November Warrior Forum update: ohhh

by Gabriel Administrator 58 replies
So it's happening.... we are revamping!



After so many years dealing with a marketplace that looks from 2001, it was time for the Warrior Forum to have a new makeover.

You deserve it. We deserve it... and for the future of the forum, I believe the new design it's going to bring a new vibe.

So we are excited to announce that we have decided to make some changes...
the first one is the bad news (and good news at the same time)

We are increasing the fees for the Marketplace. Mainly we want to bring a higher quality of sellers and with the new marketplace WSO will get a better exposure and we believe the conversion for each seller will increase.

New pricing:
$40 post
$40 bump
$75 triple bump pack
$100 sticky

Pricing will not apply to everyone. It will be mainly for new sellers. We will reward old members and regular WSO members

So what will the new Warrior Forum Market Place look like?

Well here you go... you can have a look at what we are working on.






Overall we are excited to see this happening, personally, I have witnessed the hard work and the hundreds of hours spent by the team to bring something you guys will enjoy using.


We have super high hopes for the new marketplace and hopefully, you guys will embrace the new style.

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How the marketplace will behave will be announce later on.... this is mainly a draft so we just want to share...
#main internet marketing discussion forum #forum #november #ohhh #update #warrior
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  • Profile picture of the author discrat
    Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post

    So it's happening.... we are revamping!

    After so many years dealing with a marketplace that looks from 2001, it was time for the Warrior Forum to have a new makeover.

    You deserve it. We deserve it... and for the future of the forum, I believe the new design it's going to bring a new vibe.

    So we are excited to announce that we have decided to make some changes...
    the first one is the bad news (and good news at the same time)

    We are increasing the fees for the Marketplace. Mainly we want to bring a higher quality of sellers and with the new marketplace WSO will get a better exposure and we believe the conversion for each seller will increase.

    New pricing:
    $40 post
    $40 bump
    $75 triple bump pack
    $100 sticky


    So what will the new Warrior Forum Market Place will look like?

    Well here you go... you can have a look at what we are working on.






    Overall we are excited to see this happening, personally, I have witnessed the hard work and the hundreds of hours spent by the team to bring something you guys will enjoy using.

    We have super high hopes for the new marketplace and hopefully, you guys will embrace the new style.
    Thank you, Gab.

    Yes, I think raising the Rates will be good. I think it will deter some of the "quick hit" Warriors who put out WSOs after WSOs. I saw one guy the other day who had like 12 or 13 that I saw going on. They were priced at $2 or so. Of course I could not see the actual Course because I didn'tt feel like buying it, but based on his Salespage it did not look like it would be very high quality.

    I think getting the price up will only encourage those Warriors who are creating high quality, long term evergreen products to keep creating those products and promoting them in the Marketplace with an eye on long term promotion.

    Not just put up some half- assed products and concentrating on Volume like I've seen some do. And then going on to their next half ass creation the following week.



    - Robert Andrew
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  • Profile picture of the author discrat
    P.S. Whats the triple post Bump ?

    Paying ahead of time and using them at our discretion whenever we want ??
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  • Profile picture of the author rhealy29
    A rate increase to try and price out low quality sellers is one thing, but the new layout leaves me sceptical.

    Why the big header image? It eats up a lot of space. And does each offer really need its own image? Is that going to really add anything?

    The reason I ask is the new layout isn't necessarily going to be any more functional, but I worry that it IS going to limit the number of offers that show on the first page due to space usage, perhaps in an effort to increase bump revenue.

    Will the new layout have fewer offers per page than the current one?

    Why the desire to make the WSO section look more like, I don't even know, a Wordpress featured post area? I question whether the new form will sacrifice function.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by rhealy29 View Post

      A rate increase to try and price out low quality sellers is one thing, but the new layout leaves me sceptical.

      Why the big header image? It eats up a lot of space. And does each offer really need its own image? Is that going to really add anything?

      The reason I ask is the new layout isn't necessarily going to be any more functional, but I worry that it IS going to limit the number of offers that show on the first page due to space usage, perhaps in an effort to increase bump revenue.

      Will the new layout have fewer offers per page than the current one?


      Why the desire to make the WSO section look more like, I don't even know, a Wordpress featured post area? I question whether the new form will sacrifice function.
      Yes, nice observation and a crucial question. Surely they would not raise prices and at the same time actually have less WSOs on the front page ???
      Quite honestly, I think a lot of people would be exiting real quickly in using this as a Marketplace if that is the case.
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      • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
        Administrator
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        I think a lot of people would be exiting real quickly in using this as a Marketplace if that is the case.
        We are willing to take the risk.
        Signature

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        Gabriel Machuret
        Head of Warrior Forum

        If you aren't happy with the Warrior Forum PM me. I want to know about it.

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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post

          We are willing to take the risk.
          So by this you are saying there will be less WSOs listed on the first page. compared to originally ??

          Gab, I assume you have sold a WSO ? or maybe not ??

          My point is ....being on the first page and maximizing your time on it ( and trafic has a lot to do with that of course) is crucial to Sellers. But if you keep the variable of traffic unchanging as it is now all the sudden you decrease the amount of spots on the first page ( and on top of that increase the price) well can't you see how a seller could view that ?

          Does that make sense what I'm saying ??
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          • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
            Administrator
            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

            So by this you are saying there will be less WSOs listed on the first page. compared to originally ??

            Gab, I assume you have sold a WSO ? or maybe not ??

            My point is ....being on the first page and maximizing your time on it ( and trafic has a lot to do with that of course) is crucial to Sellers. But if you keep the variable of traffic unchanging as it is now all the sudden you decrease the amount of spots on the first page ( and on top of that increase the price) well can't you see how a seller could view that ?

            Does that make sense what I'm saying ??
            I sold WSO in the past. I bought my 1st house thanks to income from the Warrior Forum... so I get the concentp...

            I'm not 100% sure about the amount of WSO on the homepage but I think they will the same amount. (need to confirm how the "flow" will go")

            To be honest we just show you a draft of the concept, so is just a draft . Not the final product.
            Signature

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            Gabriel Machuret
            Head of Warrior Forum

            If you aren't happy with the Warrior Forum PM me. I want to know about it.

