What Do You REALLY Know About Marketing?

by amuro
26 replies
To me, marketing is NOT about selling stuff.

It is about reaching out to people who have needs or wants, connecting with them, understanding them and then recommend -

1. Solutions to their problems or

2. Fulfilment of their desire.

While still being in control without being over-compromising.

Though some of you may disagree, that is the way I see it.

Having done IM for close to 10 years now.
#marketing
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    Hi amuro,

    I vibe with what you are saying my friend.

    From my experience, when I flipped this statement:

    While still being in control without being over-compromising.

    I became more successful, quickly, and learned much more about marketing.

    Why?

    By ceding control, surrendering to the process of build a successful gig and by releasing the concept compromising/deal-making/resistance, and simply by being generous, I largely released the fear of missing a sale and made more sales.

    I went from me versus client or customer to me having the upper hand to me generously helping folks and expecting nothing out of them, then I really began to align with awesome folks who helped grow my business on many levels.

    The sales happen much more quickly when I decided to blog with love, for fun, to help folks and by expecting nothing out of any interaction.

    Ryan
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Originally Posted by amuro View Post

    To me, marketing is NOT about selling stuff.

    It is about reaching out to people who have needs or wants, connecting with them, understanding them and then recommend -

    1. Solutions to their problems or

    2. Fulfilment of their desire.

    While still being in control without being over-compromising.

    Though some of you may disagree, that is the way I see it.

    Having done IM for close to 10 years now.
    Selling is a part of the marketing process. Marketing also includes things like product research and development, marketing/promotion, production, efficiency, customer service, legal and political issues, and more.
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    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Selling is a part of the marketing process.
      Did you mean, "Marketing is part of the selling process?"
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

        Did you mean, "Marketing is part of the selling process?"
        No. I meant what I said. The marketing process is the entire process of bringing a product to market, which includes sales and other elements. This was taught to me by the former #2 guy at R and R Marketing, the marketing agency that's held the contract for promoting the city of Las Vegas for years and the ones that came up with "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas".


        Like I said above, bringing a product to market involves more than selling.
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        • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          No. I meant what I said. The marketing process is the entire process of bringing a product to market, which includes sales and other elements. This was taught to me by the former #2 guy at R and R Marketing, the marketing agency that's held the contract for promoting the city of Las Vegas for years and the ones that came up with "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas".

          Like I said above, bringing a product to market involves more than selling.
          We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Maybe I'm too stupid to see the big picture, but that makes no sense to me, at all. :-)

          In my world, selling is not 'part' of marketing. It's the goal and end result of marketing.

          Am I alone in this??? lol
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

            We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Maybe I'm too stupid to see the big picture, but that makes no sense to me, at all. :-)

            In my world, selling is not 'part' of marketing. It's the goal and end result of marketing.

            Am I alone in this??? lol
            What is the term for the entire process for bringing a product/service to market if it isn't marketing?

            Once you sell a product, how do you deliver it? Is it downloadable? A fulfillment company such as Amazon? A retail store where the buyer takes possession directly?

            How do you find something to sell? Do you make it yourself? Buy it wholesale? Can you make this more efficient?

            If you have a grocery store and want to sell milk, what temperature does the law say the milk must be kept at?

            This are all part of the process of bringing a product to market that are not part of the sales process.
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            • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              What is the term for the entire process for bringing a product/service to market if it isn't marketing?
              No problem with that. Still, 'sales' is not part of marketing, whether micro or macro. That's why they have two different words to define them.

              Once you sell a product, how do you deliver it? Is it downloadable? A fulfillment company such as Amazon? A retail store where the buyer takes possession directly?
              That's not marketing. That's fulfillment and delivery. Sheesh!

              How do you find something to sell? Do you make it yourself? Buy it wholesale? Can you make this more efficient?
              Still nothing to do with the actual sale. That's product conception, acquisition and logistics, research and development. No marketing, there.

              If you have a grocery store and want to sell milk, what temperature does the law say the milk must be kept at?
              That's called adhering to County health codes.

              This are all part of the process of bringing a product to market that are not part of the sales process.
              None of those are marketing. They are what I have called them. Please don't argue just to be argumentative. It's not attractive. If you want to write it off to semantics, that's fine, but it doesn't alter what I am talking about.

