STOP Profile Spamming! You Are Better Than That

15 years ago

Here, here!!!

Spamming is a Blackhat activity and Blackhat is always short term because the SEs are going to catch on and then they will change the algorithm to where those methods gain nothing and in some cases have actually gotten sites banned or rejected from the SEs all together. Blackhatters gain high page rank for the short term but they require way more work than Whitehat methodologies require because with Whitehat, you don't have to worry about them being punished down the road. Whitehat is far easier in the long run and yes, it might take a little while to build up to a good PR, it is far more profitable in the end because of the consistent PR over the long term.

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Agree and disagree. I am likewise a little uncomfortable with alot of comment backlinking I have seen. However if a site allows for the setup of a profile and for a website link to be posted I don't see it as automatically spam. Its a feature the profile has built in and was designed to be there. True it was designed to be used by people who are participants in that site but many of the sites do not specify the level of participation. Agree though that selling those links to thousands of people can and does lead to real spam.

Do agree with CmdrStidd as well. Its going to get red flagged if it is over done and no present "system" that sells backlinks balances it off with natural strategies.

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Hyaku_Man 15 years ago

It's already been overdone. Kickapps (the platform in the profile sites SENuke uses) has already announced it's going nofollow.

I have no problem with people sneaking in some links. But the problem are the idiots who make 10 new accounts everyday and spam every account with hundreds of links and rss feeds. They ruin it for the people who were trying to be inobtrusive and a bit more responsible. Anything tending slightly towards darker gray gets abused and becomes useless.
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- pbennett 15 years ago
  
  when I first started out, this was one of the first things that I was taught to do. I used social marker and went through and set up profiles everywhere. I really didn't understand what I was doing. I'm just now getting back to those sites and realizing that there was more to the site and now actually using it properly...
  
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  Hyaku_Man 15 years ago
  
  What's up with "bluefart"? Is another word (that includes a dark color and clothing item on your head) being censored?
  
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  sbp8610 15 years ago
  
  I understand what you are saying and I would have to agree with you.
  
  But I am currently using this exact method to get backlinks to my site, so how else would you suggest that I get the necessary backlinks to push it up the serps?
  
  Article marketing comes as a first thought.
  
  But what other ways are there that can get us some good backlinks without being spammy.
  
  Not trying to start an argument, just curious to know.
  
  -Scott
  
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  sbucciarel Banned 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Hyaku_Man
  
  What's up with "bluefart"? Is another word (that includes a dark color and clothing item on your head) being censored?
  
  lol ... exactly. If you try to say black * hat, it will end up blackhat.
  
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mmurtha 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

True it was designed to be used by people who are participants in that site but many of the sites do not specify the level of participation.

This is probably the most important comment in this thread!

The main problem is that many do not participate on the sites. This is why it is spamming.

I know I put it in the rules for my sites, and include how to post and how many good quality posts it will take for them to include links in their profiles. It doesn't help one bit.

Lol I'm one that don't mind people gaining a backlink as long as they give something in return - Content! And I don't mean 1 liners that don't apply to the threads they post in.

I think the OP has a good point about not messing up someone else's site just to get your stuff going better, without giving something back to that site.

When this type of backlinking first came out, people automatically knew to leave content on the sites/blogs. It was like an unwritten law. Now things have gone to the dogs much like a lot of things do when marketers get involved.

Paul Myers had an old saying that he used to mention in this forum quite often:

"Them that gives gets!"

Or something close to it.

Mary
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Allen Graves

15 years ago

Leave some good content or something! Don't just leave a backlink for me to have to spend my extremely sparse time finding and deleting from my server.

It drives me crazy! Just give a little before you take.

Thank you!

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jitterbug978 15 years ago

I only consider it spam if:

you dont contribute to that community...

more than 1-3 links.....

At least contribute!!!!!! even just a bit?

JUST DO IT...
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digitalproductreporter

15 years ago

@mike - I see where you are coming from but you probably haven't owned a site that was on one of those lists and got over 1400 spam profiles added to your site in 48 hours.

You wouldn't have any doubt it was spam.

You can rationalize any spam, c'mon, even some people could use the viagra links people drop in the url, but It's straight up spam in my book, and many here are promoting the nonsense and it's for sure bl@ch@t for the record

In fact, they are manually doing the exact definition of what wikiepida calls a spambot, they are just not wise enough to realize there is an easier way to do it:

Spambot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by digitalproductreporter

@mike - I see where you are coming from but you probably haven't owned a site that was on one of those lists and got over 1400 spam profiles added to your site in 48 hours.

You wouldn't have any doubt it was spam.

Don't have any doubt right now. I agreed that when it happens in the thousands its spam just don't agree that its automatically spam. Profiles that program that field in know very well what they are doing and if they want to change that - its really easy - nofollow.

You just can't paint a broad stroke and claim that its all spam. Lets take angela. You'll probably hate this but I am no subscriber but have come across her backlinks and she DOES try to add value to the site that she posts on. I've seen it. Now whats funny is seeing fifteen post comments after hers all with links. real spammy. So its how it is done not merely that it is done.

I think some sites feel that its part of the give and take. Quite a few forums give backlinks in signatures in return for participation so again it comes down to the level of participation.

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JMartin

15 years ago

Originally Posted by digitalproductreporter

@mike - I see where you are coming from but you probably haven't owned a site that was on one of those lists and got over 1400 spam profiles added to your site in 48 hours.

You wouldn't have any doubt it was spam.

The problem here is you are trying to push other people's actions on everyone else.

Logic being used: I use Facebook for friends/family and have some links for them there. Other people use it for spam. Therefore, I am a spammer.

It just doesn't work that way.

You can't look at the actions of a few and apply them to the many.

If I make a profile on NFL.com or something, add my site's link and contribute at all, I'm not a spammer. Maybe I link to my site about my favorite tailgating items. That's spam now? No.

Sure, you can argue that making 10 accounts today at a place would be wrong too (I don't btw). However, what if you contributed through all 10 of those account? Something more to think about.

However, I do agree that the biz is full of idiots who do nothing but misuse stuff, lie (like making up testimonials) and do nothing of use to anyone.

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SurviveUnemployment

15 years ago

Originally Posted by digitalproductreporter

@mike - I see where you are coming from but you probably haven't owned a site that was on one of those lists and got over 1400 spam profiles added to your site in 48 hours.

You wouldn't have any doubt it was spam.

You can rationalize any spam, c'mon, even some people could use the viagra links people drop in the url, but It's straight up spam in my book, and many here are promoting the nonsense and it's for sure bl@ch@t for the record

In fact, they are manually doing the exact definition of what wikiepida calls a spambot, they are just not wise enough to realize there is an easier way to do it:

Spambot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sounds like you need a better spam filter. I use Mollum, and I haven't had a "buy viagra" comment in over a year.

[update: just checked my spam stats]

Mollum has blocked 220 spam messages from just one of my sites today. I can see where it would be a pain in the butt to remove all that manually.

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belgirl

15 years ago

If you don't like links, then don't allow them in the profile, or put a no-follow in your robots.txt. Instead of being reactive--be proactive. And if you are considering "links" as spam, then everyone in this thread who has a "link" in their signature can be considered a spammer.

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Angela V. Edwards

15 years ago

Originally Posted by belgirl

If you don't like links, then don't allow them in the profile, or put a no-follow in your robots.txt. Instead of being reactive--be proactive. And if you are considering "links" as spam, then everyone in this thread who has a "link" in their signature can be considered a spammer.

Exactly. And if we're going to say that this sort of thing is wrong, then so is Social Bookmarking our own products. After all if we're self-promoting, then to some folks, we're "spamming". And Social Bookmarking your own stuff is self promotion, no two ways about it. And MILLIONS of people do it.

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Daniel Molano

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards

Exactly. And if we're going to say that this sort of thing is wrong, then so is Social Bookmarking our own products. After all if we're self-promoting, then to some folks, we're "spamming". And Social Bookmarking your own stuff is self promotion, no two ways about it. And MILLIONS of people do it.

I agree.

This entire argument falls under a false premise. It implies that most of the Internet Marketing activities are spam.

If you believe this to be true, then you must also believe the following to be spam:

Article Distribution.
Social Bookmarking.
RSS Distribution.
Video Distribution.
Press Release Distribution.
Blog Commenting.
Automated Blogs.
Forum Signatures.

And how about the fact that those profiles actually do indeed contribute to a site, they do get indexed and they provide massive amounts of traffic when done in a large scale.

You are basically submitting content to their site for free. You are contributing. Pretty much like you submit an article to multiple article directories.

Those sites that are actually deleting those profiles and considering them as spam are pretty much leaving money on the table.

Not to mention that the OPs point of view is entirely subjective, this whole thing is not about ethics, it's about moral perception.

I, for one, will not drop the rankings that provide me with literally hundreds of thousands of monthly unique laser targeted visitors, just because a couple of marketers believe it to be spam.

And before you say anything, check the traffic rankings of any of the sites Angela (or any other backlink providing service) distributes one month later. You will be amazed at the traffic spikes and organic traffic increase.

In fact, Angela, please include my PR4 blog on your next packet. It's do follow and I will allow backlinks within comments.

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel Molano

Those sites that are actually deleting those profiles and considering them as spam are pretty much leaving money on the table...........And before you say anything, check the traffic rankings of any of the sites Angela (or any other backlink providing service) distributes one month later. You will be amazed at the traffic spikes and organic traffic increase.

I am with you but lets not go to the other extreme. You'll just give the other side fuel to burn. If sites remove the profiles they are not leaving money on the table. They've made a business decision that has merit. Thousands of marketers running to a site to leave a link in many cases isn't traffic that converts. If you are talking about ad revenue thats a quick blip and not going to do your long term advertisers any good. Most its going to do is increase impressions not click throughs.

In the end its stretching to claim that you programmed a feature into a site (specifically for a link to be left), didn't lock it down in the design the way you claim to have wanted it and then complain that its automatically spam. However theres no reason not to respect someone's property and be responsible in adding some thing to the community you are putting a link on.

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Daniel Molano

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

I am with you but lets not go to the other extreme. You'll just give the other side fuel to burn. If sites remove the profiles they are not leaving money on the table. They've made a business decision that has merit. Thousands of marketers running to a site to leave a link in many cases isn't traffic that converts. If you are talking about ad revenue thats a quick blip and not going to do your long term advertisers any good. Most its going to do is increase impressions not click throughs.

