can do as soon as you establish the first contact. Very often when being asked how was my day or a week, I start talking about a story that is both fictional and true one at the same time. As you might have guessed I borrow elements from here and there. I tell the current or the future client, depending on the stage of our current negotiations, how I just finished a business relationship with a client who was either difficult to work with, unreliable, unresponsive, not honoring his payments, and similar. Usually the stuff I'm worried or suspecting that I may experience with the new client. Then, I closely monitor the reaction. It is in our nature to support and defend our group we believe we belong to. In other words, if a fellow freelancer or colleague experiences a problem with his employer then you are more than likely to sympathize with him. I guess the same applies to employers. If a client defends other clients no matter what, then this kind of behavior should be treated as a warning sign. On the other side, if a client clearly wants to draw a line between these bad guys and himself, then you shouldn't worry too much. It's like you heard someone saying. I'm not like them. This has nothing to do with me.

    Devil is in the details that often don't make any sense

    Being on alert can be quite an exhausting activity. I know it and I totally understand it. You should worry about your job rather than to play hide and sick with your employer. So, this story only makes sense as a preventive measure. You need to identify a problematic client at the very beginning before you even begin with the work. However, this doesn't mean that you should be carefree all the time. Do your homework. Scan and test your client as much as you can before you decide whether or not you should work with him in the first place. Then, just relax and do your work. Don't be android paranoid all the time. At the same time, don't ignore your intuition. Be prepared to accept the unexpected. I read somewhere that you need your brains to work, but you also need your stomach to survive out there in the freelance wilderness. If I feel that something is wrong, it doesn't mean that is necessarily bad. However, this means that I should pay some extra attention and do my best to check the situation.

    The basic presumption is that clients are bad rather than good

    If you interpret this point quite literally then you are going to end up in a trouble of not being able to do a single job. Have you seen at least one post-apocalyptic TV show? Well, usually the hero and his group are some decent guys living and fighting in the tough world. They don't treat all survivors as the bad people, but they presume that all those guys out there aren't roaming around with good intentions. I approach every new client with a grain of salt. Then I wait and hope that he or she will prove me wrong. Hope we can agree that this is much better scenario compared with the situation where your basic presumption is that all clients are cool guys who won't do you harm under any circumstances.

    Final thoughts

    Trust me I did my very best to describe something that is very often quite an intuitive process for me. I told you already. There are no guarantees. I would also like to learn something new. I would like to hear from some warrior what could be the warning signs I'm not aware of. Finally, the most important thing to remember is that successful prevention is the key. Once you found yourself in the unhealthy working relationship then it is too late. Usually. The catch is to identify the problem before it becomes the problem for you. To say to a potential client, thank you but not thank you. I also realized that a bad client actually gives you two problems. The first time when he ruins your working opportunity with his project. The second time when you lose time, energy, and nerves you should have invested in your other client waiting in a line. So, it's a double damage.

    If I helped at least one warrior avoid at least one bad client then I call this thread a success. If I learn or read about at least one new warning sign, I would also feel the same way. If some of you find this thread to be not as good as you expected it to be, I will understand. I would really like to come up with a list of warning signs that will work and protect me all the time with a guarantee. Yet, this is the real life we are talking about. So, keep your eyes open and share your bad experiences with all the good guys trying to find reliable clients just like you. Good luck and may only the good clients come your way.
    Well, after 550+ posts, not sure if you helped any warrior avoid a bad client, but you've given us story after story of your conflicts with many of those 1000 people who hired you and would not hire you again.

    So, I don't know if you have helped anyone avoid a bad client or not, you have helped at least one of us, to avoid a bad writer we wouldn't want to get involved with,

    thanks for that.

    GordonJ
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    • Profile picture of the author attackdome
      Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

      Well, after 550+ posts, not sure if you helped any warrior avoid a bad client, but you've given us story after story of your conflicts with many of those 1000 people who hired you and would not hire you again.

      So, I don't know if you have helped anyone avoid a bad client or not, you have helped at least one of us, to avoid a bad writer we wouldn't want to get involved with,

      thanks for that.

