Those of you struggling for offline clients!!

by Khurram Zeb 83 replies
I do not normally post a lot on this forum because I like to take the approach of a student. But I have been doing something offline for a while now and making a descent income from it.

It all started when I bought a product on offline income through IM. I never did follow the steps as exactly outlined in the book because I saw some obvious flaws.

Those of you who are in the game will know what I am talking about. Others will dismiss this post as BS. Do whatever you want. It is about time I gave back to the warrior forum.

The problem with most offline money making ebooks is the way the authors tell you to basically cold call the prospect and sell them on the idea of increasing business through the internet.

Here are a few problems with this approach:

- Why the hell would they ever trust you? you could be a snake oil salesman for all they know.
- You are trying to get them to do something they never thought about.

Those 2 above are tough to get past. So i decided to take the past of least resistance. Here is what you are gonna do and I am not BSinng you when I say making 2k+ a month is within 1 month of your reach by working maybe 10 hours a week.

First off all, lets brain storm. Who would your ideal client be?

My ideal client is someone who has already done some work to get online but is not making much sales. They are aware of the potential of IM but need some guidance. Where do I find these people?

Do I go on the internet and look for websites on the 10th page of google and ring them? NO thats still cold calling and believe me, ITs TOUGH

I want a situation where I am socially proofed to the client before hand. Here is how you achieve this :

- You look for small business web development companies in your area. You know the ones that that make small 4-10 page websites for local business and charge like 200-500 bucks.

- You look for freelance web developers in your area.

Do you see the difference between "hi, i m xxx and i do seo and generate sales " VS a client who is already paying to get a website done and he gets told " we have a contract with a person who does seo, autoresponders, conversion tracking and can setup an affiliate program if you are inclined to do so"

I shit you not, this way I have personally never cold called a client. They always ring me.
Now you get on the fricking phone and ring these companies and freelancers. OK. But this time you are not selling anything. You are offering them 20-25% of all work they pass your way. TBH, I have never even offered any percentage to people who pass work my way( I am socially very savvy) but you may initially have to.

What work you ask? It is almost always going to be SEO, autoresponders and improving conversions. In some cases you might have to setup an affiliate program. But obviously your rates go up accordingly.

Many of you may not know this but the biggest complaint that people have when they get websites made is "No one is coming to to my site". Trust me, I have made a couple of really good friends who are freelance web developers and this is the most common thread.

Now that your head is in the right place, here are some tips:

- Overquote. You have to because from experience, they always want more things done and this way, you can do those things for free and they will love you for it.

- Do not make a habit of getting on the phone with clients. If they ring you, never answer your phone. Soon they will get used to emailing you. Thanks Tim Ferris for that one!!

- Overdeliver. This goes without saying but I thought I would mention it. If you do not do the job, you wont get refferals.

- never charge less then 500 dollars a month and always have time frames. i.e 500 dollars a month for 4 months would get your site with xxx keywords on the front page and i will set you up an autoresponder.

And here is the kicker. You ready for this?

OUTSOURCE EVERYTHING YOU CAN!!

Outsource everything you can

-Jrox charge 99 dollars to setup their affiliate software and integrate it
- with seo, linkvana is your friend. use UAW, SYA if you have to
- get articles written from this forum.

Right now, I spend about 25% of the money that comes in on outsourcing and pocket the 75% and reduce my workload by about 80%

Ask any questions you have in the thread and I will answer you.
#main internet marketing discussion forum #clients #local sem #local seo #offline #struggling
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  • Profile picture of the author Seattle Mike
    Excellent plan. Thank you.

    One question, did you set up a website specifically offering this or just show them some of your other websites? How did you demonstrate your abilities?

    Ok 3 questions, Did you collect checks or do they pay you via paypal?
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    • Profile picture of the author Khurram Zeb
      Originally Posted by deverell View Post

      Excellent plan. Thank you.

      One question, did you set up a website specifically offering this or just show them some of your other websites? How did you demonstrate your abilities?

      Ok 3 questions, Did you collect checks or do they pay you via paypal?
      I do not even have a website offering my services. I am not kidding man. But i do have my other affiliate sites/ content sites as proof (I have only ever had to show one of my sites once. Once you get results, you will never be questioned again. Just 2 people reffering you will keep you busy in terms of work.)

      Learn the basic lingo to sound like you know what you are doing. Infact, you have to know what you are doing. I am pretty good with SEO so thats always my main focus when talking to clients. If you are a good content writer, focus on the autoresponder messages. You get the drift.

      Payment only through cheque but paypal is fine I guess. But you have to charge monthly to make sure you do not get burned. Any payment is always net-30 for me. If i start work on the 1st of jan, first payment is on the 1st of FEB and so on. Send a monthly update report. This could be as simple as google analytics pdf report that you can generate easily or more involved like a seo report of keyword positions between the 1st of the month and 31st of the same month. I use webceo for this. By far the best software out there.
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Bruno
      Excellent post my friend, and this really does sound like a realistic way to tap into your off-line market.

      In fact I know it works, because when I first moved into an office in 2005 one of the offices a few doors down did web development.

      We would say hi to each other as we walked past each other every day. Finally one day we started chit chatting about business. I discovered that his company did web development.

      So I told him I could most likely offer an extended service to his clients to get their sights seen online with all aspects of Internet marketing.

      What's cool about this is they have no inclination to do any type of Internet marketing. All they care about is Web development and how good they can make websites.

      This is where you come in to play and make them look like a hero in their clients eyes meanwhile you reap the profits.

      Frank Bruno
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      • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
        This an absolutely excellent post.

        I have found this approach to work very similarly to what he says. If you are not particularly good at direct selling to businesses, the approach he outlines is a great way to develop offline clients.

        ....and you definitely do not need a super duper high-ranked site of your own to produce good results. I've found clients rarely even ask about your site.

        ______
        Bruce
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        • Profile picture of the author Khurram Zeb
          Originally Posted by brucerby View Post

          This an absolutely excellent post.

          I have found this approach to work very similarly to what he says. If you are not particularly good at direct selling to businesses, the approach he outlines is a great way to develop offline clients.

          ....and you definitely do not need a super duper high-ranked site of your own to produce good results. I've found clients rarely even ask about your site.

          ______
          Bruce
          Exactly man. People just dont ask. I think a lot depends on how you come across when you speak to them. You need to have 100% belief and conviction in your abilities or atleast be able to fake it till you make it.
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          • Profile picture of the author Frank Bruno
            You can even take this a step further and find out where all these Web developers hang out locally and co-mingle with them, get to know everybody.

            There would be virtually no competition, and once a few of them get to know you and your services you'll start to get a lot of referral work.

            You can even set up referral incentives as well.

            Frank Bruno
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Sinclair
    Khurram, this is a good twist.

    And not something I've in the many paid reports I bought.

    Thank you
    Jeff
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      Yes any center of influence that has access to your best clients can be very valuable.

      Put simply this is a referral system.

      You don't necessarily have to offer 25%...that will work with some businesses and put other businesses off.

      In some cases referral exchanges can work better.

      You'll still need to develop your skills at talking to prospective clients, negotiating deals and at marketing for small businesses, SEO etc etc.

      Also this is just one strategy.

      Long term if you really want to have a solid stream of clients you'll need more than one strategy that relies on the health and wellbeing of one business sector (in this case web developers).

      There are many different vendors and service providers small businesses deal with and will trust if they refer business to you.

      Also you'll find many web developers are not really eager to send you business. They're afraid you'll steal their client.

      That's not big deal because you can potentially make great money out of just one person sending you clients.

      My suggestion would be to expand your thinking a little and think of half a dozen different kinds of businesses who deal with small businesses and would consider sending you referrals.

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Sinclair
    Khurram, this is a good twist.

    And not something I've in the many paid reports I bought.

    Thank you
    Jeff
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  • Profile picture of the author rondo
    Good post, but I'm just wondering why don't you take any payment in advance?


    Andrew
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    • Profile picture of the author Khurram Zeb
      Originally Posted by rondo View Post

      Good post, but I'm just wondering why don't you take any payment in advance?


      Andrew
      Well, because I believe that everyone is honest and I will get my money eventually unless they provide reasons to make me think otherwise.

      Seriously, net-30 has never failed me. and it is easier to say 500 dollars a month for 6 months as opposed to 3000 dollars now!!
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      • Profile picture of the author Keith Boisvert
        Originally Posted by Khurram Zeb View Post

        Well, because I believe that everyone is honest and I will get my money eventually unless they provide reasons to make me think otherwise.

        Seriously, net-30 has never failed me. and it is easier to say 500 dollars a month for 6 months as opposed to 3000 dollars now!!

        Great point. And when dealing with offline clients most are used to vendors and suppliers and work off a net-30 system for everything. It requires little effort on your part. A simple invoice works for me made in Word.

        Keith
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary Huynh
    This is crazy...

    This idea of contacting local web design companies to send me referrals
    came across my mind this morning as I was looking at a local web design
    company's website.

    I looked at this site's portfolio and found that practically none of
    the sites in their portfolio had any presence in the search engines.
    They weren't even indexed! No way were they getting traffic from the SEs.

    My plan was to visit these stores which had a website but were for sure not getting traffic to their sites. Using just this technique for finding clients will probably generate you more work than you can handle.
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    • This is freakin' great! I just posted over at Local Biz Builders about this thread. There are plenty of those who want to get going with local business promotion, but don't have the nerve to do much cold-calling.