In the end its stretching to claim that you programmed a feature into a site (specifically for a link to be left), didn't lock it down in the design the way you claim to have wanted it and then complain that its automatically spam. However theres no reason not to respect someone's property and be responsible in adding some thing to the community you are putting a link on.

Mike,

I'm not talking about the traffic generated by the people leaving backlinks.

I'm talking about the organic search engine traffic caused by those new profiles. That traffic skyrockets advertisement revenue (mainly Adsense).

They are, after all, new pages of content. The smart thing to do is slap Adsense on them, not delete them altogether.

Go to Quantcast, Compete, Alexa etc... One month after Angela, Paul or any of them has sent out the backlinks for specific sites.

The search engine traffic will have increased tremendously.

- Dan

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Mike Anthony 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel Molano

The search engine traffic will have increased tremendously.

- Dan

Dan you are going to need to educate me on what you mean by search engine traffic (I'm always open to learning). Normally people using that term are referring to traffic derived from search results. Typically posting a link on a profile page isn't going to come up in serps for any niche. Now should the page provide room for real content thats another matter but most of the detractors don't have much problem with that.

Now if you are talking about blog commenting exclusively then I get the point.
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nmh

15 years ago

I think my site also got on one of these lists. The huge problem is that I don't even allow for links in profiles but the idiots started putting their links in the comments section. Now I moderate each and every membership now. I check the email and check the name. If they come up on spam checker or there is no trace of them then they get declined and I tell them why. I also decline if they are not on a known site and they put a fake photo. I hate this link spam especially when in my case I have a technology site and they want to post for viagara, health aids etc. Digging and bookmarking a good article or posting is one thing but good grief.

I think a rank would be much more solid if it is relevant to the site's content and you can contribute something the readers would be interedted in. Viewers will want to know more. This link spam and just giving people lists I am learning is just wrong. I'd much rather contribute relavant content before blasting them with a bunch of crapola!! Eventually the sites end up junk sites no one wants to go to.

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thmgoodw

15 years ago

Originally Posted by nmh

I think a rank would be much more solid if it is relevant to the site's content and you can contribute something the readers would be interedted in. Viewers will want to know more. This link spam and just giving people lists I am learning is just wrong. I'd much rather contribute relavant content before blasting them with a bunch of crapola!! Eventually the sites end up junk sites no one wants to go to.

Again, this thread deals with links in profiles, not about links posted in comments in forums. The point of the profile links is *not* to get people from the site where the profile is on to click through to the linked site. Whether or not your site's content is relevant is irrelevant for our purposes. The point is to get the backlink.

I fully understand that certain folks on here disagree with this practice, and on that point as others have said there will never be in agreement.

On the other hand, it would be nice if others would understand what is being discussed here.

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Angela V. Edwards

15 years ago

Originally Posted by thmgoodw

Again, this thread deals with links in profiles, not about links posted in comments in forums. The point of the profile links is *not* to get people from the site where the profile is on to click through to the linked site. Whether or not your site's content is relevant is irrelevant for our purposes. The point is to get the backlink.

I fully understand that certain folks on here disagree with this practice, and on that point as others have said there will never be in agreement.

On the other hand, it would be nice if others would understand what is being discussed here.

Exactly. And the reason the packets contain only these types of links anyway is simply because of the abuse of the other types of sites. I would have loved to have everyone "add value" to all the sites (which is what I always try to do). Unfortunately, that was not the case, so I had to stop including other types of sites in the packets.

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discrat

15 years ago

You know what thats funny because I cant Stand SIGNATURE SPAMMING !! It annoys the crap out me !!

And I see a little bit of hypocrisy from some of the people here crying about Profile Links. I dont know, hypocrisy just annoys the crap out of me too.

The OP talks a good game but look at his Signature. Comon now , that is a bit overdoing it !! To be honest that would make me feel more dirtier than any profile linking. I am just keping it real hence the fact that I havent had anything in my Signature for about 8 months now. The Warrior Forum and its incredible source of info. and the dialogue from awesome experts is enough for me . I am already getting so much out of the Warrior Forum for just that alone , so I dont have a need to continual Spam th Forums with Signature Spamming.

I guess if we want to get down to it for that matter leaving any backlink is SPAM. Technically it is whether you want to admit it or not. When Google invented their Algos and wanted to give high rankings to Webmasters they based it on the popularity of that Webmasters Site....which was determined when his peers naturally linked to him because of his qualitiy content.
Not supposed to be based when someone put links on a Profile or in their Signatures !!

Sure you can make a buck with Signature Spamming but in all honestly I wished Allen would get rid of it altogether because it would make this place a much more productive and enjoyable one !! Its already great, but it would just be icing on the cake !!

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Nothing to see here including a Sig so just move on :)

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Peter Adamson

15 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

You know what thats funny because I cant Stand SIGNATURE SPAMMING !! It annoys the crap out me !!

[snip]

I guess if we want to get down to it for that matter leaving any backlink is SPAM.

Few people would agree with your definition of spam. Spam is the same thing many many times, aimed indiscriminately at all targets without consideration of relevancy and with no added value.

So:
- Comment spam is posting the same comment everywhere with no regard to the blog content.
- Profile spam is creating profiles on sites about heavy metal to promote carribean cruises and then not participating.
- Signature spam is creating unwarranted numbers of posts without regard to the OP's subject just to get your signature out.

Just having a signature that promotes your product is not spam. It is only spam if you post indiscriminately without adding value. If you take hours writing a thought-provoking or informative article to create valuable content for this forum you have earned the opportunity to get your product advertised in your sig. If you run around typing "Great post!" you have not earned it. There is a big difference which seems to have escaped your notice.

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sf_Imtiaz

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Peter Adamson

Few people would agree with your definition of spam. Spam is the same thing many many times, aimed indiscriminately at all targets without consideration of relevancy and with no added value.

So:
- Comment spam is posting the same comment everywhere with no regard to the blog content.
- Profile spam is creating profiles on sites about heavy metal to promote carribean cruises and then not participating.
- Signature spam is creating unwarranted numbers of posts without regard to the OP's subject just to get your signature out.

Just having a signature that promotes your product is not spam. It is only spam if you post indiscriminately without adding value. If you take hours writing a thought-provoking or informative article to create valuable content for this forum you have earned the opportunity to get your product advertised in your sig. If you run around typing "Great post!" you have not earned it. There is a big difference which seems to have escaped your notice.

Are you saying that if I hire a couple of people to "genuinely contribute" in forums and blog post and leave leave links to my website their so I can manipulate my site's ranking in SERPs, it would not be considered as spam.

I guess you are missing a link there, the reason why all kind of link building is deemed as spam is because the end user who is searching for genuine information has to suffer because the ranking has been manipulated by people for whom it is business.

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digitalproductreporter

15 years ago

If you don't like links, then don't allow them in the profile

c'mon now, this is not well thought out logic. example: if you don't like dogs pooping in your yard, don't have a yard. Don't blame the victim.

And if you are considering "links" as spam, then everyone in this thread who has a "link" in their signature can be considered a spammer.

I couldn't care less if they dofollow the signature links here. They aren't for link juice.

I use my signature because I'm an active participant of this forum and it's an opportunity for other members of the forum to learn more about me.

Once again, spam is spam. You can rationalize it all you want, but that doesn't change it.

so how else would you suggest that I get the necessary backlinks to push it up the serps?

create something worth talking about in your niche and people will talk about it (link to it), no magic keyword formula or spamming needed

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Jeremy Kelsall

15 years ago

Yes, everyone please stop building backlinks...

Don't worry - The links will find you.

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Kael41 15 years ago

LMAO, you kill me sometimes..i needed that laugh

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Yes, everyone please stop building backlinks...

Don't worry - The links will find you.
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zerofill

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Yes, everyone please stop building backlinks...

Don't worry - The links will find you.

Just don't tell anyone about how good the Cookies and Milk is as link bait please!!!!!

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Jeremy Kelsall

15 years ago

Can we be real for a minute?

Firstly, I agree with much of what the OP said. I think the forum and site owners get a pretty raw deal when their site info is released to thousands of people at once...

Seriously, that man/woman is just trying to run a site one minute - The next minute they have to spend hours deleting profiles, making changes to their site to protect themselves, and just being inconvenienced in general...It sucks.

But...

The majority of people that are saying "create something good and the links will find you" are in one of 2 situations if you ask me:

1. They are only selling IM products where they can rely on JV partners, forums, and other social type sites to send them traffic.

2. They are broke.

I'm not saying that they ALL fall into one of those categories. I'm saying a majority of the time they probably do.

He who is the most aggressive wins.

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Steven Fullman

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Can we be real for a minute?

Firstly, I agree with much of what the OP said. I think the forum and site owners get a pretty raw deal when their site info is released to thousands of people at once...

Seriously, that man/woman is just trying to run a site one minute - The next minute they have to spend hours deleting profiles, making changes to their site to protect themselves, and just being inconvenienced in general...It sucks.

But...

The majority of people that are saying "create something good and the links will find you" are in one of 2 situations if you ask me:

1. They are only selling IM products where they can rely on JV partners, forums, and other social type sites to send them traffic.

2. They are broke.

I'm not saying that they ALL fall into one of those categories. I'm saying a majority of the time they probably do.

He who is the most aggressive wins.

Wins what, exactly?

If you think spamming forums makes you a "winner", Jeremy...

Fine.

If you think encouraging people less able than you to to do the same thing...and suffer the consequences..is OK...

Fine.

Controversy sells, right?

Steve

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Jeremy Kelsall 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

Wins what, exactly?

Being aggressive in just about anything in life wins out over being passive. I would be interested to see if anyone can show evidence to the contrary...

Because I can point to a whole lot of successful people in Internet Marketing and out that say they are where they are today because they were aggressive and just did it.

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

If you think spamming forums makes you a "winner", Jeremy...

Fine.

Steve, no disrespect, but maybe you and Garrie are reading a different thread - Or maybe I posted in the wrong one? Because when it comes to the subject at hand, the only thing that I've said is that profile linking in the context that the OP was talking about it - WAS WRONG.

I then went on to share my feelings about "build it and they will come" being BS in many cases...

I'm not sure exactly what you guys are talking about..

Can someone clue me in?

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

If you think encouraging people less able than you to to do the same thing...and suffer the consequences..is OK...

Fine.

Again, I never said any such thing in this thread.

Have I in the past been an advocate for aggressive link building? YES

Was I an advocate in this thread? NO

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

Controversy sells, right?

Again, I'm going to have to say " I have no idea what you are talking about"

I've said nothing controversial in this thread.

