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Youtube Experts - Please explain this if you can...

by freeabs
27 replies
Ok some things about Youtube has always baffled me. Those who teach Youtube marketing always say, if you rank your video on the first page, especially the top few positions for your search term, you will get the views and the traffic ( much like a Google Search ). I am talking about searches with traffic and not those long tail types that get 0 searches per month. However I find this to be highly FALSE.

Many times, someone ranking way below is getting much more views than those that ranked higher. I have seen videos on the 3rd, 4th or 5th positions of Youtube first page for a search term get paltry views compared to some videos that are ranked way below on the first page or even on the second ot theird page and so fort,

My question is this: Does the ranking on Youtube first page correspond with the traffic being distributed for that keyword organically? In Google search, the traffic will be distributed based on the ranking position. Does Youtube work the same way or it doesn't? It if doesn't, then what's the point of ranking on the first page of Yourtube for your search term then. Hope for an enlightenment here. Thanks!
#experts #explain #youtube
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  • Profile picture of the author superowid
    The thing is YT ranking will give you more views (traffic), but YT views don't guarantee you to rank.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
    Originally Posted by freeabs View Post

    Ok some things about Youtube has always baffled me. Those who teach Youtube marketing always say, if you rank your video on the first page, especially the top few positions for your search term, you will get the views and the traffic ( much like a Google Search ). I am talking about searches with traffic and not those long tail types that get 0 searches per month. However I find this to be highly FALSE.

    Many times, someone ranking way below is getting much more views than those that ranked higher. I have seen videos on the 3rd, 4th or 5th positions of Youtube first page for a search term get paltry views compared to some videos that are ranked way below on the first page or even on the second ot theird page and so fort,

    My question is this: Does the ranking on Youtube first page correspond with the traffic being distributed for that keyword organically? In Google search, the traffic will be distributed based on the ranking position. Does Youtube work the same way or it doesn't? It if doesn't, then what's the point of ranking on the first page of Yourtube for your search term then. Hope for an enlightenment here. Thanks!
    Hi freeabs,

    Let me give you an example.

    We have two videos, say. Video A by Joe; Video B by Jack. Video A ranks #1 in Google for a term that receives 500 searches a month. Video Be ranks #1 in Google for the exact same term. You go ahead and look at both videos. Both videos have been up for 1 month exactly. You go ahead and look at both videos and notice Video A has 14 views and Video B has 87,000 views. What gives?

    - Video A doesn't use an enticing title.
    - Video A doesn't use an enticing thumbnail.
    - Video A doesn't use an enticing topic.
    - Video A doesn't use an enticing description.
    - Joe has 8 subscribers.
    - Joe didn't syndicate his Video A.
    - Video A is a lousy powerpoint video.
    - Video A is just - in a word - rubbish.

    Video B? The story is quite different.

    - Enticing Title.
    - Enticing Thumb.
    - Enticing Topic.
    - Enticing Description.
    - Excellent video.
    - Infused with virality (sharable).
    - Highly-engaging.
    - Jack has 40,000 subs.
    - Jack syndicated.
    - Jack has other social platforms (syndication).

    Marketers often say that a #1 listing in Google with a video is better than an organic link listing. Not necessarily true. It depends on the topic. Can it be delivered equally well or better in a video? (The topic of the search.) Does the video GRAB Joe searcher?

    As we also see above, other elements come into play when it comes to views, and I only scratched the surface with those elements (waking up here).

    Should you bother trying to rank videos in Google? Of course. More often than not, you'll rank them quicker than any other form of media, simply because you're inheriting some of YouTube's own ranking juice.

    The trick is to use videos when appropriate and learn what goes into a good video (for the topic and in general) and how to properly conduct YouTube marketing.

    Cheers,

    Tom
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    • Profile picture of the author freeabs
      Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

      Hi freeabs,

      Let me give you an example.

      We have two videos, say. Video A by Joe; Video B by Jack. Video A ranks #1 in Google for a term that receives 500 searches a month. Video Be ranks #1 in Google for the exact same term. You go ahead and look at both videos. Both videos have been up for 1 month exactly. You go ahead and look at both videos and notice Video A has 14 views and Video B has 87,000 views. What gives?

