Classified Ads : Bye Bye Hello underground

by Gabriel Administrator
77 replies
hey all,
the warrior forum has been doing a lot of changes to improve the marketplace.

Our goal is to make a marketplace more transparent and with a better regulation and understanding of the rules.

This is a challenging process.
Past Heads of Warrior Forum had failed mainly for 2 reasons:

the huge amount of users that want the Warrior Forum marketplace to be "the wild wild west"

and the huge amount of users that want regulations


Regulations are challenging:

When you come to the Warrior Forum and you post that you are making $2000 per day with 7 minutes of work weekly and you sell the WSO for $7 with a brand new account... mmmm it's difficult to really trust the quality of the WSO.

So what is the solution?

Do we remove WSO that offer income promises.... do we shut down any WSO that makes money online.... do we shut down anything we can't guarantee?

This is challenging... and if you are "the admin" of this Forum it's not an easy task.

Users are passionate and we all want the best experience and in many cases, we fail to make 100% happy....

so we have decided to split the marketplace into 2 areas


The official marketplace

and the Underground.

The underground is "the old wild west of WSO" or a marketplace where we believe the offers promoted or listen don't fit our quality standards and we are not 100% sure of the authenticity of the offers.

Example:

Brand new users
Insane claims of success
Poor spelling
Low quality in the copy
income claims
etc

Some of you have requested 100% freedom to sell and promote and to let you chose what you want to buy. -- in other words: leave us alone to chose what to buy or not ---0

On the other hand....

We also want to protect our users in a marketplace that is regulated..... but at the same time, we understand that some users may want to have the option to have access to a marketplace that is not moderated by us.

"How I made 1 billion dollars while watching Games of Thrones and how you can make the same amount in 17 seconds or less"

Well if you are looking for that type of deal... the underground is for you

Important to understand:

The underground doesn't accept any illegal, warez, or product that doesn't fit our standard term and conditions..... but it gives you the option to post items we will not allow based on our suspicious of authenticity in the main marketplace.
Mainly is the Wild Wild west and it will receive less attention, love and traffic than the market place for obvious reasons.

Also, the Warrior Forum WILL NOT promote the Underground at any stage and the priority of approval and support for the Underground members will be less that the marketplace.

Overall this is not an easy decision.
Shutting down classified ads to setup as the Underground comes from our need to streamline our processes. In many cases for "the user" ... running the Warrior Forum it's easy... but in reality is not and we believe in this way we are empowering the users to make their own decision.

I will be expanding on this topic later on to clarify doubts that you may have in the next days or so.... and although this will not happen in 2017, it will be something that will take effect in January 2018.

I'm well aware that this will not be ideal for everyone, but I think is a good compromise for our team and some of the core members.
#ads #bye #classified #underground
  • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
    Something is better than nothing... for people on both sides of the debate, right?

    Like you say, it's a compromise. Everybody gets some of what they want. Fair enough.

    Maybe the underground market won't be as profitable, and will eventually fade into obscurity. Or it'll seem more dangerous and attractive to buyers, and skyrocket.

    Either way, the market itself will decide which one it prefers... it's kinda like a split test.

    And I think you've found a pretty good solution.
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    • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
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      Originally Posted by Michael Meaney View Post

      Something is better than nothing... for people on both sides of the debate, right?

      Like you say, it's a compromise. Everybody gets some of what they want. Fair enough.
      My goal was.... in dreamland for us to verify each WSO so any buyer feels that anything they buy at the Warrior Forum is scam free.

      I don't have the team the manpower to do it...

      this seems a good compromise.

      You want to play with fire: Underground.

      You want stuff we can tell you, you can trust.... Marketplace.

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  • Hello Gabriel,

    I like it, people need to know the truth, and like I always say to people that want real answers, this is not easy, you must learn and master this, but most people do what they want. Anyhow good job.
    Look forward to new changes and more to come, lets make this form the best place to be,
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    • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
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      Originally Posted by smartprofitmoney View Post

      Hello Gabriel,

      I like it, people need to know the truth, and like I always say to people that want real answers, this is not easy, you must learn and master this, but most people do what they want. Anyhow good job.
      Look forward to new changes and more to come, lets make this form the best place to be,
      Thanks mate
      it's good to have some support.
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  • Interesting compromise but at least it's something concrete. Looking forward to the changes.

    Just be aware and transparent about the fact that you have some verified sellers promising things like $936,000 a year right this instant. Are you going to move them to the underground or is it okay to make wild claims and promises if they went through the verification process?

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
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      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Interesting compromise but at least it's something concrete. Looking forward to the changes.

      Just be aware and transparent about the fact that you have some verified sellers promising things like $936,000 a year right this instant. Are you going to move them to the underground or is it okay to make wild claims and promises if they went through the verification process?

      Mark
      Anyone in the underground can promise anything.
      The only thing I will pull out is if I see copyright issues, illegal stuff or clear Warez stuff.

      But if you want to convince me that you made 2 million this year after investing only $15 .... and you sell me the secret for $7.... go for it.... but only in the underground and don't expect A LOT support from us.
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      • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
        Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post

        Anyone in the underground can promise anything.
        The only thing I will pull out is if I see copyright issues, illegal stuff or clear Warez stuff.

        But if you want to convince me that you made 2 million this year after investing only $15 .... and you sell me the secret for $7.... go for it.... but only in the underground and don't expect A LOT support from us.
        I think that pretty much says it all right there.

        Who in their right mind would even set foot in such a marketplace, let alone purchase anything in there?

        As far as "anyone can promise anything they want," therein lies a HUGE problem.
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        • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
          Administrator
          Originally Posted by nicheblogger75 View Post

          I think that pretty much says it all right there.

          Who in their right mind would even set foot in such a marketplace, let alone purchase anything in there?