      I've been noticed by at least one Web designer/developer in my area, but hadn't done anything about contacting this company. You can bet I'll be on the phone pronto (just as soon as they get into their offices)!
      Signature
      "The will to prepare to win is more important than the will to win." -- misquoting Coach Vince Lombardi
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      • Profile picture of the author Keith Boisvert
        Nice plan and a great way to leverage yourself. I agree that there are a lot of site designers out there that are just that...designers. Most of the ones in my area can produce a kick butt site, but when it comes to anyting more than inserting keywords in the meta tags they are lost.

        Not one in my area can set up blogs. Not one in my area even mentions marketing whatsoever. And there is only one that offers more than web design, and that other service is a branding package the entails fliers, brochures, busines card designs and letter heads.

        So I agree that you have a great plan , and for those who are afraid to go out and cold call on clients, you can leverage the other companies power to get the clients. And if you can outsource...then you are now just a project manager and makeing a nice sum of $$.

        The one problem with the offline niche is the same as everything else. Trust me, clients are not begging to give you piles of cash. You have to go get it. Those of us that can explain what we do effectively will certainly be able to get business. But for those afraid of selling...well you will have a harder time. This niche is still wide open for ideas, and I think the op has shown everyone another nice avenue to approach this.

        Great post!

        Keith
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        • Profile picture of the author joecool1972
          Good post and ties in to some plans that I have already formulated. Thanks.
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          • Profile picture of the author ExRat
            Hi Khurram,

            A question and a comment for you. Comment -

            Learn the basic lingo to sound like you know what you are doing. Infact, you have to know what you are doing.
            I think you also need to be able to do the opposite - demystify the lingo and be able to explain complex matters in simple terms. I find that when talking to offliners, EVEN when you talk in simple terms, the concepts of online stuff are so hard for them to conceptualise (make money from pixels???) that their mind goes blank and they can't digest.

            I haven't sold to offline as such, but I've practiced by talking about the subject with business people that I already knew and that have online arms of their business - I checked out their sites and offered suggestions etc.

            My question -

            I found that even without trying, it's really easy to get into an 'us and them' situation when you try and explain to them that you could make improvements to the site's onpage and offpage SEO - between you and the designer.

            What I mean is that they have usually paid the designer a lot of money and therefore automatically assume that SEO should have been included in the price.

            Do you find this an issue when dealing with the designer? For example, if the designer is the person doing ongoing updates to the site, and I have found that the site doesn't even follow basic SEO guidelines, even when I explain it to the customer in a way that doesn't indict the designer, the customer manages to get angry anyway and starts making it feel like I am telling them that the designer has not done their job properly.

            I realise it's a tricky area, and I realise that a little skill and diplomacy is required, but still, there seems to be a built in resentment that when the 'offliner' customer has paid their designer, they never seem to feel that they have really earnt the money and are looking for reasons (or another person) to be the one to prove that the designer ripped them off.

            How do you deal with this if it happens, especially bearing in mind you are talking about working with the designer ?
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            • Profile picture of the author Khurram Zeb
              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

              Hi Khurram,

              A question and a comment for you. Comment -



              I think you also need to be able to do the opposite - demystify the lingo and be able to explain complex matters in simple terms. I find that when talking to offliners, EVEN when you talk in simple terms, the concepts of online stuff are so hard for them to conceptualise (make money from pixels???) that their mind goes blank and they can't digest.

              I haven't sold to offline as such, but I've practiced by talking about the subject with business people that I already knew and that have online arms of their business - I checked out their sites and offered suggestions etc.

              My question -

              I found that even without trying, it's really easy to get into an 'us and them' situation when you try and explain to them that you could make improvements to the site's onpage and offpage SEO - between you and the designer.

              What I mean is that they have usually paid the designer a lot of money and therefore automatically assume that SEO should have been included in the price.

              Do you find this an issue when dealing with the designer? For example, if the designer is the person doing ongoing updates to the site, and I have found that the site doesn't even follow basic SEO guidelines, even when I explain it to the customer in a way that doesn't indict the designer, the customer manages to get angry anyway and starts making it feel like I am telling them that the designer has not done their job properly.

              I realise it's a tricky area, and I realise that a little skill and diplomacy is required, but still, there seems to be a built in resentment that when the 'offliner' customer has paid their designer, they never seem to feel that they have really earnt the money and are looking for reasons (or another person) to be the one to prove that the designer ripped them off.

              How do you deal with this if it happens, especially bearing in mind you are talking about working with the designer ?
              Lets see if i understand your question. What do you dio when you get a site thats a bad design for SEO and conversions? do you blame the designer?

              I have had that a couple of times.

              BUT I NEVER BAD MOUTH ANYONE. Always say something along the lines of "I will work closely with the designer" as opposed to "the designer sucks. this design is shit for seo and wont convert".

              Also, dont forget - onpage seo is basically, title tags, url structure, mention keywords a few times in the body. The main focus obviously would be offpage and this is where outsourcing can be very handy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Khurram Zeb
      Originally Posted by Gary Huynh View Post

      This is crazy...

      This idea of contacting local web design companies to send me referrals
      came across my mind this morning as I was looking at a local web design
      company's website.

      I looked at this site's portfolio and found that practically none of
      the sites in their portfolio had any presence in the search engines.
      They weren't even indexed! No way were they getting traffic from the SEs.

      My plan was to visit these stores which had a website but were for sure not getting traffic to their sites. Using just this technique for finding clients will probably generate you more work than you can handle.
      Great plan. A little subtlety. Be as low key as possible. Act like you are doing them a favour by taking care of a big problem, TRAFFIC to their customer's site. Never look like you need the money.

      If you have to, mention that you have a virtual team who all work for you. After all, when you are going to outsource ( and you should be ), you will be using services of other warriors, elance etc etc.

      If you get asked a tough question, answer back in real technical terms, confuse them and they will just think "wow, this dude knows his stuff"
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by Khurram Zeb View Post

        If you get asked a tough question, answer back in real technical terms, confuse them and they will just think "wow, this dude knows his stuff"
        That comment totally changed my original opinion of you.....

        Some people might like to confuse people rather than work in an honest and open way - but it's definitely not something I would ever be able to advocate.

        Good luck with your efforts.
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        • Profile picture of the author Khurram Zeb
          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

          That comment totally changed my original opinion of you.....

          Some people might like to confuse people rather than work in an honest and open way - but it's definitely not something I would ever be able to advocate.

          Good luck with your efforts.
          I would much rather confuse someone when asked a tough question as opposed to looking like an idiot who does not know what they are doing. You know, Bullsh!t baffles brains.
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          • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
            Originally Posted by Khurram Zeb View Post

            I would much rather confuse someone when asked a tough question as opposed to looking like an idiot who does not know what they are doing. You know, Bullsh!t baffles brains.
            If you're so insecure and unsure of what you're doing that you'd rather BS people than answer simple (and legitimate) questions about what you're charging them for - that's your choice.
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            • Profile picture of the author Khurram Zeb
              Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

              If you're so insecure and unsure of what you're doing that you'd rather BS people than answer simple (and legitimate) questions about what you're charging them for - that's your choice.

              UMM...dude The honest approach you suggest will work IF there is already some level of rapport.

              By tough questions, I meant questions that you simply do not know the exact answer to.

              More then likely, you can just do some research and find the answer in like 5 minutes.

              But if you are just talking to a web developer and look confused within the first 5 minutes, how do you think it will come across? thats what the poster who i replied to was going to do and i suggested that he be prepared.
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              • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
                Originally Posted by Khurram Zeb View Post

                UMM...dude The honest approach you suggest will work IF there is already some level of rapport.

                By tough questions, I meant questions that you simply do not know the exact answer to.

                More then likely, you can just do some research and find the answer in like 5 minutes.

                But if you are just talking to a web developer and look confused within the first 5 minutes, how do you think it will come across? thats what the poster who i replied to was going to do and i suggested that he be prepared.

                Sorry - but it sounds like you're advocating BSing people that you're an SEM expert and abusing their ignorance to get their money while you outsource all the elements.

                In your words - fake it until you make it.

                That's fine if you want to make a tit of yourself by trying to sell people stuff that you don't understand - but why pick a model like that when you can become an expert in something and sell true value that you can stand behind without having to run off and research answers to questions about your business?


                I'm not saying you can't make money by doing it - but why would anyone actually want to operate in this way?

                These people are going to want actual results and to make money - if you don't know what you're doing and are just going to outsource a bunch of SEM tasks and rely on your customers not really understanding your BS answers about why they're not actually making more money than they're paying you - I don't see why anyone would see this as a good way to start/run a business.

                There are plenty of people here who are desperate enough for money that they'll try something like this if they don't realise it's not as simple as feeding people BS and sucking money from their clients for services you're not qualified to offer.

                On the other hand - if you're actually able to get great results and have reliable outsource places to get the job done for you - Why would you do if for others rather than yourself?

                It's a great tactic to rip people off by baffling them with IM BS and then BSing them again when they ask why they're not getting great results.


                Like I said - I'm not disputing that you could do it and make money - but running a successful business is not all about doing whatever you can to get money from people.....

                Andy
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                • Profile picture of the author Khurram Zeb
                  Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

                  Sorry - but it sounds like you're advocating BSing people that you're an SEM expert and abusing their ignorance to get their money while you outsource all the elements.

                  In your words - fake it until you make it.

                  That's fine if you want to make a tit of yourself by trying to sell people stuff that you don't understand - but why pick a model like that when you can become an expert in something and sell true value that you can stand behind without having to run off and research answers to questions about your business?