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  • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
    The design looks great.

    However, raising the posting price isn't going to push out low quality sellers.

    If someone really wants to list a WSO and they can come up with $20, they can come up with $40. In fact, this could also work in the opposite way as well. For instance, suppose someone creates a brilliant product but they simply cannot come up with $40 to list it? Sometimes money is that tight. Now the marketplace, and the forum members, lose out on a great product because the creator simply didn't have an extra $40 to list it.

    I'm not really sure how raising the posting price corresponds with better quality sellers and products, but whatever. IMO, that's incredibly steep to list a product. There are marketplaces with ten times the traffic that don't charge a a fifth of what you're asking to list a product.

    Wouldn't it just be better to say that it's about increasing revenue so that you can make the marketplace better? Personally, I have no problem with that.

    However, I think raising the price may be shooting yourself in the foot. Sellers can list their products on networks like JVZoo, Warrior Plus, and others for free or next to nothing upfront and get just as much exposure (If not more).

    I think it might be better if you adopted their business model, which is to take a small percentage of every sale rather than charge an upfront fee to list a single product.

    The truth is that you don't currently have the traffic or marlket infiltration in the WSO section to justify charging $40 to list a single offer. The problem is also compounded by the fact that a true WSO is supposed to be a discounted version of a product available to members of the Warrior Forum. This makes it even less likely that a vendor will pay $40 per listing.

    You're not going to attract a higher quality vendor by doubling the listing price. You're just going to have fewer offers, which translates into less selection, which means even less eyeballs on the offers that are listed.

    My opinion -- Work on building engagement and traffic in the WSO section back to where it was before and then you can justify a price hike.

    Many marketers have stopped listing in that section due to the $20 listing price and moreso because the internal forum traffic just isn't there anymore. Double it and you will only alienate more potential vendors.

    That's just my two cents. Maybe I'm wrong.
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    • Profile picture of the author vedremo
      Originally Posted by nicheblogger75 View Post


      However, raising the posting price isn't going to push out low quality sellers.

      If someone can come up with $20 they can come up with $40.

      I'm not really sure how raising the posting price corresponds with better quality products, but whatever.

      Wouldn't it just be better to say that it's about increasing revenue so that you can make the marketplace better? Personally, I have no problem with that.

      However, I think raising the price may be shooting yourself in the foot. Sellers can list their products on networks like JVZoo, Warrior Plus, and others for free or next to nothing upfront and get just as much exposure (If not more).

      I think it might be better if you adopted their business model, which is to take a small percentage of every sale rather than charge an upfront fee to list a single product.

      The truth is that you don't currently have the traffic or marlket infiltration in the WSO section to justify charging $40 to list a single offer. The problem is also compounded by the fact that a true WSO is supposed to be a discounted version of a product available to members of the Warrior Forum. This makes it even less likely that a vendor will pay $40 per listing.

      You're not going to attract a higher quality vendor by doubling the listing price. You're just going to have fewer offers, which translates into less selection, which means even less eyeballs on the offers that are listed.

      My opinion -- Work on building engagement and traffic in the WSO section back to where it was before and then you can justify a price hike.

      Many marketers have stopped listing in that section due to the $20 listing price. Double it and you will only alienate more potential vendors.

      That's just my two cents. Maybe I'm wrong.
      I agree 100% as a seller.

      At least see if this new stylesheet increases engagement before claiming it is worth 200%. The current stylesheet for example, is worth ~30% of previous one, yet the bump fees do not correlate to that change. Seem to be on a mission to drive sellers away, when in fact, we both want the same thing: more customers for us means more business for you.
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      • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
        Originally Posted by vedremo View Post

        I agree 100% as a seller.

        At least see if this new stylesheet increases engagement before claiming it is worth 200%. The current stylesheet for example, is worth ~30% of previous one, yet the bump fees do not correlate to that change. Seem to be on a mission to drive sellers away, when in fact, we both want the same thing: more customers for us means more business for you.
        The new design looks good, I'll say that.

        I'll also say that it's not necessary, because there isn't anything wrong with the way it's set up now.

        One thing I can't understand is why they would want to use so much space above the fold for what amounts to nothing more than a fancy header.

        Wouldn't it be better to showcase offers above the fold instead? Especially if people are now going to have to pay $40 for a single listing.
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        • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
          Administrator
          Originally Posted by nicheblogger75 View Post

          The new design looks good, I'll say that.

          I'll also say that it's not necessary, because there isn't anything wrong with the way it's set up now.

          One thing I can't understand is why they would want to use so much space above the fold for what amounts to nothing more than a fancy header.

          Wouldn't it be better to showcase offers above the fold instead? Especially if people are now going to have to pay $40 for a single listing.
          Good feedback about the fold.... and the "fancy header"
          I will pass it to the design team
          Signature

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          Gabriel Machuret
          Head of Warrior Forum

          If you aren't happy with the Warrior Forum PM me. I want to know about it.

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      • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
        Administrator
        Originally Posted by vedremo View Post

        I agree 100% as a seller.

        At least see if this new stylesheet increases engagement before claiming it is worth 200%. The current stylesheet for example, is worth ~30% of previous one, yet the bump fees do not correlate to that change. Seem to be on a mission to drive sellers away, when in fact, we both want the same thing: more customers for us means more business for you.
        I think statements like

        Mission to drive sellers away - Make no sense.

        Not sure how do you think our goal is to drive people away.

        But thanks for the feedback
        Signature

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        Gabriel Machuret
        Head of Warrior Forum

        If you aren't happy with the Warrior Forum PM me. I want to know about it.

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        • Profile picture of the author vedremo
          Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post

          I think statements like

          Mission to drive sellers away - Make no sense.

          Not sure how do you think our goal is to drive people away.

          But thanks for the feedback
          Instead of dismissing comments and people, I invite you to read the comment and acknowledge the issues raised. Otherwise, it comes across as disrespectful.
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          • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
            Administrator
            Originally Posted by vedremo View Post

            Instead of dismissing comments and people, I invite you to read the comment and acknowledge the issues raised. Otherwise, it comes across as disrespectful.
            I read the comment . if it was disrespectful then ... I'm sorry .
            Not sure what was disrespectful about it.

