Newbies: Sorry to disappoint, but there is one word you've badly misunderstood ...

208 replies
I've just read yet another post from a single-digit WF newbie asking (or maybe it was begging) for someone to tell them how to make money easily online.

Can you spot the word that makes the request a total nonsense?

Can you see the word that has doomed this newbie to fail?

Can you comprehend the mindset that makes failure inevitable?

I'm sure you can.

The word is easily.

It might have been easy, easier or easiest.

Here is a wake up call: Internet marketing isn't easy.

Sorry. It had to be said. Making money online - and I mean real money, pay the bills and feed the kids money, consistent, do-it-again-next-month money - that takes effort, skill, experience and work.

It ain't easy.

At least, not in the way you've interpreted the word.

You see, when we 'experienced' folk say that it is easy we are misleading you badly. We don't really mean easy in the sense that it is so dead simple that an elderly dog can be taught to do it for biscuits. It isn't a self-working party trick.

When we say easy we mean that it isn't particularly hard or complicated, it doesn't require years of training and it certainly doesn't need the IQ if Einstein (thank goodness). But it does need consistent, focused, results-centric effort.

Complex, but not complicated.

Or to put it another way, work.

Sorry to burst the bubble.

Here's a radical idea. Why not go onto a forum for restauranteurs and ask them out of the blue how you can easily start a successful restaurant? Do you think they might laugh at you?

How about plumbers? Try asking a bunch of them how you can easily make a grand a month with no outlay fixing people's radiators? Do you think they might think you're a bit crazy?

Ah. you might say, "those are real life businesses - I'm talking about making money online."

SLAP! (I hope you felt that round the side of your head.)

What makes you think that a business (for that is what making $1000 or more a month is) online is any different to one offline? Business is business and the people who understand that and treat it with the respect it requires are half way to doing well.

Making REAL money online isn't a game. Okay, at the lower end it can be a paying hobby, but for those of us who support our families and save money for a rainy day, this is real life.

And when you are just starting out, it isn't 'easy'.

Over time it does get easier, but if you are a newbie understand this: you will have to learn some skills, you will have to spend some money, you will have to work some things out for yourself, you will have to stand on your own feet, you will have to (cover your ears and eyes if you are of a nervous disposition) ...

Work.


Martin
#badly #disappoint #misunderstood #newbies #word
  • Profile picture of the author TheBeatles
    Banned
    Well said, a lot of people stumble upon internet marketing through numerous ''make money online fast'' searches on google...and this frame of thought prevails when they start the IM game
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  • Profile picture of the author RGallowitz
    You know what makes me sick? That almost every single newbie thinks he can come online and get "rich" without investing anything.

    Yeah yeah...there are those who would argue and say you can make money online without spending any. Problem is...you won't make much with that mentality and practicality.

    It never is easy. Online marketing, online business......it's a BUSINESS not a hobby. Newbies, keep that in mind when you want to become "rich".


    Regards,
    Reinhardt
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    • Profile picture of the author susanm
      If it's not easy, then I want a refund on 95% of the IM products I have ever purchased. I also want to know what's so darn hard about turning "2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income" (see your sig). And I also want my damn biscuit! Woof! Er, I mean, meow.
      Signature

      Just passing through.

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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by susanm View Post

        If it's not easy, then I want a refund on 95% of the IM products I have ever purchased. I also want to know what's so darn hard about turning "2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income" (see your sig). And I also want my damn biscuit! Woof! Er, I mean, meow.
        My point exactly.
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      • Profile picture of the author Martin Avis
        Originally Posted by susanm View Post

        If it's not easy, then I want a refund on 95% of the IM products I have ever purchased. I also want to know what's so darn hard about turning "2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income" (see your sig). And I also want my damn biscuit! Woof! Er, I mean, meow.
        Ah but that's the point. Two hours of work might be easy for me after 8 years of practice, but it certainly isn't easy for someone with 8 minutes experience. My WSO teaches all the stuff I've taken 8 years to learn, but I don't say that absorbing that knowledge is easy or requires no work at all.

        It isn't difficult, but nothing good is ever completely handed to you on a plate either.

        Effort in = rewards out.

        Martin
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        • Profile picture of the author bluegold14
          Originally Posted by Martin.Avis View Post

          Ah but that's the point. Two hours of work might be easy for me after 8 years of practice, but it certainly isn't easy for someone with 8 minutes experience. My WSO teaches all the stuff I've taken 8 years to learn, but I don't say that absorbing that knowledge is easy or requires no work at all.

          It isn't difficult, but nothing good is ever completely handed to you on a plate either.

          Effort in = rewards out.

          Martin
          All I've seen online, specially from most IMarketers, is hype, hype, hype and false promises.

          Your signature is just a crystal clear example. If my understanding of written English is correct, it states that anyone who wants to make a six-figure income working only two hours a week just needs to buy your WSO. And nowhere can I read that "8 years of practice" is required.

          But I'm just a dumb newbie looking for the easy way...

          "And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?"
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          • Profile picture of the author Martin Avis
            Originally Posted by bluegold14 View Post

            Your signature is just a crystal clear example. If my understanding of written English is correct, it states that anyone who wants to make a six-figure income working only two hours a week just needs to buy your WSO. And nowhere can I read that "8 years of practice" is required.

            But I'm just a dumb newbie looking for the easy way...

            "And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?"
            There is no hype or deception in my signature line. It is merely an honest headline that says what I do. If you were to click it, the sales page doesn't claim that the process is easy - it simply says that it is easy for me now and that I'll teach the stuff I learned that has made it easy now.

            It actually says:

            "One of the first things I learned was that getting a list was the easy part. But getting that list to wait avidly for your ezine to arrive, getting them to read every word the instant it hits their inbox and then getting them to want to put money in your pocket - well, those are skills you have to develop."

            "Skills that you can learn too - and a lot faster than the eight years they took me to acquire!"

            "The way I write a newsletter can be done, with a bit of practice, in just two hours a week and those two hours can, when you've established yourself, make you a full-time online income. I can say that with absolute confidence because it is exactly what I do."

            It doesn't say that the road will be easy, but it does say that I'll guide you through the things I've learned that work.

            But I didn't come here to sell or defend my WSO - it is pretty much over anyway.

            As to specks in eyes, it would be wrong to think that just because I say we should be careful how 'easy' we make things appear to newbies that I am against selling 'how-to' products to them. Far from it - without a lot of how-to books over the years I would never have 'made it'.

            But we should be careful to make it clear that one-click work-free solutions are for the most part a myth. And what's easy for me might be excruciatingly difficult for you.

            Martin
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          • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
            Originally Posted by bluegold14 View Post

            All I've seen online, specially from most IMarketers, is hype, hype, hype and false promises.

            Your signature is just a crystal clear example.
            Sorry to tell you this but unfortunately you have picked
            on the greatest example on the net of a NON-hype marketer.

            Harvey
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            • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
              Agree totally with Harvey here. If you want to see the type of marketer Martin is just subscribe to his Kickstart newsletter. I get a lot of newsletters - mostly for research and other information - but I only read 4 of them when they arrive, or as soon as possible - and Martin's is one of them. (Paul Myers and Ralph Wilson are the others in the IM niche).
              Keep up the good work Martin.
              best,
              --Jack


              Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

              Sorry to tell you this but unfortunately you have picked
              on the greatest example on the net of a NON-hype marketer.

              Harvey
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              Mega Monster WSO for KimW http://ow.ly/4JdHm


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          • Profile picture of the author Sonomacats
            Originally Posted by bluegold14 View Post

            All I've seen online, specially from most IMarketers, is hype, hype, hype and false promises.

            Your signature is just a crystal clear example. If my understanding of written English is correct, it states that anyone who wants to make a six-figure income working only two hours a week just needs to buy your WSO. And nowhere can I read that "8 years of practice" is required.

            But I'm just a dumb newbie looking for the easy way...

            "And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?"
            Clearly you're not familiar with Martin's work. He has a fabulous newsletter that comes out several times a week and ALWAYS gives great information and tells it like it is. I've been on his list for years and can tell you he's the real deal. Unlike most of the low number posters on this forum. (And before you get on me for low numbers, note that I only post when I have something to say AND I was out of commission for over 2 years beause of a car accident.)

            Yes, he currently has a WSO, but generally that's not the case. He usually posts without anything going on the Special Offer area.

            His posting is right on the money. Too many people think they can make a fortune online without doing any work. Yes, it's easy down the line, but initially, you have to put in the time learning and figuring stuff out. I certainly have learned that myself.

            So before you dump all over Martin Avis, take what he has to say and learn from it. Because he's frickin' RIGHT!
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        • Profile picture of the author la dominatrix
          Originally Posted by Martin.Avis View Post

          Ah but that's the point. Two hours of work might be easy for me after 8 years of practice, but it certainly isn't easy for someone with 8 minutes experience. My WSO teaches all the stuff I've taken 8 years to learn, but I don't say that absorbing that knowledge is easy or requires no work at all.

          It isn't difficult, but nothing good is ever completely handed to you on a plate either.

          Effort in = rewards out.

          Martin
          In essence though they are noit being sold a blueprint or a business they are being sold a dream. As everyone who has ever made any money in this knows that it takes a lot to turn a dream into viable businesss, but would they even start out if they know what it takes.

          Most of these peopel have no conception thatm ost self employed people work harder than anyone else at least to start. As Martin says when you have been doing stuff for ages it is a two hour job but nay one of those fifteen minute conponents may take a newbie three or four hours
          La dominatrix
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      • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
        Martin, wise words my friend. Wise words.

        Too many people think IM is just easy as hit a couple buttons and there you go - and frankly sometimes IT IS just like that.

        But we need to get a higher state of consciousness to be that short. We need to learn, test, re-test, re-learn, re-test and finally succeed.

        Even with automation tools - the 2010 buzz - it's clear for me that only those who know hat buttons to hit will succeed - as always.

        If one has the machine but not the knowledge, he will fail.



        Originally Posted by susanm View Post

        And I also want my damn biscuit! Woof! Er, I mean, meow.
        lol, i needed that. Do you write cartoons? :p
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Easy is one of those words that has a hard time standing on its own. It really has no meaning without some context propping it up.

          Making money online IS easy - compared to laying sod in the Florida sun when it's 90F and 90% humidity. It IS easy, compared to schlepping trays of food and taking abuse for tips.

          On the other hand, making money online is hard - compared to drawing money from a trust fund. Or whining about how tough it is to make money online.

          Making money online is like any other skill. Spend enough time in properly guided practice, and over time your skills will improve to the limits of your innate ability. And like a miracle shot on the golf course, from time to time you'll exceed those limitations for a huge payday.
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          • Profile picture of the author robhud1
            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            Easy is one of those words that has a hard time standing on its own. It really has no meaning without some context propping it up.

            Making money online IS easy - compared to laying sod in the Florida sun when it's 90F and 90% humidity. It IS easy, compared to schlepping trays of food and taking abuse for tips.

            On the other hand, making money online is hard - compared to drawing money from a trust fund. Or whining about how tough it is to make money online.

            Making money online is like any other skill. Spend enough time in properly guided practice, and over time your skills will improve to the limits of your innate ability. And like a miracle shot on the golf course, from time to time you'll exceed those limitations for a huge payday.
            Great post! :twothumbsup:
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      • Profile picture of the author VinnyBock
        Originally Posted by susanm View Post

        If it's not easy, then I want a refund on 95% of the IM products I have ever purchased. I also want to know what's so darn hard about turning "2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income" (see your sig). And I also want my damn biscuit! Woof! Er, I mean, meow.
        That is pretty funny, a well written post with a good point you got across, but your sig is the root of the problem.
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        • Profile picture of the author Martin Avis
          Originally Posted by VinnyBock View Post

          That is pretty funny, a well written post with a good point you got across, but your sig is the root of the problem.
          No, your misinterpretation of what the sig is offering is the root of the problem.

          Nowhere in that sig is the word easy used. I do say that you need to put in two hours work though - and isn't it funny how many people object to that!

          Martin
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          Martin Avis publishes Kickstart Newsletter - Subscribe free at http://kickstartnewsletter.com
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          • Profile picture of the author George Wright
            Martin,

            And there you have the root of the problem, Martin. Interpretation of the copy. My first successful info product was met with rave reviews by literally 99% of my buyers. 3 out of all that bought requested a refund because it was, and I quote each request, "too much work." Honestly, it was EASY work. Just too much EASY work.

            George Wright P.S. I came to IM after 20+ years of carpet cleaning. A local government agency hired me to teach people on welfare how to clean carpets so they could get off of welfare. I had one successful student and business wise he surpassed me by miles. ALL the others dropped out because, (read in a whine) "It's too hard." Carpet cleaning = Spray on presoak. Vacuum carpet with a power sprayer attached to a Vacuum cleaner. (Called a steam cleaner.) There, I just taught you how to clean carpets. And, cleaning carpets is harder than Internet Marketing.

            George Wright

            Originally Posted by Martin.Avis View Post

            No, your misinterpretation of what the sig is offering is the root of the problem.

            Nowhere in that sig is the word easy used. I do say that you need to put in two hours work though - and isn't it funny how many people object to that!

            Martin
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            "The first chapter sells the book; the last chapter sells the next book." Mickey Spillane
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          • Profile picture of the author VinnyBock
            Originally Posted by Martin.Avis View Post

            No, your misinterpretation of what the sig is offering is the root of the problem.

            Nowhere in that sig is the word easy used. I do say that you need to put in two hours work though - and isn't it funny how many people object to that!

            Martin
            Oh OK....
            You Didn't actually use the word "Easy", so I guess you have complete immunity?
            6 figures working 2 hours, even if I was cracking up side-walk with a sledge hammer, 2 hours for 6 figures is easy.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
              lol I know Martin personally very well and I can assure you that he does make a very comfortable income from his newsletters. I assume that's what you were taking a swipe at!!!

              I'm reading this thread off and on as I'm busy sunning myself in Cape Verde otherwise I'd love to know whether the people bashing him have actually made a cent yet. I have a sneaky suspicion that he's crushed a lot of hopes

              Kim


              Originally Posted by VinnyBock View Post

              Oh OK....
              You Didn't actually use the word "Easy", so I guess you have complete immunity?
              6 figures working 2 hours, even if I was cracking up side-walk with a sledge hammer, 2 hours for 6 figures is easy.
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      • Profile picture of the author johnsamuels
        Originally Posted by susanm View Post

        If it's not easy, then I want a refund on 95% of the IM products I have ever purchased. I also want to know what's so darn hard about turning "2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income" (see your sig). And I also want my damn biscuit! Woof! Er, I mean, meow.
        Exactly.

        Newbies have not misunderstood anything, they have been misled.
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      • Profile picture of the author MattSteel
        Originally Posted by susanm View Post

        If it's not easy, then I want a refund on 95% of the IM products I have ever purchased. I also want to know what's so darn hard about turning "2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income" (see your sig). And I also want my damn biscuit! Woof! Er, I mean, meow.
        Well said! I noticed that link in the signature too! hmmmmm As a newbie on this site, I am not new to this world of making money online. But then again, I have friends who are in this field. Many newbies do not have that luxury and may be looking for friends and guidance. I would bet that everyone in this thread once asked the same question "What is the best way to make money online?" to someone when they first started out. My follow up question is usually, "What are your interests and what do you LIKE?" Get the newbie involved in making his/her own goals. Ever hear of "Pay it forward"? Warren Buffet routinely gives something back to the community (and not just $$$$), just like those who helped you in the beginning did for you. Who knows? Maybe you will have just helped the next internet billionaire...and he may just remember your kindness. Stay positive.
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      • Profile picture of the author rhj12345
        Originally Posted by susanm View Post

        If it's not easy, then I want a refund on 95% of the IM products I have ever purchased. I also want to know what's so darn hard about turning "2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income" (see your sig). And I also want my damn biscuit! Woof! Er, I mean, meow.
        I just saw the sig. LOL
        Signature



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    • Profile picture of the author bat777
      I beg to differ on your response that every "newbie plans to make quick cash" I am a newbie and I knew it would take several hours of research, reading.trial and error etc. I've done my due diligence for months and still haven't found a way to make it all worth the time I've put in to trying!

      So please don't categorize us all in the same sentence.
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris-
        Originally Posted by bat777 View Post

        I beg to differ on your response that every "newbie plans to make quick cash" I am a newbie and I knew it would take several hours of research, reading.trial and error etc. I've done my due diligence for months and still haven't found a way to make it all worth the time I've put in to trying!

        So please don't categorize us all in the same sentence.
        Yes, good point. I'm in that same category now . . . at first I believed the hype, spent the time failing and learning that it's not really like the marketing pretends, then started learning how it really works. I've been learning for a long time, putting in thousands of hours of work (mostly doing things that fail utterly, but, I'm gradually learning), still learning, and will get workable results eventually!

        Sure, one can complain about the hype, but that's reality, not much use in complaining really (although it can be fun!) . . . see things as they really are . . . ie. the marketing is very far from the truth, find out how to learn what really works.

        If any of the more experienced members wants to know what I find the biggest problem in learning . . . one buys a few courses, does EXACTLY what the course says, and fails utterly . . . then what??? One is already following the instructions to the best of ones ability, there are no instructions on what to do to improve when you're already doing what they say and it just plain doesn't work! I guess what the courses should say is . . . follow the instructions, then get onto the Warrior forum to find out all the things missing from the instructions, and all the things you've misunderstood, etc.

        I know it's a challenge teaching people to do what you can do. There's so many things that you do subconsciously that you'd forget to mention, or can't really put into words. So I know it's a challenge, and I guess one shouldn't really expect these much-hyped courses to really teach you what you need to know . . . what I am finding in practice is that one needs to ask a LOT of questions, do a lot of trial and error etc. like in any subject.


        Chris
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        PM me NOW for more info !
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron.
      Not EVERY single newbie is like that. HAve you met and talked to all of them? I think not.

      Newbies think they can get rich because marketers say it in their hyped up sales pages all of the time.



      Originally Posted by RGallowitz View Post

      You know what makes me sick? That almost every single newbie thinks he can come online and get "rich" without investing anything.

      Yeah yeah...there are those who would argue and say you can make money online without spending any. Problem is...you won't make much with that mentality and practicality.

      It never is easy. Online marketing, online business......it's a BUSINESS not a hobby. Newbies, keep that in mind when you want to become "rich".


      Regards,
      Reinhardt
      Signature
      "Perseverance is a great element of success. If you only knock long enough and loud enough at the gate, you are sure to wake up somebody"
      -Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    This frame of thought prevails because they are told over and over again that they can make thousands "easily" ... sometimes in the pajamas ... sometimes while sleeping ... even a caveman can do it ... and on and on and on.

    If marketers were honest about it and told prospects that it will require work, the lazy ones would just move on and the serious ones might buy. So marketers are deliberately targeting the lazy people who want to believe and want the blueprint for making money online with little to no effort. This is what they are being promised.
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Avis
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      This frame of thought prevails because they are told over and over again that they can make thousands "easily" ... sometimes in the pajamas ... sometimes while sleeping ... even a caveman can do it ... and on and on and on.

      If marketers were honest about it and told prospects that it will require work, the lazy ones would just move on and the serious ones might buy. So marketers are deliberately targeting the lazy people who want to believe and want the blueprint for making money online with little to no effort. This is what they are being promised.
      I don't think there is much deliberate dishonesy. When you have years of experience, stuff IS easy. That doesn't mean that acquiring that experience was easy - or even always pleasant.

      I completely agree that we are guilty of misleading newbies by over use of the word easy - I'm certainly guilty myself - but my point is that the meaning behind the word is misunderstood. It is only easy IF you apply yourself, learn the lessons and build your personal knowledge base. Oh, and sometimes spend some money too.

