Anyone know anything about branding?!

59 replies
Here's the deal:
We're creating a brand for ballet dancers, primarily. But many of the dancers are ages 7-14. So their moms are the ones buying from us.

My question is:
Should our branding be geared toward dancers, who the products are for. Or dance moms, who will actually be buying most of the products?

Who would be considered out target market? Would our customer profile be the mom or the dancer?

Any wisdom/insight would be MUCH APPRECIATED
#branding
  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
    Ideally the brand should be developed in a way that appeals to both child and adult.

    If you consider the adults mode of thinking, they will be attracted to a brand out of personal preference but they'll often also be figuratively seeing through the eyes of the child too, taking their perspective into consideration.

    The best example to consider would be childrens toy manufacturers / stores; Lego, Duplo, ToysR'Us, Fisher Price - to name a few. These examples are childlike, but to an extent which is sensible and legible, thus potentially appealling to adults.

    To give you a better basis for judgement, you can construct a mood board consisting of competitor logos. This will give you a feel for how others have established their image and a grasp of the overall market image as a whole.

    This represents the first stage of planning.

    Next is the composition of a mind map - brainstorming ideas based upon concepts and principle you observe in the mood board.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ronish Baxter
      Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

      Ideally the brand should be developed in a way that appeals to both child and adult.

      If you consider the adults mode of thinking, they will be attracted to a brand out of personal preference but they'll often also be figuratively seeing through the eyes of the child too, taking their perspective into consideration.

      The best example to consider would be childrens toy manufacturers / stores; Lego, Duplo, ToysR'Us, Fisher Price - to name a few. These examples are childlike, but to an extent which is sensible and legible, thus potentially appealling to adults.

      To give you a better basis for judgement, you can construct a mood board consisting of competitor logos. This will give you a feel for how others have established their image and a grasp of the overall market image as a whole.

      This represents the first stage of planning.

      Next is the composition of a mind map - brainstorming ideas based upon concepts and principle you observe in the mood board.

      A brand exists only in the minds of your customers. A brand is the sum of all the impressions a customer has, based on every interaction they have had with you, your company and your products. Each one of these interactions tells a story to your customers. If your customer believes that a product is new and innovative, then those attributes become part of your brand in that customer's mind.
      Branding is also a way to build an important company asset, which is a good reputation. Branding can build an expectation about the company services or products, and can encourage the company to maintain that expectation, or exceed them, bringing better products and services to the market place.
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  • Profile picture of the author toysoldier80
    A good branding technique would be to brand yourself. By establishing yourself as an expert within your craft, your able to effectively market anything related to your expertise.

    I would target both the young dancers and the moms. You can target moms by highlighting your expertise, awards, accreditations, etc you and/or your business has received.

    The fun part will be targeting the kids. You won't have to brand you or the business to much. Your able to make fun ads that kids would like. Maybe have a fun kids video or cartoons of dancers on your customer profile.

    I am just speaking as a customer and parent. If I was a parent of the kids and came across a new business that my kids would want to join, these are just a few of the things I would like to see as a parent.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Recommend you learn about the hidden dangers of Free, and what to do about your positioning problem, in this book: Dan Kennedy's No B.S. Price Strategy.
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    • Profile picture of the author KinneyJ2014
      Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

      Recommend you learn about the hidden dangers of Free, and what to do about your positioning problem, in this book: Dan Kennedy's No B.S. Price Strategy.
      New book release - No B.S. Guide to Ruthless Management of People and Profits by Dan Kennedy. The man they call the "Millionaire Maker," Dan Kennedy, who is single-handedly responsible for creating more millionaires than any other marketing guru, recently teamed up with the legendary artist, Vince Palko in his new book, No B.S. Guide to Ruthless Management of People and Profits

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  • Profile picture of the author lissa06
    Make sure the brand name reflects the niche.
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  • Deal here is artistic aspiration.

    The ballet gals get to shine; the fam gets to cherish the experience that follows from givin' their kids an opportoonity to do sumthin' real special.

    (tbh all boys get is martial arts an' shootin' stuff till it don't exist no more. That is why they grow up to be such assholes.)

    Key here is to demonstrate the deal for the whole fam.