Lets recap:

I said 1000's of people pounding someones website in a short period of time for the sake of a backlink was wrong.

I said that most people that just throw a site up and expect people to flock to them will fail.

I stand by both of those statements.

Jeremy
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- adamv 15 years ago
  
  These kinds of threads come up all the time and they're always the same.
  
  You'll occasionally get a few responses from the people that believe anything goes, just get as many links as possible any way you can. You'll get a number of responses from the people that think any link is spam and any type of promotion is some how evil. And, you'll get a lot of responses from people who fall somewhere in the middle.
  
  The problem is that the people in the any link is spam camp won't let anyone else say anything about link building or promoting their business without latching on to their ass and becoming a major pain in it.
  
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CDarklock 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

The majority of people that are saying "create something good and the links will find you" are

...missing the first half of the equation.

90% of things suck. It doesn't matter what things they are. Plenty of people are out there trying to create something good, and failing. So they don't get the backlinks, because they created something that sucks.

Your rate of success with building things that matter will ALWAYS be lower than your rate of success with brute force. Any idiot can blunder around the net and leave links everywhere like rat droppings, and other idiots will click on the links and give them traffic. Even a blind dog finds a bone sometimes, and the more he digs, the more bones there will be.

But he'd find even more bones if he wasn't blind.

Sure, you can play the numbers game, and you'll eventually succeed. You'll get the numbers, and the law of averages will kick in, and you'll make money.

But that's not the only way to play. You can also play the incremental improvement game. That's the game where every site you build, every product you release, is just a little bit better than the last one. Eventually, you build something good - and you keep building things that are good, until you build something great.

Playing the numbers game will never build anything great. It's just mediocrity piled upon mediocrity. And it can still succeed... quite well... but it's not the same thing.

And when you come right down to it, nobody's only playing one game anyway. Not in its pure form. We're all playing some sort of combined game, where we're making incremental improvements and piling more of the same on our existing efforts.
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discrat

15 years ago

Originally Posted by digitalproductreporter

I use my signature because I'm an active participant of this forum and it's an opportunity for other members of the forum to learn more about me.

PLEEEEEZE, this quote is laughable. I am still chuckling !!!

So people can learn more about me and so I can SALE my $29 to more people. lol

And so people CANT learn more about you without you Spamming stuff in your Signature ??
Talk about logic well whats the logic in that ?? Thats hogwash !!

I luv it. Face it , you can gift wrap it up in a million different ways but when you come down to it SPAM is SPAM !!

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discrat

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Razer Rage

I think the same could be said of this quote, not least because of the grammar error.

discrat, you are being contentious. You used to have a point, but it's been lost now. DPR is not spamming anyone by including a few links in his signature.

People sell things. That's how they make money. GET OVER IT.

UHMMM........Those Misspellings were intended. Funny, how peeps bring up trivial Issues when their own Platforms may be weak !!

RR, the fact is SPAM is when people sell things in an unsolicited manner. Technicality, that is what the OP is doing.

Listen, I could really NOT care less as I stated in my first post. The thing that gets me is the OP comes in here all adament and ballyhooing about how horrible Profile Linking is and how it is just Spamming and how terrible that is etc..etc..

But then in his own Signature he is blatanly putting a Price Tag on a Product trying to sell it to people here in the Forums and SPAMMING his own dang self.

Thats cool whatever floats your boat but dont come in here all high and mighty talking about how bad something is when you WREAK of hypocrisy doing it your own self and in an OBVIOUS way !!

Otherwise people will call you out on it !!

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belgirl

15 years ago

It's very well thought out logic. Its called being proactive. If you have a forum, then you should have enough knowledge in place to put in safeguards that don't allow for links. If you don't do it, then don't whine and complain when someone spams your site. I didn't say "get rid of the forum." ie "don't have a yard." But to use your simple analogy: If I don't want dogs pooping my yard I put up safeguards ie. a fence or spray some type of repellent down to prevent dog pooping. Especially if I know its inevitable. Profile spamming has been around since Gore invented the internet. You know its going to happen, so not doing something about it to begin with doesn't allow for the "woe is me" mantra.

And so by your definition, "If you participate in a forum, then links in your sig or profile aren't spam. But if you don't participate, then they are spam." Hmmmm....sounds like rationalization to me. You are so right. "Spam is spam."

Originally Posted by digitalproductreporter

c'mon now, this is not well thought out logic. example: if you don't like dogs pooping in your yard, don't have a yard. Don't blame the victim.

I couldn't care less if they dofollow the signature links here. They aren't for link juice.

I use my signature because I'm an active participant of this forum and it's an opportunity for other members of the forum to learn more about me.

Once again, spam is spam. You can rationalize it all you want, but that doesn't change it.

create something worth talking about in your niche and people will talk about it (link to it), no magic keyword formula or spamming needed

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belgirl 15 years ago

hahahaha..ok that made me laugh..

Originally Posted by Razer Rage

Or, you could just shoot the dog/spammer, saves you a lot of time.
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DyLan Lee

15 years ago

Rather using your time to spam people sites, why not you use your time to write another ebook or engage people here? Why the hell you want to spam people sites?

I hate spammer so much. To be professional IM, you need to engage and give values, write good quality ebook to sell.

Especially twitter and facebook. Many IM misuse it...

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thmgoodw

15 years ago

I am glad there are lots of folks who have similar thinking to the OP. That just leaves more backlinking for the rest of us.

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Allen Graves

15 years ago

I don't think some of you realize the amount of resources it takes to combat spam. Maybe you have seen a few hundred spam links - but have you ever seen thousands a day for years?

It gets old.

Signature links are allowed and encouraged here. Otherwise we wouldn'thave the option to use them. But when it comes to profiles, they are meant for people who participate in a community, not for people to leave links and haul ass.

To me, it's cut and dry.

Allen

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Charles Washington

15 years ago

Arent we helping these forums? We are giving them hundreds of new members. They can then increase their advertising rates by showing a larger membership base.

Plus, some warriors are actually finding some of these forums to be interesting and joining in the community.

Face it, these forums are getting their site put in front of 1000-s of new people for free. So what if they have profiles with links on them?

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Allen Graves

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Charles Montgomery

Arent we helping these forums? We are giving them hundreds of new members. They can then increase their advertising rates by showing a larger membership base.

Plus, some warriors are actually finding some of these forums to be interesting and joining in the community.

Face it, these forums are getting their site put in front of 1000-s of new people for free. So what if they have profiles with links on them?

As the owner of a heavily spammed forum (or at least they try

) - I can confidently tell you that I have never seen a single "link-dropper" make a single post...ever. The ones that get through sometimes make a post, but it's a dog forum and the posts talk about leather jackets, or car accessories, or cialis. No thanks.

I have a few other forums that I am simply going to delete, (including a very good information filled article marketing forum) because I don't have the time to keep up with the male enhancement product of the week, porno posts and leather jacket information. Another case of a bunch of idiots spoiling it for everyone else.

Allen

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Allen Graves

I can confidently tell you that I have never seen a single "link-dropper" make a single post...ever. The ones that get through sometimes make a post, but it's a dog forum and the posts talk about leather jackets, or car accessories, or cialis. No thanks.

Yeah I've seen those. Frankly the ones I hate are the ones that fake interest - and most likely with automation.

Good Post. Really enjoyed it.

Visit unlimitedpoker.com

Its one thing to be stupid. Its another thing to think everyone else is.

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whateverpedia

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Charles Montgomery

Face it, these forums are getting their site put in front of 1000-s of new people for free. So what if they have profiles with links on them?

No they aren't. They are gettin 1,000's of accounts, not 1,000's of members.

Could be just one guy/gal creating ALL of those accounts.

Sounds like your trying to justify (to yourself not us) your spamming activities.

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Charles Washington

15 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

No they aren't. They are gettin 1,000's of accounts, not 1,000's of members.

Could be just one guy/gal creating ALL of those accounts.

Sounds like your trying to justify (to yourself not us) your spamming activities.

I was not justifying myself. I subscribe to one of those backlink packages, but I have yet to create ONE profile. I was giving the other side of the argument.

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timpears

15 years ago

I am just chuckling how some don't like the profile links and state that those that do will justify them any way they want but they are still SPAM. And then proceed to JUSTIFY their signature links.

If you don't like profile links, then don't use them and if you have a site, don't allow them. But don't while about those that have them and leave them. Unless it is your site that is hosting the links, then I believe that you have no place to have an opinion. It frankly is none of your business.

If a site allows it, and I leave my link, then the site owner has two choices, either delete it or leave it there. If they don't want to have to bother with deleting them, then don't allow them. If the site is not yours, then it is none of your business. There is way too many people that want to run the world and tell others what to do. I just want to be left alone to go about my business and not bother anyone.

Sorry, this thread set me off a little. I am going to go and compose myself now.

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discrat

15 years ago

Originally Posted by timpears

I am just chuckling how some don't like the profile links and state that those that do will justify them any way they want but they are still SPAM. And then proceed to JUSTIFY their signature links.

I feel you .This is exactly what set me off a little too.

Nuff said !!

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TheWealthSquad

15 years ago

I recently got one of the backlink WSOs that may be in discussion here. I have created a profile on a few of the sites. Many of them I didn't because I didn't want my site associated with them

Even though they were high PR, I didn't want a customer of mine to find my profile on that site.

The ones I have created I am going back and making relevant posts. I would prefer having a few links from high PR relevant sites than many high PR sites from non relevant sites. I know it works today but the algos change all the time.

Hi PR, Hi relevancy, Hi interaction = engaged and interested visitors
Hi PR , low relevancy, low interaction = higher SERPS (at least today it appears too)

Many of these places will catch on quickly. They wil nofollow (which only affects Google) or make it harder to get an account. Make people wait 48 hours and you would cut down on a lot of it. I have found spammers to be very impatient.

Don't allow links in your profile until they have interacted 10 times. Comments, posts, etc. Real people would participate others wouldn't.

I can see both sides of the game. As a site owner I want to increase my SERPS. As a participant in forums I want them to stay around (and spammers keep knocking them out). The forums/sites allow links and don't require participation. To me it is similar to the bulletin board at college (You can tell how old I am huh? ) Lots of junk got posted but the rules allowed it.

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JMartin 15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheWealthSquad

Don't allow links in your profile until they have interacted 10 times. Comments, posts, etc. Real people would participate others wouldn't.

I like those types of places. The only downside is you get retards who just post stuff like "great post" or "I learned a lot from your post."

But yeah, I've got no problem with having to interact with a community in exchange for linkage.

