Internet Marketer vs Entrepreneur

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Hi all. Out of curiosity, I'm interested to see what category you would put yourself in: are you an Internet Marketer or an Entrepreneur?

To clarify:

You're an Internet Marketer if you:
  • Use Internet Marketing techniques to drive traffic to a page
  • Promote your own product or someone elses
  • Your primary purpose is to make money

You're an Entrepreneur if you:
  • Have a registered business name
  • have a business bank account
  • Have a business philosophy and business model
  • Have systems in place
  • Have your own products and/or services
  • Have a team
  • You can scale your business and you have a plan to do so
  • You have a personal vision and a business mission

Which one are you?
#main internet marketing discussion forum #entrepreneur #internet #marketer
  • Technically speaking.... if you are and " Internet Marketer " you " technically " have to have a registered business name.. should have a business account.. have a business philosophy.. have systems in place etc etc

    I would think of it this way.. We are ALL Entrepreneur's.. some of us just focus on online efforts.

    I personally have my own products and service.. but I also sell other peoples products and services. I sell both online and offline. Am I an " Entrepreneur "? Yes, without question. am I an " Internet Marketer "? Yes, without a question.

    Not such a fine line in the sand on this one
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  • The two are not mutually exclusive.

    The type of promotional methods used by said person has nothing to do with the definition.
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    • It's generally accepted that entrepreneurs behave differently concerning marketing, according to Management & Marketing. Unfortunately, entrepreneurial marketing is not highly developed. "There is a strong need to develop tools, principles and theories to help businesses -- especially start-ups and small ones -- to survive and thrive in an increasingly hostile and unpredictable environment."
  • Both.

    To become an internet marketer, you first have to be an entrepreneur and have that mindset.

    I've always been an entrepreneur and been self-employed with the exception of a few jobs I had as a teenager. At the same time, I was always interested in marketing but never had the funds until the internet came along and leveled the playing ground.

    However, when asked what I do for a living, my response is internet marketer.
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  • The definitions you've given suggest everyone fits into one category or the other. My decades of experience in business suggests that such a dichotomy isn't reality.

    Every entrepreneur I've known is part marketer and promoter of his business - he has to be - it's his mission to promote what he is doing to create, run, and make money from his business. If you're a solo entrepreneur (like probably 99% of the members here), who is going to market your business if you don't?

    Likewise, Internet marketers are in business for themselves or their employer and they should always have a business name, bank account, business model, and systems in place so they can execute and scale their business. They don't necessarily have a team in place ... but that's not a prerequisite for a solo entrepreneur either.

    The great thing about online business is that you can create yours to be anything you want it to be!

    Steve
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  • I don't think the divide is between Entrepreneur and Internet Marketer.

    The dividing line is between Entrepreneur and Hustler (in its best sense).

    An entrepreneur is looking to build something lasting -- a business, a legacy, etc.

    A hustler isn't looking for anything long term. They just want to cash in on money-making opportunities, milk them while they can, and then move on to the next opportunity.

    In truth, over the years I've been both at one time or another.
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  • I label myself as an Internet Marketer. I have no attachment to any niche or product that i sell. When something new and hot comes around, i hop on it and take advantage. If a niche becomes stale and my profits from the niche decreases, then i go into a different niche and replicate the marketing model i used in all of the other niches i delve into.
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  • Great responses -- it seems everyone has the same basic idea -- and it points to a key piece of info I didn't communicate. Let me explain a little better.

    From the time I've spent reading posts here on WF and from the time I've spent watching other people's marketing efforts, I see a trend where people jump into this marketing thing and they have one thing in mind: make money.

    They try to understand the process and then they do one or more marketing things (become an affiliate and drive traffic to a page, etc). They do this in the pursuit of money not because they have a business idea, an entrepreneurial spirit, or a desire to solve a problem in the marketplace..

    In the world of business, you have employees and business owners and then you have that in-between state that includes independent contractors but also others who are able to earn money informally through transactions.

    For example,anyone can setup a PayPal account, link it to their personal bank account, become an affiliate, drive some traffic and earn some money. That is not officially a business - it's just an ability to facilitate a transaction.

    If you look back at my original post, you can see why I included such things as registered business name (with a local municipality), business bank account (rather than just a personal account), etc. People who are just trying to make some money with marketing lack the stability and long-term sustainability that would make it a legitimate business. You can get a deeper understanding of this from reading the E-myth series of books from Michael Gerber (E-myth, E-myth Revisited, E-myth Mastery).

    So - from that perspective I'd like to see how many just run marketing mechanisms vs how many have actually setup a business and have a mission to drive their ambition.
  • Thanks Randell -- that's exactly what I was looking for on the Internet Marketing side.

    Question for you: have you thought about creating a business (either out of what you're doing now or something else) and if so, what problem would you try to solve for your customers or clients?
  • Based on criteria you chose? If you 'facilitate' transactions to the tune of 10s of thousands of dollars - who is anyone to say you 'don't have a real business'?

    I've had bank accts in business names without 'registering a business name' because that was legal where I lived. Why jump through legal hoops if you don't have to? A 'marketing mechanism' that pays the bills every month year after year is just fine without an 'official' name, wouldn't you say?

    I understood the OP but now it seems to be trying to drag it out or take the idea in a new direction. I've often known entrepreneurs who were not good 'businessmen' - but I've known very few businessmen (or women) who were not also entrepreneurs at some level.

    [quoteSo - from that perspective I'd like to see how many just run marketing mechanisms vs how many have actually setup a business and have a mission to drive their ambition. ][/quote]

    Why do I feel you have a pre-determined 'direction' in mind?
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  • Not sure why you feel that way - I don't think I said anything to give that impression. Based on the responses that I was getting, it seemed to me that I didn't properly explain what I was looking for. So, I attempted to clarify.

    Randell nailed it - spot on. His response was exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. You're either an entrepreneur building a business or you're doing marketing to make money. That's what I was looking for.

    II seriously doubt anyone would get to that level just running some marketing mechanisms. Business isn't that easy that you can just get some traffic and make 10's of thousands of dollars. If you can -- someone point me to that. I'll sign up.

    I'm not sure if that clarifies my position any better or not (that's why I suggested reading the E-myth series because that really captures the full depth of what it means to be an entrepreneur). My only direction/agenda is to see how many are doing one or the other and to create a conversation around that.
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    • What business doesn't do marketing?Whether you are a registered business or a sole proprietor, you need to market your business online and offline.

