Newbies: 5 Real Experts You Should Be Following

by Jason Kanigan 40 replies
20 years ago I graduated from college with a business degree and a diploma in operations management. Opman is about process improvement and factory management. When I encountered this forum and online marketing 14 years later, I was profitable right away because of what I already knew.

And what continues to surprise me is how few newbies know about not just three or four but even ONE of the five main individuals I had followed during those 11 years prior to starting in IM. Even today I encounter people who haven’t heard of Dan Kennedy. It’s shocking. Instead of following some IM guru—or even me—learn about these five people and what they’ve done: you’ll get a lot better business sense.

Why? Because they’re proven. They build real businesses that have stood the test of time. And a couple of them, to my knowledge, never even heard of IM…but they sure knew how to run an operation and make a profit.

So here’s my list of the five genuine experts you should be studying:
  • Jay Abraham
  • Dan Kennedy
  • David Ogilvy
  • Tom Peters
  • Peter Drucker


Jay Abraham is amazing at Joint Ventures, starting businesses with other resources than cash, and the strategy of preeminence. He is big on ideas and energetic on strategy. Any time I need a solid process for positioning, I go straight to Jay Abraham. He is the “newest” of this bunch for me…I’ve only been following him for six years.

Dan Kennedy is a direct response copywriter I’ve been studying since the mid-90s. In my college days we had a 3-hour break Wednesday afternoons, and I went to find anything other than operations management to learn about! This lead to setting up old film projectors to watch black and white Desmond Morris animal behavioral videos…learning about physics and chaos…and discovering copywriting.

At the time, Dan had not joined forces with Bill Glazer yet. He was putting out big yellow-bound workbooks and tiny contrarian hardbound volumes, but there was no Inner Circle—what would be the membership component of his business and the source of his take-off. Sometimes the notion that I’ve been following Dan for over 20 years gives me a bit of a shiver lol. But he’s definitely had the most influence on my serious B2B copywriting style.

David Ogilvy is one of the founders of modern advertising. He passed away in 1999, so I don’t know how much online marketing he got into…but much of the stuff that is taught about headlines, bullets, and point of view in advertising has him as one of the main sources. If you haven’t read Confessions of An Advertising Man, you should pick that up right away.

Tom Peters is one of the two experts I’m going to mention specifically from my operations management days. I was a factory manager at 25 and Tom is part of the reason why. He’s about process improvement, wowing your clients with amazing projects and their results, and being crystal clear on who you are and what you stand for.

You may have heard of “In Search of Excellence”…that’s one of his early books. For a high-speed, wild ride on personal branding, get his “Brand YOU!50”…which I am on my third or fourth copy of as I keep giving them to people.

And finally, Peter Drucker. Much like another factory management guy I was taught about in Opman, W. Edwards Deming—only the father of how we manage Quality today—we never hear about Drucker in IM. But you would do well to learn about process, management, and futurism from him.


These are the five genuine experts who have influenced me the most in my 20+ year career. If you haven’t heard of some of them, I encourage you to start googling right now. Rather than relying on “gurus of the month” for fancy funnel tips that won’t work in the time it takes to ripen a strawberry, you’ll learn foundational skills that will let you build the funnel properly yourself.
#main internet marketing discussion forum #experts #newbies #real
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  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    Cast Pearls Before Swine

    To offer something valuable or good to someone who does not know its value.
    In the early "90s" I had a book of test results from over a century of direct response marketing by big mailorder houses like Sears and JC Penny. The thing was huge! I carried it around for like ten years and basically wore it out. I studied marketing/business for years before I ever ran my first ad ( In the National Enquirer ).

    That was then, this is now.

    Why study when you can have instant, passive income with "no effort or investment?"

    I applaud your effort but it will be mostly lost on this crowd.