          As far as "anyone can promise anything they want," therein lies a HUGE problem.
          That's why we want to promote the WSO that fit our quality guidelines and the other ones can go to a different place where we can't verify those claims.
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  • Profile picture of the author cashmonk
    Your Underground...IS BRILLIANT! Are there scams? Sure and there always will be. Is that good? Absolutely not...I am scammed at the bank...the grocery store...online...offline...scammed where I work...scammed by cable...take your pick. BUT...we are starting to vote with our money now...not just fall for the scam. However, there are some sleeper offers, deals, tactics and strategies we would never get to wrap our mind around had someone not bought it out into the open. Where they going to start?
    Underground=Brilliant
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Are you going to warn potential buyers in "the underground" that if they get hoodwinked it's tough luck, their loss? Or will you still try to arbitrate disputes?
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    • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
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      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      Are you going to warn potential buyers in "the underground" that if they get hoodwinked it's tough luck, their loss? Or will you still try to arbitrate disputes?

      100%, in fact, each Ad, has a disclaimer that we manually ad.

      So if you buy and you are not happy... we told you so....
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    It's good to have a "balance" of what you want to do with The Forum ... While respecting the Community and keeping them in mind.

    If you do what's best for Warrior People ... You will do well. If you're just in it to run a "Business" (per se) then it wouldn't be as successful.

    2C
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    • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
      Administrator
      Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

      It's good to have a "balance" of what you want to do with The Forum ... While respecting the Community and keeping them in mind.

      If you do what's best for Warrior People ... You will do well. If you're just in it to run a "Business" (per se) then it wouldn't be as successful.

      2C
      mainly for sanity .... to be 100% honest.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post

        mainly for sanity .... to be 100% honest.
        Lol. Fair enough.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    Banned
    So what happens to existing classifieds, (many of which are completely legit) do they just get tossed into the "underground" wholesale?

    Brent
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    • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
      Administrator
      Originally Posted by Brent Stangel View Post

      So what happens to existing classifieds, (many of which are completely legit) do they just get tossed into the "underground" wholesale?

      Brent
      It will still exist for a few months but it will be closed for new posting
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  • There is currently (even though it isn't enforced) supposed to be a division between classified ads and the WSO forum.

    For example, done for you services should go in Warriors for Hire according to the rules. Now some have been let into the WSO section. What happens to them after the change?

    What about legit products that are based on PLR or otherwise non-exclusive? Currently, they should go in the classifieds section. Just because something is non-exclusive shouldn't taint it with the underground brush after the change, right?

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
      Administrator
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      There is currently (even though it isn't enforced) supposed to be a division between classified ads and the WSO forum.

      For example, done for you services should go in Warriors for Hire according to the rules. Now some have been let into the WSO section. What happens to them after the change?

      What about legit products that are based on PLR or otherwise non-exclusive? Currently, they should go in the classifieds section. Just because something is non-exclusive shouldn't taint it with the underground brush after the change, right?

      Mark
      PLR is a difficult area.

      nobody can really verify that you "own rights" .... so that is a tricky one. I think PLR goes into the underground... we need to investigate that one but I know the Gods Above my position don't love the idea of PLR....

      and to be honest, everytime I see PLR as AMAZING BONUS OF THIS WSO... I feel like puking..... many PLR are from 2009....
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
    The problem with letting the market decide, is that you abdicate control of the forum's reputation.

    If the underground section becomes popular, it will define the WF - and have an adverse effect on all other areas of the forum, including the legitimate sections. Ask yourself what effect a similar initiative would have on the reputation of freelancer.com, for example.

    I understand the desire to compromise, but internet marketing should have moved on from the wild west a long time ago.
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    • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
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      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

      The problem with letting the market decide, is that you abdicate control of the forum's reputation.

      If the underground section becomes popular, it will define the WF - and have an adverse effect on all other areas of the forum, including the legitimate sections. Ask yourself what effect a similar initiative would have on the reputation of freelancer.com, for example.

      I understand the desire to compromise, but internet marketing should have moved on from the wild west a long time ago.
      I didn't let the market decide. I took the decision with my team...
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post

        I didn't let the market decide. I took the decision with my team...
        I understand that, and I know you're doing what you believe is best for the forum. My opinion is that the management (and owners) need to decide what type of forum or platform they want. Trying to satisfy two such disparate camps is going to be a difficult exercise.

        EDIT:
        The definition of the wild wild west depends how Far away east you are located
        I was just using your term.
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        • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
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          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

          I understand that, and I know you're doing what you believe is best for the forum. My opinion is that the management (and owners) need to decide what type of forum or platform they want. Trying to satisfy two such disparate camps is going to be a difficult exercise.
          Yes I agree.
          but don't forget the diet of the Warrior Forum has been since 2001

          Difficult Stuff for breakfast
          Hard shit for Lunch (can I say shit in this forum? )
          Drama for Dinner
          and a bit more drama before going to bed.

          So we are pretty much used to it

          Thanks mate
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    • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
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      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post


      but internet marketing should have moved on from the wild west a long time ago.

      The definition of the wild wild west depends how Far away east you are located
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  • Profile picture of the author m zeedi
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    • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
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      Originally Posted by m zeedi View Post

      This is really debatable for both aspects, Every one wants to get something but it is dangerous for buyers.
      In fact is not dangerous for the buyer. by doing this we increase the trust in the market place....
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I like it. It makes sense in many ways for both buyers and for sellers....and protects the WF at the same time.

    We can say 'no income claims' but in reality it's impossible to oversee every ad posted here. That's no secret to anyone - or shouldn't be. That 'rule' has resulted in sellers complaining about other sellers and in members believing their purchases are 'guaranteed' by the WF. Not good.

    One big problem is that ads can be bumped for years and it adds to the confusion for members. At the least, the classified ad section should be limited length of time for ads (or limited number of 'bumps') and sellers would then resubmit the ad. Currently new sellers have to compete with members whose ads have been running for years - have pages of comments - and appear to have more 'weight' for that reason. It is not a level playing field for new sellers.