                  I'm not saying you can't make money by doing it - but why would anyone actually want to operate in this way?

                  These people are going to want actual results and to make money - if you don't know what you're doing and are just going to outsource a bunch of SEM tasks and rely on your customers not really understanding your BS answers about why they're not actually making more money than they're paying you - I don't see why anyone would see this as a good way to start/run a business.

                  There are plenty of people here who are desperate enough for money that they'll try something like this if they don't realise it's not as simple as feeding people BS and sucking money from their clients for services you're not qualified to offer.

                  On the other hand - if you're actually able to get great results and have reliable outsource places to get the job done for you - Why would you do if for others rather than yourself?

                  It's a great tactic to rip people off by baffling them with IM BS and then BSing them again when they ask why they're not getting great results.


                  Like I said - I'm not disputing that you could do it and make money - but running a successful business is not all about doing whatever you can to get money from people.....

                  Andy
                  Read original post. I would much rather someone take action NOW then try and become an EXPERT at something. sigh
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                  • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
                    Originally Posted by Khurram Zeb View Post

                    Read original post. I would much rather someone take action NOW then try and become an EXPERT at something. sigh
                    But you have a responsibility to the people that hire you to be and do what you say you can.

                    Taking action is great. Pretending to be an expert at something you're not, while taking a hard working business owners money is not only unethical it could probably end up in legal troubles if you can't actually perform what you say you can.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Khurram Zeb
                      Originally Posted by Kyle Tully View Post

                      But you have a responsibility to the people that hire you to be and do what you say you can.

                      Taking action is great. Pretending to be an expert at something you're not, while taking a hard working business owners money is not only unethical it could probably end up in legal troubles if you can't actually perform what you say you can.
                      And I mention this in my original post. BUT I honeslty have no issues with "winging" it sometimes if there are any holes in my knowledge. It is very easy to find info on the web or find someone who will do it for you.
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                      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                        Hi Khurram,
                        Lets see if i understand your question. What do you dio when you get a site thats a bad design for SEO and conversions? do you blame the designer?

                        I have had that a couple of times.

                        BUT I NEVER BAD MOUTH ANYONE. Always say something along the lines of "I will work closely with the designer" as opposed to "the designer sucks. this design is shit for seo and wont convert".

                        Also, dont forget - onpage seo is basically, title tags, url structure, mention keywords a few times in the body. The main focus obviously would be offpage and this is where outsourcing can be very handy.
                        If you would just take 5 minutes to properly read my question you would understand it, but never mind. You totally missed the point that was spelled out clearly for you.

                        After the responses that Andy quoted and the rest, I don't require any answers.

                        Some of us don't do business that way and would never do business (knowingly) with someone who did and certainly wouldn't take advice off them.
                        By tough questions, I meant questions that you simply do not know the exact answer to.
                        There are no questions that on offline business person could ask me about SEO that I couldn't answer off the top of my head or with a simple demonstration, so I would never be in that position.

                        It is very easy to find info on the web
                        Exactly. And as a businessman myself I don't expect an expert to know everything, so if I asked them a question and they had to verify the answer by researching it, no problem. But if I sniffed a hint of bullshit our alliance would be over for good.

                        And frankly, your admissions about how you do business reflect on the validity of your posts here. Good day!
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                        Roger Davis

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                  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
                    Originally Posted by Khurram Zeb View Post

                    Read original post. I would much rather someone take action NOW then try and become an EXPERT at something. sigh
                    And THAT is the problem - YOU are not qualified to give people this advice.

                    By your own admission you're a BS artist and are advocating that people pretend to be SEM experts and if they get asked any 'difficult' questions (for difficult - read 'sensible') they try to confuse the person while they go and look up the answer on the Internet.

                    I've heard a lot of people focus on the advice 'take action' and there certainly are a lot of people not taking action, however taking bad actions takes you down a path far worse than spending some time creating a decent plan that action will implement.

                    You've said that when asked 'difficult' questions you prefer to BS so I'm not surprised at your answers - they're completely in-line with the way you're advocating people operate.

                    However - doing this BS yourself is one thing, but trying to convince other people to do it is just unethical and immoral.

                    It's not your responsibility to get other people to take action to grow their business, so I'm not sure why you seem to think you should be telling them, but if you'd just made your suggestions for peoples consideration and not added all the BS about confusing people and faking it - your original post would've been useful to a lot of people.

                    Having worked in the SEM business I know how a lot of small businesses rely on that search engine marketing budget to take their business to a new level. Unfortunately there's a lot of bad information around relating to what is good, effective SEM and a lot of companies making BS promises that they can't keep which just confuses small business owners and creates false expectations about SEM for them.

                    Taking peoples money just because you can talk a good game and hope they don't know enough about SEM to ask any probing questions is outrageous.

                    If you can't see that and you think it's clever to learn a little seo from the Internet and then charge people and BS them, we're never going to agree on this one.

                    But I would warn anyone reading this thread against being so flippant about starting a business in this way - it's a recipe for disaster.

                    Andy
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                    • Despite the fact that the OP appears to have put his foot in his mouth, regarding BS'ing clients and "fake it 'til you make it" for total n00bs, this is a good idea.

                      Naturally, if you have concrete evidence that you can do what you claim, there's no need to fake anything. As for "baffling them with the bullshit", that's BAD advice. Do NOT think that people are to be "used" just to further your own agenda.

                      I have my own methodology for implementing Web development for local businesses. It does not involve the lowest rung financially (and hence the smallest ad budget) of potential clients.

                      I also have the one thing that proves my value -- I've already grabbed up a bunch of local niches and dominate the top 5 or so that I really want to promote. I don't just mean getting a link or two; I've got a minimum of three on page 1 of the Google search results (and more in the wings) that all point to a 'placeholder' page that will become a rentable space, like in a virtual commercial office building.

                      As for handling the question of “why doesn't my website bring me any business”, in most cases it's because the business owner didn't take a close look at:
                      • His or her own business plan
                      • What specifically he or she wants to promote the most
                      • What underused capacity he or she wants to scale up
                      • What aggravating part of his or her business should be "underpromoted"
                      Many local businesses know their business, but they don't know marketing. That's where I come in...
                      Signature
                      "The will to prepare to win is more important than the will to win." -- misquoting Coach Vince Lombardi
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                    • Profile picture of the author Khurram Zeb
                      To Andyhenry and ExRat.

                      Ok guys, I think there has been some loss of communication in text.

                      When I responded to Gary Huynh, it was under the presupposition that he would be talking to actual web developers/agencies who may ask tough questions and throwing around some words will help credibility.

                      I do not really blame you guys for ripping in to me because you misunderstood me. ( and looking back at my posts, they are not clear so it is partly my fault). Infact, it is a good thing that you did because others might have misunderstood my intentions and gone down the wrong path.

                      I talk about how you should know what you are doing in the original post. here is a snippet:

                      "Infact, you have to know what you are doing. I am pretty good with SEO so thats always my main focus when talking to clients. If you are a good content writer, focus on the autoresponder messages. You get the drift."

                      and

                      " Overdeliver. This goes without saying but I thought I would mention it. If you do not do the job, you wont get refferals."

                      The fake it till you make it attitude I talk about is geared towards a persons confidence to approach freelancers/agencies and NOT their actual skills although it might be misinterpreted easily.

                      To all others who are reading, I hope you guys do not miss the original point of the post which was a way to get to clients who are already spending money and be socially proofed at the same time.

                      BTW Andyhenry and ExRat, I really enjoy what you guys post. Infact I bet if we ever met in real life, we would really hit it off. Thats is what I dont like about text, the meaning can get lost and people reading perceive everything according to their experiences.

                      Anyways, time to ring some freelancer and BS them ... Just kidding
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                      • Profile picture of the author rmx
                        Good response, Khurram.

                        You made a good post about how working with others who are already working with the clients that you want works and is better than cold calling.

                        That is a proven idea and one I've used for years.

                        It would be a shame if people dismissed the whole thing because of the one part. I never thought you were advocating telling people BS or making people promises that you couldn't do.

                        The fact that you are charging monthly means you will have to perform or the client won't continue to pay.

                        Of course you have to know enough to do what you say you can do before you offer services but how many people are totally paralyzed into doing anything because they mistakenly think they need to know absolutely EVERYTHING before they can start ...so they never start.

                        RMX
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                        • Profile picture of the author Khurram Zeb
                          Originally Posted by rmx View Post

                          Good response, Khurram.

                          Of course you have to know enough to do what you say you can do before you offer services but how many people are totally paralyzed into doing anything because they mistakenly think they need to know absolutely EVERYTHING before they can start ...so they never start.

                          RMX
                          This was exactly my point. I am not a world class seo expert but I am pretty damn good and I get the job done.

                          I do not like writing, so all that gets outsourced. I cannot code to save my life so the little coding that is rarely needed gets outsourced.

                          And to give you guys an example of overdelivering. I quoted a client 3 months for seo work. By the end of month 3, the rankings of all the main keywords were between 5-12 on google and thats just not on. I wanted them much higher.

                          I have gone out of my way now and I will be doing an extra month for free to get them in the top 5. I am also going to setup an auto responder series for the client completely free of charge. Oh and i also told them that the 3rd months payment will not be due until I am happy with the work done ( and more importantly they are happy), even if it means me spending the next year to get everything working for free.

                          And you also make a good point of , if you are not doing the job, you wont get paid monthly. Monthly plans are best IMO. Ideally you want to figure out something quickly that will put whatever you are charging them monthly in their bottom line. This way, they get you practically free because you would have already paid for yourself.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Frank Bruno
                            To me, doing off-line SEO work for local businesses sounds a bit risky especially if you offer some sort of guarantee or promise that you'll get their site in the top few pages of Google.