      So I guess my message is as much to experienced marketers to watch out for dangerous meanings to words and phrases we take for granted, as it is to newbies who have to learn to read between the lines.

      Meanwhile, common sense should tell anyone that if making $1000 a month was really EASY then everyone would already be doing it.

      Martin
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  • Profile picture of the author Kenster
    I think making money online IS easy ONCE YOU KNOW WHAT YOURE DOING.

    But getting to that point where you know what youre doing ISNT easy.

    I also think making 6 figures online IS MUCH EASIER than making 6 figures doing a "regular offline job" but again, easy is relative here. To be clear it is hard to go from knowing nothing about IM to six figures in a few months. Sorry noobs, its possible but it aint easy
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    • Profile picture of the author dizen
      Amen to that It's easy once you know the right way to do it. I found it through many trial and errors


      Originally Posted by Kenster View Post

      I think making money online IS easy ONCE YOU KNOW WHAT YOURE DOING.

      But getting to that point where you know what youre doing ISNT easy.

      I also think making 6 figures online IS MUCH EASIER than making 6 figures doing a "regular offline job" but again, easy is relative here. To be clear it is hard to go from knowing nothing about IM to six figures in a few months. Sorry noobs, its possible but it aint easy
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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    Nothing worthwhile is ever easy. I tell the newbies I coach that it won't be quick, it won't be easy, and I'm not handing anything to you on a platter. It's real work. Don't whine, don't bitch, just suck it up and get it done.

    Hmmm, maybe I shoulda been a dominatrix.
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Avis
      Originally Posted by TinkerAndPo View Post

      Nothing worthwhile is ever easy.Hmmm, maybe I shoulda been a dominatrix.
      Hey Tinks - with THAT attitude a grand a month should be chickenfeed!

      Martin
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      • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
        Originally Posted by Martin.Avis View Post

        Hey Tinks - with THAT attitude a grand a month should be chickenfeed!

        Martin
        A grand? Nah, I'm going for two this month. Nearly there, too.
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        • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
          Originally Posted by TinkerAndPo View Post

          A grand? Nah, I'm going for two this month. Nearly there, too.


          Yea, I know, should have finished reading the thread but could not stop chuklin', lol. The dominatrix part, GOSH, was I in for an awaking, .

          YEARS ago, I -sub-leased some creative space for my custom drapery business and soon learned that the daughter was a dominatrix in N.Y., charging $350 an HOUR (AND, that is about 15 years ago). What the #ell DID she do ???

          The mother herself, I found out, was a lesbian and continued to haunt me, and the whole thing ended up in a BIG disaster (no, I did NOT go there, lol).

          So, I guess, lazy noobs, maybe this is your avenue. lol (and NO, I am not being serious).

          All the best, Eva
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron.
      How in the hell can you coach someone and you're just barely making it yourself? You're still a newbie yourself. What kind of scam are you running?

      I find your "tough love" appraoch to be laughable at best.



      Originally Posted by TinkerAndPo View Post

      Nothing worthwhile is ever easy. I tell the newbies I coach that it won't be quick, it won't be easy, and I'm not handing anything to you on a platter. It's real work. Don't whine, don't bitch, just suck it up and get it done.

      Hmmm, maybe I shoulda been a dominatrix.
      Signature
      "Perseverance is a great element of success. If you only knock long enough and loud enough at the gate, you are sure to wake up somebody"
      -Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        The testosterone in this thread makes me wonder why any woman would
        want to spend an eternity with any man.

        Simply amazing.
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        • Profile picture of the author Joseph Ratliff
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          The testosterone in this thread makes me wonder why any woman would
          want to spend an eternity with any man.

          Simply amazing.
          ROFL....Steve, now I have to buy a new keyboard because I read your tidbit here right when I was drinking a Coke...
          Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author Habeck
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author ScottTMc
      Well said, a lot of people stumble upon internet marketing through numerous ''make money online fast'' searches on google...and this frame of thought prevails when they start the IM game
      Very true indeed, i dont think there is a make money fast option on the internet, its just somthing to lure people in to believe them
      Signature

      Please read the sig file rules

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  • Profile picture of the author CurtisN
    Originally Posted by Martin.Avis View Post


    The word is easily.
    The word is easily what? Could you please give me your personal email address and/or home phone number so I can get further clarification (and 6 months free personal coaching)?
    Signature
    Curtis Ng (blog) - Product Launch Manager
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  • Profile picture of the author Elmer Hurlstone
    Martin,

    Amen, brother, amen!

    Was answering a similar question posed by my two-doors-down neighbor a few days back.

    He's a bit envious because I "don't work."

    If he only knew...

    Elmer

    The obligatory PS. If the "Thanks Button" permitted me to actually say, "Amen, brother, amen" this post would have been unnecessary.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris-
    I am amused that all these experienced internet sellers complaining that Newbies think it's "Easy" . . . OF COURSE THEY DO, because that's what's MARKETED at them all day, by most of YOU!!!!

    A lot of the people complaining that newbies think it should be easy are the same people marketing stuff at them that makes them think it's instant, easy, free, etc etc.

    Come on, open your eyes! Ridiculous comparing internet biz to plumbing or restaurant businessnes . . . not many people making fortunes telling people those businesses are instant, easy, free to start etc.

    I am frustrated by how many people make money out of emailing lists of people with nonsense like "complete course on how to make millions from blogging" which turns out to be instructions on how to set up Wordpress. And then those same people complain that newbies somehow get the impression it should be easy! Sure, knowing how to setup WordPress is useful, but it's NOT all that's needed to make a fortune from Blogs . . . saying it is, is simply dishonest.

    If you want people to think it's work, stop telling them it's not.

    The title of this post should be "sorry newbies WE'VE misled you and made a fortune doing so, by marketing lies at you constantly, and now we act all shocked when you believe the lies we sell you"


    Chris
    Signature

    If you have experience with paid traffic, or have a mailing-list or social-media following (niches: business, finance, money, MMO, IM), I may be able to get you access to one of the highest-converting offers ever made . . . $799.65 sales per webinar attendee from one mailing-list.

    PM me NOW for more info !
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Avis
      Originally Posted by Chris- View Post

      The title of this post should be "sorry newbies WE'VE misled you and made a fortune doing so, by marketing lies at you constantly, and now we act all shocked when you believe the lies we sell you"
      Mea culpa.

      Well, by association anyway. I agree that hype drive marketing messages have helped create the problem. I like to think that my own marketing is less hypey that most, but I guess I'm part of the problem to some degree.

      But that is only a part of the problem. A far bigger component is the entitlement mentality that is so prevalent. The 'I want it now and I want it fast' attitude from people who don't want a business plan or a detailed step-by-step how-to manual - they just want a magic wand.

      Oh, and if you don't think this corrosive attitide applies to offline businesses, ask yourself why 90% of them fail in their first year.

      A lot of people would rather dream than work.

      Martin
      Signature
      Martin Avis publishes Kickstart Newsletter - Subscribe free at http://kickstartnewsletter.com
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      • Profile picture of the author James Clark
        Martin,

        I have been during this for a few years and easy is one word I would not use to describe the Internet Marketing Business. What worked years ago doesn't work anymore. This business changes faster than a politician mind.

        Jimmy.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Not that Martin needs me to rush to his defense with all these attacks
        against him, but let me add my own 2 cents to this problem.

        When I first started online I was clueless. I was probably a bigger failure
        than 98% of the people here. I made $28 in my first 5 months.

        I too blamed all the sales letters telling me how easy it was. But the truth is,
        as I looked back at my progress, there were 3 things that I did that ruined
        me at the start.

        1. I didn't take the time to REALLY learn the principles.
        2. I didn't stick with one thing long enough.
        3. I didn't put in the correct effort.

        Let me expand on that last one a bit.

        A lot of people will get a "how to make money" product and go through the
        steps, thinking that they are doing everything correctly when in fact,
        they are either leaving things out or doing some things poorly.

        I'll give you an example of a simple process that makes me a steady income
        on a regular basis. And when I share it, almost everybody here will agree
        that it's pretty common stuff and will even admit that it's a viable option
        to marketing.

        1. Find a product at Clickbank.
        2. Write articles on the niche and submit to directories.
        3. Write a review of the product and put it on a blog.
        4. Drive traffic from the article to the blog.

        Pretty simple, right?

        Do you have ANY idea how many pitfalls there are to this process along
        the way?

        1. Finding a product that converts.
        2. Writing a good article that gets read.
        3. Writing a good resource box that gets people to your article.
        4. Submitting to the right directories.
        5. Heck, just picking the right niche.
        6. Writing a good and convincing review without sounding like a sales pitch.

        Now, the product could go step by step through this whole process,
        telling you exactly what to do, but guess what?

        If you can't write, you're up the creek without a paddle.

        Is it the product's fault?

        What if the product actually included a whole book on how to write
        articles?

        Guess what?

        No talent...no results.

        Not everybody can learn to write.

        So when I put up a sales page that says, "This is what I do and this is
        what I get from doing it" I am in no way misleading anybody. I make no
        guarantees that you'll make even one dime. I simply say that by following
        these steps you have a good chance to start earning some money.

        And the truth is, you do. But it's not a guarantee.

        Nothing in life is.

        And that's the problem. That's what people are looking for.

        I can't tell you how many emails I get with people asking me things like...

        "How soon will I start making money with this if I get it?"

        My answer?

        "Nobody can make you any promises or guarantees. There are too many
        variables involved including how hard you're willing to work. If you're looking
        for a guarantee, look elsewhere."

        Personally, if I were to use that system I just outlined, I'd be making
        money within a week tops.

        Why?

        I know what products to look for.
        I know what niches to pick.
        I know how to write a product review.
        I know how to write an article.
        I know how to construct a killer call to action resource box.
        I know what directories to submit to.

        I can try to teach you all the above, sure.

        But here is what I can't guarantee.

        1. That after reading the info you'll become a great article writer.
        2. That you'll become a great resource box creator.
        3. That you'll become a great product reviewer.

        Ultimately, how good these skills become will come down to how hard you
        work at honing your craft.

        It would be like a pro basketball coach showing you every move that
        Michael Jordan has in his arsenal.

        Guess what?

        If you don't have the physical skills or can't acquire them, it won't matter.

        That is why I have said this a hundred times, even though so many people
        don't agree with me, I don't care how good an instruction manual is. Some
        people do not have the smarts to learn the material proficiently enough to
        be able to make it work for them.

        Does that make marketers liars?

        No. No more than it makes colleges liars when they claim that your child
        will get the best education there.

        That education is only as good as the effort the student puts into learning
        the material.

        Is there crap out there?

        Sure there is.

        But even I could take crap that has at least some value in it (perhaps one
        tip that is viable) and turn it into extra income because...

        1. I am able to understand the point being made.
        2. I am able to execute it properly due to my existing experience.

        As you do this more and more, unless you are truly dense, you will begin
        to find that it gets easier to understand and implement things, if for no
        other reason than through pure repetition.

        It took me 5 months to finally put a dent into my income. And even at
        that, I was only making about $1,200 to $1,500 a month for over a year
        before I had my next breakthrough.

        Now...with everything I have learned, if you took it all away from me today
        and forced me to start all over, I know exactly what I would do and it
        would earn me a quarter million dollars inside of one month. I'd outsource
        all the work and be done with it. I wouldn't piss around with things like I've
        been doing up to now.

        But I'm lucky. I don't have to start all over. I work about an hour a day
        now a few days a week and because of all the content and products I
        have out there (6 plus years of blood, sweat and tears) I can still make
        a nice monthly income without having to kill myself.

        It didn't come easy and it didn't come overnight.

        Those of us who understand that it takes work understand what I'm saying.

        Those of us still looking for that magic button will never understand what
        I'm saying.
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        • Profile picture of the author showpage
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          Guess what?

          No talent...no results.
          I have to disagree here. Talent is VERY overrated. I will always rather bet on focused effort and persistence.

          "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not. Nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not. Unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not. The would is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent." -- Calvin Coolidge
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    • Profile picture of the author bat777
      Chris-

      I want to THANK you for your comment on Newbies. It's 100% so true what you say. Too many trust others and sad but true that is a big problem.
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      • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
        It's may not be as "easy" as they want to believe......

        But, I wouldn't classify it as hard either.
        Anyone should be able to put in 4-5 hours a day and build a profitable business from scratch. Now that's 4-5 hours a day of actual work, not watching TV, checking email, facebook, etc....
        Signature
        100% Unique Sales Page Website +100% Unique Internet Marketing Product
        + Support! All of this, just $397! (PM Me For Details!)
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      • Profile picture of the author keyaziz
        I don't get why people are scared of something being hard. I enjoy being challenged - it makes it more interesting and fun.
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  • Profile picture of the author yommys01
    Great post man. I think everyone of us including the op ( right? ) have made the same mistake in the past. I remember when I first started, I thought it was going to be easy but it never was easy.

    It only gets easy when you have known the ins and outs of IM. The good thing is that you can be away from the computer and still make money but not until you have established your presence on the internet.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lady_T
      I've had some tough jobs in my
      day from tobacco fields to building
      actuators in a factory.

      Online marketing is by far the
      easiest thing I've done so far...

      BUT it's still work. And there's
      a heck of a lot to learn before
      you can get anywhere.

      Easy...HECK NO...better than
      working in a tobacco field
      HECK YEAH!

      So I don't complain. I do the
      work. I've lived the alternative
      and I like this job much much
      better.
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  • Profile picture of the author yourreviewer
    I think the problem comes with the mindset of "make money online". It sounds so attractive, doesn't it, I mean who wouldn't want to sit in front of the computer in their underpants and start "making money" The barrier to entry is almost nil but the failure rate is very high because as long as you treat it as a "make money" you are always going to chase the next ebook or course or seminar.

    I just love the way Earl Nightingale explained about how to become successful in life and business. "The only people who make money work in a mint" Below is the video for those interested.

    The Strangest Secret in the World Earl Nightingale, troymgmt.com, sgrclub, these
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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    the entitlement mentality that is so prevalent
    BINGO!

    It appears we have a winner, folks!
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    Sign up to be notified when Success on Demand goes live, and receive a FREE mindmap that you can follow to create and launch your OWN IM PRODUCTS!
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  • Profile picture of the author Aljiro
    Very well said.

    I personally believe "Starting" is the hardest part of "Anything". At some point you will be in the beginning. There's no getting around that fact

    I strongly agree with your message. I specially like the "you will have to work" part
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    • Profile picture of the author luvllyjublly
      I'm a newbie to IM in terms of earnings. I have a few live websites but they could be doing better. I have about 6 sites that are positioned at No. 1 for their search term ( domain name ) . But, they do not attract a lot of traffic or sales at the moment. I am not devastated by that, rather, I realise I must put in more learning to put it right.

      I realise it is not going to be easy to be successful in IM without putting in the "Hard Yards". I also realise that if I follow a blueprint from a successful IM'er , my chances of success will be greater than ploughing a lone furrow. I personally believe that there is a more important word newbies should be concerned with - ACTION - .

      You can posses all the knowledge in the world on a project, but if you take no action, you get nowhere, you stay at base. In today's world, not just IM there are many people that want things gift wrapped and presented to them on a silver platter. It is unrealistic to think this way and illogical. However, without these dreamers, many people in IM would not have a business or products.

      I still believe in the caveat "buyer beware". It is up to each individual to hold their hands up and say " I am responsible for the decisions I make". If that were the case, many of these moaning newbies would have no one to blame but themselves. Many people are not suited to self employment and the extra demands it makes of one's life. Not to mention the discipline required.

      There is a lot of hype, or should we call it "professional marketing" around IM. Where would the IM industry be without it? Hardly anything would be sold. I use the example of Martin's headline teaser copy.... Who Else Wants to Turn 2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income?

      Why does he write it like this? To get people to his sales page of course. Why does he need people going to his sales page? To provide a profit for his business. If he makes no profit, he has no business. So, in my view he is justified using that headline. I think it sounds more appealing to some, than perhaps... Who Else Wants To Work Hard Learning a Business From the Ground Up To Make A 6 Figure Income? But give Martin his due, he does explain on the sales page that "WORK" will be required for it's implementation.

      I, like many others here, have subscribed to Martin's newsletter for years. I have also bought quite a number of products through him.
      Why, because I know I can trust his integrity in the recommendations he gives. He has not disappointed me yet.

      The only other thing I would say at this time, is that the person who blandly states he just has to send an email to his list to make some easy money obviously views them as just a cash cow like so many of the so called IM Guru's. Even he has taken time to build his list, it is more than likely his success did not happen overnight. It's a bit like when Gary Player was asked why he was so lucky on the golf course.. His reply, " It's a funny thing, I find the more I PRACTICE the Luckier I get.



      So newbies, remember "Buyer Beware" and take responsibity for your own actions. We all make mistakes sometimes.

      Jim G
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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    Steven, that post should be stickied and be required reading for all new members of WF.
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  • Profile picture of the author ForeignProfessor
    Can it be easy if you have a good enough idea? I think it might be.

    I suspect sites like failblog, thereIfixedit, stuffwhitepeoplelike and other similar viral blogs were started with little investment and made money easily.

    If you have a good enough original idea I think it's possible to make money easily. 99.9% of people can't come up with an original idea good enough though.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
      Originally Posted by ForeignProfessor View Post

      Can it be easy if you have a good enough idea? I think it might be.

      I suspect sites like failblog, thereIfixedit, stuffwhitepeoplelike and other similar viral blogs were started with little investment and made money easily.

      If you have a good enough original idea I think it's possible to make money easily. 99.9% of people can't come up with an original idea good enough though.
      It's still not going to be easy. Viral blogs like those you mentioned are a one-in-a-million chance.
      Signature
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      • Profile picture of the author ForeignProfessor
        Originally Posted by TinkerAndPo View Post

        It's still not going to be easy. Viral blogs like those you mentioned are a one-in-a-million chance.
        I bet the people who made them didn't make half a million unsuccessful blogs first. They had a good idea, implemented it and made money. If one has a mind that works in this way it could be an easy way to make money.

        Of course most people don't have ideas as good as this and so they have to take the more traditional routes of affiliate marketing or creating their own products or some other tried and trusted route. People following these routes will indeed have to learn a lot and either work a lot or outsource a lot. For most people, it won't be easy.

        However I would urge anyone interested in making money online to have a good think about whether they actually do have any good 'ideas'. They just might.
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        • Profile picture of the author whitney01
          Banned
          [DELETED]
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          • Profile picture of the author Martin Avis
            Originally Posted by whitney01 View Post

            Very well said.. there are lot of people think that they can make money online easily. Or i mean they can find online job and in an instant they can earn a big amount of money. Well i think there's nothing like that. Even working online needs a lot of time. effort and patience so you can earn money and find a legitimate online works..
            A first post from someone who gets it! Welcome to the forum!

            Martin
            Signature
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            • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
              As the saying goes:

              The only place where success comes before work is in
              the dictionary.


              To succeed in any business requires dedication and hard
              work - especially in the early days when you're building
              up your knowledge, skills, habits and attitude around IM.

              Remember that EVERY single Internet Marketer started
              out knowing sweet fanny adams about how to do this
              business.

              And yes, that includes Frank Kern, John Reese and all
              the other supposed gurus.

              Everyone has to start somewhere but the most important
              thing is to get started on something - anything.

              It will take hard work, persistance and dogged determination.

              To think otherwise is naive.

              Look into the background stories of any successful Internet
              Marketer and you'll find a history laden with failure and
              frustration as well as success.

              Just because this is an Internet business, doesn't mean
              that the technology somehow magically comes to your
              aid and removes the need for work.