            I'm well aware this is not going to be a change everyone will embrace. We believe it will help in the long run.
            I'm sure many sellers will want to leave... and I'm also sure some new sellers will come.

            Things come and go... so overall I'm optimistic .
            Signature

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            Gabriel Machuret
            Head of Warrior Forum

            If you aren't happy with the Warrior Forum PM me. I want to know about it.

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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by nicheblogger75 View Post

      The design looks great.

      However, raising the posting price isn't going to push out low quality sellers.

      If someone really wants to list a WSO and they can come up with $20, they can come up with $40. In fact, this could also work in the opposite way as well. For instance, suppose someone creates a brilliant product but they simply cannot come up with $40 to list it? Sometimes money is that tight. Now the marketplace, and the forum members, lose out on a great product because the creator simply didn't have an extra $40 to list it.

      I'm not really sure how raising the posting price corresponds with better quality sellers and products, but whatever. IMO, that's incredibly steep to list a product. There are marketplaces with ten times the traffic that don't charge a a fifth of what you're asking to list a product.

      Wouldn't it just be better to say that it's about increasing revenue so that you can make the marketplace better? Personally, I have no problem with that.

      However, I think raising the price may be shooting yourself in the foot. Sellers can list their products on networks like JVZoo, Warrior Plus, and others for free or next to nothing upfront and get just as much exposure (If not more).

      I think it might be better if you adopted their business model, which is to take a small percentage of every sale rather than charge an upfront fee to list a single product.

      The truth is that you don't currently have the traffic or marlket infiltration in the WSO section to justify charging $40 to list a single offer. The problem is also compounded by the fact that a true WSO is supposed to be a discounted version of a product available to members of the Warrior Forum. This makes it even less likely that a vendor will pay $40 per listing.

      You're not going to attract a higher quality vendor by doubling the listing price. You're just going to have fewer offers, which translates into less selection, which means even less eyeballs on the offers that are listed.

      My opinion -- Work on building engagement and traffic in the WSO section back to where it was before and then you can justify a price hike.

      Many marketers have stopped listing in that section due to the $20 listing price and moreso because the internal forum traffic just isn't there anymore. Double it and you will only alienate more potential vendors.

      That's just my two cents. Maybe I'm wrong.
      Damn Chris you punk, just when I think I have my mind,beliefs, opinions about this new development solidified and unwavering you have to come along with a Post that totally makes sense. And makes me rethink what I just posted lol

      Gab , Chris is spot on as the traffic is dismal, to say the least. It's really. really bad.

      If it was what it once was say 7 years ago, sure a price increase would be warranted. But it's just NOT really worth it now that I think about it.

      Imo, you should at least keep the Bumps at $20. I think that would be fair. This would keep the ones with solid products (that people are continual hungry for) to stay around and keep promoting their evegreen products in a long term manner with these Bumps.

      In a sense it would work all the way around.You would potentially weed out the 'quick hit' WSO sellers with half- assed products who do not want to pay the $40 but reward the WSO sellers who have quality products and positive reviews on their Thread who do and want to continue promoting long term with the $20 bump
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  • Profile picture of the author superowid
    Looks like fiverr site design!
    The buyer rating system is just perfect there!
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  • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
    Administrator
    I think its fascinating how fast we all react...

    Prices increase? Yes.
    Are we increasing to everyone? No...
    What??? We are going to reward old members, verified sellers and regular WSO sellers. In fact I just ordered to give away 100 free pumps in the next 30 days.

    Are we changing the design?
    Yes.
    Are we going to bring better sellers with a new design? Yes and no
    Yes: Because we believe it will convert better...
    No: if we don't increase traffic.

    Are we increasing traffic? yes
    As fast as we wanted? No. But we will get there....

    So happy to talk about it... to be honest, this process started before I even jump aboard so my only goal is to embrace it and make you part of it.
    Signature

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    Gabriel Machuret
    Head of Warrior Forum

    If you aren't happy with the Warrior Forum PM me. I want to know about it.

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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post

      I think its fascinating how fast we all react...

      Prices increase? Yes.
      Are we increasing to everyone? No...
      What??? We are going to reward old members, verified sellers and regular WSO sellers. In fact I just ordered to give away 100 free pumps in the next 30 days.

      Are we changing the design?
      Yes.
      Are we going to bring better sellers with a new design? Yes and no
      Yes: Because we believe it will convert better...
      No: if we don't increase traffic.

      Are we increasing traffic? yes
      As fast as we wanted? No. But we will get there....

      So happy to talk about it... to be honest, this process started before I even jump aboard so my only goal is to embrace it and make you part of it.
      Hey Gab,
      In all due respect, we "react" so quickly because it is something that is half way important to some of us.

      Hey man, I totally applaud your efforts to take the initiative to make changes to help our Forum.

      Absolutely, I really do.

      But Iam just raising some concerns and questions.

      Whether we "react" 5 minutes right after you post this Thread or 5 days after you do, what's the difference.

      Btw, the other stuff you talk about above sounds really great !!
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      • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
        Administrator
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        Hey Gab,
        In all due respect, we "react" so quickly because it is something that is half way important to some of us.

        Hey man, I totally applaud your efforts to take the initiative to make changes to help our Forum.

        Absolutely, I really do.

        But Iam just raising some concerns and questions.

        Whether we "react" 5 minutes right after you post this Thread or 5 days after you do, what's the difference.
        Fair enough mate.
        I can guarantee no soldier will be left behind and if i believe any seller will leave based on a new design that we believe it will improve their sales.... I'm happy to talk to them 1 on 1 and try to prove our point. (hopefully)

        By the way mate: Thanks for all the value you bring and the patience you have with "us" . Seriously. Great to have you here
        Signature

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        Gabriel Machuret
        Head of Warrior Forum

        If you aren't happy with the Warrior Forum PM me. I want to know about it.

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        • Profile picture of the author Peter Adamson
          Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post

          I can guarantee no soldier will be left behind
          Unfortunately some have already been left behind. A few years back I ran WSOs quite profitably. I would bump every 2 days or so. My product was software as a service and my WSO post linked to my sales page.