      - Video A doesn't use an enticing title.
      - Video A doesn't use an enticing thumbnail.
      - Video A doesn't use an enticing topic.
      - Video A doesn't use an enticing description.
      - Joe has 8 subscribers.
      - Joe didn't syndicate his Video A.
      - Video A is a lousy powerpoint video.
      - Video A is just - in a word - rubbish.

      Video B? The story is quite different.

      - Enticing Title.
      - Enticing Thumb.
      - Enticing Topic.
      - Enticing Description.
      - Excellent video.
      - Infused with virality (sharable).
      - Highly-engaging.
      - Jack has 40,000 subs.
      - Jack syndicated.
      - Jack has other social platforms (syndication).

      Marketers often say that a #1 listing in Google with a video is better than an organic link listing. Not necessarily true. It depends on the topic. Can it be delivered equally well or better in a video? (The topic of the search.) Does the video GRAB Joe searcher?

      As we also see above, other elements come into play when it comes to views, and I only scratched the surface with those elements (waking up here).

      Should you bother trying to rank videos in Google? Of course. More often than not, you'll rank them quicker than any other form of media, simply because you're inheriting some of YouTube's own ranking juice.

      The trick is to use videos when appropriate and learn what goes into a good video (for the topic and in general) and how to properly conduct YouTube marketing.

      Cheers,

      Tom
      Tom,

      Thks for the lengthy explanation. All things being equal among the videos, great videos, great thimbnails etc... will my videos that is ranked at the top of the YT page get organic views based on the search volume? Because I ain't seeing that on some of my videos despite being better than some of them in terms of ranking and quality. So my question is still this... Will my videos get views solely based on the rankings? If not, then why bother trying to rank?

      On the same note, I have a crappy video ( copied from somewhere ) with ZERO search volume ( according to keyword planner ) but ranked on the first position of Google Search and get a ton of views. It's been there since 2012 and still there.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
        Originally Posted by freeabs View Post

        Tom,

        Thks for the lengthy explanation. All things being equal among the videos, great videos, great thimbnails etc... will my videos that is ranked at the top of the YT page get organic views based on the search volume? Because I ain't seeing that on some of my videos despite being better than some of them in terms of ranking and quality. So my question is still this... Will my videos get views solely based on the rankings? If not, then why bother trying to rank?

        On the same note, I have a crappy video ( copied from somewhere ) with ZERO search volume ( according to keyword planner ) but ranked on the first position of Google Search and get a ton of views. It's been there since 2012 and still there.
        Thanks, mate.

        All things being equal? Between organic links and organic videos? Will your #1 ranked video get views based on the search volume of the keyword? Yes, absolutely. In practice, though, things are never equal. Some search terms are simply no good for videos. It sounds like you make really decent videos - and you obviously know how to rank them - so one thing to consider is keyword choice and whether or not Joe Consumer prefers a website to solve his problem or a video. It could also be 1 tiny variable (or many) that is putting Joe off from clicking that #1 ranked thumbnail. Seriously, the most crazy things play key roles. The wrong word used? Something about the thumb? Something more desirable ranked at #5? There are so many factors. The only way to truly learn them is to learn all about your audience and apply that knowledge to what you know about marketing. That's about as specific as I think I can be with the variables I have to go on in this situation (though I don't blame you for keeping quiet about the variables; it's sensible).

        About the crappy video. Not my business (so tell me to bugger off and mind my own business) but you honestly shouldn't copy videos. Anyway, moving on from that, if the search term in Google has limited monthly searches, then your views are coming from elsewhere (YouTube, socials, shares).

