How did you get started with your own business, how do you organize it?

25 replies
Hi all.

I've been into IM now since January 2009 and things are going well. I focused on Affiliate marketing and creating WSO's.

Ten days ago I started to offer my services to small businesses by responding ads that were posted on craigslist searching for somebody to do the SEO for their sites. On Monday I had my first meeting and they hired me . So far so good.

Problem is that I was doing everything on my own form home before approaching offline companies. Creating simple landing pages, article marketing, creating reports and so forth. No big deal, could handle that stuff from home. When I had the meeting they asked me if I want to work for them as a contractor and I realized that I have to make some changes and move on to the next level if I want to offer my services to companies. (in terms of officially creating my own small business)

For now we arranged that I work for them as an 'employee' so to speak till I have my business up and running. They want me to work for them as a contractor so that I can take care of my taxes and so forth.

Anyways here is the thing, I know how to do SEO and all that good stuff but I don't know how to create or organize a small business.

My question is, do you guys have some books, courses or websites that you can recommend me? If I have learned anything in the last 9 month, then it's that I gotta read the right books and follow people who already walked the walk.

I don't want to do a lot of beginner's mistakes along the way if I can avoid them by listening to the right people.

So if you have been in the same position and you had a great book, course or site that really helped you, please let me know. I'm asking that here because there might be a couple of particular things that I should keep in mind being an Internet marketer !?

Any advise would be greatly appreciated, hope you can point me in the right direction.

Thanks.
Mario
#business #imer #make #small #transition
  • Profile picture of the author ezminisites
    OK, here's the deal. Try going to your Chamber of Commmerce and ask for TRIDEC or any organization like that. There ussually are organizations that cator to help small businesses in your area. Also look for SBA or Small Business Administration for help. Lots of older retired people join these organizations that love to help the younger folks get a business going and organized.

    Cheers!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mario Brown
      Thanks ezminisites,

      I'll check that out. Any other great sources to get started, great website or amazing book on that topic that some of you wished they had before they started out.

      Any advise would be helpful.

      Cheers,
      Mario
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      ‎"Success is waking up in the morning, whoever you are, however old or young, and bounding out of bed because there's something out there that you love to do, that you believe in, that you're good at -- something that's bigger than you are, and you can't hardly wait to get at it again today." Whit Hobbs

      Visit My Website: http://www.mariobrown.net/

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      • Profile picture of the author jayveen
        I've also read that its a real good idea to incorporate, like through Quickbooks.com, in some state that has good tax laws and cheap setup fees. Evidently Nevada recently raised fees (or inserted some bogus license fees that you get stuck with right after you file for incorporation) and I've read online that Wyoming is a good place. I've seen total packages --- with the local registered agent for a year --- for under $200.00.

        I haven't jumped into that because I have some of the same questions you do, and I don't want to find out that there was a much better way to set up than I'd think up myself. Anyway, thanks for the post and I'll look forward to the responses.

        Jay
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        • Profile picture of the author Mario Brown
          Hi Jay,

          thanks for your response. I'm also looking forward to hear from some experienced Warriors about how they got started got started. They might have some great tips or sources for us to check out.

          Mario
          Signature

          ‎"Success is waking up in the morning, whoever you are, however old or young, and bounding out of bed because there's something out there that you love to do, that you believe in, that you're good at -- something that's bigger than you are, and you can't hardly wait to get at it again today." Whit Hobbs

          Visit My Website: http://www.mariobrown.net/

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          • Profile picture of the author Mario Brown
            Warriors, any tips, great books or websites that you can recommend for somebody starting out creating their own small business?

            Cheers,
            Mario
            Signature

            ‎"Success is waking up in the morning, whoever you are, however old or young, and bounding out of bed because there's something out there that you love to do, that you believe in, that you're good at -- something that's bigger than you are, and you can't hardly wait to get at it again today." Whit Hobbs

            Visit My Website: http://www.mariobrown.net/

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  • Profile picture of the author bhopkins
    If you want to learn about business then one of the best places to start is on sba.gov. They are not just for loans. Also most states have small business development centers which have some great classes you can take either free or very cheap. These are also available at a lot of community type colleges.