              There is no magic button that turns your computer into
              an ATM.

              The key I think is to choose ONE way of making money on
              the Internet that suits YOU, your strengths and your
              talents.

              Find the Internet business that fits you like a hand fits
              a glove.

              Once you do that, it becomes easier, but not easy.

              If you choose a business that matches your talents,
              things become even easier.

              Dedicated to your success,

              *Shaun O'Reilly

              P.S. I'm a keen guitarist and have numerous DVDs and guitar
              tab books that show me - step-by-step and note-by-note
              how to play all of the Jimi Hendrix riffs. It doesn't make
              me Hendrix though because the talent is missing from
              my DNA in that area - no matter how much I practice or
              put the effort in!
              Signature

              .

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  • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
    Steven,

    I think you summed this up very well.

    Let's face it, being in business is difficult. There are a lot more failures along the way than successes.

    I think the problem is the hype. New people starting out have to be told about the pitfalls.

    When I used to hire salespeople, the first thing I would teach them is that they will have a close rate that matches their skill level and technique. Maybe it's 10%, which means they will have to make ten calls on average to achieve a sale. If their expectation was to close 100 percent, they would probably quit before they succeeded.

    Some of the hype in internet marketing can lead people, not in the know, to believe that will succeed if they simply follow a particular formula.

    The problem is, there is no formula. Each niche is different and what works for one, may not work for another. Now, that is ok if you know it. So if a new person were told that they would have to test ten niches to find the one that will make them money, I think most would tolerate the process.

    But instead, many new people go in thinking it's going to EASY and aren't willing to fail. Failure is a required lesson in this business (and really any business) and it's really the best teacher.

    The best advise is to learn as much as you can so you can apply different approaches to different markets to reduce the number of failures. But if you learn just one approach, fine, but understand that you will likely need to keep on plugging away until that approach matches a particular market.
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  • Profile picture of the author Martin Avis
    Originally Posted by Scott Million View Post

    Sometimes we forget where we started...

    I was asking the same things when I first joined this forum and I figured it out.
    Me too!

    My OP wasn't to say to newbies 'look how much I know and how much you don't'. Quite the opposite. It was intended to say 'look how much you WILL know when you've put in the sweat and the hours and have gained some valuable experience.'

    I'm certainly not intending to bash newbies. Beginners in any business are its lifeblood. And as I say - probably a little too often - we are ALL newbies at something, no matter how experienced we might be.

    I get very quickly lost and confused at some aspects of Intenet marketing - even now - and even though I read books that tell me how easy it all is, I know that for ME it never will be. because my mind simply doesn't process the information.

    It doesn't meant that the writer of the book was lying to me by saying or implying that it was easy - it probably IS easy to him. Just not to me. I know that to master that particular skill will take me a lot of effort and some hard concentration.

    Martin
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  • Profile picture of the author Neromancer
    The law of reciprocity states that the more we give to others the more we get back from them. I like the advice here and we need to temper our own arrogance with the thoughts of
    others; we help them they help us back - who knows who the next big IM god (dess) might be?

    Guess what THAT person will remember our words to them. Good and bad and even
    instructional -
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
        Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

        Dang it, Harvey...you forgot to make it a live link!

        Tina
        It was deliberate.

        (Complying with forum rules)


        Harvey


        .
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by John Burton View Post

        This point of this thread might carry a bit more weight if your signature did not read ' Who Else Wants to Turn 2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income?'. I fear you've made a bit of a fool out of yourself.
        How is this making a fool of oneself?

        Do you know how many hours a week I now work to make 6 figures a year?

        It can be done.

        Notice he doesn't say that it will turn into a 6 figure income overnight. It will
        take time. Anything worth doing takes time.

        But you decide to read more into that line than what is actually there.

        Technically, you can make 6 figures a year without doing any work. If
        you have the money and a blueprint, you can outsource every little thing
        that has to be done and just sit back and cash the checks.

        How much work do you think Donald Trump actually does?

        Do you think he lays one brick for any of his buildings?

        There may be fools in this thread but Martin is certainly not one of them.
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      • Profile picture of the author George Wright
        Originally Posted by John Burton View Post

        This point of this thread might carry a bit more weight if your signature did not read ' Who Else Wants to Turn 2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income?'. I fear you've made a bit of a fool out of yourself.
        Martin did not make a fool of himself.

        George Wright
        Signature
        "The first chapter sells the book; the last chapter sells the next book." Mickey Spillane
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      • Profile picture of the author whitney01
        Banned
        [DELETED]
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        • Profile picture of the author George Wright
          Sorry whitney01,

          When you post general statements like that it doesn't ring true for those who have made money easily online overnight. However, I really hope you are able to do it someday.

          George Wright

          Originally Posted by whitney01 View Post

          You can't make money easily online. There are no such things that you can earn a lot of money in just the whole night. I remember there are lot of those softwares they offered in the net that when you buy and install the software to your computer you can find a good online work. I think those are all scams. So be careful to those also.
          Signature
          "The first chapter sells the book; the last chapter sells the next book." Mickey Spillane
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
          Originally Posted by whitney01 View Post

          You can't make money easily online. There are no such things that you can earn a lot of money in just the whole night. I remember there are lot of those softwares they offered in the net that when you buy and install the software to your computer you can find a good online work. I think those are all scams. So be careful to those also.
          You can.

          I made my first dollars online flipping one of those "TV On PC" offers.

          Here's what I did (and I had NO CLUE about IM):

          1. Grabbed an MRR copy of the software
          2. Made a piss-poor, but unique website design
          3. Wrote some even worse sales copy.
          4. Sold the "site" as a "business in a box" offer
          5. ...to lots of people

          Total time invested: 3 days
          Total cash returned: $3,000

          Making money IS easy.

          Making CONSISTENT money is where lots of people fall over.

          Steve
          Signature

          Not promoting right now

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      • Profile picture of the author prevmedone
        I agree that the ads could be a bit misleading and intentional at times, but people have to understand, "if it sounds too good to be true, it most probably is!"

        Should we as newbies or experienced really believe someone is going to tell you all the secrets of their trade for a measly $29.95?

        The truth is, Nothing is easy, life tells you that. Everything takes effort, some more or less than others. To expect an easy free ride just opens you up to be disappointed.
        Signature
        Click Here to Discover How to Get Free Search Engine Traffic for Life, and How to Convert that Traffic Into Dollars Using Autopilot Sales Machines.
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    • Profile picture of the author karlp295
      Well done to all those who have posted here. At last people speaking the truth and well said!

      I have more "experience" online than most. 11 years. It is hard putting in the hours of research and trial and error as well as testing etc. before the penny drops. Then after all that work - most of it very repetitive and lonely- success comes and then it can be termed easy but still in fact no. Never easy. Let the newbies know the truth I say!

      NO MORE MAKE 35,000 dollars in three days with no product, website, list or blog...NO MORE PLEASE
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    • Profile picture of the author pharris1
      This is a great thread. As an aging newbie I have to say I was lured into IM'ing with fantasies of making quick cash, the easy way. Once I dove in I realized that that wasn't the case. It became obvious very quickly that in order to draw a substantial income from this business it would take daily, consistent action to achieve your goals.

      I think the guy that started this thread makes a great point - he's been doing this long enough that running and growing his business will be easier for him than for someone just starting out. The concept of making easy money is relative. I don't know of any other business that you can be involved in for very little start up cash that has the potential to return big dividends, whether that is within a few months or a few years.

      I am guilty of wanting quick cash in the beginning. I now realize those that are successful at this and make it look "easy" have paid their dues in many ways to get where they are. That is good to know because is one person can do it - why can't I?

      It's inspiring.

      Peter
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      To Be Announced...

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  • Profile picture of the author DAS_Matt
    The better way to ask would be what is the SMARTEST way to make money on the internet. I firmly believe in the "work smarter, not harder" philosophy.
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    • Profile picture of the author hobbs1701
      Originally Posted by DAS_Matt View Post

      The better way to ask would be what is the SMARTEST way to make money on the internet. I firmly believe in the "work smarter, not harder" philosophy.
      I agree. A good philosophy as I am finding out as I start out on the first rung of the IM ladder!
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  • Profile picture of the author kurtlehmann
    You mean the ad lied? I can't just pay $1 for a cd that will show me everything and be making $10k a month right away..........
    Haha, thanks for the chuckle -
    Making money with IM is possible - but definately not easy. It takes and education. Just like anything else - you can either invest money (like college) or time (school of hard knocks) but to think you can pick this up over night is insane.
    Actually out of all the things I had to learn to make money over the years - IM is the hardest.
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    • Profile picture of the author achivement84
      Nice post, thanks a lot

      I agree with you ,Of course making money via IM isn`t an easy task at all, it initially require many skills to start dealing with the appropriate tools, even when you become harmonious with them you will still have to arrange your stuff , you will have to learn more and more concepts and keep learning to be able to work with the most advanced techniques and to achive good results, it will take many nights from hard work to just setup your business, but any way it still my favorit job.
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    • Profile picture of the author russ_hamel
      There's a story of a famous concert artist, tired after a long evening of emotionally draining performing, facing his 'fans' to answer the same-old questions and comments... again.

      One gushing fan commented, "I'd give ANYTHING to be able to play like you!"

      The famous maestro replied, "No you wouldn't."

      Just like an IM marketer, an experienced concert artist makes 'magic' by making his/her playing look so effortless and fun, that ANYONE could do it. But that very same concert artist KNOWS the YEARS of training, endless daily practice, sometimes 10-14 hours, IN ADDITION to the concert performances and interviews!

      Yes, Martin can write his newsletter in a couple of hours. But that is just ONE of the many things he does online. He has other products. He has marketing. He has networking. Just like a concert artist doesn't rely on only one song in his/her repertoire, the experienced and successful IM'er has a vast repertoire of income streams and tasks to practice day in and day out.

      As a private music teacher for the past 37 years, I get people wanting to be a concert artist in three months, too because they saw their friend make it look 'so easy'. After screening for aptitude, I give these folks the 'work' talk. They promise me they'll do 'EVERYTHING' I tell them. Sadly, these folks QUIT before three months time when they realize the true meaning of...

      how did Martin put it - (oh, yeah, block your eyes and ears if you are sensitive to strong four letter words)

      WORK!

      It's not only in IM - the something for nothing crowd is ubiquitous!

      All the best from Toronto,
      Russ
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      • Profile picture of the author susanm
        I did not mean my post to be an attack on Martin. I'm sure he is a great guy (really, especially as evidenced by all the people who have flocked to his support), and for all I know, his WSO could well be terrific.

        But it just seems all too common for people to tell you how easy it is while they're taking your money, and then, if you actually expect it should BE easy, they slap you in the head.

        And I'll admit it: I WANT it to be easy. Don't you? I appreciate a challenge as much as the next guy, but when you're struggling to put food on the table, you want the fastest, easiest route from point A to point B.

        Having said that, I actually do agree with much of what was said in the OP. Of course it takes work. Of course you have to learn some stuff and do some stuff, and spend some time and money and effort.

        But you can't have it both ways. Wannabe IMers are some of the most "desperate buyers" on the planet. If you are going to play to that desperation with the promise of "money for nothing and chicks for free," why would you be surprised when they expect you to deliver on it?
        Signature

        Just passing through.

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        • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
          [DELETED]
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            I'm gonna tell you all something that will surprise you.

            If somebody came to me and said, "Here, push this button and you'll make
            $1,000 a day" I'd do it in a heartbeat.

            Sure I'd love to find something "easy" that can make me a steady income.

            But until Merlin The Magician invents it, I'll just keep doing what works.
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          • Profile picture of the author safari148
            The Internet has the possibility of immediately coming across the roads of top gurus, and that creates a sense of having found the gold mine at last. But similarly to any competition in sports, we are only interested by the winners and focus on them, we know how many matches they have won, their records and with the help of some paparazzi papers even much about their private lives. What is harder to know about them is the many years they have trained, the effort they have conceded to.

            Similarly the IM does not say too often all about the initial training that is needed to use his "Even-a-caveman-can-do-this" opportunity. Flying a big airline is a "business as usual" for pilots, but it also was some many years of training and studying. Once it all is understood effectively, it's simple and pilots may even say that flying is what they do happily with no salary, as long as they are paid to overnight in hotels around the world.

            Learning the IM job is fun, and by taking it in one's own stride step by step makes it for an easy road. There is nothing more enjoyable than breaking through a barrier that was baring our way as we proceed, the results are immediate, and the learning curve never ends.
            Signature
            Kind regards,
            Robert
            A Mindset For Targeting An Arrow
            To New Horizons.
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    • Profile picture of the author steveblum
      The truth is you can still work your butt off and only get deeper in debt. It happens to thousands of people every single day in this industry.

      It's definitely not easy in most areas of internet marketing because there is so much to learn.

      That's why educating yourself, buying e-books, marketing books, courses, etc. is so important to building your knowledge about this industry.

      I have busted my tail for months at a time and not received one single penny back, not one! And I was spending a couple hundred bucks a month on education and programs.

      The truth is, if it doesn't work change something. Don't let is get you down because every time you fail, you take those experiences and grow into a better person and smarter marketer.

      It's the circle of life in the Internet Marketing realm. It's hard work and sometimes you're paid back in knowledge rather than dollars.
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    • Profile picture of the author GerryQ
      This is my first visit to the forum and I must admit Martin that you have stirred up a hornets nest. It is great entertainment whilst also giving great information an advice to Newbies.

      One question though Martin.

      At what point in your eight years experience did you conclude that it was a good marketing strategy to alienate your potential customers before they had even seen your site?
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      • Profile picture of the author Martin Avis
        Originally Posted by GerryQ View Post

        At what point in your eight years experience did you conclude that it was a good marketing strategy to alienate your potential customers before they had even seen your site?
        I realize that the question is being asked fascetiously - or perhaps sarcastically - but I'll attempt to answer it anyway.

        The world is full of three kinds of people (as can be clearly witnessed in this thread):

        1. Those who see critical advice as something to mull over in order to determine if it has something to offer or not.

        2. Those who see critical advice as a personal attack and reject it out of hand because, to them, it shows a lack of respect.

        3. Those who find the critical advice so uncomfortable that they attempt to ignore it by trying to divert attention away from the advice itself and on to the character or motives of the person offering it.

        In my eight years of experience I have found that the very best way of turning prospects into customers and customers into advocates is to be totally honest with them. That does sometimes mean alienating the second and third groups, but it also means that the first group usually ends up doing better.

        As a marketer I could make more money by choosing to target the second and third groups. There are plenty who do - we've all seen the sales pages that would appeal to them. But in all honesty, those audiences are really only looking for a pat on the head and a suggestion of something shiny and new to add to their ever-growing collection of ebooks and products that they will never use. Ultimately it is the ownership that is important, not the results.

        Then, of course, when buyers' remorse eventually hits them, as it inevitably will, they blame all the products and the people who promoted them as being scams and scammers, ignoring the fact that effort to impliment an idea was required, and not mere knowledge of what the idea is.

        As a marketer, a (hopefully) ethical human being, and a some-time mentor, I prefer to devote my attentions to the first group of people - those who will think about what I say and make their own judgements about its relevance to them.

        Funnily enough, those people tend to be the ones who succeed.

        My opinions are worth just as much as your opinions. Mine happen to come from years of experience of making money online, but they are potentially as right or wrong as anyone else's.

        But back to your original point: am I concerned about alienating people by giving them tough advice? The answer is no. If people are upset and alientated by the truth, then that's their problem, not mine. I'd rather concentrate on people who want success and not excuses.

        Martin
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        Martin Avis publishes Kickstart Newsletter - Subscribe free at http://kickstartnewsletter.com
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        • Profile picture of the author RM
          I'd rather concentrate on people who want success and not excuses.
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        • Profile picture of the author Gary Hicks
          Originally Posted by Martin.Avis View Post

          am I concerned about alienating people by giving them tough advice? The answer is no. If people are upset and alientated by the truth, then that's their problem, not mine. I'd rather concentrate on people who want success and not excuses.Martin
          This reminds me of what Simon Cowell often says on the X Factor TV show. His comments may sometimes be rude and tactless, but time after time you can see those contestants who have the right mindset and really want to succeed listen intently to his every word and care deeply about what he says. They know he knows what he's talking about and is just saying it like it is - albeit in a brutal way.

          Moral... If you want to progress in any field, be it singing or IM - one of the prerequisites of success is that you must be able and willing to take honest, well meaning advice and criticism. In the short term it may be upsetting and annoying, but in the long term it could turn out to be the most valuable chunk of free advice you'll ever get in your life. If you're not sure if someone's being honest and well meaning, just look at their work. I've read Martin's newsletter for years, and I can tell you he is one of the most ethical marketers you're ever likely to come across.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
        Why has he alinated anyone just because he's giving some excellent advice

        Curious

        Originally Posted by GerryQ View Post

        This is my first visit to the forum and I must admit Martin that you have stirred up a hornets nest. It is great entertainment whilst also giving great information an advice to Newbies.

        One question though Martin.

        At what point in your eight years experience did you conclude that it was a good marketing strategy to alienate your potential customers before they had even seen your site?
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    • Profile picture of the author nabil08
      Banned
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
        Originally Posted by GerryQ View Post

        At what point in your eight years experience did you conclude that it was a good marketing strategy to alienate your potential customers before they had even seen your site?
        Seeing that your sig file link is currently pointing to a page saying

        Index of /
        . cgi-bin

        I would also ask if you are using the very same marketing strategy

        Harvey
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    • Profile picture of the author JAIDEEP2959
      All the successful internet marketers today were newbies at some point of time.

      Many newbies purchase and read the ebooks but not apply the methods completely.

      Martin has given great advice and motivation to newbies.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
    I think what a lot of experienced marketers need to learn is that it is not easy being a teacher.

    Many people that write those How-To, Step-By-Step, guides have good intentions and are sincerely trying to show someone how to do it but showing and teaching are two different things.

    We experienced marketers need to understand that just because we know how to make money online that does not mean that we are teachers. Teaching is a learned profession.

    If you create a product that is advertised to show someone how to do something then before you launch it, run it through some test subjects first to see that it works.

    If John Q. Marketer has learned a new way to implement an old technique, he should be able to teach the old technique to the new marketer before expecting the new marketer to understand the new implementation.

    Or, state that his product is not for beginners. Unfortunately, since most marketers are not teachers or have ever been instructors of any type online or off, they don't even know how to evaluate their own product's level of instruction.

    We are seeing a new version of "Why Johnny Can't Market".

    Matt
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron.
      Now here is a post the needs to be re-read.







      Originally Posted by Matt M View Post

      I think what a lot of experienced marketers need to learn is that it is not easy being a teacher.

      Many people that write those How-To, Step-By-Step, guides have good intentions and are sincerely trying to show someone how to do it but showing and teaching are two different things.

      We experienced marketers need to understand that just because we know how to make money online that does not mean that we are teachers. Teaching is a learned profession.

      If you create a product that is advertised to show someone how to do something then before you launch it, run it through some test subjects first to see that it works.

      If John Q. Marketer has learned a new way to implement an old technique, he should be able to teach the old technique to the new marketer before expecting the new marketer to understand the new implementation.

      Or, state that his product is not for beginners. Unfortunately, since most marketers are not teachers or have ever been instructors of any type online or off, they don't even know how to evaluate their own product's level of instruction.

      We are seeing a new version of "Why Johnny Can't Market".

      Matt
      Signature
      "Perseverance is a great element of success. If you only knock long enough and loud enough at the gate, you are sure to wake up somebody"
      -Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
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  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    Martin, wash your mouth out with soap and water, you used the ban word for newbies. WORK.

    This might be a shock to some, but buying a product will NEVER, EVER make you money.

