Do you curse in your products?

15 years ago

Hey Scott,

Personally, I would never use profanity on a
sales page but that's just me.

That said, I'm sure some use it to great profit!

Brian

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thenextlevel

15 years ago

I think if you use it in the right concept it can be okay. Never on a sales page though. Frank Kern does it, but all his videos are so laid back it doesn't seem out of place. For me personally I wouldn't do it.

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Lance K 15 years ago

Nope. I left 'em all on the golf course (where they belong).
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angela99 15 years ago

It depends on your market. Some markets are more "edgy" than others, and it's a way of getting attention which seems to work in those venues.

That said, most of the time it's not worth alienating a part of your audience.

Marketing is selling, so think about it. Would you buy from a salesperson who used profanity?

You'll only know when you test.

Big clue -- if it makes you uncomfortable, don't. :-)

Cheers

Angela
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dv8 15 years ago

Originally Posted by thenextlevel

I think if you use it in the right concept it can be okay.

I think that is the important part right there. That and what your audience is. Think of it this way, if you are a young 20 something year old male, cursing around your friends is acceptable. But talk that way in front of senior citizens and the reactions change.

Even still, cursing here or there in the right context, imo, is ok. Cursing too much, imo, is going overboard.
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rontoski 15 years ago

I know Frank does it, but he would be just as good, if not better, if he didn't. His cursing isn't what makes Frank great. He knows better, people from Macon, GA., shouldn't do that. Hey, I bought his stuff any way. There is so much ugly talk on TV, movies and in print that our guard is down. We accept things today that a few years ago we wouldn't. It's a manners thing. "Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners." 1 Corinthians 15:33 Some of the most creative people we know practice this. We just have to manage our own words and guard our own tongues.
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dorim

15 years ago

I don't like profanity and I don't use it in any of my sales pages or products.

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netcatapult 15 years ago

I can't believe Tony Robbins is cursing in his products now. I don't think you should curse but I guess it really depends on what your selling and your who your target audience is.
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mr2020

15 years ago

Sure,

I curse on my forums and in my ad copy too. Of course, I market to those who to some degree crave it. Most NLP is "stuck up prim and proper" so, I let it fly.

Twenty Twenty

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patJ

15 years ago

Ever heard of the rich jerk? Probably the best selling ebook of all time. Of course, the rich jerk doesn't exist, he's just a character, so it might be easier to act that way.

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JonathanBoettcher

15 years ago

If your sales character or persona tries hard to be against the grain or anti-establishment in some way, then you'll likely get away with it.

However personally I would never do that in a product of mine. I think you can get the point across that you're different without having to resort to swearing.

Side point - what about stand up comedy that basically relies on swearing to get a rise out of people? Seems like an easy way out to me... hard to find stand ups that are clean these days, because it takes more work. There will always be people out there that will appreciate you for it though, and the same with our products.

/2cents

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JohnMcCabe 15 years ago

I think it depends on your audience and your definition of cursing. If you're trying to be one of the guys in the locker room, let it fly. From what some of my female acquaintances tell me, you girls can be even worse.

Watch TV, especially the late night talk shows, and you'll see those guys get away with language that would have left you watching a test pattern 20 years ago - and they're pretty mild.

I have nothing against occasional, mild cursing in context. Getting frustrated and calling something 'dumb-assed' or letting a 'dammit' slip doesn't bother me. Make it too prevalent and I start wondering how many other words you might know if those are the only ones you use.

Jonathan, your point about standup comedy is a great illustration. The other night, my wife and I watched a Comedy Central show featuring Bob Saget (best known as the father on Full House and the schlub hosting America's Funniest Videos). If you took out the f-bombs and the pedophile jokes, his act was about ten minutes long. At first, the contrast to his normal on-air personas was a little amusing (Danny Tanner said that?) By minute 15 it was boring, and when it was over our reaction was 'there's an hour of our life we'll never get back'.

On the other hand, I can listen to routines by guys like Bob Newhart and Don Rickles and Bill Cosby and laugh so hard I ache - some of their subject matter may be PG, but the language was pure G.

Edit:

I want to clarify something. I don't care for deliberate profanity in salesletters or written products where the creator has time to come up with something else. In an unscripted video or telecall, I don't mind if something slips out.
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- Hesaidblissfully 15 years ago
  
  It depends on the persona you put out there.
  
  Some people just don't like profanity at all, from anyone. Then there are people who don't usually mind profanity, but are taken aback when it seems contrary to the speaker's persona (ie: the Bob Saget phenomenon mentioned above). That's probably also why hearing Tony Robbins curse was a bit jarring.
  
  On the other hand, I think if Samuel L. Jackson ever puts out a product on how to make money online, people will be disappointed if he DOESN'T curse.
  
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  Kay King 15 years ago
  
  I think there's a difference between what you say in a locker room or among friends and what you write on a sales page or in an email.
  
  Will you ever antagonize a customer because you DON'T use four letter words? Probably not.
  