    Brent
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  • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
    Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

    Jay Abraham is amazing at Joint Ventures, starting businesses with other resources than cash, and the strategy of preeminence. He is big on ideas and energetic on strategy. Any time I need a solid process for positioning, I go straight to Jay Abraham. He is the “newest” of this bunch for me…I’ve only been following him for six years.
    Hi Jason,

    In the early nineties I was following a student of the Abraham influence called Chris Newton.

    He had a business "Results Corporation" and if you look at the old material you can see the direction from Jay and even the importance of copy in the materials.

    One of the team went out to make a name for themselves and created an idea of relationship-centric marketing - Justin Roff-Marsh.

    You might like to dig out some of his stuff to add to your reading list.

    Justin went on to establish Ballistixs and his sales process engineering methods. You would enjoy some of his ideas.

    This is a link to the resources on his site--->
    Resources - Ballistix

    Best regards,

    Ozi
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Nice list, Jason.

    Although I fear Brent is probably right about it being wasted here.

    For the ones who will benefit, I'd like to offer another name for your list.

    W. Edwards Deming.

    He's known for the idea of continuous process improvement. His work with Japanese manufacturers after WWII led the change from "Made in Japan" as a synonym for "junk" to their current position of high quality.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    Niche aside.... does Floyd Mayweather not belong on this list?
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  • Profile picture of the author NathanielR
    I am brand new to this forum and to internet marketing. This is my first time writing on here as I joined today. But this list is a great one and well worth looking into. I only knew of 2 of them but I will write them all down and get researching. Thank you so much. The classics are always the best place to start.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ben Lim
    Thank you guys for the wonderful recommendations.

    Just wanted to let you know that posts like these aren't totally lost cause. They help people like me become grounded in unwavering principles every time we start to fall prey to "passive income" crowd.
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  • Profile picture of the author jyzdesign1
    Amazing list ..

    Thanks for sharing this.
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  • Profile picture of the author jbsmith
    Really depends on where you are with your business building...having worked as part of and advising many start-up management teams, here you want to study some of the start-up innovators until you get your initial winning product to market - people like Gates, Jobs, Zucks, and John Ma...what you learn here is there are many approaches to start-ups, but you will find invaluable lessons about finding markets, identifying/creating opportunities, initial product development/design and launch, and building a start-up team...

    Then, to make sure you are making the most use of market reach today study the top influencers from Gary V to Grant Cardone through Logan Paul and even people like The Backpack Kid (not because you will like all of these people or even want to emulate them...but to understand HOW and WHY they have reached massive audiences in today's social networking space)

    Of course, the copywriters (as you mentioned) are critical - understanding how to write solid copy is understanding consumer psychology...although the approach to reaching and then converting online is different than sending direct sales letters back in the day...knowing how to turn words (written, audio, video) into sales is critical

    The process improvement stuff I wonder about...I have been a fan of Abraham, Gerber, Drucker, etc...but there day was more around process and efficiency versus agility and growth which is more ciritcal today in our hyper-connected, hyper-competitive marketplace. I like Jay's ideas, but do find there are many other practical teachers than teach the REAL techniques of influencing, branding, JV's, etc...whereas Jay stays too high level. Just my opinion though.

    Anyway - great slew of influential geniuses here, in the end nothing will outdo your own rapid learning through taking massive action.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hellome12
    This isn't really a good list like really amazing with great points mentioned. It's true you can become way more advanced into something when you already know a lot about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author discrat
    Yeah Jay Abraham is plain smart. He has made it his mission to understand how business works. And not just one type of business, but literally thousands of businesses.

    Just incredible mind. I go on YT every so often and just listen to some of his seminars and interview.

    Really excellent stuff
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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    I'd add Gerber's E-Myth Revisited book to your list, Jason. I've come across many who can benefit from it. Still do. A bunch of them are on this forum.

    For those who do knot know Gerber's book: it's about setting up a business.
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  • Profile picture of the author Harsh Vasistha
    I can't say anything about these people you mentioned above but I suggest newbies to only follow two things i.e. hard work and persistence
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      I've known people who've followed only those two things. They died broke after they lived a hard life.

