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*Find* Versus *Earn* and Why IMers Need to See the Difference

by ryanbiddulph
16 replies
If you are struggling in IM you may need to own clinging to a common misconception.

Many entrepreneurs believe they will *find* traffic, or prospects, or clients or money, as if it is as simple and easy as turning over a rock to find sugary sweetness. Note how many Warriors phrase the question: often using the word "find."

If you want to lay the foundation for seeing sweet IM success guys, lose the "find" and replace with "earn". By patiently practicing, you develop skills. Developing skills allows you to earn the right to make money, to attract prospects, to connect with clients, to drive more traffic and to see some sugary sweet online success.

My biggest wake up call was accepting the idea that I had to practice persistently to develop real, tangible skills that solved problems and benefited human beings. But when I made the shift from searching for success to earning success I felt much better and laid the foundation for where I am today. Online-wise and time zone wise too

Food for thought if you are having a tough time in "finding" mode.
#difference #earn #find #imers #versus
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  • Profile picture of the author 1Bryan
    Meh, I'd rather find an audience and then market what they already are proven to buy.

    If you place the right offer in front of the right people, that alone "earns" you the sale.

    Sales is not some mystical woo woo subject.
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    • Profile picture of the author IGotMine
      Originally Posted by 1Bryan View Post


      Sales is not some mystical woo woo subject.
      The OP doesn't do anything but spout mystical mumbo-jumbo and post wildly inaccurate information.

      Best avoided unless you need a chuckle.
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      • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
        Originally Posted by IGotMine View Post

        The OP doesn't do anything but spout mystical mumbo-jumbo and post wildly inaccurate information.
        Ad nauseam. I have never before wished that there was a limit on how many times per day someone should be allowed to post. Can't resist posting the same blather to every new thread. You'd think he would be busy bogging. :-)

        Best avoided unless you need a chuckle.
        Yes - you will laugh, but for all the wrong reasons.

        Cheers.
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        "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

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        • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
          I already wrote my 10 guest posts for the day
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      Oh, yeah? But are you struggling?


      No. And that, my friend, is where you're losing. Because, you see, struggle builds character and character... Well, it does something that gets you sales.


      I think the OP is trying to suggest that chasing shiny objects instead of building a foundation is not the way to go. With which I agree.


      However, I'd rather be lucky than work hard. I'd rather find a hungry crowd than create or earn one.



      And I'd rather see fewer posts about aligning my spirit and thinking with the reciprcal-giving arm of the Universe.


      Originally Posted by 1Bryan View Post

      Meh, I'd rather find an audience and then market what they already are proven to buy.

      If you place the right offer in front of the right people, that alone "earns" you the sale.

      Sales is not some mystical woo woo subject.
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    If I can make people laugh, then my job is well done LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author cearionmarie
    Well this was an interesting read indeed but I feel it is lacking somehow? I would have to agree with 1Bryan as it's what I feel is most practical.
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  • Profile picture of the author offmarketinvestor
    Originally Posted by ryanbiddulph View Post

    If you are struggling in IM you may need to own clinging to a common misconception.

    Many entrepreneurs believe they will *find* traffic, or prospects, or clients or money, as if it is as simple and easy as turning over a rock to find sugary sweetness. Note how many Warriors phrase the question: often using the word "find."

    If you want to lay the foundation for seeing sweet IM success guys, lose the "find" and replace with "earn". By patiently practicing, you develop skills. Developing skills allows you to earn the right to make money, to attract prospects, to connect with clients, to drive more traffic and to see some sugary sweet online success.

    My biggest wake up call was accepting the idea that I had to practice persistently to develop real, tangible skills that solved problems and benefited human beings. But when I made the shift from searching for success to earning success I felt much better and laid the foundation for where I am today. Online-wise and time zone wise too

    Food for thought if you are having a tough time in "finding" mode.
    You should have said "In my Honest Opinion"

    This is your belief....

    What was the purpose of posting this?
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve B
    To all you critics ...


    Ryan has a large following and is making money. Can you say the same about your business?


    He has found his path that works for him. It may not work for you and that's fine.


    Originally Posted by ryanbiddulph View Post

    My biggest wake up call was accepting the idea that I had to practice persistently to develop real, tangible skills that solved problems and benefited human beings. But when I made the shift from searching for success to earning success I felt much better and laid the foundation for where I am today.