          When you have a recurring payment product with PayPal, you must encode certain information in the payment button which PayPal sends back to the IPN URL. It is therefore not possible for me to use Warrior Payments (need my own button), and I therefore cannot create a WSO. Even if it were possible it would require modification and re-certification of my IPN code which is too onerous.

          Curiously, there seem to be WSOs that don't use Warrior Payments so I would love for someone to clear me up on this point.
          Signature
          Could You Be Squeezing More Sales Out Of Your Traffic ?
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
            Originally Posted by Peter Adamson View Post

            Curiously, there seem to be WSOs that don't use Warrior Payments so I would love for someone to clear me up on this point.
            We can use any payment processor we like.

            I use the 'buy button' to link to a checkout page on my site, for customers to complete the transaction there.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marcus W K Wong
    Administrator
    Woah! sorry --- late to the party it seems! It's great to see some feedback and I'll run through some of these.

    Let's think about this logically for a moment on nothing but hypotheticals because the truth that both you and I seek -- remains behind the data of the launch.

    So let's lay this down on a table:

    If it was what it once was say 7 years ago, sure a price increase would be warranted. But it's just NOT really worth it now that I think about it.

    This is not about just "traffic" going to the marketplace. Most of the traffic that would have come through 6-7 years ago would have been affiliated traffic (based on the quantity of WSO's -- more on this in a bit) specific to threads and you'd have some overflow from other sellers who are affiliating and gaining traffic.

    Price wise, we're facilitating two things with the increase -- and the question is simple, what do you think sells more? A forum thread or an conversion optimised sales page that still holds conversational properties?

    We tested it, and by a mile it was the sales page. That's exactly what we're implementing for sellers. We're working with what we've trialled and tested through fire, we're working with what we know here.

    The cost to post a WSO increased, and conditionally -- again we're falling back on what we know: posting a WSO used to cost $40 before 2014 and the price drop definitely accelerated the rate of WSO posting. What do you think that means for you if you've posted a WSO?

    We get it, and we expect that drop in volume of new WSO's. Logically it means that if you've bumped - or newly posted your WSO, it's living on the front page for longer and reduce the "quality by association" of the threads around it.

    Living on the front page for much longer? That much, we can't answer precisely at the moment as we're unaware of what the new marketplace will bring --- all I can say is, it's great to see the marketplace FINALLY evolve out of 2001.

    I completely agree with reducing the size of the above the fold banner. Without letting the cat out the bag too much, I've expressed some interest to make that our new 'sticky' carousel -- but this is all due in time. We're not reducing the quantity of WSO's on the front page as far as I'm aware at this stage.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Marcus W K Wong View Post

      Woah! sorry --- late to the party it seems! It's great to see some feedback and I'll run through some of these.

      Let's think about this logically for a moment on nothing but hypotheticals because the truth that both you and I seek -- remains behind the data of the launch.

      So let's lay this down on a table:

      If it was what it once was say 7 years ago, sure a price increase would be warranted. But it's just NOT really worth it now that I think about it.

      This is not about just "traffic" going to the marketplace. Most of the traffic that would have come through 6-7 years ago would have been affiliated traffic (based on the quantity of WSO's -- more on this in a bit) specific to threads and you'd have some overflow from other sellers who are affiliating and gaining traffic.

      Price wise, we're facilitating two things with the increase -- and the question is simple, what do you think sells more? A forum thread or an conversion optimised sales page that still holds conversational properties?

      We tested it, and by a mile it was the sales page. That's exactly what we're implementing for sellers. We're working with what we've trialled and tested through fire, we're working with what we know here.

      The cost to post a WSO increased, and conditionally -- again we're falling back on what we know: posting a WSO used to cost $40 before 2014 and the price drop definitely accelerated the rate of WSO posting. What do you think that means for you if you've posted a WSO?

      We get it, and we expect that drop in volume of new WSO's. Logically it means that if you've bumped - or newly posted your WSO, it's living on the front page for longer and reduce the "quality by association" of the threads around it.

      Living on the front page for much longer? That much, we can't answer precisely at the moment as we're unaware of what the new marketplace will bring --- all I can say is, it's great to see the marketplace FINALLY evolve out of 2001.

      I completely agree with reducing the size of the above the fold banner. Without letting the cat out the bag too much, I've expressed some interest to make that our new 'sticky' carousel -- but this is all due in time. We're not reducing the quantity of WSO's on the front page as far as I'm aware at this stage.

      thank you so much, Marcus

      Marcus, I hope in this new design people will still be allowed in some form of a thread in the WSO to Post about the Product and giving back unbiased Review from their purchase of the product, ask questions etc... ??

      That is a big deal. And weeds out the bad from good. Having a place where people can voice their concerns about the seller and his product and engaging prospects/customers with questions and answers is an excellent tool to have all the way around, for buyers, for lurkers who are looking, for sellers, for Admin. to check on etc..etc..
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    • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
      Originally Posted by Marcus W K Wong View Post

      Most of the traffic that would have come through 6-7 years ago would have been affiliated traffic (based on the quantity of WSO's -- more on this in a bit) specific to threads and you'd have some overflow from other sellers who are affiliating and gaining traffic.
      I'd have to disagree with that.

      7 years ago you could post a WSO and make 100 sales just from forum traffic.

      Today, if you don't drive outside traffic to your WSO or have affiliates promoting, you'll be lucky to make 10-15 sales.

      That's the reality.

      As for the new design, whatever.

      If it improves traffic, great. My experience tells me that changing a design doesn't really do much of anything. I've seen awesome looking sales pages bomb, and ugly sales pages make thousands of sales.

      As for the price, sure, there will always be people who pay it. The question is how many of them will be willing to bump their listing for $40 if the initial traffic isn't there?

      The whole point of listing your product in the WSO section is to offer it to Warriors (members of the forum). If you have to drive your own traffic to the offer or rely on affiliates to promote it for you, it kind of defeats the purpose of listing it there in the first place. Isn't it just easier to make your own sales page if you have to generate your own traffic?

      I applaud your efforts. I really do. And I'm not trying to be negative, but your only concentration right now should be to grow forum membership and engagement.

