Does It Makes Me A Bad Guy For Wanting To Outsource Outside of The US????

65 replies
No, I'm not taking away anyone job. Just when things do start to take off, and I need to start hiring people for certain task. Would I be a jerk for outsourcing outside of the US?
#marketing #money #out source #outsource #outsourcing
  • Profile picture of the author Adam Carn
    Originally Posted by pieman09 View Post

    No, I'm not taking away anyone job. Just when things do start to take off, and I need to start hiring people for certain task. Would I be a jerk for outsourcing outside of the US?
    Of course not, you can hire anyone from anywhere in the world. Nothing wrong with that. If you can save money then go for it!

    Adam
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  • Profile picture of the author CmdrStidd
    The age of "buy American" is gone. Thanks to the WWW we now can deal directly with anyone, anywhere. If the work is high quality then go for it.

    Personally though, I would not outsource writing to a non English speaking location. I have been burned too many times getting stuff written in India or Africa and the grammar is atrocious. That is just my personal opinion, though. You have to do what will make you the largest profits. I hope this helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    The fact that you even have to ask is a sad commentary. Not on you, but on how our society views such things. My grandfather told me once a long time ago that everyone should start a business at least once in their lives. I didn't really understand that when I was a kid, but I sure do now. When you start any kind of business, all the "feel good" nonsense you hear academics and the media yammering about gets put in real perspective.

    It might make someone feel better to live in a pie-in-the-sky dream world where everyone can make $30/hour no matter what his/her job is, but in the real world that's silly. What do you suppose would happen to prices for everything you buy if 'someone' (ie, government) forced businesses to only hire fellow citizens and/or pay them an artificially high hourly wage? Have fun paying $10 for a loaf of bread. At least you'll "feel" good about yourself as you slowly starve.

    Jeez, I must be in a bad mood today. I'm ranting all over the place. LOL

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author braver55b
      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      Have fun paying $10 for a loaf of bread. At least you'll "feel" good about yourself as you slowly starve.

      Jeez, I must be in a bad mood today. I'm ranting all over the place. LOL

      John
      I agree with you on that, your post cracked me up.

      I have outsourced to india and to a fellow citizen and while the indian outsourcer was a complete waste of my money, I would not hesitate to dip my toe in again and outsource it overseas (after more careful research) again as the cost is so much better.
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  • Profile picture of the author davebo
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    • Profile picture of the author inmyneed
      some times you need to make companies outside the united states and jobs will be put outside of it. This doesn't make you a bad person it makes you a business owner. However if you could make a factory in the united states and create new jobs here as needed but decide to put it outside the u.s its a bit messed up but that's not going to stop anyone from doing it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
    You have to do what makes sense for your business. It is up to those in the US to compete if they can. The people in other countries need to eat just like anyone else. More power to them if they can do it cheaper.

    I used to buy only American. Then I bought a Saturn LX300 new. I paid $30,000 for it. No doubt it was nice, but for a few thousand more I could have had a BMW or Mercedes at the time. Just two years later I sold it for $10,000. Had I bought my BMW then, it would have been worth perhaps $22,000 when I went to sell it. Lesson learned. I have to do what is right for me and my family, not what I think will help the US economy.

    Once the US auto makers have vehicles that retain value longer than BMW, I'll get one. Ford is getting close. They have some nice stuff now which wasn't always true.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lloyd Buchinski
    I would say outsource and not just for a lot of the good business reasons already mentioned. You are giving work to people who need it more. To me it is a little unpleasant that billions will get spent to go 200 miles into slightly outer space while people right here at ground level are starving.

    It would be a really good thing to do.
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  • Profile picture of the author ItsDubC
    The fact that outsourcing to another country is more appealing than hiring someone stateside means that there is room for opportunity in the US. Having an overzealous allegiance to anything American is impractical in the worldwide economy we have today, especially since so many of the goods we buy every day aren't even made in the US.
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  • Profile picture of the author ckboddic
    Only if you think it's a negative thing for people in 3rd world countries to have employment while you save money. People are people brah.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    The bottom line is the bottom line, and when you're in it to succeed (whatever your personal success means) you need to do what's right for your company. US or outside-US...matters not.
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  • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
    I could understand you being against outsourcing to the third-world if you take advantage of dirt poor people (which I don't agree with), but the 'buy American' argument is weak. I am not an American, but I do understand that most of the West has gone from producing goods to consuming them and eventually that's going to need to be corrected. You create something of value -> You get a job. The situation in the US has come about because of people believing you that you can get money without working for them (printing and lending by the FED). So, no, I actually think you are doing your country a favor by taking your money elsewhere.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by pieman09 View Post

    Would I be a jerk for outsourcing outside of the US?
    If you have $10 to spend on some service, and it would be really hard to find an American who would take that, but there's a guy in Singapore who can feed his kids for a week on it... which choice REALLY makes you a jerk?
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    • Profile picture of the author Thomas
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      If you have $10 ... there's a guy in Singapore who can feed his kids for a week on it...
      Singapore?

