by cotum
49 replies
Thanks in large part to GetResponse.

I have a list of nearly 17,000. Most of them are cheap and never buy anything, but over the years I've made a good living selling products from $7 - $77 or so.

e.g. Around Xmas 2012 I sold a $9 ebook to the list. 170 copies sold.

This week I ran a promotion to the list for another book, more focused on my customer base than the Xmas one years ago. It sold 45 copies @ $9. A couple years ago it would have sold at least 75-100 if not more.

This isn't enough to even make a living.

GetResponse blames me for the messages not getting delivered to people's inboxes, but when the mailing goes out I log in to another Gmail account and it says "this message was placed here because getresponse.com is known for spam" or something similar.

???
#business #dying
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    So start another list on another email service.

    How did you generate the current email list, do you have a site?
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  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    "this message was placed here because getresponse.com is known for spam" or something similar.
    I've been using GR for around three years and have never had any spam issues. I always subscribe to my own lists with Gmail addys...never seen that message.
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  • Profile picture of the author cynthiaSEL
    Originally Posted by cotum View Post

    GetResponse blames me for the messages not getting delivered to people's inboxes, but when the mailing goes out I log in to another Gmail account and it says "this message was placed here because getresponse.com is known for spam" or something similar.

    ???
    See if you can get a telephone conversation or chat with someone different. Maybe a supervisor? Or just try 3 different ways and see if you can get somewhere. Talk about your history with them. Share that you subscribe to your own list and that you've not had that happen before. Think about it from their perspective and try to get them to give you a ffew ideas to try.
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    • Profile picture of the author cotum
      Thanks, but I've talked to them many times. They say it's my fault, and that's that.
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      • Profile picture of the author Regional Warrior
        Originally Posted by cotum View Post

        Thanks, but I've talked to them many times. They say it's my fault, and that's that.
        Mate I have a list of over 25K never had any issues , I would check what the other are not mentioning and that is content of the email as that may give you the answer

        Jason
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    This is a toughie - because fear skews your judgment - but nothing outside of you causes you to lose money. You do. Again, it stings. I know. As a guy who struggled financially. For years. But I learned my energy determined how much money I made - or lost - and when I ceased blaming anything but my own money energy (mired in fear, lack and limitation) I made more money.

    Suggestion; spend a few hours in a quiet room. Allow your fears around money to arise. Feel them. Which really stinks and feels highly uncomfortable. But really, feel them.

    This cathartic session clears out some deep deep fears, which helps you see the situation clearly, in the light of truth. You will also make more money after this practice Because as the fear of loss dissolves you allow in more money.

    Ryan
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  • Profile picture of the author wlasikiewicz
    Im glad I've seen this, i almost got a subscription to GetResponse today.
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    • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
      Originally Posted by wlasikiewicz View Post

      Im glad I've seen this, i almost got a subscription to GetResponse today.
      I've had a GetResponse account now for almost 4 years, and I can tell you it's a fantastic service with a ton of great features. They recently rolled out a new marketing automation feature which allows for highly customized segmentation based on a subscriber's behavior. Very cool.

      I would not let this thread stop you from giving them a shot. Just because the OP is having this issue does not mean you will, now or in the future.

      GetResponse and Aweber are both fantastic AR services and I would not hesitate to recommend either. I'm sure most email marketers using one or both of those services would agree.
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      • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
        2 best services I know of. With Mail Chimp coming in 3rd for its simplicity, for email bare bones guys like myself
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  • Profile picture of the author DIABL0
    Do you know the domain makeup of the list?

    Do you test your inbox placement with seed accounts?

    You mentioned testing Gmail, but did you do any tests to see if you could get into the inbox?
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    • Profile picture of the author cotum
      Domain makeup of the list?

      Yes.

      Yes, sometimes it will go to inbox but not usually.
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      • Profile picture of the author DIABL0
        Originally Posted by cotum View Post

        Domain makeup of the list?

        Yes.

        Yes, sometimes it will go to inbox but not usually.
        The breakdown of the list by domain as a percentage of the list / number of users per domain. That way you know what domains are the most important / seed accounts you need and if there is a deliverability issue, how much is it effecting the list overall.

        What seeds do you have and what tests have you done?

        How are your open rates / do you remove unresponsive users?

        If you are convinced the problem is GR, go set up a free trial at Aweber and test it.
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  • Profile picture of the author IMarketers2500
    How long did it take you to develop a list like that?
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    • Profile picture of the author cotum
      10 years or so. Most of it was created between 2006-2010 though.
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      • Profile picture of the author IMarketers2500
        Wow that's great. Any tips for list building?
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
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        Originally Posted by IMarketers2500 View Post

        How long did it take you to develop a list like that?
        Originally Posted by cotum View Post

        10 years or so. Most of it was created between 2006-2010 though.