  Will you antagonize some customers who see profanity as lack of respect or simply low class? Probably. My own first thought when I see it from a marketer is "written by a kid". That may not be the case - but it's my perception so for me it's true and I move on.
  
  What you might say to a friend or he might say to you isn't the same as spewing to people who don't know you except through the words you use.
  
  kay
  
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  JW888 15 years ago
  
  Slight cursing may be okay if used in the right context but I wouldn't recommend
  cursing in your products because it will turn off some people right away. You want
  to gain the respect of the reader, and cursing tends to have the opposite effect.
  
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TerrieS

15 years ago

Warning--Prude Alert! I personally think cursing is demeaning to both parties--the person who uses it and the person who hears or reads it. Most people who swear are very aware of the language they are using--it's not just a matter of the words just slipping out. That certainly holds true for someone writing sales copy. My husband likes to watch Hell's Kitchen--I can't believe the language they use. They just look like uneducated fools. Now, I do like Jason, but I wish he would clean up his mouth!

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JohnMcCabe

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TerrieS

Warning--Prude Alert! I personally think cursing is demeaning to both parties--the person who uses it and the person who hears or reads it. Most people who swear are very aware of the language they are using--it's not just a matter of the words just slipping out. That certainly holds true for someone writing sales copy. My husband likes to watch Hell's Kitchen--I can't believe the language they use. They just look like uneducated fools. Now, I do like Jason, but I wish he would clean up his mouth!

Terrie, my grandfather was the head chef for years in a fine dining restaurant in Minneapolis called Charlie's Cafe' Exceptionale. (It doesn't look like it from your avatar, but perhaps you might be old enough to remember it.) Uneducated was a common theme in the kitchen, but not fools. A kitchen in the middle of a busy dinner service is a high stress environment, even without a Gordon Ramsey vocabulary. What you see on Hell's Kitchen isn't that far from reality at times.

While my late grandfather could peel the paint from the walls in the kitchen, in the dining room he was a polished gentleman. Away from work, he was just Grandpa, who threw some of the best barbecues and holiday dinners I can remember.

It was all about matching his behavior to his environment.

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Pete Egeler

15 years ago

I wouldn't, and I'm really beginning to wonder what today's parents are teaching their kids!

The increasing wave of 4-letter laced language is really upsetting.

Frankly, I don't care for the garbage mouth crowd. I don't care WHAT your name is, there's no excuse for it.

Pete

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patJ

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Pete Egeler

I wouldn't, and I'm really beginning to wonder what today's parents are teaching their kids!

The increasing wave of 4-letter laced language is really upsetting.

Frankly, I don't care for the garbage mouth crowd. I don't care WHAT your name is, there's no excuse for it.

Pete

Being elitist and rude is way worse than using any kind of word in any kind of situation.

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Kevin Birch

15 years ago

When I get an sales email with any sort of profanity from any of the lists that I follow (no matter who it is) will get a BIG unsubscribe from me so I would be unlikely to buy from them.

There is absolutely no need for it, especially if it could hurt your bottom line! Its a no braner to me.

Originally Posted by Pete Egeler

I wouldn't, and I'm really beginning to wonder what today's parents are teaching their kids!

The increasing wave of 4-letter laced language is really upsetting.

Frankly, I don't care for the garbage mouth crowd. I don't care WHAT your name is, there's no excuse for it.

Pete

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Robert Puddy

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Josh Anderson

Have you ever heard anyone say that they won't buy a product because it did not contain enough profanity in the sales copy or content of the product?

Unless it was a book on swearing or the person was a profanity connoisseur I don't think that would be the case ;-)

Not strictly true, while i wouldnt complain about lack of profanity... I would run a million miles from someone expressing this type of holier than thou sanctimonious statement

Originally Posted by Pete Egeler

I wouldn't, and I'm really beginning to wonder what today's parents are teaching their kids!

The increasing wave of 4-letter laced language is really upsetting.

Frankly, I don't care for the garbage mouth crowd. I don't care WHAT your name is, there's no excuse for it.

Pete

not trying to start a fight with Pete on this one by the way, each to his own... but that would be my reaction... same for anyone using religion as a sales tool, as in christian site with christian values etc.

Like i said, we just have to be who we are and attract those who like who we are, thats the key here.

Originally Posted by Kevin Birch

There is absolutely no need for it, especially if it could hurt your bottom line! Its a no brainer to me.

Trying to appeal to everyone, instead of being you is the way to hurt your bottom line. there may be someone in the audience who doesnt buy because you swear, equally there might 3 people in the audience who buy because they relate to your personality.

Just be yourself and forget about who you might or might not offend

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Josh Anderson

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Robert Puddy

Not strictly true, while i wouldnt complain about lack of profanity... I would run a million miles from someone expressing this type of holier than thou sanctimonious statement

Which is why neither profanity nor preaching should be used in business to business products and sales copy.

People do not always correctly interpret people's intentions and reasons for behaving or speaking in a certain way.

It is merely my goal to avoid being exposed to it not to make a statement about the content. Hense the reason I will walk out, turn off, and unsubscribe when I come in contact with a situation, publication, or product that relies heavily on it as a way of expressing the message.