      You guys are always talking about the "1.3 million members." Well, where are they all? Maybe you've got that many people registered, but let's face it, I don't even think you've got 1% actively engaging.

      Why not launch an email campaign and try to bring the inactive members into the fold?

      You're focusing on fancy graphics and enhancing your revenue model way before you should be.

      You're trying to fly your airplane without enough fuel. Sure, you'll get off the ground, but how long can you stay airborne?

      My advice - Sink that design money into advertising.

      Hire some mods with it to go through the massive amounts of redundant threads that get started every day.

      You've got some loyal members here who really want to see you succeed (including myself). I think you need to start listening more to the members instead of the execs who are obviously only concerned about turning a profit right now.

      You've got to examine the reasons why so many people left. I know you keep talking about how the past is the past, etc. Sometimes, though, you need to look back before you look ahead, especially if you've wandered off of your path.

      I used to hang out in the forum every day, sometimes for an hour or more at a shot.

      Why? It was exciting. Threads were getting responses in seconds. TONS of high quality info from all the big names in IM.

      Nowadays, I might visit for 15-20 minutes every 2-3 days, most times never even making a post. Why? Something is missing. Even when a thread that I'm interested in gets started, I open it to find the same 4-5 awesome members making decent responses, followed by dozens of one line responses like "This is a very interesting subject," etc.

      Guys, bring back the awesome sauce. There is a core group of about 15-20 people here pulling for you.

      I'll support you no matter what. I'm just telling you how it looks from where I sit.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Marcus W K Wong View Post


      This is not about just "traffic" going to the marketplace.
      Thats the thing - we are marketers . Its ALL about the traffic. Design can and often does improve conversion but seasoned marketers will take 10% on 500 visits all day 7 days a week over 25% On 50 visits.

      The reality is running a WSO is going to tip close to $100 as anyone who has done a WSO knows the bump can end up being better than the initial listing (so you have to commit to 1- 2 bumps even on an offer that doesn't quite take in the end).

      So I have to decide whether the $100 is better spent somewhere I can drive qualified targeted visits from for the same cash (and straight to my site no less with branding and returning traffic benefits). Right now the confidence is not that high on the traffic at WF (that goes for quantity and quality). We all appreciate marketing and it is just good marketing to cite that WF has 1+ million users but as to whether thats active members much less buying members - I don't think I have to get into that as most of the regulars here have their answer already.

      So if this were a rebrand - WF is now going to be about higher quality and we are going to advertise it on that basis. I think everyone would be great with it including the price increase. However without any indication of what marketing will be done and with the full obvious knowledge that a $20 increase is not going to magically cut off the low quality stuff - questions remain

      because - permission to speak freely - if you want to increase quality thats easily and more effectively done though moderating the offers without any price increase (which to be fair I think is near inconsequential ).

      So at the end of the day if you want to attract back old members running WSO and new ones it still comes back to traffic, traffic and traffic (on both quantity and quality).

      Its ALL about traffic over design - which is why craigslist is still humming along.
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      • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Thats the thing - we are marketers . Its ALL about the traffic. Design can and often does improve conversion but seasoned marketers will take 10% on 500 visits all day 7 days a week over 25% On 50 visits.

        The reality is running a WSO is going to tip close to $100 as anyone who has done a WSO knows the bump can end up being better than the initial listing (so you have to commit to 1- 2 bumps even on an offer that doesn't quite take in the end).

        So I have to decide whether the $100 is better spent somewhere I can drive qualified targeted visits from for the same cash (and straight to my site no less with branding and returning traffic benefits). Right now the confidence is not that high on the traffic at WF (that goes for quantity and quality). We all appreciate marketing and it is just good marketing to cite that WF has 1+ million users but as to whether thats active members much less buying members - I don't think I have to get into that as most of the regulars here have their answer already.

        So if this were a rebrand - WF is now going to be about higher quality and we are going to advertise it on that basis. I think everyone would be great with it including the price increase. However without any indication of what marketing will be done and with the full obvious knowledge that a $20 increase is not going to magically cut off the low quality stuff - questions remain

        because - permission to speak freely - if you want to increase quality thats easily and more effectively done though moderating the offers without any price increase (which to be fair I think is near inconsequential ).

        So at the end of the day if you want to attract back old members running WSO and new ones it still comes back to traffic, traffic and traffic (on both quantity and quality).

        Its ALL about traffic over design - which is why craigslist is still humming along.
        Mike, you hit the nail on the head.

        You said exactly what I was thinking.

        All of this said, though, I want to make it known that I am here to support the WF.

        I would like nothing better to see these guys hit it out of the park.

        We have yet to see any of the changes, or what effect they will have.

        I'm willing to sit tight and hope for the best. I definitely hope it works and i do have to applaud both Gabriel and Marcus for taking action.

        I guess we will have to wait and see what happens.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
          I could be wrong however I think the true strength of WF is with the People that (many times selflessly) contribute to the discussions.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
      Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post

      What you said around 2:40 in about the first experience of a WSO buyer tarring their perception of the entire forum for life because of the purchase of a lousy $2 product...passionately expressed and totally explained where you're coming from. Appreciated.
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      • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
        Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

        What you said around 2:40 in about the first experience of a WSO buyer tarring their perception of the entire forum for life because of the purchase of a lousy $2 product...passionately expressed and totally explained where you're coming from. Appreciated.
        Just because a seller is only asking $2 for a product doesn't make it "lousy."

        On the contrary, I've gotten some amazing products for less than $5.

        And I also think it's wrong to assume that a simple looking sales page equals a bad product.

        Wrong, wrong, wrong.

        In fact, I know a very successful marketer who uses basic, simple sales pages and sells over 1000 copies every time he launches. The reason - EVERY product he puts out ROCKS. I'm not going to mention his name, but his initials are SM.

        I suggest that the people who will be reviewing WSOs for approval actually take the time to go through the product before passing judgement on it's quality based on "design" or the fact that it might have a misspelling or two.

        Why would a vendor only ask a few bucks for an incredible product? Simple. They would rather build a buyer's list with sales of the product than make large profits on it.