      GordonJ
      Woah! Haha. What's the story behind this situation? Nevermind. I don't wanna get involved
      Signature

      Moderator's Note: Affiliate link not allowed. Please edit.

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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Originally Posted by attackdome View Post

        Woah! Haha. What's the story behind this situation? Nevermind. I don't wanna get involved
        Link exposure attackdome? There is NO situation, I responded to this guy's post. There is nothing for you to get involved with. He has over 500 posts and some of those are about his negative experiences with his clients.

        There is no reason for you to WHOA anything here. It isn't personal, just a response, but thanks for sharing your affiliate link with us, nonetheless.

        GordonJ

        PS. I'm an admitted link whore myself, but I don't post me too, oh my or drive by posts just for the link, fair enough?

        OH and FYI, your sig file is a link to an affiliate offer, which violates the rules of the WF, WHOA!
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve B
    Originally Posted by neshaword View Post

    If I helped at least one warrior avoid at least one bad client then I call this thread a success.

    Neshaword,

    I was anxious to read all about good ways to avoid bad clients. But after reading your lengthy prose, I'm scratching my head wondering just exactly where those ways are. All you talked about was how you identify bad clients you've worked with. That's fine, but where are the ways to avoid them in the first place? That was the promise of your thread.

    Steve
    Signature

    Steve Browne, online business strategies, tips, guidance, and resources
    SteveBrowneDirect

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    • Profile picture of the author desireedavid
      He lost me at the 4th paragraph...
      Signature
      “Creativity is intelligence having fun.” – Albert Einstein
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      • Profile picture of the author neshaword
        Originally Posted by desireedavid View Post

        He lost me at the 4th paragraph...
        If I may ask, do you mean you lost me at the 4th paragraph because it was a boring read, or you had a similar experience with your client as described in the previous 3 paragraphs? Just being curious. Thx in advance. N
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    As I've been client as often as freelancer in the past dozen years - here's my response.

    I realize your threads are for the WF and (again) being edited to remove negative comments but this stuff should not be allowed to stand without rebuttal... I'd hate to think a new freelancer (or a new client) would see this and think your 'requirements' are the norm.

    Deal with Real People

    Warning signs. A client who refuses to talk and prefer to type. OK, if it is only once, but if the client avoids to talk, then ask yourself why.

    The "why" is because I don't care to chitchat with everyone. I prefer email where I can be specific, have what I say on record, and control time spent on the interaction.

    Avoiding to turn on camera from time to time is also a bad sign

    What your client looks like is none of your business. I had real life safety reasons to keep my photo off the internet when I began working online....I've chosen to keep it that way. If a freelancer insists I must be "on camera" to hire him - I'll hire someone else.
    Bad Day Test

    Very often when being asked how was my day or a week, I start talking about a story that is both fictional and true one at the same time.

    As a freelancer, any time a client asks how my day or week is going the answer is "great". Nothing else. I don't waste a client's time with personal issues or telling fictional stories.

    As a client - I hire people to do specific tasks for me. I aim to be pleasant and friendly but I'm not interested in details of their life as a rule - or in listening to their stories.

    So Serious

    I like to leave lucid jokes in emails or messages, just to see the reaction. Those clients playing tough and deadly serious all the time, usually have something to hide

    Clients who are serious have work to do - and have hired you to do some of it. They have family and friends they joke with - but you are hired to do a job, not to entertain them or waste their time with non-work correspondence. If a client doesn't respond to a joke - take the hint!

    I just feel very uncomfortable when they either don't like or miss to offer jokes. Most of these guys turn out to be not so reliable for long term friendships.

    That is strange to me. Why are clients who PAY you responsible for making you feel comfortable or providing you with friendship?

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    January was long, February was iffy, March was a freaking dumpster fire.
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    • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I realize your threads are for the WF and (again) being edited to remove negative comments
      Yes it's quite amazing how the mods can find these negative comments,
      but are completely blind to bot spam, self promotion, affiliate links in sig files to name but a few.
      But not to worry, many more threads like this and there will be nobody left here.
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      • Profile picture of the author DABK
        They removed my post in which I agreed with you. Clearly, nothing negative in me agreeing with you, so WTF?

        Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

        Yes it's quite amazing how the mods can find these negative comments,
        but are completely blind to bot spam, self promotion, affiliate links in sig files to name but a few.
        But not to worry, many more threads like this and there will be nobody left here.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10895806].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author gpacx
    Having worked as a Freelance writer for quite a long time, I can definitely understand why you go to great lengths to ensure that you're working with decent employers and building good relationships. It's a little ironic that you specifically addressed the fact that unpleasant employers would defend each other and immediately a bunch of people started telling you why your guidelines were unreasonable and why none of your employers would hire you again.

    My experience as a freelancer has been that I have formed the closest personal relationships with the clients that have paid me the most money. Working on Freelancer, you can only rely so much on the trust and verification process that the website provides - but this isn't like working in person. A lot of people don't have unlimited funds and won't be doing a four-figure deal with you unless they see your face or have your business number, and not everybody has a business number.

    The reality for Freelancers is that we build our clientele by forming personal relationships with our clients. We get engaged in their projects. We talk to them about how things are going. We offer to help above and beyond and sometimes outside our own areas of expertise, and we work hard to over-deliver on projects when we know that our work will be well received.

    To the employers that are being critical of this post - I can totally understand why it is that you conduct yourselves the way that you do, and on a professional level, I completely respect that. That being said, I read your posts and I can say that when I've had employers with your attitude and tone in the past, it was ultimately unpleasant to work with them and the relationship didn't last for too long. If you're looking to use me for a project and never speak to me again, I'm totally fine with that, but you probably won't find out all the ways that I can build value into your business because you didn't take the time.

    I haven't hired that many freelancers so I don't really know what it's like to build a working or personal relationship in the opposite direction, I only know what it's like to try and build rapport with your employer and have them be totally unaffected by friendliness and cordiality. Businesses are about people - you have to get team members, even Freelancers, that will help you out and treating everyone like an ultra-professional business contact only isn't going to build that relationship.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by gpacx View Post

      Having worked as a Freelance writer for quite a long time, I can definitely understand why you go to great lengths to ensure that you're working with decent employers and building good relationships. It's a little ironic that you specifically addressed the fact that unpleasant employers would defend each other and immediately a bunch of people started telling you why your guidelines were unreasonable and why none of your employers would hire you again.

      My experience as a freelancer has been that I have formed the closest personal relationships with the clients that have paid me the most money. Working on Freelancer, you can only rely so much on the trust and verification process that the website provides - but this isn't like working in person. A lot of people don't have unlimited funds and won't be doing a four-figure deal with you unless they see your face or have your business number, and not everybody has a business number.

      The reality for Freelancers is that we build our clientele by forming personal relationships with our clients. We get engaged in their projects. We talk to them about how things are going. We offer to help above and beyond and sometimes outside our own areas of expertise, and we work hard to over-deliver on projects when we know that our work will be well received.

      To the employers that are being critical of this post - I can totally understand why it is that you conduct yourselves the way that you do, and on a professional level, I completely respect that. That being said, I read your posts and I can say that when I've had employers with your attitude and tone in the past, it was ultimately unpleasant to work with them and the relationship didn't last for too long. If you're looking to use me for a project and never speak to me again, I'm totally fine with that, but you probably won't find out all the ways that I can build value into your business because you didn't take the time.

      I haven't hired that many freelancers so I don't really know what it's like to build a working or personal relationship in the opposite direction, I only know what it's like to try and build rapport with your employer and have them be totally unaffected by friendliness and cordiality. Businesses are about people - you have to get team members, even Freelancers, that will help you out and treating everyone like an ultra-professional business contact only isn't going to build that relationship.
      Are you familiar with his posts of recent history? HE is the one who has stated he has very few repeat customers, NOT that we're saying "none of your employers would hire you again", you made a giant leap there.

      Every service provider has had bad clients, ones which we learn from, figure out the signals they send to help us avoid our repeat mistakes.

