by jkiley
55 replies
I have setup an account with aweber because of autoresponse, but now I regret it.

It seems like only about 10% people confirm their subscription. It seems over kill to me anyway that they enter the email address, press the button, then get an email (or not get - who knows) and confirm again.

I am noticing that about 10 or maybe 15% people are actually confirming thru emails. Why is that a requirement from aweber? Users entered the email address - nobody forced them - so why confirm again?

This doesn't happen in any other industry. I don't swipe my card twice at walmart to confirm that yes I really do want to buy that gallon of milk, do I?

I imported thousands of email addresses from my database to them, and all I have are 350 subscribers....it's redicules. Even on daily basis, about 40-50 people enter their email addresses but then at the end of the day only 5-8 people actually become subscribers.

Maybe I made a mistake and should move to contact constant or something.
#aweber #killing
  • Profile picture of the author Eric Graudins
    Just because you had thousands of addresses on your mailing list doesn't mean that thousands of people want to continue hearing from you.
    Obviously it's only 350 of them.

    And you really need to do a bit of homework about mailing lists and double optin, as the above posters have mentioned.

    cheers, Eric G.
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    • Profile picture of the author jkiley
      Originally Posted by Eric Graudins View Post

      Just because you had thousands of addresses on your mailing list doesn't mean that thousands of people want to continue hearing from you.
      Obviously it's only 350 of them.

      And you really need to do a bit of homework about mailing lists and double optin. It seems that you don't really understand the reasons why it is standard practice to confirm the addition of an email address to a mailing list.

      cheers, Eric G.
      I was fine for few weeks after I imported all the email addresses thinking the same thing that those people didn't want to hear from me...fine. But what about daily statistics? If I am seeing that 40 people enter their email address and then only 8 of them actually become "active subscribers" then yes, there is something wrong here.

      I have never in my life confirmed anybody's email after I entered my email address. I think this is the normal practice. Unless I am dying to have something I would never confirm twice (first by entering the email address and second by receiving the email an confirming again).
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      • Profile picture of the author graphicsgenie
        Originally Posted by jkiley View Post

        I have never in my life confirmed anybody's email after I entered my email address. I think this is the normal practice. Unless I am dying to have something I would never confirm twice (first by entering the email address and second by receiving the email an confirming again).
        If you aren't prepared to double optin to peoples emails why the hell do you expect people to optin to yours.

        This statement is typical to so many marketers today. I have no doubts whatsover that you infact purchased your 1000's of list, so I'm very suprised even 10% has opted in.
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      • Profile picture of the author SageSound
        Originally Posted by jkiley View Post

        I have never in my life confirmed anybody's email after I entered my email address. I think this is the normal practice.
        Look in the mirror dude! You're seriously complaining about people who have the same attitudes YOU have???

        There's a REASON for double-opt-in. If you buy something with lifetime free (or even paid) updates, and seriously aren't interested in ever getting update notices from the vendor, then your behavior makes perfect sense.

        The disconect in my mind is that when I buy something and I *DO* want to get update notices ABOUT THAT PRODUCT, why should i have to endure endless promotional emails for everything BUT that product?

        Anyway, this isn't an issue with AWeber. It's how MOST email list management outfits deal with the CAN-SPAM legislation, and is primarly intended to save THEIR butts -- and IPs and domain names.

        You're always free to set up a mailing list script on your host and use that. I think there are a few in Fantastico. Your mail blaster, your rules. Just beware -- if any spam complaints are sent to your host, they can shut you down. GoDaddy is especially nasty in that respect!

        -David
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    • Profile picture of the author jkiley
      Originally Posted by Paul McQuillan View Post

      There is no way the double opt in is responsible for a 10% confirmation
      rate. That is way too low. Something is wrong on your end.

      Interest fell apart somewhere between sign up and confirmation.
      How? why? If they entered the email address and then got the email and never confirmed then I would have to say that it's the confirmation email.

      Has anybody done any studies? I am a software developer, and have build custom systems on my site (which are realtime- unlike google analytics) so I know exactly who is doing what at my site. I am seeing these numbers of emails being wasted and it's painful.
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    • Profile picture of the author normpurc
      Hi Paul,

      Just a quick note about your Dane.
      Mine died at the age of 11 years and was GREAT.
      He was a watch dog --- laid on the couch and watched!!

      Thanks for making me smile and bring back some great memories.

