Client using my content. No payment. Should I just let it go?

RefuseToLose

8 years ago

Let it go, not worth the time and effort.

Next time request payment upfront or do a 50/50 agreement. Lesson learned.

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neshaword 8 years ago

50 here, 100 there. Talking about lessons learned.

50/50 sounds like a good plan. Thx.
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Gambino

8 years ago

You realize that you could have written him an email in the same or less time than it took you to post this on WF, right? I don't understand how you have so much time to post here but not enough time to work on your business or ensure that you get paid for your work.

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jeffmiller2

8 years ago

Hey neshaword,

You have two ways to look at this. You can look at the principle or the practicality.

Practically, as others mentioned above, this really isn't worth your time. It isn't necessarily hurting you that he's using your content. You can just write it off as a lesson learned. It isn't worth the time.

Alternately, you can look at the principle. He is using your content without permission. He owes you but never paid. That isn't right. You should pursue it.

These are your two options. It really is up to you to determine which line of thinking you want to apply. Different people have different opinions and viewpoints, it's up to you to decide.

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neshaword 8 years ago

I already knew it deep down inside just won't do a thing about it. Yet, hearing from you really helps a lot. I mean it. I appreciate it.
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Kay King

8 years ago

"write to google" - for what?

"Dear Google - This man is using pages of my work and he didn't pay me...." I'm sure google will get right on it.

Let's join the real world. It sounds as if you dropped the ball first - and moved on to another customer without finishing this one....or perhaps you finished the work late - or there was a dispute you didn't follow through on.

I'd send him a notice to remove content he had not paid for or to pay for content he was using. Then I'd move on and forget about it.

Do you have an agreement with your clients that copyright passes to them only on payment to you for the work? If not, I wouldn't even send an email.

You say you earn a living as a Freelancer but from some of the problems you have, I'd say that's a miracle.

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Dharmi

8 years ago

Once you should tell them that they cannot use your content without your notice or once rejected. And this is a lesson for you, from next time you should be carefully dealing with such a situations. For this one, don't try hard as it is not worth.

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lgibbon

Banned 8 years ago

[DELETED]

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Rose Anderson

8 years ago

As Kay said, send him an email then let it go. It's not worth your time and stress.

From now on always get at least a 50% deposit and use written agreements so you both know what to expect.

Never dump one client for a higher paying one.

That's my three cents on the matter.

Rose

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neshaword 8 years ago

Didn't leave him for another. This one just came, and I was like, I don't have time to deal with this. Will have a look later. Then, this happened. KK said no use writing to Google. I'm telling you guys, there's something in Google Terms some report thing. I'm exhausted to look for it and make a screenshot. Thx for a legal thing advice.
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Woomeister

8 years ago

Put it down to experience and let it go, you are talking about a whole lot of hassle for a minimal amount of money.

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GordonJ

8 years ago

Point prospective clients to his site as an example of your stellar work.

THIS seems to be your TRADEMARK: "we ended up in a dispute". Bearing witnesss to your WF posts, the guy using your work without paying you...probably got exactly what he paid for.

But, I could be wrong. Sue him.

GordonJ

Originally Posted by neshaword

Small project. Not even 100 AUD. Got a promise that I will get a regular work for blog, as soon as I deliver the first couple of pages for the website. In the meantime, I got a new much bigger project and a more understandable client. So, I was caught in between. I really didn't have time to go on with the discussion with the first client. We ended up in a dispute. And, honestly I didn't pay any attention. He didn't pay, but I did deliver.

Then, a few weeks later, I really don't why, I checked the client's website. My pages were there uploaded. Now, I can write an email demanding that he removes the content he's using without payment and my approval. I also heard somewhere that you can write a letter to Google. There's some special section or support center, I don't know how's it called, but I can check. In the best case scenario, he will have to remove the content, but I really don't think I'm gonna get paid. Judging by the website, this is a micro company.

