DON'T YOU REALLY FEEL CHEATED.

by Milton
20 replies
you just purchased this great you bute wiz bang program that's going to do all this fantastic stuff,\. You paid perhaps a $100 dollars or more
and from the sales page you are convinced (otherwize you wouldn't have bought it) that it is going to do all these wonderful things and help
you make some money, or make life a bit easier.....and then.....BUT WAAAAIT THERE'S MORE... You really really need all this extra stuff to make it work the way it's supposed to.

Well geeez I thought I just bought something that was going to work the way it's supposed to, why do I have to spend another couple of hundred
dollars??????

As you probably guesed OTO'S that are just giving you the rest of the program that you just bought, really really get up my nose.
To be fair I don't mind OTO'S that give you something extra that isn't a continuation of what you just bought. Really if I had known that I was only getting half a program then I wouldn't have bought it because my budget may not allow me to buy the other half, so I sit there
looking at the Oto that's telling me... he dumbo you only have half the program... shell out another couple hundred and you can have the best
bits.

Suppose you went to your car dealer and he had your you bute car sitting there at a price. You sign on the dotted line and hand over your money
and then he says BUT WAAAAIT. FOR ANOTHER $XXXX we willl put in the engine for you, what you just bought is only the shinny package.

Used car dealers..Internet marketers.. not much difference??
Milton Reid
#cheated #feel
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
    If you feel cheated, get a refund.

    It's a crappy practice when it's abused, and if people refuse to buy, marketers might stop doing it.

    A good upsell should solve the problem the first product creates...

    ..."Now you're catching so many fish, where are you gonna store them all? Put 'em in this..."
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  • Profile picture of the author Gambino
    I've never once seen anyone pitch half a program, or sell half a program and then use the other half of the program as an upsell or OTO.

    It makes zero sense to sell half of anything. Every upsell or OTO I've ever seen was something that added value to the original offer.

    Curious where you're seeing these funnels.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
      Originally Posted by Gambino View Post

      Curious where you're seeing these funnels.
      I've seen a few on JVZoo and Warrior Plus.
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      • Profile picture of the author Gambino
        Originally Posted by Michael Meaney View Post

        I've seen a few on JVZoo and Warrior Plus.
        Crazy, hopefully they're good at processing refunds because I can't imagine anyone would be dumb enough to buy the second half of a course they thought they had already bought.
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        • Profile picture of the author Milton
          Originally Posted by Gambino View Post

          Crazy, hopefully they're good at processing refunds because I can't imagine anyone would be dumb enough to buy the second half of a course they thought they had already bought.
          I've been around this business for a long while and never considered asking for a refund except in the last couple of years.
          I must be the only one seeing the offerings with multiple upsels and downsells. I know it's the latest thing being taught but how long do you want to sit there clicking "no thanks"

          My JVZoo account goes back to 2011, probably when they started and with very few refunds but most seem to be in recent times.
          My most recent purchase costs over 80US dollars and had I bought the extras that I consider the program needs to make complete it would have cost me close to another $300us. ($434Au) but I cut my losses so to speak.
          I would have been happy to pay that much if It had been presented in a proper manner and proved worthy..
          I have paid over a thousand dollars at a time, in the past for coaching that was offered in an honest way and presented in its entirety, and I am always happy to buy new, and what I think are innovative programs, I moved on from buying coaching to now buying tools. In the case of the program that got up my nose, after paying and thinking I was going to get something of value I find, quotes like "if you really want this to work you need xyz" and this is the third time in as many weeks I've seen this.

          In any case I've said enough and guess I probably buy too much, but I consider it the way to know what's happening in the business. As they say "you can't judge a book by its cover" and I say you don't know what a program is until you buy it and then find you have to buy all the upsells to make it what it's supposed to be.
          Could it be they are marketing to a species of buyers that I don't understand.
          As you can see I don't post much in the forum but I read a lot here and know a lot of good marketers in here, but this new idea seems a bit off to me.
          I will go now and leave you in peace for a couple of more years.
          Happy marketing
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  • Profile picture of the author DURABLEOILCOM
    Stop trying to buy short cuts and magical systems or websites that will make you a billionaire after buying. Build your business from the ground up and make the dream work.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jen Eick
    I agree completely.