    We have 20+ pg ads selling 10 pg products....that's nuts. Where else can you pay so little for an ad and use as much space as you please??? Where else can you place an ad and have it run forever??? Why should we allow unlimited time and space on the WF??? Where else can you pay $20 and have your ad from 2 years ago back on top of the ad section???

    I like the idea of clearly stating "buy at your own risk" - with no arbitration, no WF guarantees, etc. It's an honest approach to me and 'ironing out' the details shouldn't be that hard. It is a 'real life' approach to selling products.

    Meeting the standards set for 'trusted seller' should be a requirement for running a WSO here. To me, that should be part of the new process for an ad section that will be regulated.

    Gabriel - this could work well but only if the details are taken care of. Make the disclaimers simple and easy to understand. Follow through with what you say - if the rules are 'buy at your own risk' - don't try to arbitrate complaints.

    UPDATE THE RULES IN ALL AD SECTIONS. Make them clear and easy to understand - eliminate any unnecessary verbiage or details - and enforce those rules consistently.

    Ok - I'm done - for now....

    kay

    edit: ok - one more thing...

    It doesn't have to be difficult. No reason not to have

    Warrior SPECIAL Offers (vetted sellers, guarantees enforced, etc)
    Warrior Underground (buy at your own risk)

    My guess is within a few months everyone will assume it's 'always been that way'...
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post



      One big problem is that ads can be bumped for years and it adds to the confusion for members. At the least, the classified ad section should be limited length of time for ads (or limited number of 'bumps') and sellers would then resubmit the ad. Currently new sellers have to compete with members whose ads have been running for years - have pages of comments - and appear to have more 'weight' for that reason. It is not a level playing field for new sellers.

      A big problem ?? Actually it's a positive highlight that encourages Marketers e to produce high quality products that Consumers keep coming back for more and more, Thus Bumping is almost a requirement to satisfy demand .

      And shouldn't they have more 'weight' ?? This Feature is Unique and Beneficial for that reason.

      It seperates the Treasure from the Trash.

      It's about serving the Marketplace and the Buyers. Not the other way around.
      If your product is worthy and serves a great need and of high quality sooner or later it will "join" those long term WSOs that have been "running forever."

      There is a reason why those WSOs are running that long.Can you guess?? Not hard
      Like I said let the Marketplace determines that and the Marketplace will determine what needs to go and what should stay and sometimes that can be for years


      Where else can you place an ad and have it run forever??? Why should we allow unlimited time and space on the WF??? Where else can you pay $20 and have your ad from 2 years ago back on top of the ad section???

      Refer to above. Crappy WSOs won't run forever. Only the ones that satisfy the Market. And that's what it is all about. And that is EXACTLY how Allen Says intended it to be from the beginning
      Mine in BOLD
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post

        and to be honest, everytime I see PLR as AMAZING BONUS OF THIS WSO... I feel like puking..... many PLR are from 2009....
        There is some really high quality PLR out there. It's fresh, too...and...expensive. But yeah, a lot of "bonus" PLR is old and mostly useless.

        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

        If the underground section becomes popular, it will define the WF - and have an adverse effect on all other areas of the forum, including the legitimate sections.
        That's a fair point. On the other hand, that section could die a slow death and the WF will be redefined by an overall higher grade of products and more reputable sellers. I could see it swinging in either direction, or with both sections being popular for what they are. Hard to predict.

        I kind of like the idea of separating better products and reputable sellers from unverified products and sketchy sellers, though.
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    I really like the idea.

    Even in the real world, if you choose to stroll through sketchy neighborhoods late at night, the risk of mugging is on you. If you hook up with a sketchy someone and wake up with a headache and missing wallet, it's on you. Enter the Underground with your credit card in hand, and it's on you.

    There's a flip side to this no one has mentioned. In the olden days of the wild , wild west, it was common to shoot back when you are wronged. If it's an open field for the scammers, will it be the same open field for the scammed? Suspension of the old Rule 1?
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  • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
    I like it so much maybe I'll come out of semi-retirement and promote something in the "Above Ground".

    My only concern and maybe I am just confused...

    In the classified and for hire sub-forums there have been some great freelancers over the years. Legit, high quality products and services. Some incredible content writers, copywriters, video makers, graphics, web development, training and such. It takes some work and testing to find these individuals but it is worth it. I fear that if they are put in "The Underground" it will automatically cast shadow on their honesty, skills and experience. If that happens, at some point down the road there may not be anybody with talent that wants to advertise there.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I think the WF is currently being defined by some of the less-than-stellar 'offerings' that have proliferated in the past 2-3 years.

    As far as 'services' go - maybe there should be a section for 'verified' providers there, too.

    A clearly defined 'line' between 'vetted seller" and "at your own risk" might be all that's needed.

    I mentioned the 'long running WSO's' as so many of those from years past have been bumped complete with income claims, etc. Maybe it's time for a clean slate, clear rules, fresh offers. Not an argument - just a suggestion. Allen exited years ago - definitions change.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I mentioned the 'long running WSO's' as so many of those from years past have been bumped complete with income claims, etc. Maybe it's time for a clean slate, clear rules, fresh offers. Not an argument - just a suggestion. Allen exited years ago - definitions change.
      Not sure how to say all this without you thinking Iam being rude or whatever. So please do not take it personally because (maybe I'm wrong in reading this) it seems you must have.

      And not really sure how to say this wthoutt being a little frank but maybe you have NOT run a WSO in awhile ??
      Just curious when that was ??

      Because if you had in the last 6-8 months or so you would realize the Income Claims have cut down almost completely.

      They are very strict about this.

      The reason why you may see those Income Claims with long running WSOs ( and even new ones as well) is because they can be actually verified by Warrior Forum. They are Claims that actually can be proven by the WSO seller as true.

      You are misreading what the Rules are saying.. You can have Income Claims but they have to be verified via Warrior Payments.