    I have a degree which covered a lot of business details so I never went this route sinc eI already knew a lot. First thing is to put together a business plan. I recommend you buy Business plan pro as it will have templates that do a lot of the work for you. Regardless of the sample plan you start with go through every area in a plan and make sure you think about the variables.

    Once you have a plan make sure you get legal and protect yourself. You don't want a LLC as in limited liability corporation but a limited liability company. There are tax reasons for this, but you will get a lot out of the classes and websites listed above. You can get this done on Legal Zoom very reasonable and it will be totally legal in most areas.

    After you get everything set up,m then work your plan. If something is not working as you expected then modify the plan but don't abandon your plan.

    Of course make sure you take care of the business side such as accounting and vendor issues. And also make sure you keep up with your tax information, make sure you are keeping track of every expense and your revenue. In other words treat this like a business and not like a hobby and you will do fine.

    hth
    Bruce
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    Bruce

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  • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
    I highly recommend you find a good CPA to start off with. While they are not lawyers (neither am I - so never take verbatim legal advice from strangers on a forum - and I'm pretty strange ;-) CPAs can give excellent advice on the type of entity you should form your business around.

    These details vary between States, Counties, and even cities and one wrong or missing form can cause you a lot of grief.

    In NC - its cheaper to do a regular corporation than an LLC - but most lawyers I've talked to recommend LLCs. For my day job, the company I co-founded with a friend and former boss, we just incorporated in NC.

    We looked very seriously at incorporating in Delaware - because Delaware is very business friendly and has a lot of case law about business dealings. If you're thinking of forming a company to get funding or high growth Delaware is the preferred state.

    We started out with a sub chapter s designation but eventually went back to a full C corp. Note this is a tax designation, and allows you certain tax benefits - but the requirements are very strict. A CPA or lawyer can advise you of the proper form - just remember CPA's have a tendency to be more affordable.

    For my writing and IM activities I just do business as a DBA (doing business as). Folks claim incorporating is necessary for liability reasons - but if you do not follow all the 'rules' for an incorporated company - things like its own banking accounts, regular meetings, filing all regulatory and required paperwork - then a Judge or other jurisdiction (think IRS) can 'pierce' the corporate veil and take your assets anyway.

    Incorporation CAN protect you - but you have to follow the rules. For me the added expense of incorporation etc didn't make sense to me at that time. However, with things growing more toward my IM businesses rather than writing/royalties - I will be incorporating at the beginning of next year. After talking with my CPA and polite requests from lawyer friends at lunch etc (remember to NETWORK!) a C corp in my own state makes more sense than trying to incorporate elsewhere or forming an LLC.

    As for incorporating in another state for any reason - most folks do this for tax reasons - you should realize that most states require you to still register in your home state as a foreign corporation - so you still need to register in your own state. Now you have the expense of 2 corporations to maintain. Again - this is something to discuss with an expert.

    The folks at SCORE and the SBA are fine to discuss things with and bounce ideas off of - but as Rich Dad/Poor Dad emphasize, you need a team of professionals to help you - and I'd recommend finding a great CPA as your first member. You'll really be thankful come tax time too.

    good luck!
    best,
    --Jack
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    Let's get Tim the kidney he needs!HELP Tim
    Mega Monster WSO for KimW http://ow.ly/4JdHm


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    • Profile picture of the author Tam Chancellor
      Check out your local SCORE office. I can't remember exactly what the first two letters mean (society core or society counselors?? of retired executives.) They usually have an office close to SBA. Services are free. All the volunteers were management and/or entrepreneurs.

      They also have an excellent website at SCORE
      You can also sign up for email mentoring. There are hundreds of mentors categorized by industry and state. You can sort through them and contact one whose experience matches what you are looking for.

      Also, the SBDC, Small Business Development Center, might be able to help you. Their services are free too. Once you contact one agency, you will learn about the others-- they work together.

