How can I 'protect' an idea ?

10 replies
This is not strictly IM but your advice might help others in a
similar IM situation.


Have you seen the TV ads for Gocompare.com ?

They use a song from the first World War "Over There" and
replace the lyrics with "Go Compare"

If someone had thought of that song for the ad and
approached Go Compare with the idea would they have been
able to get some reward ?

The reason I ask is that I've thought of an old song, very
popular with a catchy theme, which would be a great match
for a product. This product is very popular and supplied by
a number of manufacturers (not sure how many).

So I wondered the best way to approach these manufacturers
and somehow get the best deal without having my idea poached.


Harvey
#idea #protect
  • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
    Hi Harvey

    It's a very interesting and thought-provoking post. I am sure you are aware you can't copyright an idea. I have had a few of mine 'pinched' over the years. I once had an idea to incorporate lighting within Christmas trees. I sent it to a company who were supposedly looking for inventors - just to test the water. I actually considered it to be one of my weaker ideas.

    Anyway, the following year, the market was swamped with Christmas trees made from fibre-optics. It could have been just coincidence of course after all Leibnitz and Newton both invented calculus; and both Wallace and Darwin conceived of Natural Selection.

    Do you remember ... 'a Mars a day helps you work, rest and play' ? I was on a writing course once when one of the delegates said he'd written the words and was never paid a penny by the company. Of course, I have no idea whether that was true or not, but I have no reason to doubt the claim.

    Anyway, to your question. Here's what I would do ....

    1. Document the idea in full.
    2. Send the document to yourself Recorded Delivery
    3. Approach the company - in writing - explaining you have a great idea that you are willing to share with them on the understanding that if they use it, they would pay you a sum that you negotiate.
    4. Get their agreement to your proposal in writing.
    5. Show them the idea.
    6. Get paid.

    If they don't pay, write again letting them know that you have the following ....

    1. Documented proof (with datestamp {Recorded Delivery})that you are the originator of the idea.
    2. Written confirmation of their acceptance of the terms

    The Recorded Delivery package should only ever be opened in a court of law should it go that far. The object is to not go that far, of course, but to let hem know that you have solid evidence should the matter need to be progressed further.

    One last tip: I learned from an expert source that an envelope with a strip of cellotape across the seal is almost impossible to open and reseal, so use that method of sealing the envelope. That way you have virtually 100% proof that you are the originator.

    Good luck with it!

    Will
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    • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
      Thanks for your answers so far.

      Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye View Post

      Since your idea is for what is basically a novelty song
      knocking-off an old popular song, I recommend developing
      your song and recording it.

      Then copyright your music.

      Then approach the company with your song.
      I suppose ideally this would be the most foolproof approach
      but I don't really want to go to that extent for something
      that might never take off.

      I'd probably go this route ...

      Originally Posted by Will Edwards View Post

      1. Document the idea in full.
      2. Send the document to yourself Recorded Delivery
      3. Approach the company - in writing - explaining you have a great idea that you are willing to share with them on the understanding that if they use it, they would pay you a sum that you negotiate.
      4. Get their agreement to your proposal in writing.
      5. Show them the idea.
      6. Get paid.
      However I think the best way to start would be to write to
      the companies first just to sound them out on the sort of
      sums they might pay and then proceed accordingly.

      Harvey
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      • Profile picture of the author Sean Roberts
        "The myth that an idea can be protected frequently stems from what many call the "poor man's copyright." With the poor man's copyright you simply mail your work to yourself and that is believed to somehow protect the idea. It is absolutely critical for everyone to understand that mailing your idea to yourself will do absolutely nothing to give you protection. If you do have original expression that is fixed in a tangible medium of expression it is copyrighted immediately, but not federally registered. All that mailing your work to yourself will prove is that you had it as of a certain date, and that is only assuming there is a postmark on the envelope (which does not always happen) and the envelope is not opened. It provides no rights whatsoever."

        - from this site: Can Ideas Be Protected or Patented? | IPWatchdog.com | Patents & Patent Law

        It's pretty interesting, you might want to check it out.
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        • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
          Originally Posted by Sean Roberts View Post

          "The myth that an idea can be protected frequently stems from what many call the "poor man's copyright." With the poor man's copyright you simply mail your work to yourself and that is believed to somehow protect the idea. It is absolutely critical for everyone to understand that mailing your idea to yourself will do absolutely nothing to give you protection. If you do have original expression that is fixed in a tangible medium of expression it is copyrighted immediately, but not federally registered. All that mailing your work to yourself will prove is that you had it as of a certain date, and that is only assuming there is a postmark on the envelope (which does not always happen) and the envelope is not opened. It provides no rights whatsoever."

          - from this site: Can Ideas Be Protected or Patented? | IPWatchdog.com | Patents & Patent Law

          It's pretty interesting, you might want to check it out.

          That's why you also need their agreement in writing to your terms as I said above. The envelope (if done as I have outlined) provides proof that you had the idea in advance of its commercial use by the company.

          The agreement in writing is what will get you paid. The evidence is simply that - your recourse to action - which, of course, you do not intend to use. You simply intend to let the company in question know about it should the need arise.

          I am not saying the above method is foolproof. But, I believe it's your best shot at this.