      And you cannot Bump and then all of the sudden put a Income Claim in or go back and try to add or 'sneak' an Income Claim like some did before. They are checking EVERYONE to comply with this. Just ask Michael Meaney and others who have long running WSOs

      To Edit your WSO they are over the top strict in that they put it in que until they re- approve it. Even if you want to change just ONE word they do this. And you get taken off the WSO page until this re approval. Trust me as a active WSO user it's a bitch but it does cut down on the shenanigans

      Iam truly not trying to offend you and I guess it's fine if you want to address what I say in kind of a aloof, indirect way without directly replying to my recent posts. That's your'e right. But please do not keep posting the stuff above that you are posting without understanding the current environment and changes within the WSO landscape and the manner they are implementing the Rules on a real time basis, particularly with the Income Claims

      This will only confuse people that much more
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  • Profile picture of the author toydistrict
    You mentioned that WF will not advertise it, and from the get go it will have a shady reputation.

    So how much will it cost to post in the underground?
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve B
    Just as a way to give some personal feedback ...

    I think you ought to re-consider the decision to relegate Classified Ads to the underground. IMO, they serve a needed and distinct purpose and appeal to legitimate sellers (and buyers) that want an alternative to the WSO section. If the classifieds go into the underground where they receive less priority, support, and no promotion from the WF, you are essentially removing the "legitimacy" alternative to WSOs and turning your back on members who only advertise in the classifieds, and those who buy from the classifieds.

    To me, and I realize I am apparently in the minority here, the WF is moving away from serious and helpful Internet marketing discussion and toward encouragement of what you are calling the Wild Wild West. As evidence, just look at the main discussion forum and the types of questions that are being asked in proliferation. Serious marketing commentary? or mostly "how do I make the most income, in the least time, without working, using free methods?" types threads.

    Respectfully,

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

      Just as a way to give some personal feedback ...

      I think you ought to re-consider the decision to relegate Classified Ads to the underground. IMO, they serve a needed and distinct purpose and appeal to legitimate sellers (and buyers) that want an alternative to the WSO section. If the classifieds go into the underground where they receive less priority, support, and no promotion from the WF, you are essentially removing the "legitimacy" alternative to WSOs and turning your back on members who only advertise in the classifieds, and those who buy from the classifieds.

      To me, and I realize I am apparently in the minority here, the WF is moving away from serious and helpful Internet marketing discussion and toward encouragement of what you are calling the Wild Wild West. As evidence, just look at the main discussion forum and the types of questions that are being asked in proliferation. Serious marketing commentary? or mostly "how do I make the most income, in the least time, without working, using free methods?" types threads.

      Respectfully,

      Steve
      Been that way for awhile Steve. But does seem to get worse and worse every year
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    • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
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      Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

      Just as a way to give some personal feedback ...

      I think you ought to re-consider the decision to relegate Classified Ads to the underground. IMO, they serve a needed and distinct purpose and appeal to legitimate sellers (and buyers) that want an alternative to the WSO section. If the classifieds go into the underground where they receive less priority, support, and no promotion from the WF, you are essentially removing the "legitimacy" alternative to WSOs and turning your back on members who only advertise in the classifieds, and those who buy from the classifieds.

      To me, and I realize I am apparently in the minority here, the WF is moving away from serious and helpful Internet marketing discussion and toward encouragement of what you are calling the Wild Wild West. As evidence, just look at the main discussion forum and the types of questions that are being asked in proliferation. Serious marketing commentary? or mostly "how do I make the most income, in the least time, without working, using free methods?" types threads.

      Respectfully,

      Steve
      100% wrong my friend

      By us moving stuff that is not what we want to promote we have more time to promote the good products

      Call it wild west... call it hyped products, it seems didn't get the angle of my post

      We are not going to promote those products, we are promoting the Marketplace that comes with our guarantee, where we nurture the best sellers and we reward the top buyers.

      so, in fact, taking this action... allowed us to promote what we think is good and leave in the lower part of the navigation what we don't think is so useful.

      More traffic for the top sellers.... bettter experience for you.... better overall market place.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve B
        Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post

        100% wrong my friend

        Come on Gabe, don't hold back, tell me how you really feel about my personal opinion and feedback.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
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          Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

          Come on Gabe, don't hold back, tell me how you really feel about my personal opinion and feedback.

          Steve
          You just win one brownie point for sarcasm.

          I win one point for telling you the way I think.

          I think you are wrong mate ...

          in reality, this will only increase the quality, we can put energy in the good shit and put zero energy in the stuff we don't think is worth for us to promote.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Steve B View Post


      I think you ought to re-consider the decision to relegate Classified Ads to the underground. I
      Relegate? Don't sweat it my man. this is a marketing forum with marketers. I give it a year before every seller in the underground (can't you feel the sex appeal in the name?)is saying thats the place to be because it has the cool secrets on the edge and the regular section is where the listings that don't make you real money is

      You should be begging the classified ads are in the underground.
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      • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
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        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Relegate? Don't sweat it my man. this is a marketing forum with marketers. I give it a year before every seller in the underground (can't you feel the sex appeal in the name?)is saying thats the place to be because it has the cool secrets on the edge and the regular section is where the listings that don't make you real money is

        You should be begging the classified ads are in the underground.

        Yes... is all about the "secret secrets that only people can buy in the next 48 hours before the secret is removed for ever".....

        But WAIT.... there is more
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Gab wasn't kidding when he said saving sanity was a goal. There are daily complaints from sellers and from members about income claims, etc. Many of the complaints are valid. They require time of admin and mods to research and deal with enforcing rules that are not easily enforced.

    At the same time, members are noticing the same 'income' rules are not enforced in other 'ad sections'. it's reached a point where the only choices are to abandon the rule or change the platform.

    Your argument seems to be that only those running WSO's or long term WSO's should be deciding WSO policies - and I disagree strongly with that. I did not care for some past changes in the WSO platform so stopped using the platform - I used WSOs to fill membership sites and sell PLR.