      Good luck,
      Tam

      Forgot to add: I highly recommend the book: Small Time Business Operator: How to Start Your Own Business, Keep Your Books, Pay Your Taxes & Stay Out of Trouble by Bernard Kamoroff. I believe a new edition comes out every two years.
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      "Talking ain't doing." --Zoe Washburne

      "What you do speaks so loud I cannot hear what you say." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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      • Profile picture of the author Mario Brown
        Thanks a lot for the tips and sources, they seem like a very good place to start at. I'm definitely take advantage of SCORE, nothing better than talking to somebody who has experience.

        Also, I'm going to ask a couple of friends if they can recommend me a CPA, also I gotta find out how much they charge.

        Thanks a lot for the tips, very much appreciated.

        If somebody knows about other great sites and books, please add them
        as well, thank you.

        Cheers,
        Mario
        Signature

        ‎"Success is waking up in the morning, whoever you are, however old or young, and bounding out of bed because there's something out there that you love to do, that you believe in, that you're good at -- something that's bigger than you are, and you can't hardly wait to get at it again today." Whit Hobbs

        Visit My Website: http://www.mariobrown.net/

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        • Profile picture of the author mannex
          Check out the self-help books from Nolo Press, at your local library or nolo (dot) com.

          As mentioned in the string above, Small Time Operator by Bernard Kamoroff is excellent.
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  • Profile picture of the author SageSound
    This is like saying you're ready to start dating, and asking if anybody has any good ideas on getting a girlfriend.

    Except there are lots of potential legal pitfalls in setting up a business vs. dating.

    I'll PM you with a suggestion.

    -David
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  • Profile picture of the author Popstar
    Mario,

    You don't need to worry about incorporating or forming an LLC yet. You can be a sole proprietor (which means you report your earnings on an IRS Schedule C for self-employment). Rather than be classified as an employee, you can work as an independent contractor. If your clients want to be sure that they own any intellectual property you create for them, they can contract with you as a sole proprietor under a Work-for-Hire Agreement (which they should pay an attorney to draft).

    The most important thing for any new business owner is to create as much positive cash flow as possible. Once your business is up and running, then spend the fees to create a separate business entity.

    However, if you feel that it would be more professional to create that entity now, then I suggest that you talk to a lawyer, not a CPA. But find a good one who specializes in business... an incompetent lawyer is worse than no lawyer at all.

    Nolo.com has some good books. Two that you may want to check out are: 1) Form Your Own Limited Liability Company by Anthony Mancuso, and 2) (if you ultimately decide to do so) Your Limited Liability Company: An Operating Manual by Anthony Mancuso.

    You may also want to look at the Nolo.com book, "Working For Yourself: Law & Taxes for Independent Contractors, Freelancers & Consultants." I believe they also have an ekit called "Working as an Independent Contractor," although I haven't used it myself.

    When you start making money and need to file your taxes, then it's a good idea to hire a CPA to do your Schedule C, at a minimum. Most CPAs will have you use Quickbooks to keep your accounting straight, but again, don't jump the gun. Unless you really start to build a clientele and you're sure this is the business you want to stay in and can profit from, don't waste money on unnecessary expenses.

    Most likely, you already have to file a Schedule C to report your online earnings from wsos and affiliate marketing.

    You may want to get an Employer Identification Number (EIN) from the IRS so that you can look more professional when you open business bank accounts and file your tax return. You can apply online here... Apply for an Employer Identification Number (EIN) Online

    You can get an EIN as a sole proprietor, if you want.

    If I were you, I'd be most concerned with getting clients and referrals and making sure I got paid promptly.

    Also, while I'm a big believer in strategy, I think it's a waste of time to write up a formal business plan for you... at least at this point. You're not seeking venture capital or a bank loan; focus on revenue and cash flow first. That's what the pros do.

    Here's my disclaimer... I'm not a CPA or a lawyer so I'm not offering legal advice, etc. But I have already gone through this and I do have a lot of business experience.

    Whatever you decide to do, good luck.