I would do the same if I found myself at a restaurant and served a plate of rancid food.

There is no reason to sit around just to be polite and there is no reason to make a scene. Just don't take a bite and get up and leave and find someplace you will enjoy your self, feel comfortable, appreciate and be able to digest what is being served.

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Robert Puddy

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Josh Anderson

Which is why neither profanity nor preaching should be used in business to business products and sales copy.

People do not always correctly interpret people's intentions and reasons for behaving or speaking in a certain way.

It is merely my goal to avoid being exposed to it not to make a statement about the content. Hense the reason I will walk out, turn off, and unsubscribe when I come in contact with a situation, publication, or product that relies heavily on it as a way of expressing the message.

I would do the same if I found myself at a restaurant and served a plate of rancid food.

There is no reason to sit around just to be polite and there is no reason to make a scene. Just don't take a bite and get up and leave and find someplace you will enjoy your self, feel comfortable, appreciate and be able to digest what is being served.

Which is what happens online ...

Most people stay connected to those they feel an infinity with, and quietly move away from those they dont.

My whole point here is rather than worry what other people think of us, what language we use or dont use. We should each be true to our own self, be what we are and we will naturally attract those people that want to stick around us, and buy from us.

Nothing worse than trying to be something we are not, people will see through that too and move on. I just want to be me, and if that means occasionalyy i let slip with profanity from stage or in a teleseminar then so be it thats me warts and all you will like me or not like me

And its the people who like the real me that buy from me, but I dont want to be forever having to watch what I say, incase i upset someone.

I naturally shy away from people who tell me I shouldnt swear, or cant tell rude jokes, or get a little loud in a bar etc etc it gets to be hard work to be something your not

I have tried 6 different ways to say this BUT...

Just be who you are and everything will work out fine

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Kim Standerline

15 years ago

I don't think the OP was talking about the odd damm and blast which may slip. Heck I'd never open my gob again if I had to watch every word I said.

I was under the impression the OP was talking about using bad language in his sales pitch and sales letters etc purely for the sake of it.

Kim

Originally Posted by Robert Puddy

Which is what happens online ...

Most people stay connected to those they feel an infinity with, and quietly move away from those they dont.

My whole point here is rather than worry what other people think of us, what language we use or dont use. We should each be true to our own self, be what we are and we will naturally attract those people that want to stick around us, and buy from us.

Nothing worse than trying to be something we are not, people will see through that too and move on. I just want to be me, and if that means occasionalyy i let slip with profanity from stage or in a teleseminar then so be it thats me warts and all you will like me or not like me

And its the people who like the real me that buy from me, but I dont want to be forever having to watch what I say, incase i upset someone.

I naturally shy away from people who tell me I shouldnt swear, or cant tell rude jokes, or get a little loud in a bar etc etc it gets to be hard work to be something your not

I have tried 6 different ways to say this BUT...

Just be who you are and everything will work out fine

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Robert Puddy

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kim Standerline

I don't think the OP was talking about the odd damm and blast which may slip. Heck I'd never open my gob again if I had to watch every word I said.

I was under the impression the OP was talking about using bad language in his sales pitch and sales letters etc purely for the sake of it.

Kim

Very true Kim but people kept bringing up Frank Kern...

Frank is just being Frank, and i find him all the more loveable because of it.

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Kim Standerline 15 years ago

Well I must admit I have a soft spot for him as well lol

Originally Posted by Robert Puddy

Very true Kim but people kept bringing up Frank Kern...

Frank is just being Frank, and i find him all the more loveable because of it.
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dsiomtw

15 years ago

Obama called Kanye "douchebag" West a jackass the other day ... and it was funny. Like others have said, it's all in the context and knowing your audience. I'm working on a new salesletter right now and it's going to have a few curse words in it. Anyone who is offended by it would never buy the product anyway, and I guarantee you that if I were to split test it, the version with the curse words in it will outpull a "prude" version.

John Carlton is probably the greatest copywriter of all time. He curses all the time, in the right way and with the right audience. Ya think he knows a thing or two?

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JonathanBoettcher

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

I want to clarify something. I don't care for deliberate profanity in salesletters or written products where the creator has time to come up with something else. In an unscripted video or telecall, I don't mind if something slips out.

Well said, John. People who take the time to write a sales letter have plenty of options at their disposal.

Originally Posted by dsiomtw

I'm working on a new salesletter right now and it's going to have a few curse words in it. Anyone who is offended by it would never buy the product anyway, and I guarantee you that if I were to split test it, the version with the curse words in it will outpull a "prude" version.

I'd be interested to see that matchup, actually. But not letter A, including curse words vs letter B, same thing but words deleted.

Letter A, with curse words, vs Letter B, intelligently re-worked to exclude them.

Would be interesting, at least.

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dsiomtw

15 years ago

One of John Carlton's better salesletters, in my opinion, is a raw, visceral letter that he wrote to sell a "how to" self-defense video. It sold like crazy, and the story that sold it is filled with curse words. Are you people honestly claiming you know more about copywriting than John Carlton?

