Time To Stop Theorizing and Start Engineering!

by BIG Mike Banned 28 replies
#main internet marketing discussion forum #engineering #start #stop #theorizing #time
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  • Profile picture of the author VinceNouvel
    Great Stuff Big Mike.. I am 100% Agree with you, this is what happen when ppl just starting up. Keep buying more and more stuff cause I am thinking that there got to be another theory that will works better for me and never actually done anything.. The key in IM is not just theorizing but start moving ur ass.. and do something, dont just plan them but never actually get any of them done. When you have a doubt on something, never ever trust what you are reading cause they dont 100% can be applied to your niche or business.
    Every niche and business are created different. There are no exact formula or theory that will work. You will know your niche better when you start to engineer and do some experiment..
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    Big Mike,

    Thanks for this. Your post is as usual right on the money. It may have been written for new IMers but it is a reality check for us oldies but goodies as well.

    Keep em coming and I'll keep on reading.

    Thanks Again,
    George Wright
    "The first chapter sells the book; the last chapter sells the next book." Mickey Spillane
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      Yes the key is definitely to learn by taking action.

      Then you won't be wondering what works for you in your niche...you'll know from experience.

      Great post.

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh

      P.S. The most common reason people don't make any money in internet marketing is simply that they never get started.

      They have a whole pile of knowledge but knowledge is useless without action.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
        Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

        The most common reason people don't make any money in internet marketing is simply that they never get started.
        How sadly true. I see it far too often.

        However, just an hour ago I had a Skype chat with someone who took a post I made about small reports and took action. He's well on his way to building a line of products now.

        ACTION: It's what it's all about.

        OK, gotta go get something done.
        Kevin Riley, Kevin Riley Publishing, Osaka, Japan

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        • Profile picture of the author Adrian Abel
          Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

          How sadly true. I see it far too often.

          However, just an hour ago I had a Skype chat with someone who took a post I made about small reports and took action. He's well on his way to building a line of products now.

          ACTION: It's what it's all about.

          OK, gotta go get something done.
          Yup and the Hamster King didn't even charge me for it. What a hamster!
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          • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
            Originally Posted by Adrian Abel View Post

            Yup and the Hamster King didn't even charge me for it. What a hamster!
            Speak of the devil. I was happy to hear from you today. Good to see what you're doing. Too many wannabe marketers fail to realize that there is not even a glimmer of hope of success if they don't take some action -- massive action being preferred.
            Kevin Riley, Kevin Riley Publishing, Osaka, Japan

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            • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
              Massive action is great. Any action is compulsory if you want to make money.

              Think of it this way:

              If you had a job and you never turned up for work how long would you keep getting paid for?

              Even if you spent all that time away from work studying how to do your job better you're still going to get your arse fired.

              It's the same in your internet marketing business.

              You have to DO the work to have any chance of getting paid.

              Kindest regards,
              Andrew Cavanagh
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              • Profile picture of the author JasonKing
                Employees learn to do.

                Employers do to learn.
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                • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                  Big Mike, you write pretty good for a drunken Greek.

                  I'd like to add one more thing to your list, if you don't mind.

                  One thing even engineers can get hung up on is finding "the way", the one and only best way to do something.

                  When I was a practicing engineer, I read a book called "The Goal". It was a fable about a mythical plant manager on the verge of losing his job. He called in a friend to consult, and they started looking for the bottlenecks in production. Fix the bottlenecks, and the amount of product coming through the system increases, either in volume, speed or both.

                  In one instance, their production rate depended on the output of one advanced machine. First they maxed out the usage of the machine, running it as close to 24/7 as they could.

                  Then the consultant noticed another machine, off in a corner and covered in canvas. Wouldn't that machine make the same piece as the advanced one?

                  Yes, but the cost is higher.

                  You would still make a profit, though?


                  Why not bring that machine back online, take the tiny hit in profits, and more than make up the difference in volume?

                  Duh, good idea...

                  Spoiler: at the end of the story, our hero is running the most profitable plant in the country and the CEO has just helicoptered in to discuss putting the hero in charge of production for the whole company...