      I doubt a mouse could feed (one of) his (mouse-sized) kids for a day (never mind a week) in Singapore for $10!
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  • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
    Don't forget that the more money he saves, the more profit he makes.

    The more profit he makes, the more tax he will pay (or should).

    Then Uncle Sam will get his cut and then Uncle Sam can use it to bail out another bank and allow its executives to keep their swimming pools clean.

    So indirectly he is still supporting the US economy just by having the balls to do something, getting productive and earning some money unlike a lot of people who are still waiting for a government handout!
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  • Profile picture of the author trishworks4u
    My answer is No Way...it's totally my first choice, BUT met with a guy yesterday who is a potential big future client that runs a business based on being "green" and "American", THUS would insist that any outsource work be kept in the U.S..

    Will it cut into my bottom line? A little. But it will also impact that proposal that he gets from me and the rates included therein. I respect his business model and for that sake and the promise of future business, I don't mind sharing a small portion of that offset.
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  • Profile picture of the author SarahMcHarry
    Originally Posted by pieman09 View Post

    No, I'm not taking away anyone job. Just when things do start to take off, and I need to start hiring people for certain task. Would I be a jerk for outsourcing outside of the US?
    This is an amazing comment on US attitudes to the rest of the world.
    • Not every country outside the US is a third world country
    • Some of the non-US, native English speaking freelancers that you might employ are probably better educated than you are
    • Protectionism isn't patriotism
    Do me a favour - (and that's English spelling) - look out beyond the US border and leave your prejudices behind.

    Sarah
    :p
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by SarahMcHarry View Post

      This is an amazing comment on US attitudes to the rest of the world.
      • Not every country outside the US is a third world country
      • Some of the non-US, native English speaking freelancers that you might employ are probably better educated than you are
      • Protectionism isn't patriotism
      Do me a favour - (and that's English spelling) - look out beyond the US border and leave your prejudices behind.

      Sarah
      :p
      I am from the US and have been on the losing side of US companies that outsourced my job, as have many highly educated people in the US. I will choose a US citizen any day for my projects, and most particularly when any kind of writing is involved and that includes designing a website. I have hired a few web designers from other countries and had to go over every button and every word and correct it and have purchased articles that have to be almost completely rewritten due to spelling and grammar errors
      .... and I prefer to use favor over favour, since that is the common spelling in the US.

      Bad grammar and spelling aside, I feel that investing in my own country is investing in my children and grandchildren's futures. That's worth more than a few bucks to me.
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      • Profile picture of the author CmdrStidd
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        I am from the US and have been on the losing side of US companies that outsourced my job, as have many highly educated people in the US. I will choose a US citizen any day for my projects, and most particularly when any kind of writing is involved and that includes designing a website. I have hired a few web designers from other countries and had to go over every button and every word and correct it and have purchased articles that have to be almost completely rewritten due to spelling and grammar errors
        .... and I prefer to use favor over favour, since that is the common spelling in the US.

        Bad grammar and spelling aside, I feel that investing in my own country is investing in my children and grandchildren's futures. That's worth more than a few bucks to me.
        I recently was talking to a young man born and raised right here in the United States who was only about 22 or 23 years old. This young man had very poor writing skills. His spelling left much to be desired and his grammar made me want to puke. He had never been outside the US so there was no outside influences and yet I also have met individuals from China who wrote and spoke in better English than half the people I interviewed when I had my printing business. Those people had never been to the US but they could teach many Americans a thing or two about our language.

        Just because they are from the US does not guarantee you that they can do the job any better. Truth be told, I would hire 1 Chinaman or woman over 10 US citizens any day of the week. The Chinese have a much stronger work ethic and they do the job right the first time without a lot of BS whereas the US citizens require 3 coffee breaks, long lunches, outrageous pay scales and early quitting times and they don't take any pride in their work anymore. I am sorry, dearie, but your argument just does not hold water for me. My guess is that it wont hold water for a lot of others on this forum either, since they come from other countries themselves. Yours is a very narrow minded view that is long since outdated. It is time we all stop caring about our race, color, creed, national origin and the alike and start caring about the only race that matters, the human race.