        What I'd suggest (for yourself or anyone) is not to get too hung up about ranking in Google. I taught a mate how to do it and I woke up this morning to him ranking #1 and #4. The first term was dead easy. The second actually really surprises me. It's a hard term and I wouldn't have suggested he bother going after it at this stage (he's a newbie). Point is, it's not all that hard to rank videos for the right terms. But it's not the B all and End all. It's good to use a mixed approach. Aim to rank some videos in Google and YT (and other social internal search engines) but make some videos to get traffic elsewhere, and some videos to benefit from BOTH types of traffic. Keep in mind that YT gets about 25 billion hits a month and FB gets about 36 billion. That says nothing of how many other networks you can use. There is nothing wrong with chasing Google rankings (I wouldn't have wasted my time teaching my mate if that was the case), and some of those rankings only need to deliver really small amounts of traffic to earn you nice money (quality hits, lots of videos you build up over time, too), but I recommend you also explore traffic beyond just Google.

        Cheers,

        Tom
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        • Profile picture of the author freeabs
          Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

          Thanks, mate.

          All things being equal? Between organic links and organic videos? Will your #1 ranked video get views based on the search volume of the keyword? Yes, absolutely. In practice, though, things are never equal. Some search terms are simply no good for videos. It sounds like you make really decent videos - and you obviously know how to rank them - so one thing to consider is keyword choice and whether or not Joe Consumer prefers a website to solve his problem or a video. It could also be 1 tiny variable (or many) that is putting Joe off from clicking that #1 ranked thumbnail. Seriously, the most crazy things play key roles. The wrong word used? Something about the thumb? Something more desirable ranked at #5? There are so many factors. The only way to truly learn them is to learn all about your audience and apply that knowledge to what you know about marketing. That's about as specific as I think I can be with the variables I have to go on in this situation (though I don't blame you for keeping quiet about the variables; it's sensible).

          About the crappy video. Not my business (so tell me to bugger off and mind my own business) but you honestly shouldn't copy videos. Anyway, moving on from that, if the search term in Google has limited monthly searches, then your views are coming from elsewhere (YouTube, socials, shares).

          What I'd suggest (for yourself or anyone) is not to get too hung up about ranking in Google. I taught a mate how to do it and I woke up this morning to him ranking #1 and #4. The first term was dead easy. The second actually really surprises me. It's a hard term and I wouldn't have suggested he bother going after it at this stage (he's a newbie). Point is, it's not all that hard to rank videos for the right terms. But it's not the B all and End all. It's good to use a mixed approach. Aim to rank some videos in Google and YT (and other social internal search engines) but make some videos to get traffic elsewhere, and some videos to benefit from BOTH types of traffic. Keep in mind that YT gets about 25 billion hits a month and FB gets about 36 billion. That says nothing of how many other networks you can use. There is nothing wrong with chasing Google rankings (I wouldn't have wasted my time teaching my mate if that was the case), and some of those rankings only need to deliver really small amounts of traffic to earn you nice money (quality hits, lots of videos you build up over time, too), but I recommend you also explore traffic beyond just Google.

          Cheers,

          Tom
          Regarding the crappy video, it was a test video back in 2012 that I have forgotten about. I did not even know I got a ton of views until recently lol... Anyway, I think ranking in Google has much better organic traffic and views rather than YT itself. Nevertheless thanks for some eye opening info you gave.
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          • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
            Originally Posted by freeabs View Post

            Regarding the crappy video, it was a test video back in 2012 that I have forgotten about. I did not even know I got a ton of views until recently lol... Anyway, I think ranking in Google has much better organic traffic and views rather than YT itself. Nevertheless thanks for some eye opening info you gave.
            Glad to help, mate.

            Cheers,

            Tom
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by freeabs View Post

            Regarding the crappy video, it was a test video back in 2012 that I have forgotten about. I did not even know I got a ton of views until recently lol... Anyway, I think ranking in Google has much better organic traffic and views rather than YT itself. Nevertheless thanks for some eye opening info you gave.
            Ranking videos on YT almost always brings more views than ranking on Google. People using Google aren't necessarily looking for video, while people on YT are.

            Also, search isn't the #1 way of getting views on YT, despite what people say. Instead, being listed as a related video on popular videos sends more views.

            Being listed as a related/suggested video is a combo of relevancy (similar keywords) and viewer retention. You need to make videos people want to watch to be listed, as well as for ranking. YT runs A/B tests where it will show your video thumbnail/link and alternate it with another video.

