Stumbling block: pricing

24 replies
Four years in the learnin'-an'-making', The Gaffer Wealth System is about to have a proper bum marketing launch.

But one area is a complete mystery: best pricing. I'd appreciate folks having a look at the site and giving pricing comments.

The product had a weak-kneed launch at $67 with very little publicity (and very few sales). Then prior to doing a university presentation the price was raised to $127 but discounted for students.

Here's the thing (sorry to sound egotistical): It is probably the best course on the market for conservative beginning investors willing to be patient. I prepared it mindful of my own painful beginnings 55 years ago in the hope of preventing others from going through the same sorts of outright gambles and pain that I went through and that I have seen hundreds of others go through.

But it will help no one if it does not sell - and young adults cannot typically afford $127. I'm thinking of slashing the price to $27, at least for a limited time, but really have no idea at what price sales will be maximized in terms of quantity and return. At $27 (or $47, $17 or $7) would people think it too cheap to have value?

Advice would be appreciated. The site is lunchwithgaffer, listed in the signature block.

The three most helpful answers will get the entire system free!

I also have an 80+ page ebook, Estate Organization Made Easy, coming out in the next four to six weeks. It is a collection of forms and text that is a step beyond a will for people who plan to be specific about funeral arrangements, who gets Aunt Sue's antique china set, and where all the investments are - to name just a few. These are things an executor needs to know in addition to what's in a will. Sounds dreary but the thing actually has flashes of humor!

$7 or $17 to get the greatest return? Different, older audience.

I will appreciate all advice. I'm sure this is a universal problem.

Sydney
#block #pricing #stumbling
  • Profile picture of the author acedalright
    I think $27 is a really great product price, it doesn't sound to cheap, but is perfectly affordable for most people.

    Good luck with the launch
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by acedalright View Post

      I think $27 is a really great product price, it doesn't sound to cheap, but is perfectly affordable for most people.

      Good luck with the launch
      Thanks for the input. It will WAY over deliver, and that's good, but affiliates will not bother with it. Maybe that doesn't matter. There have been no affiliate sales anyhow!
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by acedalright View Post

      I think $27 is a really great product price, it doesn't sound to cheap, but is perfectly affordable for most people.

      Good luck with the launch
      I have sent you a private message. Thank you for your help!

      Sydney
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      • Profile picture of the author kf
        Hi Sydney,

        Since it's a system, why not develop a membership-type site around it - given your audience the material may be more palatable (and useful) delivered in smaller chunks, plus the entry fee then becomes much more manageable.

        I'd look at $10-30 monthly fixed-term membership that you can then spin into a more advanced course once they finish the first.

        As for the second product, estate planning is serious business, for people with deeper pockets. Without seeing what you have to offer, I think your price point should be in the $67 range or higher. IMO, bargain-basement pricing will affect their perception of value.

        Good luck with it all.

        Cheers,
        Kate
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        • Profile picture of the author tremayne
          Originally Posted by kf View Post

          Hi Sydney,

          Since it's a system, why not develop a membership-type site around it - given your audience the material may be more palatable (and useful) delivered in smaller chunks, plus the entry fee then becomes much more manageable.

          I'd look at $10-30 monthly fixed-term membership that you can then spin into a more advanced course once they finish the first.

          As for the second product, estate planning is serious business, for people with deeper pockets. Without seeing what you have to offer, I think your price point should be in the $67 range or higher. IMO, bargain-basement pricing will affect their perception of value.

          Good luck with it all.

          Cheers,
          Kate
          Thank you Kate!

          The membership comes with the third product - a technical analysis ebook - and at just $4.95 a month!!! People are lazy and the membership will give them weekly buy/sell signals on 1,000 or so stocks. Tremendous value that people will not believe until they try it.

          I am going after volume and stickiness.

          Why that price? (It was going to be $47/mo.) Have you seen Value Trojan? See the calculator and you will see why. Get Super Affiliates and CPA Networks to Send YOU Floods of Visitors!. I will make much more money this way.

          Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
    Just don't sell yourself short my friend . it is a lot easier to come down on a price than it is to go up.

    If the product sales for $27 it may be hard to ever get the price back up.

    Try training your affiliates . I did this not too long ago. I gave them a $30 discount on my affiliate training course . Those that sold one of my products not only got their commission on the sale but also their full purchase price back for the course .

    Now here is the kicker .

    I had my accountant take the money that I got out of the course and invest it in a high yield savings account . I don't know what type of account (that is what I pay her for) .

    This was a 90 day program with a get no money back for 90 day guarantee. I was still getting a little over $30 each from those that sold one of my products (and the few that didn't but requested a refund ) in interest .
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by Troy_Phillips View Post

      Just don't sell yourself short my friend . it is a lot easier to come down on a price than it is to go up.

      If the product sales for $27 it may be hard to ever get the price back up.
      Hi Troy!

      I figure 1,000 sales at $27 bring me more cash than 1,000 lookers at $127. I may be wrong but the change has already been made and it appears to be working.

      There is one other thing: Both products are needed by a lot of people. I am almost 76 and I want them to be useful to as many people as possible; after a certain level, money is not so important, although I certainly will not turn it down! What is more important is that I know I can help a lot of people who would otherwise be as lost as I once was.

      There are instructions that when I die the products are to be given away free! I already give one free to universities as a thank-you gift to their donors.
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      • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
        Sir I think you already know the answer to a question a lot more important than what a lot of us on here can grasp.

        I count it an honor to be associated with you if it is only through the wf .

        Hats off and God speed

        Troy .


        Originally Posted by tremayne View Post

        Hi Troy!

        I figure 1,000 sales at $27 bring me more cash than 1,000 lookers at $127. I may be wrong but the change has already been made and it appears to be working.

        There is one other thing: Both products are needed by a lot of people. I am almost 76 and I want them to be useful to as many people as possible; after a certain level, money is not so important, although I certainly will not turn it down! What is more important is that I know I can help a lot of people who would otherwise be as lost as I once was.

        There are instructions that when I die the products are to be given away free! I already give one free to universities as a thank-you gift to their donors.
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        • Profile picture of the author tremayne
          Originally Posted by Troy_Phillips View Post

          Sir I think you already know the answer to a question a lot more important than what a lot of us on here can grasp.

          I count it an honor to be associated with you if it is only through the wf .

          Hats off and God speed

          Troy .
          Hello Troy!

          I'm just stumbling along like everyone else, hoping to find the recipe that works for me!

          All the best,

          Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel_Pereira
    Hey Sydney,

    I'll just give all of my honest opinions:

    First, I hate your headline because it doesn't read right in my mind:

    "How You Can Retire
    with $1,000,000
    on Pocket Change You Waste"

    Sorry, but I had to read it 3 times before it made since to me, it's just a weird sentence. Even just the cliche "How You Can Retire with $1,000,000 In The Bank" sounds like it would catch more people's attention...

    except, I'm young (27) and you say your target audience is young, so to me, the whole word "retire" is boring. Very boring!

    Even though I have the honest goal to "retire in a way" when I am 30, I don't want to purchase a system on teaching that seems like it is simply talking about preparing for a "smart" retirement. I wanna be rich now now now! Maybe better wording would be telling people this is how to "retire early with a million in the bank"

    But, you know what I mean, we young folk have no patience, we wanna be rich today. So talking about (eventually) retiring rich is a boring thing to me. So the few amount of sales that you have made must have come from people who really liked the free information that you taught in your previous presentations.

    Here's what you told us as background info:

    "It is probably the best course on the market for conservative beginning investors willing to be patient."

    That's great!

    But my advice to you is to not "market" the program telling people that it is for those who are "patient," because i ain't patient!

    I do appreciate great information that is going to make me rich though, even if it is going to take 5 to 10 years to make it happen. So, what I am saying here is that you should market it as a product that just makes you rich in a conservative way. Maybe you could start off with a 2 part headline for the sales copy, something like this if you still want to use the theme of retirement:


    PLAN A: Make Sure Your Living The Life, Taking Exotic Vacations, And Driving Expensive Cars, All While Enjoying An Early Retirement!