        Time for me to get off my soapbox now. I just had to get that off my chest.

        PS. To Sarah McHarry: I have used both English and Irish countrymen as artists and writers and I find your culture so rich and alive. I also love the countryside especially in the Irish foothills and glens. I hope to make it back over that way sometime soon. If I do come that way, maybe we could meet for tea or something. What do you think?
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        • Profile picture of the author ivana
          It is your business, it is what you have to do. But in the end, it will not only be based on the $$$ you pay, but the quality of work.

          People think if you don't hire an American, you are not helping your country, but sometimes by outsourcing, you are helping feed family of 5. So less donations Americans have to send, and more money stays in US.
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          • Profile picture of the author feefondo
            American companies are disadvantaged because their operating costs are way higher than that in other countries. It's not an even playing field. I guess it depends on what industry we are talking about but eventually every industry will be outsourced to another country. Then the poor US factory worker will end up on soup lines but hey at least you made an extra 2 bucks. Meh.

            Major corporations are always outsourcing doesn't microsoft have call centers in India?
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            • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
              Originally Posted by feefondo View Post

              American companies are disadvantaged because their operating costs are way higher than that in other countries. It's not an even playing field. I guess it depends on what industry we are talking about but eventually every industry will be outsourced to another country. Then the poor US factory worker will end up on soup lines but hey at least you made an extra 2 bucks. Meh.

              Major corporations are always outsourcing doesn't microsoft have call centers in India?
              Can I ask where you got your figures from for this? It is so far from the truth it is laugable. UK is far higher than the US, HK is even higher and believe it or not Moscow is the most expensive place in the world. I suggest you look at the rest of the world befor making such claims.

              If you truly believe that, how many products do you buy which are not made in the US? Is your car American if not why not, is the gas you buy produced in American, do you buy home grown food from the farmers in your neighbourhood, do you support the corner shop or do you buy food in supermarkets which is from overseas? If not then you are hurting your own economy by not supporting the local businesses and have you ever bought a product online from someone who isn't American?

              Do we now need to say, don't buy from me unless your British because you should support your own economy

              America might have tried to stop racism and have a black president, but Americans (not all by the long shot) are the most rasict country because they are racist not against colour but origin of birth.
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              • Profile picture of the author CmdrStidd
                Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

                America might have tried to stop racism and have a black president, but Americans (not all by the long shot) are the most rasict country because they are racist not against colour but origin of birth.
                How very unfortunate, Bev and yet, how very true. I have travelled the globe and only in America do you hear someone say "I wish they all would go back where they came from" when talking about a person who is at least 4 generations removed from their "homeland". What really kills me is that 99% of ALL AMERICANS are not true Americans, but are Welsh, Irish, German, Slovic, Italian and the list goes on and on. Only the Native American Indians are true Americans and look at how this country treats them.

                It is a sad commentary on us when we let such atrocities go on in our own backyards but yet we shout from the rooftops because kids are forced to work in places like India, or Taiwan and places like that. When will we start caring for all humans instead of only a select few? After all, we are arrogant enough to call ourselves humans yet there is not much in the way of humane treatment that we show to one another.
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              • Profile picture of the author ivana

                America might have tried to stop racism and have a black president, but Americans (not all by the long shot) are the most rasict country because they are racist not against colour but origin of birth.
                I am sorry, but I would not agree with this completely. I've lived in US for 11 years. I immigrated there and I was really broke at the time. BUT not once did I get bad treatment, the same thing is with my husband, who relied on them saving his life, not once did anyone say anything bad to me or to him. Further more, since I was so young when I got there, I had some people take me under "their wing" with advice and personal help.

                Now, I should mention, I lived in California, and that might have been the reason, BUT still my experience, they were really nice....At least to me and my family.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

                America might have tried to stop racism and have a black president, but Americans (not all by the long shot) are the most rasict country because they are racist not against colour but origin of birth.
                Outsourcing has nothing to do with racism and to turn this thread into a thread about racism and bashing Americans will do little to foster intelligent discussion about outsourcing.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by CmdrStidd View Post

          I recently was talking to a young man born and raised right here in the United States who was only about 22 or 23 years old. This young man had very poor writing skills. His spelling left much to be desired and his grammar made me want to puke. He had never been outside the US so there was no outside influences and yet I also have met individuals from China who wrote and spoke in better English than half the people I interviewed when I had my printing business. Those people had never been to the US but they could teach many Americans a thing or two about our language.