    In the past 6 months or so the number of WSO visitors has gone from 3-4 TIMES the number in the main forum to less than the numbers of visitors in the main forum. That ratio of visitors is what we had ten years ago - something isn't working right.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


      In the past 6 months or so the number of WSO visitors has gone from 3-4 TIMES the number in the main forum to less than the numbers of visitors in the main forum. That ratio of visitors is what we had ten years ago - something isn't working right.
      Yeah, it is really a ghost town in there anymore. It really is concerning the way it has deteriorated. I just cannot see many people wanting to start new WSOs with the new $40 price tag.

      If I recall right I think he said the Bumps you could buy at discount for 3 for $75 where you pay up front or something like that. Not sure if that is still something they have in stone.

      I pretty much look at WSO section as a marginalized place to actively Market your business/products and more of a 'every now and then' place to build your Buyers List while offering something of quality as well.
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      • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
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        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        Yeah, it is really a ghost town in there anymore. It really is concerning the way it has deteriorated. I just cannot see many people wanting to start new WSOs with the new $40 price tag.

        If I recall right I think he said the Bumps you could buy at discount for 3 for $75 where you pay up front or something like that. Not sure if that is still something they have in stone.

        I pretty much look at WSO section as a marginalized place to actively Market your business/products and more of a 'every now and then' place to build your Buyers List while offering something of quality as well.
        I just spoke to a seller that made 2K last month from an investment of $200 in WSO.

        and as far as I know I don't know that WSO are $40 , are they?
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I just cannot see many people wanting to start new WSOs with the new $40 price tag.
    Where have you seen that price mentioned? News to me.

    If you recall, prior to Freelance purchasing the Warrior Forum in Spring 2014...the cost to launch or bump a WSO was $40. ...and there were at least twice as many new WSO's being launched daily as there are now.

    FL reduced the cost to $20 in 2014.

    Supporting/recommending vetted sellers while also permitting other sellers to advertise here with a clear disclaimer about support/guarantees, etc...makes sense to me. It allows members to make their own choices in buying products here - and defines the risks in a way anyone can understand.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Where have you seen that price mentioned? News to me.

      If you recall, prior to Freelance purchasing the Warrior Forum in Spring 2014...the cost to launch or bump a WSO was $40.
      I must be in the twilight zone because I would have sworn in a thread I saw that would be the new price in the future after the redesign of the WSO marketplace .
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      • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
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        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        I must be in the twilight zone because I would have sworn in a thread I saw that would be the new price in the future after the redesign of the WSO marketplace .
        I know.... spooky huh?
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    • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
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      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Where have you seen that price mentioned? News to me.

      If you recall, prior to Freelance purchasing the Warrior Forum in Spring 2014...the cost to launch or bump a WSO was $40. ...and there were at least twice as many new WSO's being launched daily as there are now.

      FL reduced the cost to $20 in 2014.

      But.... everyone cries and creates a tantrum if we talk about increasing it.

      Oh Marketers.....
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post

        But.... everyone cries and creates a tantrum if we talk about increasing it.

        Oh Marketers.....
        Sorry man, no crying or throwing tantrums here

        I think most people would give others the benefit of the doubt (minus the sarcasm ) when they are just voicing opinions and concerns about the Cost to Market which could potentially increase by 100% as discussed in the past .... per "revamped changes"

        Hey, but that's just me , what do I know

        https://www.warriorforum.com/main-in...date-ohhh.html
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by discrat View Post

          Cost to Market which could potentially increase by 100% as discussed in the past
          Seems to me... If it used to cost $20 and now it costs $40, and regardless of the price you are not selling enough product to market your product and pay the $40 for the bounce.. maybe you need to think about what you are doing ( and this is not ment AT you discrat - sorry )

          The minute you start selling product - you have to think like a business person... business' have expenses. R&D ( creating the product ) Listing the product, advertising the product, financial fees, returns, and what ever else.

          I think the most obvious issue in all of this is this is a forum for and about marketing, and yet when was the last time anyone saw a FaceBook ad for a product listed in the Marketplace?

          I just went through the Special offers section.... half the dang products dont even have names... couldnt find one that had a website ( i just glanced at a few - oh wait I found one, and they werent selling the product they are selling here in any way )

          As a Marketer... its all mind boggling to me. GRANTED listing your product in the marketplace has its own built in audience, but come on now. How are people supposed to buy product that is supposed to help you sell more, if you cant even go out and see the Author doing something other than listing it.

          Maybe the increased rates will reduce THAT... Maybe the increased rates will get people to think about CRO.. about developing USP's.. heck.. have you read the headlines for these things? its almost embarrasing.

          Gabe.. I think what your team is doing is great.. but my goodness you have a long road ahead of you.
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          • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
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            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            Seems to me... If it used to cost $20 and now it costs $40, and regardless of the price you are not selling enough product to market your product and pay the $40 for the bounce.. maybe you need to think about what you are doing ( and this is not ment AT you discrat - sorry )

            The minute you start selling product - you have to think like a business person... business' have expenses. R&D ( creating the product ) Listing the product, advertising the product, financial fees, returns, and what ever else.

            I think the most obvious issue in all of this is this is a forum for and about marketing, and yet when was the last time anyone saw a FaceBook ad for a product listed in the Marketplace?

            I just went through the Special offers section.... half the dang products dont even have names... couldnt find one that had a website ( i just glanced at a few - oh wait I found one, and they werent selling the product they are selling here in any way )

            As a Marketer... its all mind boggling to me. GRANTED listing your product in the marketplace has its own built in audience, but come on now. How are people supposed to buy product that is supposed to help you sell more, if you cant even go out and see the Author doing something other than listing it.

            Maybe the increased rates will reduce THAT... Maybe the increased rates will get people to think about CRO.. about developing USP's.. heck.. have you read the headlines for these things? its almost embarrasing.