    PLAN B: No Retirement, Drive A Beat-up Truck, Still Working At WalMart At At Age 65!

    Another thing I have to warn you about is your current strategy of having the discounted price at the beginning of the web page. This scares people off from my experience! Whenever I have mentioned any price at all in the beginning of the sales letter I have seen fewer opt-ins and fewer buyers. The only times I see it work to mention the lower price first is when people go to the page knowing it is for an "amazing deal" at an "amazingly low price." Like when many of the gurus will do a "fire sale" and give you $2,000 worth of stuff for $9.

    Another problem I saw with your web page was this:

    There is no buy link on your home page.

    If what you are setting up is a sales page, then why not make it a sales page?

    I really have no idea why people have to click on different links to learn about the program you are selling, view testimonials, etc. It's just a big confusing if you ask me.

    Alright, now for the price:

    $7

    But I might not sell everything for $7. Just a lot of it.

    Anything around $30 will work well also if you don't want to sell it for that cheap. But if you can convert a high number of people into $7, $17, $27, or $37, then you can back end them for much higher priced stuff.

    You can easily create some DVD sets and CD sets and then sell those on the back end and that is where you will really make your money, but for starters, you need a very low "barrier of entry." The lower the barrier of entry, the more sales you will generally make. We see this all the time on the Warrior forum where someone will sell 50 copies of something at $1 each to the next 50 Warriors.

    Obviously you don't make anything in this situation, but you do get a customer list going. With this customer list you gain their trust by giving them something amazing for an extremely low price. Then when you tell them that they can buy your 5 CD set for $97, many of them jump on it because they know that you always provide great info to your buyers. Will a larger customer list, I think you will make more money overall since you can sell them whatever trainings you want forever.

    You could even take your buyer leads and send them over to an investors coaching floor that sells high ticket investor coaching. A buyer lead to many of these coaching floors is easily worth $30 to $40 to them.

    O.K., those are my thoughts.

    Thanks for letting me critic your sales page! Sometimes I feel like people on the forum give me permission to be critical and it helps me relieve some stress !








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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Hi Daniel!

      That's a deep study and I thank you for the time and effort you put into it. It is especially valuable because it comes from someone in my target market. The headline actually came from one of the top marketers in the business.

      Like you, in my 20s I wanted to make a million in five minutes with no work. That's what led to my first mistake in the stock market at age 20.

      I cannot teach cautious investing for those who want to spend their profits in early retirement. (Well...I can, but young adults couldn't afford the admission price! Wait for my third product next year!)

      I tried so many things when I was your age that I missed the best of youth and friendships and was broke far more often than I should have been. Fast money does not come easily; what I recommend is not fast but it *is* easy. For most people it does not come easily in the IM field, however easy some people suggest it is. Many more fail than succeed.

      I will look carefully at your suggestions but I refuse to say anything in my copy I do not believe. Sure, you can retire early, but there is a price. There is always a price.

      The information I offer comes from 55 years' experience, some of that experience bitter. My job, as I see it, is to help others find a shortcut to avoid my early mistakes. I have to leave the teaching of people to become millionaires in five years to people who claim to know how; I do not - but next year's product WILL show people with a more aggressive temperament how to average at least 20% a year with virtually no risk.

      That's one way to become a millionaire in a hurry - but not on $6.67 a day!

      I will print off your post and give it some serious thought - and in my book your effort is worth a free copy of the system. I will IM you with the address and an access code.

      Many thanks for giving an honest opinion.

      Sydney
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel_Pereira
        Originally Posted by tremayne View Post

        Hi Daniel!

        The headline actually came from one of the top marketers in the business.

        Sydney

        Hey Sydney,

        Wow, and thanks for the product!

        Yes, I agree with others in this thread, you definitely have enough material her to make a huge members area for a continuity offer. Maybe something like $27 per month with weekly teleseminars or something.