      Whether it's a direct response business solving a niche problem, or an online business solving a niche problem, business is business.

      Most entrepreneurs don't even have sales funnels, like most internet marketers do. So who is really in business long term, the marketer or the entrepreneur?
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  • I guess I'm a bit confused by this sentiment - considering so many seem to be in agreement with it. Business and entrepreneurship are not the same. Similarly, conducting a transaction doesn't mean you have a business. Am I alone in this understanding?

    Business is the organized process of bringing a product or service to market with the intent of making a profit. Entrepreneurship is the process of creating a business system that solves a problem for a group of people who have the problem.-- and the major distinguishing characteristic is that the business system is designed to scale and solve more and more problems of a similar nature. A corner store coffee shop is not the product of entrepreneurship unless the owner has created a specific set of systems and then opens multiple coffee shops based on that system (although, if the owner didn't scale the business, I'd still consider them an entrepreneur if they were able to step out of the business and it still functioned and grew in sales and profitability).

    Beyond that - a true entrepreneur has a mission that drives them -- something much bigger than themselves or the business. And the business is the vehicle that drives the mission.

    Having said that, can we agree that there tons of people who are doing Internet Marketing who are not entrepreneurs or business owners - they are simply facilitating a transaction that generates some money (which may not even be at a profit when you consider how much time and investment was involved to get to that point)?
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    • I couldnt agree with this... when I am reading your descriptions of what a business is... they are off based. Amazon defies your defenitions.. they dont have a product or service they are selling other peoples goods for a profit.. well actually a loss no? Tigerdirect.com they have no product.. they have developed over time offline brick and morter stores.. but again they defy your defenition.

      Internet Marketing is a sub niche for " Marketing " as a whole. No different than those of us that use Newspaper ads, or Billboards, or TV commercials.

      Here is one for you.. Don Lapre the " Tiny want ads " guy.. how do you label him and those that followed his practices? I personally use tiny little ads... they actually work... doesnt make me an " Internet Marketer " Wouldnt really need a business liscense.. just getting the cash.... So according to your defenitions im not even an entrepreneur.

      The truth here is we all are entrepreneurs... some of us CHOOSE to be legit about it, and report our income. Some of us understand that doing so can create value for the business.. Value for a business if done correctly translates to equity, giving the business value. A business of value like any commodity can be sold.

      Some may call this serial entrepreneurship... I call it good business. Im not here to change the world.. not really here to sell my own products.... I actually dont have any... I do sell services, but primarily in an offline setting.. yet I market online. Im here to create value for what it is I am developing... I am not looking to build an empire.. I dont have an agenda - other than making dollars.

      I do what I enjoy, and I enjoy what I do.. you can try and label and twist any of this. In all things there are lessor degrees and greater... from the guy loosing money trying to make a buck to the guy that has the midus touch and plays video games and makes $500,000 a month ( ninja playing fortnight )
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    • So you are saying that businesses like airbnb.com that don't own the properties that they are offering for vacation rentals, is not a business.

      Similarly the Gumtree website and other such classified websites like Craig's list and so forth, allow you to advertise your products/services for sale on their websites. Are they not considered businesses either, according to your definitions and standards?
  • Hi RB,

    Neither

    I am a pro blogger who mainly blogs for fun. But being detached helped me make money.

    I am about sharing value, helping folks, building bonds and inspire folks to live their dreams.

    Very not into outcomes....which helps the outcomes to manifest.

    Ryan
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  • Great answer Ryan!!!! Love it. Thanks for that.
  • I prefer the moniker of money maker
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  • I was starting as an Internet Marketer and now I am an Entrepreneur.
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  • Banned
    we need to implement both ways.. if you are entrepreneur is because you want to make money!
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  • @affmarketer101

    Awesome! Thanks for that.

    @savidge4

    You don't see their platform as a service? You don't see AWS as a service? Interesting.

    100% right on that -- but that's not what we're talking about. From that perspective, you're talking about a company using marketing and/or Internet Marketing to promote their business.. I'm talking about one person who does nothing but run a blog, run an affiliate campaign -- in other words straight Internet Marketers. Just making some money or just getting started -- and all. I'm asking is how many are in that category vs. being a full-blown entrepreneur. I'm trying to see if the majority are in the IM category or if the majority is in the entrepreneur category. I really don't understand why I'm getting poked over this.

    He sold a product and had a system. Not sure how that doesn't fit my definition. I bought his stuff back in the day -- it was literally a box of workbooks and training materials.

    There's quite a few people who would disagree with you on that. I mean, it's case by case - but, a business owner does not automatically qualify as an entrepreneur -- and neither does an Internet Marketer who does nothing more than facilitate transactions.

    Oddly enough, creating value and "no agenda other than making dollars" is not exactly compatible. If you're adding value, that's awesome -- but how do you do that without having an agenda or without having more in the game?

    If you have a couple of minutes, watch the video below -- it hints at some of the stuff that I'm talking about. But, as I've stated, if you haven't read the E-myth series (or studied Jay Abraham, Dan Kennedy, Robert Kiyosaki, Perry Marshall, etc.) then you may not be coming from the same mindset. Let me know what you think about the video:

    Start with why -- how great leaders inspire action | Simon Sinek | TEDxPugetSound - YouTube
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    • Its not how I label them.. I am using YOUR labeling as the bench mark you have said:

      and: Think about this for a moment... Amazon and Ebay... not even promoting product, just selling it.. Aside from the scale of the operation is there really a difference?

      Risk is an interesting thing... Risk is generally measured by percentage of plausibility or a percentage of what you have vs what you may loose. So Risk is then variable... investing $200 in the are necessities of building a affiliate site etc isn't much to some of us... but I am sure you have read the forum.. to OTHERS its a lot to bear, and a large risk.

      I would say your getting " poked " because you are seeing a company vs a person as different? At the very core aside from scale they are one in the same. When I worked by myself vs now as a company... the only difference is the scale. In both cases I was and am still an entrepreneur. Never was I a " Internet Marketer " that is an activity I pursued as an " entrepreneur ".

      I wasn't referring to him personally.. but rather how you would classify those that used his course... Offline Marketer?