And if what you want to draw attention to is somehow related, interacting is a plus.
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Gail Sober

15 years ago

It doesn't have to be a drop links and run thing. If you just do that, you're missing out on half the action.

Using a service like Forum Discussion Search with BoardTracker.com (no connection to me), it really isn't that hard to actually contribute to multiple forums as well as getting much more mileage from your signatures to boot instead of just your profile links.

Ever noticed how you might mention someones name, product or area of interest and they magically appear?

Forum owners get contributing members, you get profile links, signature links and get to build credibility.

Everybody wins.

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mikeong88

Banned 15 years ago

[DELETED]

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discrat

15 years ago

Originally Posted by mikeong88

It is so easy to deal with those profile spammers...

A simple coding like : if no activity within certain days , DELETE ! Here all spammers gone..

Personally there is nothing wrong with inserting links in the profile pages as long it is private.

Whats the URL box for in the first place ???

It's those BLOG SPAMMERs that get my nerves up. Blog are the livelihood for those sites and your viagra links arent going to be pretty isnt it..

Yeah that raises a good point. The Profile Links are Private for the most part anyway.

I know when I first got Angelas Packet the first month was mostly Blog Commenting. I definitely read the Blog Article and then wrote something that was sensible, and contributory and related to the Blog Post. An then I dropped my Link.

Its the people that say 'nice post' thats it and then drop Links are the ones I have problems with !!
Just dont do it , PERIOD !!

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sf_Imtiaz

15 years ago

@OP

Seriously? Well, how do you explain a backlink to your site affiliatemarketer[dot]info from the comment box of a blog called andybeard[dot]eu by a person named "affiliate marketer", I am assuming here that you were not named "affiliate marketer" and I apologize in advance if my assumption is wrong. I am not posting the link here because bashing is not what I want to achieve here but you gotta weigh it before you say it.

Now I am assuming that OP is not talking about comment spamming (no one likes to receive a comment like "nice post, thank you" from a person named "buy viagra") but just about creating profiles on website and using it for your links. Call it whatever you like but any kind of link to your site that has not been placed from the owner of the website based on the quality of your content is a spam link.

Google has built it's search algorithm in a way that provide opportunity and forces people to build backlinks. The companies with better budgets and good reputation do this in a different way and call it "link baiting" which spoils the system in the same way only with a cover.

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discrat

15 years ago

Originally Posted by scarfeet

@OP

Seriously? Well, how do you explain a backlink to your site affiliatemarketer[dot]info from the comment box of a blog called andybeard[dot]eu by a person named "affiliate marketer", I am assuming here that you were not named "affiliate marketer" and I apologize in advance if my assumption is wrong. I am not posting the link here because bashing is not what I want to achieve here but you gotta weigh it before you say it.

Google has built it's search algorithm in a way that provide opportunity and forces people to build backlinks. The companies with better budgets and good reputation do this in a different way and call it "link baiting" which spoils the system in the same way only with a cover.

Yeah, I think the OP had already dug himself a deep enough of a hole. No need to start digging up incriminating evidence about him on the Internet !!

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digitalproductreporter

15 years ago

@OP

Seriously? Well, how do you explain a backlink to your site affiliatemarketer[dot]info from the comment box of a blog called andybeard[dot]eu by a person named "affiliate marketer"

Quit being silly:

1. I've been a reader of that blog for over 3 years, andy knows me.

2. I was genuinely participating in his site.

3. I link to him regularly from my site and send him traffic.

@all - great conversation

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discrat

15 years ago

Originally Posted by digitalproductreporter

Quit being silly:

1. I've been a reader of that blog for over 3 years, andy knows me.

2. I was genuinely participating in his site.

3. I link to him regularly from my site and send him traffic.

@all - great conversation

I think you just totally, totally miss the point of what many of us are trying to say. This point being is when you come in a Public Forum like this and start swinging your 'Private Part' around saying
"this is unacceptable and that is unaccepatable and you need to raise your standards, blah, blah, blah" .....well then you better have ALL your ends covered.
Just ask some of US Senators about this and about the debacle many of them are in !!

The fact of the matter is you talk the talk but dont totally walk the walk and now people are calling you on it. SPAM is SPAM whether you know the The Owner of a Website or not and whether you blatanly sell something in your Signature or not. Its SPAM. Its kind of like being a little pregnant.

It wouldnt have been so bad if the tone of your original post werent so ' high and mighty Iam squeaky clean ' !! The fact is your not.

You are better than that !!

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sf_Imtiaz

15 years ago

Originally Posted by digitalproductreporter

Quit being silly:

1. I've been a reader of that blog for over 3 years, andy knows me.

2. I was genuinely participating in his site.

3. I link to him regularly from my site and send him traffic.

@all - great conversation

1. Why did you have to use the name "affiliate marketer" in your comment when you were "genuinely participating"

2. It was just one example that I mentioned your site has like several hundred if not thousand links from such blog comments.

3. Leaving comments with links and anchor title is far worse than creating a profile page, after all profile page is your personal page and if the site allows you to place your website's link in your profile then we shouldn't have a problem.

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Joshua.E1 15 years ago

They just want to get tons of comments in their comment box, which I find it so spammy and un-natural for me.

The moment I saw the comments there, stating very little content or sharing on the particular subject, it just looks so spammy.

I am wondering what will happen to their targeted traffic when the searchers see the spammy comments, they will think that this site has been violated, and the site owner allows this to happen.
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sunny_popali

15 years ago

Originally Posted by scarfeet

1. Why did you have to use the name "affiliate marketer" in your comment when you were "genuinely participating"

2. It was just one example that I mentioned your site has like several hundred if not thousand links from such blog comments.

3. Leaving comments with links and anchor title is far worse than creating a profile page, after all profile page is your personal page and if the site allows you to place your website's link in your profile then we shouldn't have a problem.

Yeah that was most important reply, when you comment on blog it depends on blog owner to approve or deny comment, tell me frankly how much you intend to comment on blog that have No-follow tag, 8 out of 10 times you will close your window. And how many times you commented on blog without anchor tag ?

But in profile page, it is associated with user account , user is the owner for it & he deserves to mess himself, be a spammer (not actually) if he remain meaningful not Viagra man of course. or be a good contributer, I always believe if someone is building profile links through web 2.0 sites he should customize it properly. Add proper bio related to link, add some pics to be more personal & look at least one time contributor.

But all & all impressive discussion. If you are atleast one time loyal to web 2.0 site then your profile is not spam.

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digitalproductreporter

15 years ago

2. It was just one example that I mentioned your site has like several hundred if not thousand links from such blog comments.

I read over 250 affiliatemarketing blogs every day and comment on them, shoot me

. I just love this stuff.

There is no use in getting personal here so I'll say adieu

It's not what I think, it's what the world thinks, profile spamming is not nice and I'm sure this thread opened a few people's eyes so cool :

Spambot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Zeus66

15 years ago

I read over 250 affiliatemarketing blogs every day and comment on them

Really? Good lord, man, when do you sleep? I don't know you so I won't question this claim, but that's more than 10 blogs to read and comment on every hour of the day. You're a machine!

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sf_Imtiaz

15 years ago

@OP

Anyway, it's not of my concern what you do or don't do to build backlinks for your site. My point is that any kind of links that you built for your website whether paid, profile, comment links or whatever, they are all spam by google's definition because they manipulate the search results. But the reality is that google is responsible for inflicting the use of backlinks upon webmaster by making it such a important factor of SEO. You can build the best site on your niche and wait for other webmaster to link to you but that's never gonna happen no one wants to waste their precious "link juice" and subsequently your site will be sitting at the bottom of the SERPs.

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GarrieWilson

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

The majority of people that are saying "create something good and the links will find you" are in one of 2 situations if you ask me:

1. They are only selling IM products where they can rely on JV partners, forums, and other social type sites to send them traffic.

What?

The same methods work for "IM" and nonIM products. Articles, social marketing, guest blogging, JVs, everything.

You dont need to link spam to sell nonIM products.

2. They are broke.

What?

I'm not saying that they ALL fall into one of those categories. I'm saying a majority of the time they probably do.

Care to back that up?

He who is the most aggressive wins.

No. He who knows how to actually market wins.

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Jeremy Kelsall

15 years ago

Garrie,

I'm not really interested in arguing with anyone about it

So, if that is what you believe, cool

But, if you read real close...I never said anything about profile links...

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GarrieWilson

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

I'm not really interested in arguing with anyone about it

...

Well, I didnt know that making a rebuttal on what someone said is arguing. Thanks for correcting me. :rolleyes:

So, if that is what you believe, cool

It's not what I believe but know.

If you create a product for "nonIM" the links will find you without resorting to link spam. Sure, it takes longer but the links are better for the long term.

But, if you read real close...I never said anything about profile links

And the topic is....Oh yeah. profile links. Why would I or anyone think you was talking on topic.

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Jeremy Kelsall 15 years ago

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

:rolleyes:

It's not what I believe but know.

Do you have any evidence to back that up?
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- GarrieWilson 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall
  
  Do you have any evidence to back that up?
  
  Yes. The money I make in nonIM niches. All without profile/link spamming and no, I wont post the sites.
  
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  Jeremy Kelsall 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by GarrieWilson
  
  Yes. The money I make in nonIM niches. All without profile/link spamming and no, I wont post the sites.
  
  And my proof is the money that I make in nonIM niches by aggressively building backlinks.
  
  So, who is right?
  
  If you read the first response that I made in this thread you will see that I said the "profile spamming" that is being talked about isn't right...Maybe you can read that real quick and then apologize?
  
  The comment that you decided to quote was aimed at the people that said "build it and they will come" which is the perfect statement for all the "parrots" running around that just repeat what they "heard" or what they "read", but have never quite done it themselves.
  
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Jeremy Kelsall

15 years ago

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

Well, I didnt know that making a rebuttal on what someone said is arguing. Thanks for correcting me. :rolleyes:

No problem man, I'm here to help

It's not what I believe but know.

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

If you create a product for "nonIM" the links will find you without resorting to link spam. Sure, it takes longer but the links are better for the long term.

Luckily, everyone in this world is different. There are some people that want to see results in a few weeks rather than several months or years.

Building backlinks speeds up the process. Especially if you are a SEARCH ENGINE MARKETER. You know, those people that make money be advertising products by obtaining a good position in the search engines.

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

Why would I or anyone think you was talking on topic.

Why would I or anyone else think that you would be involved in a conversation without trying to be the smart a#% devils advocate?