              Marketing is used to maximize sales. Everything you mentioned are in the pre-marketing phase of a business. Yes, you need to create a product before you can sell it, but that's not marketing. A part of 'bringing it to market,' of course, but it's NOT marketing in the generally accepted understanding of the term in business. That's a fact that simply can't be debated. Sorry.
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      • Profile picture of the author amuro
        To give you a better understanding, Facebook Ads and Pinterest are best examples.

        You create an ad and board of images.

        Then target and connect with people who shared your interests and whom you know like and eventually buy what you put up.

        Same for Instagram.

        But because I don't use Instagram regularly, I can't comment on that.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    The ultimate goal is a conversion regardless how you twist the subject.
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  • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
    Forget all of the mumbo-jumbo. Selling is the end result of marketing. Period!

    If you don't start from that basic premise, it doesn't matter what you think you know about marketing.
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  • Profile picture of the author IGotMine
    Originally Posted by amuro View Post

    To me, marketing is NOT about selling stuff.

    It is about reaching out to people who have needs or wants, connecting with them, understanding them and then recommend -

    1. Solutions to their problems or

    2. Fulfilment of their desire.

    While still being in control without being over-compromising.

    Though some of you may disagree, that is the way I see it.

    Having done IM for close to 10 years now.
    This is what people say when they are trying to sell something while trying to convince the target buyer they are not.
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  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    Originally Posted by amuro View Post

    To me, marketing is NOT about selling stuff.

    It is about reaching out to people who have needs or wants, connecting with them, understanding them and then recommend -

    1. Solutions to their problems or

    2. Fulfilment of their desire.

    While still being in control without being over-compromising.

    Though some of you may disagree, that is the way I see it.

    Having done IM for close to 10 years now.
    Have been selling online for 30 years, on the www since day one, done ok.

    When anyone starts out their premise; "TO ME", I do know I'm about to read some OPINION, and get a sales pitch.

    Wasn't disappointed. Thanks for the reinforced knowledge.

    I do agree with others, about the facets; research, development fulfillment, etc., and about it being about SALES. Marketing is NOT about pushing people away from you, but it is about getting their attention and making it worth their while to hold it, for when it might be needed (as in branding).

    Give first and Get second, is the oldest marketing Mantra in the world, isn't it some sort of "Golden Rule"?

    Con men are known not to care about taking people's money, marketers? Well not for very long.

    VALUE EXCHANGE. If what you offer has fair value (to your target), not much marketing need apply, other than getting on their track and letting them run you over.

    ALSO, as for selling/marketing...find a group of hungry monkeys, place low hanging bananas in their domain, watch the feeding frenzy.

    GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve B
    Originally Posted by amuro View Post

    To me, marketing is NOT about selling stuff.

    Spin it how you want to . . . but if you're not selling, what's the point of doing marketing?
    • You want to promote products and services because you have nothing better to do?
    • You like being busy and marketing affords you that opportunity?
    • You have a huge ego and you want to be a self-appointed authority?
    • You get your jollies from gathering an audience of subscribers?
    No, no, no, no.


    Marketing is all about selling.


    Certainly there are a lot of steps and activities that must be done that don't, of themselves, make a sale. But they are all necessary and integral parts of the system leading up to a sale.


    If marketing isn't about selling . . . can you honestly tell me that you would continue to study and work at marketing if you knew you would never make a dollar from it?


    I know you like to say things that are controversial and go against the grain to get a response . . . but in so doing, you make serious marketers just shake their heads and discount everything you say.


    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Nothing happens until someone makes a sale. Here's an excerpt from Zig Ziglar's Secrets of Closing the Sale...
    I'd like to trace what happens when you make a sale. To start the process, you write the order or agreement on a piece of paper. That piece of paper started out as a tree, not a piece of paper. Somebody had to go out in the woods and cut the tree down. You are the person who paid those people to go into the woods and cut the tree down when you got out there and made that sale.