        I guess you realize 10 years is a long time on the internet and folks can easily stop being interested in a niche.

        So... you haven't added to the list for the last 7 years? That's a long time all by itself.
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        • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          I guess you realize 10 years is a long time on the internet and folks can easily stop being interested in a niche.

          So... you haven't added to the list for the last 7 years? That's a long time all by itself.
          I can easily see that being the reason for the decrease in sales.

          You need to keep in regular contact with your subscribers and you should always be adding as many new subscribers as possible every day.

          If you are not keeping your subs engaged they will quickly forget about you, especially in today's climate where there is more and more competition every day.

          I think if the OP were to create a two-step plan focusing on getting his current subs engaged again and adding new subscribers daily, he would see a slow and steady increase in sales.
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  • Profile picture of the author robofx
    Banned
    If I was on your "list" and got spam from you hawking some absurd, worthless "ebook" I'd hit the "Report Spam and Unsubscribe" button.
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    • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
      Originally Posted by robofx View Post

      If I was on your "list" and got spam from you hawking some absurd, worthless "ebook" I'd hit the "Report Spam and Unsubscribe" button.
      What are you talking about?

      You don't even know what kind of information he is selling.

      Do you have any idea how many thousands of people make a great living selling info products to their list?

      What is the point of building a list in the first place if you are not going to make money from it?

      I am subscribed to hundreds of lists and I get promos for ebooks, software, video courses, WP plugins, etc, every day.

      The OP is running a business, the point of which is to MAKE MONEY.

      If you are one of the hundreds of thousands of folks in the MMO niche it's common practice to build a list of targeted subscribers and market info products and software to them.

      If you're one of the many people who hate that niche then that's your prerogative but you don't need to go off on the OP for doing what he's supposed to be doing, which is SELLING.

      As far as the email delivery problem, all of the major AR providers go through this, especially with Gmail. I don't know the inner workings of email servers and such, but I do know that every few months I have to go into my spam folder because I will notice that I'm not getting emails from some of the marketers I follow. Sure enough, there they are in the spam folder and I have to mark them "not spam." Even then it sometimes takes a while before they start ending up in my inbox again.

      And it's not surprising that the AR company will not admit fault, whether they are at fault or not. If the lifeblood of your company depended on the ability to inbox emails you wouldn't come out and publicly admit you were having problems doing that, either. You can't blame them for that. They are simply protecting their own interests and their business. Personally, I have never had a problem like this but I have seen the messages like the one the OP described in some of the messages I have found in my spam folder, and these emails are often from very popular and successful marketers in my niche. Nobody is immune to it, regardless of list size or success level. One person can sign up and use the AR service to spam people and this can affect lots of other customers of the service, even if they are sending legit emails to people who have opted-in.

      As for the solution, I've found it usually ends up working itself out with time. Whether or not this is due to something the AR company does or not I have no idea. I'll openly admitted I have very little knowledge in that area, and that's why I use an AR service and don't run my own email server.

      You can also make sure you are not using spam trigger words in your email copy, and also make sure the "from" email you are using is your own domain and not a Gmail, Yahoo, Hotmail address, etc. If you are using an email address with your own domain name, make sure your domain name has not been blacklisted. If it has, purchase a new domain name that is not blacklisted and set up an email address on it to use.

      I'm sorry but I find it a little harsh that you have absolutely no idea what the OP is emailing people about, and you have no idea what eBook he is offering. If he is making hundreds of sales or even 45 sales from a single broadcast, obviously it's something his subscribers want.

      I'm not sure how you are able to make the assumptions you have made with absolutely no knowledge of the circumstances.
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      • Profile picture of the author DeanJames
        nicheblogger75 - I could not agree with you MORE!

        Providing the content/material is 'congruent' for the niche they are marketing to, it's totally up to the list owner what they send to their list.
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      • Profile picture of the author robofx
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    • Profile picture of the author Regional Warrior
      Originally Posted by robofx View Post

      If I was on your "list" and got spam from you hawking some absurd, worthless "ebook" I'd hit the "Report Spam and Unsubscribe" button.
      I think he would be quite glad you are not taking up space on his list, but one he wished he could would be oxygen

      Jason
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  • Profile picture of the author terra cotta
    Sound strange...The only thing I can do is rephrase my subject and run a spam test before I hit the send button. The website is located here webkingsolutions com / free-spam-checker-tool
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    • Profile picture of the author DIABL0
      Originally Posted by terra cotta View Post

      Sound strange...The only thing I can do is rephrase my subject and run a spam test before I hit the send button. The website is located here webkingsolutions com / free-spam-checker-tool
      Most spam checker tools are nothing more than a standard install of SpamAssassin. Also, keepin mind that the domains that you are mailing to have to be using it for it to be a truly valid test. However, it is certainly better than nothing.