Dig up the proof that more people are successful by letting other people find their sites and linking to it online rather than taking the bull by the horns and building their own links...I for one will be waiting.

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

The exact reason why I have always said post and be apart of the community. Create your profile, make friends, "Interact" with others, create meaningful groups and post good content on them, and etc ...

Many do not want to spend the time to be apart of the "community" ...

James

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SurviveUnemployment

15 years ago

Meh -- much ado about little.

The web is made of links. I find it annoying when people shout "SPAM!" every time somebody posts a link. The way I see it, if I'm participating in your community and generating highly valuable UGC for you, you'd damn well better be willing to give me my little backlink. Besides, if people are interested in what I have to say on your site, don't you think they'd be interested in what I have to say on my own site?

There is a line, of course. The "buy viagra" people are annoying, but even they have their place.

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Steven Fullman

15 years ago

Whatever

Y'know, I'm not sitting here "happy clapping" Garrie.

But I disagree...fundamentally...with your bully-boy "I don't give a crap who I piss off to get a sale" stance.

You say you feel sorry for folks..."just trying to run a site one minute - The next minute they have to spend hours deleting profiles, making changes to their site to protect themselves, and just being inconvenienced in general...It sucks."

...but the next minute you imply "screw you...you're a backlink" and stomp all over them.

Aggressive? Yeah.

Not many people warm too kindly to aggression. Assertiveness, yes. Self-confidence, yes. Aggression...no.

Steve

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Jeremy Kelsall

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

Whatever

Y'know, I'm not sitting here "happy clapping" Garrie.

But I disagree...fundamentally...with your bully-boy "I don't give a crap who I piss off to get a sale" stance.

You say you feel sorry for folks..."just trying to run a site one minute - The next minute they have to spend hours deleting profiles, making changes to their site to protect themselves, and just being inconvenienced in general...It sucks."

...but the next minute you imply "screw you...you're a backlink" and stomp all over them.

Aggressive? Yeah.

Not many people warm too kindly to aggression. Assertiveness, yes. Self-confidence, yes. Aggression...no.

Steve

Again, I never once said "screw you...you're a backlink". As a matter of fact, if you look at posts I've made on this forum, I have in MANY instances expressed my dislike for the kind of linking that the OP was talking about.

Hell, I even sent an email to my list about a month ago telling them to stop using these sorts of links.

I think you are taking the names of products too literally dude.

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Steven Fullman

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Again, I never once said "screw you...you're a backlink". As a matter of fact, if you look at posts I've made on this forum, I have in MANY instances expressed my dislike for the kind of linking that the OP was talking about.

I think you are taking the names of products too literally dude.

I'm not taking anything too literally. Dude.

I'm saying I disagree with you.

Have you got to "win" this one as well?

Steve

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Jeremy Kelsall

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

I'm not taking anything too literally. Dude.

I'm saying I disagree with you.

Have you got to "win" this one as well?

Steve

Which statement do you disagree with?

1. spamming these websites profiles with links is bad the way the Op described it.

or

2. People that are aggressive are successful.

It isn't about winning anything. It was you who jumped into a thread on the 2nd page of replies and started "disagreeing" with me when I said again - THAT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE SPAMMING THE SAME SITES PROFILES OVER AND OVER AGAIN IS WRONG.

I'm not entirely convinced that you even read my first response in this thread which leads me to wonder whether or not you were just "happy clappin'" Garrie.

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Steven Fullman

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Which statement do you disagree with?

1. spamming these websites profiles with links is bad the way the Op described it.

or

2. People that are aggressive are successful.

It isn't about winning anything. It was you who jumped into a thread on the 2nd page of replies and started "disagreeing" with me when I said again - THAT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE SPAMMING THE SAME SITES PROFILES OVER AND OVER AGAIN IS WRONG. .

The one's in bold, Jez.

And, by the way, in a FORUM like this, I can jump in and "disagree" with you whenever I feel like it

, thanks.

But I'd rather not, given this next sentence...

I'm not entirely convinced that you even read my first response in this thread which leads me to wonder whether or not you were just "happy clappin'" Garrie.

Read that one back to yourself in the style of Jessica Fletcher...

Please. It's priceless.

Let's not take ourselves TOO seriously, hey?

Steve

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John Romaine

15 years ago

Originally Posted by digitalproductreporter

...spamming is not a long term business plan

Absolutely.

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zerofill

15 years ago

Blah...I just do things...

Make money from doing things...

Sell some things...

...I miss all the arguments on here a lot cause I am doing other things that make money...

But I read through this one...

Now I am gonna go do some things that make money...again...

Everyone should go do some things...instead of arguing...

Just think of all the profiles you could have made while reading this thread....sheesh...

Now go do some things...

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Steven Fullman

15 years ago

Lol

Alright, already...

Originally Posted by zerofill

Blah...I just do things...

Make money from doing things...

Sell some things...

...I miss all the arguments on here a lot cause I am doing other things that make money...

But I read through this one...

Now I am gonna go do some things that make money...again...

Everyone should go do some things...instead of arguing...

Just think of all the profiles you could have made while reading this thread....sheesh...

Now go do some things...

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Jeremy Kelsall 15 years ago

Originally Posted by zerofill

Just think of all the profiles you could have made while reading this thread....sheesh...

LMAO
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Zeus66

15 years ago

I think my 'take away' message from this entire thread is that Don's a doer. He gets things done. He's not even here to see this because he's off being a man of action.

:p

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GarrieWilson

15 years ago

Dig up the proof that more people are successful by letting other people find their sites and linking to it online rather than taking the bull by the horns and building their own links...I for one will be waiting.

Did I say more? No. I didn't.

I just didn't agree with your statement that they are only in the IM niche or broke because they arent aggressive link spammers.

Even though you agreed with the OP "mainly," the context of the post I quoted from would lead others to think otherwise.

If my interpretation of your post is incorrect, I'll take a portion of the blame.

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acedalright

15 years ago

Trust me when I say that I know from a reliable source that search engine algorithms are moving rapidly towards unique word/link ratio dynamics.

This means profile page links will be almost valueless as they offer no unique content and the link is therefor not valued.

Article directory links are going to become more relevant not less and link directories will be all but pointless

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Mike Anthony 15 years ago

Originally Posted by acedalright

Trust me when I say that I know from a reliable source that search engine algorithms are moving rapidly towards unique word/link ratio dynamics.

I'd say we are already much closer to that than most realize except its not quite that simple. PR is important and link building from High PR sites the same but its being presently rated higher than it should be.
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Allen Graves

15 years ago

Originally Posted by acedalright

Trust me when I say that I know from a reliable source that search engine algorithms are moving rapidly towards unique word/link ratio dynamics.

This means profile page links will be almost valueless as they offer no unique content and the link is therefor not valued.

Article directory links are going to become more relevant not less and link directories will be all but pointless

You should start a new thread about this - interesting stuff!

Allen

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Kael41

15 years ago

Excuse if I take your statement with a grain of salt, so to speak, BUT if I had a dime every time I heard the statement "trust me when i say that I know from a reliable source...", i'd be far richer than I currently am. Unless you sit on the dev board and run a q/a team for google @ their campus to go over analytics for algorithmic research- I'm not going to "trust" you. I'll def listen to what you're saying though

If you are referring to the incorporation of LSI into backlink authority determinations- the search engines are already there.

Trust is built up, my friend, and not just given out.

Secondly, you followed that first assertion with the fact that article directory links are going to become more relevant without any substantiated proof. First you say that profile pages truly offer no substantive information so as to be relevant, but then the thousands of article directories which contain more dupe content than a sideshop in Taiwan selling illegal movies on dvd are going to hold some sort of value.

All I do know is that going forward, the best attack is a multi-front one. Spread your resources around and treat each link submission per platform as one more asset to add to your campaign.

Originally Posted by acedalright

Trust me when I say that I know from a reliable source that search engine algorithms are moving rapidly towards unique word/link ratio dynamics.

This means profile page links will be almost valueless as they offer no unique content and the link is therefor not valued.

Article directory links are going to become more relevant not less and link directories will be all but pointless

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mmurtha

15 years ago

So, is profiling spam a good thing or a bad thing guys???

JK!

Lol I haven't seen 3 gentlemen argue over absolutely nothing like you guys have here in a very long time. Glad to see you've stopped.

You know, Zero is right, go make some money already!

Btw, my business stopped short cause everybody quit buying my popcorn and cokes!

Hey acedalright,

Originally Posted by acedalright

Trust me when I say that I know from a reliable source that search engine algorithms are moving rapidly towards unique word/link ratio dynamics.

This means profile page links will be almost valueless as they offer no unique content and the link is therefor not valued.

Article directory links are going to become more relevant not less and link directories will be all but pointless

I totally agree with you. Matter of fact, directories have less and less value each year, and especially over the last 6 months.

Mary

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Alright lets put this in perspective. No need for the holier than thou and the mud slinging on either side.

Heres the truth on link building (somewhat tongue in cheek)

-

If you post on other sites back to yours you are spamming the site.

If you exchange links sorry you are not spamming the site you exchanged with but you ARE spamming Google.

If you buy links you are spamming again Google.
If you write articles on third party sites just to get a link back to your site you are again - spamming Google.

If you post signature links on Warriors when you claim that Warriors has given you so much information and learning as a reward for your participation then you shouldn't need to add advertising in your signature link as another reward so you are again - spamming

If you get your sales page on the first page of "how to make money online" You are spamming the searcher who wasn't looking for an ad but real information.

Google is a spammer. They encourage millions of content sites to put ads in the faces of their visitors crafted seductively to match the subject of the content as if they are relevant but they are really just ads.

Theres great content put out every day that no one will ever find without promotion so IM is about promotion.

He who is without spam throw the first stone.......

Now we can go back to arguing which ones are more spammier (word invention alert!).

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GarrieWilson

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

If you post on other sites back to yours you are spamming the site.

No. It depends on the site. If I post on an site directory, for example, it's not.

If you exchange links sorry you are not spamming the site you exchanged with but you ARE spamming Google.

If you buy links you are spamming again Google.
If you write articles on third party sites just to get a link back to your site you are again - spamming Google.

No. Google has the option to ignore it.

If you post signature links on Warriors when you claim that Warriors has given you so much information and learning as a reward for your participation then you shouldn't need to add advertising in your signature link as another reward so you are again - spamming

Again. No. Permission has been given.