    This is sound and solid advice for anyone! Some search for niches and audiences - and some find them online. Either way, developing your skills at problem solving will pay you dividends in your business - whatever it is!


    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

      It may not work for you and that's fine.
      Steve - the problem is, that as you say, Ryan has found a stytem that he claims has made him successful.

      That may be, you'll forgive my skepticism. If it is true, it's based on a core premise that I don't believe will work for 99% of the people that come here looking to learn ways to actually make money.

      Ryan's concept is simple to boil down.

      1. Never think about making money as your motivating factor.

      2. Give, give give 'til it hurts.

      3. All of that giving will result in money landing in your lap, with virtually no other effort required.

      I'm sure that Ryan is a very nice guy and wouldn't intentionally hurt a fly. That said, he's not helping anyone with his incessant, mind-numbing,, pseudo-new-age, mumbo jumbo that half the time is just more word salad.

      If you can decipher the following, for me: "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy," I will buy you lunch. And dinner. And both lunch and dinner, tomorrow. OK, yes - I was selective in my choice of words resulting in befuddlement, but I can give you lots of examples.

      My advice may be harsh, but people can understand every word without needing a mystic to translate it for them.

      You want to defend him because you think he's being picked on, or trolled? Well, that's fine. Pointing out someone's modus operandi is NOT trolling them. It's not attacking them, either.

      Newbies coming here looking for help read this stuff and scratch their heads wondering what the hell all of this means. Dozens and dozens of posts, each more confusing than the last, but basically saying this.

      1. The way you are approaching it is all wrong.

      2. My way is the true path to success.

      3. If you don't do it my way - you are destined to wallow in abject failure.

      4. Stop trying to make money. Then you will make money. Easily!

      It's called subtext. You can defend it and him, if you choose to, but his secret to success won't transfer to the average person looking to make a buck. That's just the truth. You make money by working - hard, consistently and intelligently - for money. Otherwise, become a Franciscan monk.

      Yes - Ryan is a nice guy and I'm a little S.O.B. That may be, but I guarantee you that I can teach people how to make money and more of it, in a shorter amount of time, than following Ryan's 'Secrets to Success." I guarantee it.

      I don't believe he's helping anyone. I could be wrong - but I've been alive a long time and have seen it all. What he preaches sounds so uplifting and spiritual. Maybe it is, but it won't produce regular income, in the short term, which is what people are looking for and which actually can be accomplished.

      That's my 2¢.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve B
        Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

        he's not helping anyone with his incessant, mind-numbing,, pseudo-new-age, mumbo jumbo that half the time is just more word salad.



        OptedIn,


        Thanks for your further detail and assessment of Ryan's approach. Obviously, his way of doing business is very different from yours. I am not being critical or defending anyone's approach or persona in their online business (his or yours). If you find something that works well for you, and you're happy with it, that's what's important, right? If it somehow makes you money, that's what you're shooting for.



        I believe there are enough marketers online with very different temperaments and persuasions and that it's beneficial to see the various successful ways to attack a marketplace - both as Ryan does it and as you do it. There are a thousand ways to "skin a cat." Find one that works for you - you have to - because surely it won't work for everyone.


        If you don't resonate with "pseudo-new-age, mumbo jumbo" then don't use it - find something else that you can adopt.


        There were several great points that Ryan made in his original post and those are the things that I think will be helpful to other marketers:
        1. "If you are struggling in IM you may need to own clinging to a common misconception." I agree. It is wisdom to challenge your own thinking about IM principles and strategies if you can't make money doing it.
        2. "If you want to lay the foundation for seeing sweet IM success guys, lose the 'find' and replace with 'earn'." My own thinking is this: if you can find places where targeted prospects can be found in large groups - so much the better. If you have to go after them one at a time, you do that too. Regardless of how you "find" or "earn" prospects, you still have to get their attention, get your message in front of them (probably multiple times), get them trusting you, and convert them to buyers. I'd say that's "earning" sales regardless of whether you "find" prospects in groups or attract them individually.
        3. "By patiently practicing, you develop skills. Developing skills allows you to earn the right to make money, to attract prospects, to connect with clients, to drive more traffic." Learning IM is not easy for most people. I personally believe, as I'm assuming Ryan does, that the more IM skills you can develop (with practice and over time), the better a marketer you will become. Running a business, running ads, developing products, giving customer care ... those are all skills that can be learned with practice and experience.
        Ryan finished by saying his post was simply "Food for thought if you are having a tough time ..." He was expressing an opinion and sharing his own MO. I see nothing wrong with that. I think newbie marketers will understand that his approach may not work for them.