                            There's no way anybody can guarantee this, sure with a few of the sites you could get them in the top few pages.

                            But my experience with building sites and doing on-site and off-site SEO over the last 10 years is that there's really no way to guarantee your rankings and to pass that on to a client with some sort of promise or guarantee, just wouldn't be ethical in my mind.

                            So my question is this, when you guys do work off-line for clients are you offering some sort of guarantee or promise for search engine rankings?

                            It seems to me that it would be better and more feasible to offer a service that would guarantee a certain amount of traffic.

                            I know that goes against the grain of what I'm saying about guaranteeing rankings, but guaranteeing traffic is a whole different ballgame.

                            You could easily guarantee a traffic increase by having articles continuously written which could be outsourced.

                            Ultimately you probably will get a lot of good rankings in the search engines but I would not guarantee this. This would just be considered as a bonus for the website owner.

                            But I definitely would like to hear how you guys are structuring your deals and if they included some sort of guarantee within a certain time period.

                            Frank Bruno
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                            • Originally Posted by Frank Bruno View Post

                              To me, doing off-line SEO work for local businesses sounds a bit risky especially if you offer some sort of guarantee or promise that you'll get their site in the top few pages of Google.
                              There's one approach that's been working for me, but it's a bit ruthless and very targeted:
                              • Identify rich niches -- those with businesses or professionals that have good ad budgets
                              • Test those niches with a simple blog post. If you can get #1 in minutes or hours, go to the next step
                              • Create a "placeholder" page with good SEO for the most profitable keywords for that niche
                              • Make at least 4 backlinks (blog posts, social networking pages, etc.) with good keyword optimization
                              • Take over the top spots in the SERP's for that niche
                              • RENT the marketing funnel you've created for top dollar
                              That way, you don't "promise" anything -- you SHOW what you've done and offer to rent the "placeholder" page (which is where all the backlinks point).

                              Savvy?
                              Signature
                              "The will to prepare to win is more important than the will to win." -- misquoting Coach Vince Lombardi
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                              • Profile picture of the author Khurram Zeb
                                Originally Posted by Vince Runza Online View Post

                                There's one approach that's been working for me, but it's a bit ruthless and very targeted:
                                • Identify rich niches -- those with businesses or professionals that have good ad budgets
                                • Test those niches with a simple blog post. If you can get #1 in minutes or hours, go to the next step
                                • Create a "placeholder" page with good SEO for the most profitable keywords for that niche
                                • Make at least 4 backlinks (blog posts, social networking pages, etc.) with good keyword optimization
                                • Take over the top spots in the SERP's for that niche
                                • RENT the marketing funnel you've created for top dollar
                                That way, you don't "promise" anything -- you SHOW what you've done and offer to rent the "placeholder" page (which is where all the backlinks point).

                                Savvy?
                                Hey man

                                I have seen you mention this a few times. I might give it a go. Sounds like a solid game plan.

                                BTW Scranton Business Websites Get Targeted Local Traffic and are Making Money! is one of the coolest salesletter(mind if i call it that? ) I have come across. Full of personality.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Keith Boisvert
                                  So my question is this, when you guys do work off-line for clients are you offering some sort of guarantee or promise for search engine rankings?

                                  It seems to me that it would be better and more feasible to offer a service that would guarantee a certain amount of traffic.
                                  No. I don't guarantee "Rankings". I guarantee that I will work hard to promte their business. I guarantee that I will continue to do so and work with them to achieve what they want out of their online efforts. Other than that, I can't guarantee anything.

                                  I am more concerned about traffic. You bet your ass I could get someone a top spot in google for some obscure phrase that no one even types in, but why bother?

                                  You are correct about the traffic. Getting them traffic is more important. Of course good rankins are part of that, but that is only part of it in my book. AND, getting them traffic is one thing...but doing something with it is another highly overlooked problem in the offline industry.

                                  And on a side note...I get asked alot of questions. There are times I DON"T know the answers. Not often, but it certainly does happen. I do not BS them at all. As a former (and I guess current) small biz owner...you can sniff out BS a mile away. I answer them honestly.

                                  I tell them "I am not 100% positive on that answer, so before I spout off and give bad info, I would rather go double check and get back to you." "I will get back to you on that a bit later in the day, is that ok?".

                                  NOT once has that ever hurt me. And it shows them that I respect them enough not to BS them.

                                  KEith
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                                • Profile picture of the author rosan9
                                  Originally Posted by Khurram Zeb View Post

                                  Hey man

                                  I have seen you mention this a few times. I might give it a go. Sounds like a solid game plan.

                                  BTW Scranton Business Websites Get Targeted Local Traffic and are Making Money! is one of the coolest salesletter(mind if i call it that? ) I have come across. Full of personality.
                                  I agree Vince, that is some good copy.
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                              • Profile picture of the author k0zm0zs0ul
                                Originally Posted by Vince Runza Online View Post

                                There's one approach that's been working for me, but it's a bit ruthless and very targeted:
                                • Identify rich niches -- those with businesses or professionals that have good ad budgets
                                • Test those niches with a simple blog post. If you can get #1 in minutes or hours, go to the next step
                                • Create a "placeholder" page with good SEO for the most profitable keywords for that niche
                                • Make at least 4 backlinks (blog posts, social networking pages, etc.) with good keyword optimization
                                • Take over the top spots in the SERP's for that niche
                                • RENT the marketing funnel you've created for top dollar
                                That way, you don't "promise" anything -- you SHOW what you've done and offer to rent the "placeholder" page (which is where all the backlinks point).

                                Savvy?
                                Hey, this is an excellent thread and has my mind working overdrive, lol. Despite the bit of misunderstandings, I think your intentions were good with this thread, and I appreciate it. I do have one question, you talk about creating place holder sites...do you mean just creating a niche site with sort of generic everyday info related to the niche to get it well ranked, and then promote it to offline customers as rent space and tailor it to their business for the term of the lease? If so, I really like that idea! Obviously if that's the case you want to make sure the niche is something that you would easily be able to find local business owners for in the same area right? For instance you wouldn't choose a niche like bird watching, if there are no bird watching businesses in your local area right? lol Ok, thanks in advance.
                                Best regards,
                                Cori

                                Also the offline referrals, you could do something similar but instead of offering seo offer writing services?
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                              • Profile picture of the author Instructor
                                Originally Posted by Vince Runza Online View Post

                                There's one approach that's been working for me, but it's a bit ruthless and very targeted:
                                • Identify rich niches -- those with businesses or professionals that have good ad budgets
                                • Test those niches with a simple blog post. If you can get #1 in minutes or hours, go to the next step
                                • Create a "placeholder" page with good SEO for the most profitable keywords for that niche
                                • Make at least 4 backlinks (blog posts, social networking pages, etc.) with good keyword optimization
                                • Take over the top spots in the SERP's for that niche
                                • RENT the marketing funnel you've created for top dollar
                                That way, you don't "promise" anything -- you SHOW what you've done and offer to rent the "placeholder" page (which is where all the backlinks point).

                                Savvy?
                                That sounds real sexy. I want to hear more about this. Can I pm you Vince?
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                            • Profile picture of the author Khurram Zeb
                              Originally Posted by Frank Bruno View Post

                              To me, doing off-line SEO work for local businesses sounds a bit risky especially if you offer some sort of guarantee or promise that you'll get their site in the top few pages of Google.

                              There's no way anybody can guarantee this, sure with a few of the sites you could get them in the top few pages.

                              But my experience with building sites and doing on-site and off-site SEO over the last 10 years is that there's really no way to guarantee your rankings and to pass that on to a client with some sort of promise or guarantee, just wouldn't be ethical in my mind.

                              So my question is this, when you guys do work off-line for clients are you offering some sort of guarantee or promise for search engine rankings?

                              It seems to me that it would be better and more feasible to offer a service that would guarantee a certain amount of traffic.

                              I know that goes against the grain of what I'm saying about guaranteeing rankings, but guaranteeing traffic is a whole different ballgame.

                              You could easily guarantee a traffic increase by having articles continuously written which could be outsourced.

                              Ultimately you probably will get a lot of good rankings in the search engines but I would not guarantee this. This would just be considered as a bonus for the website owner.

                              But I definitely would like to hear how you guys are structuring your deals and if they included some sort of guarantee within a certain time period.

                              Frank Bruno
                              Each deal is different really. A lot depends on what is it the client actually does. Are they selling a physical product? running seminars? have their own dental practice etc etc.

                              Funnily enough, I was having this conversation with a friend just yesterday. Something along the lines of

                              "people don't want higher rankings, they want more sales. They just think that higher rankings equates to higher sales"

                              The above is somewhat true. All things being equal, higher rankings = more traffic = more sales.

                              Yes, guaranteeing rankings is risky. Very risky. I never go beyond saying "first page rankings". But lets sit back and look at the bigger picture.

                              I am going to make some generalisations to get the point across.

                              In 3 months you achieve the following:

                              - rankings from being non-existent to a few first page rankings. Not necessarily no.1 but even at no 5-10, you are bound to get some traffic.

                              - you build a list and line up auto responders. Test a few different headlines, messages etc etc

                              - If possible setup an affiliate program. Get in touch with affiliates etc

                              Collectively, if you do the job to a good level, you are bound to get results. You can't not get results.

