Whoopidity Do Da Look At Me I'm TrafficFusion!!

by giveusallfreedom 33 replies
Sorry. I was channeling Adam Sandler there for a minute.

I just watched Mike Filsaime's product leak video for Traffic Fusion and I couldn't help but think to myself that this is the same thing people have been selling for years.

Don't get me wrong the product is new and the software looks great, but the basic concept is that people have this free space on their thank you/download page that they could be using to promote products. If you can get them to promote your products then you would get that much more traffic coming to your site.

Almost three years ago it was Pipeline Profits selling the "secrets" of co-reg. I'm not saying that co-reg is the exact same thing, but the concept is the same. List Joe is similar too although they actually put the joint subscription on the front end and it works with credits. OK maybe List Joe is a little bit of a stretch.

Anyway...

Here's the basic concept.

Find JV Partners. Get them to put your ad on their Thank You/Download page. (Based on what Mike said in the video putting it on the download page of someone that already bought the product is better, but put it on a Thank You page is better than nothing.)

Your ad should be a special offer on you're product. Giving them a special offer because they just bought someone else's product is a legitimate reason for the special offer and it will help entice people to buy.

As people visit your JVs site and opt in/purchase the JVs product they will see your offer and a certain percentage will buy your product. Bam instant traffic.

Bonus Tips

Create an ad right now for this and put it on your affiliate's page. Now all your affiliates can simply copy this ad and post it directly on to their pages. All they have to edit is their affiliate link in the code.

You probably want to make a special sales page or present a coupon that offers a discount, but it will still work. Personally I have a secret page for all my products that offers a huge discount and is only available if you use an affiliate link to get there, so this isn't a big deal for me. But that sales process is a whole other post.

This works for opt ins to. Say you have a report or whatever that you sell for $7 - $27. Give it away free to your JV partners customers. They can even paste your auto responder code directly on to their site. Alternatively if their software uses dynamic tags you can set it up so that all the customer has to do is push a button and their automatically subscribed.

In this case to repay your JV you either have a backend product that you pay commissions on or you do a trade and put a similar offer on your page.

TRAFFIC FUSION

So, should you get traffic fusion? Decide for yourself. It does look like it will make things easier and it has some great features, but personally the only real reason I would join would be to get access to the membership area to find JV partners.

In the end that's the real trick to this process. The idea is great, but only if you can find people to put your offer on their site. (However, from my experience these forums/membership areas generally drive up about 6 months after they're created and the people that created them stop paying attention to them.)

Of course it will depend on the price too. Supposedly Mike was supposed to leak that to, but I haven't been able to get that far yet.

Personally I'd rather check out the JV forum here on the WF. It doesn't get as much traffic as it should as far as I can see, but this place will be around forever and it's free to post there. Maybe we should all just go post our Traffic Fusion ad in the JV forum. Put a little [Traffic Fusion] or [TF] block at the beginning of your title to tell people that you have a Traffic Fusion ad available.
#main internet marketing discussion forum #trafficfusion #whoopidity
Avatar of Unregistered
  • Profile picture of the author virtualpro
    Originally Posted by giveusallfreedom View Post

    Almost three years ago it was Pipeline Profits selling the "secrets" of co-reg. I'm not saying that co-reg is the exact same thing, but the concept is the same. List Joe is similar too although they actually put the joint subscription on the front end and it works with credits. OK maybe List Joe is a little bit of a stretch.
    Hello,

    Great post.

    I know this is what human do for thousand years and still continue to do it, but still have no time to learn about it yet.

    If you want dig some more and write WSO about it, I will buy it!
    Lee
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[105707].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
    Although not a new strategy this can be very effective. This could be considered trading traffic??? Would be profitable for all parties involved.

    Thanks for the informative post.
    Signature

    "One Man's Ceiling is Another Man's Floor
    "


    "I Pay Less Attention to What Men Say. I Just Watch What They Do."
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[105736].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author jjpmarketing
      It was like the CliffNotes to Traffic Fusion. But one has to believe that this was all inspired by John Reese's Traffic Secrets 2.0.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[105764].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author giveusallfreedom
        Originally Posted by jjpmarketing View Post

        It was like the CliffNotes to Traffic Fusion. But one has to believe that this was all inspired by John Reese's Traffic Secrets 2.0.
        Are you talking about this launch or my post, cause personally I haven't seen John Reese's traffic secrets, but I'm interested in checking it out. The same goes for Product Launch Formula. I figure these launches are really just the products of those courses. I should really just go to the source instead of having to pull out my own ideas.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[106230].message }}
    • Very accurate description.

      Personally, I was very surprised at the pricing. $1600 if you take the "payment plan" - which is hardly a payment plan: $795 now, plus $795 in 30 days, or $1500 if you pay all at once.