    Debbie
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    • Profile picture of the author SageSound
      Originally Posted by Popstar View Post

      You may want to get an Employer Identification Number (EIN) from the IRS so that you can look more professional when you open business bank accounts and file your tax return. You can apply online here... Apply for an Employer Identification Number (EIN) Online

      You can get an EIN as a sole proprietor, if you want.
      My understanding is that the IRS stopped issuing EINs for sole propietorships several years ago. You must use your own SSN. Quoting from the above link, which is somewhat ambiguous:

      Important information for Sole Proprietors

      A sole proprietor can have only one EIN, regardless of the number or types of businesses you operate. If you were previously assigned an EIN as a sole proprietor, you must continue to use that number. If you were previously assigned an EIN as a Household Employer, you should use that number for your sole proprietor needs as well. If you are unable to locate your sole proprietor EIN, follow the instructions located here. If you need to update your business address information, complete Form 8822 (PDF) and mail it to us.
      AFAIK, that "one EIN" is your SSN. You used to be able to apply for any number of EINs.


      (Part of the problem is that they're running out of numbers! So they don't want to allocate more than one to any "legal person", which includes individuals and entities.)

      -David
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  • Profile picture of the author Popstar
    @SageSound,

    You're probably right about the EIN. I know you can use your own SSN as a sole proprietor for taxes. I have an EIN for my LLC.

    Nevertheless, I think it's a huge mistake to get caught up in spending lots of money on a business entity BEFORE you're actually making money. That's the fastest way to put yourself behind the financial eightball.

    You don't need a corporation or LLC to be an independent contractor.

    Debbie
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    • Profile picture of the author TheWealthSquad
      You can get an EIN. It is different than your Social Security number. You can only get one as a sole prop though. If you form a separate legal entity such as an LLC, S-Corp, etc you get new ones for those.

      When you think of your business structure there are different parts you need to think about. It is not usually a straight forward decision though it can be easy if you have the right knowledge. I have started a series of articles on different business structures with their pros and cons.

      http://www.askthewealthsquad.com/blo...roprietorship/ covers sole props. If you have questions I will be glad to answer them for you just PM me or use my contact form on my website.

      1) Taxes
      2) Legal liability
      3) Simplicity
      4) Capital
      5) Exit strategy

      1) Taxes - When you talk to a CPA, they will tell you to do what is best from a tax standpoint (and not all CPAs are experts in taxation. They are accountants - they keep excellent records but may not have a lot of experience in setting up a business structure to minimize the taxes you pay or the liability you have). Ask them for the reason they suggest what they suggest. Don't take it on faith that they know what they are talking about. The different entities have different tax benefits and advantages. Just make sure you understand the benefits of doing it the way they suggest.

      2) Legal liability - Piercing the veil was mentioned above. Treat your business as a separate being. It is not you. Have a separate checking account, etc to reduce your liability. Usually setting up your business in the state you do business in will be the easiest and best thing to do. People often mention Delaware but unless you are going to physically operate in many different states and be a several million dollar business it probably is not worth it. You also have to register in the state you are doing business in as well as a foreign entity. This only applies to physical presence. Doing business on the internet would not create a nexus in that state. Also realize that some affiliate programs are starting to drop certain states. Amazon doesn't like NC because of some recent changes in the nexus laws (Nexus is how they get a physical presence. NC decided that an affiliate in the state meant they had a physical presence and had to collect sales tax on every thing sold by an affiliate in the state. So Amazon simply dropped all affiliates in NC.

      3) Simplicity - Every decision creates its own consequences. Being a sole prop is the simplest business structure. It is the least tax favorable and has the least legal protection. Combining a C-Corp with an S-corp provides the greatest tax reductions with the greatest legal protection but also has the greatest complexity due to the number of forms required, different bank accounts, tax returns, etc. It also has a higher cost because of those reasons too. So you have to decide if the advantages outweigh the consequences.

      4) Capital - As a sole prop, you have difficultly getting capital if you need it. As a business structure, you have to establish and build your own business credit. You do have more options though for selling private stock, taking on investors, etc. If capital is not an issue, don't worry about this one.

