Paypal froze my account today

97 replies
If you are trying to buy my WSO's please hold off. Paypal has decided to arbitrarily freeze my account. I got an email about selling "ponzi schemes" which I don't do.

I am switching to a secondary processor now.

I called them and they promised to look into things and get back to me in 24-48 hours.

In the mean time I can't accept payments or withdraw funds.

I have been with paypal since the year they opened. One of their biz dev managers coaxed me into joining and now this, left in the cold.

A warning to those who rely on paypal.
#account #froze #paypal #today
  • Profile picture of the author David Wolfman
    Thanks for warning, I was just about to do that myself.

    Has that happened to anyone else?

    Keep us informed about the outcome, please.
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    • Profile picture of the author Clearview
      Banned
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author Brad Gosse
        Originally Posted by Clearview View Post

        Maybe something set off a flag? Their next step is to investigate, which is what they are doing. I, for one, am glad that Paypal takes steps like this to ensure that they run a tight ship and people can't be scammed as easily.

        Safeguards like this are a good thing. It's not necessarily a case of "big, bad Paypal" being "big, bad Paypal".

        It just sucks, if what you said is true, that it happened to be you that was affected this time. Hope it all works out for you quickly.
        I have been with them 9 years and they keep a MASSIVE 6 month rolling reserve to protect themselves. A phone call to my office could have sorted this out. I do enough volume to warrant that.
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        • Profile picture of the author Lance K
          Originally Posted by Brad Gosse View Post

          Originally Posted by Clearview View Post

          Maybe something set off a flag? Their next step is to investigate, which is what they are doing. I, for one, am glad that Paypal takes steps like this to ensure that they run a tight ship and people can't be scammed as easily.

          Safeguards like this are a good thing. It's not necessarily a case of "big, bad Paypal" being "big, bad Paypal".

          It just sucks, if what you said is true, that it happened to be you that was affected this time. Hope it all works out for you quickly.
          I have been with them 9 years and they keep a MASSIVE 6 month rolling reserve to protect themselves. A phone call to my office could have sorted this out. I do enough volume to warrant that.
          Exactly!

          The quest for quality control is no excuse for bypassing common sense and good customer service.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by Brad Gosse View Post

          I have been with them 9 years and they keep a MASSIVE 6 month rolling reserve to protect themselves. A phone call to my office could have sorted this out. I do enough volume to warrant that.
          Wow! That is definitely massive. I got an email suggesting that they were going to start holding reserves across the board for digital products but only for 60 days (for my niche and yes they stated it was the nature of my business not chargebacks - never had any - or complaints - few and all resolved ).

          I intend to take a look at 2checkout but so far Paypal has been pretty decent for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author l23bc
    had the same problem with my ebay selling account and im marketing payments into paypal, they frozen my account too


    hope you get it sorted
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    • Profile picture of the author TommyBussey
      Yea, PayPal screwed me on my eBay selling account as well. They just freakin' froze everything without a warning or an attempt to inform that I was doing something against policy. Since then I have stayed away from using them for anything.

      Originally Posted by l23bc View Post

      had the same problem with my ebay selling account and im marketing payments into paypal, they frozen my account too


      hope you get it sorted
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
    Some flunky hired to weed out accounts probably pulled the trigger without understanding your business. Gotta love these big companies.
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    • Profile picture of the author l23bc
      Originally Posted by Scott Ames View Post

      Some flunky hired to weed out accounts probably pulled the trigger without understanding your business. Gotta love these big companies.

      think my sitution was with paypal directly scott
      i think it was i hit my receiving limit because when i could raise the limits the account became good as new
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  • Profile picture of the author abo28
    Originally Posted by Brad Gosse View Post

    If you are trying to buy my WSO's please hold off. Paypal has decided to arbitrarily freeze my account. I got an email about selling "ponzi schemes" which I don't do.
    What exactly did you sell? What is the cause of this confusion? I'm asking because I want to avoid such a tperil in the future.

    I'm very sorry for what happened.
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    • Profile picture of the author Brad Gosse
      Originally Posted by abo28 View Post

      What exactly did you sell? What is the cause of this confusion? I'm asking because I want to avoid such a tperil in the future.

      I'm very sorry for what happened.
      They can't even see what the issue is. I think somone reported I was selling ponzi schemes (which I DON'T) and now they have me flagged.
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  • Profile picture of the author homeworkin
    I used to work at eBay, answering phones for PowerSellers. Yes, this does happen to a lot of people. One poor guy I talked to was using Sam's Club (discount club membership store run by Walmart, for those of you outside the US) as his "warehouse." Selling stuff on eBay, then purchasing it at a discount and shipping as items were ordered. His business was really picking up - then frozen overnight because his sales were so good PayPal decided something must be wrong. He could not even log in to refund customers. Painful but valuable lesson learned.

    If you do rely on PayPal, it is smart to clean out your account on a twice weekly basis if you have real money coming in. If you are in the habit of moving it to your bank account regularly, it means you are less likely to end up without your money for a long time. PayPal can and does freeze accounts for up to 6 months while they "investigate."

    As for what you can do now, obviously you are already working on a new processor, but I recommend politely inquiring every single day until you can get someone on the phone. They are notorious for not revealing what tipped them off - but that can make it tough to explain to them what is really going on.

    I have heard others' accused of Ponzi schemes by PayPal when they were reselling IM products intended to help people make money themselves. To PayPal, this can look like a pyramid -though you'd think they'd be used to online marketing business models by now. You might try Googling "PayPal" and "Ponzi" to see if you can learn what has helped others in the same boat.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
    Beed there done that .. Sorry for your trouble Brad, I know how stressful that can be. I been there for I think 8 years now and the security team every once in awhile decides to get a itch and start hitting keys.

