Paypal dispute - what should I have done ?

It might depend on the amount of the dispute, but to be honest if I ever get a dispute, if it is just a small amount, I will just refund them and let it go.

If it is a lot and they have definitely received it, then I might fight the dispute. It would really depend on the amount of the dispute. I don't think I'd have given a fake tracking id though as that could come back to get you.

If you're comments explain it, then you should be ok. Just make sure that the amount they are disputing is worth the hassle.

Often with digital products, Paypal will side with the seller, so I hope you do ok with it.

I had the same issue. They wanted a tracking code, but it was a digital delivery.

I just entered a random number and then wrote the reason (it being a digital delivery) in the notes section.

I also showed them email proof that the product was received.

I ended up winning the dispute.

Have everyone opt-in before they see your download page... this way you can show paypal their ip address, time stamp, name, and whatever else... Then explain you have a digital product that is downloadable in a members only area and whatever other details you want to give... This usually does the trick.

Hi Harvey,

Just refund not worth the hassle. Was it a clickbank item, if so paypal should not have asked for a tracking number.

And are you sure the email is from PayPal - Just a thought.

Andrew

Ah, they've initiated an unauthorised transaction dispute.

In short, you've got very, very little chance of winning. Sorry to be blunt.

Since it's an intangible asset, and since this person is claiming they were hacked hence *they* didn't buy the item (but a 'hacker' did), PayPal will definitely side with them unless you have a tracking number showing you've sent out stock. But since it's an intangible asset, you won't have sent out physical stock nor will you have a tracking number.

All you can try doing is add in the notes section things like:

* The date of the purchase

* The buyer's IP address (with hostname) along with times/dates that they last visited your site (look at the access logs if needed)

* Mention that they created an affiliate account. Give an affiliate link if possible.

* Give their username

* Give the e-mail address/Apache access log detail showing that the product (via e-mail or via a link on the download page, etc) was sent out and downloaded/used

Basically just show that your product *was* used, it's the only hope you had.

I recently had a spammer sign-up to my host. They signed up, and tried to send out 1,000s of unsolicited e-mails (obviously, though, we have measures in place to prevent spammers from doing this, so only a fraction went through). They then tried to do a chargeback on me.

I given the above information (so IP addresses, proof that hosting was given, that a domain was ordered through us, etc) and the CC company (and PayPal) sided with me. Was still shocked at that - the spammers nearly always win. Plus they paid something like $30 (with the domain) for a higher-quality hosting package of ours, to try and look inconspicuous! (Scammers -$30, Tristan Perry +$30 lol )

But this is quite rare. Plus they didn't do an "unauthorised" dispute, meaning I didn't have to give a tracking number.

Sometimes you can fight a PayPal dispute, but the "unauthorised" ones are next-to-impossible to fight since the account holder says they were hacked.

When you go to file an unauthorised dispute, PayPal ask for some information from you and then do an (I believe) automatic check on your account to see which IP addresses have accessed your account.

If they see (say) 5 logins from a USA-based IP, and then one from a (say) non-USA-based IP, they'll take that as enough proof that a hack may have taken place (even though, of course, you can just use a proxy server to make it seem like you're in a different location).

The fact that this dispute has gone through and you've heard about it means that PayPal have checked the IP addresses and have judged that a 'hack' has taken place. So, unfortunately, I don't think you have much chance in this case.

But give it a try, show that your services/products were used, and just wish for the best. PayPal disputes are annoying things, and you can sometimes fight them.

Harvey you did the right thing...

And the above poster is totally wrong, it will be 99.99% sure to suceed
with paypal if its a digitally delivered product and you respond you will almost always win the dispute.

I also give them login details, IP address etc but its not compulsary to do that, the only time you might lose this is if they used their credit card and not their paypal account.

Other than that my policy is...

If they ask for a refund in the proper way IE by going to my support desk they are 99% sure of getting it... If they do an unauthorised transaction dispute with paypal thats tantamount to accusing me of theft and fraud, so they are 99% sure of never getting the refund.

Every one has to be disputed or you are admitting you broke into their paypal account and stole their money.

Please be certain of the fact that paypal will never refund an unauthorised transaction dispute for a digitally delivered product, unless its a CC chargeback in which case they are subject to the CC company decision (though they will fight it for you if you dispute it)

I have never lost a paypal dispute yet, if i give them the customer details etc in my database (bear in mind i run membership sites, so i have a record of times logged in etc and the address and email of the user)

Robert

Agree ... the "I didn't authorize this purchase" disputes are impossible to win.

Dear customer.

It has come to our attention that someone has illegally used your paypal account with the ip xx.xx.xx.xx to steal secure content from our server

This IP belongs to: (ISP Details)

We are pursuing a fraud investigation and will be asking the ISP in question to provide usage records to the police so that we may consider criminal download fraud charges against the person who used your paypal account illegally.

If you have any information regarding this case please don't hesitate to contact me.

Respectfully
Tara Gillies
Fraud Investigator



I actually send letters to all the ISPs of people who charge back. Sometimes the person contacts me with an apology and pays me back after their ISP sends them a nasty letter. You see download fraud is against most ISP's TOS.

I know all the just give move on with business lines and I see the logic but when someone rips me off something primal takes over and I just want to make them see they are dirty theives.

I just had a warrior do this to me and he has posts here. Scammers are all around us but I have their IP's and proof of download.

My experience is a little different as all my PayPal sales are subscriptions with a free one month trial so it is hard to make anyone believe after a whole month that the product was unfit, or that you didn't get it.

I mostly get unauthorised use of account or unfit for purpose disputes. I have found that for unauthorised use of account if I don't reply it falls in my favour. I found this out by accident. I was too busy to take care of it, PP said I had 7 days. After 4 days email from PP saying no evidence of unauthorised access. Happens every time.

Having said that, if they contact me directly and say sorry I goofed, forgot to cancel my sub, I just refund. Always.

Afterthought: If your PP button has a url in it for redirecting the customer after payment, and this url is a download page, PP can verify this. They can see that non-delivery is an impossibility.