If you get your sales page on the first page of "how to make money online" You are spamming the searcher who wasn't looking for an ad but real information.
Google is a spammer. They encourage millions of content sites to put ads in the faces of their visitors crafted seductively to match the subject of the content as if they are relevant but they are really just ads.

I do hope you arent serious.

Theres great content put out every day that no will ever find without promotion so IM is about promotion.

Yes. Promotion. Not spam.

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Mike Anthony 15 years ago

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

No. Google has the option to ignore it.

I missed that one. So thats your defense on that kind of spamming? Google can ignore if they choose? So on the many sites where backlinks have been left and the owner chooses to ignore them whats your beef?

Permission has been given for Warriors signature links true but if you've noticed permission has been given on many of those profile pages so again whats your beef?

I do declare.....nothing raises righteous indignation on the internet as spam. People don't get worked up even half as much about fraud as much as they do spam and the thing about it is with the right settings much of it goes away.
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Hyaku_Man 15 years ago

So, there are 3 positions:

1) Don't use profiles for backlinks, it's bad

2) Use profiles for responsible backlinking

3) This is the Wild West, do what you want

Cool. I choose 2. Back to work.
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A Bary

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Alright lets put this in perspective. No need for the holier than thou and the mud slinging on either side.

Heres the truth on link building (somewhat tongue in cheek)

-

If you post on other sites back to yours you are spamming the site.

If you exchange links sorry you are not spamming the site you exchanged with but you ARE spamming Google.

If you buy links you are spamming again Google.
If you write articles on third party sites just to get a link back to your site you are again - spamming Google.

If you post signature links on Warriors when you claim that Warriors has given you so much information and learning as a reward for your participation then you shouldn't need to add advertising in your signature link as another reward so you are again - spamming

If you get your sales page on the first page of "how to make money online" You are spamming the searcher who wasn't looking for an ad but real information.

Google is a spammer. They encourage millions of content sites to put ads in the faces of their visitors crafted seductively to match the subject of the content as if they are relevant but they are really just ads.

Theres great content put out every day that no one will ever find without promotion so IM is about promotion.

He who is without spam throw the first stone.......

Now we can go back to arguing which ones are more spammier (word invention alert!).

Thank you!

Finally someone shows up with some logic!

People...do you live in another ideal world rather than ours?

Why don't you return to the roots of the problem?

Do we put these silly standards Google follows to rank sites?
Why on earth Google gives value to backlinks in the first place:
"Well, a backlink from a relevant site to yours is a vote that your site is important"

grrr...the worst crap I ever came across...

The genius who put this standard didn't think for a moment about the biz ground facts..

And the same for those who are saying that links will come naturally if you put a good site...

g"me a break..!!

I'll ask those folks a question..
how many times you post on your site/blog a link to a competitor site because you find its content useful for them??

If you do this once, well, you shall find yourself another job, because you're dump, and send your traffic to your competitors and breaking your business..

Let's turn it the other side..

sites releveant to your niche means in most cases competitor sites, how many of these will link back to you even if you put pure gold on your site, and risk their businesses and hand you free profits??

In the real world, this will never happen...
this algorithm depends on a very old trend that no more exists, when webmasters were excited about linking to big authority sites to give themselves some reputation..

How many of you are linking back to authority site?

You only link back if there's something beneficial for you...i.e. an affiliate commission or a special deal for your prospects so you can add to their trust for you...

That's is...

Now, and with all these facts, how we can tolerate this?

When I sit for weeks , working hard to build a good website, to offer something of value for my visitors and make a profit. (I think nothing is wrong so far)..

Stay for weeks, months to see a raise in my SE, just to find my site struggling against dump sites, happened to be there for 10 years, and build backlinks with these controversial methods...
Well...shall I keep being a nice legitimate guy and lose my shirt ?

Sorry, I chose to make a living online, and I invested money, time and effort here, and I'll do what it takes to be successful..

Google and other SE put the rules of the game in the first place, and until they become reasonable and return back to a logical fair algorithm to rank sites, well, we shall play it in their rules..

Final thought, I know many will refuse my words as being in a try to take advantage of others' sites to make profits, and will argue that the owners are not guilty of anything to be harmed !

Will, can someone till me exactly what's the harm they suffer?

Well, I know there are spammers who just spend days building hundreds of profiles on the same site to manipulate it..but this is not the majority..

I use Angela's packages, and I sign up only once for the site, put 2 or 3 links on my profile, that's it..
And I think most of the users stick to this, because more than that takes a very long time and doesn't worth it..

Can any of these "winged" fellow marketers till me what the harm I caused to the site?
Wasn't it built in the first place to receive members and profiles?

What's the percentage of members really contribute to the site? very little, most of the members (even those without profile links) will never share in the site, and will stay browsers and passive members...

The point is,, the harm you're talking about here isn't that much, I don't pickpocket them or hijack their sites, it is a game that we are forced to its rules

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Relax Garrie - notice the part that says "tongue in cheek" but to play devils advocate I could argue with quite a bunch of those being spam and yeah I would be serious about the sales page if I wanted to be. Think some people aren't ticked off when they go on the internet to do some research and find that the results are leading to long old sales copy selling an informational product?

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GarrieWilson

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Relax Garrie - notice the part that says "tongue in cheek"

Yes I noticed it. Especially the part that says somewhat and the truth to link building.

but to play devils advocate I could argue with quite a bunch of those being spam

Just 'cause you argue it, wouldn't make it so.

and yeah I would be serious about the sales page if I wanted to be. Think some people aren't ticked off when they go on the internet to do some research and find that the results are leading to long old sales copy selling an informational product?

They should learn how to search.

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Mike Anthony 15 years ago

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

Just 'cause you argue it, wouldn't make it so.

Which is about the best comeback you've been able to muster. The directory thing was weak incidentally. Anyone who does SEO knows you can't depend on just one kind of backlinking. Buying backlinks and exchanging is a common practice.

At this point everyone so far has stated that profile backlinking should be done responsibly and that people should contribute to those sites. Just makes long term sense as well because it helps to keep the links in place. I really don't know what the continuing bickering is about except just for the bickering sake.
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koolmeg

15 years ago

I personally would say that anytime I leave a comment on a blog/site I am being truthful and honest I dont expect EVERY link to stay up but I am contributing to an interactive module which is what they are made for....
I would never leave a comment about buying viagra or anything like that though.

I think you should use your own common sense when it comes to leaving comments to whether it could be considered spam

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HeySal

15 years ago

Okay. I only read the first few replies to this thread and am actually a bit stunned by what I saw.
The idea about "using" other sites for self promotion isn't supposed to be, just go and post your own links all over town. When you post your profile to another site - do you think posting a link is giving you, or anyone else great value? Do we all remember that in marketing, VALUE, is the key.

When you post to another site, your right to a back link is supposed to be EARNED. AS well - you are supposed to use it to YOUR best advantage. If you think people are just clicking to your profile because it's there, you have a severely skewed ego.

The point is to also make contributions to that site - good valuable contributions that other readers will see, learn from, want more information about - and then go to your profile or click links in your signature. If you do all the work to find an appropriate site for your backlink - then fail to use it to its full advantage, you're just not thinking about the whole picture.

Another reason that you want to offer value on someone else's site when you post a profile or a backlink is a value to both yourself and the site owner. A site gets its rankings and popularity from sporting great information. The more great information there, the better that site does. The better that site does, the more valuable your own backlinks become.

Whenever you are deciding the REAL bottom line of your marketing methods - don't forget the human factor. It is humans that get to know you and will buy your product. If what you are doing isn't reaching them, you are missing something in the process.

As far as signatures in the forum - if it conforms to the rules - it is not "spamming" to put your links in your signature. That is YOUR payment for providing value to this forum, and if you ARE providing value, you deserve that space.

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patfl

15 years ago

Spam is well defined by laws and by the websites' TOS.

Everything else is just opinion...

Patrice

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

I will admit one thing, I am in no way going to read a great deal of useless points on this thread..

I will say this though - I posted my opinion and I would fully agree with Angela and Daniel both.

To the OP, if you do not like it then just get off-line and out of business.. Here goes a FACT that you will never change...

The entire internet is built up of nothing but "LINKS" posted on other sites. It does not matter if it is a ip address link, tl domain link, sub-domain link, affiliate link, or anything else... A link is a link and nothing more than a link - Without links many sites such as google that everyone seems to praise for some unkown reason would not even exist.

James

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AmyBrown

15 years ago

Would Allen consider it a benefit if thousands of WF profiles were created each day for the home page backlink? I'm curious if the WF has been included in any of the backlink packets and what the reception to that would be.

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Mike Anthony 15 years ago

Originally Posted by AmyBrown

I'm curious if the WF has been included in any of the backlink packets and what the reception to that would be.

I doubt it. I'm almost certain without even looking that somewhere on DP there is a list with this forum's name on it. I know when I go looking for links they have to be sites that aren't already loaded with sig links.
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Allen Graves

15 years ago

It seems as if the topic is deviating from the original thought.

It is from the perspective of a webmaster who is being bombarded with link "spam" and spending hours a day putting up walls and getting rid of it.

For instance, you open a corner store in your neighborhood and you spend hours a day taking stupid, poorly written signs and pornographic pictures off your front windows that were taped up there by people who didn't come in and purchase a thing.

If they buy something (participate in some way), fine - they can post a well-written, legitimate sign or ad.

You see, in my mind, there is a place for this. There are hundred of thousands of sites out there where you can post links back to your sites. Most of them, although running legitimate businesses, could care less.

But there are also legitimate business owners out there who are trying to keep everything organized and controlled on their domain. They have no choice but to open up profiles and personal pages because that is the nature of their business.

To have people take advantage of their time and hard work is ethically wrong.

That's just my opinion. Take it or leave it.

Instead of shotgun link building, has anyone considered giving the site a quick look to see if their backlink is welcomed or not?

Again, this is just a point of view. One that I must take because I am in the boat with those who need to open their doors to the public.

I get pissed every day because of the time spent dealing with spammers. And yes, I have many diversions in place. You are kidding yourself if you think typical spam blocking tactics are going to stop everyone.

As far as the packages for sale in the WSO forum...at least one of them does not bother reading the forum TOS's because my dog forum ended up in one of them and it specifically states in the TOS that profile spamming, defined as linking to your own sites in your profile without contributing to the forum first, is strictly prohibited.

I am still deleting profiles every single day.

I spent time placing that in the TOS - did it work? Obviously not, because the greed of the package seller overcame the moral standards of a respectable, legitimate business owner.