      Oh yes, I think your advice is spot on.
      NormPurc
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      Please read the sig file rules

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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    Aweber is just protecting their azzz. And they are free to do it, they rule their world as they want. It's up to us to decided to use their system or not.

    Paul, that's a great piece of information. Thanks for the link
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    People make good money selling to the rich. But the rich got rich selling to the masses.
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  • Profile picture of the author Carl-Reed
    you need to give your subscribers an incentive to click the confirrmation link, if you're just importing our subscribers into aweber theres obviouusly no incenntive.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kenneth Fox
    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but did the OP
    let his list know ahead of time that he was changing
    email services and to look out for a confirmation link?

    Letting your list know ahead of time and also giving them
    a bonus incentive to confirm on the new list will increase
    your numbers quite a bit.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ellen Violette
      I have to agree with Kenneth Fox and Carl-Reed and I'd add that when you use snagits and show people exactly what to expect and how to opt in PLUS an incentive you get a much higher conversion rate.
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  • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
    Originally Posted by jkiley View Post

    It seems like only about 10% people confirm their subscription. It seems over kill to me anyway that they enter the email address, press the button, then get an email (or not get - who knows) and confirm again.

    I am noticing that about 10 or maybe 15% people are actually confirming thru emails. Why is that a requirement from aweber? Users entered the email address - nobody forced them - so why confirm again?
    It protects both you and your mailing list manager from spam complaints.

    Think about this...

    Right now I could go around to all the single opt-in email lists that I know of and enter YOUR email address. Since there is no double opt-in, you'd automatically be on all these lists. Heck, I'll throw in a few porn newsletters just for good measure. And that's your political persuasion? I'll get you on newsletters that are the opposite of what you believe.

    Next thing you know, you're on dozens of lists that you didn't request to be on. You're probably hitting the spam button. The marketers (and the mailing list managers) are getting hammered with your spam complaints.

    That's why there's the double opt-in. Not only for people who type in their email address wrong and similar errors, but also for malicious folks who sign their "friends" up to email lists.

    Cheers,
    Becky
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    • Profile picture of the author jkiley
      Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

      It protects both you and your mailing list manager from spam complaints.

      Think about this...

      Right now I could go around to all the single opt-in email lists that I know of and enter YOUR email address. Since there is no double opt-in, you'd automatically be on all these lists. Heck, I'll throw in a few porn newsletters just for good measure. And that's your political persuasion? I'll get you on newsletters that are the opposite of what you believe.

      Next thing you know, you're on dozens of lists that you didn't request to be on. You're probably hitting the spam button. The marketers (and the mailing list managers) are getting hammered with your spam complaints.

      That's why there's the double opt-in. Not only for people who type in their email address wrong and similar errors, but also for malicious folks who sign their "friends" up to email lists.

      Cheers,
      Becky
      But...

      If all the emails (single and double opt-in both) are supposed to have un-subscribe link at the bottom then they can always unsubscribe. So, if I receive an email from some porn site, and I unsubscribe from it...I am out of that list. So doesn't matter, everybody will get the first email anyway. Wheather it is a confirmation email or the real thing, and at that point I can either unsubscribe or not confirm. So, if somebody puts my name in 30 email lists then I will be getting 30 emails anyway (confirmation or real thing)...so I really don't see how confirmation are any better.

      The only thing these confirmation emails get is a "business" for aweber.

      That brings me to my second point. Which I didn't understand but now I know why.

      When I was researching who to pick, I checked Alexa rankings. Aweber is higher in rank then constant contact. I was bit surprised because I have never received any email from aweber but I get emails from constant contact all the time (I am talking about emails sent by searc, wallmart, etc.). So, I was wondering why aweber has higher alexa ranking.

      Now I know why, because they ask user to click on the link to come to their site and that is why alexa ranking is higher. But no-real company actually uses them. They have lesser number of customers then constant contact.

      They are doing business by feeding this fear of "spam"

      I have just convinced myself...I am moving to constant contact!
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      • Profile picture of the author CliveG
        Originally Posted by jkiley View Post

        But...

        If all the emails (single and double opt-in both) are supposed to have un-subscribe link at the bottom then they can always unsubscribe. So, if I receive an email from some porn site, and I unsubscribe from it...I am out of that list. So doesn't matter,
        I wish it were that easy. Many of the dubious mailing lists use the "unsubscribe" link to confirm that a human being reads the emails so they can increase the spam sent to the email address not stop it!