      5) Exit strategy - If you plan on one day selling your business, the structure you have will have some impact on how easy it is to sell. A sole prop business is harder to sell IMHO. Most people will only buy the assets and not the business so you will have to close the business unless you are just selling parts of it. Having separate business accounts makes it easier to show the value of what you are selling.

      Disclaimer - I am not an attorney, accountant or other legal professional. I do coach small business on a regular basis on how to reduce their taxes and be more profitable so I have learned the basics over the years. Some things will change by state. In SC a S-Corp is far simpler to set up and maintain than an LLC but you also have to issue yourself a W2.

      I am happy to help with any specifics,just contact me.

      Thanx
      Scott
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  • Profile picture of the author Popstar
    @Scott,

    If he's going to form a business entity like a C or S corp, then he needs to talk to an attorney. Most people just use an LLC which usually works like a sole proprietorship for federal tax purposes... meaning that your LLC income is reported on a Schedule C. The problem with taking advice from someone in a different state is that the laws for all these entities vary by state. He needs to talk to a qualified attorney in his state. Also, some CPAs are attorneys and vice versa.

    But I don't see why he would want a C or S corp if he's just doing consulting work. Taxation and salary issues can get complex with those types of structures. Even if the entity gets more favorable tax rates, you have to be careful that you don't get taxed twice... once at the entity level and then personally. There's usually a lot of paperwork involved, too, which means more time and fees.

    As to an exit strategy, he has no assets to sell if he's just doing consulting work. He's one person and without him, there is no business. Now if he hires other consultants so that the business can run without him, then he's got something to sell. But that's the point I've been trying to make from the beginning. He's not anywhere near that point yet, so it's overkill IMHO to spend a lot of time and money establishing legal entities that will do nothing for him right now. He can always do that later.

    Whatever money he's made from wsos and affiliate marketing has to be reported to the IRS and he'll have to pay self-employment taxes, if applicable. He can report his consulting income the same way. You do make a good point about keeping separate business accounts, no matter what legal structure he uses.

    As a consultant, it's hard to see why he would need to raise capital. Even if he did, I don't believe a bank would lend to him in this economic environment, especially because he has no assets or continuing income. Again, he can always establish a separate legal entity when his business warrants it.

    IMHO, spending a lot of money to establish a business entity BEFORE you're making a lot of money is the same mistake as spending tens of thousands on a pretty website before you know if you can sell from it. It's the fastest way to go out of business that I know of.

    Debbie
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  • Profile picture of the author JonMills
    At first all paperwork then i created my software affiliate organizer
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    http://www.thecopywriterwhisperer.com/ Persuasion at it's best!
    http://www.affiliateorganizer.com/ Organize your entire online business - Super affiliates give it the thumbs up!
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  • Profile picture of the author TheWealthSquad
    @Popstar - You are correct for his particular situation and where he is today. I always suggest speaking to someone in your state since all business entities are state registered and not Federal.

    For someone doing consulting work and doing some WSO, a simple single member LLC is probably the easiest and safest method to use. In SC it just so happens than a single member S-Corp is actually easier to set up and does have some tax benefits. It does require doing payroll though.

    Each state is different. Each person is different. He may plan on growing into a multi person organization with millions in revenue. If he does, he needs to think through his strategy now.

    Notice I did include simplicity in the equation. Not everyone wants to deal with the paperwork.

    Any time you look for someone to help you (CPA, Lawyer, coach, etc) ask them what experience they have dealing with a small business and why they are suggested the path they are.

    He can be a million dollar business as a sole prop but it isn't something I would recommend from a legal liability standpoint nor from a tax standpoint.

    It isn't what you make that gets you wealthy, its what you get to keep.

    PS S-Corps never get double taxed as they are flow through entities. The only place you have to be careful is with a C Corp as you can get hit there. But C corps also get more deduction opportunities from a retirement plan, benefits, etc than any of the other structures.
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  • Profile picture of the author Popstar
    @Scott,

    I agree that a million dollar business probably wouldn't want to be a sole proprietorship. But he can change his structure when he reaches that point. A single member LLC might offer him some liability protection with business debts (which shouldn't be a problem for a consultant anyway), although there isn't tort liability protection (at least not in my state).