      I wont disagree with you on the point there will be people that disagree.. but again, looking at scale doesn't make things any different. The reality is in front of every " business " is an entrepreneur; Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, The Colonel, Mark Zuckerberg, Dave Thomas, Dave Hewlett & Dave Packer. I would suggest by definition:

      EVERY business owner is just that... an entrepreneur. And like I said before there is no separation aside from scale between the guy stuck in his mothers basement knowing there is a better way and plugging away at affiliate marketing and Ebay / Pierre Omidyar. Both just sitting there " facilitating transactions " just one is doing it to scale

      using the video as a frame of reference. I am very " How " focused... I use How as an equal to why... In the development of any of my properties or " business' " I very much operate from the outside in, but market from the inside out. I focus greatly on outcomes. Outcomes are a benchmark to value.. and they happen to pay bills LOL

      Actually pretty familiar with the video... not so keen on the names listed ( but thats a personal thing ) I understand where you are coming from.. I get it. what I am saying is that the boxes you are trying to create really dont exist... Anyone and everyone that puts themselves in the game, Again, by definition is an entrepreneur. If they have success and scale thier efforts... they have a business from that point.

      Whats sad in many ways is that people that focus on " Internet Marketing " have a pretty miserable success rate. That means the time, the effort, the blood, the sweat, and tears, ultimately the RISK, is for not.

      The reality is in the offline world.. its the same thing, the risk doesnt pan out. And its not even for the little guys... Sears, K-Mart, Toys R Us, Radio Shack, WoolWorths. To scale regardless of that guy in the basement or big monster corporations Risk is present... failure is an option.
  • @iamludwig

    I agree - you do need both, particularly if you want long-term success. But, there isn't anything wrong with staying at the basic IM level if that's all you want. I'm not saying everyone has to become an entrepreneur.

    And wanting to make money is definitely a core motivation for doing any business activity. But, for the entrepreneur, there has to be more to it than just money. In fact, as you grow, you start to realize that money/profit is a side-effect of running a business correctly - which is a big part of being an entrepreneur as well. You need to have a desire to serve the people who need your product or service at a high level.

    Jay Abraham talks about the difference between having clients and having customers. Customers are just people who buy a product. A client is someone who is under your care and protection. So, you need to develop the mindset that all of the people who buy from you are your clients and you have their best interest at heart - not just a desire to line your own pockets.

    Three's a lot that goes into running a business - it's not just the product or the transaction.
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    • The key difference between being an entrepreneur and running a business is that the entrepreneur is driven by the process, whereas a business is driven by the profits. That doesn't preclude either group from having a desire to serve.

      Entrepreneurs are typically opportunists whose motivation lies in creating and growing businesses - then moving on. In that sense, business owners who remain in the same business for many years- or a lifetime - aren't entrepreneurs. Maybe they can be called ex-entrepreneurs.

      That has nothing to do with the definitions you're talking about. A doctor or nurse has someone under their care and attention and has their best interest at heart. Clients is just a posh term for customers used by the professions to give their work perceived gravitas. But, in effect, anyone who has clients really has a job.

      Again, your mindset regarding customers, while it may be worthy, has no bearing on the definitions being debated here.
  • Wow - amazing the amount of confusion/alternative points of view in this thread alone...no wonder people become confused.

    The way I look at it is quite simple...

    1. You are an entrepreneur when your main/sole function and source of income in life is your own business...or you are working toward this becoming a reality. This means you have an idea, market and are progressing or have progressed toward building customers, sales and profit from your business. It does not include people who wish, dream, raise money without action , etc....they may well get there some day, but that's not an entrepreneur

    2. Internet marketing is the act of marketing online (sorry to be so simple....but that's what it is!) - someone can be an internet marketer for the largest corporations in the world...they are still marketing on the internet. Similarly, an entrepreneur may build a business that is predominantly online (how they reach their customers, fulfill, support, etc...) and so they may be mainly doing internet marketing as a way to grow their business.

    3. Finally, either one of these can be niche markets TO WHICH other businesses or marketers market TO...someone can target entrepreneurs with courses, techniques, software or services that help them build their business - offline or online. Others may specifically target internet marketers with Tools (Ex Clickfunnels that helps build sales funnels for internet marketers - who may or may not be entrepreneurs)

    #1 is defining what it is to build and grow a business (online or offline)
    #2 is defining a specific way or marketing any business (largest corporation or even government sites right to smallest of businesses led by a single entrepreneur)
    #3 defines either the business or the marketing arm as a market for their products or services

    If you aspire to be an entrepreneur, then start with the business fundamentals of defining your market, finding demand, identifying a unique value and THEN you can consider the best way to reach that market with your message - which may, in-fact be internet marketing methods.

    Make sense?
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  • [DELETED]
  • The OP went wrong when he put entrepreneur vs internet marketing when the main distinction he makes is between being set up as a business and not being set up as a business, between having a sophisticated set up or not.

    He adds to the confusion by refusing to accept that you can be an internet marketer with a sophisticated set up or a business - a coffee shop with several locations with a bad set up.

    Not all entrepreneurs are internet marketers but all internet marketers are entrepreneurs, the most successful have better overall systems set up.

    You can be an entrepreneur and bad at setting up businesses...
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    • And you can be a failed entrepreneur by setting up a business, badly.
  • @jbsmith

    Exactly - and what's crazy about it is my OP had nothing to do with debating what an entrepreneur is or what an IM is.

    I asked a simple question -- are you an IM or are you an entrepreneur. And to make sure that I got the correct response based on what I wanted to know, I gave a list of criteria for both. That way, anyone reading it could easily tell which category they were in.

    How hard is this really? If you are one person doing a marketing mechanism like affiliate marketing with no other goal except to make some extra money -- then, for my purposes in this thread, you're an IM. If you have a business name, mission, product/service, etc. - then you're an entrepreneur. Simple. Just pick which ever one most closely matches where you are and post that.

    Instead, I've got a bunch of people telling me that I don't know the definition of entrepreneur and I don't know the definition of a business -- yada yada, blah blah. Really? Never mind that I have a bachelors degree in business and I've been studying the topic for 15+ years -- but I'm wrong. Okay cool -- thanks for that.

    @DABK

    No I didn't go wrong anywhere - you misunderstood the purpose of my post. If you care to participate, then just pick the category that matches your situation and post that. I'm not here to defend my definition of anything.
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    • I have own businesses and gave done internet marketing; both for one reason only: to make money.

      I am both... And more.