      Fact is, by his own admission, he has NOT developed rapport and has not done what you assume, consider the 1000 employers he has had...I'd bet that many freelancers have fewer than 100 BECAUSE they do develop a relationship with their clients and their work has proven valuable to them. This is not the case in this instance.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author BradVert2013
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        Fact is, by his own admission, he has NOT developed rapport and has not done what you assume, consider the 1000 employers he has had...I'd bet that many freelancers have fewer than 100 BECAUSE they do develop a relationship with their clients and their work has proven valuable to them. This is not the case in this instance.

        GordonJ
        He also made a recent post about being approached by a very wealthy client for a pretty lucrative writing gig. The client told him to name his price, any price. He made this client out to be a dream client.

        Yet he turned the client down.

        Sometimes I really think we're being trolled.
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  • What kind of business are you in OP?

    The reason I ask is cause I don't recognize any of this and I've dealt with a lot of clients myself. I can only guess you're roaming freelance sites and have run into many situations where you never got paid. Is that it perhaps?

    My clients always pay in advance so maybe that's the difference between you and me, and I've never accepted a job on freelance sites in my life.

    I did outsource several jobs to freelance sites and more often than not I was quite disappointed with what people presented me with so perhaps I'm one of your bad clients.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I only know what it's like to try and build rapport with your employer and have them be totally unaffected by friendliness and cordiality
    So you jump to the main forum and basically repeat this particular thread....by starting a similar thread?
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    January was long, February was iffy, March was a freaking dumpster fire.
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  • Profile picture of the author BradVert2013
    Ah! Here's the thread I mentioned in my previous post:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-pass-out.html

    Never. He orders the work. I deliver. Then, he asks how much needs to be paid. I get my money. That is it. Smooth and simple. For what is worth, so far, we have worked only on relatively small projects. Until recently.
    Sounds like a dream client so far, then...

    He encouraged me to name my price with no hesitation. He also asked from me to decide how I want to be paid? At the beginning, or at the end, in the middle, of a month or a year, or periodically? It was all the same to him.

    I was still shaking. I he was to ask me this question five or then years ago, I would say yes in a blink of an eye. But, after all of my corporate 9-to-5 nightmares were finally over, I was still hesitating. So, I said no. No.
    I'm not sure if I'd take advice on avoiding bad clients from someone who had a great working relationship with a client, then when offered a huge gig that'd pay big bucks, turned it down.

    I've been freelancing since 2008 and have had nowhere near 1,000 clients. Rather, I work to keep the good clients I have because they're a reliable source of income.
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    • Originally Posted by BradVert2013 View Post

      Ah! Here's the thread I mentioned in my previous post:

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-pass-out.html

      Sounds like a dream client so far, then...

      I'm not sure if I'd take advice on avoiding bad clients from someone who had a great working relationship with a client, then when offered a huge gig that'd pay big bucks, turned it down.

      I've been freelancing since 2008 and have had nowhere near 1,000 clients. Rather, I work to keep the good clients I have because they're a reliable source of income.
      Two possibilities here:

      1) He totally made that story up to brag about his avoid bad client skills, this option seems most likely to me.

      2) If it sounds to good to be true... this definitely would look highly suspicious to me, good chance he pays with stolen credit cards and months later there's a chargeback (not the first time that happened to me). Only difference is that such clients never contacted me in advance.

      Now if this were to happen on Freelancer or Upwork I guess you'd be covered right? So in case of such client that sounds way too good to be true I would demand 100% milestone payment upfront. Good chance you never hear from that customer again.

      I do like to add one additional story:

      At the start of my online career while I was doing about $3000 a month in revenue I landed a large client, we had a quite lengthy chat session at Skype and at some point I asked him why he didn't outsource it to individual freelancers (I would serve as the middleman), he said he couldn't be bothered with dealing with a dozen or so people from low-wage countries, he rather had one person take care of it. We also talked about goals and ambitions during that chat session to get to know each other a little better, it wasn't strictly business.

      Soon after he send me a first payment of $5000,- through Paypal, in advance. In the beginning I didn't thought too much of it but after three of such payments in less than two months I started to get a little suspicious, well not really suspicious actually, it was more a realistic fear, what IF he opens disputes all of a sudden, I was the middleman, eg the outsourcer so my margin wasn't too large.