Should I bother with it? Should I just let it go? I mean it. The time and effort I'm gonna invest for writing letters, discussions, the energy I'm gonna lost. Honestly, I'm very likely to earn that money or even more. On the other hand, I'm having a problem with the idea that someone is gonna get away with it. I mean he hasn't killed a person or something. But, not to pay to a freelancer for a work you initially didn't like, but then you like it enough to use it, is like, I really don't have a comment. Either way, thank you for your time.

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BradVert2013

8 years ago

Originally Posted by GordonJ

Point prospective clients to his site as an example of your stellar work.

THIS seems to be your TRADEMARK: "we ended up in a dispute". Bearing witnesss to your WF posts, the guy using your work without paying you...probably got exactly what he paid for.

But, I could be wrong. Sue him.

GordonJ

I've never seen someone have so many disputes with so many clients. In all my years of freelancing I've never had these kind of problems.

I'm guessing we're missing part of the story here.

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Bill Jeffels

8 years ago

I think you should take the advice you gave yourself in your post about Nikola Tesla.

And..."put the petal to the metal and get over it."

Bill

.

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PPG19

8 years ago

I split payments either 50% upfront and 50% at the end. Or 33%,33% and 33% for bigger projects.

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yukon Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by PPG19

I split payments either 50% upfront and 50% at the end. Or 33%,33% and 33% for bigger projects.

So you're losing 1% of your money because of bad math?
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- PPG19 8 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by yukon
  
  So you're losing 1% of your money because of bad math?
  
  Sorry i didnt want to be that specific 33.3 periodical numbers.. or 30-30-40
  
  Thanks
  
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neshaword 8 years ago

Great tip for large projects.

Appreciated.
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MikeFriedman

8 years ago

Originally Posted by neshaword

I also heard somewhere that you can write a letter to Google. There's some special section or support center, I don't know how's it called, but I can check.

Two things:

1) Google is not the internet police. They cannot make anyone remove any content from their website.
2) Google doesn't give a shit about your situation.

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PaulSch 8 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

Google doesn't give a shit about your situation.

Google's not the only one
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DavidKellog

8 years ago

If the transaction has been done through PayPal, contact their support and see if there is anything you could do about it, since you have proof that you actually delivered the project.

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neshaword 8 years ago

Not PayPal, but excellent point. I have never thought that a payment system could be used this way. Will take that into account the next time. Great. Thx.
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Rose Anderson

8 years ago

If the client hasn't paid why would Paypal be involved? Am I missing something?

Rose

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neshaword 8 years ago

Payment system for freelancers. Milestones and stuff. Not sure how much you know about it. Don't wanna bother you with it. Either way one warrior mention to include financial activity proof which is actually great. Thx again for your time.
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Kay King

8 years ago

Am I missing something?

No, but someone did.

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ricky8000xg

8 years ago

There is a thing like "karma"... simply move on! You have a talent for blogging, excellent, keep a positive attitude, keep on your grind, you'll definitely land bigger projects with better clients!

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neshaword

8 years ago

Originally Posted by ricky8000xg

There is a thing like "karma"... simply move on! You have a talent for blogging, excellent, keep a positive attitude, keep on your grind, you'll definitely land bigger projects with better clients!

I definitely believe in a Good Karma principle whatever that means. What goes around comes around. Thx.

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Kay King

8 years ago

You are mentioning items that weren't even posted in this thread - milestones - financial proof (proof of what if you weren't paid?).

have never thought that a payment system could be used this way...next time

I doubt it can be used in this way - there was no payment involved. There should not be a "next time".

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Mattj84

8 years ago

If I were you, I would simply let it go. You'll get good karma points for helping someone out who's obviously somewhat desperate and you won't have to deal with that person anymore. Just my 2 cents

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neshaword

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Mattj84

If I were you, I would simply let it go. You'll get good karma points for helping someone out who's obviously somewhat desperate and you won't have to deal with that person anymore. Just my 2 cents

Your 2 cents are worth 2 million to me. Thx!!