    Many should wait until 2011 when they really crack down due to the government forcing them to do so.. I suspect you will see many accounts gone.

    James
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    • Profile picture of the author jameswatson
      Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet View Post

      Many should wait until 2011 when they really crack down due to the government forcing them to do so.. I suspect you will see many accounts gone.
      Sorry, what's going to happen in 2011 then?

      James
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      • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
        Originally Posted by jameswatson View Post

        Sorry, what's going to happen in 2011 then?

        James
        All earnings will be reported to the IRS ... So all those people (and there are many) that work under the table and do not file taxes are going to be in for a surprise...

        http://internetbiztaxtips.com/2008/0...ns-to-the-irs/

        James
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        • Profile picture of the author Livefire
          Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet View Post

          All earnings will be reported to the IRS ... So all those people (and there are many) that work under the table and do not file taxes are going to be in for a surprise...


          James
          Not only that, we will see the payment processors forced to adopt policies much like the banks have had to, in order to be in compliance with the myriad of government regulations. Stuff like Know Your Customer, Patriot Act, Treasury Dept Regs and the like. This bit with Paypal is only the beginning! Big Brother has arrived!

          A US citizenship has become more of a liability than an asset! Thanks again for sharing this.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
        Originally Posted by jameswatson View Post

        Sorry, what's going to happen in 2011 then?

        James
        US Government crackdown, sounds like.

        Brad,

        Get someone on the phone. If they can't help, demand their supervisor. Carry on until you talk to someone who can.
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
    Brad I feel sorry for you today. That really sucks. You have to scramble and figure out a way to get it resolved. As you said, they could have just given you a phone call, but they never do.

    I had an eBay account and an Adwords account revoked the same way. Both I had been with for eons and neither would tell me the exact reason.

    Its so frustrating when there are really bad thieves and scammers out there, but they pick on legit business people.
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  • Profile picture of the author SiteSeller52
    I have been a PayPal member for over 5 years and in that time they have frozen my Premier Business Account 6 or 7 times for processing "digital sales".
    Every time I have had a large or fairly large product launch PayPal decides I am doing something wrong and they end up freezing my account to do an independent investigation.
    This investigation consists of PayPal sending an email to several randomly selected buyers. In this email they ask the buyer if "they" purchased the product or if their account information was stolen and then used to buy the product.

    This process takes forever; PayPal will be investigating until the buzz from your product dissipates.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ross Dalangin
    Thanks for the warning. It's sad that you've come into this situation. We all know that there are so many paypal users and being frozed is a nightmare

    I am hoping that your account will switch back to make it active right away.

    Ross
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  • Profile picture of the author Brad Gosse
    Your Account Access is Fully Restored

    Thank you for taking the steps to restore your account access. Your patience and efforts increase security for our entire community of users.

    PayPal takes the safety of your account, business, and financial data as seriously as you do, and these ongoing checks of our system contribute to our high level of security.
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    • Profile picture of the author tecHead
      Originally Posted by Brad Gosse View Post

      Your Account Access is Fully Restored

      Thank you for taking the steps to restore your account access. Your patience and efforts increase security for our entire community of users.

      PayPal takes the safety of your account, business, and financial data as seriously as you do, and these ongoing checks of our system contribute to our high level of security.
      I don't get it.

      Yes, you were inconvenienced. Yes, you may have lost some sales.

      But, here you have a more than legitimate explanation of the reasoning behind their actions; yet you still bash their practices and take them as a personal attack.

      You rant on here about how unfair they are. You spread biased misinformation about PayPal to the newbies on this board who look to the senior Warriors for guidance... when more than one, (including myself), senior Warrior has explained more than once that if you inform PayPal ahead of time that your volume will be changing, you will run into NO problems, (there's even a reference or two about this in this thread).

      They release the hold on your account based on the merits of you cooperating with their (granted rather weighted) request. Then get pissed when they suspend your account because you try to do the unsmart thing of withdrawing all your money before the original red flag even turns to yellow... bring this thread back to life to spread more biased misinformation.

      I don't get it.

      Do you not see that PayPal is in the business of allowing anyone in the world; (just about); to open a virtual bank account in which to move money in and out of for FREE??

      Have you taken the time to take into account the possible international repercussions and ripple effect that would ensue should PayPal take a more relaxed approach to their security?

      - Money laundering
      - Terrorist group funding
      - Terrorist cell funding
      - Insurance scams
      - Money theft embezzlement

      Just to name a few. I am sure everyone is much more grateful these types of security measures are in place when they don't have to worry about their local cafe getting blown up by a suicide bomber who just got funded for that last piece of the bomb through his PayPal account.

      PEOPLE UNDERSTAND
      It is NOT the burden of PayPal, (or any international transaction engine, for that matter) to be prudent in checking your legitimacy status.

      It is YOUR burden to establish trust that you ARE legit. That's your obligation as a business owner.

      Stay strong and THINK
      PLP,
      tecHead
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by tecHead View Post

        It is YOUR burden to establish trust that you ARE legit. That's your obligation as a business owner.

        Stay strong and THINK
        PLP,
        tecHead
        The op stated that he has had the account since Paypal opened it's doors. If that isn't enough time for them to decide whether or not he is legit, then there's something wrong with their process ... and withdrawing YOUR money at ANY time should not raise a red flag. It IS YOUR money ... not Paypal's.