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JonathanBoettcher

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dsiomtw

One of John Carlton's better salesletters, in my opinion, is a raw, visceral letter that he wrote to sell a "how to" self-defense video. It sold like crazy, and the story that sold it is filled with curse words. Are you people honestly claiming you know more about copywriting than John Carlton?

No, of course not. I think there are really two parts to the question. One is whether or not it works better. The other is should we really be doing that, from a moral perspective.

Two totally different perspectives and arguments.

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Kevin Riley 15 years ago

No. Cursing is not acceptable in my products. I don't think it is professional.

I grew up as a cowboy and worked as a carpenter, so swear words are a natural part of my vocabulary, but not in products. There is a line.
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guitar2godist

15 years ago

No Way!
That is a really bad idea, why?
because profanity is for suckers!

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dsiomtw

15 years ago

OMG some of these responses are mind-blowing. Are you guys marketers??

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haxor

15 years ago

No because your reaching a vast audience, some curse, others dont. Most dont think its professional. Well then again the Rich Jerk has millions but he just insults you i really dont think he curses.

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dsiomtw

15 years ago

Do people read posts before responding? It depends on the context, and the audience. This is like talking to a brick wall. Peace out!

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Karen Blundell 15 years ago

Originally Posted by dsiomtw

Do people read posts before responding? It depends on the context, and the audience. This is like talking to a brick wall. Peace out!

of course we read posts before responding...so sue me if my opinion is not the same as yours. I would never put swear words in my product...period. No I'm not a prude, either. And I do swear sometimes if I get upset enough. In my opinion, putting swear words in your sales copy is unprofessional. But that's just me...I'm thinking...why take a chance with alienating a potential buyer?
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dalvia

15 years ago

Cursing is a WEAK way to get people's attention and display's a lack of tack. I know it's NLP driven but unless you're a Ferrel with no self control, I'd used more creative way to get people's attention.

If you want to SHOCK people, think of other ways that still creates controversy without offending people,

Dale

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Ricky Parker 15 years ago

I ****ing say whatever the **** I want wherever the **** I please.

I'll say **** **** on the sales page and say **** **** in the ebook.

**** **** **** I say **** **** ****
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Rod Cortez

15 years ago

I don't use profanity in MOST of the niches I'm involved in. But there are definitely a couple where I do. My split-testing and tracking has shown that in these two niches, using SOME profanity actually increases my conversions because the demographic and the subculture these niches have are used to a little profane language.

I find the argument for not "offending" people a weak one because enough people get offended without using profanity. Some get offended when you ask them to "opt-in". Some of them get offended if you send them more than one e-mail a week. Some get offended because the word "geek" or "nerd" was used in your sales copy (yes, I got an e-mail like that recently). While I do my best not to offend people, trying to please everyone is not only foolish, but it's not good business.

RoD "You're a @#$%!!!" Cortez

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RevenueGal 15 years ago

It's unprofessional. As an affiliate marketer I go to great lengths to avoid promoting products by those who curse.
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- Mike Calvert 15 years ago
  
  Refraining from the use of profanity is not about being "elitist" and looking down on people. It is about lifting people up.
  
  Over the years, I have spoken my share of curse words, expressed in the heat of the moment. However, for the life of me, I can't remember ever having thoughtfully written profanity into any of my business correspondence, info products, or advertising copy.
  
  Perhaps, this is because I fail to see where the use of profanity makes me a better person for having written it. Nor, do I see where it lifts my prospect up, enriches their life, and makes them a better person for having read it.
  
  Although, I must admit, if my job was selling crack, I'd probably sell more by using a few carefully selected curse words. :rolleyes:
  
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Kevin Riley

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Rod Cortez

I don't use profanity in MOST of the niches I'm involved in. But there are definitely a couple where I do. My split-testing and tracking has shown that in these two niches, using SOME profanity actually increases my conversions because the demographic and the subculture these niches have are used to a little profane language.

I find the argument for not "offending" people a weak one because enough people get offended without using profanity. Some get offended when you ask them to "opt-in". Some of them get offended if you send them more than one e-mail a week. Some get offended because the word "geek" or "nerd" was used in your sales copy (yes, I got an e-mail like that recently). While I do my best not to offend people, trying to please everyone is not only foolish, but it's not good business.

RoD "You're a @#$%!!!" Cortez

I'm offended by your name

and the way you cap D.

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Rod Cortez 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

I'm offended by your name and the way you cap D.

Speaking of caps, Hamster connoisseur, you're going to get a cap in your @#$%! for being offended.

<Grabs martini shaker and pours vodka in it>

RoD
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IdeaLady

15 years ago

In general, the use of profanity is not appropriate in business. However, it may be that one well-placed curse word can get attention and make a point very effectively.

The problem is that many of the people using curse words use them all the time. They lose their power if you use them every time you open your mouth. In some niches that may work, but not most.

BTW--Tony Robbins has been hanging out with Frank Kern lately. Think there's a connection?