    For sure the gals can't figure the cash themselves (less'n they dealin' drugs to alla the stoopid boys kickin' each other to death) but it is their enthoosiasm drives the deal.

    Subtext is ... "get me into that ballet class in MY CHOICE OF SPANGLY TUTU or ima behave abominably till you DIE."

    Natchrlly, diplomacy reconfigures this from Mom's POV as ... "mebbe this is a cool investment gonna max me PARENT KUDOS, keep MY Mom offa my back -- an' show the loser kids next door how inferior they are compared to my talented offspring, even though they are so much better at athletics an' math I secretly WANNA SMACK 'EM IN THE FRICKIN' CHOPS."

    So ... Mom PAYS bcs she sees clear benefit for her gals an' her fam -- an' she sees that bcs YOUR promo makes her gals' eyes LIGHT UP.

    tbh you got the same deal here as PONIES -- only way cheaper, an' without the risk of ADORABLE PONY dyin' at random or bein' stolen by a buncha BOYS for karate practice.

    What is essential for your offer to succeed is sum kinda figurehead behind the deal.

    Thing 'bout ballet is ... it demands expertise -- an' nowan ain't gonna trustya to dish the pro smarts on bustin' your toes on a killer EN POINTE roll less'n you got a Madame Le Terpsichore character makin' with the moves (or, at very least, wheelchair-bound an' unable to walk in a manner suggests she wasn't jus' eaten half to death by no croc or shark as a wayward teen.)

    So your brandin' gotta say sumthin' 'bout your head person that resolves into the quality approach to ballet on offer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Project Sniper
    the girls... because the moms want to see their girls in your marketing material. The girls also want to see themselves in your graphics. You don't need to tell the moms to buy. You just need to get the girls to tell their moms to buy. So make marketing material that appeals to the girls.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel1000
    You'd need to go after both.

    The mothers are taking their children their for x reason but if the child doesn't like it then they'll stop coming after a while.

    Think about those commercials that come on early on Saturday morning when the kids are home from school.

    They'll have a cartoon promoting cereal but still have nutritional facts at the end of the commercial.

    The cartoon is for the kids.
    The nutritional facts are for the parents.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ajobel
    branding is the key of product marketing .
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  • Profile picture of the author Expertwald
    Yeah, you would need to somehow appeal to both children and parents.
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  • Profile picture of the author karlmay1980
    Personally, I would go with targeting the children that you are making these products for. My kids don't want or like things I like and I sometimes think the things they like are a waste of money. But as a parent that likes to see my kids happy I buy them things they like and do that for them. That's what makes me happy, not the actual products, but the happiness my kids get from them things even if to me the actual product isn't something I would be attracted too. When I see the results of that, I will then also buy more in the line of the products without the kids even asking.

    So target the kids, they will convince the adults themselves as to why they want/need them. Adults will buy them to make their kids happy, that makes the adults happy and everyone is a winner.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    BTW did you look at the Abby Lee Dance Company website?

    (Amusingly, The Last Word from Abby goes to an empty page)

    But what she does seems to work, and to me it looks like she's mostly advertising to the parents.

    They hold the purse strings and they are often (as in beauty pageants) acting out their own fantasies using their children as proxy.
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    • Profile picture of the author SudiptoMaity
      Thanks, Jason for Pointed out Live example with us. Can you share any case study on it, if you have?
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  • Profile picture of the author dioni
    I'd say both but more for the kids/children's side since they'll be the ones to use the products.
    It has to have a way to appeal to both.

    We probably have to market on the aesthetics mostly on the children since that's what they're mostly concerned about and probably how comfortable and how good the quality is of the product (about second of their concern).
    Now for the mothers/parents, focus on price, affordability (probably) or how it's worth their expenses and of course the quality of the material (like is it going to last long?).

    Hope this could help!
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  • Just having a brand is not enough, but how the brand is big and global, and it's important that you have an idea and a good counterpart that can be expanded in each section and at any moment.
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    Keep both parties in mind Benjamin but: the children are using the product. Plus the parents visualize how the child would use the product, not how the parents would use the product. The parents are not doing ballet; kids are. Go heavier towards kids-needs, branding-wise, buddy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Philippeaqua
    So in Summary from is said here.