                              My experience is that people generally have good intentions. They want you to do well. So, if you do not get the desired result within the time frame specified, it is time to work for free until the job is done. This is why I highly recommend not competing on price. You need a buffer because sometimes, things just do not work out no matter how hard you work or how good your intentions are.

                              For example, there is a local seo company in my area ( they actually offered me a job at 25k British pounds per year. I told them to go where the sun dont shine). They charge clients 700 pounds a year for SEO and do a terrible job. Their idea of SEO is 100% on page optimisation and maybe maybe some directory submissions. Anyone worth his soul knows that a budget of 700 pounds a year and on page optimization alone will not get you anywhere.

                              I charge a lot more than that. In fact a lot more but the whole point is with the buffer money (if you want to call it that), it gives me leeway to go as hard as I need to, to get the job done and still make a good healthy profit.

                              My friends actually think I am undercharging. Like i will do stuff for clients for free if it is not too much hassle but my friends are like "charge for everything you do". I might change that in the future.

                              I am not kidding here guys. If you are even half descent at this stuff, you will never ever be out of work. One other thing, I am from the UK so the competition online is much much easier then the US, IMO.

                              One last thing. You will be surprised how much people are willing to pay for services such as ours. I used to feel guilty at first thinking "man, i am doing things that are easy" BUT they are easy to me, not to the person who wants an online presence. When I am with my programmer friend, I look at some of this php code and think "OMG that looks so tough" and hes like "na, its easy". I have personally seen days when there is a job to be done which will take him 3 hours and he gets paid 800 pounds ~ 1500 dollars. FOR THREE HOURS. But the thing is, hes not getting paid for those 3 hours. He is getting paid for the years of experience to be able to think analytically and solve problems in php, .net or whatever it is.

                              So everytime you are about to quote a client, quote for all the knowledge you have gained and all the IM courses you have bought and spent time on learning. There was a really good post here on the WF about a story of a plumber charging 70 dollars to tighten a nut. I cannot find it now.

                              Sorry to go on a tangent but i felt it was important.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
                        Originally Posted by Khurram Zeb View Post

                        To Andyhenry and ExRat.

                        Ok guys, I think there has been some loss of communication in text.

                        When I responded to Gary Huynh, it was under the presupposition that he would be talking to actual web developers/agencies who may ask tough questions and throwing around some words will help credibility.

                        I do not really blame you guys for ripping in to me because you misunderstood me. ( and looking back at my posts, they are not clear so it is partly my fault). Infact, it is a good thing that you did because others might have misunderstood my intentions and gone down the wrong path.

                        I talk about how you should know what you are doing in the original post. here is a snippet:

                        "Infact, you have to know what you are doing. I am pretty good with SEO so thats always my main focus when talking to clients. If you are a good content writer, focus on the autoresponder messages. You get the drift."

                        and

                        " Overdeliver. This goes without saying but I thought I would mention it. If you do not do the job, you wont get refferals."

                        The fake it till you make it attitude I talk about is geared towards a persons confidence to approach freelancers/agencies and NOT their actual skills although it might be misinterpreted easily.

                        To all others who are reading, I hope you guys do not miss the original point of the post which was a way to get to clients who are already spending money and be socially proofed at the same time.

                        BTW Andyhenry and ExRat, I really enjoy what you guys post. Infact I bet if we ever met in real life, we would really hit it off. Thats is what I dont like about text, the meaning can get lost and people reading perceive everything according to their experiences.

                        Anyways, time to ring some freelancer and BS them ... Just kidding

                        Aha - we're now back in the land of reason

                        Why didn't you just say that in the beginning? We're not giving you grief just because we're idiots, and like I said - I thought your first post was useful to people as there are still a lot of people here that think they have to do everything themselves.

                        I've done this model you're referring to and like I also said - you can make money doing it.

                        The only problem I picked up on was the approach - SEO is one of these subjects where IMers come across it while learning about IM and then get their head filled with all the usual seo misinformation and then think they're qualified to charge business money for doing simple things.

                        In reality you CAN do this, but there's a difference between building a successful long term business and just trying to squeeze some short term money out of people by doing stuff that you don't really have any clue whether it will increase their bottom line.

                        People often say "you can't fail to help them", but that's actually not true - if you're charging them $500 a month and all you do is get them some low quality search engine traffic that does turn into business - you're actually costing them money, not helping them.

                        The smaller they are - the more this will hurt them.

                        However with that said - I was making a big difference to many offline businesses after I'd only been learning IM and SEO for 3 years, so this is not rocket science and with the right approach you can do a great job for them and make decent money.

                        It's just important that people don't kid themselves that they're qualified when all they've done is read a few ebooks and hang out in some SEO forums.

                        Anyone can get traffic to a website - that's not what people are paying you for - they want results. Results = more sales.

                        Unless you have been able to repeatedly create sales from your SEM skills, don't assume that doing the basics of SEM constitutes being a professional SEM expert.

                        Look at how many people come to this forum and say they understand SEM but can't make any money with their own business - there's no difference between that and charging other people for no results, except that they lose money and you had no reason to expect you could make them money in exchange.

                        So - all I'm saying is make sure you can walk the talk before you fool yourself that you can legitimately take peoples money.

                        It's actually REALLY easy to help many businesses right away because they're often making the same mistakes IMers make and completely focusing on them and their products rather than their customers - so while SEM might be what you're selling - helping them in other ways will make sure they realise the value you bring.

                        I ended up having more sessions coaching them on good business than any talks over the SEM - that was just one of the small details of how I was helping them. Once you adjusted their crazy SEM expectations so that they were happy that you knew your stuff and the results would come - you could make it fun and put a bottle of Champaign on what the date for their first Google number 1 placement would be.

                        More often than not - I was always able to increase their bottom line much quicker with logical business changes than any SEM differences. However, long-term it sometimes tipped the other way. One small business I helped now gets 65% of their business from their website.

                        Andy
                        Signature

                        nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author spicegator
    Excellent post, I work quite a bit with offline clients and hate cold calling. What I have done is use Accountants, Bookkeepers and Business Attorneys to refer clients to me, and then offer them a referral fee. Some don't want that as it makes a conflict of interest issue, so I offer to make a charitable donation to the charity of their choice in their names. What I find is that small business owners trust advise from these people and my closing ratio from clients referred from them is very high.
    I tried using Web design firms before but found that most of them either offer the same service or just used me to garner my activities and then cut me lose and went out on there own.
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      Originally Posted by spicegator View Post

      Excellent post, I work quite a bit with offline clients and hate cold calling. What I have done is use Accountants, Bookkeepers and Business Attorneys to refer clients to me, and then offer them a referral fee. Some don't want that as it makes a conflict of interest issue, so I offer to make a charitable donation to the charity of their choice in their names. What I find is that small business owners trust advise from these people and my closing ratio from clients referred from them is very high.
      I tried using Web design firms before but found that most of them either offer the same service or just used me to garner my activities and then cut me lose and went out on there own.
      This is likely to be a far more effective strategy.

      You're not relying on a potential competitor to send you business.

      Also you can approach them without asking for anything.

      Just call and say something like:

      "I provide internet marketing and web design services for small businesses and sometimes I meet with clients who might need an [accountant]. I'm wondering if you'd like me to send some of these people to you and if so who would be your ideal prospect?"

      If you contact one of your potential centers of influence this way you multiply the chances of getting them onboard with you and you're no longer begging.

      You're offering to send them referrals and they'll probably offer to send you referrals in return.

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
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      • Profile picture of the author GoGetta
        Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

        This is likely to be a far more effective strategy.

        You're not relying on a potential competitor to send you business.

        Also you can approach them without asking for anything.

        Just call and say something like:

        "I provide internet marketing and web design services for small businesses and sometimes I meet with clients who might need an [accountant]. I'm wondering if you'd like me to send some of these people to you and if so who would be your ideal prospect?"

        If you contact one of your potential centers of influence this way you multiply the chances of getting them onboard with you and you're no longer begging.

        You're offering to send them referrals and they'll probably offer to send you referrals in return.

        Kindest regards,
        Andrew Cavanagh

        Hi Andrew,

        Just wondering about this referal system you talk about speaking with accountants etc to ask for referals in return for referals which sounds like a great system. But my question is:

        What if I never get any referals for an accountant? What if I speak with an accountant regarding what I do and they agree to send me referals. Then they send me a lot of referals and I never send one referal to him?? What would you do in this case??

        GoGetta

        P.S To The threadstarter, Great Thread!
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        • Profile picture of the author Lance K
          Couple of thoughts...


          1 - Once you have one designer sending you referrals, take some of the money you made and go have another designer build you one of these simple $300 - $500 websites. Then when you approach them as a potential referral partner, you already have the rapport of being a customer. People are more likely to help take care of those that help take care of them. Repeat as often as you like.

          2 - Why not start your own "franchise" so to speak for these web designers. They work under your brand but keep 100% of the design revenue (essentially independent contractors). And they commit to recommending your services to their customers. In return, you commit to spending 25% (or whatever) of your revenue that they refer to advertising their design services via the brand.

          3 - Once you have a satisfied client that's getting results, offer them a 1/2 price month if they would send a personalized, hand written note to the designer thanking them for referring your services.
          Signature
          "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
          ~ Zig Ziglar
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        • Profile picture of the author rmx
          Originally Posted by GoGetta View Post

          Hi Andrew,

          Just wondering about this referal system you talk about speaking with accountants etc to ask for referals in return for referals which sounds like a great system. But my question is:

          What if I never get any referals for an accountant? What if I speak with an accountant regarding what I do and they agree to send me referals. Then they send me a lot of referals and I never send one referal to him?? What would you do in this case??