      Your dichotomy does not exist in my world and I am certain you can set up affiliate marketing as a business.
  • Excuse me, but if you use IM techniques to drive traffic to a page, unless you are you doing so at the directions of an 'employer,' how are you NOT an entrepreneur?

    Where did you get that Bachelor's degree - the Grace L. Ferguson Airline and Storm Door Company?
  • If you didn't want discussion, what exactly is your purpose in this thread?

    Since we all's so damn dumb, please 'splain to us what you are trying to accomplish here. We's awaitin'...

    You know a definition of a business. Apparently, the one they taught you in business school. Just because you managed to complete the required classes for that degree doesn't mean you know the definitive answers.

    Given your responses, you don't know as much as you think you do about human nature. You posited a question that asked people to accept your definition of what they did, and when they didn't accept that definition, you spent your energy trying to convince them they were wrong and you are right.
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    • Yeah - and one of me is plenty!
  • @Optedin

    I can't believe I'm going to do this...but, here goes:

    From Dictionary.com

    Entrepreneur - a person who organizes and manages any enterprise, especially a business, usually with considerable initiative and risk

    If you're someone who does nothing more than promote someone else's product through an affiliate arrangement, do you really call that "managing an enterprise". And how much initiative and risk is this person taking?

    Now you're just being down-right rude. What's the point of this? Do you treat everyone this way? You and everyone else jumped in and criticized me - not the other way around. When you come to my thread and derail the purpose of what I'm trying to accomplish - yeah, I'm going to push back.

    @JohnMcCabe

    Seriously? I didn't say I didn't want discussion. What I don't want is a bunch of people twisting my post into something that it was never intended to be.

    How many times do I have to explain it before you figure this out. I asked people to pick one of two categories that was the closest match for where they are and then I defined the criteria for the categories.

    I can't explain it any better. How about you go and troll some other thread and perhaps we can get back to having a legitimate discussion here.

    No I posted a question delineating two opposite ends of a spectrum. One is a two-dimensional transaction based money machine and the other is a well-oiled machine. I specified criteria so that people could identify the one that matched their situation.

    I just don't get this at all. When I posted message here in the past, I don't remember there being so many rude people who would rather argue than have a conversation. Do you have anything constructive to add to this thread?
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    • A meaningless term that can't be objectively quantified.

      Thank you.
  • Why label yourself as either? Are you just marketing, or are you building a sustainable business? If you're not even yet sure what you're doing, but hope to be doing the latter, why would you even want to call yourself an internet marketer? Educate yourself, dive in and learn by doing, and don't concern yourself with labels. Seriously, why even discuss it?
  • @DABK

    That's because you still refuse to see what my post is about. How's this for an explanation. I'm conducting an informal poll. There are two options on the poll so it's basically a SCALE BETWEEN TWO POINTS.

    The first option on the poll is Internet Marketer -- which I'm saying is someone who is just doing like one thing -- affiliate marketing, video marketing -- whatever. They put their marketing thing out there and they make some money and that's it.

    That's one end of the spectrum. There are people on this forum who fit in this category, yes? Maybe not YOU DABK -- and that's fine.

    Then the second option is someone who is doing something way more complex than just a marketing mechanism. They've got a business plan, a system, a product or service that they created, etc, etc. It's much much more than whatever the IM person from the first option is doing (the other end of the spectrum). There are people on this forum who fit in this category, yes?

    Why am I asking? Because I want to see if there are more on the IM side or more on the complex business side here in this forum (and yes I'm calling the more complex one an "entrepreneur" and I'd love for someone to show me one thing that I offered as a criteria of an entrepreneur that's wrong). The only other thing that someone might try to argue is whether a one-off IM is an entrepreneur. I say no - but if you think they are -- fantastic. But, that has nothing to do with my TWO OPTIONS that I put out there so that people could tell which category they were in. You're either big or small; simple or complex, one thing or a well-oiled machine. You can't be both.

    All I've been asking is for people to say which one they are in. If you don't like these two options, there's two things you can do -- suggest a third option or go somewhere else.

    @John Rogers

    First, thanks for participating and at least not criticizing me like everyone else did. I'm not sure if your comment is general or if you wanted me to answer it. If you wanted an answer, I'd say I'm not trying to label anyone. I just wanted the feedback to see how many were in each category. But, on the general side, I'm with you on that. Great observations.

    So hopefully I've cleared up all the confusion here -- if anyone is still not with me on this, I don't know what else to say. I mean, if you don't want to participate in the poll, that's fine. But I just can't fathom how this turned into a nit-picking contest. I had no ill-will towards anyone, didn't insult anyone, and didn't criticize anyone - I simply asked a question (and man what a wasted effort at this point, right?)
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    • I do not refuse to see that and I am not criticizing you.
      You want to see who is small fish and who is big fish. But you are asking via a dichotomy that does noy exist: internet marketer vs entrepreneur.

      The result of your poll? The vast majority here is small fish. Unless the measuring stick is Amazon or Google, then everyone is small fish.



  • An Internet Marketer is a subset of Entrepreneurs, it's not either or. If you're an internet marketer and you work for yourself, you're an Entrepreneur

    An Entrepreneur according to Google's dictionary- a person who organizes and operates a business or businesses, taking on greater than normal financial risks in order to do so..

    I have a registered LLC, a checking and credit card account, I am an internet marketer, an Opportunist And I am passionate about the process of making a profit and sustaining a long term business.

    I have an understanding what you are going for... Someone who just wants to make money vs someone who wants to build something that lasts a lifetime. I get it, but both types of people are entrepreneurs because they are taking risks. You HAVE to want to make money to make it as an Entrepreneur, if not then you just have this thing you do that takes up your life.

    And because you don't have a registered corporation doesn't mean you don't have a business at least not in the legal sense. As long as you are providing a product or service and a transaction has to take place between 2 or more parties there is a business.

    90% of companies fail because people focus on the wrong things. They focus on incorporating and company structure, opening bank accounts, administrative, taking out lines of credit to pay employees when they are not even making a dime and organizational stuff when your only focus should be sales and marketing. People seem to forget admin tasks won't make you money they take up your time.

    The first year I had my LLC I filed my franchise tax almost a year late and had to pay a $50.00 fee, My only focus was improving my selling and closing more deals and keeping clients. Now filing your tax late is irresponsible, but my point is people focus on everything else except making money, which I think is ridiculous! And because I making money I just pay an accounting firm to do my taxes.
  • If you are creating a passive income in what you do or what you did then you are both.
  • @Mikhail Hunter

    First -- congrats on your success. And thank you for at least being civil and not trying to beat me over the head about all this.