    Now before someone tells me differently, look at what I said, buying a product, not using a product, there is a huge difference.

    I said this at the warrior event, and we needed a translation from Elmer.

    Too many IMers live in cloud cuckoo land.
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  • Profile picture of the author zachary0611
    It is very hard earning money online. The best success I have had was starting an arcade site which still didnt produce that much money. I am convinced that the easiest way to make money is to blog about what you are an expert in your own personal niche then get the traffic and content first and then monetize it.
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    Professional Web Designers www.WebDesignBros.com
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  • Profile picture of the author ivana
    You know, yesterday I posted a good strategy thread for newbies. Explaining a very solid system. System that made me a lot of money, but no I did not flash them money in front of their eyes, I explained how they can do it, without investing any money.

    Now the whole thread was written because i had received 3 e-mails asking for help and since they did not have any money to invest, I explained how they can do it. And this really is an easy set up and really anyone can do this. Even advanced people can use this strategy.

    But you know. after just few comment I realized, 95% of people who read that will never EVER take action. They will jump on the next "easy money" and I do feel bad for them.

    and you know, that system could have made them their first commission tomorrow, but they will never know that.
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    • Profile picture of the author George Wright
      Ivana,

      Expect to get badmouthed for suggesting that we need to take action. Taking action is too hard. And then if we do take action and it doesn't work of course it's your fault.

      My statistics are general and not scientific but for every success story on a "method" there are probably 100 failures. This is true online and offline. More businesses fail than succeed. A successful Micky D's franchiser would laugh at a failed Micky D's franchiser if the failure tried to blame the training.

      Things are a little different online.

      George Wright

      Originally Posted by ivana View Post

      You know, yesterday I posted a good strategy thread for newbies. Explaining a very solid system. System that made me a lot of money, but no I did not flash them money in front of their eyes, I explained how they can do it, without investing any money.

      Now the whole thread was written because i had received 3 e-mails asking for help and since they did not have any money to invest, I explained how they can do it. And this really is an easy set up and really anyone can do this. Even advanced people can use this strategy.

      But you know. after just few comment I realized, 95% of people who read that will never EVER take action. They will jump on the next "easy money" and I do feel bad for them.

      and you know, that system could have made them their first commission tomorrow, but they will never know that.
      Signature
      "The first chapter sells the book; the last chapter sells the next book." Mickey Spillane
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  • Profile picture of the author mfleisch
    Wow.. great string fellow warriors. I agree with the original premise that making money "easily" is a bit overdone. That said, I do believe that focusing on a single process for making money online is ideal.

    What was so difficult for me at first was finding one course or process that I could stick with until it started generating money. All of these make money products have some value but as a newbie, who can you trust.

    Making money online takes a huge investment in time and sometimes money. What you get in return is an education. Apply that well and eventually you'll start making a consistent income from online marketing.
    Signature

    ==>Marketing Services and Consulting from Big Fin Solutions - Marketing Services with Bite!

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  • Profile picture of the author devilishsaint
    Yeah its never and need consistent time and effort. At a later stage it may look easier because you are well organized and really know how to cope with certain problems. But in start its difficult and needs lots of patience.
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  • Profile picture of the author davebo
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by davebo View Post

      4) Do you ever notice how many "Thanks" a thread like this gets because people like to get all self righteous. Steve W take notice (he he)
      Notice taken Dave. Have a nice day.
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    • Profile picture of the author George Wright
      Originally Posted by davebo View Post

      All right guys. Get off your high horses already.

      3) I look forward to this same thread in about another month.
      Hey davebo,

      I'll try to remember to start it since you are looking forward to it.

      George Wright
      Signature
      "The first chapter sells the book; the last chapter sells the next book." Mickey Spillane
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
      What kind of whacked out nonsense is THAT, Dave?

      1. Replace "Easy" with "Effortless", or better yet..."Autopilot"

      2. Wow, people work hard for their money? Man, I'm obviously doing something right.

      3. I look forward to reading the replies.

      4. Self-righteous? Waggers? Nah. Self-pitying, maybe. Self-indulgent...who knows. Self-obsessed - possibly. But Waggers is as selfless as they come.

      Steve



      Originally Posted by davebo View Post

      All right guys. Get off your high horses already.

      1) I don't think almost all (like someone said) people think it's going to be easy.
      2) I feel like these threads are not really for the newbies, but for people to hear themselves talk about how hard they work. It's basically an entire thread where people reword the original post about 1000 times.
      3) I look forward to this same thread in about another month.
      4) Do you ever notice how many "Thanks" a thread like this gets because people like to get all self righteous. Steve W take notice (he he)
      Signature

      Not promoting right now

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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by Steven Fullman View Post


        4. Self-righteous? Waggers? Nah. Self-pitying, maybe. Self-indulgent...who knows. Self-obsessed - possibly. But Waggers is as selfless as they come.

        Steve
        Self-pitying? - Check. (oh poor pitiful misunderstood me. )
        Self-indulgent? - Check (I love indulging myself...it's fun. )
        Self-obsessed? - Check (I am borderline obsessive-compulsive. )

        But self righteous? Please. I'm the last person to put myself above others. I
        have had more screwups in my life than Carter has liver pills. If I had a dollar
        for every boneheaded thing I've ever done, I wouldn't have to work
        anymore.

        As far as being selfless, sometimes. But there are times I can be a
        selfish SOB when I'm in a bad mood. I don't like being taken advantage of
        and when I am, I get flat out hostile and I'll be the first to admit it.

        But you treat me fairly and I'll give you the shirt off my back. I'm not going
        to get all self-indulgent now and talk about all the selfless things I've
        done in my life because quite frankly, aside from it being in poor taste, it's
        none of anybody's business.

        The people who I have done things for, gone out of my way for, they
        know who they are and what kind of person I am.

        The rest...doesn't matter what they think. I'm not here to impress them.

        And for the record, I have met some amazingly selfless people here. People
        who, when I had a serious problem, came to my rescue, whether it was
        a technical problem, hackers or whatever. I don't forget the people who
        have had my back. I won't name names because that would be in poor
        taste too. But they know who they are and I thank them sincerely.

        Steve, as for Dave's comment to me, 10 months ago I would have
        exploded and caused a scene because I let everybody push my buttons,
        as you are all too aware.

        Today, I flat out don't care.

        See, in the grand scheme of things, one person's opinion of me doesn't
        really amount to a hill of beans in this vast universe.

        And if this all sounds terribly melodramatic (something else about me you
        forgot to mention) then good.

        Some things shouldn't change.

        As a famous singer once said, "I am what I am."

        Boy that felt good!
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


          Boy that felt good!
          Steve,

          You're a diamond. You know that?

          We know that.

          Steve
          Signature

          Not promoting right now

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    • Profile picture of the author Ron.
      You nailed it!



      Originally Posted by davebo View Post

      All right guys. Get off your high horses already.

      1) I don't think almost all (like someone said) people think it's going to be easy.
      2) I feel like these threads are not really for the newbies, but for people to hear themselves talk about how hard they work. It's basically an entire thread where people reword the original post about 1000 times.
      3) I look forward to this same thread in about another month.
      4) Do you ever notice how many "Thanks" a thread like this gets because people like to get all self righteous. Steve W take notice (he he)
      Signature
      "Perseverance is a great element of success. If you only knock long enough and loud enough at the gate, you are sure to wake up somebody"
      -Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Collard
    Wow - a lot of comments here, and I agree with most of them, especially asking "WHAT IS THE SMARTEST WAY TO MAKE MONEY ONLINE"

    Anything worth getting is going to take some time and effort. I started IM about 18 months ago, and only in the past few months I have been able to say that I'm really starting to turn over a decent passive income.
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  • Profile picture of the author HomeComputerGames
    I must admit that I have never pulled my back or fallen off of a ladder while working with my online businesses. So in that respect it is easier to make money online. But mental work is an entirely different issue.

    There are so many facets to the Internet today that I believe many just get overwhelmed by it all. Website develoment, article marketing, blogs, social networking, digg, Google, SEO, SERPs, PR, Google penalties, Adsense, adwords, facebook, backlinks, dofollow, white hat, black hat, and on and on with ever increasing tasks that I believe just simply overwhelm the masses that look at the overall picture.
    None of these items are hard on their own, but mass them all together and they appear to be a very large if not impossible project.

    I also think a lot of newbs and experienced turn the word "tedious" into the bad form of the word "Work". Some of this stuff is just plain boring so it gets procrastinated on a daily basis. "Link Building?!..uggg.....perhaps tomorrow...I'll check out warrior forum and see if they have come up with a new way so I don't have to do this"

    This then backs up on them and they now have to work very hard to get caught up. All very simple but all very tedious.
    Many seeing this just give up and move onto something else with less work or want to start again to keep on top of these items the next time around.

    The fact is, if you cannot afford to outsource some work then you must put in sweat equity.

    Another problem I see is so many people go for the Very Large Niches. Yes there is good money in them but that means there is also companies involved in the niche that can hire writers, SEO, developers, and so on.

    So once a person figures out that they must battle a billion dollar company they just toss up their hands and ask how they can compete against such large entities. And most often they cannot compete with their limited knowledge. So now they must learn. And for many that is hard work in itself.

    I guess in some aspects working with the Internet is both hard and easy at the same time while being as unpredictable as the Google SERPs.
    Signature

    yes, I am....

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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    Anyone who has seen any of my stuff has no doubt seen this, but I'll repeat it here.

    "Affiliate marketing is not a game; Don't mistake it for one. To succeed you must be willing to do what your competition is unwilling or unable to do."

    The problem is that a lot of noobs want to do less than their competition does and yet earn more. There is some faulty logic there.
    Signature

    I'll help you create a reputation-building evergreen product in any niche and launch it successfully!
    Check it out here.

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  • Profile picture of the author Slin
    Good post, honestly nothing to add, just saying that this took me awhile to learn

    Fortunately i found I love this work.
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  • Profile picture of the author infoshot
    Man, talk about a can of worms.
    Signature
    Champion of Simple and Easy
    http://successwithkimberly.com
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  • Profile picture of the author hotftuna
    Success in IM comes from knowledge based on experience, and resources that are developed over time.

    For many, carefully cultivated email lists are there resource. For me it is a handful of quality directories and repeat customers.

    How can you offer a newbie looking for a tip either your hard earned resources or knowledge based on (the newbie's) experience?
    Signature
    HeDir.com ranks #1 for "human edited web directory"


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  • Profile picture of the author lina75
    All I want is a shorter learning curve, a step by step guide that teaches, not telling what to do. As a newbie I also know how to make 3K a month: write 10 articles a day equaling 300 a month, choose 5-10 niches and post it to ezine, after that post to several directories, but if you want to be more effective, rewrite the article then post it to directories. Once you're done go to socialmarker and bookmark all your articles.
    After a month those products that sells, create backlinks by creating free websites or blogs pointing to that product website.

    If you want more revenue, add adsense to your site or you can even add some CPA polls to the site that are pulling in the traffic. so you have 3 source of income there.

    I know this thread was started because of the question I posted- Some of you might have earn so much money that you forgot your roots on how you got started and becomes critical of your past.
    Some earned their status the hard way so they expect everybody to follow their path.

    My thread say's show me how to make $1000 online the easy way, I never say $10,000 or more. I just want to make $1000 that's it. Put it this way- all of you experienced warriors that make tons of money are like officers, executives or CEO's and I am someone who just ask around: do you know how I can make $1000 dollars so that I can at least have some joy in my life...I don't want to be like you-Because i know the learning curve is steep.
    In the real world...sure there is way, you can be a rubbish collector or tea lady.

    So on the online world I am sure there is a way too, I was hoping for that way.
    At first I want to be like you...those Executive, CEOs so I bought WSOs, Ebooks,join membership site but the learning curve is so steep and many manual never really teaches you, they just tells you how to do it and some even tells you to find out yourself on you tube and yet claim ito be newbie friendly.

    Sorry just venting out my frustration.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by lina75 View Post

      All I want is a shorter learning curve, a step by step guide that teaches, not telling what to do. As a newbie I also know how to make 3K a month: write 10 articles a day equaling 300 a month, choose 5-10 niches and post it to ezine, after that post to several directories, but if you want to be more effective, rewrite the article then post it to directories. Once you're done go to socialmarker and bookmark all your articles.
      After a month those products that sells, create backlinks by creating free websites or blogs pointing to that product website.

      If you want more revenue, add adsense to your site or you can even add some CPA polls to the site that are pulling in the traffic. so you have 3 source of income there.

      I know this thread was started because of the question I posted- Some of you might have earn so much money that you forgot your roots on how you got started and becomes critical of your past.
      Some earned their status the hard way so they expect everybody to follow their path.

      My thread say's show me how to make $1000 online the easy way, I never say $10,000 or more. I just want to make $1000 that's it. Put it this way- all of you experienced warriors that make tons of money are like officers, executives or CEO's and I am someone who just ask around: do you know how I can make $1000 dollars so that I can at least have some joy in my life...I don't want to be like you-Because i know the learning curve is steep.
      In the real world...sure there is way, you can be a rubbish collector or tea lady.

      So on the online world I am sure there is a way too, I was hoping for that way.
      At first I want to be like you...those Executive, CEOs so I bought WSOs, Ebooks,join membership site but the learning curve is so steep and many manual never really teaches you, they just tells you how to do it and some even tells you to find out yourself on you tube and yet claim ito be newbie friendly.

      Sorry just venting out my frustration.

      Lina, you say that there must be a way to make $1,000 easily.

      Based on what?

      Because that's what YOU want to believe?

      Please show me evidence that supports your feeling this way.

      This is no different from me saying, "I know there has to be a way that I
      can get a song of mine recorded by a major or even independent label."

      Yes, I am a songwriter. I have been writing songs seriously for over 25 years.

      I have YET to get one of my songs recorded.

      Now, I have been told why. I have been shown specifically what I am
      doing wrong and what I have to change. It involves a lot of work on MY
      part. And I'm not talking about even having a career as a songwriter or
      having a hit record or a Grammy Award winner.

      I'm talking about having one lousy song recorded.

      Just because I want to believe there has to be an easy way for that to
      happen doesn't mean that one exists, not that I do believe that. I'm just
      using this as an example.

      Wanting something or believing something doesn't make it so.

      Having said that, you want to make $1,000 without having to sell anything
      at all? You won't even need a website or anything.

      Write 200 articles and sell them for $5 a piece.

      There's your $1,000.

      Want to make more?

      Write more articles.

      I started out as a freelancer. I was a lousy marketer. Couldn't do squat.
      Finally I stumbled onto the freelance market, saw I had a talent for writing
      and jumped on it.

      Then I wrote my first book on how to break into freelancing.

      And the rest was history.

      Anyway, there you have it...the easiest way I know of to make $1,000.

      Sell 200 articles for $5 a piece.

      Or sell 500 articles for $2 a piece. At $2, you'll have tons of people begging
      you to write for them.
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    • Profile picture of the author dean7227
      Originally Posted by lina75 View Post

      All I want is a shorter learning curve, a step by step guide that teaches, not telling what to do. As a newbie I also know how to make 3K a month: write 10 articles a day equaling 300 a month, choose 5-10 niches and post it to ezine, after that post to several directories, but if you want to be more effective, rewrite the article then post it to directories. Once you're done go to socialmarker and bookmark all your articles.
      After a month those products that sells, create backlinks by creating free websites or blogs pointing to that product website.

      If you want more revenue, add adsense to your site or you can even add some CPA polls to the site that are pulling in the traffic. so you have 3 source of income there.

      I know this thread was started because of the question I posted- Some of you might have earn so much money that you forgot your roots on how you got started and becomes critical of your past.
      Some earned their status the hard way so they expect everybody to follow their path.

      My thread say's show me how to make $1000 online the easy way, I never say $10,000 or more. I just want to make $1000 that's it. Put it this way- all of you experienced warriors that make tons of money are like officers, executives or CEO's and I am someone who just ask around: do you know how I can make $1000 dollars so that I can at least have some joy in my life...I don't want to be like you-Because i know the learning curve is steep.
      In the real world...sure there is way, you can be a rubbish collector or tea lady.

      So on the online world I am sure there is a way too, I was hoping for that way.
      At first I want to be like you...those Executive, CEOs so I bought WSOs, Ebooks,join membership site but the learning curve is so steep and many manual never really teaches you, they just tells you how to do it and some even tells you to find out yourself on you tube and yet claim ito be newbie friendly.

      Sorry just venting out my frustration.
      I can understand your frustration as I've been there myself and even though I consider myself a newbie, I am willing to guide you by showing the path that you need to take, the person and the team that will be able to help you in any situation that may arise, so that you can make the income you desired.

      Being frustrated is fine, just snap out of it fast and know that someone will show you the way. I believe there are others too in this forum that is willing to take you by hand and make the income you desired. I PM you the details.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
    As someone who has been a subscriber of Martin's newsletter for years and also as someone who has bought and used many of Martin's products I feel that I can make a statement based on personal first hand experience.

    You guys who are taking jabs at Martin because of his sig are way off base. If you have not purchased any of his products or read anything by him other than this thread, you are not in a position to judge him.

    As a customer I can tell you that Martin has never used deceit, shifty cleverness, borderline unethical behavior, or been misleading in any way. Quite the contrary.

    If you have ever read any of his ebooks, reports, or newsletter you too would believe that Martin is nothing short of sincere and genuinely wants to see you succeed.

    You can have whatever opinion you want about this thread and debate all night if you want to but you have no personal knowledge of his products so to take the shots that you are taking about his sig just come off as low blows.

    Matt
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexissalaam
    Thanks Martin

    This needed to be said there is no magic button there's
    research, research and even more research and just when
    you've think you've nailed it here comes some more research.

    Every marketer needs to understand even though we're not
    in a traditional brick and mortar business there is still just as
    much work not to mention carpal tunnel.

    The IM business is a real business and needs to be treated as such
    that means putting the in time and the money, you dont need much money
    in the beginning like a traditional business, but you still have to be in the
    same mindset that you're going to do what ever you have to to make it
    work, so hop to it and get to work.
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  • Profile picture of the author tremayne
    Originally Posted by Martin.Avis View Post

    Sorry. It had to be said. Making money online - and I mean real money, pay the bills and feed the kids money, consistent, do-it-again-next-month money - that takes effort, skill, experience and work.

    It ain't easy.

    Martin
    It's not just the work; you have to have the guts to stick with it when the going gets tough. Too many people throw up their hands and say: "Oh, that internet stuff is just a scam. No one make any money!"

    Well, that's just not true - but it ain't easy!

    Someone makming a million in 24 hours makes it sound as if it's easy - but what went into the preparation beforehand?

    I have spend four years on a project that I am convinced will be successful. The fact that it is not successful now is not the Internet's fault; it is mine.

    You want easier (still not easy): stick to what you already know then hire experts to help you in fields you don't know. Had I done that, my product would have been out and selling well in 6 months not four years.

    Even now, the marketing and presentation side is about to be completely revamped - this time by proven experts who have spent years learning what I currently do not know well enough (obviously).

    But you can't afford to hire experts, you say? Would you sympathize with anyone who told you he couldn't afford to buy a MacDonald's franchise? There are people who tell rookies it costs nothing to get into this business. Not true!

    If you know nothing, you will need to learn. Not only does that cost time, it costs money, perhaps lots of it. I have probably spent (and misspent) $30,000 over the past four years. I have "made" less that $1,000!

    But I have strong confidence in the product I offer. I know it is the best on the market for my target audience. So why aren't I fighting buyers off at the door? Because there are precious few of them. Is that their fault? No, it is mine. Something I am doing is not being done well enough.

    You can have the finest product in the world and it will stay on the shelf, unrecognized and unloved, without excellent marketing.