            Gabe.. I think what your team is doing is great.. but my goodness you have a long road ahead of you.

            Thanks mate....

            WSO are $20 not $40.
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        • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
          Administrator
          Originally Posted by discrat View Post

          Sorry man, no crying or throwing tantrums here

          I think most people would give others the benefit of the doubt (minus the sarcasm ) when they are just voicing opinions and concerns about the Cost to Market which could potentially increase by 100% as discussed in the past .... per "revamped changes"

          Hey, but that's just me , what do I know

          https://www.warriorforum.com/main-in...date-ohhh.html
          I honestly believe Sellers are lazy
          they don't put enough work in improving the copy.
          I spoke to a seller today $2000 from 1 WSO, investing $200

          That is better ROI of crypto

          Now the reality is one: if you think $20 is too much.... even if you think $40 is too much..... then the decision is easy: Leave the marketplace

          if your duty as a seller to find the best ROI for your own marketing and if you think $20 or $40 is not bringing you the results you require... then the Warrior Forum is not for you.

          This is a marketing channel for your product... but we are not the only one and if you find a better ROI for your $20... you need to take the best decision for your business.
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    Hi Gabriel,

    I like to think of this as the Deep Web of online opportunities Cool idea for folks who are into that type of stuff.

    Let me just say that you and Marcus and the crew have done a sensational job with WF. Really lifting the energy up here. Love it.

    Ryan
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    I guess I flew under the radar, Gabe.

    So here's my question again...

    In the Underground, it sounds like sellers can do almost anything as far as misleading claims, wild promises, etc.

    Are disgruntled buyers going to get the same kind of free play?

    In most of the Wild, Wild West, both sides had guns.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Btw, see where the new WSO interface was implemented today. I like it. Much more professional than old one. Much more, imo

      Thanks Gab. Keep on keeping on
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      If sellers in the 'underground' over promise and under deliver - seems to me word of mouth (or word of text) and buyer dissatisfaction will rather quickly make it unprofitable to sell there.

      That said - if sellers want to make wild claims or promises - why shouldn't they pay more to use WF space without restrictions or 'ethical ads' requirements?

      Such as:

      higher price for 'underground ads'
      reasonable space limitation to avoid ebook-sized sales copy
      ads that run for 30 or 60 days and have to be renewed

      If 'bumps' are allowed they would need to be without limitations of when a seller can bump to avoid mods having to regulate them.

      There are so many ways changes could improve the WF for sellers and for buyers - why not give it a chance?
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by nicheblogger75 View Post

      If a product is shady, and doesn't meet your standard of quality, why allow it at all?

      If you are a product creator, what would be the benefit of even posting a product in the "underground" market?

      Why not just call it the "Shady Products Forum - Come Here To Get Ripped Off?"

      And getting rid of classifieds? Why would you screw all of the people who post legit services in there?

      This is making my head spin...

      How about you guys maybe hire a couple of people to review the products and only allow LEGIT products into the WSO section and LEGIT services in the classifieds section?

      Get rid of all of the ridiculous reviews and free garbage that people post in the classifieds, and just allow REAL classified ads, such as article writers, web designers, traffic vendors, software coders, graphic designers, WordPress experts, etc. You know, REAL services that people need.

      You are overcomplicating things WAY too much.

      All you need is a classifieds section and a WSO section, and a few moderators who have a clue. You don't need to have a section on your forum for products that dirty the MMO niche even more than it already is.

      You guys should be a part of the solution, not the problem. Allowing sub-par products is completely irresponsible.

      What you're really trying to do is make sure you don't alienate all of those shady sellers because then you'll lose that $40 a pop.

      Furthermore, I'm shocked to see how many people actually think this is a good idea.

      Look, the MMO niche is already on pretty thin ice. You guys should be doing whatever you can from discouraging these kinds of products, not giving people a platform for them!

      Damn.. SMH...

      Exactly. The public perception out there is that this place is already full of spammers and scammers. This is just going to confirm it.

      This just looks like a poorly thought out money grab.

      "Hey all you sellers who were chased away because you couldn't comply with the rules or got caught scamming people, come on back. You're welcome here. And to those who have not been caught yet, keep doing what you're doing."

      And even if you keep the sections separate, why in the world would any legit seller want to be associated with this place?
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      • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
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        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        And even if you keep the sections separate, why in the world would any legit seller want to be associated with this place?
        Well, not sure... may be you should ask to the 1000 legit sellers we had this year mate.

        right?
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    • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
      Administrator
      Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

      I guess I flew under the radar, Gabe.

      So here's my question again...

      In the Underground, it sounds like sellers can do almost anything as far as misleading claims, wild promises, etc.

      Are disgruntled buyers going to get the same kind of free play?

      In most of the Wild, Wild West, both sides had guns.
      Hi mate. Yes. I missed it.

      If we get complains the product is not REAL.... so it means you are selling an Apple and is a Banana. I will shut it down....

      Buyers will have the same capacity as Sellers. We just need to verify there was a purchase mate
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  • Profile picture of the author Ged3
    Hi,
    $20 for a WSO is amazing value, when you think of the exposure you can get here.


    I thought it was more than that.


    Although I like the Classified section and I know adverts get hyped up - but that does seem to
    happen generally with internet marketing.


    One internet marketer said that hyping ads was becoming a waste of time because they were losing their credibility, so advertisers had to find a new angle to make their adverts attractive.


    I am pleased that both will still run - I have found valuable products in both.


    Best Regards
    Ged
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  • Profile picture of the author Ged3
    Hi,
    although I can see the reasons for changing the Classified section, I use it to offer free products to help expand my list.


    It will be a shame if it loses the numbers of people that want to go there.


    Will it still have a link on the Warrior Forum?


    Best Regards


    Ged
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  • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
    If a product is shady, and doesn't meet your standard of quality, why allow it at all?