    #1 You need to brand yourself as the experts
    # 2 You need to deliver value = that the dancers will be promoted and what are they benefiting from this.
    # 3 Sell number 2 to the mums what will the child be able to accomplish with your promotion

    ( I did similar already = selling marketing to parents to get scholorships in US for promosing athletes in south america up to 18 )
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  • Profile picture of the author ehlee
    Your product of teaching and training ballet students must be excellent. Developing skills is a must, however, you must market and sell to parents. After all, it's the parents who are paying you.

    I have extensive experience with serving the children market. Having an astounding and remarkable program is a given. Everyone says they have it but do they.

    Good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve L
    Originally Posted by benjaminchurch44 View Post

    Here's the deal:
    We're creating a brand for ballet dancers, primarily. But many of the dancers are ages 7-14. So their moms are the ones buying from us.

    My question is:
    Should our branding be geared toward dancers, who the products are for. Or dance moms, who will actually be buying most of the products?

    Who would be considered out target market? Would our customer profile be the mom or the dancer?

    Any wisdom/insight would be MUCH APPRECIATED
    I mostly deal with B2B and it's typically best to target just one audience, but I know targeting two audiences or demographics can be done. Look at McDonald's, they have commercials that target adults and commercials that target kids with cartoon characters and toys (at least they used to, I don't watch much TV anymore!).
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  • Profile picture of the author affmarketer101
    What exactly the products you're offering for those people? I think the branding should be toward either dancing or the young.
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  • Profile picture of the author dave1802
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    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by dave1802 View Post

      everyone check out this site you will love it click the link below
      Reported as SPAM!!!
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      • Profile picture of the author Ember Leona
        whats the link I would like option to look at SPAM I hate moderators they have no life. --HP;
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        • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
          Originally Posted by Ember Leona View Post

          whats the link I would like option to look at SPAM I hate moderators they have no life. --HP;
          Then you'll need to find another forum. It gets nuked.

          The moderators are doing the rest of us a big favor. Sorry you don't approve and feel it's necessary to denigrate them because they do the job that they are asked to do.

          Amazing!
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  • Profile picture of the author kimberly91
    I would be more inclined to brand towards the parent but appeal to the child. Both will be looking for very different things. Parent will be looking at price/quality and reliant on good reviews or good word of mouth. The child will be looking at mostly how it looks and if their friends have it too.

    Ultimately for a product like this I would aim more towards the parent.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ember Leona
    The word branding was probably enforced by your educational curriculum... How 'bout establishing a trademark and what class is best for shirts logos. Also would a trademark be useful if I cannot afford a lawyer to enforce the stupid mark or look up trademarks like "lucasArts" using "Tess"

    If branding is applying hot metal to the arse of a mammal usually a livestock commodity -- should I put headphones on my but and listen to Leo Morachioli??
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  • Profile picture of the author BreezeMaxWeb
    Branding is all type of ways to establish your company
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  • Profile picture of the author skylerjones2018
    Custom audience will be Parents and Ballet School operators,owners,Directors.
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  • Profile picture of the author jobdollarr
    You can target both of them.

    According to us personally.
    Branding is like the introduction of your trademark name.

    About the advantages of what you sell
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  • Profile picture of the author Defmall
    My daughter did ballet for years and you can certainly target market both.
    If the little girl looks adorable...or dances with grace...both the little girls and their moms will want access to the product or service.

    I might have missed your link. Did you post it? I was curious to see what you offer...

    Good Luck!
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    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by Defmall View Post

      I might have missed your link. Did you post it? I was curious to see what you offer...
      PM the OP for a link. Posting a link to your site violates forum rules.
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  • Profile picture of the author Obermair
    Primarily target the children. If they are hooked or influenced, they will make sure that the moms are aware of the brand. I have experienced that with my kids in baseball and lacrosse. "The Easton MAKO will hit the ball 20 feet further!". A unique orange bat and all the kids were getting it. We got it as well. The thing is, you have to be able to hit the ball before a better bat makes a difference. But I digress. I have found (no study done) that the kids introduce the adults to the brand.
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  • Profile picture of the author simitch
    You must Target both moms for kid dancers and adult dancer too. in these if you target dancer related mom would more than good because some moms can be dancer by herself. so there would be chance getting customer would be high.
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  • A decent marking procedure is mark yourself. By building up yourself as a specialist inside your specialty, your ready to adequately advertise anything identified with your ability.