        Double opt in is essential in my view to protect abuse. Anyone could enter my email address on a website, but only I can click on the link that is actually sent to my address.
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        • Profile picture of the author jkiley
          Originally Posted by CliveG View Post

          I wish it were that easy. Many of the dubious mailing lists use the "unsubscribe" link to confirm that a human being reads the emails so they can increase the spam sent to the email address not stop it!

          Double opt in is essential in my view to protect abuse. Anyone could enter my email address on a website, but only I can click on the link that is actually sent to my address.
          ..but...but...aweber and constant contact and other legit companies require that you have to have the unsubscriber link at the bottom. So, if you are using their system then you are fine. How can aweber's system protect me from some dubious mailing system? They can't.

          I just don't understand, and I don't know if there is anything to understand except that it feeds their purpose. Fearmongers.
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        • Profile picture of the author ivana
          Hm...Not sure if it was mentioned, but is your thank you page aweber thank you or the custom - your thank you!

          You will increase confirmation if it is custom thank you!

          If you do not know how to do this. Here are the instructions:

          Create plain thank you page html. Add thank you for subscribing, in order to receive the free guide on blah blah bla, you need to confirm, so please go to your inbox now and look for a message from YOUR e-mail Title, and please confirm on the link provide. This protects your e-mail address from scam.

          Second step, go to aweber where the web form is, in the middle of the first page set up, you have text where is says aweber "thank you" page. change it to your URL.

          You can add success page as well! So after they confirm, they are taken directly to the free guide.
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          • Profile picture of the author jkiley
            Originally Posted by ivana View Post

            Hm...Not sure if it was mentioned, but is your thank you page aweber thank you or the custom - your thank you!

            You will increase confirmation if it is custom thank you!

            If you do not know how to do this. Here are the instructions:

            Create plain thank you page html. Add thank you for subscribing, in order to receive the free guide on blah blah bla, you need to confirm, so please go to your inbox now and look for a message from YOUR e-mail Title, and please confirm on the link provide. This protects your e-mail address from scam.

            Second step, go to aweber where the web form is, in the middle of the first page set up, you have text where is says aweber "thank you" page. change it to your URL.

            You can add success page as well! So after they confirm, they are taken directly to the free guide.
            Now, that's a good advice. I will do this, and see if this makes any difference.
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            • Profile picture of the author ivana
              Glad I could help!

              Look up some "free thank you page template" for wording, OR you can subscribe for few free guide and see how your competitors do it
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            • Profile picture of the author Lance K
              Originally Posted by ivana View Post

              Hm...Not sure if it was mentioned, but is your thank you page aweber thank you or the custom - your thank you!

              You will increase confirmation if it is custom thank you!

              If you do not know how to do this. Here are the instructions:

              Create plain thank you page html. Add thank you for subscribing, in order to receive the free guide on blah blah bla, you need to confirm, so please go to your inbox now and look for a message from YOUR e-mail Title, and please confirm on the link provide. This protects your e-mail address from scam.

              Second step, go to aweber where the web form is, in the middle of the first page set up, you have text where is says aweber "thank you" page. change it to your URL.

              You can add success page as well! So after they confirm, they are taken directly to the free guide.
              Originally Posted by jkiley View Post

              Now, that's a good advice. I will do this, and see if this makes any difference.

              Be sure to test different versions of the "Thank You" page as well.
              • Video
              • Checklist w/Screen Capture
              • Text w/audio
              • etc.
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              "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
              ~ Zig Ziglar
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              • Profile picture of the author jkiley
                Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

                Be sure to test different versions of the "Thank You" page as well.
                • Video
                • Checklist w/Screen Capture
                • Text w/audio
                • etc.
                Either you guys are now giving me really good advices or whatever I wanted to get off of my chest is off - and my brain has started to work again. hahah
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            • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
              Aweber is not at fault here.

              First off, Aweber does not force you to have confirmed opt-in on a new account. If you have a very high complaint rate for a long time, they will enforce that you use confirmed opt-in to cut down on spam complaints.

              If too many people hit their "spam" button on the email program, the email deliverability suffers.

              Aweber has worked hard to ensure email deliverability and one little account complaining about "confirmed opt-in is not fair or doesn't make sense" is not going to make a bit of difference.

              They have been in business years and know what they are doing.

              That's the way the game is played. They prefer confirmed opt-in as do most autoresponder mailing list services.

              If you don't like them, change to another service.

              However, it is quite apparent that you did not do a lot of research as far as what aweber lets you do or the purpose of confirmed opt-in.

              You mentioned a 10-15% confirm rate.