      Plus, a mandatory $500/yr. for the 'service', payable $250 every six months.

      All in all, it seems extremely high to me. In essence what you're buying is a Mike-hosted application for generating code that your JV pastes into his 'thank you' page. It seems very well done, a lot of features, but that's an awful lot of money for what you could essentially do yourself. In other words, it's more automating & beefing up something you can already do, rather than what he repeatedly suggests is 'breakthrough new technology'.

      Also, the way the steep 'forced continuity' was presented on the video, he really downplays it and positions it as if it really isn't a big deal - "with all the money you'll be making, an extra $40/month shouldn't be a big deal. Plus, this guarantees you we'll have a vested interested in keeping it going". Well, either it's $1600, or it's $500/yr. Both together seem more like profiteering to me.

      There's lots of bonuses, but that isn't the point - if you're buying "Traffic Fusion" in order to do what "Traffic Fusion" does, it's very pricey.

      And I completely agree re: the forum. If it's anything like almost every other similar deal, there'll be some enthusiastic participation early on which will dry up significantly after a few months.

      All in all, I'm very unimpressed with the offer. I've found MF's products to be uniformly high-quality, but I think the pricing is over the top, and it's much more of an "incremental" product than a "revolutionary" product, heavy on marketing. The overall feeling I got was, 'what's the absolute most I can wring from this', and it felt disconcerting.

      Mark
      Signature
      = = = = COMPLETE, CUSTOM ADSENSE SITE = = = =
      VERY Limited WSO. 100% Guaranteed.

      MY Expertise, YOUR Profit.
      Read the thread.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[105796].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
        Mark,

        Nicely written review. Just want to comment on one thing:

        Originally Posted by internetmarketer99 View Post

        All in all, it seems extremely high to me. In essence what you're buying is a Mike-hosted application for generating code that your JV pastes into his 'thank you' page. It seems very well done, a lot of features, but that's an awful lot of money for what you could essentially do yourself. In other words, it's more automating & beefing up something you can already do, rather than what he repeatedly suggests is 'breakthrough new technology'.
        I have been putting ads on my thank you pages for a few years now. It's nice when you wake up in the morning and find not just one, but 3 or 4 sales to the very same customer as they buy from each thank you page.

        But, like many things, this comes down to a personal choice of whether it's worth the money to systemetize this process or not.

        For me, every time I set up a sale, I decide which product to offer on the thank you page, then either spend time looking to see if I already made an ad, and if so, where is it (I am not all that organized ), copy, paste, etc.

        Or - I need to create one yet again...

        Then, I need to set up my tracking links on each of these thank you pages ads, which depending on the tracking system you use can be simple or tedious.

        What one huge benefit here is now I have the ability to sit down one weekend and create all the ads I want, in many different variations. Then, when it's time to put together my offer, I simply sign in to my account, choose an ad, copy and paste one line of code and I am done.

        And incidently, I can have others do the same thing and swap ads.

        Finally, at the end of the day, I log in to one place to check on my stats to see how the ads are doing - what's getting clicked, etc. If something is not performing the way I like, I can simply select another offer, copy and paste a line of code and I am done.

        So, to me, yes... it would be worth the price. Like any purchase decision, you need to evaluate if something you are considering would be a benefit for your business. Systemetizing this aspect is going to save me a ton of time and give me a ton of valuable information on my ads, how they perform, etc.

        My Thoughts...

        Mike
        Signature

        Are you protecting your on line business? If you have a website, blog, ecommerce store you NEED to back it up regularly. Your webhost will only protect you so much. Check out Quirkel. Protect yourself.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[105979].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    You may want to read Mark Joyner's new book. (Free.) Very relevant to this discussion.

    Integration Marketing

    I do NOT recommend using the "tell-a-friend" feature in the follow-up pages. Mark and I are friends, and I don't think for a minute he'd abuse it, but I don't recommend giving ANYONE the passwords to those kinds of accounts.

    The book is well worth the read.


    Paul
    Signature
    .
    Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[105809].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      You may want to read Mark Joyner's new book. (Free.) Very relevant to this discussion.

      Integration Marketing

      I do NOT recommend using the "tell-a-friend" feature in the follow-up pages. Mark and I are friends, and I don't think for a minute he'd abuse it, but I don't recommend giving ANYONE the passwords to those kinds of accounts.

      The book is well worth the read.


      Paul
      Good information there. I usually like all of Mark Joyner's stuff. Definitely a smart guy. I'snt he considered the "Godfather" of the internet marketing and supposedly created the first ebook?
      Signature

      "One Man's Ceiling is Another Man's Floor
      "


      "I Pay Less Attention to What Men Say. I Just Watch What They Do."
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[105939].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        I'snt he considered the "Godfather" of the internet marketing and supposedly created the first ebook?
        I have no idea where the 'Godfather' thing started, but that is something he's been called. He didn't create the first ebook, but he did create the first one that was downloaded a million times.