      I did see his websites of course, which were professional (and ranking), but still not to hard to replace.

      End of the story, all went well, we never had any issues, only at some future point he decided to do it differently and didn't need my help anymore and I couldn't blame him for that, as a matter of fact we still chat some times.

      What amazed me most about this client is his faith in me, almost blindly sending thousands of dollars to someone he hardly knew. I've dealt with many outsources that would run with this money, been scammed for much lower amounts.

      ps: This client was a very young guy, in his early twenties and has become a multi-miljonaire in just a few years, he send me photos in his new car and the new house he bought and all that fun stuff. Really happy for him, especially when you realize how he accomplished it, clever guy for sure!

      He did work very hard for his money though, while his friends from university went out partying he stayed at home working on his site and optimizing and automating the whole thing. Now it's his time to party!
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  • Profile picture of the author 4hdddd
    Wow, awesome post. Learned a lot.
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    • Profile picture of the author neshaword
      Originally Posted by 4hdddd View Post

      Wow, awesome post. Learned a lot.
      Appreciated =)
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  • Profile picture of the author luciesmazanska
    There are no guarantees Finally, the most important thing to remember is that successful prevention is the key. Once you found yourself in the unhealthy working relationship then it is too late. Usually. The catch is to identify the problem before it becomes the problem for you.I also realized that a bad client actually gives you two problems. The first time when he ruins your working opportunity with his project. The second time when you lose time, energy, and nerves you should have invested in your other client waiting in a line. So, it's a double damage.
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    • Profile picture of the author neshaword
      Originally Posted by luciesmazanska View Post

      There are no guarantees Finally, the most important thing to remember is that successful prevention is the key. Once you found yourself in the unhealthy working relationship then it is too late. Usually. The catch is to identify the problem before it becomes the problem for you.I also realized that a bad client actually gives you two problems. The first time when he ruins your working opportunity with his project. The second time when you lose time, energy, and nerves you should have invested in your other client waiting in a line. So, it's a double damage.
      I was about to say, what a great point, but then, it sounded too familiar, lol. If you like and agree with it, thank you. If don't, then thank you again. I really meant what I said.

      Cheers,
      N
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  • Profile picture of the author Happy Steve
    It depends on the type of business and the clients but I always think that if you ask for a deposit of some sort it usually sorts out the good clients from the time wasters. And you can get a good feel for the type of clients they are to how they react to being asked for a deposit before the work starts.
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    Only say yes to PERFECT matches.

    I mean it! LOL...REALLY mean it.

    Because having posture helps me land dream clients.

    I only had 1 not too happy client. My fault. Because I took on their work/the work without knowing the person. Without observing their energy. Lesson learned 4 years ago. Going from then, I simply accepted perfect matches and attracted folks who hired me to ghost write eBooks, and who invited me to speak at places like NYU.

    Ryan Biddulph
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    Ryan Biddulph helps you to be a successful blogger with his courses, manuals and blog at Blogging From Paradise
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  • Profile picture of the author JoeBradley
    Useful post, Neshaword. It certainly pays to be on your guard whether client or freelancer. In fact this applies to any dealings you do both online and offline. Not sure about the Skype thing however. I tend to not use Skype unless I have to and even then I think it is best to have the conversation in black and white print that you can easily refer to again, unless you are only talking about your day or the weather.
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    • Profile picture of the author neshaword
      Originally Posted by JoeBradley View Post

      Not sure about the Skype thing however. I tend to not use Skype unless I have to and even then I think it is best to have the conversation in black and white print that you can easily refer to again, unless you are only talking about your day or the weather.
      The thing about the Skype. Every freelance platform has its chat app. Sometimes, I just get tired of typing and emails. So, either I or a client suggests, let's get on Skype and discuss it. It saves time and sometimes, it can say a lot about the person you're talking to. People who have nothing to hide, use cameras, real names, etc. It's not a guarantee, but it's a useful indication. That's all. Thank you for your comment.
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