        Originally Posted by tecHead View Post

        Do you not see that PayPal is in the business of allowing anyone in the world; (just about); to open a virtual bank account in which to move money in and out of for FREE??
        They aren't free. They make plenty of money from these transactions.
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        • Profile picture of the author tecHead
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          The op stated that he has had the account since Paypal opened it's doors. If that isn't enough time for them to decide whether or not he is legit, then there's something wrong with their process ... and withdrawing YOUR money at ANY time should not raise a red flag. It IS YOUR money ... not Paypal's.
          This is naive in thinking that if you just got your account frozen/limited that it wouldn't raise a bigger red flag by removing all funds; when the original concern of PayPal was being able to handle possible refund requests, should they arise.

          I'm sure if at least 35% or more was left in the account, there wouldn't have been a justifiable reason for PayPal to take disciplinary action.

          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          They aren't free. They make plenty of money from these transactions.
          They are free in the sense that they do not require setup fees; as are required with merchant accounts, (and even ClickBank).
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          • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
            Originally Posted by tecHead View Post

            This is naive in thinking that if you just got your account frozen/limited that it wouldn't raise a bigger red flag by removing all funds; when the original concern of PayPal was being able to handle possible refund requests, should they arise.

            I'm sure if at least 35% or more was left in the account, there wouldn't have been a justifiable reason for PayPal to take disciplinary action.
            Just a sidenote..

            To any of us who are doing big numbers through Paypal, they hold a 10% of your funds for this reason above..

            There is no reason to leave any of your remaining cash in the account.

            Paypal holds a big fat chunk of change, just to keep us honest...lol

            Peace

            Jay
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        • Profile picture of the author DogScout
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          The op stated that he has had the account since Paypal opened it's doors. If that isn't enough time for them to decide whether or not he is legit, then there's something wrong with their process ... and withdrawing YOUR money at ANY time should not raise a red flag. It IS YOUR money ... not Paypal's.
          There are moles in this country that have been here for years. One was arrested last week, been here 10+ years and he was a newbie. I suspect considering the efficentcy of carrying out these types of operations in a semi-free country mean for every one they nail, 10-12 are out there. Or so I hear.
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      • Profile picture of the author Brad Gosse
        Originally Posted by tecHead View Post

        I don't get it.

        Yes, you were inconvenienced. Yes, you may have lost some sales.

        But, here you have a more than legitimate explanation of the reasoning behind their actions; yet you still bash their practices and take them as a personal attack.

        You rant on here about how unfair they are. You spread biased misinformation about PayPal to the newbies on this board who look to the senior Warriors for guidance... when more than one, (including myself), senior Warrior has explained more than once that if you inform PayPal ahead of time that your volume will be changing, you will run into NO problems, (there's even a reference or two about this in this thread).

        They release the hold on your account based on the merits of you cooperating with their (granted rather weighted) request. Then get pissed when they suspend your account because you try to do the unsmart thing of withdrawing all your money before the original red flag even turns to yellow... bring this thread back to life to spread more biased misinformation.

        I don't get it.

        Do you not see that PayPal is in the business of allowing anyone in the world; (just about); to open a virtual bank account in which to move money in and out of for FREE??

        Have you taken the time to take into account the possible international repercussions and ripple effect that would ensue should PayPal take a more relaxed approach to their security?

        - Money laundering
        - Terrorist group funding
        - Terrorist cell funding
        - Insurance scams
        - Money theft embezzlement

        Just to name a few. I am sure everyone is much more grateful these types of security measures are in place when they don't have to worry about their local cafe getting blown up by a suicide bomber who just got funded for that last piece of the bomb through his PayPal account.

        PEOPLE UNDERSTAND
        It is NOT the burden of PayPal, (or any international transaction engine, for that matter) to be prudent in checking your legitimacy status.

        It is YOUR burden to establish trust that you ARE legit. That's your obligation as a business owner.

        Stay strong and THINK
        PLP,
        tecHead
        I can't even begin to argue this with you. Fact is I have been with them since the start and was COLD CALLED to join by one of their execs.

        I have had a 10% rolling reserve forever and they are sitting on huge money there.

        What's so wrong with taking a withdrawal?

        FYI My complaints and chargebacks are WAY below the 1% standard.

        YES I am biased and YES I will tell everyone I know to RUN don't walk, leave paypal now before they freeze your account with no explanation.
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        • Profile picture of the author um1001
          Originally Posted by Brad Gosse View Post

          I can't even begin to argue this with you. Fact is I have been with them since the start and was COLD CALLED to join by one of their execs.

          I have had a 10% rolling reserve forever and they are sitting on huge money there.

          What's so wrong with taking a withdrawal?

          FYI My complaints and chargebacks are WAY below the 1% standard.

          YES I am biased and YES I will tell everyone I know to RUN don't walk, leave paypal now before they freeze your account with no explanation.
          I really feel your pain ... They have screwed me over more times than I care to count. I used to sell virtual currency (that is, money for online games - Everquest in this case) and I basically went bankrupt over fraudulent charges that Paypal didn't "feel" like investigating because it was digital product. I finally managed to track down their phone number (wasn't that easy back then...) and I got the same runaround on the phone.

          Their policies infuriate me sometimes. It seems they lose sight of the fact that there are real people with real finances on the other end of the e-mail.
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      • Profile picture of the author l23bc
        you are missing the whole point to this, sorry to say

        Paypal are notiorious and hold peoples money like a terrorist in iraq does to its captured.