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Variable

15 years ago

Seems a little unprofessional in most cases, not that there aren't exceptions. I'm not really offended by it but I wouldn't take the chance that my audience wouldn't be put off. I think I would err on the side of caution.

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PapiShasho Banned 15 years ago

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- fxmmorale 15 years ago
  
  This is an interesting conversation and it seems like it's all about how comfortable you feel in the representation of yourself and your brand.
  
  It's no secret that some of the most respected professionals probably swear up and down behind closed doors and when they're with their buddies, but would hardly ever use it to represent their brand.
  
  What's interesting is that these same people who would use it, might look down upon those of a certain population as lesser without expecting to reap the same judgement.
  
  Someone asked if we were marketers, well the question is not about marketing, but about values. Obviously everyone has a different value level and if you have kids, ask yourself what kind of marketing would you find acceptable for them to be exposed to?
  
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dsiomtw

15 years ago

Obviously everyone has a different value level and if you have kids, ask yourself what kind of marketing would you find acceptable for them to be exposed to?

Who said anything about marketing to kids? Of course if you're marketing to kids you're not going to use curse words. doh!

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JoelMatthews 15 years ago

Originally Posted by dsiomtw

Who said anything about marketing to kids? Of course if you're marketing to kids you're not going to use curse words. doh!

Kids? Technically up until 18 you are a child, I am a kid, and although I don't mind reading profanity in a sales letter, if they are acting all prim and proper on a forum, I would feel deceived, however if I knew they were into it I wouldn't mind. Tonnes and tonnes of children curse, and it normal for them. They watch enough TV and movies, I doubt one sales letter would hurt.
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PapiShasho Banned 15 years ago

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- Kim Standerline 15 years ago
  
  Yes but I imagine their parents do!
  
  Originally Posted by PapiShasho
  
  You also won't find too many kids with credit cards.
  
  I've been nursing for nearly 35 years, and I can assure you my mouth can strip paint if I let fly. It's something common amongst many nurses. (Well the one's I know of anyway). I've seen the times my husband has threatened to wash my mouth out with soap and water!
  
  Having said that, there is a time and a place to let rip, relieving stress in the sluice with some well chosen profanity is a lot different to going out there and verbally abusing the patients. (And that is what it amounts to.)
  
  Point I'm trying to make is if you're adding profanity to your sales page, then it amounts to the same thing as verbally abusing your customers.
  
  Ok I'll admit there may be occassions when it's appropriate such as the sex industry etc. But on the whole I think its a bad idea.
  
  You're not telling me that you're going to lose customers because you didn't say something foul, I just don't believe it. In fact I would suggest that you are more likely to turn more customers away using bad language
  
  It's just not cool folks despite the Frank Kern's of this world
  
  Kim
  
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Swanton84

Banned 15 years ago

To me, cursing in a sales page does attract me to read more. However, I do not practise this technique myself. I believe there are definitely better ways to do your sales pitch.

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seasoned

15 years ago

NOBODY can say ANYONE has used it to profit. It they get $1Trillion who is to say that by not cursing they wouldn't get $2Trillion. BTW I don't curse.

steve

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JohnMcCabe

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dsiomtw

One of John Carlton's better salesletters, in my opinion, is a raw, visceral letter that he wrote to sell a "how to" self-defense video. It sold like crazy, and the story that sold it is filled with curse words. Are you people honestly claiming you know more about copywriting than John Carlton?

You're trying to prove the rule by citing the exception. Yes, that particular letter is filled with curse words, and I'll bet Carlton can give you specific reasons why he used every single one of them and why that curse word and not another.

If you believe you have that same skill level, and you put the same thought and effort into choosing and using words, have at it.

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Kelly Verge

15 years ago

No.

My kids have never heard me curse.

My parents have never heard me curse.

Why would I curse to, at, or for my customers?

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dorim

15 years ago

I just unsubscribed from a list I'd been on for a few weeks because he had a special offer he was promoting that sent me to another site with the most vulgar headline I'd ever seen. No, it wasn't profanity, but it was crass, and crude and he lost one list member because of it.I won't post the link here because I don't know if it will get me banned. I don't even know what the offer was because I clicked off after reading the headline. Wouldn't it be better to write headlines and sales pages that appeal to all groups of people?

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Raydal

15 years ago

I want to be blessed, not cursed so I don't curse period.

-Ray Edwards

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BJ Min 15 years ago

i prefer not to curse because i feel that's inappropriate
and it's not necessary...and can be offensive to many people...

about tony robbins...i think i heard him say it or it was donald trump
in one of his tips...that he uses CURSING to actually wake people up...

sometimes when you curse, i heard that people will listen more attentively...

still i don't like the whole cursing thing myself...it's just not
necessary in my opinion...
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jbsmith

15 years ago

Hello NO!

I curse at my products
I curse at other people's products
I curse when I'm buying a product
I curse when I'm creating a new product
I curse at anyone who tells me they don't like my products
I curse at customers who like it too much and won't leave me alone!
I sometimes even curse at my best customers - but they know me it's ok

Do I curse IN my products or marketing - never :-)

Jeff

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Jason Moffatt

15 years ago

I find it interesting that many people will admit to swearing in their life and through many social occasions but when it comes to marketing it's totally off limits.