          Just because they are from the US does not guarantee you that they can do the job any better. Truth be told, I would hire 1 Chinaman or woman over 10 US citizens any day of the week. The Chinese have a much stronger work ethic and they do the job right the first time without a lot of BS whereas the US citizens require 3 coffee breaks, long lunches, outrageous pay scales and early quitting times and they don't take any pride in their work anymore. I am sorry, dearie, but your argument just does not hold water for me. My guess is that it wont hold water for a lot of others on this forum either, since they come from other countries themselves. Yours is a very narrow minded view that is long since outdated. It is time we all stop caring about our race, color, creed, national origin and the alike and start caring about the only race that matters, the human race.

          Time for me to get off my soapbox now. I just had to get that off my chest.

          #1 - I never said I would hire an illiterate or unqualified US citizen to do a job and your characterization of American workers is not my experience. In fact, you are the one that seems to be prejudiced ... your American bashing response says a lot about how you feel about Americans in general.

          It doesn't matter to me how anyone feels about my preference for hiring qualified workers from my own country and it isn't based on prejudice. I do my share of participating in the global economy. I suspect that your reason for preferring a Chinese worker is based on the fact that you can get dirt cheap labor. I have seen more than one person in this forum whine and complain about articles that were outsourced for a big whopping $1 per article and then they complain about the writing, spelling and grammar. Were I to hire an offshore article writer, I guarantee you that I would not hire a $1 per article writer and then expect top notch quality in return. When I have hired offshore, I always paid closer to what I think is market value when a good job was done no matter what the asking price was. I do not believe in taking advantage of people, no matter where they live.

          My preference for hiring American workers is based on the fact that there is no shortage of poverty and hard times and unemployment in my own country and I would prefer to spend my money in my own back yard and I personally do not see anything outdated or narrow minded with that.
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          • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
            To the OP: this a great thread and a question I've asked myself often.

            My response is similar to Suzanne's. I would outsource to a brilliant young mind from Canada or the US before I'd outsource to someone from other countries only because I feel we should look after our own first. There are so many unemployed people in our 2 countries, that paying someone $10.25 per hour (our minimum wage here in Ontario) wouldn't hurt my bottom line.

            And I'm far from racist, it's just that we always seem to overlook the poverty and misery in our own backyards. In the not too distant future, we are going to have to start looking after each other at a grass-roots community level, out of necessity. But that's a topic for another day and another section of this forum.




            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            #1 - I never said I would hire an illiterate or unqualified US citizen to do a job and your characterization of American workers is not my experience. In fact, you are the one that seems to be prejudiced ... your American bashing response says a lot about how you feel about Americans in general.

            It doesn't matter to me how anyone feels about my preference for hiring qualified workers from my own country and it isn't based on prejudice. I do my share of participating in the global economy. I suspect that your reason for preferring a Chinese worker is based on the fact that you can get dirt cheap labor. I have seen more than one person in this forum whine and complain about articles that were outsourced for a big whopping $1 per article and then they complain about the writing, spelling and grammar. Were I to hire an offshore article writer, I guarantee you that I would not hire a $1 per article writer and then expect top notch quality in return. When I have hired offshore, I always paid closer to what I think is market value when a good job was done no matter what the asking price was. I do not believe in taking advantage of people, no matter where they live.

            My preference for hiring American workers is based on the fact that there is no shortage of poverty and hard times and unemployment in my own country and I would prefer to spend my money in my own back yard and I personally do not see anything outdated or narrow minded with that.
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    • Profile picture of the author pieman09
      Originally Posted by SarahMcHarry View Post

      This is an amazing comment on US attitudes to the rest of the world.
      • Not every country outside the US is a third world country
      • Some of the non-US, native English speaking freelancers that you might employ are probably better educated than you are
      • Protectionism isn't patriotism
      Do me a favour - (and that's English spelling) - look out beyond the US border and leave your prejudices behind.

      Sarah
      :p
      I don't have prejudices for anyone Sarah. I'm just beginning to pull myself out of this hole I'm in, and where I live, this recession has taken it's toll on my little town. Everyday I see people struggling, worst than me, in my own back yard. I'm just looking for a little direction here. So do me a favour, stop trying to put words in my mouth.
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      • Huge companies, such as DELL and other large and well-known retailers have been doing this for many decades. The types of people they hire are called "sweat shops", and for obvious reasons. They get slave wagers and a LOT of them are just kids. The Governments on both fronts -- the US and CANADA have been trying to shut many of them down, but it's been difficult -- another one will just open shop.