    Some programs are hyped as being "THE" solution...only to realize after purchase that you need upsell 1, 2, and 3 to "really" make it work. I always get a bad taste in my mouth about those.

    Like Durableoilcom said - When you stop focusing on the sales pages and focus on learning the technique, it helps you to avoid getting flim-flammed.

    I look at it in terms of my structured business plan and goals. If this product/program enhances what I'm already doing (helps make it easier, faster, helps automate it, whatever)...it's worth looking at. It will usually be a tool of some sort. But if it's some hyped-up "new" method that didn't have any place in my original plan...it's probably a shiny object that I don't need, anyway.

    To be fair, there are also completely legitimate programs that offer upgrades, but mention upfront that they will not be needed to make original said product work. I not only don't mind that, I respect those who do that instead of engaging in the "surprise, you need this to make what you just bought work" tactic.
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  • Profile picture of the author Obermair
    Luckily I have never run into a situation where the product sold is not complete - it may not have been of value, but it was complete.

    There are a number of terrific products that assist in building out your business. I am a great believer in the Tribe. That is, when you are looking for a solution to a process problem, reach out to the folks you know and trust and ask for their experience and referrals. More often than not, someone has already encountered this issue and has a recommended solution that will work for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
    How is this different than buying a car? Cars are many things to different people, but above all else, they are a tool. Their main purpose is to get you from Point A to Point B, safely and if you purchase the most basic model at the lowest possible price - it will do that.

    Some people like to purchase the options, many of which are sold in packages, escalating in price and functionality - all meant to 'improve' your driving experience. Many people would never consider purchasing a base model car. Myself, I want every whiz-bang feature they can load onto that puppy.

    When I purchase a product, I know going in that 90% of the time there are going to be upsells and oftentimes 3 or 4. I also know going in that I am probably going to want all except the last one, which is generally 'reseller rights.' Not interested in that.

    What I don't understand about these complaints going in, is this. You know there are going to be upsells, but you also know that almost all products do what they claim to do, right out of the box. If you don't want upsells, don't buy the initial product. How many times do you have to experience this before you know how the game is played, unless you are a very slow learner?

    This is the reality of Internet marketing. Complaining about it is a waste of your time. Do you think you are going to change anything? Do you think buyers will rise-up in unison and promise never to buy until this insulting sales technique is abandoned? Really???

    You could be spending that time learning how to use upsell number 1 to increase your chances of making money. lol

    In my experience, most of these products, including the upsells I will purchase wind-up costing between $100 and $150 - tops. Rarely more. If I can see where this purchase might help me land so much as one new client, or save me a few hours work per week, how is it NOT worth that to me? Don't look at your business with a pauper's mentality, unless you want to remain a pauper. I NEVER look at what I'm spending. I look at what I can realistically expect as a return on my investment - IF I take action, learn the product's capabilities and employ them competently. I have never blamed a product for any lack of success I might not have achieved on any given project. Whenever I wanted to accurately determine what went wrong - I headed for the nearest mirror, because that is where the problem would be clearly exposed.

    Just plain, silly!
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    The #1 lesson you can take from feeling cheated Milton is: every experience serves you Meaning feeling cheated indicates your fear-greed-desperation-lack of clarity was the cause of buying a product that wasn't too hot. Or, you did not vet the seller properly, growing to trust them. Or the product is spectacular but your fear and pain doesn't allow you to see it.

    I recall someone leaving a 1 star review on my eBook. Said it was just about me walking dogs. But I included 83 pages of practical advice, endorsed by a guy who is a consultant for Nike, Google, Microsoft and Tony Robbins. Their pain and misery and fear created an alternate reality making them blind to good advice.