    I get where you're coming. Here's the thing. I could have called my categories Group A and Group B. I could have called my categories Marketer A and Marketer B. Instead I chose to call them Internet Marketer and Entrepreneur.

    Why? My first category is literally someone who does nothing more than just Internet Marketing. So what else would you call this person except Internet Marketer. Sure - you can call an entrepreneur who does Internet marketing an Internet Marketer if you want to -- but that has nothing to do with this post or what I'm trying to look at.

    I used "entrepreneur" as the other category because I assumed everyone would know what an entrepreneur was. But, just to make sure everyone understood the difference between what I'm looking for in the two categories, I provided criteria so people could clearly see which one applied to them.

    I was not saying - an entrepreneur is exactly this list of things and nothing else. I was not saying if you're an Internet Marketer you can not possibly be an entrepreneur. I wasn't saying anything at all about either side except: WHICH ONE ARE YOU.

    Literally every single response to this post should have been like:

    "I'm on IM"

    "I'm on entrepreneur"

    "I'm an IM"

    "I'm an IM"

    "I"m an entrepreneur"

    On and on -- and instead I got this pointless debate about what an entrepreneur is and whether I could possibly know what I'm talking about???? Anyway, thanks for responding. It's just a shame that so many people here have an ego that needs to reach out and tell people they are wrong -- rather than just trying to understand and communicate.
  • rbarnhart1

    You got my answer because your first group is a subset of the second for me and for most of the people I know who are entrepreneurs.

    I am talking about this:
    • Use Internet Marketing techniques to drive traffic to a page
    • Promote your own product or someone elses
    • Your primary purpose is to make money
    and because some of the criteria for the 2nd group belong to the first 2:
    • Have a business philosophy and business model
    • Have systems in place
    • You can scale your business and you have a plan to do so
    • You have a personal vision and a business mission
  • I think you have to look at it in the sense of - IF you do it for a company that is NOT yours, then you are an internet marketer. IF you do it for YOURSELF, then you are an entrepreneur. Me = Entrepreneur.
  • I am an entrepreneur working in the Internet Marketing niche.

    Case closed.
  • @anythingpixel

    You're really close - definitely on the right track. In both categories, you're working for yourself. In the second category, you own a company and you're using Internet Marketing to promote your own business, products, and services.

    Thanks for your response.
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  • @Optedin

    BAM!! Thank you. Now we're on it. :-)
  • @DABK

    Got it -- yes, we're definitely on the same page with the result part -- It's just that it really isn't a subset - at least as far as this post is concerned. Here's the thing - if you want to have a debate over what is and what isn't an entrepreneur -- awesome. We could do that - in another thread. But for this poll - if you are doing Internet Marketing and you have a business and are doing business things beyond running an affiliate campaign - then yes you would be considered an entrepreneur for this post.

    That's all I was getting at. I don't understand why so many people wanted to beat me over the head for that.
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  • Ego?

    Pot, meet kettle.

    Why didn't you just announce this as a poll and ask where people fit in, A or B, instead of trying to define the terms ahead of time? Instead, you laid down the law -- these are the definitions, and when people questioned the definitions, you got uppity and questioned why we didn't understand something so obviously simple to you. Talking down to people gets push back, as you've seen.

    So does labelling anyone who pushes back as a "troll."

    Because many of the people who hang out here and participate view themselves as entrepreneurs, even though they don't fit your neat definitions. It's not an understanding thing, it's a self image thing. Especially when the person challenging that image uses language that tends to be dismissive - are you a real entrepreneur (by my exact definition) or are you merely an Internet marketer?

    That may not have been your intention, but that's how you come off. And continuing to protest your frustration with why people can't simply accept the box you want them to enter and raise their hands for you poll isn't helping you..
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  • @JohnMcCabe

    At least we're getting to some real conversation with an intent to understand.


    I didn't actually intend for it to BE a poll -- it's just kind of what it is. I never thought I'd have to explain such a simple concept. I laid out two options and asked people to pick one. If you don't feel you fit into one of the two options I offered you can either not participate or you can just choose the one that is closest to your situation. Or, you can ask for clarification. I don't understand why this is so complicated.

    No - that's not it at all -- that's how people decided to perceive it. I simply offered a set of criteria so people could decide which one fit them better. There was nothing in there that said "you must be exactly this". It was a distinction between two extremes -- nothing more.

    That's the first helpful bit of information I've been given so far. And yet -- it still completely misses that I'm not trying to define anybody or put someone in a box. There are people who do one small thing and there are people who do a complex set of things.

    If you're an affiliate doing nothing more than driving traffic and you want to call yourself an entrepreneur -- I'm down with that. But, in the real world, anyone who is in business would not seriously look at that person as an entrepreneur -- and there's no judgement in that. There's nothing wrong with just being an affiliate and doing your own thing.

    But, for this "poll" -- it's rather important to make the distinction so that I get an accurate picture of what I wanted to know. That's the key. If I didn't care about what the answers were -- then sure, call it whatever you want. But, I wanted people to choose between two specific things for the purpose of what I wanted to know. Are you doing one little thing or are you running a real-world business. And the only problem is that people seem to be hung up that I called the real-world business option an entrepreneur.

    The real problem is that people would rather tell someone they are wrong than try to understand what they are actually saying. I didn't start getting frustrated until people started being rude and hateful about the whole thing.

    I'm not going to change the criteria of what I want to know just because people are rude and can't be bothered to ask a question or try to understand what's already been stated three different ways. This was not a hard concept -- people just wanted to "be right".

    Basically what it seems like your saying is that it's okay for everyone else to be offended by how I presented the information but I'm not allowed to be offended by rude people who would rather create drama than participate in a conversation.

    I haven't participated here on WF for quite awhile - and to be honest, if the forum has devolved to the point that you can't ask a simple question without being run over -- I think I'll just spend my time somewhere else. Because who has time to go through this every time they want to start a conversation.
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    • Everything in life is a choice based on a cost/benefit analysis. If you're not able to get your needs met, here - the way you like them to be met, them yes - you're time might be best served, elsewhere.
  • If you are a successful internet marketer then you are an entrepreneur as well...
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  • @OptedIn

    Well said. The thing is - it's not about getting my needs met. It's about having to wade through post after post of explaining and debating -- just to get a simple concept across. And beyond that - having people going out of their way to detract from the main point of the post.