      A long time ago, a guy was going to college and worked full-time, making $600 a month.

      A year later, he was still a full-time student but had a job that paid $900 (more precisely, room and board and $300 in cash) a month and required 15 hours a week of work.

      He followed your two things when he was making $600 a month. He did more when he was making $900/month.

      He was much happier making $900 for a lot less work.

      Originally Posted by Harsh Vasistha View Post

      I can't say anything about these people you mentioned above but I suggest newbies to only follow two things i.e. hard work and persistence
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    Hi Jason.

    All leaders here.

    I'd add; if you follow the core advice of practicing your IM skills, creating helpful content and building connections with top marketers in your niche by promoting them and helping them generously, over the course of years, you will succeed.

    This journey is so simple *but* highly uncomfortable. These 5 icons did not bail on simple when things got uncomfortable, as most people do. Which is exactly why they are icons.

    Thanks for the share.

    Ryan
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    • Profile picture of the author anay
      Real business leaders don't follow anyone, even they don't read much business books -- as far as I know.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
        Originally Posted by anay View Post

        Real business leaders don't follow anyone, even they don't read much business books -- as far as I know.
        You know wrong.

        https://www.huffingtonpost.com/andre...b_9688130.html

        https://www.inc.com/marissa-levin/re...ders-that.html

        https://hbr.org/2012/08/for-those-who-want-to-lead-rea

        Mark
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      • Profile picture of the author DABK
        You don't know far enough.

        Perhaps increasing the width and depth of your knowledge is in order?

        Originally Posted by anay View Post

        Real business leaders don't follow anyone, even they don't read much business books -- as far as I know.
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        • Profile picture of the author anay
          Originally Posted by DABK View Post

          You don't know far enough.

          Perhaps increasing the width and depth of your knowledge is in order?
          You can say so because you're not qualified to work for a high-tech company in U.S and elsewhere.

          Ever gone through any marketing internships with companies like Morgan Stanley? Do you know what they teach?

          Another peanut posted some links, what he doesn't know they are just stories, feel-good stuffs--which have no resemblance to the reality; they publish such stories because some fools consume them. That's all.
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          • Profile picture of the author DABK
            If that was all, leaders who read would not exist and, therefore, I would not have been able to meet any. Since I met some, I have to go with: You're off.

            How do you know the peanut's never met any of the people in those stories?

            What are you basing your strong opinions on?


            Originally Posted by anay View Post

            You can say so because you're not qualified to work for a high-tech company in U.S and elsewhere.

            Ever gone through any marketing internships with companies like Morgan Stanley? Do you know what they teach?

            Another peanut posted some links, what he doesn't know they are just stories, feel-good stuffs--which have no resemblance to the reality; they publish such stories because some fools consume them. That's all.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Thanks for the list Jason. : ) If it's OK I'll add another one: Eben Pagan. (Basically he had sold over £100 Million worth of products in a 10 year period.)

    Here's more info:

    ...

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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Originally Posted by anay View Post

    Real business leaders don't follow anyone, even they don't read much business books -- as far as I know.
    What you don't know won't kill you; what you know for sure that's just plain wrong will bite you in the ass.

    You, my friend, have tooth marks on your tuchis...
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    • Profile picture of the author anay
      Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

      What you don't know won't kill you; what you know for sure that's just plain wrong will bite you in the ass.

      You, my friend, have tooth marks on your tuchis...
      Yes, true, that's why I was offered a tech job at the corporate headquarter of a company which owns more than 90% market share in search biz, and I'm doing very well. Lets meet at Mountain View some day. What's your thought?
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by anay View Post

        Yes, true, that's why I was offered a tech job at the corporate headquarter of a company which owns more than 90% market share in search biz, and I'm doing very well. Lets meet at Mountain View some day. What's your thought?
        Must be a hell of a commute from Kolkata, India, where it appears you are posting from.

