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All about coaches... See if you agree...

by freeabs
9 replies
Well, I am going to start a pretty controversial topic and I am sure many will have different experiences but I am relating mine here and so far it has not been good.

Over the past 7 years, I have signed up for the services of no less than 8 coaches. They range from a modest $67 to a whopping $2500. Sad to say, NONE of these so called coaches delivers on the coaching itself let alone their promises, not even close.

This was what I went through before the coaching:

1) All the coaching were done through SKYPE. Before they take my money, they will be very responsive and answer my queries in like 10 seconds literally. They will be very helpful, answering all my questions, promising me this and that. They will show me screenshots, probably even live videos of results etc... All this is done to entice me to take up their coaching. Nothing wrong with that cos that's marketing, I understand.

2) I was also promised daily SKYPE sessions at a set time to go through daily tasks and milestone to get to the target.

3) I was also promised tailored coaching to suit my needs.

4) I was also promised tools and softwares that they are using

5) I was also promised access to their Email lists of thousand subscribers and buyers to send out offers etc.

This is the reality AFTER I signed up and they take my money

1) In the beginning, they will throw me a bunch of videos, manuals and some general instrcutions. They will then tell me to go through them and come back if I have any questions. So I went thorugh these videos and instrcutions and of course I have plenty of questions. This is where the problems start... continue point 2

2) Response will be very slow when you ping them on SKYPE. gone are the 10 seconds reply and you will be happy if they get back to you in 24 hours. I have coaches who don't answer me in 5 days. Even reponses will mostly be one sentence with no further explanations.

Gone are also the scheduled daily SKYPE sessions as everything will be impromtu. I got a question, I PING them and crossed my fingers and hoped they answer. What daily task? What targets? Nothing of this sort exists anymore. They will tell me to ask a question and they will answer, that's it. How can a student if he is new to a certain business model grasp the concept of what he is trying to learn by watching and reading some instructions? Sometimes, I don't even know what to ask. I was literally left alone to wander in the dark trying to find the answers myself.

3) What tailored coaching? I soon realized I am but just ANOTHER sucker student who signed up and being thown some generic videos to follow and tailored coaching is just a fancy word to entice you to join.

4) Tools and softwares? Huh... this is a joke because I was promised access to paid versions of their softwares but after signing up I was directed to trial versions and expected to pay the full price with their affiliate links.

5) Well, their so called Email list is a few Freebies seekers. So much for thousands of subscribers and buyers list.

My biggest gripe in all this is that the so called coaching is NOT intended as it is. Don't expect to throw a bunch of videos and instructions to your students and wait for them to ask you then you answer. This is not coaching. This is Q&A.

Don't be a coach if you are not prepared to spend time guiding your students. Students take up coaching becuase they need guidance, not necessarily hand holding. They also need motivation and encouragement and it needs to be part of the coach's job to give that. For example, you engaged a tennis coach and he just throws you a bunch of tennis videos for you to watch and then tells you to ask him if you do not understand any part, do you think you will go very far in tennis?

Don't be a coach if you read a WSO somewhere that tells you that coaching is lucrative and it's like taking candy from a kid and you do not need any experience to do it.

My conclusion is this. The coaches I have met have only one goal on their mind. Hope you go away in time and don't bother them anymore. They achieved this by constantly frustrating you with their one sentence reply, late responses and vague answers. And in many cases, students will just give up and move on.

This IS actually a highly used business model in the IM industry.

To conclude, please REMEMBER that I am NOT thrashing all coaches cos I am sure there are many good and responsible coaches out there but so far I have yet to meet one. Please relate your experiences here. Thank you.
#agree #coaches
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  • Profile picture of the author King Manu
    Where did you get these coaches from? Isn't there a way to leave some honest reviews about it?

    I am sure other people would wish to know these things before buying from them.

    If you bought from someone that doesn't provide a way to give reviews or has a platform of these sorts, what were you thinking?

    I am sorry this happened to you, and something needs to be done so these so-called coaches don't trick other people as well. What you describe to receive isn't coaching at all. It's scamming.

    Btw, did you had a detailed description of what are you going to receive after payment? If so, what you received after payment was the same? If not, that's scamming and they shouldn't get away with it.