      Large domains have their own anti-spam solution. So you ideally need to have seed accounts and send a message to them and check your inbox placement.

      If you mail is going to the spam folder, you need to look at the following...

      Back-end setup: spf, dkim, rdns, etc...
      IP/ domain reputation: any domain / IP that is associated with the mailing.
      Content: everything in the message body, subject line, including your template.

      You need to test everything and isolate the problem and fix it.
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    2 things:

    1. Aweber will get you better open rates so try them and transfer all your leads there.

    2. If you are selling a product that gets you a $9 commission, stop it now. What are you thinking? You can and will go broke like that. Are you not earning more commissions once a person buys the $9 worth of product?
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Chicas
    I Just bailed out of GetResponse. I'll be honest with everyone...

    The open rate for my Internet marketing lists was awful, but it was pretty good for non marketing related lists (or so it seemed). I don't really care about this because what really got me to move and cancel my account today was this...

    I had it with their customer service. Out of nowhere they wanted me to pay a penalty fee and I would have paid the extra $30 bucks but when I emailed customer service... they couldn't give me a straight answer... 10 emails later... I was done.

    Not the first time this has happened to me, and their platform is supper buggy. I no longer trust their "open rate" numbers, or unopens - or any other numbers. I need a system that is reliable.
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    • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
      Originally Posted by Chris Chicas View Post

      I Just bailed out of GetResponse. I'll be honest with everyone...

      The open rate for my Internet marketing lists was awful, but it was pretty good for non marketing related lists. I don't really care about this because what really got me to move and cancel my account today was this...

      I had it with their customer service. Out of nowhere they wanted me to pay a penalty fee and I would have paid the extra $30 bucks but when I emailed customer service... they couldn't give me a straight answer... 10 emails later... I was done.

      Not the first time this has happened to me, and their platform is supper buggy. I no longer trust their "open rate" numbers, or unopens - or any other numbers. I need a system that is reliable.
      A "penalty fee?" I've never heard of such a thing.

      I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, but I'm curious as to why a reputable company would employ a tactic like that.

      Could you elaborate on this a bit? What was the "penalty fee" for?
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Chicas
        Nicheblogger,

        One day I logged into my Get Response account and on my dashboard it said that I could no longer add any emails. When inquired they told me I needed to upgrade my account which is funny because...

        As my list grew to thousands, I was already paying incrementally, just like AWS charges you as you grow, so I was paying as my list scaled, and I payed the accurate amount for the number of subscribers.

        After a few emails the word was that I needed to upgrade plans to reflect my list number size... which I tried to do but I got this message:

        "By clicking the "Upgrade" button, you agree to be charged $66.50
        Please note that the charge is the difference between your current balance and new package rate. During the last check we've noticed that you exceeded your plan. 24 days ago your list size was 4,534. The fee for exceeding your list is*$24.00"

        Keep in mind that I had been paying them for over a year for all the subscribers I already had.

        So this penalty fee was on top of what I was already paying for the right amount of subscribers.

        Their message is confusing and it doesn't state if it's a one time penalty fee or recurring every month. After exchanging an additional 7 or so emails back and forth - nobody could give me a straight answer. Not getting a straight response is what really irked me - I would have just paid the fee if it was a one time thing just to get over it - so I can't understand why they wouldn't just state this clearly.

        It was just very frustrating, so I bailed.

        Also... after years of having them... I simply don't trust the numbers that they give me (open rates, subscribers, etc.) Sometimes I noticed that the numbers just didn't add up. I use a middle interface (kajabi) to capture all leads, and GR did not accurately reflect those other numbers.

        Anyhow, I also have other email services with my other lists/niches and those systems are not as buggy as GetResponse . I decided to move all my Get Response lists to Active Campaign and I am happy with their interface and advance capabilities that are not super buggy.


        Originally Posted by nicheblogger75 View Post

        A "penalty fee?" I've never heard of such a thing.

        I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, but I'm curious as to why a reputable company would employ a tactic like that.