            YT will then check to see which video has the highest viewer retention and session watch time. The video that has the best retention and session watch time, will be rewarded by YT promoting it.

            Creating great thumbnails that get attention and drive clicks is also important. You need clicks to get views and you need views to get good viewer retention.

            Plus, there's many other ways to get views, such as from channel subscribers, social media, email lists, forums, etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author helisell
    Or even this scenario.

    I have 180,000 subscribers on my list.

    I post a video on youtube and then email my list to
    tell them about the video.

    100,000 go take a look and I get 100,000 views...on a video that may not rank at all in google.
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    • Profile picture of the author Supermeowdel Market
      Originally Posted by helisell View Post

      Or even this scenario.

      I have 180,000 subscribers on my list.

      I post a video on youtube and then email my list to
      tell them about the video.

      100,000 go take a look and I get 100,000 views...on a video that may not rank at all in google.
      Hi Sir, may i know what niche your video is?

      Cheers
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  • Profile picture of the author IGotMine
    100,000 go take a look and I get 100,000 views
    This.

    I have videos that get nearly all their views within my sales funnels.
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  • Profile picture of the author McLeish Craigs
    If you are on YouTube and getting views which means more traffic this should help your ranking.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    PS...If you're ranking for keywords you are sure are getting views on YT but aren't getting any views for your video, change your thumbnails. Once you're getting views, check your YT analytics to see your viewer retention.
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  • Profile picture of the author sreshtaglobal
    Hi there, let me make few things very clear that YouTube Video ranking in SERP and YouTube video views are totally different things.
    When it comes to videos views there are several things that come into play like sharing, promotion, subscriber list, views from references, views from the search engine, etc.
    When it comes to ranking a video, it is a whole different story altogether. Now the same things apply to it which applies to ranking any piece of content through keywords with the help of SEO.
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  • Profile picture of the author anayb
    No body can tell it precisely (or will); people can speculate; it's up to you who should determine what's going on with your video in YouTube SERP. In a broad speculation, it looks like an thumbnail issue.
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it seems you are asking if views are portioned out based on ranking. If so, the answer is, not really.

    More generally, people see studies that say position #1 gets 40% of clicks, #2 gets 20%, etc.

    What they forget is that these numbers are based on millions of searches, with little regard to the nature or intent of those searches.

    Each unique search pulls up a result page. On that page are all the organic listings with slots available, the ads, the 'where to next' options, the search bar itself, the back button, and so on. To get the click, or the view, your listing has to cut through the clutter as the best match for that searcher at that particular point in time.

    For every unique search, something is going to be chosen. Being in position #1 simply buys you a bit more visibility, not a guarantee of any share of the available traffic.
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    • Profile picture of the author freeabs
      Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

      Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it seems you are asking if views are portioned out based on ranking. If so, the answer is, not really.

      More generally, people see studies that say position #1 gets 40% of clicks, #2 gets 20%, etc.

      What they forget is that these numbers are based on millions of searches, with little regard to the nature or intent of those searches.

      Each unique search pulls up a result page. On that page are all the organic listings with slots available, the ads, the 'where to next' options, the search bar itself, the back button, and so on. To get the click, or the view, your listing has to cut through the clutter as the best match for that searcher at that particular point in time.

      For every unique search, something is going to be chosen. Being in position #1 simply buys you a bit more visibility, not a guarantee of any share of the available traffic.
      You read it right... When ranking in Google, the distribution of organic views are there ( if there searches to begin with ), not necessarily in the 40% 20% tyep ratios but there will be definitely some visitors but in Youtube it's not the case as I have experienced. For example, I put up a reasonably good video recently for a keyword with 1000 searches per month. The video is ranked in the 3rd position but I am not getting any views.
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  • Profile picture of the author King Ahmed
    how i can rank on first page of google i never noticed how video can be ranked.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jack Aalders
    Originally Posted by freeabs View Post

    Ok some things about Youtube has always baffled me. Those who teach Youtube marketing always say, if you rank your video on the first page, especially the top few positions for your search term, you will get the views and the traffic ( much like a Google Search ). I am talking about searches with traffic and not those long tail types that get 0 searches per month. However I find this to be highly FALSE.