        The fact is you work to the terms and conditions of paypal, pay your money into the damm thing and then bang! your account is suspended for suspicious actitvey. so while you wait for them to clear up your customers are trying to pay you for your products...moneys been turned away and you cannot access too it either! so talk about a double sword! and if they beleive the investigation is fraudelant you lose that money also,

        its been twice now it had happened to me, the first time i used to sell with my friend who is now a power seller on ebay, he sells the rare copies of star wars toy 1980 figures to private collectors and make some damm fine money off it also, plus other things, but since being a power seller he has too always go back to pp each week to say he made sales, its like paypal is like your cpa network manager least cpa managers can be more leineint and dont freeze your account,

        the fact is this the paypal policy sucks big time so please dont try to defend this, i remember back in 1997 when i was involved in mlm marketing referal i was getting paid a lousey dollar per referral and even when i reach 20 sales (20 dollars) they froze my account.

        today as soon as i make money i place it to a uk bank right away leaving nothing in the account, might take 4 working days to transmit but at least im saving the hassle when im paid by my networks or book business ect,

        if you notice the fact that them mlm and ponzi scams never get closed down yet there main processor is paypal, yet good honest people sell products and get shut down, sucks!

        andy




        Originally Posted by tecHead View Post

        I don't get it.

        Yes, you were inconvenienced. Yes, you may have lost some sales.

        But, here you have a more than legitimate explanation of the reasoning behind their actions; yet you still bash their practices and take them as a personal attack.

        You rant on here about how unfair they are. You spread biased misinformation about PayPal to the newbies on this board who look to the senior Warriors for guidance... when more than one, (including myself), senior Warrior has explained more than once that if you inform PayPal ahead of time that your volume will be changing, you will run into NO problems, (there's even a reference or two about this in this thread).

        They release the hold on your account based on the merits of you cooperating with their (granted rather weighted) request. Then get pissed when they suspend your account because you try to do the unsmart thing of withdrawing all your money before the original red flag even turns to yellow... bring this thread back to life to spread more biased misinformation.

        I don't get it.

        Do you not see that PayPal is in the business of allowing anyone in the world; (just about); to open a virtual bank account in which to move money in and out of for FREE??

        Have you taken the time to take into account the possible international repercussions and ripple effect that would ensue should PayPal take a more relaxed approach to their security?

        - Money laundering
        - Terrorist group funding
        - Terrorist cell funding
        - Insurance scams
        - Money theft embezzlement

        Just to name a few. I am sure everyone is much more grateful these types of security measures are in place when they don't have to worry about their local cafe getting blown up by a suicide bomber who just got funded for that last piece of the bomb through his PayPal account.

        PEOPLE UNDERSTAND
        It is NOT the burden of PayPal, (or any international transaction engine, for that matter) to be prudent in checking your legitimacy status.

        It is YOUR burden to establish trust that you ARE legit. That's your obligation as a business owner.

        Stay strong and THINK
        PLP,
        tecHead
        Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author Brad Gosse
    In the last 2 hours I have moved 5 figures in monthly sales volume over to clickbank. Not moving it back.
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    • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
      Originally Posted by Brad Gosse View Post

      In the last 2 hours I have moved 5 figures in monthly sales volume over to clickbank. Not moving it back.
      I wouldn't move it back either...

      But I certainly would not move it to clickbank.

      Get a couple merchant accounts instead...

      Because by moving it to clickbank you just went from paying 2-3% to paypal to 7.5% to clickbank...

      That means you will loose 4.5% + of your revenue that you were keeping when you were processing with Paypal.

      Clickbank is the most expensive processing solution I know of... and its feature poor to boot.
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      • Profile picture of the author Brad Gosse
        Originally Posted by Josh Anderson View Post

        I wouldn't move it back either...

        But I certainly would not move it to clickbank.

        Get a couple merchant accounts instead...

        Because by moving it to clickbank you just went from paying 2-3% to paypal to 7.5% to clickbank...

        That means you will loose 4.5% + of your revenue that you were keeping when you were processing with Paypal.

        Clickbank is the most expensive processing solution I know of... and its feature poor to boot.


        I have a merchant account now. Looking for a good processing solution.
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        • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
          Originally Posted by Brad Gosse View Post

          I have a merchant account now. Looking for a good processing solution.
          What do you mean by processing solution?

          Are you looking for a gateway that is compatible with you merchant account or a shoppingcart that works with your gateway that provides the features you are seeking?

          Feel free to contact me via PM if I can help you... merchant accounts, gateways, and ecommerce processing is what we help people do all day every day :-)

          Btw... I had the same thing happen with PayPal to me years ago...

          I told them that there was nothing in my business even remotely associated with mlm or ponzi and simply asked them to review my account...

          In less than 24 hours they wrote back apologizing for their mistake and its never been an issue since.
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          • Profile picture of the author Lance K
            Originally Posted by Josh Anderson View Post

            What do you mean by processing solution?

            Are you looking for a gateway that is compatible with you merchant account or a shoppingcart that works with your gateway that provides the features you are seeking?

            Feel free to contact me via PM if I can help you... merchant accounts, gateways, and ecommerce processing is what we help people do all day every day :-)

            Btw... I had the same thing happen with PayPal to me years ago...

            I told them that there was nothing in my business even remotely associated with mlm or ponzi and simply asked them to review my account...

            In less than 24 hours they wrote back apologizing for their mistake and its never been an issue since.
            Brad,

            Talk to Josh and set up an account with nanacast. You won't be sorry!
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            "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
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        • Profile picture of the author KristieDean
          Originally Posted by Brad Gosse View Post

          I have a merchant account now. Looking for a good processing solution.
          Please post when you find a good one.
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  • Profile picture of the author TeddyP
    This is infuriating.