In my mind, this creates a big incongruence in who you really are. If you are afraid to be yourself, that sucks.

If you have to change who you are to appease other people, that's got be a pretty sh*tty way to live.

F-That!

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JonathanBoettcher

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt

I find it interesting that many people will admit to swearing in their life and through many social occasions but when it comes to marketing it's totally off limits.

In my mind, this creates a big incongruence in who you really are. If you are afraid to be yourself, that sucks.

If you have to change who you are to appease other people, that's got be a pretty sh*tty way to live.

F-That!

Let me put it to you this way: Do you burp loudly when at a classy restaurant or otherwise in public, perhaps when meeting someone important?

If no, do you burp loudly at home sometimes?

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fifthnormal

15 years ago

Why curse when you don't have to? It seems that you are only adding in the possibility of offending someone by putting that in your sales copy. Offending someone is a sure way to lose a sale.

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Tim Franklin 15 years ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Anderson
Have you ever heard anyone say that they won't buy a product because it did not contain enough profanity in the sales copy or content of the product?

Unless it was a book on swearing or the person was a profanity connoisseur I don't think that would be the case ;-)

Not strictly true, while i wouldnt complain about lack of profanity... I would run a million miles from someone expressing this type of holier than thou sanctimonious statement

Hmmm, Who are you and what have you done with Robert?:rolleyes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Egeler
I wouldn't, and I'm really beginning to wonder what today's parents are teaching their kids!

The increasing wave of 4-letter laced language is really upsetting.

Frankly, I don't care for the garbage mouth crowd. I don't care WHAT your name is, there's no excuse for it.

Pete
not trying to start a fight with Pete on this one by the way, each to his own... but that would be my reaction... same for anyone using religion as a sales tool, as in christian site with christian values etc.

Then really what is your goal, because looking at the quote, I do not see anything that even suggests the christian faith, just your post, which I find a little puzzling, because the robert I know would not say that, just curious has someone hacked your account?

Like i said, we just have to be who we are and attract those who like who we are, thats the key here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Birch
There is absolutely no need for it, especially if it could hurt your bottom line! Its a no brainer to me.
Trying to appeal to everyone, instead of being you is the way to hurt your bottom line. there may be someone in the audience who doesnt buy because you swear, equally there might 3 people in the audience who buy because they relate to your personality.

Just be yourself and forget about who you might or might not offend

Hmmm, I guess we all have bad days, I just dont see anything wrong with any of the posts you picked to focus on, nothing that would offend even an atheist, by the way you have heard the joke about the atheist

you know that one the airplane that nearly crashed, and then at the last few seconds, the plane pulled out of the dive, then the atheist wipes his forehead and says thank God...
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marciayudkin

15 years ago

Just this morning I was listening to a well-known Internet marketer (male) doing a preview call for a conference where probably 70 percent of the attendees will be women business owners. He wasn't cursing, but he was using a lot of denigrating and disrespectful language like "stupid" - words that a lot of moms don't let their kids use in casual conversation and words that a lot of women don't like to hear, period.

I don't often do this, but I turned off the recording and did not want to listen to another word from him. His use of such language made me uninterested in the conference and made me question the judgment of the woman running the conference, who to be frank sounded a little nervous during the call before I shut it off. I don't know if that was the reason.

The bottom line is that you have to be true to yourself and you have to match your audience's expectations.

It's rare that there's an audience that will reject you because you don't curse and put people down. It's pretty common to find an audience that will think poorly of you if you do these things.

Marcia Yudkin

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Silas Hart

14 years ago

Cussing comes off as unprofessional, however it does come off as personal when used in the proper context.

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roxstar

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Pete Egeler

I wouldn't, and I'm really beginning to wonder what today's parents are teaching their kids!

The increasing wave of 4-letter laced language is really upsetting.

Frankly, I don't care for the garbage mouth crowd. I don't care WHAT your name is, there's no excuse for it.

Pete

I don't believe people need an excuse to swear.

Originally Posted by dsiomtw

Obama called Kanye "douchebag" West a jackass the other day ... and it was funny.

LMFAO - wow, it must suck to be Kanye sometimes. When the president calls you a douche then you know you've done something wrong.

I curse when I feel the need to. It's more to emphasize a point. I don't swear to make fun of people, or hurt them in any way. Unless I'm pissed off at someone (in the real world) and about to fight them then I'll probably do some swearing. Besides that when I get a little hyper then I tend to swear more.

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Jeff_Gardner

15 years ago

BTW, I've been to Tony's "Date with Destiny" event and he cursed like a sailor there. Didn't bother me a bit... but I know some people were put off. Personally, I wouldn't do it, just because I know my market - and it'd turn off more than it'd attract. BUT - there are some markets (and some niches of markets) where it actually attracts your market. My opinion is: If it works for your niche/market, give it a shot. It's about marketing, in most cases - not about our made-up social norms.