Can this ever be stopped? Probably not. But if people like the OP make statements like he made, then maybe...just maybe...someone will think twice before telling thousands of people to "spam" his site with a bunch of meaningless, non-informational and in some cases, distatsteful profiles and comments.

Allen Graves

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Allen Graves

As far as the packages for sale in the WSO forum...at least one of them does not bother reading the forum TOS's because my dog forum ended up in one of them and it specifically states in the TOS that profile spamming, defined as linking to your own sites in your profile without contributing to the forum first, is strictly prohibited.

I am still deleting profiles every single day.

I spent time placing that in the TOS - did it work? Obviously not, because the greed of the package seller overcame the moral standards of a respectable, legitimate business owner.

Can this ever be stopped? Probably not. But if people like the OP make statements like he made, then maybe...just maybe...someone will think twice before telling thousands of people to "spam" his site with a bunch of meaningless, non-informational and in some cases, distatsteful profiles and comments.

Allen Graves

Allen,
This is why you hire a programmer to code a mod for your forum that will block any and all links until said user reaches X amount of post. Those post once verified by admin / mod and approved to be contributing, then the profile it auto unlocked and links will appear.

James

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supreme

15 years ago

Does anyone buy from these spammers? As for me the quality of posts is what determines whether i can trust the products on your signature...

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thmgoodw 15 years ago

Aren't we talking about profiles and not signatures here?

Originally Posted by supreme

Does anyone buy from these spammers? As for me the quality of posts is what determines whether i can trust the products on your signature...
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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Unfortunately here is an exhibit A

Multimedia - First Look: NCCU commencement in Durham | newsobserver.com blogs

Someone thought they were being nice by posting a PR6 backlink in the SEO forums and this is what happened in less than 10 days.

I've defended the practice of posting links but sorry thats just spam.

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Jeremy Kelsall

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Unfortunately here is an exhibit A

Multimedia - First Look: NCCU commencement in Durham | newsobserver.com blogs

Someone thought they were being nice by posting a PR6 backlink in the SEO forums and this is what happened in less than 10 days.

I've defended the practice of posting links but sorry thats just spam.

Are you sure all those links aren't good for the site? lol

I'm all for backlinking, but it is spam...I build backlinks - Therefore, I am to some extent a spammer....

It is cleansing to just admit it instead of trying to justify it

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Angela V. Edwards

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Unfortunately here is an exhibit A

Multimedia - First Look: NCCU commencement in Durham | newsobserver.com blogs

Someone thought they were being nice by posting a PR6 backlink in the SEO forums and this is what happened in less than 10 days.

I've defended the practice of posting links but sorry thats just spam.

And that's EXACTLY why the links in the packets now are all "profile type" links that 'fly under the radar', so to speak.

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A Bary

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Unfortunately here is an exhibit A

Multimedia - First Look: NCCU commencement in Durham | newsobserver.com blogs

Someone thought they were being nice by posting a PR6 backlink in the SEO forums and this is what happened in less than 10 days.

I've defended the practice of posting links but sorry thats just spam.

Grrr...

I just feel I want to find everyone of these stupid idiots who posted such links and hit a nail in his head....

But again..this doesn't make the whole linking thing a crime, many others are linking in a smart, natural way rather than that..

I can't imagine which kind of brain these people have..
posting 10 unrelated links (their own links aren't related) to a single comment...

What a shame

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adamv

15 years ago

Originally Posted by goldmind123

Grrr...

I just feel I want to find everyone of these stupid idiots who posted such links and hit a nail in his head....

But again..this doesn't make the whole linking thing a crime, many others are linking in a smart, natural way rather than that..

I can't imagine which kind of brain these people have..
posting 10 unrelated links (their own links aren't related) to a single comment...

What a shame

I love it when people post a bunch of unrelated links in one place. It's easier for me to find all of their niches and pen names.

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Well my point is it doesn't have to be done like that but if this is what a small group of people seeing an offer on a forum can do I can only imagine what packages that are shared by thousands can do.

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Jeremy Kelsall

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Well my point is it doesn't have to be done like that but if this is what a small group of people seeing an offer on a forum can do I can only imagine what packages that are shared by thousands can do.

If you give a site like that to 500 people for example - 490 of them are going to be morons

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Matt Gannon

15 years ago

I read threw this entire thread and got a headache. So you want people to contribute on every backlink they get, say 1000 backlinks, you would have to be an active member at 1000 places... I don't know I think I would rather work on my business then chat all day.

If you think about it we have the search engines to blame, If they were looking for good content only and lots of it the world would be a better place, but since there hungry for just keywords, some relevancy, and lots of backlinks, people are in a race to the top and they don't care what they have to do to get there anymore.

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Andy1750

15 years ago

Hello everybody,

In my opinion there are handful of unscrupulous products on this forum seriously compromising things in the long term for the rest of us. There is no problem with adding links on sites if you contribute. Profile links and signature links on a forum on which you contribute - no problem. Blog commenting - blog owner can approve or disapprove your comments so no problem. Video submission on a site where you are not breaching terms and conditions - no problem. Sharing content via RSS - no problem, that's what it's there for. But profile linking in the way that it's promoted in some products is not a two way relationship and is SPAM. There is no other word for it. And, as the number of sites on these published lists increases, more and more sites will become no follow making it more difficult for the rest of us that adopt more white hat SEO strategies.

If done on a small scale then I guess it is less of a problem. However, products set up to target and potentially ruin the hard work of others (in return for a fee of course) are NOT COOL!

I have previously subscribed to one of these products and I feel dirty.

These silly back links are now all over the place. Google must be aware by now - anybody with just a vague interest in black hat SEO will be aware of this method. And therefore, I am pretty confident that it won't work for much longer (if it ever worked in the first place...don't get me started!).

I genuinely hope that any sites that have benefited from these methods in the short term end up 100 miles under in the sandbox. AND I hope that anybody profiting from selling these opportunities falls flat on their face very soon.

Just my thoughts,

Andy

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Angela V. Edwards

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Andy1750

These silly back links are now all over the place. Google must be aware by now - anybody with just a vague interest in black hat SEO will be aware of this method. And therefore, I am pretty confident that it won't work for much longer (if it ever worked in the first place...don't get me started!).

I genuinely hope that any sites that have benefited from these methods in the short term end up 100 miles under in the sandbox. AND I hope that anybody profiting from selling these opportunities falls flat on their face very soon.

Just my thoughts,

Andy

Google must NOT be aware of Social Bookmarking. That's been going strong for several years now (with no sign of demise on the horizon) and marketers have inundated Social Bookmarking to promote their OWN stuff. Google must be living under a rock. :p

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Andy1750

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards

Google must NOT be aware of Social Bookmarking. That's been going strong for several years now (with no sign of demise on the horizon) and marketers have inundated Social Bookmarking to promote their OWN stuff. Google must be living under a rock. :p

True - but if you read around I have seen many marketers questioning whether social bookmarking is as powerful as it once was. Matt Cutts has to be fair stated that a links a link and he's not aware of links from social bookmarking sites not being counted. However, the consensus amongst many is that the links are not particularly powerful anymore - with the exception of getting new pages indexed which is in my opinion still their primary strength.

And, even if Google doesn't act the market will correct itself, as is the way of the world. Social bookmarking sites have already begun to take action against spammers. Delicious for instance is nofollow. Digg also made some modifications recently to prevent spam - including adding no follow to profile links (although the bookmarks remain do follow for the time being). Won't be long before the other big boys follow suit - in my opinion.

My point is is that if you spam on an industrial scale (which is what is these back link packages are encouraging) the web will wise up (be it websites or search engines) and it will no longer work. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon. If you read a lot of comments about the Angela's back links package a lot of profiles are getting deleted and a lot of sites are switching to no follow. It's already happening...

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Andy

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Andy1750

Matt Cutts has to be fair stated that a links a link and he's not aware of links from social bookmarking sites not being counted.

Thats because Matt knows full well how overated PR backlinks are. I'm not saying they are not very important but people have blown this up over what they should. In SERPs lower PR sites beat higher PR sites quite often. I've seen it over and over. Google has their own relevancy juice mixed in with the link juice. They can tune and increase the relevancy juice anytime they want without touching link juice.

My point is is that if you spam on an industrial scale (which is what is these back link packages are encouraging) the web will wise up (be it websites or search engines) and it will no longer work. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon.

Fair point.

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Paul Myers

15 years ago

It's a constant source of great fun to me to watch people use a word with no concrete meaning in their mind when they write it.

"Spam." How many of you can define it in a way that has nothing to do with your personal preferences?

Belinda,

And so by your definition, "If you participate in a forum, then links in your sig or profile aren't spam. But if you don't participate, then they are spam." Hmmmm....sounds like rationalization to me. You are so right. "Spam is spam."

Ummm... Y'all're new 'round heah, aincha? (By "'round heah," I mean this Universe, by the way.)

There is a difference between earned privilege and abuse. And between exchange and theft.

Them that gives, gets. That's not rationalization, ma'am. It's a simple philosophy that's worked very well for a very long time among civilized people. Dismissing someone over their concerns that such civility is threatened by abusers says much more about your perspective than about the validity of the original concern.

James,

Right...like if anybody gets hurt by making profile site backlinks.

The same stupid, selfish argument that was made by people here in the early days, when talking about email spam. They denied that it could ever get bad enough to be a problem. Their primary mode of discussion was to dismiss or ridicule the people pointing out the near certainties waiting down the road.

It's amusing to me to see some of those same people complaining about the results of spam these days.

Charles,

Arent we helping these forums? We are giving them hundreds of new members. They can then increase their advertising rates by showing a larger membership base.

Ummmm.... No. You're not helping them. If you understood how this stuff works, you'd not have made such a suggestion.

discrat,

There is no logic whatsoever in your posts on this subject. It's 100% personal preference. That's fine, but stating that it's somehow more than that is just pointless. Communities and cultures operate on consensus definitions, not "Because I said so."

Jeremy,

Being aggressive in just about anything in life wins out over being passive.

Think about what you said there. How many assumptions are implied in that one sentence, within the context of the discussion? How many of them are just plain mistaken?

Amy,

Would Allen consider it a benefit if thousands of WF profiles were created each day for the home page backlink? I'm curious if the WF has been included in any of the backlink packets and what the reception to that would be.

[chuckle] The most sensible response in the thread so far. It pretty much covers the whole discussion, in one simple question.

Here's a question for you folks who think that profile links, without some sort of return contribution, are okay: Are you familiar with the term "parasite?"

Basically, it's an organism that lives off the energy created by another entity, and which contributes nothing useful in return.