    Many people were involved in hauling that tree to the paper mill. You're the person who paid those people to haul that tree to the paper mill when you got out there and made that sale. In the paper mill there are hundreds of people involved in manufacturing that tree into paper. You're the person who paid those people to manufacture that tree into paper when you got out there and made that sale, but it goes much further than that.

    You take part of your profits, go to the grocery store, and buy a can of beans. The groceryman in essence says, "If you're going to buy my beans, I've got to get some more," so he calls the wholesaler and buys more beans. The wholesaler keeps the ball rolling by saying, "If you're going to buy my beans, I have to get some more," so he goes to the cannery and buys more beans. The cannery goes to the farmer and buys more beans. This depetes the farmer's supplies, which means he's got to raise more beans. The farmer has a problem, because he's worn out his tractor raising beans. Down to the tractor dealer he goes to buy that new tractor. Since the dealer only has one tractor, he has to go to the tractor factory to get more tractors.

    When the dealer placed his order for more tractors, the tractor factory manager said, "If you're going to buy more tractors, we will have to manufacture more tractors, we have to bring in iron, copper, plastic, steel, aluminum, zinc, lead, spark plugs and rubber tires. We will also have to let out one hundred subcontracts for the parts we don't manufacture ourselves." All of those events, all those sales, and all those jobs were created because one day you, my selling friend, went out and made a sale!
    Amuro, I get your point about fulfilling customer needs and desires as opposed to trying to manipulate people into something they don't want, but until someone sells something, nothing happens.
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  • Gotta figure when Mama Bird flies off lookin' for WOIMS to drop in BABY BIRD MAWS, sumtimes she might be tempted by

    **MAX CHEESE PIZZA**

    cos that shit got alla the flavor, alla the yummy -- an' like the guy in the ad says, simply purchase 2 through April and you could win a vacation in Vegas.

    Problem is, baby birds ain't happy with too much max cheese pizza.

    Feed 'em that crap, they choke to death -- meanin' upsell Vegas is kinda noplace.

    That is why Mama Bird picks up WOIMS.

    Ain't exotic, but also ain't stoopid.




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  • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
    I think this covers it nicely while totally coinciding with how I have always viewed the process and relationship between sales and marketing. Bold is mine.

    Cheers.

    Sales
    Sales refers to the short term need to close a sale, get an agreement signed, or ultimately do what needs to be done to sell whatever it is you are selling. Sales techniques and strategies are really based on what it takes to 'close the deal', which is crucial to any business. If you get customers in the door but cannot get them to buy a product, there is a problem with your sales strategy. Sales strategies are focused on the individual buyer and what needs to be done for them to pull out their wallet, or click on the buy button when it comes to online selling. Companies typically set sales volume targets for a period (weeks, months, and quarters) and have strategies in place where the individuals responsible for actually selling can make those targets.

    Marketing
    Marketing is a longer term concept than sales and relates to forward looking strategies to understand customer needs, influence customer perceptions, and identify how a company can capitalize on that. The end result of the marketing process, and what it directly supports, is making sales easier. Marketing techniques and strategies are really based on what it takes to identify the right product mix, the prices for those products, and what needs to be communicated to target customers (via advertisement) in order to ensure successful sales. One of the key aspects of marketing strategies is building a brand identity for what a company is selling and this varies from company to company. McDonalds obviously brands their food and advertising far differently than a luxury steakhouse would do. While sales is really the 'push' to buy the product once the customer is there, marketing is the 'pull' that gets the customer to you in the first place. When marketing is done effectively it can also make sales a far easier job for a company, as the customer can already be convinced and ready to buy by the time they actually enter your store (or website). Sales can still succeed without very effective marketing but it certainly makes the job more difficult.

    Cource: businessdictionary.com
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

      I think this covers it nicely while totally coinciding with how I have always viewed the process and relationship between sales and marketing. Bold is mine.

      Cheers.

      Sales
      Sales refers to the short term need to close a sale, get an agreement signed, or ultimately do what needs to be done to sell whatever it is you are selling. Sales techniques and strategies are really based on what it takes to 'close the deal', which is crucial to any business. If you get customers in the door but cannot get them to buy a product, there is a problem with your sales strategy. Sales strategies are focused on the individual buyer and what needs to be done for them to pull out their wallet, or click on the buy button when it comes to online selling. Companies typically set sales volume targets for a period (weeks, months, and quarters) and have strategies in place where the individuals responsible for actually selling can make those targets.