        "Integration Marketing" is a much larger strategic approach than just trading on unused virtual real estate. It's the thinking, rather than the working code for that tactic. Two different products.

        What I'm curious to see is how long it will be before someone creates a piece of software that handles this stuff and sells it as a product, rather than a service. You could probably get something serviceable created for the $1600 cost of entry.

        From what's been described here (which is all I "know" about Traffic Fusion), the value in the offering is the membership area.


        Paul
        Signature
        .
        Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[106017].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Simon_Sezs
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          From what's been described here (which is all I "know" about Traffic Fusion), the value in the offering is the membership area.
          Paul
          Yeah, and the membership area is only going to be as good as the members...which means that it is very likely to be a bunch of people searching for the BIG JV's rather than trying to find people on their own level (and many will start without a level). Worse still, there will probably be very few big names that will join and even fewer that would be willing to JV (since most of the big name players are in what I like to call "the good old boy network).

          So, in all likelihood, it will be back to the drawing board for those purchasing this (you know...the practical things...getting on the phone and wheeling and dealing...building relationships from their peers rather than hope someone will spoon feed them JV deals).

          I have seen these membership sites before and I all I can say is if Mike can actually pull it off (and not fail after a half a year), then my hat will be off to him.
          Signature
          "Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing." Ben Franklin
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[106107].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
    For the price, I would just do this manually. It's not like I have 1000 download pages to work with.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[105951].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    Originally Posted by giveusallfreedom View Post

    Sorry. I was channeling Adam Sandler there for a minute.

    I just watched Mike Filsaime's product leak video for Traffic Fusion and I couldn't help but think to myself that this is the same thing people have been selling for years.

    Don't get me wrong the product is new and the software looks great, but the basic concept is that people have this free space on their thank you/download page that they could be using to promote products. If you can get them to promote your products then you would get that much more traffic coming to your site.

    Almost three years ago it was Pipeline Profits selling the "secrets" of co-reg. I'm not saying that co-reg is the exact same thing, but the concept is the same. List Joe is similar too although they actually put the joint subscription on the front end and it works with credits. OK maybe List Joe is a little bit of a stretch.

    Anyway...

    Here's the basic concept.

    Find JV Partners. Get them to put your ad on their Thank You/Download page. (Based on what Mike said in the video putting it on the download page of someone that already bought the product is better, but put it on a Thank You page is better than nothing.)

    Your ad should be a special offer on you're product. Giving them a special offer because they just bought someone else's product is a legitimate reason for the special offer and it will help entice people to buy.

    As people visit your JVs site and opt in/purchase the JVs product they will see your offer and a certain percentage will buy your product. Bam instant traffic.

    Bonus Tips

    Create an ad right now for this and put it on your affiliate's page. Now all your affiliates can simply copy this ad and post it directly on to their pages. All they have to edit is their affiliate link in the code.

    You probably want to make a special sales page or present a coupon that offers a discount, but it will still work. Personally I have a secret page for all my products that offers a huge discount and is only available if you use an affiliate link to get there, so this isn't a big deal for me. But that sales process is a whole other post.

    This works for opt ins to. Say you have a report or whatever that you sell for $7 - $27. Give it away free to your JV partners customers. They can even paste your auto responder code directly on to their site. Alternatively if their software uses dynamic tags you can set it up so that all the customer has to do is push a button and their automatically subscribed.

    In this case to repay your JV you either have a backend product that you pay commissions on or you do a trade and put a similar offer on your page.

    TRAFFIC FUSION

    So, should you get traffic fusion? Decide for yourself. It does look like it will make things easier and it has some great features, but personally the only real reason I would join would be to get access to the membership area to find JV partners.

    In the end that's the real trick to this process. The idea is great, but only if you can find people to put your offer on their site. (However, from my experience these forums/membership areas generally drive up about 6 months after they're created and the people that created them stop paying attention to them.)

    Of course it will depend on the price too. Supposedly Mike was supposed to leak that to, but I haven't been able to get that far yet.

    Personally I'd rather check out the JV forum here on the WF. It doesn't get as much traffic as it should as far as I can see, but this place will be around forever and it's free to post there. Maybe we should all just go post our Traffic Fusion ad in the JV forum. Put a little [Traffic Fusion] or [TF] block at the beginning of your title to tell people that you have a Traffic Fusion ad available.
    Hey!!..

    Your post launch threads are getting quite frequent here... or is this a pre-launch thread?... either way it's naughty

    Someone will be along in a mo to set you straight and inform you that you're clueless...