        Is he saying that his way is the only way to be successful? I didn't read that into his post. Obviously, some will find his personality and approach not to their liking. That's fine.


        Once you know and understand what Ryan is about ... just move to the next thread if you don't care for his style. Or you can look for the nuggets in his posts and adapt them to your own style.


        OptedIn, thanks for your contrasting view and explanation. If reinforces to me the fact that online there is room for everyone and you pick and choose who you want to listen to ... isn't that how it's always been?


        Have a good day,


        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
          Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

          OptedIn,
          Mornin'.

          Thanks for your further detail and assessment of Ryan's approach. Obviously, his way of doing business is very different from yours. I am not being critical or defending anyone's approach or persona in their online business (his or yours). If you find something that works well for you, and you're happy with it, that's what's important, right? If it somehow makes you money, that's what you're shooting for.
          Of course, but no is going to make a dime following what Ryan tells folks to do, which was clearly outlined in my previous post. Giving' 'til it hurts is NOT a business model. It's what charities do.

          I believe there are enough marketers online with very different temperaments and persuasions and that it's beneficial to see the various successful ways to attack a marketplace - both as Ryan does it and as you do it. There are a thousand ways to "skin a cat." Find one that works for you - you have to - because surely it won't work for everyone.
          There are basic marketing, sales, advertising and promotional aspects that form the backbone of the majority of the different types of business that exists, all with varying modifications, of course, based on the product or service.

          If you don't resonate with "pseudo-new-age, mumbo jumbo" then don't use it - find something else that you can adopt.
          I have - and I would recommend that others do the same unless they want to live in their parent's basement for the rest of their lives.

          There were several great points that Ryan made in his original post and those are the things that I think will be helpful to other marketers:

          "If you are struggling in IM you may need to own clinging to a common misconception." I agree. It is wisdom to challenge your own thinking about IM principles and strategies if you can't make money doing it.
          No argument from me, there!

          "If you want to lay the foundation for seeing sweet IM success guys, lose the 'find' and replace with 'earn'." My own thinking is this: if you can find places where targeted prospects can be found in large groups - so much the better. If you have to go after them one at a time, you do that too. Regardless of how you "find" or "earn" prospects, you still have to get their attention, get your message in front of them (probably multiple times), get them trusting you, and convert them to buyers. I'd say that's "earning" sales regardless of whether you "find" prospects in groups or attract them individually.
          Like I said - basic marketing and sales techniques. No golden nuggets, here.

          "By patiently practicing, you develop skills. Developing skills allows you to earn the right to make money, to attract prospects, to connect with clients, to drive more traffic." Learning IM is not easy for most people. I personally believe, as I'm assuming Ryan does, that the more IM skills you can develop (with practice and over time), the better a marketer you will become. Running a business, running ads, developing products, giving customer care ... those are all skills that can be learned with practice and experience.
          Again, who doesn't know these things? If you've been at this game for more than a week you know this, already - or you haven't been paying attention and wound-up on this forum after a very long nap.

          Ryan finished by saying his post was simply "Food for thought if you are having a tough time ..." He was expressing an opinion and sharing his own MO. I see nothing wrong with that. I think newbie marketers will understand that his approach may not work for them.
          Not the way in which he presents it, which was also clearly defined in my previous post, which you also failed to respond to in relation to the precise points that I laid out. I understand that, as they are simply impossible to defend. The are beyond, 'pie-in-the-sky.'

          Is he saying that his way is the only way to be successful?
          Pretty, much! lol

          I didn't read that into his post.
          You picked one post. I'm referring to his body of work, for lack of a better term.

          Obviously, some will find his personality and approach not to their liking. That's fine.
          I'm not concerned with his approach or personality as it pertains to me, personally. I enjoy the bouts of laughter. I'm concerned with his ruinous effect on newbies that may read his words and think to themselves, "Well, that sounds easy enough. I think I'll follow that plan." You don't think that they should not be forewarned that their mileage may vary and probably will? Really?