        That's just IM 101 and to anyone that doesn't get that -- this may not be for you.
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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Originally Posted by nicheblogger75 View Post

          Just because a seller is only asking $2 for a product doesn't make it "lousy."

          On the contrary, I've gotten some amazing products for less than $5.

          And I also think it's wrong to assume that a simple looking sales page equals a bad product.

          Wrong, wrong, wrong.

          In fact, I know a very successful marketer who uses basic, simple sales pages and sells over 1000 copies every time he launches. The reason - EVERY product he puts out ROCKS. I'm not going to mention his name, but his initials are SM.

          I suggest that the people who will be reviewing WSOs for approval actually take the time to go through the product before passing judgement on it's quality based on "design" or the fact that it might have a misspelling or two.

          Why would a vendor only ask a few bucks for an incredible product? Simple. They would rather build a buyer's list with sales of the product than make large profits on it.

          That's just IM 101 and to anyone that doesn't get that -- this may not be for you.
          Yeah I think there is some truth to that. But Chris honestly I have seen a few of them lately and the Salespage was so bad and the benefits listed were juuenile and silly it wasn't even funny.

          I agree with you, it's important to build a Buyers List. That's pretty much the main reason I keep Bumping but Iam also proud of my Products and I do enjoy putting it in peoples' hands to benefit them.

          But the Admin. has to have a different angle to approach it and they have to consider the big picture i.e. helping buyers and sellers at the same time. And keeping the integrity of the Warrior forum in tact
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          • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
            I understand your point. I'm just saying they can't discount the quality of the product based on the price and how the sales page looks.

            Maybe the person put out fantastic info but they aren't a native English speaker.

            One of the main principles of the Warrior Forum is to help newbies to achieve online success.

            If a newbie takes the time to learn something new, perfect it, and achieve success, that still doesn't mean they have hundreds of dollars to shell out on sales page design, or English lessons, for that matter.

            Does that mean that the bar should be raised so high that this individual cannot get a WSO listed because of the way it looks?

            The mods can see the bigger picture by reviewing the product and only allowing approvals for products that are top quality.

            A pretty sales page and a $37 price tag does not make a good product.

            If the mods want to truly raise the bar, they can review the entire product and make sure it's good. If it gets listed and people buy it, they will be satisfied.

            The more people buy WSOs and are continually satisfied, the more credibility the marketplace will have. This is not something that's going to happen overnight or that any design or policy change will achieve. It's going to take time. It's going to take hundreds, maybe thousands of people purchasing products from the marketplace that they receive value from. Depriving your members of that value based on the look or price of a product is foolhardy.

            Placing all of this emphasis on design on price is scary IMO. I don't care how nice and modern something looks. If it's quality, it's quality. If it's shit, it's shit.

            As far as the $40 price tag I think that's fine. Will it help weed out lower quality products and sellers? No way. The only thing that can do that is human review. I do agree with Gabriel's point, though, that if you aren't willing to invest another $20 in your business, you probably aren't ready to launch a WSO.

            As for the rest of it, I'll refer back to the old saying: Never judge a book by it's cover.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
          Originally Posted by nicheblogger75 View Post

          Just because a seller is only asking $2 for a product doesn't make it "lousy."

          On the contrary, I've gotten some amazing products for less than $5.

          And I also think it's wrong to assume that a simple looking sales page equals a bad product.

          Wrong, wrong, wrong.

          In fact, I know a very successful marketer who uses basic, simple sales pages and sells over 1000 copies every time he launches. The reason - EVERY product he puts out ROCKS. I'm not going to mention his name, but his initials are SM.

          I suggest that the people who will be reviewing WSOs for approval actually take the time to go through the product before passing judgement on it's quality based on "design" or the fact that it might have a misspelling or two.

          Why would a vendor only ask a few bucks for an incredible product? Simple. They would rather build a buyer's list with sales of the product than make large profits on it.

          That's just IM 101 and to anyone that doesn't get that -- this may not be for you.
          I agreed with what you had to say above as well ;-)

          I did not say "All $2 products are crap." Faulty syllogism.

          My sales pages are simple sales letters and they converted just fine. I think I did one or two with "fancier" graphic design and it didn't make a difference.

          There is a lot of crap and many people do believe that ALL the products in the WSO section are crap. I was once told, "Well if you were a *real* consultant you wouldn't be on the Warrior Forum." Oh. I guess that person isn't a *real* chiropractor since they were on the forum as well. I am applauding Gabe's emotional involvement here in wanting to fix that perception.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
    I'm really excited about the new design. It looks awesome.

    See that top row of WSOs?

    That's gonna be mega-important for sellers - more time above the fold (maybe?). Good stuff.

    The price increase might put off shady sellers, I don't know. Fingers crossed that it does. But I know limiting what TYPE OF WSOs are allowed, would prevent a lot of a sludge.

    Anyway, you're prepared to take risks with the WF and try new things, that's the kind of spirit it needs.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Years ago the number of WSO's on one page was increased only because there was so much traffic in that section the 'new bumps' were rolling off the first page in less than a day...sometimes in hours.

    That's due to dozens of new WSO's daily - heavy traffic in that section.

    TIGHT enforcement of clearly written WSO rules at the time helped quality sellers....not to mention the demographic of the WF was quite different than it is today. The rules need to be updated and two sets of rules combined - and I'm assuming that is part of the 'new changes' as I know we've discussed it.

    I think it's a great idea - and probably will take a few tweaks to make everything sync properly. The vetting of sellers - another new tweak that's been added - and updating the section....will be an exciting change.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zoe_21
    Originally Posted by Gabriel

    [...] Pricing will not apply to everyone. It will be mainly for new sellers. We will reward old members and regular WSO members [...]

    Err?

    Did I miss the how in the YT vid or in your replies Gabriel?

    What is an "old member" and "regular WSO members" criteria?

    What's their prices?
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    • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
      Administrator
      Originally Posted by Zoe_21 View Post

      Err?

      Did I miss the how in the YT vid or in your replies Gabriel?

      What is an "old member" and "regular WSO members" criteria?