    Great post g.u.a.l.... such offerings are what makes this forum the #1

    Peace

    Jay
    Signature

    Bare Murkage.........

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[105982].message }}
    • Mike,

      I agree with you. For the marketer that has a reasonably successful business already, getting to that 'next level' often involves entirely different considerations.

      For myself, growing my business to where it is now meant spending in areas where the cost was essentially irrelevant. For some, Traffic Fusion will be a terrific product regardless of cost.

      But most of these big-ticket launches - and this is no exception - are marketed not so much as a business-building tool for the internet marketer who already has a measure of success, but as the 'answer' to the new marketer who will be all too eager to see it as a 'magic bullet'.

      "You don't need a website, no PPC spending, you don't even need a product, because I'm including 50 PLR products w/ salespages!" (from the sales pitch, paraphrased)

      The only way to quickly get the kind of volume and return MF intends to get is to convince a lot of new(er) marketers that this is their 'answer' to finally being successful.

      That's where this doesn't sit well with me.

      Mark
      Signature
      = = = = COMPLETE, CUSTOM ADSENSE SITE = = = =
      VERY Limited WSO. 100% Guaranteed.

      MY Expertise, YOUR Profit.
      Read the thread.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[106019].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
        Originally Posted by internetmarketer99 View Post

        Mike,

        I agree with you. For the marketer that has a reasonably successful business already, getting to that 'next level' often involves entirely different considerations.

        For myself, growing my business to where it is now meant spending in areas where the cost was essentially irrelevant. For some, Traffic Fusion will be a terrific product regardless of cost.

        But most of these big-ticket launches - and this is no exception - are marketed not so much as a business-building tool for the internet marketer who already has a measure of success, but as the 'answer' to the new marketer who will be all too eager to see it as a 'magic bullet'.

        "You don't need a website, no PPC spending, you don't even need a product, because I'm including 50 PLR products w/ salespages!" (from the sales pitch, paraphrased)

        The only way to quickly get the kind of volume and return MF intends to get is to convince a lot of new(er) marketers that this is their 'answer' to finally being successful.

        That's where this doesn't sit well with me.

        Mark
        Mark,

        That's why Mike has released several videos on what Traffic Fusion is and how it can benefit you - or make you realize you're not ready for it...

        Mike wants people to get educated about what this package is and NOT buy if they don't think they're ready for it.

        Again, this is one of those things you have to decide if it's right for your business.

        For me, it's going to be a boon for my business. It will be for many I suspect...

        Mike
        Signature

        Are you protecting your on line business? If you have a website, blog, ecommerce store you NEED to back it up regularly. Your webhost will only protect you so much. Check out Quirkel. Protect yourself.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[106070].message }}
        • Mike,

          Again, I don't disagree with you. And I don't want to beat a dead horse, but the marketing is carefully crafted to have that "this might be my answer!" appeal to new marketers ("No website needed! No product needed" - in other words, "Just starting out, or been struggling unsuccessfully for a while? This thing might just be your answer!").

          While there's nothing inherently wrong with marketing to new internet marketers - it's where much of my own revenue comes from - my original point was that it seemed priced and positioned to maximize how much it could get from someone's wallet, at the expense (pun intended ) of maximizing value to the buyer.

          While it can be argued that the primary objective of marketing is to maximize revenue per customer, I was left with the feeling that for the market it targets, it's positioning and pricing are being stretched beyond it's value.

          Mark
          Signature
          = = = = COMPLETE, CUSTOM ADSENSE SITE = = = =
          VERY Limited WSO. 100% Guaranteed.

          MY Expertise, YOUR Profit.
          Read the thread.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[106150].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi Mike A,

        It sounds like you're in need of my new 'thankyou page copywriting course and split-testing system' and my new ebook - 'how to get your thankyou page to the top of the search engines by installing my all in one integrated thankyou page social network, forum, link-exchange and blogging system.' Comes with a bonus 'thankyou page RSS feed creator.'

        I can't bear to see all of this valuable real-estate going to waste.

        That's why I've got my head down working on my next project to find new and innovative ways to monetise all the empty space that gets wasted all around the word 'buy' on those huge buy buttons - 'buybuttonsense - contextual advertising for your vacant buy button space'.

        {sorry mate - couldn't resist a sly tease - you know the controversy just drives more buyers to Mike's product )

        PS In all seriousness, I was quite impressed with the 'go to this video a day early and learn all about the product so that you're not going to miss out on the scarcity driven bonuses in the big rush on launch day.' (paraphrased) It kind of reminded me of the 'bonus grab' feature on that MME3 CMS thing - I'm surprised that hasn't been picked up on more.