        Could you elaborate on this a bit? What was the "penalty fee" for?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dawood
    sounds strange.
    i have never got any problem with getresponse
    till today...
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    Maybe I'm missing something guys but what about the saying that it's never the tools but the craftsmen who uses the tools

    Hey; we all resonate with certain tools. I get it. We vibe with features or may spot some patterns as far as open rates and then, we deduce things. But in the end if you write really really really helpful content and grow your list through hyper quality sources - running a valued-packed, stupid helpful, mega resource like a Wordpress blog - the quality of your leads rockets upwards and yep, they will be so hungry to get your emails that they will click and open within seconds of receiving what you have to offer.

    Perhaps if you're dealing with a hellishly low quality free autoresponder service you can do all things right on your end and then, see those click and open rates still drop, but when you are dealing with the big 3 or big 4 or just a handful of established email solutions, it's almost always about the craftsman, and not the tools, when it comes to business dying.

    Just had to share because you make so much more money online when you own what's happening versus blaming a tool. Kinda like being angry at a hammer when you bash your thumb with it

    Ryan
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  • Profile picture of the author iwantbreak
    If you are not gaining enough success with Get Response, i recommend you to switch to either Mail Chimp or Aweber and hope you get success with either of them or probably both...
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  • Profile picture of the author Kes Writes
    Mail their customer care and explain in detail what is happening with their service you're using with pictorial evidence. Both of you should be able to fashion a solution.
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  • Profile picture of the author boblyle
    Maybe this video will help you and many others who are having a "deliverability "issue. https://www.facebook.com/TonyReedOfficial/videos/926338357507109/
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  • Profile picture of the author Dimitri Visser
    Realise that the list you had 5 years ago can change in time. Maybe some adresses are not used anymore etc. People also get smarter... There are lots of ebooks. You really need something special to get attention. So maybe it's not about getresponse but about your aging list, competing products/ebooks etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author wartest
    Hmmmm. Haven't heard something like this from others.
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  • Profile picture of the author amuro
    That brings me to one question.

    Where do you get your traffic from?

    And how exactly do you build rapport with that traffic?

    Here is the thing, guys though you may agree or disagree.

    There are 3 types of traffic.

    Besides free and paid traffic which you heard most marketers talked about, there is cultivated traffic as well.

    What do I mean by that?

    Cultivated traffic is a group of people who already knew, liked and trusted you and will buy whatever you recommend.

    And the best way to have that type of traffic is either through Facebook whereby you joined groups of your interest, posted valuable content and then invited those members who liked your posts or comments to join your own group you can set up on your own.

    Then you continue to educate them and then make an offer that can help them make a difference to their marketing and lives.

    You can also do the same through blog commenting, forum posting and video marketing on Youtube as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author close2study
    make a new email and use alternate messaging and make a new way to messaging
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  • Profile picture of the author brookeharper08
    This might just be an isolated case.
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  • Profile picture of the author cjsparacino123
    take what you know and move on and make your real fortune, then invest it so you dont have to do anything anymore
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  • Profile picture of the author fratt55
    hey there
    Great question...
    your business is not dying..you're still getting sales
    your problem is...
    you need to tweak your business as follows:
    continue to mail to that same list at the lower price
    BUT
    find another niche with a nigher price point..you may have to find another list for this niche with this higher price point..now
    you mail to your old list and to this new list
    and your profit margin will quadtripple
    ok
    talk soon
    sam f
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  • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
    Originally Posted by cotum View Post

    e.g. Around Xmas 2012 I sold a $9 ebook to the list. 170 copies sold.

    This week I ran a promotion to the list for another book, more focused on my customer base than the Xmas one years ago. It sold 45 copies @ $9. A couple years ago it would have sold at least 75-100 if not more.
    Originally Posted by cotum View Post

    Most of it was created between 2006-2010 though.
    I'm surprised you even pulled off that amount of sales. If anything, this is a testimonial in favor of GetResponse since it was able to inbox a promotional message to that many people. And considering the age of that list, well, that's another big surprise.

    Emails have a lifespan. Not everyone keeps an email at the same provider forever. Plus, some mailboxes become abandoned and eventually fill up causing hard/soft bounces. It's called Email Churn and it eats up your list by 25-30% every year.

    Here's some good reading courtesy of -you guessed it- GetResponse:

    https://blog.getresponse.com/email-l...hurn-rate.html

    TLDR: You can't expect the same click/buy rate as 2012 since emails go bad over time.
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    i do not like GR, but does not mean do not use them.

    Email them and tell them you problems. I have heard of this before, and its not common but.

    You biz is not dying, just keep getting leads, and test other things.