      Marketing
      Marketing is a longer term concept than sales and relates to forward looking strategies to understand customer needs, influence customer perceptions, and identify how a company can capitalize on that. The end result of the marketing process, and what it directly supports, is making sales easier. Marketing techniques and strategies are really based on what it takes to identify the right product mix, the prices for those products, and what needs to be communicated to target customers (via advertisement) in order to ensure successful sales. One of the key aspects of marketing strategies is building a brand identity for what a company is selling and this varies from company to company. McDonalds obviously brands their food and advertising far differently than a luxury steakhouse would do. While sales is really the 'push' to buy the product once the customer is there, marketing is the 'pull' that gets the customer to you in the first place. When marketing is done effectively it can also make sales a far easier job for a company, as the customer can already be convinced and ready to buy by the time they actually enter your store (or website). Sales can still succeed without very effective marketing but it certainly makes the job more difficult.

      Cource: businessdictionary.com
      Marketing (promotion, branding, positioning, etc) is a subset of the marketing process. You are using the micro definition of marketing, whereas I used the macro definition. The macro definition of marketing is the entire process of bringing a product or service to market. Your definition is not wrong, we're simply talking about different definitions of marketing that are both correct.
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  • Profile picture of the author romanepo
    Marketing and Branding are selling process.For successful selling process required successful marketing and branding.
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  • To me, internet marketing is about identifying a problem and being creative while trying to solve it. In this instance, the problem will lead you to a target market where their needs are identified and then a relationship is forged with the intent on solving their problems.

    Scott.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tony S
    Hi Warriors, This is what I think after being marketing online for many years. The thing is getting the basic principle without complication, by keeping it simple as the process of providing a product or service where in need or demand. The marketing principle is getting a product or service that is in demand in front of the people or market that demands it. Dose that make sense? Stated simply, marketing is the means and methods of getting the supply and knowledge of products or services in demand in front of the audience who wants them then converting them into satisfied clients/customers.

    Keep this in mind, all marketing will not end up in a purchase of goods or service but can be a trade for an equivalent product or service as in the case of a barter. Trading one product for another or say a product for a service and visa versa. Regardless of the kind of conversion a form of marketing is always required to begin the transaction.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Nice post: Thanks amuro.

    As the late great Marketer/Copywriter Gary Halbert said: "Become a student of markets -- not a student of marketing." The more you understand a market, the more you can serve them and meet all their needs and desires (etc.).

    2C
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  • Profile picture of the author amuro
    The point I am trying to make is very simple.

    In case some of you still wondered why, how, what etc.

    Focus On Giving Value First,
    Then Recommend

    Sure I can be creative like Apple iPhones but then there is only a 50-50 percent chance of succeeding.

    The products may be good and unique but if marketing is poor, no one will buy since no one really understand how they work.

    Unless the competitors step in and up their marketing strategy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Judey
    Successful marketing all comes down to ''sending the right message to the right audience''.

    If you are selling a muscle building product to an 87 yrs old woman, your marketing campaign will FAIL, because you're reaching out to the wrong audience.

    It's not just about having product that solves a problem and start advertising it to people .

    Are you reaching the RIGHT audience for the product/service you're offering ?

    If not

    Then fix it.

    And you'll see great results.
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    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by Judey View Post

      Successful marketing all comes down to ''sending the right message to the right audience''.
      Not quite. What you have stated is a small part of the many varied aspects of marketing. If you concentrate on that and that alone, you are still looking to fail.

      Cheers.
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      "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

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    • Profile picture of the author quadagon
      Originally Posted by Judey View Post

      Successful marketing all comes down to ''sending the right message to the right audience''.
      You need to add to that list:

      at the right time

      through the right medium

      i call it the four M's.

      Message, Market, Medium and Moment
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      I've got 99 problems but a niche ain't one
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  • Profile picture of the author kate50
    Marketing is not just about selling stuff. It is about reaching out to people and ask them what they really want and connect with them. You need to understand the people before selling anything to them.
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