          Once you know and understand what Ryan is about ... just move to the next thread if you don't care for his style. Or you can look for the nuggets in his posts and adapt them to your own style.
          That's going to be committed and lengthly mining operation, resulting in dust, perhaps. I wouldn't count on too many nuggets. I suggest you take some time to read more of his posts and then let me know if you disagree. There are many dozens of then, basically identical in their proposition which borders on dogma.

          OptedIn, thanks for your contrasting view and explanation. If reinforces to me the fact that online there is room for everyone and you pick and choose who you want to listen to ... isn't that how it's always been?
          Of course. But I come back to my initial point. People actually believe that there are secrets to making easy money in IM, without having to do any work, if they can just discover that secret. That's what Ryan's posts reinforce, as a whole. I just think in fairness and honesty people need a heads-up before falling for what he puts out. It's not real. It just sounds good.


          Have a good day,
          And, you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
      Banned
      Well said Steve: Ryan is a true "Doer" and has a lot of important insights to share.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

    Steve - the problem is, that as you say, Ryan has found a stytem that he claims has made him successful.

    That may be, you'll forgive my skepticism. If it is true, it's based on a core premise that I don't believe will work for 99% of the people that come here looking to learn ways to actually make money.

    Ryan's concept is simple to boil down.

    1. Never think about making money as your motivating factor.

    2. Give, give give 'til it hurts.

    3. All of that giving will result in money landing in your lap, with virtually no other effort required.

    I'm sure that Ryan is a very nice guy and wouldn't intentionally hurt a fly. That said, he's not helping anyone with his incessant, mind-numbing,, pseudo-new-age, mumbo jumbo that half the time is just more word salad.

    If you can decipher the following, for me: "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy," I will buy you lunch. And dinner. And both lunch and dinner, tomorrow. OK, yes - I was selective in my choice of words resulting in befuddlement, but I can give you lots of examples.

    My advice may be harsh, but people can understand every word without needing a mystic to translate it for them.

    You want to defend him because you think he's being picked on, or trolled? Well, that's fine. Pointing out someone's modus operandi is NOT trolling them. It's not attacking them, either.

    Newbies coming here looking for help read this stuff and scratch their heads wondering what the hell all of this means. Dozens and dozens of posts, each more confusing than the last, but basically saying this.

    1. The way you are approaching it is all wrong.

    2. My way is the true path to success.

    3. If you don't do it my way - you are destined to wallow in abject failure.

    4. Stop trying to make money. Then you will make money. Easily!

    It's called subtext. You can defend it and him, if you choose to, but his secret to success won't transfer to the average person looking to make a buck. That's just the truth. You make money by working - hard, consistently and intelligently - for money. Otherwise, become a Franciscan monk.

    Yes - Ryan is a nice guy and I'm a little S.O.B. That may be, but I guarantee you that I can teach people how to make money and more of it, in a shorter amount of time, than following Ryan's 'Secrets to Success." I guarantee it.

    I don't believe he's helping anyone. I could be wrong - but I've been alive a long time and have seen it all. What he preaches sounds so uplifting and spiritual. Maybe it is, but it won't produce regular income, in the short term, which is what people are looking for and which actually can be accomplished.

    That's my 2¢.
    I would like to double your 2¢.

    What's worse is he often gives the same advice to brick and mortar businesses looking for help in generating traffic.

    The silly reaching out to bloggers and build friendships advice is not going to work for a dentist getting their teeth kicked in by their competitors, not to mention a dentist has an actual business to run. They don't have time to surf around online all day and find circle-jerk groups of bloggers to join.
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  • Profile picture of the author UnkwnUsr
    Ryan's advice is good for those that have a passion or hobby that they can build an audience around. Even so building an audience and networking is also work and I don't believe anyone would do all that without the end game of monetization in the back of their mind. If that isn't your mindset, then that's fine as well. There are many ways to make money online, we are all going to promote our own way when we post on WF. No reason to demonize the guy for it, what you are seeing is his brand. I think it's one a lot of people will like and buy into.
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    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by UnkwnUsr View Post

      I think it's one a lot of people will like and buy into.
      And go broke with. You said it, yourself. It's about making money. If that isn't your midset, do IM as a hobby and get a job.

      "Man does not live by blogging, alone" - regardless of what some would have us believe.
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