    You will run into these problems as a business owner, I have a 6 figure a year business, and its more just the niggling problems, like this that you can clear quickly.

    Try other things, so your outreach and bounce rates are good.

    Just so you know I switched to AWEBER and MAILCHIMP and TRAFFIC WAVE....and never had your problems.

    I would not use traffic wave, im still testing, but AW and MC did not have the problems you have. It has to do with the deliverablity, and GR has had these problems in the past, and I heard a few bigger marketers, like millionaire marketers moving away from them.
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  • Profile picture of the author cotum
    Thanks for the responses, I may address them in more detail later.

    Today I ran a special - 15 books for $99.

    This special sold 19 last summer, 15 this past winter, and ZERO so far now.

    I took the advice of someone in the thread and used my own domain name for the "from" field. GetResponse also says this helps. It didn't help enough:

    Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
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  • Profile picture of the author Eduard Stinga
    GetResponse is known to have quite a bad deliverability. You can try other services like MarketHero for example, has INSANE inbox deliverability.

    It's also a good practice to have a separate email address that's brand new, where you send your email as a test, to see if it reaches inbox or spam folder. It's important never to open the email using this address, so it acts solely on the spam filter, no on your engagement with the sender. Depending on the content of the email, it can be marked as spam quite easily, you only need a few spammy keywords, you'd be surprised.

    There are also other factors that have been mentioned before, such as list age and the fact that more and more people send emails, so it's harder to fight for attention there.
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  • Profile picture of the author grandetourer
    Doesn't Getresponse have a little meter that tells you if your email is to spammy? What does it tell you?
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    • Profile picture of the author DIABL0
      Originally Posted by grandetourer View Post

      Doesn't Getresponse have a little meter that tells you if your email is to spammy? What does it tell you?
      All the spam checkers do is test the message using SpamAssassin. If the domain you are sending to doesn't use it, then the score is kind of irrelevant, but better than nothing.

      Ideally, you want to set up seed accounts and send a message and to test the inbox placement.

      https://www.warriorforum.com/main-in...l#post11091720

      I have little doubt that the problem the OP was having was that he was getting spam complaints from Gmail users. Gmail doesn't report complaints. So the ESP has no way to remove them and getting rid of them isn't that simple.

      He is probably talking about seeing something like this...

      Why is this message in Spam? We've found that lots of messages from bounce.mail-rf773.getresponse.com are spam.
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      • Profile picture of the author Raphael Min
        All the contents you've posted have been very useful. thank you very much for that.

        I'm having the same issue at the moment. It's throwing the same exact msg w/ email address (bounce.mail-rf773.getresponse.com). im wondering if it's because GR put me on some sort of a shared IP/email? what's the best way to solve this problem? is my domain toasted? i was thinking of moving to a new domain with fresh new email address -> and move to aweber or something.

        thanks bro!

        "Why is this message in Spam? We've found that lots of messages from bounce.mail-rf773.getresponse.com are spam."
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        • Profile picture of the author DIABL0
          Originally Posted by Raphael Min View Post

          All the contents you've posted have been very useful. thank you very much for that.

          I'm having the same issue at the moment. It's throwing the same exact msg w/ email address (bounce.mail-rf773.getresponse.com). im wondering if it's because GR put me on some sort of a shared IP/email? what's the best way to solve this problem? is my domain toasted? i was thinking of moving to a new domain with fresh new email address -> and move to aweber or something.

          thanks bro!

          "Why is this message in Spam? We've found that lots of messages from bounce.mail-rf773.getresponse.com are spam."
          I have actually only seen this once and it was just a couple weeks ago.

          Someone set up a new GR account and that's what they got when they sent to Gmail.

          They set up a new domain and the same thing happened.

          They set up an account with a different ESP and using the same exact domains the mail went inbox.

          Before moving to another ESP I would ask GR to change the IP block that your mail is going out over. You could also set up a new domain and confirm that it's not your domain causing the problem.

          If they won't change the IP block and the new domain doesn't work, then I would move.

          Technically you could also just move your Gmail contacts if you are getting good deliverability with other domains. Not being able to inbox Gmail can be a huge problem, as most marketers list are probably 50% or more Gmail.
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          How to Build LARGE EMAIL LISTS on a Budget and MONETIZE Like a PRO
          18 Years Exp . . . . . . . . . . . . Email - CPA - PPL
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    Originally Posted by cotum View Post

    This isn't enough to even make a living.
    Email marketing aside... how else are you generating revenue within your list? Do you have a continuity program? Do you offer coaching or consulting? Seminars? High ticket products? What is your average conversion rate on your frontend and backend?
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