    In other words - it's about the way people are choosing to behave here rather than getting my needs met. I was simply curious about what type of marketers were in this group. That's all I wanted to find out. And after hammering through post after post, I think maybe 5 people actually responded while everyone else just wanted to argue.

    So, yeah that's not serving my needs -- but really I just would rather hang out with people who don't have preconceived ideas about what I'm saying. I mean seriously -- if someone was really that interested in participating in a conversation -- doesn't it seem more reasonable to ask the poster a question than to criticize them and suggest they don't even know what they're talking about?
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    • It's the Internet and it's an open forum. While I doubt you'd agree, since I'm sure you won't see it this way, I think you're living in a world of unrealistic expectations, regardless of how basic you feel those expectations might be. Most people are not going to rise to the level that you expect of them, regardless of how low you might feel that the bar has been set.

      This place will never be what you want it to be. It will just be what it is.

      Life is full of disappointment. You can either accept that reality or live a life riddled with frustration and anger. You stated the problem when you said, "When I posted messages here in the past, I don't remember there being so many rude people who would rather argue than have a conversation."

      The past is ancient history. Life is change and this place is no exception. That said, one man's argument is another man's discussion. It's all a matter of perspective.

      May I say in closing that your use of the word, "hateful" in how you were responded to was way off the mark. You'll never make friends calling people that disagree with you or challenge your premise, "hateful." Not here, or anywhere else. Just a suggestion, but you'll go a lot further in life and business by eliminating that word from your personal lexicon. It will never serve you well.

      Just my 2¢ and sorry if it came across as preachy. Not really my intent and this is way outside my traditional style of interaction. Ask around. :-)
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  • @radu

    I hear you man -- everyone is saying that. I don't agree with that necessarily - and honestly, I don't mind debating that. But, this thread isn't for that debate. We can create a new thread and debate there. In this thread -- I was just looking for people to decide if they are doing only internet marketing or if they are using internet marketing to promote their own business -- in other words, engaging in an actual business that they created. Maybe I should have called that person a "business owner" but I chose to call them an "entrepreneur" and because of that - the whole thread has broken down into a debate

    Anyway - thanks for your input.
    • [13] replies
    • @OptedIn

      First let me say thank you for trying to explain your point of view -- that's the kind of interaction I'm used to (and frankly what I see in most other posts on the boards here). That's not what I was seeing earlier - but we're past that at the moment and that's awesome.

      If you go back to the very beginning of this thread, I explained this concept of "pick one of 2 options" like 2 or 3 different times (and even more later on in the thread). I don't think I'm out of line expecting people to get the concept at that point. It's not a hard concept.

      Well, ironically, way back early in the thread, you said to me: "Where did you get that Bachelor's degree - the Grace L. Ferguson Airline and Storm Door Company?". In my opinion, that's 100% rude and borderline hateful. I mean there is nothing constructive about it. And I can assure you that you won't make any friends with crap like that. Show me one place anywhere in this thread were I initiated any kind of insult or anything on that level. Yeah, I started to get frustrated with people who were not even trying to understand what I was explaining -- but I didn't do anything close to that.

      Do you see where I'm coming from on this? People latched on to "entrepreneur" and somehow decided that I don't think Internet Marketers are entrepreneurs (which depends entirely on what the IM is doing). And my post had nothing to do with any of that. If I had went along with what everyone else was saying - I would not have gotten the answer to the question I was asking. There's no point in that and that's why I pushed back and tried to get people to understand what I was looking for.

      Just to make clear that I get what you're saying -- I'm 47 years old, have 6 kids (ages 13 to 28(, I've owned 2 businesses and I'm in the process of creating a third right now, and I've been studying business and marketing since 2001. So, I think I get the idea of how the world changes and all of that. I do appreciate what you were trying to say -- but also, through this whole thing you've been trying to make it look like I really just don't get it and I'm out of touch with everyone else, etc. And honestly, I don't think that's really the case. I think people were just being rude and then got mad when I pushed back on that.

      So that's my 2 cents and hopefully we can either come to some sort of consensus or agree to disagree. Either way is cool with me.
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    • By this point, I get that you just wanted to know what you wanted to know, but you are still talking down to people whether you realize it or not. Look at the word choices I made red. If people applied them to you, would you meekly accept or would you push back?

      Again, from my vantage point it looks like the pot calling the kettle black.

      [QUOTE=rbarnhart1;11336133Basically what it seems like your saying is that it's okay for everyone else to be offended by how I presented the information but I'm not allowed to be offended by rude people who would rather create drama than participate in a conversation.

      I haven't participated here on WF for quite awhile - and to be honest, if the forum has devolved to the point that you can't ask a simple question without being run over -- I think I'll just spend my time somewhere else. Because who has time to go through this every time they want to start a conversation.[/QUOTE]

      No one is saying that you have to accept rude behavior from others. But there's a time to accept what is and let it pass. But in this case, I still believe you brought some of this on yourself. It wasn't so much what you asked as how you asked it and how you responded when things didn't go your way.

      As for starting a conversation, wasn't it you that said you weren't looking for a conversation, just a string of one or two word responses to your question? Can't have it both ways these days.

      Actually, I am a bit surprised by the engagement in this thread. Posts like your first one tend to draw long strings of those one or two words responses for the sole purpose of exposing a sig.
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    • @JohnMcCabe

      I get what you're saying completely. But, I had to break it down to that point because no one was getting it. No one was understanding what I was talking about. I said multiple times that there is no judgement intended and there is nothing wrong with being on the Internet Marketing side. But, I had to explain it in some way that would make sense - because no matter what I said -- someone else was posting something completely different than what I was talking about. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do at that point - -should I just give up the thread or what?

      I said this in an earlier post, but I'll repeat it because it's the whole point of why I went down this path. I was asking a question and I obviously prefer to get correct answers rather than wrong answers. If I had just let everyone go with their interpretation they would have not answered correctly. People who were just doing one Internet Marketing thing would have answered Entrepreneur -- when, for my purposes, the answer would be Internet Marketer.

      So, I admit I didn't get that people would be that attached to the idea of being an entrepreneur and would cause an uprising against how I worded it. At the same time -- after I explained what I was looking for -- no one was getting it or they just refused to accept it.