        I thought the fact that the video was 45 mins long was a bit OTT. But I like the way he used the scarcity, but got them fully prepared for 'the race' to the button. Simple, but smart.
        Signature


        Roger Davis

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[106116].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
          Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

          {sorry mate - couldn't resist a sly tease - you know the controversy just drives more buyers to Mike's product )
          Hey Roger,

          I don't see any controversy (yet), but teasing never bothered me anyway

          Seriously - when I "discovered" putting ads on thank you pages and swapping ads with others, it increased my bottom line extensively. I couldn't believe the amount of money I left on the table for so long.

          And as someone using HyperJava for the past few months, I love the fact it makes my life easier. I am lazy at heart. So if I have something that will make my life easier, and it improves my bottom line, I will buy it.

          That includes your book

          Mike
          Signature

          Are you protecting your on line business? If you have a website, blog, ecommerce store you NEED to back it up regularly. Your webhost will only protect you so much. Check out Quirkel. Protect yourself.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[106157].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
            Hey Mark,

            No sweat. I understand your point.

            I will say one last thing (not about the marketing) - I don't know if the price point is right, wrong or otherwise. But I DO know that if you are hosting a service that has several thousand users, and can be "media heavy" (images, audios, videos in the ads), those costs are FAR from cheap. Trust me - I had my own hosting company for some years.

            I also happen to know what Mike has invested in the infrastructure for this system...

            Mike
            Signature

            Are you protecting your on line business? If you have a website, blog, ecommerce store you NEED to back it up regularly. Your webhost will only protect you so much. Check out Quirkel. Protect yourself.

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[106167].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author IMChick
              Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

              Hey Mark,

              No sweat. I understand your point.

              I will say one last thing (not about the marketing) - I don't know if the price point is right, wrong or otherwise. But I DO know that if you are hosting a service that has several thousand users, and can be "media heavy" (images, audios, videos in the ads), those costs are FAR from cheap. Trust me - I had my own hosting company for some years.

              I also happen to know what Mike has invested in the infrastructure for this system...

              Mike

              A quick note to Mike, I clicked on your signature and got 404 not found...
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[108930].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author ultimas
            Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

            Hey Roger,

            I don't see any controversy (yet), but teasing never bothered me anyway

            Seriously - when I "discovered" putting ads on thank you pages and swapping ads with others, it increased my bottom line extensively. I couldn't believe the amount of money I left on the table for so long.

            And as someone using HyperJava for the past few months, I love the fact it makes my life easier. I am lazy at heart. So if I have something that will make my life easier, and it improves my bottom line, I will buy it.

            That includes your book

            Mike
            Mike,

            I'm also a HyperJava user...but I haven't had the success in setting it up that you appear to have had. Specifically, I can't get it to credit sales to my affiliates...the sales just don't show up in my affiliates' stats (or mine, for that matter). What's the workaround for this?
            Signature

            Wealth Building Tools that Work
            http://www.uncommonwaytowealth.com

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[512716].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author giveusallfreedom
      Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

      Hey!!..

      Your post launch threads are getting quite frequent here... or is this a pre-launch thread?... either way it's naughty

      Someone will be along in a mo to set you straight and inform you that you're clueless...

      Great post g.u.a.l.... such offerings are what makes this forum the #1

      Peace

      Jay
      Ah Jay,

      It was really just right place at the right time. The gurus all got together and said...

      "hey let's throw freedom a bone. We'll launch a bunch of products at the same time and that will give him plenty of information to post on the WF. Thereby permanently cementing his reputation as being very informative although probably a little insane."

      What can I say Mike, Kern, and the Stomper Guys are my boys.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[106259].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi Mike,

        Thanks for taking my post in the spirit it was meant
        Seriously - when I "discovered" putting ads on thank you pages and swapping ads with others, it increased my bottom line extensively. I couldn't believe the amount of money I left on the table for so long.
        Personally, I think if you go a little deeper into this type of thinking, (and I mean this for MANY of the statements that are made for MANY of the other IM products out there - that end in 'you could be/are leaving money on the table') then I think you discover that it is actually impossible to accurately test the true metrics of 'one thing' versus 'another.'

        For example, compare -

        a) A product that is pushed on a thankyou page

        with

        b) A product pushed in the 'download email' that is sent as well to make sure they get the product in case of thankyou page failure

        And there are SO many other places where you can stick an advert for another of your products or someone elses. The list you could create is almost endless.

        1) Exit pop-ups

        2) Advertising in the admin area of a web-based product

        3) Pop up attached to pdf/exe file

        4) etc

        They all have slightly different variables - EG - a thankyou page offer is presented at a slightly different stage than the above examples, as is an OTO before the thankyou page.