    Nothing Brad sells even resembles a ponzi scheme - like not even close. Weird, maybe paypal uses the term Ponzi Scheme to cover a wider range of things than I know about.

    Oh well, I guess it can be chalked up to a lesson learned. I just wish Paypal didn't treat our livelihoods so superfluously. They obviously know the numbers Brad is dealing with, so they should know how significant shutting down his payments could be.

    A simple phone call would have saved Brad money, saved paypal money and in the end been a quicker resolution to this whole situation.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheDebtEliminator
    Hello Brad,

    This a wakeup call for many here.

    I will try to obtain at least 2 more alternate ways to collect money from customers.

    It is possible to go direct to Credit Card companies ... just go for the higher rates and one that will handle things like casinos as they will not cut you off easily.

    All the Best
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  • Profile picture of the author JBorhez
    Wow! Very enlightening thread!

    Glad to hear you've resolved...at least with Paypal.
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  • Profile picture of the author jgand
    Yeah, I've noticed paypal is getting more aggressive as of late, maybe its do to a number of complaints. But it will only lose them business.
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  • Profile picture of the author dean_holland
    Hi

    A little advice for those that dont already do so or ma yneed to in the future ...

    If you are doing a big launch or expecting more money going into your paypal account than normal then call them. Tell them what you are doing and a rough estimate of the funds you expect to recieve and over what time period.

    I myself did this a week prior to my 5 figure launch and had no problem at all, it was recorded on their system what was happening and all was fine.

    A friend I know has taken 6 figures in less than a week into paypal and using this plan of telling them what is going to happen worked for him too.

    I expect most of you already do so but for those that dont it's certainly better to do this than to not IMO

    Hope that helps a little

    Dean
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  • Profile picture of the author Brad Gosse
    FYI they unfroze my account...

    I did the smart thing and tried to withdraw some funds.

    Now my account is closed for "suspicious withdraws"

    Who wouldn't clear their account after having it frozen?

    My advice is to stay clear of paypal. They are holding a few grand for the next 6 months on me while I scramble to get my merchant gateway up.

    HATE Paypal. I can't even pay for my WSO bumps until I get my wife to setup a personal account.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeLantz
      Originally Posted by Brad Gosse View Post

      FYI they unfroze my account...

      I did the smart thing and tried to withdraw some funds.

      Now my account is closed for "suspicious withdraws"

      Who wouldn't clear their account after having it frozen?

      My advice is to stay clear of paypal. They are holding a few grand for the next 6 months on me while I scramble to get my merchant gateway up.

      HATE Paypal. I can't even pay for my WSO bumps until I get my wife to setup a personal account.
      Hey Brad,

      If you need me to run your transactions for WSO Pro stuff for you, and some WSO bumps, let me know. I am glad to help out.

      Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author hard-bounce
    I had been using paypal quite hapily for 5 years then did a big promo launch and put a significant amount of money through Paypal in a few hours, result, freeze the account.

    I had also as a matter of precaution called them to tell them I would be putting 6 figures through in a short space of time as I always do before launches.

    I am not alone, a good friend of mine recently had his account froze after a similar thing.

    Be careful as the word is Paypal is getting jittery about all the FTC crackdown on IMers

    I have use 2CO as well for some time with good success and also world pay, it pays to have a back up or 2 just in case.

    Neil
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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    WOW that just bites. I am so sorry you're going through this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Richelo Killian
    Think it's time to go and dust off my trusty old 2CO account! They accept PayPal also, so, people can still pay with PayPal if they want.
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  • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
    Let us know if you ever find out what the problem was.

    Have you had any complaints or too many refunds?

    We have 3 different merchant accounts so that we don't have all of our eggs in one basket.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Collard
    Great discussion here for a newbie. I have a PayPal account, and CB, and I prefer to use the former only because the commissions are lower, and you can get at your money much quicker.

    But, what I DON'T like about PayPal is that they discriminate against customers who don't have a PayPal account and choose to use their credit card. In all cases, they are not directed automatically to the product's download page. And the link to "return to merchant" is so small, 80% of my customers miss it.

    I guess it's a trade off - good access to sales, but dodgey forwarding to my download page...
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    • Profile picture of the author tecHead
      Originally Posted by Mark Collard View Post

      Great discussion here for a newbie. I have a PayPal account, and CB, and I prefer to use the former only because the commissions are lower, and you can get at your money much quicker.

      But, what I DON'T like about PayPal is that they discriminate against customers who don't have a PayPal account and choose to use their credit card. In all cases, they are not directed automatically to the product's download page. And the link to "return to merchant" is so small, 80% of my customers miss it.

      I guess it's a trade off - good access to sales, but dodgey forwarding to my download page...
      Do you have the "auto-return" feature turned on?
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    Brad

    Bravo for moving your action away from Paypal in such rapid fashion.... BUT

    Do yourself a favour..

    Merchant Accounts, dude.

    Clickbank is gonna turn you over in fees... and all for a flawed system

    Just a word

    Peace

    Jay
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  • Profile picture of the author Profit-smart
    Solution:

    Plimus.com

    If you absolutely MUST be able to process paypal payments.

    Also, for infovendors;

    Kunaki.com

    Ships a hardcopy!

    Meaning you have 2 layers of protection.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bucky769
    Same thing happened to me, they froze my account no warning....total BS
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  • Profile picture of the author DAS_Matt
    Hmm.. interesting thread.. sucks what happened to be sure as it costs you business but Paypal also has to protect their customers, etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author steve39
      Hi Brad,

      Thanks for the info. I am on the verge of starting a membership site and stories like this make me cringe. After all, when you are relying on this money to live on, it can be stressful thinking they can take it away at any time. I believe I will apply at 2checkout and have a backup before I launch.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author edmltw
        Hey guys.. Lets say for example:

        I have a a 2,000 pay slip going into paypal.