    But there's really no difference from a tax standpoint at the federal level between an LLC and a sole proprietorship. So while I agree with your statement about trying to keep as much of your wealth as possible, I don't think an LLC will help him with that right now.

    I also agree with your statement that S corps are flow-through entities. But salary issues can be tricky with them, too. The issues are just different than with a C corp.

    For example, unless the laws have changed since I last looked at this, S-corporation income is taxed whether or not the shareholder receives it. So if you reinvest earnings in an S corp, you can get taxed on "phantom income." There are also issues if you change a C corp to an S corp.

    But again, why get involved with any of that? There's absolutely no benefit to any of the more complicated structures for him (as a consultant) at this point, IMHO. When his business becomes wildly profitable, then he can form an LLC or S corp or whatever.

    I do think that your discussion of strategy is a good one to consider for a more profitable business or possibly for one with physical assets.

    Debbie
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  • Profile picture of the author TheWealthSquad
    @Debbie

    Tort protection is a state by state issue. Actually all business protection is a state by state issue As well as how they treat state taxes too.

    I get carried away sometimes discussing business strategy I think every person wants and plans to be become a million dollar profitable business (I am not there yet but working on it - will be 3/4 of the way there next year offline).

    You are correct that a single member LLC and sole prop are treated the same by both the Federal and state govts for purposes of taxes.

    I don't think I actually recommended any type of structure. Just gave him the pros/cons of each.

    Yes you can get taxed on phantom income in an LLC, a S Corp and a sole prop. Even if you reinvest the money, you still pay taxes on the profits.

    Based on what he mentioned, he is probably better off staying as a sole prop and filing Sched C on his taxes with the 1099Misc they will issue him. I would suggest making sure you have a good accounting system (Excel, quickbooks, paper and pen) and keep track of all your expenses. No point in paying taxes on what you don't have too.

    Having a strategy is always a good idea. It makes everything else easier.

    How do you define wildly profitable? I would suggest that if you are clearing 70k or more a year you can have some pretty significant savings using an S-corp or C-Corp/S-Corp combination. Especially when you through in the lower chance of getting audited by our friends at the IRS
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  • Profile picture of the author Easy Cash
    Do you want a business or a job?

    One of the best books you can read is written by Michael Gerber - he formed E-Myth Worldwide
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  • Profile picture of the author Popstar
    @Scott,

    Your last post makes a lot of sense. I don't really think we're in disagreement here on the basic principles.

    As to your question, I was just using the term, "wildly profitable," kind of tongue-in-cheek. I just meant when he's making consistent profits that can sustain a decent lifestyle.

    It probably makes sense to investigate your options at $70,000 per year, but I do know that many LLCs make far more than that and don't change structures. But I don't disagree with your observations.

    By the way, congrats on your financial success. 3/4's of a million is a nice income, whether you receive it through an LLC, S corp, or C corp, lol.

    Debbie
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  • Profile picture of the author bbenson19
    hi yellowboy, we are on the same situation. As such, hire a lawyer,business manager and accountants. These are the 3 people that you need to be your best friends for your business. Arrange a plan with them maybe you can offer web services for them in exchange for adiscount on your business. You need to outsource. Odesk is a good place. PM me if you need other manpower sources that can do anything that you need to be done online. Goodluck!
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  • Profile picture of the author onpurpose
    I agree with the folks that advise meeting with a professional (a CPA) to determine the appropriate entity structure for you - C Corp, S Corp, Sole Proprietor, LLC, etc.

    There are dramatic - tens of thousands of dollars - in differences regarding your taxes, if you reach the $70,000 +/- a year income bracket.

    Once you are set up one way, it can sometimes be very costly to switch to a different entity. Spend a couple of hundred bucks for professional advice. You'll be happy you did.

    Pat
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