        But all of that is irrelevant in the point I am making, which is -

        It's a balance between two things (and each system can find itself at either extreme OR somewhere in the middle)

        The extremes are

        a) whether you want to sell to your prospect, as much as possible and as quickly as possible at every single opportunity,

        or conversely

        b) if you want to soft sell, at a relaxed pace in an uncluttered and unpressured manner.

        You could argue all day whether one is better than the other. Most IMers tend towards the former - get as much as possible ASAP in case something changes, the market dies etc.

        But there is no way of knowing whether it would be more profitable in the slightly longer run to do one or the other without split testing two identical businesses over a period of years.

        For example, word of mouth referrals have powerful exponential aspects. If you never had to JV in order to get maximum purchases on launch day because your viralness due to customer satisfaction reached every nook and cranny of the market, what kind of percentages would one stand to gain? 60-70% of initial purchase cost on average?

        I realise it's possible to dispense with JVs after an initial launch that then leads to bigger upsells further down the funnel where JVs get nothing, but still I make the point that you can't accurately test it.

        Therefore is it right to assume that more pressure and more selling as soon as possible within the funnel is ALWAYS the best way to go?

        If so, where do we stop? Is no part of the website/sales process sacred from avoiding the 'you weren't selling as much as humanly possible in every stage of the process/every pixel of web-page therefore you left money on the table?'

        I hope this makes sense and ALSO comes across as a legitimate question rather than a launch-day-guru-bash.
        Signature


        Roger Davis

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[106351].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
          Roger,

          Yep, there are so many things to try, test, start, stop, etc. And yes, there are many places I (and many) leave money on the table.

          The way I put ads on my T-Y pages I don't necessarily consider hard-sell, or in your face, or anything like that. I typically put a 400px "johnson box" with a short description of the product with a link to that sales page.

          I put that ad at the VERY BOTTOM of those T-Y pages. You literally have to scroll all the way down to see them.

          Every where we look in the internet there are ads of some sort. Why not there too?

          Also, I have different lists which I use different approaches to the sales process.

          But with all of that, I still don't have the "right" answer as to how much is too much, or too in your face, etc.

          All I can do is keep trying and "listen" to my customers (their emails, how quick they opt out, their buying patters, etc).

          At the end of the day, I don't feel bad about marketing to my customers. I am usually pretty transparent about who I am, what I do and even how I will market to them. And they usually let me know when I am off the mark.

          Good topic...

          Mike
          Signature

          Are you protecting your on line business? If you have a website, blog, ecommerce store you NEED to back it up regularly. Your webhost will only protect you so much. Check out Quirkel. Protect yourself.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[106436].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author ExRat
            Hi Mike,

            Good answers!
            Every where we look in the internet there are ads of some sort. Why not there too?
            That does kind of sum up the one way of thinking I was describing.
            At the end of the day, I don't feel bad about marketing to my customers.
            I do appreciate that logic, particularly in IM. But that's where I need to clarify - my point is coming from the 'could you make MORE money over the slightly longer term by doing these things?' angle, rather than the 'make things nicer for the prospect for no other reason than because I think it's nice and 'ethical'.'

            I think, by writing that last post, I have managed to work out exactly why things are done in this way and why it IS better. But ironically, I can't spell it out because it would look like I had bad intentions regarding the subject of the thread (re bashing etc.)

            If I just mention what I feel are two key elements perhaps that is fair.

            a) the benefits of taking advantage of a situation that has been created concerning a prospects emotional state

            ...when this is tied closely into

            b) certain common characteristics of IM products relating to how 'important' they actually are

            Perhaps that is vague enough to keep me out of trouble with the positivity police

            Interesting tangent Mike, thanks for helping me to understand.
            Signature


            Roger Davis

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[106505].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
              I will say this: as VERY experienced programmer, I was dumbfounded by how much he's charging
              I guess I should polish up some of the tools I've built for myself and go sell them!
              Signature

              -Jason

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[106533].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
              Hey Roger...

              Positivity Police? Around here? Who???



              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

              I do appreciate that logic, particularly in IM. But that's where I need to clarify - my point is coming from the 'could you make MORE money over the slightly longer term by doing these things?' angle, rather than the 'make things nicer for the prospect for no other reason than because I think it's nice and 'ethical'.'
              Well, from my testing, to MY lists, in THIS market my answer is "Not yet". Not that it won't pay off more in the long run, but to date, ads on thank you pages have made much more so far.

              I'm not sure I understand your meaning in your "make things nicer..." reference. Do you mean presenting other offers for no other reason than it's nice and not unethical?

              If so, my answer is Why Not?

              Again, I don't use a real hard sell approach. I simply put a small ad where someone can see it. That's it. If someone buys, great. If they don't, that's fine too. If it makes them angry, they usually tell me. And to date, no one has complained about any thank you page ad I have ever put out.