      I don't think it's the pot calling the kettle black because I sort of need to be right if I'm going to get the information I was looking for.

      Anyway - I appreciate you trying to help get this sorted. What bugs me is that rather than just asking me to clarify everyone just made assumptions. And then, based on their assumptions, they started poking me and trying to redefine the question.

      Not sure if that makes sense or not - but that's what's real. Maybe I should have let it go -- I don't know. But I know I certainly didn't deserve to be treated that way.
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    • People know what you are talking about - some don't agree. Some see the definitions/explanations through a different lens and have differing perceptions.

      Your insistence on explaining over and over in the belief others just 'don't understand' is arrogant. Agree to disagree - take your own interpretations and use them for your business.

      When you ask a question and have already decided what answers are 'acceptable' - it will never be a great conversation.
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    • [DELETED]
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    • Get back to work people

      You are at the moment none of the above because you have too much time on your hands.

      Successful Internet marketers don't have time to argue about whats the proper name they should call themselves and Entrepeneurs are too busy to give a flying fig to debate that on a forum.

      Sorry to the Op but this is just another worthless thread. calling yourself an internet marketer or an entrepeneur doesn't put a dime in your pocket.

      Doing a fiverr gig if you have extra time is better (and thats not saying anything good about fiverr gigs).

      #stopthe madness
      #donate excess time to a charity instead
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    • That's 5 minutes you'll never get back

      This thread is entertaining - right up there with 'meaning of life' - 'positivity' - 'the secret' - etc....sort of the business person/true entrepreneur's method of naval gazing.

      If you are successful to the point where you have a decent standard of living and are self supporting....why does it matter what you are 'called'? Those who say 'it's not about the money' - probably aren't earning any....

      In the long term - 'a rose by any other name'.
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    • This is a flawed analogy. Anyone with a map (or a third grade education) should know that you have to go west if you want to get from Iowa to San Francisco. Anyone who protests that San Fran is on the east coast is clearly a fool who can be safely ignored.

      Where you might get into a disagreement is in how people interpret "scenic route" and "access to hotels and restaurants", particularly when the two objectives can be mutually exclusive.

      Even some of the people telling you to head east might be giving you a scenic route if it eventually involves turning back west.

      Last thing, said tongue firmly in cheek, if you have a map, why do you need directions?
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    • Hi rockerjaw. thanks for your participation here.

      I'm officially done with this thread and I'm not responding to any of the people who have derailed this thread and basically want to play games. But, I will take a moment to address what you said and then I'm going to move on from this conversation permanently -- and the only reason I'm posting this is because you seem 100% sincere in what you're posting.

      The challenge that we're having is that we're talking about 2 different things. This concept that you're presenting (and many others have presented as well) exists in the real world and it's subjective. Each person is going to have their own perspective of entrepreneurship and marketing and internet marketing -- etc. So, everyone is going to see this a little differently.

      On the other hand, I'm looking to see how many of two different groups of people exist here on this forum (generally speaking -- because obviously not everyone is going to see this thread and participate). What I'm labeling as Internet Marketer and Entrepreneur only exist for the purposes of this thread - they aren't intended to say "this thing over here must be only an Internet Marketer for ever and always and that thing over there must be an entrepreneur always and forever". It's just a category label.

      Group A is an entry level person who is doing nothing more than doing an internet marketing thing -- maybe they are an affiliate or a blogger or whatever. Maybe they've had some ups and downs but they've learned a thing and now they are making some money at it, but that's all they are doing -- and I called this person an Internet Marketer. Now obviously, a person could be doing something entirely different than what I just described and still be considered an internet marketer. In fact, the second category (Group B) are all Internet Marketers, they are just operating at a much higher level -- and I needed to make a distinction between Group A and Group B. So, I called that group Entrepreneurs.

      I attempted to give some criteria for these two groups so people could look at what they are doing right now and determine if they should choose Group A (Internet Marketer) or Group B (Entrepreneur).

      That's why there is no wiggle room - because I'm not trying to label anyone as an Internet Marketer or an Entrepreneur -- I'm trying to see how many entry level marketers vs how many people who have evolved to the point where they have a real business.

      I have no clue why that infuriated so many people. To me, it's a logical question, posted in the correct forum, and described as simply as I was able. But it is what is and I'm moving on from it. Hopefully I've answered your question. Thanks again for your input.
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    • "Having said that, can we agree that there tons of people who are doing Internet Marketing who are not entrepreneurs"

      No.

      "or business owners"

      Rarely.

      Not the answers you wanted, of course, but correct, just the same.

      We can do this forever. Lock the thread! lol
    • @Internet Trillionaire


      Are you serious right now? Where are you coming up with this crap?

      You're intentionally trying to redefine what this post is about. We are not talking about INTERNATIONAL companies at all. We're talking about PEOPLE WHO PARTICIPATE IN THIS FORUM!!!. ARE YOU ONLY ENGAGED IN INTERNET MARKETING TRANSACTIONS SUCH AS PROMOTING AFFILIATE PRODUCTS OR DO YOU HAVE A FULL BLOWN BUSINESS?

      Not airbnb -- YOU and anyone else on this forum. This is why this thing is so ridiculous. Everyone is reaching so far beyond what this post is about because all you're interested in is trolling and playing games.

      Even if we we're talking about companies like airbnb -- nothing I've said here disqualifies them from being a business, an entrepreneur or an internet marketer. So, I have no clue what you're talking about..

      By the way -- optedin said something about getting this thread closed. I didn't know that was even an option. So, yeah, if there are any administrators around, please close this thread.

      I was planning to have a discussion around the final results of the question I posted and then collaborate on ideas for moving from beginning Internet Marketer to entrepreneur. I even had a couple of articles to share as well as some resources from Jay Abraham. .

      But, that's obviously not going to happen now. So thanks to everyone who participated in derailing this thread. I came here to have a conversation about growing the Internet Marketing profession....and I got this instead.

      @Optedin

      Interesting thing....I asked my thirteen year old son to read my OP and then I gave him some scenarios of people doing various things related to Internet Marketing -- and he figured out what I was talking about right away with no problem and got each one correct. I didn't give him any other details, I didn't explain anything. I just had him read the post and then gave him several scenarios and he nailed each one. So, if he figured it out -- I beg to differ with you and your assessment. Thanks for playing.
    • The entire thread is based on your questfor answers that use only your definition of a couple words. Some excellent and thoughtful replies in this thread.