              This has nothing to do with aweber. This is your responsibility.

              The reason this is happening is most likely one of the following:

              1) What you are offering in exchange for an email address is not of great value to your market
              2) Your market is not computer savvy and this confirmed opt-in process confuses them
              3) Your "Please confirm your subscription" thank you page is terrible
              40 The people who you are attracting to your opt-in page are people just looking for a quick freebie and even the small work involved to confirm, to them, is not worth the price of your freebie.

              You need to slow down, take some more time doing research on this issue, and don't blame aweber or others for your lack of results.

              Spend 1 hour or so just reasearching confirmed opt-in, the services who use it, the online businesses who use it, and another hour just reading the knowledge base and set up instructions from aweber.
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          • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
            Originally Posted by ivana View Post

            Hm...Not sure if it was mentioned, but is your thank you page aweber thank you or the custom - your thank you!

            You will increase confirmation if it is custom thank you!

            If you do not know how to do this. Here are the instructions:

            Create plain thank you page html. Add thank you for subscribing, in order to receive the free guide on blah blah bla, you need to confirm, so please go to your inbox now and look for a message from YOUR e-mail Title, and please confirm on the link provide. This protects your e-mail address from scam.

            Second step, go to aweber where the web form is, in the middle of the first page set up, you have text where is says aweber "thank you" page. change it to your URL.

            You can add success page as well! So after they confirm, they are taken directly to the free guide.
            Just pasted this into a word doc: I'm going to have to use this service soon, and will definately do this. I'm sure it's quite basic for experienced marketers, but extremely helpful for beginners.

            I hope the OP can get past his upset to take some of the excellent advice here. I suspect the guy who said the low opt in rate could be due to the OP not warning his list that he was changing services, and then giving them some kind of incentive was right on the money!

            Anyway, thanks to everyone (especially Ivana), who generously offered advice with the voice of experience; it's stuff I needed to hear also.
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      • Profile picture of the author Hesaidblissfully
        Originally Posted by jkiley View Post

        But...

        If all the emails (single and double opt-in both) are supposed to have un-subscribe link at the bottom then they can always unsubscribe. So, if I receive an email from some porn site, and I unsubscribe from it...I am out of that list. So doesn't matter, everybody will get the first email anyway. Wheather it is a confirmation email or the real thing, and at that point I can either unsubscribe or not confirm. So, if somebody puts my name in 30 email lists then I will be getting 30 emails anyway (confirmation or real thing)...so I really don't see how confirmation are any better.
        As a software engineer (i think you said you were), you probably have a much more logical way of approaching things than most people. Not everyone is as logical, calm and rational as you. Many will just see something from someone they don't know and hit the spam button.

        Also, like someone mentioned above, some people don't trust unsubscribing from lists they're not familiar with because spammers put an unsubscribe link in their emails so that when people click it, it confirms that the email address is "live".

        The bottom line is that, yes, the double opt-in process is an inconvenience, but it's the lesser of two evils. Would you rather lose a few subscribers because they forgot to confirm their address, or get hit with spam complaints because some disgruntled customer/troll/jerk who doesn't like you decided to sign a bunch of unsuspecting people up to your list?

        And yes, I agree with the others that giving people an incentive to confirm will likely increase your number of subscribes.

        Good luck!
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      • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
        Originally Posted by jkiley View Post

        But...

        If all the emails (single and double opt-in both) are supposed to have un-subscribe link at the bottom then they can always unsubscribe. So, if I receive an email from some porn site, and I unsubscribe from it...I am out of that list. So doesn't matter, everybody will get the first email anyway. Wheather it is a confirmation email or the real thing, and at that point I can either unsubscribe or not confirm. So, if somebody puts my name in 30 email lists then I will be getting 30 emails anyway (confirmation or real thing)...so I really don't see how confirmation are any better.

        The only thing these confirmation emails get is a "business" for aweber.

        That brings me to my second point. Which I didn't understand but now I know why.

        When I was researching who to pick, I checked Alexa rankings. Aweber is higher in rank then constant contact. I was bit surprised because I have never received any email from aweber but I get emails from constant contact all the time (I am talking about emails sent by searc, wallmart, etc.). So, I was wondering why aweber has higher alexa ranking.

        Now I know why, because they ask user to click on the link to come to their site and that is why alexa ranking is higher. But no-real company actually uses them. They have lesser number of customers then constant contact.