    I would target both the youthful artists and the mothers. You can target mothers by featuring your aptitude, grants, accreditations, and so forth you and additionally your business has gotten.

    The fun part will focus on the children. You won't need to mark you or the business to much. Your ready to make fun promotions that children might want. Perhaps have some good times kids video or depiction of artists on your client profile.

    I am simply talking as a client and parent. On the off chance that I was a parent of the children and ran over another business that my children would need to join, these are only a couple of the things I might want to see as a parent.
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  • Profile picture of the author Teguhsunandar
    Because a brand is an identity and branding activity will be related to the recognition of that identity to the community, then in the branding process, we must understand the elements that must be included so that our products are easy to remember. The elements of branding that we must fulfill are:

    1. Brand Name
    Name is the first thing that must be fulfilled if we will do branding. Without a name, the product will not have an identity that will make it easier for people to recognize.

    2. Logo (logo type, monogram, flag)
    In making a logo, pay attention to the uniqueness and image factors that match the brand. A unique logo will leave an unforgettable impression for consumers.

    3. Visual Display
    This visual display can be applied to product design, packaging design, uniform design, and so on. Using a visual display with bright or elegant colors will add imaging to a product.

    4. Use of Spokesmen
    The spokesperson in this case could be a co-founder of a company, mascot, company figure, or famous person who has been invited to work together to improve product marketing.

    5. Sound (thematic song)
    The presence of a song will complement the elements of branding visualization and make it more beautiful and more memorable.

    6. Words (slogan, tagline, jingle, acronym)
    Smart slogans always leave a deep impression. In the process of making a brand, use words that have cheerful and positive elements, are easy to remember, and are different from other brands.

    I hope this helps
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  • Profile picture of the author boomboombenoit
    I'd like to propose a different approach to branding from the others in this article. Brand for your core values.What kind of company to you want to be? What are the elements of your business that are important?


    Classic statement: You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.


    Branding starts with who you are as a company. Whenever I work with clients to build their brands, I always start with a number of questions:


    What is your Mission?
    What is your Vision?
    How are you positioned in the marketplace compared to other studios?


    If you're looking to provide fun and educational activities for kids for the joy of childhood - your brand will naturally appeal to children.


    If you're looking to provide educational classes designed to expand and grow the experiences of a child to include multiple styles of art and expression - your brand will naturally appeal to parents.


    (Note both have educational as an element but they have 2 very different approaches)



    Let's say you're looking to provide fun and educational activities. Okay, then you look at at the industry in your area, who is your competition? What is your competitive advantage? Let's say there are 2 other studios in your area that also provide fun and educational lessons - what is your competitive advantage? Perhaps all your instructors are former circus performers.


    Then you define your brand values, 5 to 10 single words that describe what you'd like your brand to be. Let's say: fun; silly; educational; enriching; engaging; unique.


    Once you have those words, I suggest creating brand positioning charts so you know how silly you want to be, or how enriching, etc.


    As you go through the process of the steps, the brand starts to take shape depending on your goals and the competitive landscape. It's you, but positioned in a way that will be effective compared to the competition. Can you start to see a brand coming together? This will ultimately create a brand that reflects you and your organization. It then becomes super easy to live the brand. It's easy because its you!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jamel Hassell
    You should market your products and services to the demographics you are targeting. Parents might have the final say because they are buying and that is about it. Think of it lik your parents buying you a shirt for yourself .The shirt would have to at sizes ,dimensions, certain fashion and material that you like.
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  • Profile picture of the author sanjaytechst
    Branding is one of the important aspects. The very first thing you should do advertise the brand name, brand logo and what are the benefits offers available in your brand and should describe the uniqueness of your brand when compared to other brands. Then only your brand will be popular.
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  • Profile picture of the author AltiusHospital
    The Marketing Practice of a creating a name ,symbol or design that identifies and differentiates a products from other products.
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    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by AltiusHospital View Post