        Anyway, this has been a HUGE issue for many, many, many years where these HUGE companies will outsource the work to these third world countries and make a killing!

        So, to answer your question, if these big name retailers don't have any scruples, then why should you feel guilty; especially when you're trying to make the best of it with the little $$$ resources that YOU have!

        I say, you need to do what YOU have to do and not worry so much. Like I said, if those multi-billion dollar companies aren't concerned, then neither should you be!

        Wishing YOU every penny of success!

        JMB
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      • Profile picture of the author SarahMcHarry
        Originally Posted by pieman09 View Post

        I don't have prejudices for anyone Sarah. I'm just beginning to pull myself out of this hole I'm in, and where I live, this recession has taken it's toll on my little town. Everyday I see people struggling, worst than me, in my own back yard. I'm just looking for a little direction here. So do me a favour, stop trying to put words in my mouth.
        I am very sorry for anyone, including you and the people in your hometown, if you are suffering in this recession. There are a lot of people around the world whose jobs and homes and savings have been destroyed and who are in real distress, so you are not alone.

        The point I was making is that, if we all felt like sticking to our own back yards and not spending money outside our own countries, I wouldn't subscribe to Warrior Forum, I wouldn't visit the USA and I wouldn't buy American goods. Whether you like it or not, it's a world economy and you can't solve America's problems by ignoring that.

        Sarah
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  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    The world doesn't begin and end in the US, if it did then a lot of us should quit now because people won't buy anything which isn't American. How many American products are truely American?

    CDarlock, $10 in Singapore wouldn't feed a family, have you seen the cost of living there?
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  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    I wonder what would happen if people outside the US stopped buying products created in the US.

    If you're selling online, do you target only people from your own backyard?

    Do you mind if foreigners who don't know enough English, spend our hard earned UK Pounds with you, or does it make a difference because the money is the only thing that matters?

    You're prepared to take our money, but suddenly we are of a lower class, because our grandparents/great grandparents didn't leave the UK but stuck there and worked through the problems while yours went to the Good Ole USA.

    To the OP you outsource to whoever does the best job for you.

    I know if I wanted software developed and he was offering the service, I would chose BigMike even though he is in Greece.
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  • Profile picture of the author A.Green
    I think it depends a lot on how you're doing it. If you're paying barely-living-wages to people who work in terrible conditions in other countries and then charging people in your own country exhortation prices, then maybe there's a problem.

    International (or inter-tribal) trade has probably been going on since people learned to walk upright and there's certainly a place for it. It doesn't necessarily bankrupt one nation and while making another stinking rich.

    That said, when I buy products or hire, I do tend to favor those from countries friendly to my own or other countries I like. There are quite a few of those. There are certain countries I like to support and I seek out their products even when they're sometimes much more expensive. You might call that racism or tribalism, but I don't really wish to support countries that want to seen mine destroyed. I'm talking about "faceless corporations" I don't know much about. Buying from an individual I know something about (even just online) who's from such a country is a different thing, though.

    Honestly, I think, price and quality being equal, most people do this to some extent, even if it's choosing to work with someone just because they went to the same college you did.

    Some time ago a company in Boston (I think) was preparing to outsource software design work to India because they presumed no one in the US would work for the low wages they were offering. They felt bad and decided to run a help wanted ad stating the same wages they were prepared to pay the Indian designers. They were inundated with offers and ended up higher someone in the States.

    So, OP, you could always just put your offer out there and whoever looks like the highest quality producer with the most reasonable price gets the job, regardless of their nationality.

    Bev,

    >>Moscow is the most expensive place in the world.

    Didn't Tokyo steal the title in 2009? I don't know about Tokyo, but around Moscow, like in the south end, it's still possible to live fairly cheap.

    I know of a city where the cost of living is similar to that of Hamburg (or some mid-sized German city) where the average wage is 5000 USD a month BUT the average wage in this (other) city is only 1000 USD a month. Now talk about disadvantaged.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
      Originally Posted by A.Green View Post

      Bev,

      >>Moscow is the most expensive place in the world.

      Didn't Tokyo steal the title in 2009? I don't know about Tokyo, but around Moscow, like in the south end, it's still possible to live fairly cheap.

      I know of a city where the cost of living is similar to that of Hamburg (or some mid-sized German city) where the average wage is 5000 USD a month BUT the average wage in this (other) city is only 1000 USD a month. Now talk about disadvantaged.
      Yes, you are totally correct, I was still thinking of the 2008 most expensive places to live.