        They are doing business by feeding this fear of "spam"

        I have just convinced myself...I am moving to constant contact!
        Except everyone has been taught never ever click on an unsubscribe link from a spammer....so they will hit the spam button.

        A couple of things that could cause what's going on.

        1. Your confirm email is tripping spam filters agogo. Many things can cause this, so contact Aweber, and have them help you fix this.

        2. Your confirm emails are ending up in junk folders. To fix this, put something on your thanks for subscribing page reminding people to whitelist the email address you're using, and include specific instructions on how to do this for various email services (like yahoo, hotmail, netzero, etc.).

        10-15% confirmation is low, it should be somewhere around 50%. I would fix that before doing anything else.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Dude its an option you can turn off - turn it off if youre not happy. But then expect numerous "why the hell are you sending me emails.." type emails.
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    • Profile picture of the author jkiley
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      Dude its an option you can turn off - turn it off if youre not happy. But then expect numerous "why the hell are you sending me emails.." type emails.

      How? where? I don't see any option in aweber. In constant contact you can turn if "on", but aweber doesn't have that option to turn if off. At least not that I know of. Where is it?
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      • Profile picture of the author Lance K
        It depends on the type of account you have.

        Give a shout to their support desk and they'll tell you if you can do it. If not, open another account.

        If you do go with the account capable of single opt-in, your messages won't come from their premium servers. Which means deliverability won't be as good.

        Originally Posted by jkiley View Post

        How? where? I don't see any option in aweber. In constant contact you can turn if "on", but aweber doesn't have that option to turn if off. At least not that I know of. Where is it?
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  • Profile picture of the author bertuseng
    I think maybe you should look at two things to better your confimation ration:

    1. Headline of your confirmation request email. If it doesn't have a strong call to action or if it doesn't remind them why they signed up, they won't confirm.

    2. Your offer needs to be improved. Make it something that they have to confirm to get and that they can't refuse.

    About 60%-70% of my subscribers confirm. I hope this helps.
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      You need to take a serious look at the process you're using.

      If you want people to confirm their subscription with you you need to give them a really enticing incentive to do it.

      Also if you actually want them to READ the emails you send then you should make the information you're going to give them enticing too.

      A combination of a free report, audio, software etc to confirm their subscription and some kind of high value content email course works well.

      Keep in mind that to get people confirmed on your list and reading your emails you have to give them what THEY want.

      The process of confirmation is quite a good test of how well you've set up your offer to be on your list.

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    Aweber is not killing you... inexperience is killing you.

    You are obviously a very clever guy who can write good software.

    Why are you flailing around trying to handle marketing when you
    clearly understand so little about it?

    I'm not saying this to you to be a jerk. I'm pointing it out to help you.

    You have, in your possession, that which countless marketers struggle
    endlessly to achieve - a good product of your own and traffic.

    Do have any idea how much money you've LOST by not bringing in a
    partner or hiring a pro to help you market your product all this time?

    You surely do.

    So, why? Because you are not cool with giving up control?

    Because you want to learn about marketing?

    Why? Seriously...

    The reason I ask is because you've been raging against the machine
    for some time now. First it's long-copy and sales letters you can't stand.

    Check.

    Now, it's Aweber and the most basic aspects of email marketing that
    have you fuming and blaming THEM for your 10% confirm rate?

    That's inexperience wearing the mask of aggravation, dude.

    There are so many here that are fully qualified and well-positioned to
    help you turn things around - and fast...

    And please understand, I'm not piking for the gig... I'm booked.

    I just want to see you posting about HUGE improvements and how
    much better your sales process is working.

    Instead of starting threads disparaging a company that makes many
    people a FORTUNE with the very same service you are railing against.

    Brian
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    • Profile picture of the author doctfeelgood
      What a detailed reply: I have only recently joined and already i have learned more from you guys than any text book. I hope my posts will also help others. Thank you
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  • Profile picture of the author Jillian Slack
    Did you suddenly start switching your people over to aweber, without telling them what was going on or (as others have said) giving them an incentive to opt-in again?

    Imagine this.

    The people on your list were going about their day, when suddenly they got an email saying they needed to opt-in to your list.

    They are now thinking, "WTH? I already did that. I'm not doing it again."

    They don't realize you are changing from one service to another.

    They don't care that you are changing.

    They may not even care that it means they will no longer hear from you.

    Double opt-in protects YOU because it cuts down on accusations of spam.

    If the subscriber has to go through the second step of the double opt-in, they can't very well say that you signed them up without their knowledge.

    Plus a smaller list does not mean you have less of a business or less income potential.