      When you start a thread - you don't control what others post in it. If you want the thread to become inactive - stop posting in it. With nothing more to argue, others will also leave the thread and it will quickly be 'buried' by new threads.

      Contrary to the info above - moderators do not "shut down" threads (or other members) on demand.
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    • Well that's really unfortunate

      Are you telling me that no one on this forum every conducts a poll? Or are you telling me that when someone conducts a poll here on WF, the participants get to choose the list of possible responses for the poll and what qualifies a response as accurate or appropriate?

      This is a really strange thing, because I've never encountered it anywhere else on the Internet.

      I would love to find out what exactly I did wrong -- because as I pointed out earlier, I had my 13 year old son read the post and with no explanations, he was able to correctly figure out what the correct category should be for several different scenarios. If he gets it -- I'm at a loss as to why everyone here thinks what I posted is not only wrong but somehow a grave insult to marketers. Any suggestions on what I did wrong and what I might do to fix it in the future?
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    • @Mike Anthony

      I appreciate your feedback. And I also appreciate that you were constructive in your approach rather than destructive.

      However, I have to point out that we're not on the same page yet. I'll offer my two cents on each of your points and maybe we can get to some sort of understanding. Because my goal really is to understand this train-wreck of a thread - lol

      Point A -- I didn't change anything about the topic of the post. People didn't understand what I was asking and started making claims about certain things -- my post has always been about one thing - -pick a category that you are in (period). Everything else was me trying to help people understand that this thread is not about what an entrepreneur is or what an internet marketer is -- it's simply about decide which one you are.

      Point B -- If all I was going to do was ask that one question and the only point was to say "congratulations you're an entrepreneur" or "congratulations you're an Internet Marketer", then yeah, that would be kind of pointless.. But, that was not what was going on here. First of all - if I'm curious to know how many people here are beginners and how many have advanced to the point of having a business - how is that useless? If I want to know that information, It can't possibly be useless (especially if there's a point to it). That point could just be market research - which is a perfectly legitimate reason to conduct a poll. But, in this case -- I was going to use the results of this thread to start another thread about how the more advanced marketers here on WF grew into a business and ask them share a bit of their journey (for the benefit of those who are still in the beginning stages). Then I was going to start a third thread where I shared information about what other marketers are doing (such as Jay Abraham and others -- I have a huge archive of articles from top marketers and I wanted to discuss those here in the forum). So to say that my post is useless -- I mean it's the same thing all over -- people making assumptions about what I'm saying, what I'm doing, why I'm doing it, etc. Why can't we just take it at face value and be friendly about it (instead of all the rubbish that happened here)

      Point C -- I didn't start a conversation -- I started a poll and participants do not get to choose the options of the poll nor do they get to decide what a particular option means. It's customary to ask questions of the OP to clarify -- not beat them over the head because you've made all kinds of assumptions about it and you won't accept the explanation you're getting.

      Bonus Point -- yeah, I hear you on that. I had honestly decided not to post anymore. Then I saw someone post an honest response and I wanted to appeal to that person and see if that person would at least get it -- and true to form, everyone came back out to beat me over the head some more.

      I think the thing that bugged me the most is that people were not posting because they wanted to understand what I was saying. At first, they wanted to boost their own ego with their own assumptions -- and if it's done respectfully, I'm fine with that. But, at a certain point, the tone of it changed and suddenly the goal was to just make me look stupid.

      It's really frustrating when I know what I'm talking about and I'm explaining it --- and people are telling me that I don't know what's in my own mind. If I had said: the sky is pink -- at that point we can debate something. If i say: "are you an electrician or a plumber" -- what is there to debate in that? You're either one or the other.

      What people were doing is they were trying to pick apart the labels I had given my two options. In the real world -- of course you can be both an Internet Marketer and an Entrepreneur. In the real world - of course Internet Marketers are capable of being entrepreneurs. In the real world - of course there are different kinds of businesses that overlap categories and you can't fit everyone into a nice little box. Everybody knows that. But for the purposes of this little tiny, unassuming, completely innocent poll, there were only two options and I UNFORTUNATELY called option 1 Internet Marketer and option 2 Entrepreneur. I had no idea that was going to create a backlash of people who were offended that they didn't get to be an entrepreneur in my poll. And then there were the people who absolutely should have picked entrepreneur - but for some reason thought I had restricted them from choosing it when I absolutely hadn't.

      At this point - I'm not sure if any of that matters. I am sure there will still be 10 people who will find something wrong with it.

      Funny thing -- I had been away form WF for quite awhile because I was busy with other stuff. I had an opportunity to jump back in and participate (as I've done successfully for quite a few years). I was excited about getting started with my idea. And now - I'm just like, well what's the point. I guess I'll just move on and go someplace where people will actually talk to me and give an honest answer to a question.
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  • I consider someone an Internet Marketer if the are solely and exclusively making their money online, and have no plans or aspirations to move away from the net.

    An entrepreneur however, I view as someone who is not limited to cyberspace but is actively or looking to run business face to face, brick and mortar, something like that.
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  • Banned
    [DELETED]
  • I'm an entrepreneur.

    I've actually thought about this question quite a bit.

    The term entrepreneur gets thrown around left and right these days. Because it's become this super attractive title.

    Here's my definition of entrepreneurship: A person who persistently seeks opportunities and risks their own time or money to creatively build something greater than themselves.

    Most internet marketers aren't doing that. But some are.
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    • We've alerted Merriam-Webster. They'll be updating their definition in the next edition.
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  • I would like to challenge the question. It's as though the two talents are being looked at through a square. Why package it so tightly? Why no wriggle room? An entrepreneur is a mind set an attitude about how a man choose's to make a living or is born with, while internet marketing is considered tactics to achieve the entrepreneurs goals. E-commerce requires knowledge of both.

    So anybody who endeavours to make a passive living off of the internet is to some degree an entrepreneur as they are demonstrating the mindset of said talent. #Godlovesinternetmarketers
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  • Now I am Internet marketer, next time i will be a Entrepreneur.
  • If we're looking at 'internet marketers' and 'entrepreneurs', where would 'growth hackers' fit in... somewhere between the two?

    I guess a growth hacker would need to have a closer understanding of the product and entrepreneurial vision in order to execute their strategies..
  • We are both. We have business accounts, team, fill Taxes and at the same time We make all money working online.
  • [DELETED]
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