    If you are a product creator, what would be the benefit of even posting a product in the "underground" market?

    Why not just call it the "Shady Products Forum - Come Here To Get Ripped Off?"

    And getting rid of classifieds? Why would you screw all of the people who post legit services in there?

    This is making my head spin...

    How about you guys maybe hire a couple of people to review the products and only allow LEGIT products into the WSO section and LEGIT services in the classifieds section?

    Get rid of all of the ridiculous reviews and free garbage that people post in the classifieds, and just allow REAL classified ads, such as article writers, web designers, traffic vendors, software coders, graphic designers, WordPress experts, etc. You know, REAL services that people need.

    You are overcomplicating things WAY too much.

    All you need is a classifieds section and a WSO section, and a few moderators who have a clue. You don't need to have a section on your forum for products that dirty the MMO niche even more than it already is.

    You guys should be a part of the solution, not the problem. Allowing sub-par products is completely irresponsible.

    What you're really trying to do is make sure you don't alienate all of those shady sellers because then you'll lose that $40 a pop.

    Furthermore, I'm shocked to see how many people actually think this is a good idea.

    Look, the MMO niche is already on pretty thin ice. You guys should be doing whatever you can from discouraging these kinds of products, not giving people a platform for them!

    Damn.. SMH...
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  • Profile picture of the author Ged3
    Hi,
    it would be nice to have a place to give away free products though.


    This could be done when there was a place to post free items - but this is no longer there.


    I would love to see this reinstalled.


    The recipient gained by getting a free ebook etc. and the person giving the ebook away got
    some recognition and a possible new subscriber.


    Just because something is advertised in the WSO section does not necessarily mean it is an outstanding product any more than something in the Classified section means it is a poor product.


    There are good and bad in both - depending on what you are happy with as a customer.


    Look at all the solo ads that are sold in the Classified section - these seem popular and receive great reviews.


    Best Regards


    Ged
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    • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
      Originally Posted by Ged3 View Post

      Hi,
      it would be nice to have a place to give away free products though.


      This could be done when there was a place to post free items - but this is no longer there.


      I would love to see this reinstalled.


      The recipient gained by getting a free ebook etc. and the person giving the ebook away got
      some recognition and a possible new subscriber.


      Just because something is advertised in the WSO section does not necessarily mean it is an outstanding product any more than something in the Classified section means it is a poor product.


      There are good and bad in both - depending on what you are happy with as a customer.


      Look at all the solo ads that are sold in the Classified section - these seem popular and receive great reviews.


      Best Regards


      Ged
      Honestly, I really don't think this forum should be a place to poach leads from.

      A lot of the people on this forum are newbies looking for help. It should be a place to share strategy and great information.

      As far as giving products away, I agree that they should allow free WSOs to be posted in the WSO section like they used to be.

      HOWEVER, free WSOs should NOT be a 10 page lead magnet designed to promote or pre-sell some product or MLM. It should be a quality course that one could charge money for that is being given away to Warriors for free. This was always the original intention of a free WSO.

      Besides, if you want to use the forum to build a list that's what your sig link is for.

      Solo ads are a perfect example of what SHOULD be allowed in the classified section, because it's a service that's being provided.

      Like I said, all of those fake shitty product reviews that offer 100 crappy PLR products as a "bonus" for purchasing through someone's affiliate link are a great example of what DOESN'T belong there.

      Honestly, I'm appalled that the people running this forum are even considering advocating it as a place for low quality, sub-par, "anything goes" products.

      Not to mention the fact that they are basically sending out an open invitation to the FTC to walk right in and shut the whole thing down.

      PLEASE rethink this!
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      • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
        Administrator
        Originally Posted by nicheblogger75 View Post

        Honestly, I really don't think this forum should be a place to poach leads from.

        A lot of the people on this forum are newbies looking for help. It should be a place to share strategy and great information.

        As far as giving products away, I agree that they should allow free WSOs to be posted in the WSO section like they used to be.

        HOWEVER, free WSOs should NOT be a 10 page lead magnet designed to promote or pre-sell some product or MLM. It should be a quality course that one could charge money for that is being given away to Warriors for free. This was always the original intention of a free WSO.

        Besides, if you want to use the forum to build a list that's what your sig link is for.

        Solo ads are a perfect example of what SHOULD be allowed in the classified section, because it's a service that's being provided.

        Like I said, all of those fake shitty product reviews that offer 100 crappy PLR products as a "bonus" for purchasing through someone's affiliate link are a great example of what DOESN'T belong there.

        Honestly, I'm appalled that the people running this forum are even considering advocating it as a place for low quality, sub-par, "anything goes" products.

        Not to mention the fact that they are basically sending out an open invitation to the FTC to walk right in and shut the whole thing down.

        PLEASE rethink this!
        I'm 100% open to have FREE WSO back ...... but I'm not going to give greenlight to have a FREE WSO offering PLR .... so I agree with your point 100%
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by nicheblogger75 View Post

        Not to mention the fact that they are basically sending out an open invitation to the FTC to walk right in and shut the whole thing down.
        If you're talking about the U.S. FTC, I kind of doubt if they have the authority to shut down an Australian company.
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      • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
        Administrator
        Originally Posted by nicheblogger75 View Post


        Honestly, I'm appalled that the people running this forum are even considering advocating it as a place for low quality, sub-par, "anything goes" products.
        I'm appalled that you can't see the big picture and you don't see that we are trying to do something different that is towards improving quality.

        Who is advocating this as a place of low-quality products????

        you need to READ.... THINK and then Write mate.
        Because users like you are the ones that scream fire when there is no fire.

        In fact, doing this filters the quality of the front page, rewards the good stuff, drives more traffic to the good products and brings a sense of quality to the marketplace.

        So next time you scream FIRE... have a look around to see if there is any fire.
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        • Profile picture of the author Thomas Belknap
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post

          I'm appalled that you can't see the big picture and you don't see that we are trying to do something different that is towards improving quality.