      Dana, we are in HK and we went to one of the islands and the complaints on trip advisors about the hotel was 1) you had to walk 10 mins from the ferry to the hotel (no cars allowed as the streets are not wide enough) 2) they didn't serve American food 3) there were no American restaurants, even though the island had a McD's and all the complaints were from Americans.

      We have to adjust our spelling because Americans might not understand us, if we use any currency other than US$ they think they might be ripped off, because it is too difficult to convert it. Yet, we foreigners have to convert all the time.
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  • Profile picture of the author documaker
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    • Profile picture of the author pieman09
      I'm with documaker, can we stay on point here?
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  • Profile picture of the author FriendlyRob
    You try to support your local economy as much as possible but sometimes the bottom line is more important.

    As long as the work is done reliably and well. You're running a business thats most important for now.
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Grable
      This is an amazing thread. The OP had a very real AND important question. The root of his issue isn't in some sort of misplaced, misguided, pseudo bigoted form of nationalism. That exists... almost EVERYWHERE. The OP is facing a real dilemma. He's worried about being fair to his friends and neighbors. It is laudable that he has even stopped to think about it.

      How that simple question caused an anti-American rant is beyond me. One or two of you jumped into the fray with just a little too much enthusiasm for an issue that wasn't present until you brought it up.

      pieman, my own opinion is that taking your work offshore is okay as long as you aren't breaking any laws and you are treating your employees, suppliers and customers fairly.
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  • Profile picture of the author JRG
    The way I see it is that if I am hiring someone overseas it is usually because of price. And if I used someone in the US I would not be able to afford it so they would not have gotten the job anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author zerofill
    I pay whoever and wherever the job gets done right...I don't care is it is U.S., Japan, or Mars....
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  • Profile picture of the author SantiSantana
    We are talking business here. If your decisions are not derived from business parameters you are likely to be making the worng choice.

    When you need to outsource a job it is imperative that you are looking for the right candidates. AN unqualified, repetitive task that can be done with minimum training may be outsourced to someone capable of doing it for the most affordable price ( assuming your legal requirements are satisfied).

    If the job is more specialised you are looking for the person who can do it better, faster, and more affordable, among other things. That's where you start playing with balance. A copywriter that charges you 250$ for a sales letter that converts 0'5% and takes 4 weeks to have it ready is not cheaper than the copywriter that makes a 4% converting letter in a week but chrges you 5k for it ( except if you are targetting such a small group that said 4% conversion won't be enough to cover the cost of hiring the copywriter).

    The idea of whether you should hire within your country or outside relies on a broad measure of your both your business needs and your personal ethics. If you are a donor to local causes and you dedicate a more or less fixed percentage of your profit to that, chances are you will prefer to have a bigger bottom line so you can channel those resources. If you are not, you will probably feel better with yourself and more involve in your country's recovery by helping your own community.

    Not a single person in this thread can make that decision for you. You will need to ponder the many arguments in favour or against outsourcing in your country and make a choice. If you have done it ( and this thread proves you have) no matter which choice you make it will be the right one, based on the information you have, as there are arguments for both sides.
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  • Profile picture of the author BST
    Though from an American point of view, that would not be right because you are sending away money that could be useful to the economy. But to you, outsourcing would be better so it depends on you really.
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  • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
    As a US based programmer, I've come into rescue failed offshore projects several times and the price for me doing so hasn't been cheap. Then again, I've probably lost some jobs because my price was too high.

    You have to look at what's cost effective for you. Often outsourcing trivial or tedious tasks to a reliable, low cost, overseas source can be very worthwhile. On the flipside, outsourcing a complex task to an unskilled offshore team, perhaps in a politically unstable part of the world, can cost you considerable time and money.

    The important part is knowing what you're buying. If done right, it can save you money. Done wrong, it can more than double your costs and timeline of your project.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sebulba
    Congrats on being successful enough to do that!!!

    Seb
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      I would just like to add that there are definitely a handful of morons in this thread.

      Sorry, someone had to say it.

      As an American who is not prejudiced in anyway some people sure do give me a lot of reasons to be.
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      • Profile picture of the author zerofill
        Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

        I would just like to add that there are definitely a handful of morons in this thread.

        Sorry, someone had to say it.

        As an American who is not prejudiced in anyway some people sure do give me a lot of reasons to be.
        You aren't American...dude being a frozen embryo then grown in a petri dish as an experiment...and then shipped from Transylvania to the U.S. does not make you American...