Extending the analogy, sig files within the posts of contributing members fall into the more benign and positive biological description, "symbiosis." A very different thing than parasitism, yes?

Paul

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Jeremy Kelsall 15 years ago

Paul,

The context of my post was that of people saying "build it and they will come".

I guess I can see how it can be misconstrued though
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thmgoodw

15 years ago

Many would argue that humans by their very nature are much more parasitic than symbiotic. It is our nature to take more than we give and why we will eventually destroy the planet, but that's another story for another time.

Again, it is pretty simple. If you are a webmaster with a forum, and don't want folks to have profiles with links in such profiles without "contributing" (not quite sure what that actually means though, as folks can feign contributing for the purpose of getting a link), then there are lots of easy fixes, the easiest being requiring x number of posts before a profile becomes publicly available. Even better yet, put it in the darn terms and conditions. If you don't have it in your terms and conditions, stop your b*tchin.

Maybe we should try and figure out folks motive for posting too?

Lets say we have two IMers.

Person A: finds a forum called "Dog Training" and posts a couple of external links in his profile of a forum, but doesn't post anything in the forum.

Person B: finds a forum called "Dog Training" and posts a few (on-topic) replies in the forum, including a signature with a couple of links. he would never go to the forum, except to boost the visibility of his site and to get backlinks. That is, if he was not selling his new dog training e-book, he would never go to this forum.

I am not saying that Person A is a saint, but to me, Person B's activity is much more culpable than Person A's activity. Person B's forum activity is disingenuous. He is pretending to be interested in the forum and have some useful replies, and then oh yea, he just happens to have a couple of links to useful stuff. He wouldn't be there except for the fact that he is peddling his crap. Person A on the other hand just stays out of the way.

Again, give me Person A anytime.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Here's a question for you folks who think that profile links, without some sort of return contribution, are okay: Are you familiar with the term "parasite?"

Basically, it's an organism that lives off the energy created by another entity, and which contributes nothing useful in return.

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Andy1750

Hello everybody,
But profile linking in the way that it's promoted in some products is not a two way relationship and is SPAM. There is no other word for it. And, as the number of sites on these published lists increases, more and more sites will become no follow making it more difficult for the rest of us that adopt more white hat SEO strategies.

Profiles can be locked down very much like forums or blogs (incidentally not every blog can employ the man hours to have moderated comments. I just posted a link that I am sure a mod was not at work). I mean there are quite a few profiles that ask you for your home page, web address etc. Its a built in feature that encourages it.

So i'm going to agree with Angela on that point. If I go to a profile page and see a backlink its not as offensive as getting all those ads while reading comments on a story. If i'm viewing a profile of a person why should I be offended to find a site they are linked to?

Should people participate? Sure but I'm still not seeing the great evil being done by putting a backlink on a site that programmed that field for you to put it there in the first place. Putting 5-30 there? Overdoing it? Yes. Of course.

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JayXtreme

15 years ago

lmao...

I'm really trying to find something constructive to say here. Some of the responses in this thread were hilarious.. some were down right B.S. on the highest level, and others were so screwed I had to read them twice for clarity (relatively speaking!)..

In a world where people think a hat that is black is always illegal and sinister merely by definition, I should have expected nothing different...

It pays to be educated before you start commentating..

Peace

Jay

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JayXtreme

15 years ago

@ The OP

You are wrong.... most IMer's aren't actually better than profile spamming for backlinks

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Zeus66

15 years ago

This thread is giving me a headache. Is someone gonna post a long list of places we can post quick links that are dofollow, or what?

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Paul Myers

15 years ago

Again, it is pretty simple. If you are a webmaster with a forum, and don't want folks to have profiles with links in such profiles without "contributing" (not quite sure what that actually means though, as folks can feign contributing for the purpose of getting a link), then there are lots of easy fixes, the easiest being requiring x number of posts before a profile becomes publicly available. Even better yet, put it in the darn terms and conditions. If you don't have it in your terms and conditions, stop your b*tchin.

Yeah, bay-bee. Tell me who's to be trusted and who's not.

The essential point you're making is that anyone who doesn't create excessive security is responsible for the behavior of the destructive types who take advantage of any loophole.

I'm sure there are polite words to express the sentiment that evokes, but you're not showing any signs of being worth the effort.

Paul

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Matt Bard

15 years ago

thmgoodw,

Person B's forum activity is disingenuous. He is pretending to be interested in the forum and have some useful replies

Very difficult to know for certain what someone's intentions are other than observing their actions. If person B is contributing with useful replies as you say, then why worry about the intentions.

He wouldn't be there except for the fact that he is peddling his crap

One person's trash is another person's treasure. And, the right to peddle was earned through useful replies.

Person A on the other hand just stays out of the way.

Out of the way of what? If you have a forum you want people to contribute. Just because we are talking about digital space it still takes up space.

How many apps would you want draining your iPhone if they did absolutely nothing?

Matt

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discrat 15 years ago

Wow, I totally forgot about this Thread. It is still going strong. This evokes a lot of emotion. But honestly, I think it is a waste of time. NO matter what both Camps are going to continue doing what they are doing.

Those on Allen Graves side will howl at the Moon until the Sun comes up that this Profile Linking must stop !!

Angela's Army on the otherhand wil continue doing what they are doing if the Results continue to work as they view Profile Linking harmelss and benign to Internet Marketing !

Give it a rest people and go do some work, Geeeeesh !!
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Daniel Molano

15 years ago

I would love to see what BIG Mike and the rest of the Incansoft crew think about this debate. Which I still hold to be entirely subjective.

The entire Traffic Mania division of Incansoft's amazing software is about what some people here consider to be spam, others consider it automation, I like to call it efficiency maximization.

Anyway, is it not spam if you're doing it manually? Where is the line drawn? Who draws the line?

This is pretty much like the black-hat debate, some people consider hacking and illegal activities to be black-hat, others simply to build links. Which is precisely why the term itself was modified on the forum altogether.

We will never come to a conclusion on the subject, so we might as well move on from the topic entirely and get back to work.

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AmyBrown

15 years ago

Given the enormous benefits to the sites the packet creators are crazy not to charge them for inclusion.

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Jeremy Kelsall 15 years ago

Originally Posted by AmyBrown

Given the enormous benefits to the sites the packet creators are crazy not to charge them for inclusion.

lol - I am really diggin the sense of humor
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Daniel Molano

15 years ago

Originally Posted by AmyBrown

Given the enormous benefits to the sites the packet creators are crazy not to charge them for inclusion.

When my blog is included in next month's packet, I will definitely let you know by how much my advertisement revenue has increased.

I do agree however, that this sort of thing would be irrelevant to a Warrior Forum type business model.

But to anyone with Adsense it can be profitable, and I'm going to prove it.

Like someone stated before, you have to be proactive, not reactive.

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AmyBrown

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel Molano

When my blog is included in next month's packet, I will definitely let you know by how much my advertisement revenue has increased.

I do agree however, that this sort of thing would be irrelevant to a Warrior Forum type business model.

But to anyone with Adsense it can be profitable, and I'm going to prove it.

Like someone stated before, you have to be proactive, not reactive.

Why wait for the packet? Just post your site here, DP and BHW inviting people to post their links. In any case, I look forward to the case study.

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tferraro

15 years ago

Spam is no different then getting ads in the local newspaper or receiving junk in your postal mail. It has been around for years and has never gone away. We all do it one way or another.

I fully support Angela's and Paul's packets. They have showed nothing but positive results. No matter what Google does there will always be a loop hole. In my opinion the people that take advantage of the loop holes are the smarter ones that don't.

If Angela's techniques get shutdown by Google then Im sure another loop hole will be found with in 24 hours. And we will be back to debating this all over again.

Get over the scary word SPAM, and take advantage to what Google gives you.

Tony

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Much of this discussion is happening in the vacuum of what we think site owners want and by that I mean all of them not just the ones complaining in this thread. After going through my own package of backlinks (my own not angela's or anyone elses) I've discovered something that settles it for me.

I sampled about ten off my list (too large to go through all) and over half of them immediately upon signup presented prompts for new users to setup their profile BEFORE any participation. Now its true that my list may be more slanted toward more lenient sites since I have a certain method and criteria in finding and using them but I think its sufficient to indicate that not all sites frown on profile links being populated without a certain amount of participation first. These all had places for do follow links in the profile and some even notified if you had not filled them in.

If a site gives out their email address and says email me with your offers it is ridiculous to claim that those who email them are spamming. If a site indicates you are free to leave a link to your site, prompts you to do so and then complains when you do its equally ridiculous. So, as with most things in life its not an issue that can be answered with a blanket generalization. For some sites its spam for others it isn't.

Which doesn't mean you should take and not give back. You should participate but its not tied to a certain level of participation for all sites. Thats just a fact.

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jacktb

15 years ago

I see nothing wrong in placing links in the signature. It is a good way to promote products, services or advocacies.

Members will be encouraged to participate actively in the discussions in this forum because every time they post, other members can view whatever is his/her signature.

There are house rules and moderators that implement it to distinguish if a post really make sense or just out there to promote what's in the signature.

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yves 15 years ago

My sister was just complaining the other day because every time she tried to research something on the internet she had to rake through many pages to get something that wasn't a marketing type site.

Does anyone care that the creation of their "spammy" squidoos/blogs and sites are wasting my sister's precious time or others in the same postion?

We are all guilty of "spamming" the entire net so until someone comes onto this forum and moans about profile or any other type of so called spamming, that isn't an internet marketer then I'm not taking it seriously. I don't think anyone here has a leg to stand on in terms of being the superior ethical marketer.

I'm sure there will probably be the ususal brainy people coming on to pick holes in what I've said but as far as I can see none of us are totally altruistic marketers. :rolleyes:
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Marcel Hartmann

15 years ago

Any link-building you authorise could be considered grey-hat.

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James Lancaster

Banned 15 years ago

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p2y 15 years ago

LOL, this thread is rather interesting and it really makes me wish I bookmarked a thread I saw about a week ago on another forum. The thread was a 4 year, 200 page debate between 2 groups of people:

1. email spammers
2. people against email spam

And the email spammers made a lot of the same type arguments that are being made here:

It's just business, if you don't like it don't setup an email, you'll never stop commerce, everybody else does it, it's not against the law in my country, if people don't want spam they shouldn't give out their email, all you have to do is click delete etc..

I'm going to start digging around for that thread and post it here as soon as I find it, I don't have any opinion one way or the other, but I still find the parallels to be VERY interesting...
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