                  The point of the story is that a marketer may reach a limiting point and stall because they won't use a "lesser", but still effective method in addition to their darling.

                  Organic traffic may be their prime method, but controlled PPC can add profits. Just not at the margins of the organic traffic, so the marketer ignores using PPC, as an example...
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                  • Profile picture of the author Michael Chris
                    Big Mike,

                    Okay, I don't make "friends" lightly. We have had the option for over a month now and I haven't requested one "friend". I had 2 people request, but they befriend everyone... so I declined. (What am I? Cheap? )

                    I have thought about it several times, but never pulled the trigger. Also, I have been thinking... you know, when I do start adding people to my friends... I am going to PM them and tell them why. Well, guess what... I can't PM you, so I am posting here.

                    I am making a friend request because of this post.

                    You can't finish if you never start.

                    Internet Business Is Like An Onion... It Has Many Layers... And Sometimes It Stinks.
                    Cook it for awhile in some nice butter or olive oil and you might be onto something!

                    Money is Attracted to Movement (aka Action)
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    • Profile picture of the author Mad Dawg
      I recently just came to the exact realization you are talking about Big Mike. I spent 4 months dabbling with lots of theories and concepts and making no money.

      Now I've spent a solid 2 months of working on my own product and know I am on the verge of making my short term goals. It really comes down to action and persistence, not theories.
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  • Profile picture of the author Susan Hope
    Brilliant post Mike!

    That really helps to explain things in an easy to understand way and the steps are broken down so neatly - I can see that helping to clear the fog for a lot of newbies and not so newbies (like me LOL).

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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
      So ... is this "Getting Of Your Butts" thing proven, or is it a theory?
      Kevin Riley, Kevin Riley Publishing, Osaka, Japan

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      • Profile picture of the author Thomas
        Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

        So ... is this "Getting Of Your Butts" thing proven, or is it a theory?
        I have a theory about how to prove it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Ephrils
          "That may work in theory, but it'll never work in practice."

          I think a lot of beginners are afraid to take that first step forward and try something. They're afraid they're going to fail and it won't work. So constantly learning becomes the comfort zone.

          Well, I got over that :p I've had so many failed campaigns it's probably pretty embarrassing, but if you don't fail, you won't learn. And if you don't learn you'll never be able to properly apply all that you have been studying. You've got to find a few ways that don't work before you find a few right ways.
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  • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
    Some great ideas Mike.

    This Engineering Approach ( is that TM?) is the way to go.

    I'll just add one thing...

    Switch off the Warrior Forum and just do it. NOW!

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    • Profile picture of the author VinceNouvel
      Yeah my advice for most newbies are always to stay away from forum like WF.. lol
      I don't really mean it Allen
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  • Profile picture of the author Kim Roach
    Good stuff Mike!

    This reminds me of what John Reese says about how today your business is the worst it will ever be. You should continually be in a process of testing your landing page, sales page, emails, etc...

    It's basically the Kaizen principle - the Japanese strategy for continuous improvement.

    There is no magic formula. The true learning is in taking massive action, getting some sort of result, testing those results, tweaking, and repeating the process.

    You'll find that the most successful people in business are those who are committed to taking massive action.
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  • Profile picture of the author virtualpro
    Ok, go to work now.
    I'll be back again next month when I already make a good progress on my project

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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      I'm gonna take Mike's post one step further.

      Let's say I told you that you should write articles and submit them to
      Ezine Articles because you'll get lots of free targeted traffic.

      And let's say I even showed you legitimate screen prints of my EZA account
      and all the article views and clicks I've gotten and all the sales I've
      gotten as a result.

      Guess what?

      It don't mean squat.


      Because too many variables involved.

      The niches I've chosen.
      The quality if the articles.
      The strength of the resource boxes.
      The quality of the squeeze pages.
      The quality of the reviews on my blog.
      The quality of the sales page.
      The demand for the product.

      I could go on and on.

      Nothing works in a vacuum. Everything you do is going to be affected by
      so many things that no one thing is going to be the sole reason for your

      Therefore, you have to test everything you do. Just don't take people's
      words for it. Because John Doe can make millions doing something and
      you could make squat.
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      • WOW Mike, I wish I had this when I got started. Nice step by step blueprint.