    Plenty of people have made good money with a smaller list.

    It keeps your list lean, clean and mean, baby.
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
      [QUOTE=Jillian Slack;1179219]

      They are now thinking, "WTH? I already did that. I'm not doing it again."
      QUOTE]

      I thought the expression was WTF! ;-)

      Oh yes, I just remembered, some people aren't that crude!
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      • Profile picture of the author Jillian Slack
        [quote=Greg guitar;1179362]
        Originally Posted by Jillian Slack View Post


        They are now thinking, "WTH? I already did that. I'm not doing it again."
        QUOTE]

        I thought the expression was WTF! ;-)

        Oh yes, I just remembered, some people aren't that crude!

        I was trying to be nice and use "What the hell?" instead.
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  • Profile picture of the author BST
    That's indeed ridiculous. I'm just wondering how the problem could have come about, there must be something wrong somewhere. Maybe you should try to redo the process all over again.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kingdom_Mines
      Banned
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      • Profile picture of the author Barbara Eyre
        In reference to the unsubscribe link - yes, we all know it's there and what it is there for.

        However, I just sent out a newsletter for a client and the unsubscribe link is directly below the bottom of the content ... the spacing is the equivalent of just the next paragraph - another words - right in front of their face. Plain English, etc.

        Yet, it never fails that we get a good handful that just respond to the newsletter email (or send to a completely different email) a request to be deleted from the mailing list. Instead of just clicking on the unsub link.

        So, that is why you can not rely on a single opt-in and the unsub link.

        Double opt-in gives you better customers typically because they took the extra steps to be on your list. They want to be on your list. The numbers may be smaller, but the quality will be there.

        Hopefully, by following a lot of the great advice given here, you will be able to clean up your list and fine-tune your signup process and have great success.
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      • Profile picture of the author santosm
        jkiley,

        Originally Posted by jkiley View Post

        This doesn't happen in any other industry. I don't swipe my card twice at walmart to confirm that yes I really do want to buy that gallon of milk, do I?
        So true.....but....you then have to enter your pin to confirm that it was you that swiped.

        Okay seriously take another look at some of these responses from warriors.

        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Importing addresses is very different from building a list, Jason.
        Originally Posted by Eric Graudins View Post

        you really need to do a bit of homework about mailing lists and double optin, as the above posters have mentioned.

        cheers, Eric G.
        Originally Posted by Paul McQuillan View Post

        There is no way the double opt in is responsible for a 10% confirmation
        rate. That is way too low. Something is wrong on your end.

        Interest fell apart somewhere between sign up and confirmation.
        Originally Posted by Kenneth Fox View Post

        Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but did the OP
        let his list know ahead of time that he was changing
        email services and to look out for a confirmation link?

        Letting your list know ahead of time and also giving them
        a bonus incentive to confirm on the new list will increase
        your numbers quite a bit.
        Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

        It protects both you and your mailing list manager from spam complaints.

        Think about this...


        That's why there's the double opt-in. Not only for people who type in their email address wrong and similar errors, but also for malicious folks who sign their "friends" up to email lists.
        Originally Posted by CliveG View Post

        I wish it were that easy. Many of the dubious mailing lists use the "unsubscribe" link to confirm that a human being reads the emails so they can increase the spam sent to the email address not stop it!

        Double opt in is essential in my view to protect abuse. Anyone could enter my email address on a website, but only I can click on the link that is actually sent to my address.
        Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

        Aweber is not at fault here.

        You need to slow down, take some more time doing research on this issue, and don't blame aweber or others for your lack of results.

        Spend 1 hour or so just reasearching confirmed opt-in,

        Originally Posted by Hesaidblissfully View Post

        The bottom line is that, yes, the double opt-in process is an inconvenience, but it's the lesser of two evils. Would you rather lose a few subscribers because they forgot to confirm their address, or get hit with spam complaints because some disgruntled customer/troll/jerk who doesn't like you decided to sign a bunch of unsuspecting people up to your list?

        Good luck!
        Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

        Aweber is not killing you... inexperience is killing you.
        Originally Posted by Jillian Slack View Post


        Double opt-in protects YOU because it cuts down on accusations of spam.

        If the subscriber has to go through the second step of the double opt-in, they can't very well say that you signed them up without their knowledge.

        Plus a smaller list does not mean you have less of a business or less income potential.

        Plenty of people have made good money with a smaller list.