        Should I:

        1) Get the money in batches of 500 on day1, day2, day3 ,day4?

        2) Get the entire thing, and after which, send an email to the staff of paypal informing them of the reason why you received a big influx of cash?

        3) Get the money in batches of 1000 on day1, day3?

        4) Any other suggestions?
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      • Profile picture of the author ibuyhomz
        Just go to Paypalsucks.com for tons of stories and solutions for
        your very own merchant account.
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      • Profile picture of the author Livefire
        First of all, I'm sorry to hear about Brad's trouble with paypal. I also believe it's the first of many more incidents to come with companies like paypal. The Federal Government is seeking more ways to capatalize on the productivity of self employed entrepreneurs like those found on this forum. Its also all about control. Paypal has probably already adopted Know Your Customer policies much like the banks are required to. Banks routinely file Suspicious Activity Reports with the FBI when unusual deposits and withdrawals are made. I wouldnt be surprised if paypal does this also. Same thing goes for transactions that reach the magic 10K amount. Transaction report is made to the Treasury Department so it can be investigated for possible money laundering, tax evasion, & ad nauseum BS...... If you control the money, you dont care about it's laws and you have the people right where you want them!

        Paypal isnt going to be alone in this. Herzlich Wilkommen zur Polizei Staat Amerikas!!!! (Warm Welcome to the Police State of Amerika!)
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  • Profile picture of the author MarshallWayne
    I've had over $40,000 frozen. It eventually got resolved but it ended up costing me an awful lot of money in sales that weren't able to come in due to the account being frozen.

    They can really be a hassle if they don't fully understand our businesses.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sonomacats
    If you have a big launch going and think paypal is going to be a problem, use 1shoppingcart.com or something similar. It's worth it. I've contacted Paypal when I've put something new and big together and didn't have a problem, but I never do anything with them where there's going to be a huge spike in mone coming in because I've heard too many horror stories.

    If you're going to do a big sudden launch, I'd recommend getting a merchant account and have a Paypal option (with a pre-launch call to Paypay), or get another processor. Frankly, they're worried about losing money on a slim chance you're running a fraud.

    On the other hand, I've had my account with them for over 6 years and I'm super careful what I run through them and how I handle them. I also have other options (like 1shoppingcart or other vendors) so I don't have to worry. But I also let them know when something big is about to happen.

    On the other hand, I seldom run big launch type things, so that keeps me out of their cross-hairs. If you avoid that big launch thing, the sales you make will seem normal to the powers-that-be at Paypal and you're less likely to have a problem. Just let them know that you "might" have a spike (when you have something new) and that should take care of it. It has for me.

    But there are other options, so if you're into the big launch thing, you might be better off with those.
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  • Profile picture of the author trippmarxx
    Sorry to hear about that Brad. That's definitely a pain in the ass. Hope you didn't have 5 figures or anything heavy like that locked up.

    PayPal does have it's issues, that's for sure. I've got the business debit card and will make withdrawls once a week at an ATM. Anytime I use the card for anything else, say to buy business supplies or pay for something online, they immediately freeze my account, and I've got to go through leaps and bounds to get it unfroze. I learned my lesson the first couple times, and I just don't make any purchases with that card - Just withdrawl cash only.
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    • Profile picture of the author DogScout
      Originally Posted by trippmarxx View Post

      PayPal does have it's issues, that's for sure. I've got the business debit card and will make withdrawls once a week at an ATM. Anytime I use the card for anything else, say to buy business supplies or pay for something online, they immediately freeze my account, and I've got to go through leaps and bounds to get it unfroze. I learned my lesson the first couple times, and I just don't make any purchases with that card - Just withdrawl cash only.

      Chase is the same way. They deny my card on a regular basis. Fraud prevention on steroids. Lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mitch Miller
    Does anybody know at what point does PayPal start holding 10%? I currently run about 5k a month through PP. Maybe that's not enough to trigger the 10% withholding?

    In regards to the business debit card, I have one and use it all the time without incident. I have often wondered if it isn't the debit card transactions that help them feel I am legit.

    This chat makes me nervous as a whore in church.
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    • Profile picture of the author deankagan
      Originally Posted by Mitch Miller View Post

      Does anybody know at what point does PayPal start holding 10%? I currently run about 5k a month through PP. Maybe that's not enough to trigger the 10% withholding?

      In regards to the business debit card, I have one and use it all the time without incident. I have often wondered if it isn't the debit card transactions that help them feel I am legit.

      This chat makes me nervous as a whore in church.
      Brad I am not sure it is just on a dollar amount. They are probably running some algorithm on this. I will tell you I was running $40K per month through there and more using my merchant account. I really do not remember having a reserve but maybe in the beginning of my business they did something and I cannot remember. I am sure any increase that has a trajectory to it would lght a fire under them. You might want to see if there is a paypal forum somewhere with some experienced people. I mentioned on another post the PESA organization. I have not been on their site in awhile but there are some very sharp people on there and they have some amazing discussions. It is called the Professional eBay Sellers Association. You just might be able to sign up on the site and get on the discussion board and talk to people. I will also pm you the name of someone I know that has a pretty big operation and might have dealt with this in the past.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Man this sucks. If my paypal went down Id be pushing a broom within days.
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    • Profile picture of the author Brad Gosse
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      Man this sucks. If my paypal went down Id be pushing a broom within days.
      Get yourself a backup. NOW!
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      • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
        Originally Posted by Brad Gosse View Post

        Get yourself a backup. NOW!
        Yeah but what Brad? Any recommendations???
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  • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
    PayPal is the friggin' master at loopholes. Remember to use PayPal defensively, and always have a back up plan. I've got probably 10 horror stories that I could tell on this forum.