          GoGetta

          P.S To The threadstarter, Great Thread!
          I'm not Andrew but, you make every intention of sending them referrals and look for opportunities to do so, but if they are sending you a lot more referrals than you are sending them, find another way to compensate them.

          Ron
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          • Profile picture of the author Aldian Prakoso
            Hi Khurram,

            Publishing a real book offline will also help to funnel for offline clients. You'll surely get a lot of leverage from utilizing the publisher and book stores.

            You don't even need to spend a dime to publish book. Everything will be covered by the publisher and sponsors
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        • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
          Originally Posted by GoGetta View Post

          Hi Andrew,

          Just wondering about this referal system you talk about speaking with accountants etc to ask for referals in return for referals which sounds like a great system. But my question is:

          What if I never get any referals for an accountant? What if I speak with an accountant regarding what I do and they agree to send me referals. Then they send me a lot of referals and I never send one referal to him?? What would you do in this case??

          You deal with each situation with common sense as it comes up.

          In the situation you suggest which could happen there is a process:

          1. Whenever you get a referral you should immediately be sending a hand written thank you note to the person who gave you the referral.

          You should keep the people who send you referrals updated on how those referrals are going.

          They've put their trust in you to look after these people and they WILL want to know what's happening.

          Also that constant contact and your show of genuine appreciation will increase the number of referrals sent to you substantially.


          2. If the referral converts into a paying client you can have a talk to the person who sent you the referral and ask them if they'd like some kind of payment or if they'd like to continue with the expectation that you'll send them referrals when someone good comes along who should suit their business.


          The real key is constant contact and open communication.

          Most business deals do NOT turn out the way you expect them to.

          That's why experienced business people put exit plans into their deals and talk about the methods for re-negotiating deals when they're making them.

          If both parties are fair and honest you'll work out a solution everyone is happy with.

          Kindest regards,
          Andrew Cavanagh
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          • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
            In answer to this question...
            "when you guys do work off-line for clients are you offering some sort of guarantee or promise for search engine rankings?"


            First most business owners...even after you talk to them and explain it...still put little or no value on search engine rankings (although you may be able to WOW them with it if you have a few good rankings).

            It wouldn't be hard to give a search engine ranking guarantee.

            Just pick a long tail keyword phrase with no competition related to the business and location and guarantee a top 3 ranking on that.

            You should be able to get to number 1 with little effort.

            But you've missed the biggest key of all.



            Your objective working with a business should be to make that business more profits.

            Most businesses have more than enough traffic walking through their door.

            How about converting some of the people who are walking into your client's business every day into email subscribers then following up with them automatically by autoresponder?

            How about creating email follow up that gives valuable information to people who buy a product or service...then offers them related products and services.

            What about educating the prospects of a business on why they should buy a specific product or service...how it will benefit them.

            If you're focusing on just getting search engine traffic to a business you have missed the real money in combining online and offline marketing in a brick and mortar business.

            If you start thinking like a business person and looking at the assets that business already have you can explode their profits using websites and autoresponders, streaming video and audio, online testimonials etc etc.

            Kindest regards,
            Andrew Cavanagh
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            • Profile picture of the author Kelvin Brown
              Andrew,

              This is so far the best, and clearest post in the thread.

              The first thing in dealing with an offline business is to access what they expect from a website. Many think only directly, about how a website can make them more money. Often times it is what can be done indirectly that will matter the most.

              Such as using autoresponders to educate walk in clients.

              Using FAQ, to educate and service clients after hours.

              Adding video and audio instructions to complement text.

              Using the website to build community support or do community outreach.

              So, the best thing you can do is listen to the client, and share with them how the website can help extend the companies goals.

              - I was selling to offline clients before it was " the thing to do".

              Kelvin

              Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

              In answer to this question...
              "when you guys do work off-line for clients are you offering some sort of guarantee or promise for search engine rankings?"


              First most business owners...even after you talk to them and explain it...still put little or no value on search engine rankings (although you may be able to WOW them with it if you have a few good rankings).

              It wouldn't be hard to give a search engine ranking guarantee.

              Just pick a long tail keyword phrase with no competition related to the business and location and guarantee a top 3 ranking on that.

              You should be able to get to number 1 with little effort.

              But you've missed the biggest key of all.



              Your objective working with a business should be to make that business more profits.

              Most businesses have more than enough traffic walking through their door.

              How about converting some of the people who are walking into your client's business every day into email subscribers then following up with them automatically by autoresponder?

              How about creating email follow up that gives valuable information to people who buy a product or service...then offers them related products and services.

              What about educating the prospects of a business on why they should buy a specific product or service...how it will benefit them.

              If you're focusing on just getting search engine traffic to a business you have missed the real money in combining online and offline marketing in a brick and mortar business.

              If you start thinking like a business person and looking at the assets that business already have you can explode their profits using websites and autoresponders, streaming video and audio, online testimonials etc etc.

              Kindest regards,
              Andrew Cavanagh
              Signature

              Kelvin Brown

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              • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
                Originally Posted by Kelvin Brown View Post

                Andrew,

                This is so far the best, and clearest post in the thread.

                The first thing in dealing with an offline business is to access what they expect from a website. Many think only directly, about how a website can make them more money. Often times it is what can be done indirectly that will matter the most.

                Such as using autoresponders to educate walk in clients.

                Using FAQ, to educate and service clients after hours.

                Adding video and audio instructions to complement text.

                Using the website to build community support or do community outreach.

                So, the best thing you can do is listen to the client, and share with them how the website can help extend the companies goals.

                - I was selling to offline clients before it was " the thing to do".
                Thank you for your kind words Kelvin.

                Yes I was also selling to offline clients many many years before the majority of the internet marketing community seemed to think it was a good idea.

                And I did it not because it was cool because it was (and I believe still is) the fastest way to make a good income out of your internet marketing skills.

                The real money for everyone involved is in the way you integrate online and offline marketing.

                Most online marketers are exceptionally dumb when it comes to just connecting with offline marketing models.

                Look for the simplest solution. Look for the existing assets.

                Most offline businesses already have prospects, clients and staff.

                So lead generation is usually not a priority.

                Follow up on the other hand can be made enormously powerful by harnessing the labor of existing staff and capturing contact details of prospects and clients already coming into contact with the business.

                In 99% of cases the results from that strategy will beat the LIVING HELL out of any online SEO strategy.

                And if you implement a follow up system first THEN do the SEO it will make that SEO work many times more effective.

                Kindest regards,
                Andrew Cavanagh
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                • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
                  Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

                  And I did it not because it was cool because it was (and I believe still is) the fastest way to make a good income out of your internet marketing skills.

                  Kindest regards,
                  Andrew Cavanagh
                  Hi Andrew,

                  This is something I've often ended up breaking down to when people don't understand that they're wasting their time with many online activities.

                  When you work offline you expect to be able to directly relate your effort and activities to revenue.

                  For some reason online seems to turn people dumb and they run around doing ineffective things for which they have zero idea of the possible outcome - but calling it business.

                  SEO is one of those things. As you say. in itself it's nothing more than a leveraging tool - but you need a business to leverage it on. If your business is not sound - all the seo in the world won't change that.

                  When you combine offline with online you get the best of both - direct relationships between your efforts and your income - but with unlimited scalability.

                  Andy
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                • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
                  Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

                  The real money for everyone involved is in the way you integrate online and offline marketing.

                  Most online marketers are exceptionally dumb when it comes to just connecting with offline marketing models.

                  Look for the simplest solution. Look for the existing assets.

                  Most offline businesses already have prospects, clients and staff.

                  So lead generation is usually not a priority.

                  Follow up on the other hand can be made enormously powerful by harnessing the labor of existing staff and capturing contact details of prospects and clients already coming into contact with the business.

                  In 99% of cases the results from that strategy will beat the LIVING HELL out of any online SEO strategy.

                  And if you implement a follow up system first THEN do the SEO it will make that SEO work many times more effective.

                  Kindest regards,
                  Andrew Cavanagh
                  Andrew, I agree 110%. I was doing lead generation and using referral systems way before anyone ever came up with a SEO strategy. Year after year, my offline businesses got way more new business from referrals than any online marketing tactic -- even having a website for a service business that ranked in Alexa's 10%.

                  One of the fastest and easiest ways to boost any business -- offline or online -- is to increase the amount of referrals they are getting. It's a core strategy for any marketing consultant worth their fees to implement with their clients.

                  Take care,

                  Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    I used to do this - BUT, it turned into another job.

    When you do it yourself it ends up too time-consuming and when you manage others - it ends up too time consuming (It's not easy to get 'reliable' people to keep doing a good job).

    It's fine if you're just getting started and want to ditch your job, but it's a recipe for replacing a job with another job.

    But - it works. So it might be right for some people (but it wasn't for me and I'm glad because I'd still be doing it and wouldn't be on the better path I'm on now).

    Andy
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    nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
    Nice post Khurram, a solid referral system is a brilliant strategy for getting offline consulting clients.

    And you don't have to limit yourself to web developers, if you think about it there are MANY different industries, professions and individuals that are perfect referral partners.