      The Marketing Practice of a creating a name ,symbol or design that identifies and differentiates a products from other products.
      For those of us that don't know how to use a dictionary. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
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  • Profile picture of the author authorwithoutapen
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    The branding should target both the parent and the kids because the parents will be making payments for the products. Good luck
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  • Profile picture of the author detector
    I have only just seen this so i hope im not too late BUT what i would do is make the branding or logo have some feet on it starting out very small and then eventually going up to adult. This signifies the range of ages that they cater for and can be worked into any other logo ideas
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  • Profile picture of the author Benjamin Ehinger
    Originally Posted by benjaminchurch44 View Post

    Here's the deal:
    We're creating a brand for ballet dancers, primarily. But many of the dancers are ages 7-14. So their moms are the ones buying from us.

    My question is:
    Should our branding be geared toward dancers, who the products are for. Or dance moms, who will actually be buying most of the products?

    Who would be considered out target market? Would our customer profile be the mom or the dancer?

    Any wisdom/insight would be MUCH APPRECIATED
    Your target market is the one using the product. While the moms may be shelling out the cash, they are not the ones you need to convince to buy. Toy companies don't target adults when they want children to be the ones playing with their products. They target the kids and the kids get the parents to buy for them.

    Benjamin Ehinger
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  • Profile picture of the author Craig Issod
    I agree the the "both" and my 40+ years of marketing (24 online) backs that up. The Moms are sometimes heavily involved in making certain their children have activities. Some care more than others about the exact "brand" of the activity, rather they are doing so just to keep their child active and social.

    Kids over 9 likely have access to a device where they might look at youtube and other videos. It may be that the kids are "branded to" only after they are signed up, but it would retain them as customer and perhaps have them pester mom and dad to advance or use another service the dance studio provides.

    For example, we have a 9 years old that goes to dance classes. The same place offers an indoor pool and gymnastics. They also offer gym-based birthday parties - she had one there last week! They are fully booked up!

    The kids do obstacle courses and bouncing around. That appeals to kids of that age.

    Good Luck!
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  • The Branding should be towards the actual dancers, as they will be using it rather than their moms. The Branding should be wrapped in such a way that the Moms are appealed for their kids. The motherly caring, love and their kid's future prosperity with safety is put together in Branding.
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  • Profile picture of the author Smithy299
    I read book - Violet cow - it's about marketing and branding.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sportsfaya
    I think negative marketing is also a branding and I can provide too many reference on this if someone disagrees
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  • Profile picture of the author Sportsfaya
    Hey Smith,

    Old techniques are now part of books because the trend is changed now and new methods are applied.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ashit Vora
    Often times your customers are different than your source of revenue. In your case, your customers are Ballet Dancers but your source of income will be their Mom.
    You should target their Mom as they are the ones who will open their wallet.
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  • Profile picture of the author wilscannabisonlinestore
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  • Profile picture of the author MaryC1991
    My opinion is that you should definitely target those who will use the product, ie. little ballet dancers.
    The whole tone of communication and visuals should be appealing to them and address to them. If communication and the product resonate with the girls/boys, it will increase the chance that they will ask their parents to buy it. However, if you'll use social networks for campaigns, you should definitely target mothers as well, because at least formally that age is too young for social networks.
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  • Profile picture of the author DavidAllenNeron
    a great tool to help take some guess work out of the process and to give you a little bit of direction, a customer avatar could go a long way to help you out.

    There are lots of resources out there that explain what a customer avatar is and how to use it.

    I could be biased though because I also sell a product to help create one... but it really is a powerful branding tool.
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  • Profile picture of the author skibidi
    I guess first of all u need to keep targeting dancers aka children. While mum is in searching, she might partially think as her child, however real children wouldn't surf advertisments themselves. Quite interesting question, but I'd choose dancers)
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  • Profile picture of the author Karl Pfeiffer
    When it comes to design - now children's clothes are very similar to adults. Therefore, they will fit both categories.
    If we talk about advertising in social networks - there are children and adults alike.
    If a girl sees her suit on Jenna Marbles.
    What's up? Like mom and daughter want to buy such.
    Therefore, the answer is ambiguous.
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by Karl Pfeiffer View Post

      Therefore, the answer is ambiguous.
      You can say that again.
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