        Anyway, I asked my wife about the headline (she's 25)

        I asked here if she could read something and tell me if it made sense to her. At first she said "yes, that is very confusing, I don't even know that it means," but then 1 second later she said, "oh, ok now I know what it means."

        Basically, she read it exactly how I read it, at first I was confused and then read it a second and third time for it to make sense. Hope that helps out with the headline! I'm interested to see if others think it is a confusing headline at first.

        O.K., so yes, I'll be taking a look at the materials later on, but yes, I would defninitely have a low barrier of entry and maybe turn things into a continuity type offer. You could have people pay $1.97 for the first month or something and then hit them up with continued value for the $27, $37, $47, or even $97 per month. But I think the big thing with the pricing is that you'll want to have a low barrier of entry and then make your money on the backend.

        Thanks again!
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        • Profile picture of the author tremayne
          Originally Posted by Daniel_Pereira View Post

          Hey Sydney,

          I would defninitely have a low barrier of entry and maybe turn things into a continuity type offer. You could have people pay $1.97 for the first month or something and then hit them up with continued value for the $27, $37, $47, or even $97 per month. But I think the big thing with the pricing is that you'll want to have a low barrier of entry and then make your money on the backend.

          Thanks again!
          I agree totally with the low barrier to entry. The system is, after all, aimed at people starting out in life who have all kinds of debt and modest income.

          As you will soon discover, there is already a 16-part ecourse as part of the system. It is delivered that way to keep drilling confirmation message into your head over a period of months, unlike a book you read and forget.

          Maybe I should stick to my knitting (writing and speaking) and find a marketer to partner with???

          But in my market I think $27, $37, $47 or $97 a month would be too rich and a mistake. If you have seen Mike Hill's current Value Trojan (and especially Value Trojan Calculator) I think you might understand why I would make much more money and reach many more people at $4.95 a month. It's all about retention and the retention is much longer at $4.95.

          I would appreciate an understanding of what you (and your wife) thought the headline meant initially; how were the words confusing? Since I wrote it, it makes perfect sense to me - but I'm not selling to me!

          Sydney

          PS: I *could* be serious about the right marketing partner. All these projects are getting a bit overwhelming as a one-man band! I'm even in discussion with a writer to help take some of the load. My intent as money allows is to build a team, each expert in his or her own field.
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          • Profile picture of the author tremayne
            Originally Posted by tremayne View Post

            If you have seen Mike Hill's current Value Trojan (and especially Value Trojan Calculator) I think you might understand why I would make much more money and reach many more people at $4.95 a month. It's all about retention and the retention is much longer at $4.95.
            That was supposed to read Value Trojan promotion.
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          • Profile picture of the author Daniel_Pereira
            Originally Posted by tremayne View Post

            I would appreciate an understanding of what you (and your wife) thought the headline meant initially; how were the words confusing? Since I wrote it, it makes perfect sense to me - but I'm not selling to me!

            What I thought after reading it the first time was that the sentence did not make sense. Then I tried to figure out why. I realized it was the word "on" that was throwing me off. And the reason why the word "on" was throwing me off was because you either "retire with" or "retire on" but you don't usually "retire with and on" in the same sentence.

            Don't know if that makes sense or not. But, here is what would have made more sense to me reading it the first time:

            "How You Can Retire With $1,000,000 Worth Of Pocket Change You Can Waste!"

            or...

            "How You Can Retire With Millions Of Extra Dollars That You Can Waste!"

            But, I might not necessarily want to use these headlines anyway even though when it does make more sense it does seem a little bit more exciting. Hope this helps. I would seriously poll a few family members, friends and warrior members to see if the headline makes sense at first to them or not. And I would start a whole different thread with suggestions just on the headline. Good luck!
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            • Profile picture of the author tremayne
              Originally Posted by Daniel_Pereira View Post

              Don't know if that makes sense or not. But, here is what would have made more sense to me reading it the first time:

              "How You Can Retire With $1,000,000 Worth Of Pocket Change You Can Waste!"

              or...

              "How You Can Retire With Millions Of Extra Dollars That You Can Waste!"
              Daniel!