    I have tried to earn marketing for four years - along with website design, sales copy writing, innumerable software programs, and enough PDF courses to reach the ceiling and beyond. I have worded an average of 100 hours every week, 7 days a week except Christmas Day. My only 'outings' have been to church.

    Am I sorry for myself? Not in the least. I know far more than I did when I started and I am that much closer to success.

    Having said all that, we should not be too hard on newbies. We all remember the days of being lost and snowed under by the welter of information, not knowing which way to turn, yet seeing almost every week people turning out $1 million products as apparently easily as sausages from a machine.

    It is small wonder they look to us for the easy answers they are sure must be out there somewhere if onloy some kind person would give them the key to the magic box.

    The kindest thing we can do for them is, as Martin did, let them know there ain't no free lunch. They face millions of competitors and their first task is to make themselves strong enough to take them on.

    Sydney
    Signature

    CEO
    Wealthy Investor Limited
    http://wealthyinvestorweekly.com

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    • Profile picture of the author johnsamuels
      Originally Posted by tremayne View Post

      Having said all that, we should not be too hard on newbies. We all remember the days of being lost and snowed under by the welter of information, not knowing which way to turn, yet seeing almost every week people turning out $1 million products as apparently easily as sausages from a machine.

      It is small wonder they look to us for the easy answers they are sure must be out there somewhere if onloy some kind person would give them the key to the magic box.

      The kindest thing we can do for them is, as Martin did, let them know there ain't no free lunch. They face millions of competitors and their first task is to make themselves strong enough to take them on.

      Sydney
      I can agree with some of that, but in all seriousness Martin's thread title and general tone was very poorly chosen.

      If it had been something along the lines of "Guys don't give up, even though it is not as easy as all the IM books promised it would be, you can still succeed if you put the work in" then I would be far more accepting.

      But it was not. Those new to IM have not 'badly misunderstood' any word, unless Martin means that when an IM guru says 'easy' you should actually take that to mean hard. Newbies have not misunderstood anything, they have been misled by hundreds upon thousands of ebooks and videos, overselling on promises yet under delivering on results.

      There are obvious exceptions to the above statement, but it works as a general rule. At the extreme end of the scale we have people in here selling WSOs about methods they have never actually used themselves, let alone turned a profit from.
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      • Profile picture of the author George Wright
        Martin's Title was brilliant from the stand point of starting a lively discussion. Threads on the same subject with lesser titles have died a quick and silent death. It attracted a lively discussion with a lot of great points made for different sides, including yours johnsamuels.

        Everyone is entitled to their opinion and in this discussion mine is that titles like Martins and the subsequent posts bring to surface two mentalities. Winners and (not losers ) Victims. Be a winner or be a victim. It's a choice.

        Poor me or Me the Winner. Personally, I've never liked the "Why me" and the "Poor Me" feeling.

        George Wright

        Originally Posted by johnsamuels View Post

        I can agree with some of that, but in all seriousness Martin's thread title and general tone was very poorly chosen.

        If it had been something along the lines of "Guys don't give up, even though it is not as easy as all the IM books promised it would be, you can still succeed if you put the work in" then I would be far more accepting.

        But it was not. Those new to IM have not 'badly misunderstood' any word, unless Martin means that when an IM guru says 'easy' you should actually take that to mean hard. Newbies have not misunderstood anything, they have been misled by hundreds upon thousands of ebooks and videos, overselling on promises yet under delivering on results.

        There are obvious exceptions to the above statement, but it works as a general rule. At the extreme end of the scale we have people in here selling WSOs about methods they have never actually used themselves, let alone turned a profit from.
        Signature
        "The first chapter sells the book; the last chapter sells the next book." Mickey Spillane
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        • Profile picture of the author johnsamuels
          Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

          Martin's Title was brilliant from the stand point of starting a lively discussion. Threads on the same subject with lesser titles have died a quick and silent death. It attracted a lively discussion with a lot of great points made for different sides, including yours johnsamuels.

          Everyone is entitled to their opinion and in this discussion mine is that titles like Martins and the subsequent posts bring to surface two mentalities. Winners and (not losers ) Victims. Be a winner or be a victim. It's a choice.

          Poor me or Me the Winner. Personally, I've never liked the "Why me" and the "Poor Me" feeling.

          George Wright
          You do have a point there, and attracting eyeballs is what IM is all about

          Funny sig btw.
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          • Profile picture of the author proveitworks
            I have know Martin for several years...he is in my opinion someone who calls a spade a spade and knows what he is talking about.

            Its about action........if I had followed his advice 4 years ago I would have made a fortune.

            I didn't - I thought I knew better......13 million web pages in google then they were all hacked off the face of the earth...Imagine if I had had an e-mail sign up on every page.

            I didn't- why? Because I didn't know how to run and operate an efficient e-mail newsletter that was NOT niched.....

            Martin does

            It is significant many IM seem to have bought his course because they are now following his approach.

            IF you study his course you WILL make that sort of money in that sort of time irrespective of fads...ranking....seo etc etc.

            Its about action.

            I am taking action this time.

            Martin has not misrepresented himself...........do the maths.

            and subscribe to his news letter if nothing else twice week it has me laughing my head off........
            Signature

            I am AKA Rob24hrs I reckon Content Curation is the way ahead

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            • Profile picture of the author johnsamuels
              The full title:

              "Then Enter Now The Wonderful World Of Direct Commission Products Where Your Affiliate Efforts Are Instantly Rewarded!"
              Which seems to explain itself fully without being misleading. I suppose someone new to this whole shebang could misunderstand it, but I think accusing the seller of being misleading is not all that fair.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
    Sydney,

    Seems the "Thanks" button is out of order...I can't thank you enough for your post.

    I wanted to thank you once for every spot-on comment you just made, but alas I can't

    I can only thank you once in total...

    So, you'll just have to believe me when I say, I think your post was awesome.

    Steve
    Signature

    Not promoting right now

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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by Steven Fullman View Post

      Sydney,

      Seems the "Thanks" button is out of order...I can't thank you enough for your post.

      I wanted to thank you once for every spot-on comment you just made, but alas I can't

      I can only thank you once in total...

      So, you'll just have to believe me when I say, I think your post was awesome.

      Steve
      Hi Steven!

      Got your thanks and it is appreciated. So is Bev's.

      But I say only what I feel. If you want to be a high-earning surgeon, it takes about 12 years of training to earn six figures. A struggling lawyer? Eight years for quite possibly a struggling income. Why would anyone assume they can earn six figures on the Internet just by asking on a forum how it's done?

      But perhaps it's our fault for making it sound easy; maybe it's the fault of the sellers of some training materials who tell you it can be done with three clicks of the mouse! Who knows, but the truth is it ain't easy - and thank God it isn't or some of us would be kicking ourselves for the hours we have spent trying to learn a craft.
      Signature

      CEO
      Wealthy Investor Limited
      http://wealthyinvestorweekly.com

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  • Profile picture of the author Sonomacats
    And thank you, Martin, for a right on posting. Everyone else has said it better than I could. But good on!
    Signature

    Writing as Kieran McKendrick
    You can find the first prequel to my Purgatory series (How Blended are Dust and Fire) on Amazon and Smashwords.

    Whether you think you can or think you cannot, you are right. -- Henry Ford

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  • Profile picture of the author tremayne
    I know neither Bluegold (who apparently does not want us to see his real name) or Martin Avis so I have no ax to grind.

    But I do have an ax to grind when it comes to this forum and how it is used. For a newbie or anyone else to come onto this forum with unsubstantiated accusations is not what it was intended for. It is a place for those with more than empty space between their ears to learn from those who have fought in the trenches.

    Those who want to spend their time grouching instead of learning will never find success, easy or otherwise.

    That's my two centavos!

    Sydney (and anyone can see my last name on the left!)
    Signature

    CEO
    Wealthy Investor Limited
    http://wealthyinvestorweekly.com

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    • Profile picture of the author bluegold14
      Originally Posted by tremayne View Post

      I know neither Bluegold (who apparently does not want us to see his real name) or Martin Avis so I have no ax to grind.
      You are too quick on judging people you don't know. If you paid a little attention you would have seen that I have a signature on my post. That's my real name.

      Originally Posted by tremayne View Post

      For a newbie or anyone else to come onto this forum with unsubstantiated accusations is not what it was intended for. It is a place for those with more than empty space between their ears to learn from those who have fought in the trenches.
      Again you are too quick on judging and making assumptions. My comment was not and is not "unsubstantiated accusation". It just meant to show that IMarketers' hype (forum signatures like that are just an example) is to a large extent responsible for newbies "easy", "no-work" mindset.

      Firstly they create the monster. Then they start a thread to criticize it...


      Originally Posted by Sonomacats View Post

      Clearly you're not familiar with Martin's work.
      Why should I? That's not being discussed here.


      Originally Posted by Sonomacats View Post

      Unlike most of the low number posters on this forum.
      Unfortunately my values are far different. I don't judge people for the number of posts, for the car they drive or the cloths they wear or the money they have.

      An idiot is an idiot whether he has 1 or 10 thousand posts here, an idiot is an idiot whether he drives a Ferrari or a Beetle.
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  • Profile picture of the author pearsonbrown
    It's interesting the way that some people have read into Martin's title a promise that just isn't there.

    When my father goes to his doctor, he expects bad news. So when he is given good news, he often mishears it as bad news. These days I have to go with him just to get an accurate picture.

    It can be the same when people are reading. They can bring their prior expectations to a piece of writing. What is an objective piece of writing can be misinterpreted because of prior misconceptions.

    There are far too many people who enter IM with a sense of entitlement. So, of course, there is a pool of sharks out there waiting for them. That's why I put my energies into the Reviews forum here. We help identify the sharks.

    Pearson

    PS Martin Avis is the most decent, straightforward person I know.
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    • Profile picture of the author drmani
      I've learned something valuable from a mentor. It's this.

      There are 3 kinds of people who attend a seminar, or buy a course or
      ebook, or do something else to learn about building a business:

      * the ones who are already successful
      * the ones serious about building a business, who work at it
      * the ones who are playing at it - and who get all the
      gratification they want by pretending to be serious about
      learning how to do it

      It's pretty easy to do a simple self-test to see which group YOU
      fall into by analyzing your response or feelings to this discussion
      Martin Avis sparked off with a provocative post... specifically with
      regard to the cornerstone argument -

      "It takes work and some time to build a business
      when you're starting from scratch"

      1. If you KNOW he's right (albeit to varying degrees), you're likely
      to be in the first group.

      2. If you FEEL he's right (albeit to varying degrees), you're likely
      to be in the second.

      3. If you feel he's completely wrong, and that making money or finding
      success at anything is just a matter of luck, timing, and hitting
      that next big winner by following that latest 'shiny new thing'...
      well, I won't say it, but you can figure out which group *I* think
      you fall into

      For the record, from YEARS of studying Martin's style and being
      guided by what he teaches about building online business, I can
      say he's among the few who are totally hype-free and down to earth
      in their advice, suggestions and guidance.

      Should you follow him and believe what he says? That's your choice!

      The one tiny niggling point on which I mildly disagree with Martin is
      at putting the blame squarely on the 'newbie' who asked (begged?) for
      a way to "make money easily online".

      I agree with those seeking to also blame those (who should know better)
      who convinced them that it was not only possible to do so, but almost
      inevitable!

      Yet, if you pause to think about it, even those marketers know their
      audience.
      It's the folks in the last group above - who are PLAYING
      at business building, and happily consume these "build business EASILY"
      products every day - even glorify folks who sell it to them!

      "Don't Judge a Man Until You Have Walked a Mile in His Boots!"

      or

      "Horses for Courses"

      My 2 cents. Take it (with a pinch of salt) or leave it!

      All success
      Dr.Mani
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  • Profile picture of the author ecom
    I feel patience is the key... Nothing is impossible and neither easy.. If you can dedicate time, slowly and gradually you can earn from online.. I know people who earn 4 figures in a day.. but they really give their best to earn that..
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  • Profile picture of the author pearsonbrown
    "Where Your Affiliate Efforts Are Instantly Rewarded!"

    Anybody like to guess who wrote that?

    Pearson
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    • Profile picture of the author johnsamuels
      Originally Posted by pearsonbrown View Post

      "Where Your Affiliate Efforts Are Instantly Rewarded!"

      Anybody like to guess who wrote that?

      Pearson
      Maggie Thatcher.
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      • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
        Originally Posted by pearsonbrown View Post

        "Where Your Affiliate Efforts Are Instantly Rewarded!"

        Anybody like to guess who wrote that?
        Pearson

        The headline on that page needs to be rewritten for clarity , like this

        "Where Your Affiliate Efforts Are Instantly Rewarded if
        you have just made a sale because the commission will go
        straight into your Paypal account (and you'll soon be
        able to get a Ferrari) but note that I am not actually
        saying that your efforts, e.g posting a link in a forum,
        will instantly make a sale and give you commission
        (leaving you stuck with a Beetle)"

        Harvey




        .
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        • Profile picture of the author bluegold14
          Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

          Pearson

          The headline on that page needs to be rewritten for clarity , like this

          "Where Your Affiliate Efforts Are Instantly Rewarded if
          you have just made a sale because the commission will go
          straight into your Paypal account (and you'll soon be
          able to get a Ferrari) but note that I am not actually
          saying that your efforts, e.g posting a link in a forum,
          will instantly make a sale and give you commission
          (leaving you stuck with a Beetle)"

          Harvey
          .
          Pls...several marketers trying to pick on me because of the word "instantly"?! Come on, you can do better than that.

          BTW it is clearly stated that "... you can get paid instantly into your Paypal account, every time someone clicks on your link and makes a purchase." Now tell me that's hype too.

          Harvey, if I were after posting links in this forum to make sales I'd have thousands of posts here instead of 20...If you didn't notice I'm a member since 2006.

          I'm afraid I'll finally strike it rich with this $2.50 report and buy me a Ferrari...

          In the meantime I'll jump inside my Beetle and drive to the beach. Enjoy your weekend.
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  • Profile picture of the author khairulazan
    Making money online is not easy...

    I don't to those IM make the over promising sales copy..
    Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author keystothemind
    At the age of 12 of 12 or 13 my father told me 'there's no such thing as easy money.'
    and heck, even if there was, it would be hollow!

    It means so much more if you know you have earn edit, and let's face it, money definitely should not be the only reason why we are here!
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  • Profile picture of the author Danny Turner
    No offence to Martin intended but ... can''t
    help to notice the irony in the thread subject and th sig. line
    The reason why people new to IM look for the EASY way is because of promises like
    Who Else Wants to Turn 2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income?
    one follows the other so ..... if you are sick of people with unrealistic expectations
    stop using unrealistic sales pitches .........
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Avis
      Originally Posted by Danny Turner View Post

      No offence to Martin intended but ... can''t
      help to notice the irony in the thread subject and th sig. line
      The reason why people new to IM look for the EASY way is because of promises like
      Who Else Wants to Turn 2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income?
      one follows the other so ..... if you are sick of people with unrealistic expectations
      stop using unrealistic sales pitches .........
      No offence taken.

      As I've repeatedly tried to explain in this thread, my sig line is not offering an easy solution. It is offering to teach people how to turn work (yes, that word again) into income. It certainly wasn't easy for me to learn the stuff I needed to get into my thick head and it took me years to get to the stage where I can make a comfortable living.

      If I can share the things I've learned so that others will have a somewhat shallower learning curve themselves, then I see that as being a good thing.

      A headline (or sig line) is designed to capture attention, it is the tone and intent of the sales letter behind it that determines whether hype or value is being sold. And even beyond that, a money-back guarantee ensures that the buyer isn't conned or misled.

      Funnily enough I did debate with myself whether to display my sig when I started this thread. I knew it might derail the thrust of the arguement for some people. However, I decided to leave it - not because I wanted to make sales, but because I felt that removing it would look as if I had something to hide. And I don't feel that I do.

      This whole thread has taken me by surprise.

      Normally when I start a thread it gets a few views and quickly disappears. I certainly wasn't expecting the level of interest that this one has gathered. I'm very pleased to have sparked a lively debate though, and thank everyone who has constructively added to the conversation, whether they agree with me or not!

      Internet marketing may not be easy, but then neither is exposing your thoughts and opinions for others to shoot at! But I guess Steve W knows a lot more about how hard that can be than I do!

      They are both a lot of fun though!

      Martin
      Signature
      Martin Avis publishes Kickstart Newsletter - Subscribe free at http://kickstartnewsletter.com
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Martin.Avis View Post

        As I've repeatedly tried to explain in this thread, my sig line is not offering an easy solution. It is offering to teach people how to turn work (yes, that word again) into income. It certainly wasn't easy for me to learn the stuff I needed to get into my thick head and it took me years to get to the stage where I can make a comfortable living.
        They are both a lot of fun though!

        Martin
        I'm not picking on you at all ... I actually read the entire WSO and it is not misleading ...
        past the headline. I do have to agree that the headline, Who Else Wants to Turn 2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income ... implies EASY. It also implies a certain amount of money for a ridiculously small amount of effort.

        This is exactly what many prospects are looking for. This is what they want. They will skim over the rest of your offer, except for the price and disregard most of what else is said ... what will resonate with them is 2 hours ... 6 figure income.

        Undoubtedly, they are not overly endowed either with intelligence or common sense, IMHO, because many of us instinctively, or through experience, knows that there are no free rides and if it sounds too good to be true, it is.

        The bigger issue will be in the long run, how the FTC views statements like Turn 2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income and how you propose to present "Standard Results", since you cannot use the customary disclaimer ... results may vary.
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        • Profile picture of the author lightanjoy
          So what is hard and what is easy ... its all relative innit!

          If you are enjoying something and are fired up about it it becomes an absolute breeze ... carpal tunnel and all!

          Are you fixed on a struggle and lack mentality, or a flow and abundant one, appreciation in the journey, or fixed on some far off seemingly unattainable end goal?

          I used to be into struggle .. it stinks!

          Appreciation makes the whole journey so much more fun whether it involves 100 hours a week or 10

          I remember being fired up at some early hype and enjoyed being fired up at the time
          Then I got disappointed
          Then I got fired up about losing my naivity and getting to the 'next stage'
          Then looked for support that turned out to be poor quality
          And from that was able to better distinguish what I wanted and find better support
          ... and so the 'fine tuning' started..... and I got fired up about that .. just like when I made my first dollar and realised it COULD work and that it could be leveraged .... there's a gift in every experience ... we can appreciate the hype heh! It leads to the GOLD
          Signature
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        • Profile picture of the author Martin Avis
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          I'm not picking on you at all ...
          I've got broad shoulders! I rather suspected that my sig might be misunderstood, but didn't realize how much it would end up distracting some folk from the real message.

          Still, it has been an interesting and lively conversation!

          Martin
          Signature
          Martin Avis publishes Kickstart Newsletter - Subscribe free at http://kickstartnewsletter.com
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by Martin.Avis View Post

        Internet marketing may not be easy, but then neither is exposing your thoughts and opinions for others to shoot at! But I guess Steve W knows a lot more about how hard that can be than I do!

        Martin
        Martin, look up the phrase "target on your back" in the encyclopedia and
        you'll find a picture of me next to the explanation.

        I've never been afraid to speak my mind and have had my head handed
        back to me more than once because of it.

        For what it's worth, I find nothing wrong with your sig and agree with
        the OP.

        Ironically, a lot of people who bitch about these "hyped up" sigs, sales
        pages or whatever, do the exact same thing in order to try to make the
        sale themselves. It's called marketing. And I for one have never understood
        the hypocrisy that takes place when it comes to this very issue.