        You wouldn't be related to a banned member using the name anayb, would you. He was an arrogant SOB, too.

        BTW, you never said you actually got the job, did you?
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        • Profile picture of the author anay
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          Must be a hell of a commute from Kolkata, India, where it appears you are posting from.

          You wouldn't be related to a banned member using the name anayb, would you. He was an arrogant SOB, too.

          BTW, you never said you actually got the job, did you?
          alright, then the meet together after Diwali (a festival in India) in U.S? Send me a pm with your contact and we will meet over there. Any problems, fat man? Your memory isn't working at all. You're too old to fight with me. If you got guts, lets meet.
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            Originally Posted by anay View Post

            alright, then the meet together after Diwali (a festival in India) in U.S? Send me a pm with your contact and we will meet over there. Any problems, fat man? Your memory isn't working at all. You're too old to fight with me. If you got guts, lets meet.
            "Fat man"?

            If that's the best you have, you aren't worth my time.
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            • Profile picture of the author DABK
              He could have done worse, he could have called said, big-boned-in-the-stomach area man. Or weight-impaired.

              Give him some credit for doing jackass properly!

              Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

              "Fat man"?

              If that's the best you have, you aren't worth my time.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
            Originally Posted by anay View Post

            Send me a pm with your contact and we will meet over there. Any problems, fat man? Your memory isn't working at all. You're too old to fight with me. If you got guts, lets meet.
            I used to be a bit like that when I was younger. (Because I was insecure etc ...)

            And treating People like that will only make you more "miserable." John is a very well respected and established member of WF and this is your opportunity to take responsibility and apologize.

            Jonathan
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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          Must be a hell of a commute from Kolkata, India, where it appears you are posting from.

          You wouldn't be related to a banned member using the name anayb, would you. He was an arrogant SOB, too.

          BTW, you never said you actually got the job, did you?
          LOL, I thought I smelled something. I thought it was him but then looked at Post count and knew he had more than that. So he got banned, huh ??? OKay then this makes sense.. the guy who always was gloating and putting down everyone else and going on and on how working in the corporate tech industry was so above all the low
          lifes in here lol

          Looks like a second ban is possibly on its way
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by anay View Post

        Yes, true, that's why I was offered a tech job at the corporate headquarter of a company which owns more than 90% market share in search biz, and I'm doing very well. Lets meet at Mountain View some day. What's your thought?
        There is only one thing better than getting a tech job at a corporate headquarters... And that would be getting hired as a consultant for a corporate headquarters that happens to be in the tech industry.

        Just remember.. there are some here that have gone passed " Offered " and have actually been there done that.. or are on the next rung up and don't work FOR them, but work WITH them.
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  • also check out anik singal fred lam frank kern and robert kiyosaki these people will change your opinion about money and internet marketing its self
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  • Profile picture of the author David Tacadena
    Sorry, I have to ask..any women? Even for numbers 6-10? Would also like to hear from female experts.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
      Originally Posted by David Tacadena View Post

      Sorry, I have to ask..any women? Even for numbers 6-10? Would also like to hear from female experts.
      Jill Konrath for sales, but I only discovered her a couple years ago.




      I think women are more humble than men in general. So they don't put themselves out there as much even though they are more tenacious. One of my best employee experiences was working for a woman, for four years.

      Something to remember is that this is MY list. It isn't a "balanced approach" or some such nonsense. It's great people want to add to the list, but it's my experience I'm sharing, because that's all I can share. The people I listed have impacted me the most...these are people I've been following for as long as 20+ years, not just some I found in the past six months...and as men I'm sure they marketed themselves more strongly, especially in the pre-Internet era.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rose Anderson
    A few women marketers who have inspired me:


    Rachel Rofe

    Tiffany Lambert

    Alice Seba

    Michelle Schroeder-Gardner

    Rose
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonTheFreeman
    I guess I have a lot of reading to do. Thanks Jason!
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  • Profile picture of the author dragoshs
    Jay Abraham... well said my friend
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