          Who is advocating this as a place of low-quality products????

          you need to READ.... THINK and then Write mate.
          Because users like you are the ones that scream fire when there is no fire.

          In fact, doing this filters the quality of the front page, rewards the good stuff, drives more traffic to the good products and brings a sense of quality to the marketplace.

          So next time you scream FIRE... have a look around to see if there is any fire.
          lol You guys are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You want to make money by allowing these low quality products yet want to be known as a high quality website.

          It ain't happening but do proceed for the chuckles.

          This will be a great case study on what not to do. To be honest, since Freelancer took over it has been one case study after another on what not to do.
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          • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
            Administrator
            Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

            lol You guys are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You want to make money by allowing these low quality products yet want to be known as a high quality website.

            It ain't happening but do proceed for the chuckles.

            This will be a great case study on what not to do. To be honest, since Freelancer took over it has been one case study after another on what not to do.
            If you think this is about revenue.... then you are right... let us continue for the chuckles. Happy to give you a free WSO for the humour
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        • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
          Got to say massive respect to Gabriel for being The Head Of Warrior Forum ... And answering your questions.

          Peace.
          : )
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  • Profile picture of the author wentzco
    Why not create your new Underground WSO section but leave the classified ad section alone?

    As others have pointed out, there are many classified ads promoting services, solo ads & other things that have nothing to do with WSOs. I have purchased classified ads to promote a membership & service... which are not WSOs. I also have directed traffic to these ads via PPC & other promotion methods generating backlinks. Please don't screw this up by changing the URLs on our classified ads. These ads are my landing pages.Yeah I send WarriorForum traffic.
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    • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
      Administrator
      Originally Posted by wentzco View Post

      Why not create your new Underground WSO section but leave the classified ad section alone?

      As others have pointed out, there are many classified ads promoting services, solo ads & other things that have nothing to do with WSOs. I have purchased classified ads to promote a membership & service... which are not WSOs. I also have directed traffic to these ads via PPC & other promotion methods generating backlinks. Please don't screw this up by changing the URLs on our classified ads. These ads are my landing pages.Yeah I send WarriorForum traffic.
      Willing to consider this .
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  • Profile picture of the author Ged3
    I think Wentzco has made a good point.


    Not everything in the Classified section should be regarded as underhanded.


    A lot of things in there are good quality - if things were regarded underhanded I am sure that the Mods would be notified and they would be deleted - or the Classifieds would not be as popular as they are.


    I think when anyone purchases anything anywhere there is always an element of "Buyer Beware" this applies online and offline.


    I think that the Classifieds do still have a very positive part to play in this forum (which I think is the best internet marketing forum anywhere).


    Ged
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  • Profile picture of the author Ged3
    Nicheblogger75,


    I don't look upon it as a place to poach leads from - offering something of value in return for a possible subscriber is classic internet marketing - something I learnt here and now we have all the top companies who thought the internet would only last five minutes doing it!


    Best Regards
    Ged
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  • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
    Hi Gabriel,

    I would be all for having it even cost more to place a WSO. But, that increased fee comes with a certification stamp.

    NOT that this WSO works or is safe, but that if the person makes an income claim you had someone check that out.

    You could give 1/2 or 2/3 of the extra fee to a person who part time checks thses things.

    They could do a Go To meeting or some other way, have them log in live to their accounts where they earned this money and show that they have made this much.

    They would get a badge that they can put below their title that says: Income verified or something.

    This may not be the exact solution, but a service like this.

    Thoughts?
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    • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
      Administrator
      Originally Posted by Enfusia View Post

      Hi Gabriel,

      I would be all for having it even cost more to place a WSO. But, that increased fee comes with a certification stamp.

      NOT that this WSO works or is safe, but that if the person makes an income claim you had someone check that out.

      You could give 1/2 or 2/3 of the extra fee to a person who part time checks thses things.

      They could do a Go To meeting or some other way, have them log in live to their accounts where they earned this money and show that they have made this much.

      They would get a badge that they can put below their title that says: Income verified or something.

      This may not be the exact solution, but a service like this.

      Thoughts?
      It's a great idea mate, but we tried to find a way to verify income claim and we 100% couldn't and I don't have the resources to implement it.

      We tried via Warrior Payments but we all know Warrior Payments it's not 100% ideal... so the idea is brilliant. Just not easy for me to implement it. I wish mate
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    • Profile picture of the author Gabriel
      Administrator
      Originally Posted by Enfusia View Post

      Hi Gabriel,

      I would be all for having it even cost more to place a WSO. But, that increased fee comes with a certification stamp.

      NOT that this WSO works or is safe, but that if the person makes an income claim you had someone check that out.

      You could give 1/2 or 2/3 of the extra fee to a person who part time checks thses things.

      They could do a Go To meeting or some other way, have them log in live to their accounts where they earned this money and show that they have made this much.

      They would get a badge that they can put below their title that says: Income verified or something.

      This may not be the exact solution, but a service like this.

      Thoughts?
      100% epic idea, but I don't have the support from the Gods above to do so.
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post


    the Underground.

    The underground is "the old wild west of WSO" or a marketplace where we believe the offers promoted or listen don't fit our quality standards and we are not 100% sure of the authenticity of the offers.

    Example:

    Brand new users
    .
    2c - I am not sure as a new user that you should be automatically labelled in the dark underground, that is a akin to being judged guilty before trial, or regardless of who you are we will place you in the trash pile we don't care about until you learn to swim above the sheite.

    An alternative could be to place new people in the main wso section, but with what would be similar to a learner driver with a "L" badge of sorts in that it tells this person is new, and at this stage we are not here to judge but please be warned they are new and we are in a review period.

    all being good the "L" badge is removed and become a fully fledged WSO approved member or they are banished to the back lots of doom, and all good if that is so, but to judge one before any evidence seems unfair.
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