    It doesn't matter what service you buy. It could be web design or car washing. You are entitled to get what you were promised before payment.
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    • Profile picture of the author freeabs
      Originally Posted by King Manu View Post

      Where did you get these coaches from? Isn't there a way to leave some honest reviews about it?

      I am sure other people would wish to know these things before buying from them.

      If you bought from someone that doesn't provide a way to give reviews or has a platform of these sorts, what were you thinking?

      I am sorry this happened to you, and something needs to be done so these so-called coaches don't trick other people as well. What you describe to receive isn't coaching at all. It's scamming.

      Btw, did you had a detailed description of what are you going to receive after payment? If so, what you received after payment was the same? If not, that's scamming and they shouldn't get away with it.

      It doesn't matter what service you buy. It could be web design or car washing. You are entitled to get what you were promised before payment.
      A few things I have learnt regarding reviews. Most of them are fake... either they are done by their friends, other dummy accounts or someone paid to do it. As for leaving my own reviews, many of them were removed from the thread when you speak the truth. And when I tell the so called coaches that I am not learning anything, they will push the blame back on me. I got most of the coaches here on WF and some of them are still active.
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  • Profile picture of the author jmosticc22
    I have run into this a few times and yes it runs rampant in the IM space. It is almost like a bait and switch scheme, once they are paid your on the back burner and that "coach" is looking for another "student".
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Interesting...I've had a totally different experience over the years. I am a coach and I hire coaches.

    Why not find a peer group like the Coaching Jungle on Facebook, and pick a coach from in there. Then if you get "put on the back burner" you have a platform to publicly call them out on.

    $2500 is not a "whopping" amount, by the way...I guess it is from the weird microcosm of WF standards but that's cheap in the real world. As a co-founder of a third party closing-as-a-service business, I can tell you we sold programs minimum $4K through $15K. Our clients were solving big problems for real businesses, not folks who think $500 is "a lot of money." To grow you have to get out of that poor headspace.

    Some questions I would ask coaches you're interested in hiring:

    What's the process like for working with you? (They should be explaining this anyway; not telling you demonstrates they really haven't done it before and don't have it worked out.)

    What guarantee do you offer? (Mine is: as long as you are working, I'll continue to work with you until you at least make your investment back. From 7+ years of coaching experience, I can tell you most of the time clients screw around, delay, and do NOT put in the effort required. They expect the coach to do it for them. And that's on the client, not the coach. Do I screen for this? Heavily. But it still comes up occasionally.)

    What do you do if I disappear?

    What do I do if you disappear?

    (I would couch these last two with some softening language...explaining that life does get in the way sometimes and either side may not be able to meet their obligations in the short term. So what does that look like? Getting agreement NOW will set up a process for and avoid a fight LATER.)

    Pay by credit card or Paypal so you have some recourse if they do flake out. Credit card companies always side with the buyer (that's you) and in general Paypal does as well. But if you launch a frivolous refund request because you can't pay your rent, God help you.


    I believe most of the problem with coaches is they do not have full clarity on what their business actually is. What they should be doing is picking up clients at point A, and driving them to point B where they drop them off at that destination. I see a fog of confusion out there for most coaches about this concept. They haven't identified a point A or B for their service or clients.

    Consequently they take anyone who comes along with a dollar in their jeans as a client, and get that person on the bus for a "Who knows where we'll end up?" journey.

    The business I run today is all about getting that clarity in place. It leads to a ton of goodness in terms of throughput, outcomes, effects, profitability for both buyer and seller, and so on.


    Another factor we should talk about is lack of clarity in the BUYER's mind. Why did you get the coaching? Was it because the offer "sounded good" (shiny object)? Or had you identified a real gap that needed to be filled or overcome to move forward? Here on WF, I find the latter is rare. Most people here are floating around, looking for magic bullets, jumping on the shiny object train for a one way ride every six to eight weeks, putting in effort for a whole THREE DAYS! and then giving up.

    So look to yourself for some failure factors. Yeah, it's not nice, but it's true.
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    • Profile picture of the author freeabs
      Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

      Interesting...I've had a totally different experience over the years. I am a coach and I hire coaches.

      Why not find a peer group like the Coaching Jungle on Facebook, and pick a coach from in there. Then if you get "put on the back burner" you have a platform to publicly call them out on.