    The great thing about PayPal is the fact that they are a Transaction Service and not a bank. This makes using them with what I call "defensive information" a great tactic when dealing with them for any purpose.

    There is absolutely no way in hell I would be using PayPal if I were moving more than 4 figures a month. At that point, it would behoove ANYONE to choose a more professional service. It's crazy that such a profitable and wealthy company can be so unprofessional.

    Another thing is, PayPal employees DO take part in forums just like these. I've been on several forums where people share their PayPal horror stories and every once in a while, we get a small wave of people that are for some reason pro-paypal beyond reason. After a while, moderators and administrators found that all of these pro-paypal people were posting from the same ISP.
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  • Profile picture of the author deankagan
    Hi Brad

    I used Paypal mostly for my ebay business up until about a year ago and we had one issue and it was related to a dispute on a return. I am sure that as you said someone reported you. I was also involved with PESA which is for some high revenue producing Powersellers. From what I understood is people running a large amount through paypal had an account manager they could work with. If not their should be a contact person that can give you timelines on a resolution. The reserve I am not familiar with as we ran a different business model and I do not think it was an issue.

    Once thing I do know is I had a set dollar amount that once we hit that balance in the acccount e did a withdrawal and that for the most part was daily. It only takes a few seconds to do and it is worth it to reduce the risk.

    For credit cards we used Authorize.net andwere able to integrate that into the backend system we were using. Not sure if that helps or not. Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author Samken
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author DogScout
      Originally Posted by Samken View Post

      For a total newbie like me, what other payment processing options do i have apart from CB since paypal can't be relied on?
      Most local banks have internet portals available. If you keep in touch (and smooze a little) with the local branch manager, as well as keep them informed when you expect spikes, most will work with you just fine and no freezing issues. You have to have a relationship with them, keep them informed and accept Credit cards.
      Then you are good. (they will report income, so you do need to do your taxes straight, but I assume PP does as well. )
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  • Profile picture of the author jamestame
    WOW that really sucks, sorry to hear that... I never thought that paypal out of all companies would do something like that, especially to a customer that was there pretty much from the start...

    I would be pretty darn pissed off if that happened to me

    Best of luck and i hope it resolves in your favor!
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  • Profile picture of the author divinewind
    I had my paypal account for 2 years and didn't use it for about a year. While I wasn't using it, something must've happened like someone stealing my paypal info and using it for some adult payment scheme, cause I didn't touch it, and then all of the sudden my account was frozen and I was banned from ever using them again.

    I talked to their service, and through a lot of talking with different teams, they ended up telling me there was nothing I could do.

    I even tried opening up a new bank account. They cancelled me after verification. I am quite pissed at them cause I've always been 100% legit and I read and abided by their terms of service. Now I need them and they aren't letting me do business with them nor will they provide proof it was me who did this, or allow me to discuss this with them. To do biz with them I'd probably have to hire a lawyer, but it's just not worth it right now... I use google checkout and they're great with me.
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  • Profile picture of the author J. Barry Mandel
    Problem: Paypal is freezing accounts.

    SOLUTION: Get yourself a Paypal rep. and keep in contact with them.

    End of story.

    I've seen this thread appear dozens of times and the OP *never* has a PP rep - There's no need to fear PP.

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  • Profile picture of the author deanfz
    Oh Man. That really sucks Brad. How the hell do they think that you are selling ponzi schemes all of a sudden???

    Well, what should we do in a case like this? There are other online banks like alert pay... But which one is good?

    Greetings
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeZewski
    Thats nothing suprising. Paypal makes things more difficult than its worth.
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  • Profile picture of the author DC England
    Well, this is all new to me! I have been with Paypal for 5 years now and I don't send high volume of payments thorugh it. Could this be cause from reading your previous posts?
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  • Profile picture of the author tecHead
    My Nana, (rest her soul), always told me to never really judge anyone(s) until walking a mile in their moccasins. Those words of wisdom have always worked for me and I think it might apply, here.

    Book Review: The Paypal Wars - Entrepreneurs-Journey.com by Yaro Starak

    That link is to a review of the book, "PayPal Wars"; which is an inside account of goings on inside PayPal during their beginnings and well into their current position.

    Even just the review is an eye opener for small businesspeople striving to do business on the level of PayPal.

    PLP,
    tecHead
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  • Profile picture of the author seobro
    This one of many reasons to not use Ebay. Please remember that Ebay now forces people to use their paypal system. Before you could take a personal check or MO. Here is one reason out of many, to not use Ebay.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Cabo
    Sorry to hear that. I understand the frustration is causes. I happen to me. Make sure to give them a heads up before you launch or cause a rush of orders, payments to come into your PayPal acct. They fear people pulling a fast one.
    Let me know if you have questions.
    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Suthan M
    Give this a try:
    Give Me Your Feedback !!

    Been frozen so many times, that i wear fur jacket everytime i go online .. Doesnt faze me anymore .. lol :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author George Wright
      Hi asianlunatic,

      I downloaded your report and it's great. Thanks much.

      I had a similar experience to yours and got the same "your account is restored." I was so Leary at the time I just cancelled my account. Then PayPal sent me an email asking me to come back. I did and I've been very cautious ever since. Your report shows me that these things happen and there are solutions and my experience was not just a fluke. Thanks again

      George Wright

      Originally Posted by asianlunatic View Post

      Give this a try:
      Give Me Your Feedback !!