        I am a product of exceptional genetic engineering though...They spent more time working on me...
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    • Profile picture of the author Doctor Article
      If you ask me............business is business, and you need to do whatever it takes in order to generate the most profit. I do however agree with one of the previous posts, in that if you're outsourcing writing work then you should think twice before choosing to use a writer who's native tongue is not English.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kingdom_Mines
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        • Profile picture of the author davezan
          You know, we've been through this before:

          http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...es-2-hour.html

          And please, folks, no need for ad hominem or name-calling attacks here as few
          have pleaded. I suppose it feels good letting it off your chest calling some folks
          here whatever you feel like, but we're all supposedly civilized enough to discuss
          this without resorting to that, right?

          We all agree to disagree here. Just do what you feel like, and hope you do get
          the results you're looking for.

          Carry on, everyone. We all do our own thing.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by Doctor Article View Post

        If you ask me............business is business, and you need to do whatever it takes in order to generate the most profit .
        Couldn't disagree more. You have to do what you have to do to be profitable NOT the most profitable. Theres a myth out there that business should be blind to being fair with people. That usually ends up biting you right in the derriere with a bad rep.

        So outsourcing? Yeah why not but that doesn't mean I am going to pay a guy a dollar an hour. Conscience in business is a necessity. How many businesses get royally worked over with low quality help because they were trying to rip off their workers and make the most profit?
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        • Profile picture of the author Hyaku_Man
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          So outsourcing? Yeah why not but that doesn't mean I am going to pay a guy a dollar an hour. Conscience in business is a necessity. How many businesses get royally worked over with low quality help because they were trying to rip off their workers and make the most profit?
          It's pretty hard to oppress or abuse a freelance worker online. If they own a computer then you're not dealing with slumdogs who have no other options, or agrarian people whose way of life was ruined a huge foreign factory. You're dealing with people who have an education and know what they're worth. I've never heard of anybody doing freelance work online for $1 an hour. Most of the seo freelancers for exampe just run your stuff through SENuke and do multiple customers' orders at the same time and are laughing. They're not stupid.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hyaku_Man
      It's a globalized world. Protectionism is dead (or should be). If someone in India will do a better job for a third of the price, why should the American get the job? It makes no sense.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
    Anyone that says that outsourcing overseas is bad doesn't understand business. It's all about your bottom line - period.

    Many major corporations in the U.S. outsource overseas. There's simply no way they could compete otherwise.

    I had an offline business for years and used to buy what I thought was strictly "American made". I was shocked when I discovered that these American companies had manufacturing plants in India and imported regularly from India, China and South American countries.

    What I DO NOT endorse is anyone affiliated with running a sweat shop or mistreating another human being in any way, shape or form. That's 100% crap and I'll gladly pay more elsewhere if I know that a company is encouraging these types of practices.

    What people need to keep in mind is that not every economy in the world is the same as wealthier countries like the USA, U.K., Canada, etc. What some people here might think of as "taking advantage" is actually a windfall for some people in poorer countries.

    Some families that had been living in poverty have made huge strides financially since being employed by Americans online. I read a story not long ago about a Philippino worker who was able to take their entire family to visit a dentist for the first time in their lives. This same person is also buying property! All from the $500-$600.00 per month that they are earning.

    Why do companies like Agents of Value | Webmaster Outsourcing Services exist. These are Philippino workers ASKING us for work!!! Why? Because hiring them betters their lives!!!

    Now, if someone asked me if I'd hire American if I could get it at the same price, my answer would be, "I'm not sure". Why? Because many of these workers overseas are college educated and more qualified than what I could hire here at home. Also, these people would be LOYAL to me for that amount each month while someone here would be always trying to find another job, therefore, I'd have to be constantly training someone new.

    Hiring overseas just makes sense. Case closed.
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  • Profile picture of the author dandimit
    Supply and Demand can be a Bitch for someone with no skills.

    Call me an elitist, but if you lose your job to someone that doesn't speak English...ummm, time ot acquire some real skills.

    Anyway, my company uses "employees" in the Phillipines and India to do a lot of the internet things (video submissions, description writing, etc) that are time consuming and boring...

    These are tasks that other people don't even know about until we train them to carryt out the tasks... and these foreigners have 5 times the college education that I have and they only cost us about $2.50 per hour...Sorry America, we love you, but we're not tards!

    Send me a message if you want to know what outsourcing company we use.
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  • Profile picture of the author SMP
    The world is a much smaller place now that it was years ago.