    Frankly I think referrals are one of the most powerful marketing tools you can use -- it's just like an affiliate program
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  • Profile picture of the author greenovni
    Great Great Thread!
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  • Profile picture of the author Khurram Zeb
    Ok seems like, this is the bit that caused the confusion:

    "If you get asked a tough question, answer back in real technical terms, confuse them and they will just think "wow, this dude knows his stuff "

    It was meant to be just a push to take action. Like if you have a friend who is scared to do something. You big them up and tell them how great they are to instill confidence so they go through with whatever they are scared of.

    with regards to competition from the actual agencies/freelancers. I think i have been lucky in the sense that most of my work comes from people who are very good coders. proficient in php , .net, ecommerce etc. I am talking guys who will not get out of bed for less then 350 pounds (~ 600 dollars) a day. So they have no interest in seo and all the marketing stuff. but i can see how that might be a problem. It just so happens that i have never experienced it.

    And if you find someone who can provide you with a lot of work, you will naturally become friends with them because their clients will be happy with the work you do and its a win win situation. One of my best buddies is one of these guys now and we see each other everyday.
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  • Profile picture of the author iw433
    This is what I call a "meat and potatoes" post.
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    Bill Skywalker Edwards
    Learn to use LinkedIn

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  • Profile picture of the author rockgold
    Great advice from someone who has obviously been there like myself. Cold calling is NOT the way to make money. I use attraction marketing and let the people come to me.

    Rocky McDaniel

    creator of Rocky's Wealth Formula
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    • Profile picture of the author Jimnopks
      Nice post KZ,

      I knew when you said to fake it you were referring to website designers because that is what you wrote.

      We all have to fake it a little when we first get started.

      Doctors do. Who wants to be the first patient of a brain surgeon?

      If you ask, am I your first patient, they would probably say I have done many of these before when they really mean I have assisted many doctors while I was learning.

      I recently had minor surgery with localized pain killers and the Dr said to his assistant, “No, not like that” and took the scalpel from him. I was wishing I had earplugs.

      Anyway, keep the ideas flowing and do not stop posting good ideas because you were criticized a little
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

      This is likely to be a far more effective strategy.

      You're not relying on a potential competitor to send you business.

      Also you can approach them without asking for anything.

      Just call and say something like:

      "I provide internet marketing and web design services for small businesses and sometimes I meet with clients who might need an [accountant]. I'm wondering if you'd like me to send some of these people to you and if so who would be your ideal prospect?"

      If you contact one of your potential centers of influence this way you multiply the chances of getting them onboard with you and you're no longer begging.

      You're offering to send them referrals and they'll probably offer to send you referrals in return.

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
      Andrew, this is one of my favorite approaches, with a slight semantic twist...

      Often asking "who is your ideal prospect" gets me a blank stare as they try to think of specific examples. I like to ask, "how can I tell if someone I'm talking to might be a good prospect for you?"

      I can't claim this one for my own. I got it from Bob Burg, in his book "Endless Referrals." Bob uses the example of a copier salesman. 'If you pass a copy machine, and the waste basket is overflowing, it probably means the copier is flaking out. They might be a great prospect for me.'

      Originally Posted by Vince Runza Online View Post

      As for handling the question of “why doesn't my website bring me any business”, in most cases it's because the business owner didn't take a close look at:
      • His or her own business plan
      • What specifically he or she wants to promote the most
      • What underused capacity he or she wants to scale up
      • What aggravating part of his or her business should be "underpromoted"
      Many local businesses know their business, but they don't know marketing. That's where I come in...
      Spot on, Vince.

      Back when I worked in retail, we'd have assorted consultants or sales types come in. They'd spend two minutes looking around, then launch into all the things we had to change. Their whole intent was to get us to change to their model, without regard to what we were already good at or what the owners' goals for the business might be.

      The salesmen usually left empty handed, the consultants with a one-day per diem.

      Bottom line - you have to know the endpoints before you can map out the route.

      Originally posted by Khurram Zeb:

      My friends actually think I am undercharging. Like i will do stuff for clients for free if it is not too much hassle but my friends are like "charge for everything you do". I might change that in the future.
      Khurram, on the truly little stuff, I'd keep doing things with a smile.

      For bigger things, I like to print an invoice showing what the service is worth. Then I take a red marker and write, "No charge - we appreciate your business. " Sometimes, you just can't afford to do everything extra for free, but if you do this occasionally it makes a huge impression...
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      • Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        Spot on, Vince.

        Back when I worked in retail, we'd have assorted consultants or sales types come in. They'd spend two minutes looking around, then launch into all the things we had to change. Their whole intent was to get us to change to their model, without regard to what we were already good at or what the owners' goals for the business might be.

        The salesmen usually left empty handed, the consultants with a one-day per diem.

        Bottom line - you have to know the endpoints before you can map out the route.
        You have to be able to listen effectively for this to work. You can't just "grill" a business owner, like a child who hasn't done his or her homework, about what needs to be accomplished.
        .
        A simple, open-ended question like, "If I were to ask you, 'what's most important about your business', what might you say?" opens the floodgates of possibilities to a business owner. Without putting any pressure on the person, you allow him or her to rattle on, carelessly, about what's important.

        A good listener will be able to "mine" priceless information from that flood...
        Signature
        "The will to prepare to win is more important than the will to win." -- misquoting Coach Vince Lombardi
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        • Profile picture of the author Chris_L
          As a business owner, I'm reluctant to refer my clients to anyone that I don't personally working with - even If they offer to exchange referrals with me. I feel obligated that I should do my due diligent because your reputation is on the line every time you give out referrals. One bad referral could hurt your long established good will with your client.

          Perhaps, a better approach would be to offer the [accountant] your service for free, i.e. web development, web design, or SEO. That way, he could see your work first-hand. All you ask in return is the permission to showcase their website and referrals. He might gladly return the favor if you did a good job. And his referrals would have more weight because he would have already been helping you with conversion by sharing his first-hand experience of your service with his clients.

          ~Chris
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          • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
            Originally Posted by Chris_L View Post

            As a business owner, I'm reluctant to refer my clients to anyone that I don't personally working with - even If they offer to exchange referrals with me. I feel obligated that I should do my due diligent because your reputation is on the line every time you give out referrals. One bad referral could hurt your long established good will with your client.

            Perhaps, a better approach would be to offer the [accountant] your service for free, i.e. web development, web design, or SEO. That way, he could see your work first-hand. All you ask in return is the permission to showcase their website and referrals. He might gladly return the favor if you did a good job. And his referrals would have more weight because he would have already been helping you with conversion by sharing his first-hand experience of your service with his clients.

            ~Chris
            Excellent post Chris and this is exactly the approach I recommend.

            So you can start out simply by identifying who is most likely to give you the best refferals...your "centers of influence".

            Then you contact them or better still see if you know someone who knows them.

            In other words there's a very good chance you have a friend who uses a good accountant who can talk to that accountant and tell him about you.

            And tell him you're willing to offer your internet marketing service to prove it's value and if it works all you ask in return is a recommendation to his clients.

            (You'll even give his clients a free consult so it makes him look like a generous benefactor).

            That's a very effective way of getting clients when you're starting out and it gets over every hurdle most people starting out have.

            Kindest regards,
            Andrew Cavanagh
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      • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        Andrew, this is one of my favorite approaches, with a slight semantic twist...

        Often asking "who is your ideal prospect" gets me a blank stare as they try to think of specific examples. I like to ask, "how can I tell if someone I'm talking to might be a good prospect for you?"
        Good point.

        It's vital that you use the language of the person you're talking to.

        In some fields where people are used to asking for referral asking "who is your ideal prospect" will work beautifully.

        But in other fields it can confuse people.

        So you use THEIR language.

        If it was a builder you might ask "if I could send you anyone in the world who would be the perfect home buyer for you?"

        If it was an accountant you might say "I'm sure you have some businesses you love dealing with. If I were to recommend your services what kinds of businesses do you really love to work with?"

        Speaking to people in a language they understand is very important if you want to get results.

        Also being really low key, confident and relaxed...like this is something everyone does every day.

        If you're too anxious or too pushy you're going to make people wary of you and good referrals come from people who trust you.

        And that would be my final point.

        Don't be in such a hurry. You can throw out the idea and then stay in touch with these key centers of influence.

        If you're on their mind and you're the friendly helpful internet guy they will send you good referrals sooner or later.

        Kindest regards,
        Andrew Cavanagh
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  • Profile picture of the author OnlineMasterMind
    Originally Posted by Khurram Zeb View Post

    I do not normally post a lot on this forum because I like to take the approach of a student. But I have been doing something offline for a while now and making a descent income from it.

    It all started when I bought a product on offline income through IM. I never did follow the steps as exactly outlined in the book because I saw some obvious flaws.

    Those of you who are in the game will know what I am talking about. Others will dismiss this post as BS. Do whatever you want. It is about time I gave back to the warrior forum.

    The problem with most offline money making ebooks is the way the authors tell you to basically cold call the prospect and sell them on the idea of increasing business through the internet.

    Here are a few problems with this approach:

    - Why the hell would they ever trust you? you could be a snake oil salesman for all they know.
    - You are trying to get them to do something they never thought about.

    Those 2 above are tough to get past. So i decided to take the past of least resistance. Here is what you are gonna do and I am not BSinng you when I say making 2k+ a month is within 1 month of your reach by working maybe 10 hours a week.

    First off all, lets brain storm. Who would your ideal client be?

    My ideal client is someone who has already done some work to get online but is not making much sales. They are aware of the potential of IM but need some guidance. Where do I find these people?

    Do I go on the internet and look for websites on the 10th page of google and ring them? NO thats still cold calling and believe me, ITs TOUGH

    I want a situation where I am socially proofed to the client before hand. Here is how you achieve this :

    - You look for small business web development companies in your area. You know the ones that that make small 4-10 page websites for local business and charge like 200-500 bucks.