      What's their prices?
      We are still figuring it out. No new marketplace has been launched just yet. We are just designing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve B
    Sometimes it's easy to forget that the Warrior Forum is a "for profit" enterprise where management calls the shots and takes all the risks as it makes the changes it feels necessary to keep up with changing times and dynamic online marketplaces.

    Sure, the membership is a critical component to the success of the WF . . . management understands that . . . and I personally believe they are doing their best to seek input, advice, and member preferences wherever they can. But as in every business, the buck stops at the top and difficult decisions are made based on the business goals, budget and manpower limitations, and educated management judgements about the best directions for the future of the business.

    I think it's premature to be too critical as the changes and their effects are just beginning and it's going to take some time. This is a big ship and it will take some months to adjust the rudder and maneuver it into a new direction. That's what the membership has been calling for, isn't it? I'm going to give it a chance!

    I remember Bobby Kennedy (yes, I'm that old), just before he was gunned down, saying something like: Unless we move with change we will certainly become its victims. Maybe that's what was happening with the old WF - not changing enough with the times - stagnating and headed in the wrong direction.

    The new WF leadership is positioning this place for both present and future success. If certain decisions prove to be unworkable, I'm sure they will try something else until they get it right.

    I'm not speaking for anyone but myself here. I think Gabe and company need my patience, support, and continued involvement. I'm going to do what I've been doing here since I joined - trying to give my best and help wherever I can.

    The very best to all of you,

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
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      Thanks mate
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  • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
    Administrator
    Nobody is saying that we are putting design over traffic.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
    You're right, this isn't 2010 anymore, times have changed and we need to move on.

    And you're also right that the way we sell WSOs needs to change too.

    But I think you've missed an opportunity because the way people buy products has changed, too.

    Running a WSO is effectively pitching to cold traffic.

    If you ran an advert on FB to a sales page, and put it in front of internet marketers, it would still bomb.

    Maybe the price isn't a factor in people's decision to run a WSO - it's all about the ROI.

    Most of us advertise on multiple platforms, and invest the most on the ones that yield the highest returns.

    On FB and other platforms, if we throw $20, $100, $200 at advertising it's ONLY to capture leads.

    Obviously we warm them up before pitching.

    Here, we can't do that unless we venture into the depths of the classifieds... which is like fishing in an empty lake.

    Maybe the WF needs to start letting us send leads into our funnels.

    Allen stopped that practice because every WSO became a "free WSO", but personally I never saw any problem with delivering more value to people before asking them to trust me enough to buy from me.

    The WF has taken many dramatic leaps forward in the last couple of months, and has already been improved to the extent that my cynicism is being replaced with optimism.

    Keep doing what you're doing and thanks for taking our ideas on board.
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  • Profile picture of the author hoangcf
    oh, video interesting. I think raising the Rates will be good
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  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    My advice - Sink that design money into advertising.
    Without traffic, it doesn't matter what your site looks like. This forum needs new blood and lots of it. People with money and ambition. Without it, you are simply spinning your wheels IMO. If I were at the com that would be priority one and only until enough traffic made other changes necessary.

    I used to hang out in the forum every day, sometimes for an hour or more at a shot.

    Why? It was exciting. Threads were getting responses in seconds. TONS of high quality info from all the big names in IM.
    Yep!

    Though it will never be that again, driving quality traffic to the marketplace would increase the quality of the other forums as well.

    This forum could come back to life but it needs a transfusion...stat!

    Brent
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  • Profile picture of the author lingster
    Seems like a good idea doing this Time will tell but so far you guys have done a great job.
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    Basic design principles dictates that FORM follow FUNCTION. I believe the missed point in the information given in the video by Gabe... Is that they NEED to introduce FUNCTION. They need to modify the code of the forum and the marketplace, to introduce greater function and control.. not only for today but then having the ability to adapt in the future. The code is dated and has it limitations that I have read Gabe and Marcus speak of time and again.

    They ARE going to make changes... in order to get from where they are today, to start a path of growth tomorrow, the change is needed.

    The down side here.. with coding changes will more than likely decrease traffic. With the initial switch over ( buy out ) we saw this. With the new changes, we will see it again. This is a part of doing business and its a risk, and as Gabe has stated a risk that he is willing to take.

    In the long run however, based on knowing absolutely nothing about what they are changing adding etc.. it will without question be no worse than it is now.. and for the love of pete I would hope that it could only be better.

    Keep in mind here... there is far more at stake here than how well your WSO's are dong now vs when the change occurs... Its Gabes JOB to increase profits IE conversions IE cash flow or they will flat out fire him.. He cant go back to his bosses and say " oh .01% of the membership that has invested interest stated ( selling WSO's currently ) they wanted to leave it the same so we chose to do nothing...

    They HAVE to change the code... in turn they will change the layout ( FORM follows FUNCTION ) and by the grace of God Gabe increase traffic and turns a profit if not increasing profit and keeps his job.

    So lets stop being so self centered.. look at the BIG PICTURE before us and support Gabe and his endeavours to increase the community as well as the profits of those that use the marketplace. Seriously.. its his JOB to ensure those that sell WSO's make more money, stop whinning and nitpicking over some example of what it may look like and let the guy do his job!
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    • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
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      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      Basic design principles dictates that FORM follow FUNCTION. I believe the missed point in the information given in the video by Gabe... Is that they NEED to introduce FUNCTION. They need to modify the code of the forum and the marketplace, to introduce greater function and control.. not only for today but then having the ability to adapt in the future. The code is dated and has it limitations that I have read Gabe and Marcus speak of time and again.

      They ARE going to make changes... in order to get from where they are today, to start a path of growth tomorrow, the change is needed.

      The down side here.. with coding changes will more than likely decrease traffic. With the initial switch over ( buy out ) we saw this. With the new changes, we will see it again. This is a part of doing business and its a risk, and as Gabe has stated a risk that he is willing to take.

      In the long run however, based on knowing absolutely nothing about what they are changing adding etc.. it will without question be no worse than it is now.. and for the love of pete I would hope that it could only be better.

      Keep in mind here... there is far more at stake here than how well your WSO's are dong now vs when the change occurs... Its Gabes JOB to increase profits IE conversions IE cash flow or they will flat out fire him.. He cant go back to his bosses and say " oh .01% of the membership that has invested interest stated ( selling WSO's currently ) they wanted to leave it the same so we chose to do nothing...