      Been frozen so many times, that i wear fur jacket everytime i go online .. Doesnt faze me anymore .. lol :-)
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      • Profile picture of the author Suthan M
        Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

        Hi asianlunatic,

        I downloaded your report and it's great. Thanks much.

        I had a similar experience to yours and got the same "your account is restored." I was so Leary at the time I just cancelled my account. Then PayPal sent me an email asking me to come back. I did and I've been very cautious ever since. Your report shows me that these things happen and there are solutions and my experience was not just a fluke. Thanks again

        George Wright
        Glad that this comes of help for you.

        For everyone, dont take this freeze thing personally. Take it as a challenge, and move forward positively with your business.
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  • Profile picture of the author jbode
    Anybody have a good recommendation for another payment processor... what have you found to be the best (that only takes a small %)?
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  • Profile picture of the author Amir.S
    Andy, your right mate,

    Paypal sucks big time, my paypal account is frozen as well as I made "too much money" when MJ died I sold moonwalker dvd's and made a killing on ebay, but my accound is still frozen

    I use my brothers accound as I really cant find an alternative to sh**y PP.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Lewis
    Wow Im glad im not the only one this happens to. I have had my paypal frozen a few times and I dont really make any money yet. Maybe $500 here and there. Somehow paypal needs to implement a system where they have a "Trusted" accounts list where they lift a lot of there holds. (Or maybe they can have the option to have a side account where you put money in a CD or something so they could take that money in the event everyone you sold a product to asks for a refund)

    Any Ideas to something as good as paypal but not as strict?

    The thing that bothers me most about paypal is there customer service. I never get the same answer from anyone and sometimes there english is terrible.
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  • Profile picture of the author Emily Meeks
    I'm not fond of Paypal, but they are a necessary evil it seems.

    I clear funds out of there regularly. I also plan to launch a new WSO fairly soon, so I have to get on the phone with them very, very soon... and of course, watch my account like a hawk.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michelle Adams
      Sorry to hear this happened and thanks for the heads up! It would be great if you could let us know what solution you end up with outside of ClickBank.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by Michelle Adams View Post

        Sorry to hear this happened and thanks for the heads up! It would be great if you could let us know what solution you end up with outside of ClickBank.

        google checkout, 2checkout and Amazon payments (which is looking interesting again after a kind of relaunch recently)
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  • Profile picture of the author STKING
    Yeah, paypal is shutting down a number of processors, I haven't been shut down yet, but I don't use them. It's such a clunky system sometimes and I get more abandoned carts with paypal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Moser
    I don't understand paypal... Why aren't they held to the same rules and regulations as every other bank? They seem to be able to make their own rules whereas a federally insured bank with (FDIC) can't just randomly freeze your account and take your money.

    I've spoken paypal on the phone about getting a rep and they told me that I needed business account and I must be doing high volume to be eligible for a rep.

    2Checkout isn't any better either. There are horror stories of them freezing accounts and keeping money too!
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    • Profile picture of the author Livefire
      Originally Posted by Aaron Moser View Post

      I don't understand paypal... Why aren't they held to the same rules and regulations as every other bank? They seem to be able to make their own rules whereas a federally insured bank with (FDIC) can't just randomly freeze your account and take your money.

      I've spoken paypal on the phone about getting a rep and they told me that I needed business account and I must be doing high volume to be eligible for a rep.

      2Checkout isn't any better either. There are horror stories of them freezing accounts and keeping money too!
      Paypal is in no way a bank. They are a payment processor. Banks are licensed to loan credit and have reserve requrements and the like. The banks are governed by the Federal Reserve System and agencies such as the FDIC and the SEC. BTW under certain circumstances or when certain events occur with an account, they definately can freeze an account.

      Also, when you agree to Paypal's TOS, that is a legally enforceable contract and their lawyers most certainly have covered their caboose as to the legality of their seemingly "arbitrary and capricious" decisions to freeze accounts. I like the line from the original Charlie and the Chocolate Factory..... Contracts are for suckers, Wonka!!! I use them everyday!!! Mr Sault, used car salesman and Veruca's dad......

      Bottom line, Paypal has a great gig going and is going to do what it needs to do to keep it going. No way do they want to deal with DOJ lawyers bringing them up on criminal charges for money laundering or anything like that. That is exactly what happened to e-gold!
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  • Profile picture of the author Brad Gosse
    UPDATE: I wrote a blog post about this and it got picked up by a fairly large tech blog. Then the AUP department worked with me to resolve THEIR mistakes.

    My "no chance of appeal" was granted appoval.

    I am active again.

    I still highly reccomend you use another processor. Paypal has VERY poor business relations with their account holders. I have learned a valuable lesson with all of this.
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  • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
    Great thread - learned something new with the rep so will be looking into that. Here's something for those new to take away from this:

    1. Paypal is not a bank - don't treat them like such.
    2. They are a necessary evil starting out - lower fees than Clickbank.
    3. Don't leave a lot of money sitting there for them to freeze
    4. CALL them if you're going to be doing anything out of the norm (for your account) to give them a heads up. I've done this when launching a product etc.

    Thanks Brad for a great thread.
    --Jack
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Murphy
    Hey Brad, awesome that it got unlocked thanks to a highly visible blog! It's amazing that they've been able to continue on with their crappy ways.

    Getting a PP rep...now there is a killer tip that I'll be acting on before everyone else jumps all over it......was that out loud?

    Glad you're back up man.
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    Guitar PLR - New MONSTER Guitar Video PLR Pack![LIMITED]
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