But then again, that's my opinion.

Best,
Jeff

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timpears

15 years ago

If you don't curse, you are not going to offend anyone. If you do curse, you will undoubtedly offend some if not many of your prospects. So why would you want to take the chance of offending any of your possible customers. I can't see why it would benefit you to curse in your materials.

I am no prude by any means as I have called my computer all kinds of names that I don't wish to share with people. But there is a place for that and it just doesn't belong in the sales material or the product, in my opinion. But then what the Hades do I know?

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Christophe Young

15 years ago

Personally, I've never been one to let the expletives fly in public, I leave that at home for the cat.

Actually, I think people that curse excessively sound immature and unprofessional. Even if I thought my target market might prefer it I still wouldn't do it as it's not who I am.

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Robert Puddy 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Christophe Young

I still wouldn't do it as it's not who I am.

That there is the key...

Be who you are, even if that means profanity, your supposed to be you, warts and all to attract like minded people, your not supposed to be everything to everyone.

You want loyal rabid customers, who love for who you are and buy from you because of it.
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Tim Franklin

15 years ago

I have to say that it really serves no purpose, it does not make your product even on inch better, though it could make it quite a bit less effective, personally I think it is juvenile, yeah it might have been funny when you were ten, but so was looking up funny words in the dictionary, but really most people are all grown up now, and just do not appreciate the use of vulgar language, after all are you not smarter than that?

Another interesting fact that the best selling books of all time contain little or no foul language, in fact the best selling book of all time has no profanity at all.

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Josh Anderson

15 years ago

There is no benefit to doing it. Only potential negative effect if not at the time of use then throughout life because of its use. If you feel you must use it to fit in, identify with, or appeal to the audience... then in my opinion you are in the wrong business.

Using profanity tarnishes an image, leaves negative impression, offends people...

And one problem is that sometimes people use profanity that goes beyond vulgarity and includes racial, religious, or other meanings that they may not understand the impact of on people who find it offensive.

This is coming from a guy who managed to completely stop the habit swearing after being notorious for getting into fights because of his belligerent foul mouth and generally using profanity for punctuation for years as a teen and young adult...

I only got away with it because I lived on my own from the age of 15 spending most of my teen and young adult years living on the streets. Otherwise I would likely have grown up with a bar of soap permanently lodged in my teeth by my mom.

There simply is no real benefit to profanity in business products or sales copy. There is always a better non or less offensive alternative available.

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Jason Moffatt

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Josh Anderson

There simply is no real benefit to profanity in business products or sales copy. There is always a better non or less offensive alternative available.

What if I was selling a George Carlin CD?

How about a Richard Pryor DVD?

How about a Lenny Bruce book?

I like you and all Josh, and your words have great intention but in some situations you are wronger then wrong.

I sill love ya though!

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Josh Anderson

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt

What if I was selling a George Carlin CD?

How about a Richard Pryor DVD?

How about a Lenny Bruce book?

I like you and all Josh, and your words have great intention but in some situations you are wronger then wrong.

I sill love ya though!

What you need to understand about my opinion is that I don't believe that those are businesses worth being in if I am required to use profanity to participate.

This is just the way I have chosen to move my own use of language so as to cut out the use of profanity in my life.

And George Carlin used to be one of my favorite comics...

Back when I still used the stuff ;-)

You see... even though I enjoy you for who you are and your obvious talents skills and great snippets of knowledge...

I would leave the room if it contained profanity.

For me its a personal choice but it also is a spiritual one. It's not about the person using the profanity... its about the negative effect of profanity on my mind and spirit and the minds and spirits of others.

So if someone's goal was to sell Carlin... then it would sell... but if your goal was to get more people to buy your product and it was not a product about how to sell more Carlin...

Then myself and others like me would not likely stick around.

I was once at a Big Seminar with Russell Brunson when T. Harv Ecker took the stage... it was early in the morning and the guy looked like he'd been up all night on a bender.

He started his presentation with a bunch of profanity...

He reminded me of a burnt out seminar super star who just expected to sell based on his name and not the quality of his presentation.

Both Russell and I walked out.

I bet there is stuff Mr. Ecker puts out that I could be very compelled to buy.

But if he presents it with profanity... I ain't buying and if it contains profanity throughout after buying and I was not warned about that before buying I would return it for a refund.

So if his goal it to exclude people such as myself by the use of that language then he accomplishes his goal.

There are millions of prospects who feel the same way.

But if his goal is to sell more and influence more people...

Then leave out the profanity.

Have you ever heard anyone say that they won't buy a product because it did not contain enough profanity in the sales copy or content of the product?

Unless it was a book on swearing or the person was a profanity connoisseur I don't think that would be the case ;-)

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Jason Moffatt

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Josh Anderson

What you need to understand about my opinion is that I don't believe that those are businesses worth being in if I am required to use profanity to participate.

I am not however, giving advice to others... this is just the way I have chosen to move my own use of language so as to cut out the use of profanity in my life.

And George Carlin used to be one of my favorite comics...