Thanks

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Rose Anderson

8 years ago

Maybe you're thinking of an escrow service where the the money is paid and then held by a third party until the job is complete. You will have to pay service fees.

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neshaword

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Rose Anderson

Maybe you're thinking of an escrow service where the the money is paid and then held by a third party until the job is complete. You will have to pay service fees.

That's right Rose. That's one form of the escrow service. The trouble was, I just didn't have enough energy to go on with the dispute. So, I canceled the escrow. The client got his money back. I moved one. I thought. I didn't get the money. He won't be using the content. I couldn't even imagine he would do such a thing. I thought it was a fair thing to do. I can't and shouldn't take the money if you don't like the work. Why did you use after all? With no payment? So, you do like it or you like to take things for free? If he is to build his business empire on these things, then I wish him all the luck in the world.

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David Beroff 8 years ago

Originally Posted by neshaword

...I just didn't have enough energy to go on with the dispute. So, I canceled the escrow. The client got his money back.

So this is the part that you conveniently forgot to mention: You chose to return the client's funds, and thus, effectively charged him $0 for your work. If I was in the client's shoes, I'd see this as you giving me your deliverable, charging me nothing, so I wouldn't see any ethical problem in using whatever I could salvage from it. (Clearly he had some concerns, or he wouldn't've raised the dispute.)
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- neshaword 8 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by David Beroff
  
  so I wouldn't see any ethical problem in using whatever I could salvage from it.
  
  Salvage?! So, you didn't like the work. You got your money back. You thought that was a sign that you can use it freely. You have no ethical problems in using someone else's work without payment. It this a Good Karma thing? Is this the right thing to do?
  
  Luckily for me and for the whole freelancing industry not all clients are like this. Some of them are like, I'm not fully satisfied with the work, but I have to compensate you for your time because you were my choice. Then, I say, but I can't accept the full amount because you aren't fully satisfied. That's what I call a fair deal.
  
  Salvage?! Your fortune is someone else's misfortune. Not for me. I'm a helpless Good Karma believer. I'm a digital poet, not a digital scavenger.
  
  Cheers!
  
  Thanks
  
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Mark Singletary

8 years ago

I think you're talking about a DMCA take down notice which can be sent to the web host of the offending party as well as to Google or other places the offending content is listed.

Mark

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Pablo Montanas

8 years ago

Just let it go. You learned your lesson, only costs time to dispute.
Time is money so use this energy you have to get back on that horse again.

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neshaword 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Pablo Montanas

Just let it go. You learned your lesson, only costs time to dispute.
Time is money so use this energy you have to get back on that horse again.

One of my friends also a freelancer told me, a bad client such as this kills you twice, causes you damage twice, the first time on his project, and the second time by killing your positive energy you should have kept and used for the next client. So painfully true.
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gingerninjas

8 years ago

Did you do this work through a freelancer site - you mention a dispute but if you did, you would have had to have had a milestone set up first.

My suggestion, if you do ANY work on Freelancer sites have the milestones set up first, if they award you the work and don't set this up they are probably not going to pay.

If you have done this through your own business and have provided a quote, which they have accepted you will have terms and conditions that stipulate the job.

I ask for 50% for anyone I have never worked before and I will not start work until I have this. I now have retainers for some clients but that is only after a long while of working with them and getting to know them a little and understanding what their cashflow is like.

You wouldn't go into a supermarket and take food off the shelf without paying, so why let someone take your work and use it without paying.

Maybe you needed to be clearer and work on your customer service / management as it sounds like you dropped the ball on this one.

It happens, lucky it was only $100.

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neshaword

8 years ago

Originally Posted by gingerninjas

Did you do this work through a freelancer site - you mention a dispute but if you did, you would have had to have had a milestone set up first.