      They HAVE to change the code... in turn they will change the layout ( FORM follows FUNCTION ) and by the grace of God Gabe increase traffic and turns a profit if not increasing profit and keeps his job.

      So lets stop being so self centered.. look at the BIG PICTURE before us and support Gabe and his endeavours to increase the community as well as the profits of those that use the marketplace. Seriously.. its his JOB to ensure those that sell WSO's make more money, stop whinning and nitpicking over some example of what it may look like and let the guy do his job!
      This made my day

      Thx man
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  • Although I am in a process of creating my first ever WSO, I appreciate the changes you are planning, especially the reasons behind it!
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  • Profile picture of the author discrat
    Hey Gab,
    I was looking to bump a post in " Wanted - Members Looking To Hire You". It's always been $5 which is reasonable when you are jusy looking for things like 'Reviewers of your Product 'etc..etc..

    I was shocked to see where it is now $19.95.

    Is this an error or mistake or did you raise the Price on this ??
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    • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
      Administrator
      Originally Posted by discrat View Post

      Hey Gab,
      I was looking to bump a post in " Wanted - Members Looking To Hire You". It's always been $5 which is reasonable when you are jusy looking for things like 'Reviewers of your Product 'etc..etc..

      I was shocked to see where it is now $19.95.

      Is this an error or mistake or did you raise the Price on this ??
      To be honest, no idea. I wasn't aware it was $5 ... I need to check and get back to you guys
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  • Profile picture of the author RedHat39
    The previous owners of the forum raised the WSO posting price to $40 thinking it would weed out the bad or scammy WSOs...it didn't help. So if that is you're thinking you are in for a reality check soon.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Langidis
    I agree that design looks good, however I don't believe that increasing price will help to stop bad or scammy WSOs.

    Here’s my point of view as a seller & marketer:

    As a seller & marketer I disagree with the price increase to $40 & I strongly disagree with BUMP price increase!

    1) Indeed in the past product listing was $40 but also in the past marketplace was giving you the option to drive traffic to FREE WSOs in order to capture leads and warm traffic (Marketplace has more targeted traffic than free traffic sources but still is a cold traffic, don't forget this...)

    2) The amount of traffic WF Marketplace had those days was like x5-x10 more than it has now, so it was easier to make investment back + some profit!

    Now if product listing goes from $20 to $40 someone who sells a good product for $7-9.95 needs to make at least 4-6 sales in order to make investment back!

    From my experience and with the current traffic WF marketplace has, an average seller will not make profit with the new increased price...

    So if someone can't make a profit what's the point of bumping his WSOs for another $40?

    Seller and marketers can easily take their $40 and invest them on other traffic sources which give them more options like retargeting, capture emails, turn cold traffic to hot traffic, branding etc... and at the end of the day they can get more traffic, more leads & sales!

    Current price point of $20 for product listing & $20 for bumping I believe is the perfect balance along with the amount of traffic WF marketplace currently can deliver.

    In order to increase WF marketplace traffic I believe that you need to change WF navigation and make it more user/visitor friendly.
    ( BTW am I the only one who still believes that front page of WF must be the: https://www.warriorforum.com/forums/ instead of the feeds? )

    In my opinion in order to stop scammers and bad products, you can keep working on measures and things like: verify accounts/sellers, ask for real name and profile picture, ask customers to leave rating on products & rate vendors etc…
    Increasing price will not stop scammers but probably will make ethical marketers who know their stuff turn around on other traffic sources & marketplaces!

    Thumbs Up for new design!

    With that been said is there any scheduled day for when these updates will take affect?

    Best Regards,
    Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
    Administrator
    increasing price will not stop scammy WSO....
    But our strategy yes

    "RedHat39" the reality check.... is actually my reality. So this has been analyzed and planned how we will stop scammy WSO.

    But once again, thx for the feedback.
    If we fail.... you all get a free Beer in my name...

    If we don't fail... do we get a beer from you guys?
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post

      If we fail.... you all get a free Beer in my name...

      Where is the signup form for you to get our delivery address? Will this be a premium beer or some down under swag?

      If we don't fail... do we get a beer from you guys?
      you would have already gotten beer money unless a beer cost more than the $20 difference on listing and bump fees. How much is enough? We would have done our part

      Don't drink and moderate.
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      • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
        Administrator
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Where is the signup form for you to get our delivery address? Will this be a premium beer or some down under swag?



        you would have already gotten beer money unless a beer cost more than the $20 difference on listing and bump fees. How much is enough? We would have done our part

        Don't drink and moderate.
        It amazes you found out our evil master plan so early ....

        The plan was to sink the Warrior Forum, steal all the money from WSO and move to Monaco ....
        Marcus was going to become my personal chef... and I will slowly build a Church called the Golden Warrior Forum Years....



        Mmm I guess no plan for beers then.

        Well played Sir well played
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        Gabriel Machuret
        Head of Warrior Forum

        If you aren't happy with the Warrior Forum PM me. I want to know about it.

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        • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
          Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post

          and I will slowly build a Church called the Golden Warrior Forum Years....
          You're about 6-7 years too late to do that...
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          • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
            Administrator
            Originally Posted by nicheblogger75 View Post

            You're about 6-7 years too late to do that...
            Thanks Yoda
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            Gabriel Machuret
            Head of Warrior Forum

            If you aren't happy with the Warrior Forum PM me. I want to know about it.

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            • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
              Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post

              Thanks Yoda
              I was only teasing you

              I know I can be hard on you sometimes, but I think you are doing a great job.

              I know your job isn't easy, and I can't even imagine some of the trials you are having to deal with.

              It can't be easy trying to keep so many different types of people and personalities happy.

              I appreciate that you are working hard.

              And if I come across as harsh sometimes, it's only because I care about the forum and really want to see it (and you and Marcus also) succeed.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
    Administrator
    Cheers mate. I know I was just trolling you back ... a bit
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    Gabriel Machuret
    Head of Warrior Forum

    If you aren't happy with the Warrior Forum PM me. I want to know about it.

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