    Many times, someone ranking way below is getting much more views than those that ranked higher. I have seen videos on the 3rd, 4th or 5th positions of Youtube first page for a search term get paltry views compared to some videos that are ranked way below on the first page or even on the second ot theird page and so fort,

    My question is this: Does the ranking on Youtube first page correspond with the traffic being distributed for that keyword organically? In Google search, the traffic will be distributed based on the ranking position. Does Youtube work the same way or it doesn't? It if doesn't, then what's the point of ranking on the first page of Yourtube for your search term then. Hope for an enlightenment here. Thanks!
    Youtube is weird and no one fully understands how it works. But a videos ranking is based on several factors, not just views. Subscriber counts, Bell notifications, when the video was posted, and if they are seen as important creators to Youtube are important metrics when detriming a videos ranking.
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  • Profile picture of the author radu
    Originally Posted by freeabs View Post


    My question is this: Does the ranking on Youtube first page correspond with the traffic being distributed for that keyword organically? In Google search, the traffic will be distributed based on the ranking position. Does Youtube work the same way or it doesn't? It if doesn't, then what's the point of ranking on the first page of Yourtube for your search term then. Hope for an enlightenment here. Thanks!
    The answer to your question is simple: In Youtube the traffic is not distributed in the same way like in Google because there are more factors that infuence the CTR of a certain link/video...When you search smth in Youtube, do you click always on the first result that appears at the top of the page? Probably not.. You do probably like most of us, you look at the thumbnail (some of them are better optimized than others), look at the title (it may not be relevant or attractive enough), look at the number of views, look at the name of the channel, etc and then you choose one..

    Some channels promote their content outside of Youtube so there is no way you'll be able to compete with them in terms of no of views and engagement unless you do the same...Does this factor influence the rankings? Of course it does...
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Originally Posted by freeabs View Post

    You read it right... When ranking in Google, the distribution of organic views are there ( if there searches to begin with ), not necessarily in the 40% 20% tyep ratios but there will be definitely some visitors but in Youtube it's not the case as I have experienced. For example, I put up a reasonably good video recently for a keyword with 1000 searches per month. The video is ranked in the 3rd position but I am not getting any views.
    If you are visible (and #3 is definitely visible) and you are getting absolutely nothing, then something is amiss in your presentation. People are simply choosing other options. Just because you hold down #3 does not mean you are 'owed' a certain percentage of the available views.

    Look at the things Radu mentioned -- your thumbnail, title and description. They may be pleasing the ranking algo but not human viewers. Test different variations, one at a time. Try to put yourself in the searcher's chair and appeal to what they are trying to accomplish.

    You may resist the idea because a change might affect your ranking. I get that. But if you aren't getting any views, what good is that ranking doing you?
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Originally Posted by radu View Post

    The answer to your question is simple: In Youtube the traffic is not distributed in the same way like in Google because there are more factors that infuence the CTR of a certain link/video...When you search smth in Youtube, do you click always on the first result that appears at the top of the page? Probably not.. You do probably like most of us, you look at the thumbnail (some of them are better optimized than others), look at the title (it may not be relevant or attractive enough), look at the number of views, look at the name of the channel, etc and then you choose one..

    Some channels promote their content outside of Youtube so there is no way you'll be able to compete with them in terms of no of views and engagement unless you do the same...Does this factor influence the rankings? Of course it does...
    Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

    If you are visible (and #3 is definitely visible) and you are getting absolutely nothing, then something is amiss in your presentation. People are simply choosing other options. Just because you hold down #3 does not mean you are 'owed' a certain percentage of the available views.

    Look at the things Radu mentioned -- your thumbnail, title and description.     They may be pleasing the ranking algo but not human viewers. Test different variations, one at a time. Try to put yourself in the searcher's chair and appeal to what they are trying to accomplish.

    You may resist the idea because a change might affect your ranking. I get that. But if you aren't getting any views, what good is that ranking doing you?
    Changing the title may well affect the ranking of the video. I suggest changing the thumbnail, at least a few times a first, which likely won't affect the ranking.