        In other words, those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

        It makes a mess of the carpeting.
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    • Profile picture of the author phoenixx9000
      Why do people make the assumption that because someone has a small number of posts that they are a "newbie" or "not making any money online"? Just because you dont have thousands of posts on here doesnt mean you arent making any money - just means you dont like to post a lot!
      Signature

      How I Make $50 and More Every Day on Ebay With Virtually NO OUTLAY http://www.fifty-dollarsaday.com

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  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    I've just been in the review area of the forum, and it is interesting to see how many people complaining about a product because it is a lot of work, or takes a lot of time.

    Not only do they want instant riches, they also don't want to take any action. Did you know that around 20% of all digital products bought never get downloaded. That is a lot of money being thrown down the drain and I would think these people are complaining they never make any money either.

    No seller ever forced you to buy their product, they might have done a good job of trying to persuade you with their sales letters, but remember there is only one person responsible for your buying actions. YOU!!

    Too many people fail to understand they are addicted to shopping/buying. They fail to take responsiblity for their finances and the choices they make. Only one person is responsible for buying every product under the sun, for not using the product when bought, for getting into debt, and that is the person whose bank account is being used. I am responsible for my bank account, the way I buy and the way I run my business.

    Take responsibilty, and if you are not able to make logical decisions based on the needs of your business or wants then it is your fault nobody else. If you go to the mall and end up buying more than you need, again is it the shops fault for having the goods or your fault for not being disciplined?
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  • Profile picture of the author ristvin
    You are so dead right on Martin... I've had my ups online... when I seriously decided to treat this online marketing thing as a business... and my downs... when I followed the get rich quick gurus... all they did is make me spend money I really didn't have and dig my online grave...

    You have to treat any marketing endeavor as a true business. Online my be virtual, but the business end of it isn't. It's a lot of work (not spending 30 minutes a day in your pajamas). I spend so much time writing content to make my money that my neighbors think I'm addicted to the internet.

    So the "easy" word and its derivatives is a myth....
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  • Profile picture of the author Peter Woodhead
    Martin,

    My sentiments entirely.

    Nearly all the so-called "gurus" target the unaware newbie with a big promise.

    But the reality is that making money online is very possible but first there is a MASSIVE learning curve. Or a series of learning curves.

    Perhaps the word "easy" should be replaced by "simple." Then it would be more honest. But of course, telling the truth would, for some marketers, reduce the effect.

    I think there's a huge market for a product about "Internet Marketing - The Truth."

    Hmmm... that could be project number 102.

    Thanks for the post Martin. It needed to be said.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Leatherman
    Martin,

    Your right a lot of people took exception to your sig and used it to launch their attack against being marketed to. HEY FOLKS! WAKE UP! This is a marketing forum and the signatures are there for that very purpose.

    Smell the roses and see the valuable lesson, that is between the lines of this thread, a headline (read sig file) is all important to your success and dare I say it, make it easier for you to make money on the internet.

    Let's face it many of us see what we want to see, hear what we want to hear and then when it's not there, we blame everyone but ourselves. Take responsibility for your own actions and use common sense.

    I do want to say thank you to everyone who has participated in this thread. Whether it was good, bad, or indifferent, the thread count is what got me in here. Without it I wouldn't have come in here to see what all the fuss is about. And yes Martin's sig file got me over to his WSO and guess what I'm going to get his product because I trust him and I need the knowledge to take my business up another notch.

    Ken Letherman
    The Old Geezer
    Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin
    I'm not quite a a single-digit WF n00b but what a very interesting evolving thread. A great job of telling the truth too Martin. Lets hope lots of 'prospects' get to read it before they waste time and cash they can't afford.

    If everyone who wants to make money online was told the biggest truth first, their perceptions about the ease (or not) of achieving their wealth goals would help them make better decisions at the start.

    And what is (IMO) the biggest truth? ... the internet is only a tool of business it is not the business itself.

    Any business (online of off) is a legal entity in the real world and real businesses need people putting in time and effort to make them work. Not least to do that boring but essential paperwork and accounting stuff.

    I sometimes wonder how those trying to make a buck or two online manage to ignore that real world businesses, even those with websites sometimes go bust. Is it the hype in some copy or is it they think or want it to be easy?

    It's very rare that marketers sell sustainable growth in their copy because it doesn't sell as much as selling the dream and sadly not many look for 'slow to start', regular income, when what they (the prospective money-makers) think they want is lots of money ... now.

    There can be no denying that money is being transferred via the web. Some people are making a profit and some a loss. It's a great source of amusement to me these days to read some pitches spotting something that isn't the 'whole truth'.

    There must be 1000's of analogies that would explain the obvious to interns in internet marketing but probably the simplest would be how many bands are there out there and how many 'make it big'?

    Not many I guess but there are more people out there enjoying what they do as part of their lifestyle than those getting ripped off.

    Thankfully marketing is on the cusp of yet another profitable change.
    Signature

    Work with the web or get swallowed by it!
    1000's of smart marketers use arpReach for their contact management and email marketing

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  • Profile picture of the author angiebee
    I totally agree, but I have to say I can see why some think that way with all the hype from the gurus saturating their sales letter with the subtle and not subtle conversations that you don't "really" have to do any work. As we all know, common sense is still fairly uncommon. So there will always be those who want something for nothing.
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  • Profile picture of the author kenharthun
    Originally Posted by Martin.Avis View Post

    I've just read yet another post from a single-digit WF newbie asking (or maybe it was begging) for someone to tell them how to make money easily online.
    <snip>
    Making REAL money online isn't a game. Okay, at the lower end it can be a paying hobby, but for those of us who support our families and save money for a rainy day, this is real life.
    Martin
    Thanks, Martin! And I'll give some real life examples of people who don't have a clue.

    1. I just cleaned out more than 800 people from my Twitter account who posted nothing but links all the time, sometimes 50 times in a row. Most of these poor folks, I'm sure, were just misinformed newbies who got scammed into buying the latest make-easy-money-with-Twitter "system" that doesn't work.

    2. I'm on several social networking sites and it never fails (since I'm featured on some of them) that I continually get this kind of drivel from clueless newbies who think they can make a fortune "easily" in IM:

    "Using [this new super great system that only costs you $197/month] is super easy and only takes a
    few minutes every 3 days!
    "

    Of course, you can expect to make 6 figures per month with this system as long as you're a "member."

    Anyone who has a clue knows it takes a lot of work to build a business and build the traffic that will make it profitable. That's not to say that you can't build a system that runs on autopilot, but you had better be ready to put in the 100, 200, 300 or more hours it takes to build that system before you can expect to cruise. And you had better be ready to repeat that effort many times before you have enough of those "autopilot" systems in place before you can sit back and enjoy a life of leisure.

    Any "gurus" out there who disagree with me are free to meet with me, and set up their "system" on my site after placing the amount that everyone in their testimonials swears they earned in an escrow account payable immediately upon my not having earned the projected amount within the time frame they say I should.

    I prefer building my business on a foundation of honesty, integrity and personal contact with my customers and prospects. Nothing "easy" about that. And nothing fast about it either.

    Cheers!
    Signature

    Ken "The Internet Marketing Geek" Harthun
    Follow me on Twitter | Friend me on Facebook

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  • Profile picture of the author Sylviane
    Can't agree more with Martin.Avis here. So many newbies are coming to internet marketing just because they think and hope that they will make money easily as in doing nothing. They don't even expect to have to work hard to make it in this business, and sometimes when they come to the realization that they will have to work they just give up, to get back to their full time job LOL!

    Of course the internet gurus selling trash are much to blame for this. However, once you've understood not to believe the gurus and get down to the real thing, you need to understand that this is not going to happen on it's own. NOTHING does, EVER. Every thing in life does take efforts. Internet marketing is no different.
    Signature
    I make over $2,000/week doing this...
    Come and follow my steps for FREE!
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  • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
    Originally Posted by Martin.Avis View Post

    Why not go onto a forum for restauranteurs and ask them out of the blue how you can easily start a successful restaurant? Do you think they might laugh at you?

    How about plumbers? Try asking a bunch of them how you can easily make a grand a month with no outlay fixing people's radiators? Do you think they might think you're a bit crazy?

    That's a very nice way of making people realize their mindset is screwed up.

    There's a VERY steep learning curve when you first start internet marketing and even though it has got a whole lot easier than it was 5-10 years ago it's still not easy to get started.

    Having said that anyone who is genuinely committed to putting in the effort required will probably make money in a reasonable amount of time.

    The quicker you go from looking for easy solutions to simply aquiring the skill and taking the actions that can make you money the quicker you'll start making a good income.

    Kindest regards,
    Andrew Cavanagh
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel E Taylor
    Interesting discussion.

    Yesterday I woke up and sent 1 email out and made more
    money in one day then most people do in a week or two.

    It was pretty damn easy to me...

    *Shrugs*
    Signature

    Self Actualization is one's true purpose. Everything
    else is an illusion.

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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Avis
      Originally Posted by Daniel E Taylor View Post

      Interesting discussion.

      Yesterday I woke up and sent 1 email out and made more
      money in one day then most people do in a week or two.

      It was pretty damn easy to me...

      *Shrugs*
      Same here. But you and I have learned the craft to the point where it does seem easy - to US.

      I'm reminded of the story of Picasso, who was sitting in a restaurant when a lady came up to him and said she'd pay anything for an original sketch.

      The great man asked the waiter for two paper napkins. On one he drew a simple line drawing and on the other he wrote an invoice for a huge sum of money.

      The woman was aghast. "How can you charge so much for something you just took 30 seconds to do?"

      Picasso smiled and replied, "The price isn't for a 30-second sketch, it is for the 30 years it has taken me to learn how to create it."


      Easy is the prize at the top of the learning curve, not the first step at the foot of it.

      Martin
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      Martin Avis publishes Kickstart Newsletter - Subscribe free at http://kickstartnewsletter.com
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      • Profile picture of the author mgkimsal
        Originally Posted by Martin.Avis View Post

        Same here. But you and I have learned the craft to the point where it does seem easy - to US.

        I'm reminded of the story of Picasso, who was sitting in a restaurant when a lady came up to him and said she'd pay anything for an original sketch.

        The great man asked the waiter for two paper napkins. On one he drew a simple line drawing and on the other he wrote an invoice for a huge sum of money.

        The woman was aghast. "How can you charge so much for something you just took 30 seconds to do?"

        Picasso smiled and replied, "The price isn't for a 30-second sketch, it is for the 30 years it has taken me to learn how to create it."


        Easy is the prize at the top of the learning curve, not the first step at the foot of it.

        Martin
        Martin, you sort of beat me to the punch on this. Yes, I'm sure it IS pretty easy (not just seems to be) to just say "let me send one email and make a bunch of money". Everyone here knows the mechanics of hitting the 'send' button on an email system. It's *everything* that goes before it that's the challenge to build up, and that's obviously the part the gurus gloss over when pushing their latest system.

        I'm reminded of the standard motivational speaker story about "priming the pump" - you may have to keep pumping away a LONG time before any water comes out, and many people give up before it starts gushing. IMO, that's a bit too simplistic a metaphor, because it just involves doing the exact same thing over and over and over (moving a pump handle). If you keep doing the same thing over and over, and don't get any results, stop and do something else ("doc, it hurts when I move my arm like this!" - "don't move your arm like that").
        Signature

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        http://heywords.com/ - for article writers

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    • Profile picture of the author kenharthun
      Originally Posted by Daniel E Taylor View Post

      Interesting discussion.

      Yesterday I woke up and sent 1 email out and made more
      money in one day then most people do in a week or two.

      It was pretty damn easy to me...

      *Shrugs*
      Sure, but how much work was it to build the list that allowed you to do that?
      Signature

      Ken "The Internet Marketing Geek" Harthun
      Follow me on Twitter | Friend me on Facebook

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      • Profile picture of the author George Wright
        Originally Posted by kenharthun View Post

        Sure, but how much work was it to build the list that allowed you to do that?
        Well, I don't get it. What's the point. So he worked a little or a lot to get the list, if he did. So what. Knowing Daniel Taylor, the father of the WSO bump, he probably did something we haven't even thought of yet.

        George Wright
        Signature
        "The first chapter sells the book; the last chapter sells the next book." Mickey Spillane
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  • Profile picture of the author tunukwa
    Hi,
    I am a newbie and when I first started reading the post I was greatful for the comments but as they went on it seemed the tone changed and it is to this I would like to respond if you don't mind.



    As a newbie what has brought me here is your marketing, your headlines for instance yelling " Learn how a 23 newbie made thousands of dollars with one single idea on this first attempt at internet,maketing - no list, no money, - no product." I bought the product, Click Bank.... (I won't name the product here because I am not that clear about the rules) - it was massively hyped by all the guru's as being from a newbie. Turns out the guy had been marketing very successfully for over 10 YEARS not internet marketing but marketing is marketing. In my newbie opinion, he was not a newbie at all - he was not even new to the internet turns out he had run several sucessful campaigns before this product.


    A good marketer makes people believe what they are saying. Now that we believe what you have told us, that it is quick and easy - one click of the mouse - push button easy - step by step instruction, you know you write the copy - you turn on us and say what fools you are.


    A previous post states, "The good thing is that you can be away from the computer and still make money but not until you have established your presence on the internet." and my question is have you ever put that in any of your headlines? I have never read one framed like that. All I ever hear is "Make money while you are sleeping, on vacation etc. " Marketers teach people to write statements like that because they study psychology and know that people will give them their money when you say that to them. Even other marketers read excellently writen copy for products they know are less that stellar and feel they want to buy. But when someone outside the circle acts this way we are looked down up as being stupid.



    Another post says, "A far bigger component is the entitlement mentality that is so prevalent. The 'I want it now and I want it fast' attitude from people who don't want a business plan or a detailed step-by-step how-to manual - they just want a magic wand." This is the western mind set, the same mind set that the internet is spreading around the world. This marketing mindset is of course found in all advertising in the west, it is an instant gratification culture as you know. How many of you who are now so critical of what you have produced in the form of newbies, began your internet career with a business plan?



    We are hounded relentlessly by marketers, on the phone, internet, mail etc. and now when we come into the forum, the sanctum sanctorium we are thrashed. Remember, your marketing to us has helped make us what you see before you, perhaps a little introspection rather than pious condemnation would be more appropriate.


    Your friend,

    tunukwa

    PS -please, no hot coals or anything like that - be nice, I am new here.
    PPS-don't scare me away - remember I helped send your kids to college.......
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Avis
      Originally Posted by tunukwa View Post

      We are hounded relentlessly by marketers, on the phone, internet, mail etc. and now when we come into the forum, the sanctum sanctorium we are thrashed. Remember, your marketing to us has helped make us what you see before you, perhaps a little introspection rather than pious condemnation would be more appropriate.
      My original post wasn't intented to attack newbies at all - it was supposed to help them!

      What I am trying to attack is the erroneous mindest that dooms so many people to fail. You see, if you can learn right at the beginning that the learning curve is steep and that you are very unlikely to find an EASY answer, then you are much more likely to approach Internet marketing in a way that will be successful.

      The Warrior Forum and the many experienced people in it are very rarely unnecessarily nasty to newbies. Sensible questions are almost always met with helpful and contrictive answers. In fact, the attacks are often the other way around - how many times do we see someone post a very clear, step-by-step explanation of a good way to make money, only to find newbies posting that it is too hard or costs too much to start?

      Newbies are not all created equal though.

      We do occasionally dump on individuals who would rather whine than work, ask non-questions that nobody can answer, or throw back sensible advice because it involves too much effort.

      But in general, sensible newbies who really want to learn and are not afraid of a bit of graft or a modicum of expense, get a very positive response.

      I don't think that 'pious condemnation' is a good description of what goes on here at all. But I guess that even the most 'contructive criticism' can be taken the wrong way by someone who doesn't get the answer he or she had expected.

      Martin
      Signature
      Martin Avis publishes Kickstart Newsletter - Subscribe free at http://kickstartnewsletter.com
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    So...

    Can I now turn my 10 hours into a 30 figure income?....

    Peace

    Jay
    Signature

    Bare Murkage.........

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    • Profile picture of the author susanm
      Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

      So...

      Can I now turn my 10 hours into a 30 figure income?....

      Peace

      Jay
      As long as you don't expect it to be easy!
      Signature

      Just passing through.

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  • Profile picture of the author theimdude
    Originally Posted by Martin.Avis View Post

    I've just read yet another post from a single-digit WF newbie asking (or maybe it was begging) for someone to tell them how to make money easily online.

    Can you spot the word that makes the request a total nonsense?

    Can you see the word that has doomed this newbie to fail?

    Can you comprehend the mindset that makes failure inevitable?

    I'm sure you can.

    The word is easily.

    It might have been easy, easier or easiest.

    Here is a wake up call: Internet marketing isn't easy.

    Sorry. It had to be said. Making money online - and I mean real money, pay the bills and feed the kids money, consistent, do-it-again-next-month money - that takes effort, skill, experience and work.

    It ain't easy.

    At least, not in the way you've interpreted the word.

    You see, when we 'experienced' folk say that it is easy we are misleading you badly. We don't really mean easy in the sense that it is so dead simple that an elderly dog can be taught to do it for biscuits. It isn't a self-working party trick.

    When we say easy we mean that it isn't particularly hard or complicated, it doesn't require years of training and it certainly doesn't need the IQ if Einstein (thank goodness). But it does need consistent, focused, results-centric effort.

    Complex, but not complicated.

    Or to put it another way, work.

    Sorry to burst the bubble.

    Here's a radical idea. Why not go onto a forum for restauranteurs and ask them out of the blue how you can easily start a successful restaurant? Do you think they might laugh at you?

    How about plumbers? Try asking a bunch of them how you can easily make a grand a month with no outlay fixing people's radiators? Do you think they might think you're a bit crazy?

    Ah. you might say, "those are real life businesses - I'm talking about making money online."

    SLAP! (I hope you felt that round the side of your head.)

    What makes you think that a business (for that is what making $1000 or more a month is) online is any different to one offline? Business is business and the people who understand that and treat it with the respect it requires are half way to doing well.

    Making REAL money online isn't a game. Okay, at the lower end it can be a paying hobby, but for those of us who support our families and save money for a rainy day, this is real life.

    And when you are just starting out, it isn't 'easy'.

    Over time it does get easier, but if you are a newbie understand this: you will have to learn some skills, you will have to spend some money, you will have to work some things out for yourself, you will have to stand on your own feet, you will have to (cover your ears and eyes if you are of a nervous disposition) ...

    Work.


    Martin
    So you wern't a newby before?

    You see you WSO is exactly why and what newbies are searching for

    Easy Money - $1mil house fancy car, fancy holidays and that
    makes them as that question

    So why judge them when you add the fuel to the fantasy that you and 1000's of other "IM marketers have started"

    Why would sell you idea for a measly $100 if it can really make that money?

    I will keep it to myself.

    I found a marketer once that claims his system makes him a $1000 a day.
    I noticed his website really needed a makeover and offered to do him a proper ecover for $20 and sort out a few things.

    He said he will get back to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author johnes4th
    I would still consider myself newbie-ish. I started by only paying for hosting and an autoresponder because I didn't have the money to spend on anything else (which led to a ton of manual work).

    Granted, it is hard work (it is a business) but I am make enough to cover all of my bills and my wife can now go back to finish her degree so I have met my minimum goals when I started.

    I think that the best piece of advice that I wish I would have gotten is put 1/2 of your profit back into your business and use the rest for personal use.

    If you make a little more each month, you invest more in your business for software/outsourcing and still have more money to spend on yourself.

    Once I understood that it really is a business and should be treated like one, everything else fell into place. (just needed to change my mindset a little).