        For this very reason, I am averse to coaching programs (I am not saying that all coaches are theorists). I prefer to learn stuff by trial and error. I had joined two coaching programs when I was fairly new to IM. I hate to say it but I think I have learned and earned a lot more from my trial and error experiences. It takes time for sure, but then you are not limited by the opinions of your coaches/gurus.


        P.S. Someday I hope to join your coaching program, Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author dclodge
    Speaking as a true newbie (3 months into IM), I have to agree that too much time can be spent here reading and learning, even dreaming. Instead, more time should be out there getting involved in IM. I find the info in the forums as inspirational and motivating to say the least, so I do think they have merit. I have to remind myself to get on with it - enough reading - back the reality of your own world and the work and time you need to put into IM. I have realized over the last 3 months that it is a LOT of work, even more time taken to get the ball rolling. My ball is still rolling pretty slowly mind you, but continuing to work at it. Thanks for the inspiration, time to turn it into perspiration.....
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    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author dclodge
        Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

        Do it today brother! Go out and at least put up a one page web site - anything to get going. And report back tomorrow with what you did.

        Stay tuned...
        Well I already have a couple of web sites up, maybe that is part of the problem too - spreading myself too thin. One site that I have chosen to concentrate on is HowToCatchMyCheatingHusband.com . (Any and all tips/criticisms appreciated) I looked through CB, found that there were a few products available, did some research on keywords, got a website url, posted some content, and in the process of setting up a signup form. I have one I programmed for another page, so I should be able to just drop that into it.

        Now planning to write about 3 articles a day for the "cheating" site. One down for today, 2 to go.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gunter Eibl
    For most people it is easier to keep on dreaming than facing the fear of failure.

    I'm in this trap too almost every day. I'm dreaming about different ideas and how great they are but when I should sit down and do something about it to make it happen, I'm afraid of doing it. Why? Because taking action could lead to a failure which would also mean my dreams where just that, dreams.

    As long people don't take action they don't have to face the reality that most of their ideas are crap (sorry).

    To get around this problem, the best way is to accept it. It's just a reality that most ideas won't work. So what? Accept that failure is part of every business and that it helps you to find out the things that work.

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  • Profile picture of the author tecHead
    AY YO, Mikey!! Long time no read, bro. Great post!

    Might I add...
    There is something to "putting oneself in creation mode" and utilizing the Universe to fuel your ideas to fruition... but, (as Mike points out) getting stuck in thought paralysis is a dream killer.

    Another point that we should keep in mind is that perfection isn't necessarily necessary to begin with. In all actuality, (IMHO) I doubt that perfection is impossible IF you're true to providing top value to your Customers. Simply because the information you have "today" will be lacking in substance based on what you know next week when you're actively pursuing Customer satisfaction.

    Besides, its always good to retain some stuff for "upgrades", later. Kinna the same concept behind writing one solid piece of content and using segments of it for multiple marketing channels. (Hey, that's a good topic for a contribution post).

    Well, don't wanna steal Mike's thunder, here. Thanks dude for the post.
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  • Profile picture of the author bonafide70
    Taking action is a massive part of getting somewhere for sure... mind you I have spent a lot of time taking action and doing the wrong thing..boy do you learn fast!
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  • Profile picture of the author pvsunrise
    Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

    As I get into coaching more and more, I have begun to see a pattern emerging that has a significant role in holding inexperienced Internet Marketers back from reaching even short-term goals. The more I think about this, the more I see it just about everywhere I go too – especially here in the Warrior Forum.

    The problem as I see it, is that many newcomers to Internet Marketing are getting so hung up on the marketing “Theories” out there that they can’t move forward. Now, the Warrior Forum is a terrific place to discuss theory, but what many fail to realize is that a theory is just that – an unproven idea or concept. They are predictions of what “Might” occur given a controlled set of circumstances.

    What they are not is fact – they are simply opinions that, depending on one’s experience, might be considered “Educated Guesses”. And therein lies the problem – many beginner Internet Marketers don’t have the experience to determine if what they’re being told is actual proven fact or unproven theory being discussed.