          Will
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          • Profile picture of the author SageSound
            The answer to the question, "How can I 'protect' and idea?" is ... keep it a secret. Make everybody you discuss it with sign a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) and keep it under wraps.

            The laws only protect "embodiments" of ideas (patents) and "expressions" of ideas (copyrights). There are also "design patents" and some more specialized things, like ways to protect the photographic images used to make integrated circuits. But I don't really think that's what you're asking about.

            As alluded to earlier, there's an apparent "law of the Universe" that says "when an idea is ripe, it is given multiple births". Most inventions have multiple inventors, but only one is recognized as "THE inventor". The rest get to complain that he stole their idea! ;-)

            Originally Posted by Will Edwards View Post

            That's why you also need their agreement in writing to your terms as I said above. The envelope (if done as I have outlined) provides proof that you had the idea in advance of its commercial use by the company.

            The agreement in writing is what will get you paid. The evidence is simply that - your recourse to action - which, of course, you do not intend to use. You simply intend to let the company in question know about it should the need arise.

            I am not saying the above method is foolproof. But, I believe it's your best shot at this.

            Will
            Contrary to popular beliefs, a "poor man's copyright" gives you no "recourse to action" in the USA. In fact, it doesn't appear to give you anything in legal terms.

            I dunno about Copyright laws in the UK, but in the USA the copyright laws are pretty straightforward: before you can prosecute someone for copyright infringement, you absolutely MUST show you have registered the copyright with the appropriate agency (Library of Congress, I believe).

            Stated another way, if you don't have a certified copyright registration, you cannot file an infringement action. The court will dismiss your action.

            Also, as far as I know, the "first to file" gets the nod by the courts.

            So if I were going to approach a company with an idea for a jingle, and I seriously believed they'd buy into it, I'd go to the trouble of filing a registration for the "lyrics" and possibly for the "score" (tune) with the LoC. That way, if the company chose to "steal" it, I'd have solid legal grounds to file an infringement action against them should they use it.

            Now, if it were a patent, you could possibly use something like that to help demonstrate "prior art", which could bust a patent infringement suit filed against YOU.

            But for copyrights, it's of no importance who came up with the first "expression in a tangible medium" of an idea. It's the "expression" that's copyrighted anyway, not the idea.
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  • Profile picture of the author Danny Cutts
    my dad invented the solphadine slogon

    "hits pain where it hurts"

    However he got paid a bit I think ==== didnt get head aches for years!!

    Danny
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  • Profile picture of the author horatiob
    I would advise that you see a business adviser.

    However, if pushed for time i would write a letter and send it recorded delivery to yourselk and not open it. Include details of your product, marketing plans (who
    you will approach - manufacturers, etc).

    The letter proves you are the owner of the idea because it is date marked and it could be used in a court of law.

    I hope this proves useful.

    Horatio
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  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    Since your idea is for what is basically a novelty song
    knocking-off an old popular song, I recommend developing
    your song and recording it.

    Then copyright your music.

    Then approach the company with your song.

    Ownership of an idea is more ephemeral than proof that
    you actually developed the idea, showed it to a company,
    and they blatantly stole it from you.

    There was a film that came out last year about the
    long lawsuit by the guy who invented the variable-speed
    windshield wiper. It took about 30 years but I think he
    finally got a 20 million dollar settlement with GM and
    a public admission that they stole the concept after
    rejecting it when he, an inventor, brought it to them.

    With an invention you make a model that works, and
    if that's not feasible you file patents for the design.

    With a song, you've got to publish. Easier to record it
    than publish it as sheet music probably, but in the
    law probably either form is acceptable.

    I'm not a lawyer or anything. I've just observed a bit
    about how lawsuits over musical idea go.
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  • Profile picture of the author Killer Joe
    Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

    So I wondered the best way to approach these manufacturers and somehow get the best deal without having my idea poached.
    Harvey,

    The gatekeeper in this situation will be the Ad Agency that handles the account for the MFR. Call the MFR and find out who that is. They may have an internal markting department, but their media buys will be handled by an outside agency.

    You already have the song in mind, it's in the public domain, what makes it a valuable idea, at least where you're concerned, is the jingle. Just suggesting they use the tune is not generally worth much compensation. If you can come up with catchy lyrics, you can put it together in a video and then pitch it.

    Be prepared to encounter complete rejection. If your idea is good you will need to get it past the bruised egos who didn't think of it. Those people get paid good money to come up with ideas, and the NIH (not invented here) syndrome is more powerful than you would imagine.

    It's best to keep in mind that you have nothing to lose by trying to sell the idea. If it works out, great. If it doesn't, no sweat, move on. Fortunatley for you I'm sure you must know one or two very successful copywriters who work at that level of marketing (I'm making an assumption here). Ask for their guidence, surely they know how hard the push will be.

    Make the journey a fun one.

    KJ
    Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
      Originally Posted by Killer Joe View Post

      Be prepared to encounter complete rejection. If your idea is good you will need to get it past the bruised egos who didn't think of it. Those people get paid good money to come up with ideas, and the NIH (not invented here) syndrome is more powerful than you would imagine.
      The exact argument put forward to me by the wise Martin Avis of KickStart Newsletter fame who was formerly in advertising.

      Harvey
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