    - You look for freelance web developers in your area.

    Do you see the difference between "hi, i m xxx and i do seo and generate sales " VS a client who is already paying to get a website done and he gets told " we have a contract with a person who does seo, autoresponders, conversion tracking and can setup an affiliate program if you are inclined to do so"

    I shit you not, this way I have personally never cold called a client. They always ring me.
    Now you get on the fricking phone and ring these companies and freelancers. OK. But this time you are not selling anything. You are offering them 20-25% of all work they pass your way. TBH, I have never even offered any percentage to people who pass work my way( I am socially very savvy) but you may initially have to.

    What work you ask? It is almost always going to be SEO, autoresponders and improving conversions. In some cases you might have to setup an affiliate program. But obviously your rates go up accordingly.

    Many of you may not know this but the biggest complaint that people have when they get websites made is "No one is coming to to my site". Trust me, I have made a couple of really good friends who are freelance web developers and this is the most common thread.

    Now that your head is in the right place, here are some tips:

    - Overquote. You have to because from experience, they always want more things done and this way, you can do those things for free and they will love you for it.

    - Do not make a habit of getting on the phone with clients. If they ring you, never answer your phone. Soon they will get used to emailing you. Thanks Tim Ferris for that one!!

    - Overdeliver. This goes without saying but I thought I would mention it. If you do not do the job, you wont get refferals.

    - never charge less then 500 dollars a month and always have time frames. i.e 500 dollars a month for 4 months would get your site with xxx keywords on the front page and i will set you up an autoresponder.

    And here is the kicker. You ready for this?

    OUTSOURCE EVERYTHING YOU CAN!!

    Outsource everything you can

    -Jrox charge 99 dollars to setup their affiliate software and integrate it
    - with seo, linkvana is your friend. use UAW, SYA if you have to
    - get articles written from this forum.

    Right now, I spend about 25% of the money that comes in on outsourcing and pocket the 75% and reduce my workload by about 80%

    Ask any questions you have in the thread and I will answer you.
    GREAT Post!
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Khurram,

      Thanks for coming back at us - quality response. No probs here my friend.
      Signature


      Roger Davis

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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Andy,

      Another one for you -

      'Each knockback is the springboard for your next comeback.'
      Signature


      Roger Davis

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      • Profile picture of the author karunnt
        Hi Khurram,

        Do you provide any ongoing SEO support after their site gets the desired results?

        Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kelvin Brown
    Hi Andy,

    Like your sig. A friend of mind, inspirational speaker, wrote a book called, " A setback is nothing but a setup for a come back". Willie Jolley.

    I did a presentation today to a person of influence. President of a local business association. One of the things I mentioned is that I do not want you or the businesses I speak to try to become webmasters (IM), etc.

    What I want them to understand is that for most the internet is simply a tool. A tool to be used as an extension of your existing business. And that like any other tool you need to understand how it can be used. Only then can you take advantage of it.


    Andrew, I started my first biz directory by accident. The second one I started to get hosting clients. I gather business cards. Any card with no website address, a free website address, or free email, was a lead for me.

    Basically, I added a free basic listing for all the cards I collected. Those that I deemed did not have professional hosting, I would target for followup and sell Verio hosting.

    Kelvin
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    Kelvin Brown

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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Kelvin Brown View Post

      Hi Andy,

      Like your sig. A friend of mind, inspirational speaker, wrote a book called, " A setback is nothing but a setup for a come back". Willie Jolley.

      Kelvin
      I like that - Do you mind if I use it? Come Back wraps up the sentence nicely Thanks.
      Signature

      nothing to see here.

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      • Profile picture of the author Kelvin Brown
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        I like that - Do you mind if I use it? Come Back wraps up the sentence nicely Thanks.

        Hi Andy,

        It is not my permission to give. As, I stated, it is the title of a book.
        I don't mind, but I also, can't say what is legal or not.


        A Setback Is a Setup for a Comeback (Paperback)
        Amazon.com: A Setback Is a Setup for a Comeback:...Amazon.com: A Setback Is a Setup for a Comeback:...
        Kelvin
        Signature

        Kelvin Brown

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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      Originally Posted by Kelvin Brown View Post

      I gather business cards. Any card with no website address, a free website address, or free email, was a lead for me.

      Basically, I added a free basic listing for all the cards I collected. Those that I deemed did not have professional hosting, I would target for followup and sell Verio hosting.
      Very clever idea.

      It also gives you a legitimate excuse for contacting these people "you gave me your card. Jim Jones gave me your card and I listed your business on my site free. But I noticed you don't have your own website listed on your card" etc.

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
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      • Profile picture of the author Kelvin Brown
        That was almost my exact original wording. These days, I promote advertising and consulting.


        The basic approcach is : We listed your business, however, we would like you to logon and verify that the info is correct.

        At this point, the idea is that they are now on the site, and will notice that there free ad does not standout as much as a paid ad.

        Giving them the chance to buy what they want instead of them being sold to.

        Kelvin
        Signature

        Kelvin Brown

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        • Have any of you seen Billy Madison? The scene I'm referring to is when he's [Sandler] preparing for his French exam and he pleads... "Sloooow doooooownnnn-uh".

          This insight is a brand new world for me, but my learning curve is exceptional. Thank you for giving us great focus and common sense when addressing these issues.

          When it costs me more in time than I have to create then outsourcing is the only viable option; thank you for that earlier than later!
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        • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
          Originally Posted by Kelvin Brown View Post

          That was almost my exact original wording. These days, I promote advertising and consulting.


          The basic approcach is : We listed your business, however, we would like you to logon and verify that the info is correct.

          At this point, the idea is that they are now on the site, and will notice that there free ad does not standout as much as a paid ad.

          Giving them the chance to buy what they want instead of them being sold to.

          Kelvin
          It's funny - I've been telling people to do this for several years, I've seen others saying the same thing at seminars - yet people always seem surprised when it's said, like it's a new way of thinking.

          Surely this is just common-sense business that makes sense whether you care about using search engines or not.

          Most of my revenue comes from big customers who pay based on our relationship - the non-personal selling info-products stuff is just an easy way to supplement that, not a replacement - so how come so many people still don't get it?

          If you know that contacting 20 new businesses gets you 1 new recurring client - you know how much work to do to get specific results.

          If you have no idea what the results of your actions are - how do you rationalise your choices about what to do?

          Surely this is just basic logic?

          Andy
          Signature

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          • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
            Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

            Most of my revenue comes from big customers who pay based on our relationship
            Great insight Andy and yes my experience over the years has been exactly the same.

            In some cases a client would pay me many thousands of dollars to implement an idea after we'd got to know each other for 6, 12, 18 months or even longer.

            If you're trying to sell something to a business owner on day one instead of taking the time to really get to know him and his business you'll be settling for crumbs when you could both be feasting at the table.

            Kindest regards,
            Andrew Cavanagh
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  • First of all, to Instructor and rosan9: I think that's a very sensible attitude for you to have about me!

    Check the link in my sig line for more info on what I'm doing with local business promotion. I'm working on a full business plan to implement this idea, including setting up outsources for the chores that need to be done.

    I'm more interested in long-term income, so this is a medium to long term plan...
    Signature
    "The will to prepare to win is more important than the will to win." -- misquoting Coach Vince Lombardi
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  • Profile picture of the author Nicholas Ho
    One quick question.
    how do you go about asking those web designers and etc to refer their clients to you.
    How do you present yourself and what services you should tell them you are offering?

    Do you guys offer money back guarantee or other types of guarantee?

    About traffic driving, how do you guys manage to drive traffic to their sites?

    -Nicholas Ho
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Nicholas Ho View Post

      One quick question.
      how do you go about asking those web designers and etc to refer their clients to you.
      How do you present yourself and what services you should tell them you are offering?

      Do you guys offer money back guarantee or other types of guarantee?

      About traffic driving, how do you guys manage to drive traffic to their sites?

      -Nicholas Ho

      Nicholas - YOU already know these answers.

      You just approach them with a mutually beneficial arrangement offer whatever services you are happy that you can deliver and that compliment what they already do.

      As long as you make it a win-win-win situation it's simple. If they already do on-page seo then you know you don't need to offer it (or only when they can't do it) etc...

      Just be clear what you can do, find what they do and then offer to cover the gap in a way that everyone is comfortable.

      When it comes to SEM you cannot offer any guarantee for results since you don't control the search engines. Don't BS them and promise something which you have to do by getting a really uncompetitive keyword and then BS them that your results are useful - just be honest and clear about what expectations they can have based on your knowledge of what you can produce.

      Remember - these people are not seo-aware. They may have completely unrealisticly high expectations of what can be expected and you don't want to put yourself in a difficult situation by promising things you can't deliver.

      In my experience people who don't understand SEO expect that you will make their business come up on the top of Google (they don't understand keywords) and they want it to happen right away.

      In some cases you may be able to make that happen, but there's no way you can guarantee it, so don't set yourself up for a fall.

      Help them in whatever ways you can confidently provide and set realistic expectations - that's all there is to it.

      Once you have some testimonials and referrals the work keeps coming and is easier to get, but to begin with you need to build on solid foundations and just promise only what you can deliver.

      Andy
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      nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author Nicholas Ho
    Great posts Andrew.
    Thanks for the answers Andy.

    I have another question for anyone who does traffic generation for offline clients.
    When it comes to traffic generation, what type of services do you normally offer.
    In other words, how do you help them to drive traffic to their site?

    How do you outsource them?

    Thanks!
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