    Ryan
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by ryanbiddulph View Post


      I recall someone leaving a 1 star review on my eBook. Said it was just about me walking dogs. But I included 83 pages of practical advice, endorsed by a guy who is a consultant for Nike, Google, Microsoft and Tony Robbins. Their pain and misery and fear created an alternate reality making them blind to good advice.

      Ryan

      That doesn't rebut that it was about you walking dogs which is what you left out. (never read it so can't say but just saying.....83 pages and endorsement doesn't say he was wrong and it wasn't an endorsement about you walking dogs).
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  • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
    I can't see what was posted, but I'm willing to bet it informs you of just how emotionally inadequate you are - and the post has more to do with him, than you.

    No - I am not a psychic. lol
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve B
    Originally Posted by Milton View Post

    Used car dealers..Internet marketers.. not much difference??



    Milton,


    That's a pretty broad brush you're using to paint Internet marketers with and I don't think it fits most marketers I know. Could it be that you're buying your IM tools and courses from the wrong people?


    Here's my advice, FWIW:
    • Buy from marketers you trust and those who have great reputations in the business
    • Read the sales offer carefully so you'll understand exactly what's included in the package
    • If you have questions or aren't sure about something, ask the seller or product creator. Ask if there are any upsells - they'll tell you.
    • If you find that the product is lacking or deceptive, get a refund.
    • Every purchase you make is totally your decision. Take ownership . . . . no one is forcing you to buy. If there is any question about the offer, ask in advance. If you don't get satisfaction - don't buy.
    I have been in this industry (IM) since the late 1990s and I have never had the experience you're talking about. I am careful about what I buy. Yes, I have heard a few people complain about this practice (of delivering a partial product) but I have always thought ... I wonder if this person (1) read the full sales offer, (2) even gave the product a chance at success, or (3) is having buyer's remorse because the product requires some actual work or effort.


    Just my opinion,


    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Originally Posted by Milton View Post

    Suppose you went to your car dealer and he had your you bute car sitting there at a price. You sign on the dotted line and hand over your money
    and then he says BUT WAAAAIT. FOR ANOTHER we willl put in the engine for you, what you just bought is only the shinny package.

    Used car dealers..Internet marketers.. not much difference??
    Milton Reid
    I'm grown. If I bought a car for a hundred dollars I would know its going to need additional work.

    I'd also know if " from the sales page I was convinced it is going to do all these wonderful things and help me make some money, or make life a bit easier" for a hundred dollars I was living in a temporary fantasy world.

    problem with the IM market is double faceted

    both the buyer and the seller is complicit in greed and laziness. The seller is selling a fantasy and the buyer is looking and only going to buy whats around a hundred dollars and allegedly will spit out Ben Franklins two or three times a day while the buyer is binge watching Stranger Things on his /her couch.
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    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      I was living in a temporary fantasy world".
      Some folks have taken-up permanent residence.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Hunsons
    The life practice on this issues shows that customer always wins the battle with cheating and getting refund.
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  • Profile picture of the author pheonix44
    Used car dealers..Internet marketers.. not much difference
    I think there's a difference. Used car dealers don't set out to take advantage of someone, but in a lot of cases there's something left out that had questions been asked on the front end could have avoided issues later. Internet marketers want conversions and usually are willing to answer as many questions as they believe potential buyers might ask in advance. If you go to a used car dealership in a lot of cases if you don't ask, then you won't know. This is why you're encouraged to bring someone with you to such places who knows cars and can check to see if there's an issue before purchasing.
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    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by pheonix44 View Post

      Used car dealers don't set out to take advantage of someone.
      Right. They are paragons of integrity.
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  • It's an almost certainty that you're a low-class marketer, Milton.

    No one, unless you're an opportunity seeking tactical-loophole-addict, gets ripped off more than once.

    It just doesn't happen.

    I've been in this game for over 10 years now and not once have I been ripped off.

    If it happened once, I promise you it wouldn't happen again

    Take some bloody responsibility.
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    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty View Post

      It's an almost certainty that you're a low-class marketer, Milton.
      Insulting forum members can result in being banned. Just a heads-up.
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