    I have lost count of the number of times someone has said to me, “So and so told me to do this, but then this other person said no, do that and yet a third person suggested this and now I’m lost.” And then that person invariably goes on to say that they’ve tried for a year and accomplished nothing. What this amounts to in a nutshell is all talk and no action.

    So, how do you get around a barrier like this? It really boils down to one thing – you need to be the scientist and focus on proving or disproving the theories that are confusing you. The best way to do this in my opinion is to take an “Engineered Approach” to your business.

    Let’s say you want to break into the “Golden Widgets” niche. So you do a little research, write up a short report of about 3 to 5 pages. Then you get a domain, add a squeeze page and give the report away for free. Once you start driving some traffic to it, your conversion rate (number of subscribers versus number of unique visitors) will be an indicator of the effectiveness of your squeeze page.

    If you continually tweak your squeeze page (one thing at a time) and monitor your conversion rate closely, you’ll start gaining some experience as to what does and does not work in that particular niche. Meanwhile, you are actually building a list, rather than just talking about building one.

    Now you move on to the next step – you create an email series and start sending it out to your new list. You monitor your unsubscribe rate to determine whether or not you are meeting their interest. Perhaps you experiment with the frequency of mailing to find the “Sweet Spot” that works best for you.

    At this point, you have a growing list of subscribers who are sticking with you and you are delivering the sort of information they want overall. You are testing and tracking the results of the various things you are doing and slowly but surely refining your process.

    Presumably, at some point, you have either started working on your first product for this niche or identified 3rd party products to promote to it. You start building the “Buzz” by discussing your product, getting feedback from your list. This is important – you will usually get new ideas from the list (if it is a proactive one anyways)

    Incidentally, before you jump into your first product, that list feedback will give you some idea of whether or not it will be a viable product. Once finished, select a handful of your most proactive subscribers and give them review copies. Your goal is to get feedback allowing you to further refine the product itself as well as gain testimonials.

    When you think the time is right, begin promoting your new product to your list. You can experiment with an OTO for example, behind your squeeze page, to determine where your best point of sale is. Maybe you promote an affiliate program for it or offer resale rights at some point.

    What I just described is overly simplistic, but the general idea of an “Engineered Approach” is to take a step, evaluate the results and then move on to the next step after revising the previous one. It is a continuous cycle of planning, acting, checking and improving. At the end of each cycle, you have more data to work with, which is what makes the process work so well.

    And the best thing about it is that you are learning factual information from your process rather than sitting around talking about what “Might” happen. When you set out to do your next squeeze page, now you have a system to repeat the process with. Only this time, as you test and track your results, you will find that very little needs to change in your process as you adapt it to a new niche.

    So get off your butts, stop talking about what may or may not work and just go find out for yourself – you’ll be glad you did!
    The advice to "take massive action" is not very helpful, and yet it is repeated mindlessly. There is a ton of information being sold. Presumably that is because knowledge is somehow important, as well as taking action on it. If there is a glut of information, confusion is inevitable, and therefore there is uncertainty, lack of confidence, and finally paralysis. Suppose I want to get to New York, and I take "massive action" in the direction of Wisconsin. Or suppose I receive 25 apparently--maybe not necessarily really (but that is the whole problem)--conflicting directions. Which one do I take "massive action" with? Of course I can take action and start walking, so that by the time I get to Ohio, I realize I've just wasted a lot of time and energy. Is this a good idea.

    Part of the problem, of course is the sales process, which involves, if not lying, at least putting a lot of lipstick on what are sometimes just pigs. A few marketers can be relied on for a straightforward approach, especially when they situate what they are offering in a broader context, to help the buyer decide if what is being sold is relevant to a given purpose. Not many.

    The experts who tell it like it is: stick to some tried and true fundamentals, learn the essential techniques and skills, don't get distracted with every offer coming down the pike, don't believe in silver bullets, join a group of helpful people, get a trusted mentor, etc., are few.
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    • Profile picture of the author Thomas Belknap
      "Time To Stop Theorizing and Start Engineering!"

      Great, now I have to go to Engineering school? Man, no wonder so many people fail at this internet stuff.
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