My suggestion, if you do ANY work on Freelancer sites have the milestones set up first, if they award you the work and don't set this up they are probably not going to pay.

If you have done this through your own business and have provided a quote, which they have accepted you will have terms and conditions that stipulate the job.

I ask for 50% for anyone I have never worked before and I will not start work until I have this. I now have retainers for some clients but that is only after a long while of working with them and getting to know them a little and understanding what their cashflow is like.

You wouldn't go into a supermarket and take food off the shelf without paying, so why let someone take your work and use it without paying.

Maybe you needed to be clearer and work on your customer service / management as it sounds like you dropped the ball on this one.

It happens, lucky it was only $100.

AUD not USD, lol.

Thanks

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ydsimple

8 years ago

Depends on do you have time to resolve the problem? If you can jump into another project dont bother yourself and waste time, learn the lesson from it and let it go.

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David Beroff

8 years ago

Originally Posted by neshaword

And, honestly I didn't pay any attention. He didn't pay, but I did deliver.

Most freelancer marketplace sites hold the buyer's funds in escrow until the seller delivers, so as to protect against just such a thing. It sounds like you either didn't follow this route, or you did, and your "inattention" meant that the buyer didn't receive what they had specified. Either way, it sounds to me like this one is on you. Suck it up; fart and move on!

As far as not being able to juggle multiple clients, (which you have also whined about several times here), you seem to have plenty of time to waste on this forum. How about focusing on your actual work and giving this place a rest?

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neshaword

8 years ago

Originally Posted by David Beroff

Most freelancer marketplace sites hold the buyer's funds in escrow until the seller delivers, so as to protect against just such a thing. It sounds like you either didn't follow this route, or you did, and your "inattention" meant that the buyer didn't receive what they had specified. Either way, it sounds to me like this one is on you. Suck it up; fart and move on!

As far as not being able to juggle multiple clients, (which you have also whined about several times here), you seem to have plenty of time to waste on this forum. How about focusing on your actual work and giving this place a rest?

Sounds like a plan, lol. Cheers!

Thanks

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David Beroff

8 years ago

Your client had a need for something, let's call it an article, and hired you. He chose to put the full amount agreed upon into escrow, i.e., He showed full intent of paying you. You delivered an article. Then you chose to return his money. That's supposed to suddenly invalidate his position? He needed an article, he paid money, he received an article, he has full rights to do what he wishes with said article. Period. You have no rights to this deliverable. You sold those rights; you didn't lease them until you changed your mind. In most, and likely all, marketplaces, the client doesn't even have an option to refuse to receive a given refund. You chose to give his money back; he had no way to choose to decline or otherwise undo this.

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Van Dam

8 years ago

It's really crappy of him to have a dispute with you and then still go ahead and use your content without paying you. Really unethical and doesn't sound like a person anyone should be doing business with.

That being said, I don't think it's worth your while pursuing it. Put it down to experience and in future ask for some kind of deposit. The 50/50 mentioned above is a good one.

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neshaword

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Van Dam

It's really crappy of him to have a dispute with you and then still go ahead and use your content without paying you. Really unethical and doesn't sound like a person anyone should be doing business with.

That being said, I don't think it's worth your while pursuing it. Put it down to experience and in future ask for some kind of deposit. The 50/50 mentioned above is a good one.

Lost 100 dollars, but I got 101 pieces of advice. 50/50 is definitely the best of them. Thx.

Thanks
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Marx Vergel Melencio 8 years ago

Originally Posted by neshaword

Lost 100 dollars ...

How can anybody lose 100 AUD of work in a make-believe story?
...
Reverse-engineer that, and you could probably make 100 AUD through another made-up narrative.
...
Repeat that several times, and who knows? You could end up with 10K of fantasy AUD in a day!

Originally Posted by neshaword

... but I got 101 pieces of advice ...