        It keeps your list lean, clean and mean, baby.
        Originally Posted by Barbara Eyre View Post

        Double opt-in gives you better customers typically because they took the extra steps to be on your list. They want to be on your list. The numbers may be smaller, but the quality will be there.
        Originally Posted by FriendlyRob View Post

        I'm sure it has been said before but the double opt-in requirement is win/win in my opinion. We know that those we are sending our products and newsletters to really want to hear from us and the recipient doesn't have others signing the up for things as a lark.

        It is one thing for me to type in my email address, anyone who knows it can type in my email address. But only I can ensure that I actually did it myself.

        Now that there is some serious advice about why we should double opt-in or rather why should request a confirmation from your subscribers. Failing to do that could get your email addy blacklisted.....then your emails won't even get through, let alone read.

        You didn't actually mention how you obatined your list. So here's some more food for thought.

        1. 'If' you bought this list, then chances are, the emails were gathered from people who have filled out a survey in the past and probably don't remember ever doing it, or worse,the list has been generated from some dishonest person trying to make a quick buck from inexperienced marketers. You don't want this list!

        2. 'If' you built this list and i have to add, made them totally aware that you were changing service and out of 1000's only 350 have confirmed, well then man that is your list. Those guys are your most responsive readers. They are the ones that read your emails and will more than likely buy from you in the future. Forget the rest. Think of it as a blessing. You culled a crappy list to a great list!

        If it is the latter and your still confused why you have such a low response rate,then as others have already mentioned in this thread...ask yourself this.

        a. Did I let my list know gradually over time (not just once) that i was changing service?
        b. Did i offer my list a the best incentive to opt-in again?
        c. Was my email headline effective?

        Cheers Marianne
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  • Profile picture of the author Jillian Slack
    This is like someone complaining about a traffic light turning yellow before it turns red.

    Why should it turn yellow first?

    It's a warning that it's going to turn red.

    Why should there be a warning? You know it's going to turn red and you'll need to stop, so why not go from green to red without yellow between?

    Oh, it makes things safer, you say?

    OK.

    But you still think the yellow light is stupid?

    Well, that's just the way it goes. People are used to it, they expect it, and they will either run it or deal with it.

    So if some of your people won't click on the double opt-in, either do a better job of educating them beforehand or let them go.

    Doesn't matter if you think it's stupid or not. Just the way it works.

    Would you rather have all kinds of spam accusations and get shut down?

    A lot of people would rather click "spam" instead of unsubscribing. If they end up doing that after a while, at least you can prove that they DID, in fact, double opt-in, so it was not spam.
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  • Profile picture of the author FriendlyRob
    I'm sure it has been said before but the double opt-in requirement is win/win in my opinion. We know that those we are sending our products and newsletters to really want to hear from us and the recipient doesn't have others signing the up for things as a lark.

    It is one thing for me to type in my email address, anyone who knows it can type in my email address. But only I can ensure that I actually did it myself.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Today, Aweber is killing me because it seems to be having significant technical issues actually confirming a subscription request from either a form submit or a direct email sent to the autoresponder account. I've been testing it for 2 hours and it's dead.
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  • Profile picture of the author David233
    I don't use Aweber so I can't comment on the double-opt in feature. Is there any way you can adjust the setting to single opt-in? I am sure it will be more user friendly.

    David
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by jkiley View Post

    This doesn't happen in any other industry. I don't swipe my card twice at walmart to confirm that yes I really do want to buy that gallon of milk, do I?
    No, but you still double opt-in.

    1. Swipe card
    2. Enter PIN
    3. Amount OK?

    Compare the mailing list:

    1. Visit squeeze page
    2. Enter name and email
    3. Please confirm

    Same process.

    Do you click "no" when the store asks if the amount is okay?

    Why not?
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Park
    Originally Posted by jkiley View Post

    I have setup an account with aweber because of autoresponse, but now I regret it.

    It seems like only about 10% people confirm their subscription. It seems over kill to me anyway that they enter the email address, press the button, then get an email (or not get - who knows) and confirm again.

    I am noticing that about 10 or maybe 15% people are actually confirming thru emails. Why is that a requirement from aweber? Users entered the email address - nobody forced them - so why confirm again?

    This doesn't happen in any other industry. I don't swipe my card twice at walmart to confirm that yes I really do want to buy that gallon of milk, do I?

    I imported thousands of email addresses from my database to them, and all I have are 350 subscribers....it's redicules. Even on daily basis, about 40-50 people enter their email addresses but then at the end of the day only 5-8 people actually become subscribers.