    After trying a couple of thumbnail options, personally I'd move on and instead focus my energy on creating more videos that are interesting, entertaining and/or informative. Not all videos are winners.

    Check out the videos of other channels in the same niche for ideas and see which of their videos:

    Get the most views
    Can be remade quickly and easily while adding something original ("steal" the idea, not the content)
    Are free or cheap to make
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  • Profile picture of the author agmccall
    Also, The video with more views could be ranking highly for a keyword phrase that gets lots of searches. It could be you do not know about this phrase.

    al
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  • Profile picture of the author KH Mahfuz
    Dear,video rank is rely on your video watch time.Your content is Important for watch time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tony Marriott
    OK some things about Youtube has always baffled me. Those who teach Youtube marketing always say, if you rank your video on the first page, especially the top few positions for your search term, you will get the views and the traffic ( much like a Google Search ). I am talking about searches with traffic and not those long tail types that get 0 searches per month. However I find this to be highly FALSE.
    Even Google search will not guarantee you the "distributed" traffic as expected. Those traffic estimates are based on thousands of search examples of which individual pages can vary considerably.


    Probably more true to say "all else being equal" because the titles and snippets of the individual results will have a big effect on whether it gets clicked or not.


    Also in a more modern view of Google search results I would say that the top one or two results probably get an even bigger portion of the traffic as two organic results is likely to be all you see above the fold in many Google searches now. But that's just my thoughts!


    Many times, someone ranking way below is getting much more views than those that ranked higher. I have seen videos on the 3rd, 4th or 5th positions of Youtube first page for a search term get paltry views compared to some videos that are ranked way below on the first page or even on the second ot theird page and so fort,
    This is simply because there are more factors at play here that drive traffic/views.[/quote]


    i.e.
    1. The way results are listed are entirely different. There are no ads in the search results so you see more results.
    2. You have around 25 initial results in a search and more are added dynamically if you scroll down. This means viewing many results is much easier.
    3. Videos have images. Images. The video thumbnail image can have a dramatic effect of the searchers will to click it.
    4. Your search keywords may be are relatively low percentage of organic views. The video may also rank for a major keyword that gives it huge views. i.e. your search is "how to train a puppy dog to sit" (500 views a month..made up numbers!) but it also ranks for "dog Training" (50000 views a month)".
    5. The video may be getting traffic from an email list, YouTube channel subscribers, Twitter/Facebook followers group,a sales page, paid traffic (Yes, Google offer paid traffic to their own videos!) and many other sources.
    6. Don't forget related videos. Related videos can get massive views and not be a number one ranking for a particular keyword.


    My question is this: Does the ranking on YouTube first page correspond with the traffic being distributed for that keyword organically? In Google search, the traffic will be distributed based on the ranking position. Does YouTube work the same way or it doesn't? It if doesn't, then what's the point of ranking on the first page of YouTube for your search term then. Hope for an enlightenment here. Thanks!

    The answer to this is actually yes it probably does "all else being equal".


    But as shown above things are far from equal.


    AND that is only true for the "organic" traffic from that "search query" (keyword). But as you can see above there is no way of accurately measuring that. In fact as far as I know there no tool or database that gives you "number of YouTube searches for a given keyword". Generally people use the Google Keyword planner which is not related to video searches in any way as far I know.


    Note that in Google Keyword Planner you get a number of searches for that Keyword . So estimating the numbers for each search position (for a specific keyword) is at least theoretically possible. But unlike videos the search result (web page) do NOT have the number of views listed. If it did you would have the same issue with web search results.


    The point of ranking on first page in YouTube is to get viewers to view your video. But as shown it may be a lot harder to understand the expected number of views your video might get.


    If you get 50 views a month and the position below you gets 1000- so what?
    It's your numbers that are important. They are the only ones that count.


    On a final note. All ranking (Google/YouTube/Any other) is not an exact science. Sometimes the best keywords just suck, sometimes apparently rubbish keyword will surprise you.


    Your job is to understand what and when you need to be doing more to rank your stuff and is it worth the effort? What to put your time into and what to kick to the kerb.
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