              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

              I think, by writing that last post, I have managed to work out exactly why things are done in this way and why it IS better. But ironically, I can't spell it out because it would look like I had bad intentions regarding the subject of the thread (re bashing etc.)
              That's ok - say what you want to say... I promise not to get insulted

              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

              If I just mention what I feel are two key elements perhaps that is fair.

              a) the benefits of taking advantage of a situation that has been created concerning a prospects emotional state

              ...when this is tied closely into

              b) certain common characteristics of IM products relating to how 'important' they actually are

              Perhaps that is vague enough to keep me out of trouble with the positivity police
              Just today I was listening to a Tony Robbins CD where he was talking about tapping in to your prospects emotional state, and in fact, triggering a certain emotional state in order to get them to buy.

              Is that "unethical"? Or simply the process of selling?

              I am by no means a sales person, but I AM a customer. If I am "sold" a product, then apparently the marketing/process was good enough to convince me I really had to have that product. I am OK with that because at the end of the process, I understand that it was solely my decision to buy.

              As for importance, I always thought it was part of our job to convince people how important our product is and why they just had to have it. As well, what YOU may consider NOT important or even unnecessary, someone else will say it's the most important product they ever purchased.

              Disclaimer: I am not referring to being ripped off or mislead - just buying after a good sales process.

              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

              Interesting tangent Mike, thanks for helping me to understand.

              Glad to be of service...I think

              I will say this: as VERY experienced programmer, I was dumbfounded by how much he's charging
              I guess I should polish up some of the tools I've built for myself and go sell them!
              I'm not real sure what one has to do with the other. If your products are good, sell them. The price will shake out as the market sees fit...it usually does.

              Mike
              Signature

              Are you protecting your on line business? If you have a website, blog, ecommerce store you NEED to back it up regularly. Your webhost will only protect you so much. Check out Quirkel. Protect yourself.

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[106613].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author pjs
    Yea, I saw the video today too. Isn't this the same thing he teaches in Butterfly Marketing? I know I saw him present the "traffic source" (ad on JV's thank you page) in something. Maybe it was the 7 figure code dvd's.

    Anyways, I think the service is nice. It's an easy way to distribute this to your JV's, but it isn't anything earth shattering. More of a convenience really.

    The software does have some nice features like backend upsell commission tracking. I don't think I would use this personally. You got to hand it to Mike though. He bangs out 2 or 3 new products a year..
    Signature
    Mom and Pop Money WSO *** - How ONE Lead Capture Page Made $9K in 2 Weeks in the "Offline" niche!

    PeterSanchez.com >>> FollowPeter.com (Twitter)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[106632].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author giveusallfreedom
      I would really love to quote either Roger or Mike A here, but they both made so many points that doing so would be as long as this whole post By the way guys thanks for the great discussion.

      One of the things I wanted to add to the discussion sort of goes back to what Roger was saying about the non stop sell sell sell.

      There's nothing saying that you have to sell something every time. You can put anything in one of these adds. Put a link to a branded report that can be instantly downloaded. No sign up required. The report will still make people, put it can actually be perceived as a bonus instead of another sale.

      Put a link to a branded video on somebody else's site. With Camtasia you could do this in a real cool way. Make one video and then customize the introduction for each JV. Then just throw an opt in page to the side of it.

      I'm sure you can come up with dozens more options.

      Also Roger...NEVER hint that you're holding something back Man that just makes us want to know even more.

      There's a whole lot more that I wanted to comment on but I lost my train of thought so I'm going to go back and reread the posts and maybe I'll come back.

      I will say this though. This is definitely one of those threads that is getting printed out to save for future reference.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[107308].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi,

        OK, if you want me to spill my conclusions I shall spill, but there's nothing ground-breaking here - only for me personally.

        My overall question was this -

        a) Should we be trying to find more ways to sell/cross-sell/upsell (etc) at EVERY given opportunity. If so, what reasoning lies behind this?

        or

        b) The alternative would be to chill out, kick back, create uncluttered pages without multiple scripts all needing to work in harmony. Slowly drip,drip those offers out. Think long term and benefit from word of mouth referrals from very satisfied customers etc.

        I'm not sure I understand your meaning in your "make things nicer..." reference. Do you mean presenting other offers for no other reason than it's nice and not unethical?
        I did confuse you there. I meant that the reason and motivation for analysing this was not because 'it shows more respect to the customer/is more ethical' - I was trying to explain that the reason was from purely selfish marketing reasons - IE - would we be more successful if we adopted b) (above) as our mantra?