    Maybe I made a mistake and should move to contact constant or something.
    Well, only reason I can think of is maybe you're not using their default
    confirmation message (which I find it very helpful).

    If you ARE using their default message, you could probably create your own
    page where you hand-guide them what to do.

    For example, you could insert pics to look for your email in their inbox OR
    junk folder. Once they find your email, click on the link (with another pic).

    This way, you'll increase the clickthrough rate.

    And I know other people explained this already but I'd like to emphasize
    it again that Aweber is probably the BEST autoresponder company
    that has a very high deliverability rate.

    If you're going to make some SERIOUS money online, my suggestion is that
    you make yourself familiar with their system.

    It will only help you in the long run.
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    • Profile picture of the author JonMills
      Its one of those things that is a must nowdays. Holy crap can you imagine all the spam reports you would get if you didnt have double opt in?

      People are very leary in giving out their email unless you give them something of value
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  • Profile picture of the author jc1971
    All I can possibly say to all of this is that the double opt-in system improves the
    quality of your subscribers,does it not...and it keeps the time wasters at bay by the system sussing out the wheat from the chaf....
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  • Profile picture of the author badfun
    I have not experienced such a high percentage of subscribers not confirming. More like about 1-2%. I think those are likely people who sign up for anything and forget why they signed. Not good as customers anyway.

    A small, targeted list is infinitely more valueable.

    I also lost a whole pile of subscribers when I changed over to Aweber. Not their fault, but the process was lost on a bunch of people.

    You need to have an incentive for confirming. If you are giving away an ebook or something, make sure they don't get it until they have confirmed.
    brent
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  • Profile picture of the author Boricua
    Originally Posted by Paul McQuillan View Post

    I just read a study about double opt-in. You are right about it hurting
    us-

    Is Confirmed Opt-in Crucifying Your E-mail Marketing Profits? | The Total Package
    Reminds me of one of Corey Rudl's "Accelerated Internet Wealth Series" DVDs. In one of the DVDs he explains how they, at the time, were using single opt-in. Huge problem was that the "Internet Marketing Center" were successfully getting elite results, but with lots of follow-up for getting white-listed at such years. Getting heavily connected with the right sources for white-listing an online biz is still beeping in my head after remember that specific talk in the DVD. If anyone still has DVD and cares to expand!

    I'm very sure it's in one of those DVDs that some fascinating points were illustrated with how-to's and the likes. Loved that course so much that I still have some memory. Your references too are right on target. Interesting enough, my rising question from a business-risk perspective keeps; how does someone gets white-listed once getting flagged with different service providers today in 09?

    It probably still worth getting wet, but how would I dry myself after fishing a little using the single opt-in method? Have not found any recent course with case studies on such subject. Interesting enough, it would surely be great seeing anyone with white-listed success upon getting flagged as spam before taking the plunge myself in a possible future. Corey's team did offer examples for solutions at those years in such video. DVDs, how useful they'd have been now. Damn, why did I sell that specific course!

    Never saw a clear path to that puzzle. Still asking myself such questions. Would be great seeing updates in 09 regarding this subject. Plus of course, finding a clear solution even if it would be hard to go around it. Solid points man.

    Great reference Paul Definitely got me thinking!
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    • Profile picture of the author Gary Huynh
      I didn't see any mention of the following scenario in previous replies so I'll just go ahead and point it out...

      I have some Aweber accounts which receive a lot of subscription requests via an email sent to the autoresponder email address. There are spam bots which spam your autoresponder email. These are counted as subscribers in your main "list stats" area. However, if you have double optin on your account, these subscribers will never confirm. This could skew with your stats because you're seeing inflated subscriber stats.

      If you're seeing 40 new subscribers a day shown in your "list stats" and only 4 are confirming, then it's possible that you only have 8 real human subscribers. This would put your confirm rate at 50%.

      These unconfirmed spam emails would then be unsubscribed automatically after several days. This also skews your unsubscribe stats.

      You can manually check how subscribers are getting on your list. Just click on the subscriber email after you perform a subscriber search.
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  • Profile picture of the author kkchoon
    I don't care about double opt-in, one of the reason I leave aweber is double opt-in!

    Really, single opt-in gets more subscriber, and more lead = more sales, period.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Here's what's potentially wrong w/ single opt in. If someone comes along and decides to put someone else's email address into your single opt in form, you are now sending solicitation emails to someone that didn't ask for them. This is a violation of the canned spam act.
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