              NOW I understand what the problem is! You think I want to create money people can waste!

              Not at all!

              Here's where I'm coming from: Many people waste, for example, $6.67 a day without even noticing it. What does Starbucks latte cost these days? Two or three Cokes? Nachos? You know the stuff I mean: little things we never think twice about. Yet we say we have no money for some pretty important things.

              $6.67 a day is $200 a month. A 25-year-old saving $200 a month at 10% will have more than $1.1 million at age 65 provided certain simple rules are followed. Those rules are laid out in The Gaffer Wealth System.

              What the headline is meant to convey is that the money we waste every day can be invested to result in some serious wealth, depending on the age at which we start. (For a 20-year-old it is $3.50 a day; for a 29-year-old, $10 a day to reach the million-plus mark at 65.)

              It's straightforward maths. The secret is in how to gain a minimum net 10% long term average. It is no secret, really; I have simply put a series of proven strategies together in a way that produces the results using 80 years' of S&P 500 data and logic.

              I will take another look at the headline to see what can be done. Thank you for opening my eyes!

              I will also respond to your PM a little later today after I get today's task dealt with.

              All the best,

              Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author tremayne
    I just had another thought! If anyone cares to join Daniel in doing a review of Lunch with Gaffer - Home your input would be welcome.

    In the end, I have to make up my own mind whether to change or what to change, but the more input I have the more helpful it should be.

    Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author Kenster
    I hate making negative comments, but your comment about making at least 20% per annum with virtually no risk makes me a bit skeptical, but thats neither here nor there. (sorry, I was in finance and investment banking for a while so are probably more skeptical about this than most)

    In terms of price, you really need to do your research with your prospects and also split test at different prices. Depending on the volume of your traffic, you may be able to get a good idea on optimal price point based in no time.


    Seem like a nice guy and are trying to offer great value which is obviosuly the key to any good sustainable product. I think you'll do well. Good luck
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by Kenster View Post

      I hate making negative comments, but your comment about making at least 20% per annum with virtually no risk makes me a bit skeptical, but that's neither here nor there. (sorry, I was in finance and investment banking for a while so are probably more skeptical about this than most)
      You should be skeptical of anyone touting "at least 20%". From my own standpoint, I should have kept my mouth shut until I had proof!

      I am having a program written that will then be tested with the 30 DJIA stocks for at least a 20-year period (more if I can get the back data). Whatever comes out of that, given the variety of markets in that time, should be pretty convincing proof of whether it's 20%, more, or less than 20%.

      I developed a program in 1985-8 that resulted in my first best selling investment book in 1987 (Take the Guessing Out of Investing, Prentice-Hall (Canada). That program was tested on some 500 Canadian and 200 U.S stocks and had a return of slightly better than 20% over some seven years.

      The new program is simpler, less active, reduces expenses, and should cut out the majority of losses incurred by the previous program.

      I, too, was in the investment industry. I was one of the top-earning brokers in eastern Canada (where there is a lot of competition) for 15 years.

      While it is way too early to know the average results it will produce over time, it is a way for the market itself to tell us over time what action to take with particular stocks. It is very far from day trading but it is not buy-and-hold. Each stock will be traded on average every 24-30 months.

      Skeptical or not, after the how-to book comes out, I expect a great many people will take me up on weekly updates for $4.95. That's my hope, anyhow!
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel_Pereira
    Sent you a PM
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel_Pereira
    Ha! I get the headline now! I though I got it before, but now I understand what it is really supposed to say. Yep, I would survey others and see what they think.
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by Daniel_Pereira View Post

      Ha! I get the headline now! I though I got it before, but now I understand what it is really supposed to say. Yep, I would survey others and see what they think.
      Now that the explanation is out there, I look forward to seeing what others say, too!

      Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author David Wolfman
    Ask your audience! Tell them what's inside your product and what would they pay for this info. They will tell you exactly.

    You can form a survey using surveymonkey.com and in additional questions ask about age and if they're students. This will show you which specific demographics can afford full price and who needs discount or promo offer.
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