        And the conclusion, in the context of IM, was that I realised why we must sell as much as possible as quickly as possible and not allow valuable web page real estate to be sitting there idle, in front of a prospect in an emotional 'buy now' state, with credit card loaded, in hand (and why the successful IM gurus adopt this philosophy.)

        Because of -

        1) the nature of the ever-changing internet (today's gold is tomorrow's pixel dust)

        2) the nature of the market -

        a) the consumer (high turnover, fickle attitude (in general))

        b) the competition (impending arrival of big spending corporations PLUS impending arrival of regulation (often funded by those well connected corporations as a business strategy to stifle the smaller guy))

        3) the nature of the products (in general, a high turnover of products in order to capitalize on every fad going. Therefore not always of the highest quality, not always necessary.) This also makes sense due to the large amount of purchasers who do nothing with the purchase.

        This list is not exhaustive. I could drone on about how IM is an unstable marketplace. How it's easy to go from zero to hero and back to zero. How long term strategies are NOT as important as they are assumed to be. How the anonymity factor means that even if disaster strikes, one can 're-invent' themselves overnight.

        Of course there is a line - extremely short term strategies (IE the deceptive, counter productive ones) are not wise either. But amongst the clutter of the internet, many scammers trade on the fact that it is difficult to 'get the word out.' Even in tight-knit online communities, the turnover is so high that scammers continually re-appear in new guises and continue to successfully scam.

        Therefore - it is wise to 'strike while the iron is hot.' It is wise to upsell, cross sell and sell,sell,sell as much as is humanly possible - particularly when one has 'tickled' a prospect into an emotional 'ready to buy' state.

        Because if we don't take advantage, one thing that is guaranteed is that the next guy will. He will clean that wallet out for you.

        Most of my conclusions here were the result of one of my many 'duh!' moments. Hence, I wasn't too keen to share at first. Plus, the conversation started in a thread that is all about the imminent launch of a product, and nowadays I try to avoid falling into the trap of being 'the hater.'

        So for many, they will read this and wonder - 'what's new? - Do you mean to say you 'didn't get it'?'



        For some who are at a certain level of success, they will find that being able to check stats and quickly change their thankyou page cross promotions a great time saver - regardless of any cost.

        Others may simply go out and get their coder to construct something similar based on their own servers.

        Others may find that the hassle they save by not having to add these things manually is offset because if this system (which is not under their control) breaks down, all of those cross sells will be inactive. But you already covered that Mike when you mentioned your knowledge of the infrastructure that has been put in place.

        In summary, I have learnt a lot from this discussion. Most of it is probably 'the basics' for those who are way ahead of me in this game. But for me, this is something that I needed to understand in order to move forward in my quest for success.

        How I apply this understanding to my own business in my own style, is a different proposition. But that's 'to be seen and not heard'.

        HTH
        Signature


        Roger Davis

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[107555].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author giveusallfreedom
          Roger,

          I think between the two of us we've written a book on the WF the last couple of days.

          I'd like to provide as a counter argument to marketers that I follow pretty thoroughly, that are definitely in it for the long term, have been really successful in IM, and don't participate in major launches for the most part.

          David Vallieres
          Perry Marshall

          The funny thing is that I actually found out about David by the exact technique that I flamed in my other thread. That being said, the first product that I actually bought from David, so exceeded my expectations that I have bought hundreds of dollars from him since. And Perry is just plain awesome. He has a suite of profits that never get old and allow you to continually upgrade based on your business level.

          Both of these marketers actually show that quality and the long term customer are viable IM business models.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[108016].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author ExRat
            Hi G.U.A.F.,

            Good points. I'm having a study of David's advanced email marketing course currently - which was a bonus, yes!

            You're forcing me to make another point I didn't particularly want to make in this thread.

            If you have the ability to do what those two guys have done in the way that they have, then you have the choice.

            But if you don't actually have their ability and depth of knowledge and experience to apply to your products, then you might not have the choice and might find it better/easier to jump on the bandwagon described above.
            Signature


            Roger Davis

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[108355].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

              But if you don't actually have their ability and depth of knowledge and experience to apply to your products, then you might not have the choice and might find it better/easier to jump on the bandwagon described above.
              At the end of the day, they're ALL bandwgons, aren't they? You either get on ONE bandwagon and follow that, or you get on the other and follow THAT.

              There's nothing new in this niche, or marketing in general.

              Maybe I'm being cheeky, but if you think about it, it's true. You simply jump on the bandwagon you feel comfortable with.

              My 2c...

              Mike
              Signature

              Are you protecting your on line business? If you have a website, blog, ecommerce store you NEED to back it up regularly. Your webhost will only protect you so much. Check out Quirkel. Protect yourself.

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[108371].message }}
Avatar of Unregistered

Trending Topics