    To stay competitive, many businesses source products and services from all over the world - I don't see any reason why an IM shouldn't do the same.

    Steve.
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    • Profile picture of the author FG
      I once read that charity begins at home. The playing field is slanted so
      bad that it would be hard to answer the polling question.

      I worked many years ago for a US company setting up ISO9000
      certification. The document control for job descriptions that was taken
      directly from the hourly employees was used to move their company to
      Mexico. I honestly had no idea at the time. Yup, its just business. Only in America.

      I have to outsource when it comes to my online business. The first place
      I look is family and friends then my home town. It does not make me feel
      like a jerk.

      I suppose many people on board here will sing the praises of the book,
      "Four Hour Work Week". I chose to work for my self so I would not have
      to emulate Coporate America.

      FG
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    • Profile picture of the author Matrixzer0
      No you should not feel bad. Remember always do right by your business and ethics. And they will do right by you.
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  • Profile picture of the author cowy
    I'm outside US, from a country not far away from Philliphines and have similiar income level. I outsource my works to my local people because it helps people to get additional income.

    I think as long they have qualified skills and they willing to do the work with the fee we agreed, there is no unethical things about outsourcing.
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  • Profile picture of the author pieman09
    I would like to thank everyone who have voiced there opinion on this matter. I really do appreicate it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jag82
    OP, you are definitely no bad guy.

    If outsourcing makes good business sense to you, why not?

    Jag
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  • Profile picture of the author patfl
    As always, things are more complicated than it seems at first.

    Yes, as a whole, the US economy benefits from outsourcing, that's why big companies make more money today than never in the past.

    But on the other hand, a lot of people are suffering from it, look at the people in the manufacturing industry for example.

    So if the total is positive, that doesn't mean it's good, that means that some people are getting richer and richer while middle class is becoming poorer and poorer (actually, middle class is getting smaller, with a growing upper class and lower class and less people in the middle one).

    So the problem is not "Outsourcing is it good or bad?" but "Outsourcing is it sustainable or not?" and I think the answer is no, because without middle class, you get countries like Brazil, Russia and all the developing world, violence, corruption, etc.

    My bet is in the next few years, all the western countries are gonna start to increase taxes on outsourcing (Obama already started to implement a plan) because it creates too much tension in the economy.

    My 2 cents,

    Patrice
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  • Profile picture of the author documaker
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author pieman09
      Originally Posted by documaker View Post

      Why were my posts on the second page of this thread deleted?
      I don't remember you posting on the second page, but if you did, please rewrite what you've posted before.
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  • Profile picture of the author geolt7
    Originally Posted by pieman09 View Post

    No, I'm not taking away anyone job. Just when things do start to take off, and I need to start hiring people for certain task. Would I be a jerk for outsourcing outside of the US?
    Why would you think that way? The important thing is that you get quality work done for what you are paying.
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  • Profile picture of the author Caragui
    Outsourcing is based on preice and the offered service. It shouldn't be dependent on the country if these 2 are met.
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    • Profile picture of the author helpmesolve
      Outsourcing is not a dirty word. It's a reality of life that most developed economies and its people need to get used to.

      Shortage of skills, unfordable prices for services that prohibit new entrepreneurial ventures, frivolous lawsuits, large turnaround times etc.can only lead to unemployed idealists. I guess its about time that we get used to a new economic and social order. Today it is India, Philippines (for services) and China (for manufacturing); tomorrow it is going to be Vietnam, Thailand and others. The fact is that these countries have evolved over the years, their people have worked hard to acquire specialist skills, learnt foreign languages, and are open and adaptable. Look at the ESL schools locally in Canada, and as far as S.Korea and Japan.

      Its a mutually beneficial relationship. The gap is in the degree of perceived benefits and slowly but surely this gap will diminish to create a balanced set of benefits.
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  • Profile picture of the author Carl Hughes
    The tired old adage of "buy American sell American put our people to work" just does not work...why?...some examples come to mind, how many industries have been lost to other "not 3rd world" countries due to the greed of the American workers? ... and as far as the post above delving into Macroeconomics goes global finance is a two way street...so in short if you can get the quality of work you want and find it cheaper in the USA or abroad you should go with what makes the most cents (yes as in dollars and cents) for your business
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  • Profile picture of the author Najat Engineer
    you're not a bad person when you care about your people, but before that you need to care about yourself and your business, if outsourcing outside the US will save you more money, why not?
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    OP: You shouldn't even think twice about it.
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