    It is a simple, almost obvious piece of advice, but a critical one nevertheless.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nathan Alexander
    What do they say?

    "After twenty years I'm finally an overnight success!"
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    • Profile picture of the author archiebunk
      This is a first for me. Yes yes yes you can guess, I"m a newbie, noob as most of you call it.
      When the word easy was used it sucked me in also. The problem is all the IM's out there are happy to suck someone in, because once they have them they can keep sucking more and more out of the people that think it's easy. Instead of telling them it's hard work. No! they keep trying to make a person buy more and telling them if you buy this or that it's going to make it even easier. Go to this person or go to that person, THEIR THE BEST AND CAN SHOW YOU HOW EASY IT IS. Boloney, If a person gets sucked into something like this he has to realise after a point that this isn't going to be easy, because if it was, why would they keep sending more and more stuff to buy.
      I"m an old dog but not stupid enough to believe that when someone is successful it takes hard work.
      I was looking for a way to make some money because I'm retired and this would be a way for me to pass some time. It only took me one time to buy an EASY product to realise that this wasn't going to be easy.
      If it was going to be easy then what would I have to do? Sit around and collect EASY money.
      Newbie's, young or old, have to realise nothing is easy unless it handed to you on a silver platter. Even then it could be harder than you think.
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    • Profile picture of the author oruehl
      Originally Posted by Nathan Alexander View Post

      What do they say?
      "After twenty years I'm finally an overnight success!"
      This is so true!

      I also stumbled over some offers and thought: "Hey! Why is not everyone doing it?".
      Because it is hard work that earns the money like in all jobs that exist.

      So please Newbies: Start easy and gradually put more work in your projects. It is much more satisfying to earn good money from something you earned with hard work and dedication.

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  • Profile picture of the author Riddley Walker
    This is my first post on here so I am one of those noobs. I must have spent 20 plus hours this weekend trying to work out how to start in IM. Finding this forum was a big help. I've looked at peoples advice and comments on here , been uplifted, disappointed, jaded and then come back to where i started. I've taken advice on board , read some of your blogs, subscribed to a few.
    For me Internet Marketing is still a serious opportunity. I have an offline business and friends in offline businesses. My own business would not have survived if I didnt sort my website and get some SEO and adwords. Unfortunately my business is tough at the moment so I'm looking to apply what little I know and finally get into something that I know can make a massive difference to offline businesses.

    I know a big investment in time is needed to get some skills and experience and find what works best for me. The reason behind a weekend of trawling is to try and set out on the right path so that time investment isn't wasted. Yes , I know there are blueprints out there and i will be using one that i paid for ages ago but did nothing about - like a lot of you have suggested , stick with one mentor or plan and work it. I made a few notes on what i'd learned form a weekend of trawling, then this morning i re-visited the course I'd paid for and surprise, surprise it was nearly all covered there , but gold plated with the guys experience.

    So why do I think its worth doing? Bearing in mind "99% dont make money or give up" -
    1) because i don't believe that figure
    2) because the internet is probably the smartest way to market any business
    3) most offline business owners are still clueless about it

    I've always believed in working smarter rather than harder, which is what I guess it boils down to.
    Succeed or fail , I am going to enjoy the journey and learn something!

    All the best,
    Riddley
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Leatherman
    Riddley,

    For a 1st time post, you did good. With your 'can do attitude" I have no problem seeing you make a go of it. Frankly, I think you bear out precisely what Martin has stated in his OP. It takes work.

    Ken Leatherman
    The Old Geezer


    P.S. Welcome to the forum. I look forward to learning from you.
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  • Profile picture of the author RM
    I think the BNP got a raw deal on Question Time! ..sorry wrong forum..
    Since leaving "proper" work, (we can go into that if you like) I have spent many thousands of my children's inheritance pounds on offline and online Biz Opps: books, tapes, seminars, software, ebooks, manuals... the lot. Every single one of them was overhyped in the "how easy it is to do" department. Probably wouldn't have bought them otherwise. Most (except some of the more lurid gambling schemes) came with a money back guarantee.
    Now here's the thing - I have never once asked for my money back. More fool you, you may say, but the truth is - I always learnt something of value and was able to move on.
    Now as I sit here in my pyjamas, with a cup of coffee and biscuits, earning a living (albeit modest) online, I can reflect that I would sooner be doing this rather than putting letters through the door on the minimum wage as a temporary postman. (A hot topic in the UK)
     
    I don't know Martin Avis personally, but since I am addicted to free offers, I receive dozens of newsletters each day, and his are the only ones I open and read immediately. He, and the people he recommends, are the only people I trust. I have been a sucker for every new system and have bought stuff from Cory Rudl (RIP) downwards, but not any more...
    Anyway I used to live around the corner from Martin in Sunny Sidcup - so I guess you could say I know where he's coming from...
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  • Profile picture of the author Emily Meeks
    I stumbled into Internet Marketing one day. I really didn't know what I was getting into at first, and I also had no idea that there's hundreds of way to make money online - so what happened? I floundered around on my own for a long time. I discovered the Warrior Forum when I was sick of trying to "go it alone".

    I made a newbie mistake: I thought I'd be making a lot of cash a long time ago. That was before I had any plans, before I thought of anything long-term.

    I DID have a blog that brought me $90 from Clickbank in a month without much traffic at all. I could've earned more had I kept it up, but a shinier idea came to mind. Then right before THAT idea could take off, I was back to zero-budget marketing.

    It IS possible to make cash for little to no out-of-pocket cost. But I've had to work my ass off for that cash.

    I'm not rolling in the dough just yet. But! I've got millions of ideas. And you know what? I stringed a lot of them together all by my damn self without help from ANYONE. I figure things out for myself and see for myself how they fit together. The only real hurdle I have is time management - once that's down pat it's game over.

    So to newbies complaining that they were victims of bad marketing - guess what. USE YOUR HEAD. There's plenty of info for free on this very forum. Start adding 2 and 2 together. And before you start complaining that there's no all-in-one guide to Internet Marketing - SUCH A GUIDE ISN'T REALISTIC! Affiliate marketing, list-building, resell marketing, product creation, CPA, blogging, site-flipping, freelancing, SEO, PPC, backlinks, on and on and on - even if one such guide did cover all of the above, there's no way you'll get specific enough information to really get anything out of it.

    Find a business model that works with your abilities, not against them. If you can't write for beans but you kick ass in web design - build a killer web page with outsourced content. Buy guides that expand on your chosen business model. Nobody here is going to babysit you - believe it or not, you do have to learn things on your own.
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    In all that you do, know your True INTENT...

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  • Profile picture of the author filipina4friends
    it takes time, hard work and money to earn money fast
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    Contact Number and Facebook are visible, No Registration needed.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Cabo
    yup I see what you mean. Some stuff huh.
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    • Profile picture of the author C A Perez
      As a new IMer, I relate. I started 4+ months ago. I am learning as I go, putting in 10-12 hours a day, 6-7 days per week. I am retired; I have the time. So far I have made two sales for $18 each. That is about two cents an hour, on the low end. Thank God for Social Security!
      I think I am in the wrong niche, Make Money Online. I'm switching over to -----???
      I'll find the right niche. By the way, I just want some extra income. Getting rich would be nice, but it is not a requirement. I am of the old school. I am not afraid of a little work to get what I want.
      Carlos
      CA Perez
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      and Article Marketers.
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  • Profile picture of the author newby31
    Hello all
    I've been trying to learn this for awhile have made a lot of mistakes but have learned on the way. I have a question probably a newby one. I'm not expecting easy I just need to know the process. I know many marketers have very many niche sites they call passive they build and then go to the next. I would like to build some static sites from small niches I've found. Here is my question: After doing my research for keywords and my competition and know I can rank on the first page for my keyword is this the process for passive sites? I'm confused because if it was for a main site I would have to build back links,write articles,post in forums and all the other things to help ranking. I can't see how one person could do this for a lot of sites.

    All you insight will be greatly appreciated
    newby31
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary Mitchell
    You know, If you're a newby the real truth is coming out in all of these comments. The most common denominator is "hard work". But on the upside the thing that we all (internet marketers) work for is a thing called "Time Leverage".

    Once you've done your work and set up your system with a strong team that can duplicate by using their strengths then you can reap the rewards from the seeds you've sown.

    I'm not there yet, but that's what I'm working for. You may not get rich easy in this business but when it is done right you can make a lot of money and have a lot of time to watch your kids grow up and be there with them, or travel or retire.

    Recently I've been listening to a guy named David Wood his blog is "Working with David Wood". He has a 20 minute video that is inspirational and sums it up. Included is an interview with Mark Yarnell who has been doing this for 20 years and they can paint a really nice picture of the lifestyle that is available to those who do it right.

    Those who pay their dues and make it in this business, really have a lifestyle that no other industry can offer.

    Gary
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  • Profile picture of the author Deltoid
    Thank you for raising this issue and all the useful comments that followed.

    After being bombarded with all the sales hype from people who are mostly experts in their field and know what buttons to push, I have become completely overwhelmed with both the flood of information and the size and scope of Internet Marketing as a whole. One of the best bits of advice that I have received is to pick one process and master it to the best of one's ability before venturing into other avenues. It has been hard for me to avoid being sucked into buying yet another great piece of software or marketing course promising results in 10 easy steps, while trying to decide on the line of marketing that is right for me. One of the most promising (so I have been told) seems to be the PPV environment in the CPA networks.
    If anyone has any advice on which line offers the best training ground for a newbie to get his feet wet without being too complex, I would be grateful to hear from you. My leaning is towards article marketing but it seems rather daunting.
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  • Profile picture of the author shaggard
    You know what I am a newb. I think this sucks! I think the whole thing blows big time. Great whoo tee doo. I made the first page. So what. I made 19 cents.

    I am still tryin. No one is telling me what i did wrong. Apparently I did something wrong. Or maybe I did something right. who knows. All I know is I worked my butt off. Made the first page and still aint making money.

    But yah know what I will keep trying because nothing is easy.
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  • Profile picture of the author sahail
    Thanks for the God-like and patronising attitude guys. Why would we pay to join things like War Room and think life was easy?

    We can obviously never be like you, but some of us will continue to try...
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  • Profile picture of the author sahail
    I'm a 'single digit WF newbie' and I am actually intelligent enough to spot exploitative marketing.

    I do not think this place was set up to intimidate or cajole newcomers?
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  • Profile picture of the author superaffiliate09
    Hey Martin
    You hit the nail on the head.
    But I would like to add a few more things.Internet marketing is not the easiest business in the world but it becomes easy once you master the system.Nothing comes without planning,hard work and determination.

    While choosing IM as your career you should not look at it from the money point of view.Ask yourself if you really enjoy it.Then start working and try to help as many people as you can.This is give and take game.

    Your main aim should be to provide helpful content.Once people start seeing you as an authority they'll not hesitate to buy your recommendations.

    The things which hold back newbies are their inertia, inability to take action,information overload and lack of a clear cut plan.Most IMers fail not due to lack of information(it's everywhere) but excess of it.They are always running after every new opportunity without applying the knowledge they previously gained.

    I am telling this from my own personal experience.I suffered for several months due to my inability to take action.I was flitting from this to that program and earnings pennies in spite of working for over 15 hours per day.

    The income claims the GURUS are making may be hyped but are not always false.There is tons of money to be made online.You just have to follow a proven business model(Be it info products creation,CPA marketing,affiliate marketing,site flipping,eBay selling or whatsoever).Stick to that model for enough time and once you find what is working for you ,just scale it up(You may even like to repeat the same in other niches).

    Once you master some particular system and start generating stable income from it,devote a fraction of your time to master other business models.After a time you'll have enough income streams to allow you to follow your dream of "Work two hours per day and make thousands".
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary Hicks
    Our yearning for an easy life is a basic facet of human nature. Most folk are naturally lazy and will always seek the default option in life - and marketers will often seek to exploit that trait - with varying degrees of ruthlessness. But I like to believe those with a basic grasp of reality understand that to achieve anything really worthwhile is seldom easy. It may be simple, but not easy. As said previously, what's easy for one man may be very hard for another. Everything is relative. Just using a PC, let alone making money from it, can sometimes be very hard if you're having trouble figuring out what that simple - take two minutes to fix problem - actually is!
    Buying stuff online, you should still exercise common sense and due diligence as you should offline. As Martin says, just be wary of the e word - assuming the FTC hasn't banned it!!
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  • Profile picture of the author seanyd
    Great post I agree totally . I`ve been online about 5 years and made nothing but thats because I was afraid to take action incase I lost money . So I became a product junkie going from one to another . Time to take the plunge .! Working on my 1st product now
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  • Profile picture of the author LuisEAvila
    Martin.Avis thanks for saying this and reminding newbies out there that any kind of business online or offline takes real WORK!

    I'm a newbie myself and all i've ever made online is $2.87 with adsense. This is very recent by the way. It took me almost 3 years of trial and error for those $2.87. But like most newbies i wanted everything FAST and EASY! Needless to say i spent a lot of money on junk products that promised Quick Riches.

    I think that if newbies out there take into consideration what Martin.Avis has to say they will save a lot of money and a lot of error. I'm not saying not to spend money, all i'm saying is to be careful what you spend money on. Spend it wisely, make sure that its a good investment.

    After only making 2 dollars in adsense i can see that there is light at the end of the tunnel and everything makes much more sense now, especially after joining this forum.

    SO again i thank you Martin. Avis and hopefully people out there will learn from your post.
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  • Profile picture of the author JeffLam
    Well, now that we have beaten the newbies' hopes and aspirations for quick and easy money..

    ..how about some encouragement?

    Seth's Blog: The reason riding a unicycle is difficult

    Like all things in life - watch for the jump.
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  • Profile picture of the author ncmedia
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author TeoAdiputra
      Originally Posted by ncmedia View Post

      Here's some encouragement. Build up x,xxx posts, and start a IT'S HARD thread pointing to a wso in your sig, it will suddenly be easier (kidding!).

      Some points I'll throw around to help the average noob, I will probably get flamed for this but screw it, I can quantify my sh!t without an agenda...

      * Don't spend too much time on WaFO, or DP, or any forum. I'm serious.

      * Stop buying ebooks, WSO's, uber guber secrets from guru's here or elsewhere.

      * NEVER start your IM journey trying to sell marketing to marketers. I LOVE seeing noobs posts with 'LEARN TO RANK #1 FOR ANY KEYWORD AND GET 1 BILLION DOLLARS BY NEXT WEEK - 2 REVIEWS LEFT!'. Start in a niche/sector that is aimed at average consumers.

      * Take a few REAL marketing courses, listen to a few REAL success stories outside of IM/AM/M.

      * Find yourself a mentor, someone to look up to that is successful, in person - not just with money but with life. Success comes in part from a balanced self-preservation of well being in all aspects of life not just banking large. Stick to that person like glue, even if they are far outside your core business relations/functions. < Find more like them. (always surround yourself with people quantifiably bigger/better than you - and I don't mean ppl at forums trying to push WSO's or ebookz even if they have 19,953 posts).

      * It CAN be easy - in my opinion it ALL depends on how smart your FIRST move on this chess board is. If you get lead down the right paths, bypassing all the bull****, learning from real curriculum not focused agendas to collectively monetize you, you will learn MUCH faster than versioning your knowledge via limited documented case studies or scenario's where xxx,xxx marketers interact, each with their own (teams) agenda.

      * Stop learning, start doing, learn from your mistakes (hey whadya know, just like real life). Defeat analysis is important from things like wars, down to campaign analytics and maximizing knowledge from previous failures to prevent future failures, or to come out on top next time, nothing happens without actually doing it, neither success/nor failure (note: some people fail MANY more times than others, or simply give up after 1 or 2 campaigns never to be seen again, gone into the affiliate wastelands ((or buying your next WSO to solve all their problems))).

      * Sorry if this came off as a rant, as I tend to agree with the OP, nothing is easy in life. Just as I read through all the interaction and looked at a lot of the sigs, it was amusing to see how much of a shark pool this place really is!

      Truth is, YES, you CAN go from 4 figures a year to 6-7 within a few months even as a dumb noob, I've seen it happen with many people in my direct circle, as well as my affiliates, as well as randoms - If you get the right foundation and have things such as time, money, resources in your favor, you are a good candidate to be the next success story. If you're stuck in a rut/hamster wheel and are just exploring this arena with a few hours a day while juggling 'life', you better MAKE SURE you learn from the right pack of wolves, before you're nothing more than a long term dinner to them.

      Lastly, (fingers crossed this doesn't sting too much) I WOULD NOT recommend a noob learn from a place like this, even though it's a marketing forum - everyone here is trying to rape you with influence, or teach you everything they know for $7... You're all blaming your own monster for making the new generation think a ebook or wso is going to make them money 'easily' or by next week. Not hating just calling it like it is, a part of the ripple effect of self-replicating influenced 'success' systems and their sideshows.

      Sorry if this offends any warriors,
      N.
      Norb, you hammered it my friend! The hardest thing anyone can do within this field is actually taking action. Hehe thanks man! BTW miss talking to ya on MSN, we should catch up ... of course your so busy these days! =]
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  • Profile picture of the author Seant7871
    As a newbie, one of the things I find is the hardest part of internet marketing is patience. Like someone mention this is not easy for those of us just starting out. You are so overwhelmed with the amount of information out there that at times you don't know if you are coming or going.
    I finding that there are lots of trial and error in IM and the problem I am having is knowing what to place to most emphasis on as far as getting the word out about my sites and products. I do the article thing daily, post to social booking marking sites, and I read forums daily. I am getting traffic to my sites, but no sales yet. I have tested one page against another just to see what works and what don't work.
    It is not easy and this requires lots of work. I am working harder on my sites then I did in 30 years in the military.
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    • Profile picture of the author Elmer Hurlstone
      A couple or three of the constants not only in this thread but across this and other forums are, "How can I make money?" and "Who can teach me? and, last but not least, "Information Overload."

      Some of the concerns about these is the time and money required to first, learn what to do; second, how to do it; and third, how much will it cost me?

      The third question is, for many, a biggie. Let's face it, if you're, for whatever reason, short of money, money or the real needs it provides is a serious concern. When you're up against paying the electric bill or buying the next best "How to..." guess which wins?

      The first two questions are of equal importance. You can ask them of three marketers and get four answers. Or more.

      To actually get reliable answers will require an investment.

      Yes, you'll have to spend time and at some point, although not immediately, money.

      There are four ways which immediately come to mind.

      1. Start in this forum and look for content-filled posts with decent activity. Start with the "A*l in On*" threads at the top of the board.

      2. At least three well known, very capable and, in my opinion, ethical, honest and successful, marketers offer absolutely free of charge tutorials. One is a 100 plus page ebook. The other two are blog based multi-part lessons.

      The three are: Martin Avis, Eric Holmlund and Paul Myers.

      You'll have to do a bit of searching to find exactly what I'm referring to, but it won't be too hard.

      And, let's face it, much of internet marketing is about "search".

      Spend some time, make some money...

      Elmer
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
    HMMMM...

    IM is so easy a 2 year old can do it... Want some proof here is my grandsons site, hes 2 in january How To Write Your Own Lead-Pulling SqueezePages

    He makes around $500 to a $1000 a month all on autopilot... He just got someone else to create the product and build the website

    And then got someone else to spend just 2 hours a month buying advertising credits in 5 traffic exchanges and applying the credits.

    Thats it...

    he has a list of 2500 (and growing) for which he got someone else to write the emails for the autoresponder series and makes money from the affiliate commissions sending people to free to join websites.

    Really his grandpa did nothing to promote it, except write out the instructions to the person doing the 2 hours a month.

    Ducks for incoming

    Robert
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Robert, you left out the one essential skill - picking the right grandparents...

      Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

      HMMMM...

      IM is so easy a 2 year old can do it... Want some proof here is my grandsons site, hes 2 in january How To Write Your Own Lead-Pulling SqueezePages

      He makes around $500 to a $1000 a month all on autopilot... He just got someone else to create the product and build the website

      And then got someone else to spend just 2 hours a month buying advertising credits in 5 traffic exchanges and applying the credits.

      Thats it...

      he has a list of 2500 (and growing) for which he got someone else to write the emails for the autoresponder series and makes money from the affiliate commissions sending people to free to join websites.

      Really his grandpa did nothing to promote it, except write out the instructions to the person doing the 2 hours a month.

      Ducks for incoming

      Robert
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  • Profile picture of the author DianneC
    Hi Warriors and Noobs.

    I have been trying to make money online for 8+ years by chasing all the 'easy' ways that were proposed to me. If I had just applied myself to doing the 'hard' work that this business requires, I would be making money by now. So now I am applying myself and working 'hard', but what I find is that I really like doing the work. This has been the best realization. Sometimes I hate being away from my computer because there is so much work that I 'want' to do. I am having fun and I encourage all the other noobs (yes, I still consider myself a noobs) to have fun, but do the hard work.

    Dianne
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  • Profile picture of the author robyrobertson
    Originally Posted by Martin.Avis View Post

    I've just read yet another post from a single-digit WF newbie asking (or maybe it was begging) for someone to tell them how to make money easily online.

    Can you spot the word that makes the request a total nonsense?

    Can you see the word that has doomed this newbie to fail?

    Can you comprehend the mindset that makes failure inevitable?

    I'm sure you can.

    The word is easily.

    It might have been easy, easier or easiest.

    Here is a wake up call: Internet marketing isn't easy.

    Sorry. It had to be said. Making money online - and I mean real money, pay the bills and feed the kids money, consistent, do-it-again-next-month money - that takes effort, skill, experience and work.

    It ain't easy.

    At least, not in the way you've interpreted the word.

    You see, when we 'experienced' folk say that it is easy we are misleading you badly. We don't really mean easy in the sense that it is so dead simple that an elderly dog can be taught to do it for biscuits. It isn't a self-working party trick.

    When we say easy we mean that it isn't particularly hard or complicated, it doesn't require years of training and it certainly doesn't need the IQ if Einstein (thank goodness). But it does need consistent, focused, results-centric effort.

    Complex, but not complicated.

    Or to put it another way, work.

    Sorry to burst the bubble.

    Here's a radical idea. Why not go onto a forum for restauranteurs and ask them out of the blue how you can easily start a successful restaurant? Do you think they might laugh at you?

    How about plumbers? Try asking a bunch of them how you can easily make a grand a month with no outlay fixing people's radiators? Do you think they might think you're a bit crazy?

    Ah. you might say, "those are real life businesses - I'm talking about making money online."

    SLAP! (I hope you felt that round the side of your head.)

    What makes you think that a business (for that is what making $1000 or more a month is) online is any different to one offline? Business is business and the people who understand that and treat it with the respect it requires are half way to doing well.

    Making REAL money online isn't a game. Okay, at the lower end it can be a paying hobby, but for those of us who support our families and save money for a rainy day, this is real life.

    And when you are just starting out, it isn't 'easy'.

    Over time it does get easier, but if you are a newbie understand this: you will have to learn some skills, you will have to spend some money, you will have to work some things out for yourself, you will have to stand on your own feet, you will have to (cover your ears and eyes if you are of a nervous disposition) ...

    Work.


    Martin
    It is a same there are not statistics that show how long it takes for affiliates to actually make sale and subsequent sales. Kind of like real estate has the MLS to track sales. Maybe then the get rich quick stuff would be disgarded.

    Great post and every newbie should tack it to their wall...
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  • Profile picture of the author whaldorf
    I'd like to side with the buffoon, single-digit post count WF n00b for a second (since maybe I can relate at some level!). I think this person may be coming from a skewed point of view. Unlike plumbers and restaurateurs our profession is littered with online manuals promising the riches of Babylon to anyone that can get a few backlinks to their niche blog.

    It's very often painted as easy and hence misconstrued as such by new comers. The reality is of course different. Taking charge of your own income, regardless of whether you do it online or off, is a challenging excercise and those that accomplish the task deserve respect for their achievement.
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    • Profile picture of the author George Wright
      whaldorf,

      I do agree with you. On the other hand Making Money has been sold by those who DO and those who TEACH as easy for as long as I've been on Terra Firma.

      I became a carpet cleaner and stayed in the field for 20 years after buying a how to manual on "How to make thousands the easy way in your very own carpet cleaning business." While I did enjoy Cleaning Carpets (because of the daily instant cash I made) It was not easy and it did require an investment.

      The same is true of 100s of other business opportunities 20, 30, 40 years ago. How to Groom Poodles for fun and profit, How to mow grass and make thousands, How to turn your hobbies into money, on and on.

      I forgot why I even started this post, It wasn't to argue. Hmmmm.... Oh well, I'll leave and come back when I remember my point.

      George Wright

      Originally Posted by whaldorf View Post

      I'd like to side with the buffoon, single-digit post count WF n00b for a second (since maybe I can relate at some level!). I think this person may be coming from a skewed point of view. Unlike plumbers and restaurateurs our profession is littered with online manuals promising the riches of Babylon to anyone that can get a few backlinks to their niche blog.

      It's very often painted as easy and hence misconstrued as such by new comers. The reality is of course different. Taking charge of your own income, regardless of whether you do it online or off, is a challenging excercise and those that accomplish the task deserve respect for their achievement.
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      "The first chapter sells the book; the last chapter sells the next book." Mickey Spillane
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  • Profile picture of the author SharedMemories
    Interesting thread - yes, people think "cookie cutter web sites" are the easy get rich quick on the net answers - why wouldn't they? as others have said, that's what is marketed to them with the tiny little disclaimers that "not everyone makes money with this venture."

    Does anyone remember back in the early 90's a "make money on the internet" business that was actually called The Cookie Cutter?
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  • Profile picture of the author RM
    "I'd rather concentrate on people who want success and not excuses." Sorry don't know how this quote thing works yet...

    Once again Martin is "on the money"

    However lets get some perspective here.

    Naturally in a forum on IM the majority of posts seem to be on how to make money, by telling people how to make money, online .

    In the UK I still get quite a lot of post (snail mail) offering me biz opps and betting schemes. Very few if any are to do with IM. The most successful seem to be Andrew Reynolds (and a select few of his students) and Streetwise Marketing. I have bought their stuff. I have never asked for a refund because I always learn something from them.

    Now here's the thing - all these people are making a great deal of money by telling others how to make money. Are they con merchants...

    IM is a great tool, but maybe we are saturated with Gurus telling us how to do it.

    My advice is to use this wonderful tool, learn the mechanics of it, but have a business plan that relies more on selling information or physical goods outside of IM and you may have more of a chance of carving out your own profitable niche.

    I spent about 40 years attempting to earn a living pre internet - it wasn't pretty.

    Great post from George Wright - I get what you're on about. Sympathy also to SEANT7871 who spent 30 years in the military..

    NEWBIES please stick at it, but consider what training, education and experience is required to succeed in the "physical " world, before you give up or give in.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnHuizinga
      Originally Posted by RM View Post

      "I'd rather concentrate on people who want success and not excuses." Sorry don't know how this quote thing works yet...
      There's a quote button at the bottom of each post. Press it and then delete the stuff you don't want to quote.
      Originally Posted by RM View Post

      However lets get some perspective here.

      Naturally in a forum on IM the majority of posts seem to be on how to make money, by telling people how to make money, online .
      I've been here for well over a year and that has not been my experience at all. Most people here recommend you get into pretty much any market other than the make money online market - especially when you're just starting out and you have no idea how to really make money online.
      Maybe you're thinking about a different forum...
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      • Profile picture of the author RM
        I've been here for well over a year and that has not been my experience at all. Most people here recommend you get into pretty much any market other than the make money online market - especially when you're just starting out and you have no idea how to really make money online.
        Maybe you're thinking about a different forum...John Huizinga

        Ok, I defer to your greater knowledge of this forum...

        But doesn't your Sig rather illustrate my point..

        My serious but admittedly rather convoluted point is:

        That most Gurus (online and offline) who are offering Newbies advice are themselves making a lot of money only by selling that advice. Of course they all intimate that good money can be made using their techniques in regular business. But as we all know, it is much harder to do, than to teach how to do. Newbies should realise this when they are dazzled by the potential earning power of the latest (or rehashed) techniques. And by way of illustration, I suggested that they consider what effort it takes to earn a living from business in the "physical" world.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnHuizinga
          Originally Posted by RM View Post

          Ok, I defer to your greater knowledge of this forum...

          But doesn't your Sig rather illustrate my point..
          Not really. My sig is not what it seems as you would know if you either clicked on the link or just hovered over it. I'm trying to make a completely different point than the one you think with it.
          Originally Posted by RM View Post

          My serious but admittedly rather convoluted point is:

          That most Gurus (online and offline) who are offering Newbies advice are themselves making a lot of money only by selling that advice. Of course they all intimate that good money can be made using their techniques in regular business. But as we all know, it is much harder to do, than to teach how to do. Newbies should realise this when they are dazzled by the potential earning power of the latest (or rehashed) techniques. And by way of illustration, I suggested that they consider what effort it takes to earn a living from business in the "physical" world.
          I certainly agree that many people who are selling "make money online" products are what you claim they are. Caveat Emptor and all that. I'm not a really big buyer of such products myself so I couldn't comment much more on that.
          I also believe that there are a number of people on this forum who offer quality advice for free and I have little doubt that they go into even more detail on that quality advice in their paid products.
          Just because there are scammers in the field doesn't mean everybody here is a scammer. If you spend enough time here you'll get a feel for who is most likely to be trustworthy.
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  • Profile picture of the author AnnaOlgushka
    that's more tell about yourself, it's all related to personal beliefs

    what you find hard, is really easy for others

    there are tons of cases of people who made easy cash by spotting an opportunity at the rigth time
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  • Profile picture of the author -Jericho-
    You can easily make money online. One of my blogs easily made $.04 yesterday and it was so easy. Now if I just had 100,000 more of those I would easily make a lot of money.

    The word easily is a misnomer. What people want is not to easily make money online they want to easily make a lot of money online. That is not the easy part. Making money online is easy it's just how much you make that makes it tough.

    Everything requires work. I could easily flip burgers all day and make money but I won't make the money I want.

    It's all in how much you want to put in the time to learn and succeed.
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  • Profile picture of the author NinjaTech
    well said. anything you need to succeed in requires an education or learning /training. Nothing in life is given to you.
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  • Profile picture of the author steve-wilkins
    I don't believe every newbie should be bundled in with the rest. Yes some think all they have to do is buy the next great product and let the dust gather whilst their bank balances swell but there are others like myself who got themselves into Internet marketing because they were fascinated with the engineering of it.

    I for one love a challenge and love learning new sales and marketing techniques as well as learning the technology of using FTP etc etc.

    Unfortunately there are a lot of unethical marketers out there who not only promise false riches but also false hope.

    I have purchased some rather high ticket Internet marketing products, from what are considered top marketers who offered to allow me to JV with them if I bought their product or who promised in their sales letter, to promote my product on their/blog list after buying their new latest and greatest product.

    Unfortunately none of this came to frutition and after many attempts of contacting them I always got the same auto-responders reply of ''thanks for contacting us, we will get back in touch in the next 24 hours''

    Well if 24 hrs means 10 months or never then I guess I am in a different time zone to these top marketers completely or is it just again more hype and false promises that lures us newbie's into buying these products and making them richer and us ever poorer!

    I am not one to complain about marketers sales techniques, I use many of them myself but if you are going to offer a bonus or make a promise of help and assistance then you should at least stand by that offer.

    I recently launched my latest product where I offer unlimited support to the package and for this I had to set up an entitle support desk to deal with any queries and offer my support but some of these top marketers who offer the same deal think its just fine to have auto-responder message set up and then never come through on their offer of support.

    I personally feel sorry for any ''newbie'' just getting into internet marketing, as the sales hype is getting better and the bonuses are out of this world, it would be hard for any new IM to resist the hype and I can't blame them in many ways for being hypnotised by these IM giants and their play on words. I'm just glad I'm a little further down then line and stuck with it because now I know that the hard work really does pay off.

    Just a side note, although this was a bit of a groan and a moan I must mention that I have also had the pleaure of dealing with some very high profile ETHICAL marketers who stand by their offers. Unfortuantley the ethical ones are a little harder to track down.

    Just my 2 or shoould I say 200 cents!
    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Online Bliss
    You know what makes me sick? That almost every single newbie thinks he can come online and get "rich" without investing anything.
    Isn't that what most unethical marketers want?
    A quick sale to an uninformed newbie promising the moon.
    The newbie is not entirely responsible for your sickness.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Ratliff
    The "free mindset" kills many internet marketing ventures before they start. I think most people (myself included) have allowed themselves, just for a few seconds, minutes, hours, days, months, etc... to fall for the "making money online is easy" illusion.

    It is easy, once you develop and focus enough momentum to do so.

    Great post Martin.
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  • Profile picture of the author cfv
    Great Post.

    I work in my pj's and make a great income! I profited over $30,000 so far this month. And you can do it, too!

    I also bought all the guru products and with each purchase I found I always needed more information. I think every newbie should find a glossary of IM terms and educate themselves. Many of those "get rich quick" schemes have something to offer- but you must have the know-how, tools and skills to take action!

    My best advice is to find a personal mentor! There are many mastermind groups here to join, too.
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  • Profile picture of the author ckboddic
    You wouldn't be promoting that $97 thing you're selling now would you? That's what irritates me.
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  • Profile picture of the author RevShareNow
    In "Outliers" Malcom Gladwell describes a theory that says you need to invest 10,000 hours before you can achieve a level of competency that he calls "mastery". A few years ago, I think it was much easier to make a lot of money in internet marketing before you'd put in the time to acheive mastery. It's getting much more competitive now and I think unless you are incredibly smart or lucky or both it is very difficult to make a lot of money in internet marketing before you've learned the ropes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron.
    I've just read yet another post from a single-digit WF newbie asking (or maybe it was begging) for someone to tell them how to make money easily online.

    Ok, big deal, they asked a harmless question. That's what being NEW is about. You cannnot fault a guy for that. Instead of posting another "tired" thread about mindset, why don't you redirect the person and correct their thinking?

    Can you spot the word that makes the request a total nonsense?

    Why is it nonsense? Because you said so?

    Can you see the word that has doomed this newbie to fail?

    No. One word will not cause ANYONE to fail.



    Can you comprehend the mindset that makes failure inevitable?

    No at all. A guy asks one question and you've got him already listed as a failure.

    I'm sure you can.

    The word is easily.

    It might have been easy, easier or easiest.

    Here is a wake up call: Internet marketing isn't easy.

    Yaaaaawn

    Sorry. It had to be said. Making money online - and I mean real money, pay the bills and feed the kids money, consistent, do-it-again-next-month money - that takes effort, skill, experience and work.

    It ain't easy.

    At least, not in the way you've interpreted the word.

    Maybe you're the one that misinterpreted the word. Do you PM the newbie and offer help to clarify their thinking or do you just want them to buy your WSO?

    You see, when we 'experienced' folk say that it is easy we are misleading you badly. We don't really mean easy in the sense that it is so dead simple that an elderly dog can be taught to do it for biscuits. It isn't a self-working party trick.

    They why do you say it? That's the reason why so many people thing IM is easy. Because of guys like you.


    When we say easy we mean that it isn't particularly hard or complicated, it doesn't require years of training and it certainly doesn't need the IQ if Einstein (thank goodness). But it does need consistent, focused, results-centric effort.

    Complex, but not complicated.

    Or to put it another way, work.

    Sorry to burst the bubble.

    Here's a radical idea. Why not go onto a forum for restauranteurs and ask them out of the blue how you can easily start a successful restaurant? Do you think they might laugh at you?

    Comparing apples to cherries

    I don't think the restaurant industry promotes how "easy" it is to start a business without a dime and little work like the IM industry does. When was the last time you saw a add about a restaurant that said: How to turn 2 hours a day into a full-time income".

    You've never seen it. When was the last time you've seen a add like that for IM? Hell, I saw one in you signature.


    How about plumbers? Try asking a bunch of them how you can easily make a grand a month with no outlay fixing people's radiators? Do you think they might think you're a bit crazy?

    See above response.

    Ah. you might say, "those are real life businesses - I'm talking about making money online."

    SLAP! (I hope you felt that round the side of your head.)

    Yaaawn

    What makes you think that a business (for that is what making $1000 or more a month is) online is any different to one offline? Business is business and the people who understand that and treat it with the respect it requires are half way to doing well.

    You're assuming a lot.

    Making REAL money online isn't a game. Okay, at the lower end it can be a paying hobby, but for those of us who support our families and save money for a rainy day, this is real life.

    And when you are just starting out, it isn't 'easy'.

    Over time it does get easier, but if you are a newbie understand this: you will have to learn some skills, you will have to spend some money, you will have to work some things out for yourself, you will have to stand on your own feet, you will have to (cover your ears and eyes if you are of a nervous disposition) ...

    Work.



    I find your entire post to be tired and full of B.S.. You say one thing but your signature says another.









    Originally Posted by Martin.Avis View Post

    I've just read yet another post from a single-digit WF newbie asking (or maybe it was begging) for someone to tell them how to make money easily online.

    Can you spot the word that makes the request a total nonsense?

    Can you see the word that has doomed this newbie to fail?

    Can you comprehend the mindset that makes failure inevitable?

    I'm sure you can.

    The word is easily.

    It might have been easy, easier or easiest.

    Here is a wake up call: Internet marketing isn't easy.

    Sorry. It had to be said. Making money online - and I mean real money, pay the bills and feed the kids money, consistent, do-it-again-next-month money - that takes effort, skill, experience and work.

    It ain't easy.

    At least, not in the way you've interpreted the word.

    You see, when we 'experienced' folk say that it is easy we are misleading you badly. We don't really mean easy in the sense that it is so dead simple that an elderly dog can be taught to do it for biscuits. It isn't a self-working party trick.

    When we say easy we mean that it isn't particularly hard or complicated, it doesn't require years of training and it certainly doesn't need the IQ if Einstein (thank goodness). But it does need consistent, focused, results-centric effort.

    Complex, but not complicated.

    Or to put it another way, work.

    Sorry to burst the bubble.

    Here's a radical idea. Why not go onto a forum for restauranteurs and ask them out of the blue how you can easily start a successful restaurant? Do you think they might laugh at you?

    How about plumbers? Try asking a bunch of them how you can easily make a grand a month with no outlay fixing people's radiators? Do you think they might think you're a bit crazy?

    Ah. you might say, "those are real life businesses - I'm talking about making money online."

    SLAP! (I hope you felt that round the side of your head.)

    What makes you think that a business (for that is what making $1000 or more a month is) online is any different to one offline? Business is business and the people who understand that and treat it with the respect it requires are half way to doing well.

    Making REAL money online isn't a game. Okay, at the lower end it can be a paying hobby, but for those of us who support our families and save money for a rainy day, this is real life.

    And when you are just starting out, it isn't 'easy'.

    Over time it does get easier, but if you are a newbie understand this: you will have to learn some skills, you will have to spend some money, you will have to work some things out for yourself, you will have to stand on your own feet, you will have to (cover your ears and eyes if you are of a nervous disposition) ...

    Work.


    Martin
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    "Perseverance is a great element of success. If you only knock long enough and loud enough at the gate, you are sure to wake up somebody"
    -Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
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