Yeah, and you probably think this could lead to freelancing opportunities magically ending up in your PM inbox?
...
Why don't you just pay for advertising, just like 'em freelancers who know what they're doing?
...
I think you read the wrong book about forum marketing!

=>> Look around. Know what you've been doing here? Know what's worse than bot spam? Manual spam, that's what ...
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MikeFriedman

8 years ago

Originally Posted by neshaword

Didn't leave him for another. This one just came, and I was like, I don't have time to deal with this. Will have a look later. Then, this happened. KK said no use writing to Google. I'm telling you guys, there's something in Google Terms some report thing. I'm exhausted to look for it and make a screenshot. Thx for a legal thing advice.

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

I think you're talking about a DMCA take down notice which can be sent to the web host of the offending party as well as to Google or other places the offending content is listed.

Mark

You can file a DMCA notice with Google, but again, they have no power over a website's content. They cannot make a website remove their content. They can remove the content from their own search index, but that is it.

The web host has more leverage and can take the whole site down if they want to if the client doesn't comply. However, they generally only take that extreme of a position if they can verify that the content exists elsewhere and is being used without authorization. In this case, that would be difficult for them to see, so I am not sure what response they might take.

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Kay King

8 years ago

The trouble was, I just didn't have enough energy to go on with the dispute. So, I canceled the escrow. The client got his money back. I moved one. I thought. I didn't get the money. He won't be using the content. I couldn't even imagine he would do such a thing. I thought it was a fair thing to do.

You are baiting this forum with stories like this - where the truth comes out only after a few here have stroked your ego and told you "you're right".

I doubt you have anything from Paypal or the client stating the content will not be used. The client probably figures he owns the content due to the time he spent dealing with you...

The fair thing to do would be to work with the client until he was satisfied with the content you wrote - you dropped him and moved on.

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lgibbon Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

You are baiting this forum with stories

Stories being the operative word.
I very much doubt any of this actually happened.
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GordonJ

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

You are baiting this forum with stories like this - where the truth comes out only after a few here have stroked your ego and told you "you're right".

I doubt you have anything from Paypal or the client stating the content will not be used. The client probably figures he owns the content due to the time he spent dealing with you...

The fair thing to do would be to work with the client until he was satisfied with the content you wrote - you dropped him and moved on.

I find this guy irresistible. He is a magnetic person, who draws me to him as if I were a new born fly in a cow pasture with the cow pies everywhere to feast on.

I'm mesmerized, and he'll consider it a compliment, I'm sure. So much trolling, some of it probably paid for and appreciated by the managers, controversy attracts eyeballs.

No such thing as bad publicity? Well....

Here's one viewpoint, from an admitted addict of spurious nonsense...FL is the largest content provider in the world. The WF is one of their vehicles to sell their services and with the recent ad from WF seeking more marketers, they want to sell, sell and sell.

But what they sell is, for the most part, the services of FREELANCERS. They have paid people to post here, and I assert, once again...that if this troll neshaword is the best hire they can come up with, what does it say about their management? About their company?

I readily admit, I have to see what neshaword (and several of the new trolls, plants, insiders or hirees) are posting and every time I read it, I get further and further away from ever hiring a FL service provider. But, I'm just one guy, who cares if I use FL or just find my own writers on craigslist, which I'm doing more and more with every keystroke neshaword makes.

But, just an opinion, and I do read and take the bait, but spend money at WF, hell no, even left the War room after many years. Why would I hire someone from FL, if the best they can do is hire neshaword? SEE?

GordonJ

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discrat

8 years ago

lol..Gordon always telling it like it is

Thanks

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CPA Redmond WA

8 years ago

Try bringing people like Google into solve your problems. Makes you look like you spend too much time in drama triangles. Also looking for free legal advice on message boards won't get you anywhere. I reviewed attorney and asked them for your options. Have them write a letter, they tell you they think that your position is weak, payment for consultation on how to prevent this from happening again in your state.

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Client using my content. No payment. Should I just let it go?

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