Back when I still used the stuff ;-)

You see... even though I enjoy you for who you are and your obvious talents skills and great snippets of knowledge...

I would leave the room if it contained profanity.

For me its a personal choice but it also is a spiritual one. It's not about the person using the profanity... its about the negative effect of profanity on my mind and spirit and the minds and spirits of others.

And I appreciate your choices Josh, and I wouldn't purposely put you in a position to hear my foul mouth.

However, I've split test cursing vs no cursing and cursing CRUSHED the church tongue. Guess what the target market was?

WARRIOR FORUM MEMBERS!

So I'm just saying that there is a benefit in using it in certain situations.

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Scott Ames

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt

And I appreciate your choices Josh, and I wouldn't purposely put you in a position to hear my foul mouth.

However, I've split test cursing vs no cursing and cursing CRUSHED the church tongue. Guess what the target market was?

WARRIOR FORUM MEMBERS!

So I'm just saying that there is a benefit in using it in certain situations.

I was actually hoping you would respond to this thread. When I wrote it I actually thought of you. You wouldn't be the same guy without the cursing. Now split testing it, that's perhaps the best answer one could give. If cursing makes you more bank, then cool.

"Church tongue", lol.. that made me laugh.

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Jason Moffatt

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Scott Ames

Some don't mind cursing at all. Some however find it very offensive which is why it surprises me that some marketers include it in their products. Sure, you must be yourself and I guess if you are successful you've found your audience. Still I wonder if you leave money on the table when you curse.

I was surprised that Tony Robbins does it. He didn't in the beginning at least not on tape. I guess he is now big enough that it doesn't matter and he is just going to be himself.

If you pay attention, Tony typically will swear right before he's about to help someone make a shift in a belief system.

The curse words are just a pattern interrupt and are purposely designed to get you off balanced. If you think this isn't effective, you are sadly mistaken.

And hey, as the ex Vice President Dick Cheney once said on the house floor... "Go F%$K Yourself". If a right wing conservative and vice president of the United States can use it, so can I.

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Brad Gosse

15 years ago

I do it so much in my regular life I now wonder if I do it in my products lol. I think I keep things clean.

I don't worry about it much though. That is who I am, I like to swear.

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Dano77

15 years ago

Johnny Depp says that he doesn't do anything his kids can't watch...

Truth is, I bet tony robbins started cursing after spending a few hours with Kern, it catches on...

But I do agree it sure makes you think MUCH less of a person. I mean if you have no better vocab than that? How much farther from a low life are ya?

Dan

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cclou

15 years ago

I don't curse in my products, but I don't tend to curse in real life either, unless I stub my toe.* It doesn't typically bother me when I read, unless it is directed at someone or a group of people. That would have me unsubscribing from a person's list quite quickly.

I'm female, and most of my audience is as well. I'm not saying no women use profanity, but it certainly seems to be a rarity among business women in a business or professional environment.

*When I do curse at home it tends to be frak and frell and other curses from science fiction shows. I don't know that being a scifi geek is going to rake in the sales, at least in my niches.

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HeyAdMan

15 years ago

To me cursing is a sign that a person has not learned enough of the English language to express themselves properly.

Also I grew up with "let your yea be yea and you nay be nay. Whatsoever is more than this is from the evil one."

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James Pateman

15 years ago

Hi Scott,

I think being yourself is very important, although not to the detriment of others.

regards,
James Pateman

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paulie888

14 years ago

I don't do it myself in everyday life normally, and this is why I'd never intentionally consider inserting profanity in any of my products as it just wouldn't seem normal to me, irrespective of whether it's going to bring me greater conversions or not.

I was a little shocked too at how much cursing Tony Robbins has done in his recent on-stage appearances, perhaps it's a marketing ploy to endear himself to his audience demographic? I don't think he used to do it in his early days, he does seem to be changing his image to be more 'rough' and aggressive than before.

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Paul Lear

14 years ago

No, but I curse about the products I buy sometimes...lol

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GarrieWilson

14 years ago

Look at the date...

Look at who bumped and the post...

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discrat

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Scott Ames

I don't mind cursing. It doesn't bother me as much as it does some, but I will admit it makes me think slightly less of the person and I'm not even sure why. I say that knowing that I do it too when I'm angry, but I can't imagine doing it casually on tape or in normal conversation.

You know I will have to agree with you. Cursing doesnt totally bug the heck out of me. But when I see someone dropping f- bombs or any other bad profanity in an email or some other kind of medium it does make me think less of them.

I really cant pinpoint why because I curse myself. But I think the reason it does make me think less of that person is that the individual many times doesnt even know me and is making the assumption that it is okay to communicate with me in this manner.

So its not so much as the person actually cursing but its the 'taking for granted' part that makes me think less of them !! Kind of similar when a complete stranger I meet at a Seminar came up to me after knowing me for five minutes and started cracking jokes about Democrats. I dissed him immediatley because he had no idea what my affiliation was.

I just move and disregard people like this because if they are disrespecting me from the git go like this, I can only imagine what they will be like down the road !

No thanks !!

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