      $2500 is not a "whopping" amount, by the way...I guess it is from the weird microcosm of WF standards but that's cheap in the real world. As a co-founder of a third party closing-as-a-service business, I can tell you we sold programs minimum $4K through $15K. Our clients were solving big problems for real businesses, not folks who think $500 is "a lot of money." To grow you have to get out of that poor headspace.

      Some questions I would ask coaches you're interested in hiring:

      What's the process like for working with you? (They should be explaining this anyway; not telling you demonstrates they really haven't done it before and don't have it worked out.)

      What guarantee do you offer? (Mine is: as long as you are working, I'll continue to work with you until you at least make your investment back. From 7+ years of coaching experience, I can tell you most of the time clients screw around, delay, and do NOT put in the effort required. They expect the coach to do it for them. And that's on the client, not the coach. Do I screen for this? Heavily. But it still comes up occasionally.)

      What do you do if I disappear?

      What do I do if you disappear?

      (I would couch these last two with some softening language...explaining that life does get in the way sometimes and either side may not be able to meet their obligations in the short term. So what does that look like? Getting agreement NOW will set up a process for and avoid a fight LATER.)

      Pay by credit card or Paypal so you have some recourse if they do flake out. Credit card companies always side with the buyer (that's you) and in general Paypal does as well. But if you launch a frivolous refund request because you can't pay your rent, God help you.


      I believe most of the problem with coaches is they do not have full clarity on what their business actually is. What they should be doing is picking up clients at point A, and driving them to point B where they drop them off at that destination. I see a fog of confusion out there for most coaches about this concept. They haven't identified a point A or B for their service or clients.

      Consequently they take anyone who comes along with a dollar in their jeans as a client, and get that person on the bus for a "Who knows where we'll end up?" journey.

      The business I run today is all about getting that clarity in place. It leads to a ton of goodness in terms of throughput, outcomes, effects, profitability for both buyer and seller, and so on.


      Another factor we should talk about is lack of clarity in the BUYER's mind. Why did you get the coaching? Was it because the offer "sounded good" (shiny object)? Or had you identified a real gap that needed to be filled or overcome to move forward? Here on WF, I find the latter is rare. Most people here are floating around, looking for magic bullets, jumping on the shiny object train for a one way ride every six to eight weeks, putting in effort for a whole THREE DAYS! and then giving up.

      So look to yourself for some failure factors. Yeah, it's not nice, but it's true.
      The clarity is always there. To get guided training on a proven business model, not a loophole, shiny object, etc. I am sure many students who take up coaching lacked one thing, confidence. So the guided training is a way for the coach to impart his knowledge as well as to instill confidence in his students that what he is doing is correct and will lead to results. That's all I need from a coach.
      Not sure about others but having paid for coaching, I do make sure I get my money's worth and not slack off and that's where the disappointment starts because the coach do not share the same level of motivation and enthusiasm as me.
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  • Profile picture of the author IGotMine
    Over the past 7 years, I have signed up for the services of no less than 8 coaches. They range from a modest $67 to a whopping $2500
    With that money, you could have set up a simple sales funnel and sent a boatload of traffic to it. But that would be the uncomplicated thing to do, and if it's not complex it's not cool.

    How much coaching does it take to do KW research, set up simple funnels, analyze test results and adjust?

    The reality is, most people who hire IM coaches should not be trying to build an online business under any circumstances. Why not be a brain surgeon or NASCAR driver or rock star? No experience necessary, anyone can do it!

    I started my marketing career around age eight when I would open my "outdoor Life" or "Fur-Fish-Game" from the back because I was fascinated by the classified ads and the idea that people sent other people money through the mail. I'm a "natural-born" marketer.

    I've had numerous people approach me about "coaching" over the years. I tell them all the same thing - "Get a job."
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      Interesting take you have there, but not useful to you or other people.


      There are people who, like you, did it all on their own and a year or two later they're making $5k a month. Coaching, from a good coach, would have gotten them there faster. Or to 15k a month in a year.


      If you're buying coaching for the right reasons and find yourself a good coach, it can be really cheap in relation to the time it saves you.



      Originally Posted by IGotMine View Post

      With that money, you could have set up a simple sales funnel and sent a boatload of traffic to it. But that would be the uncomplicated thing to do, and if it's not complex it's not cool.

      How much coaching does it take to do KW research, set up simple funnels, analyze test results and adjust?

      The reality is, most people who hire IM coaches should not be trying to build an online business under any circumstances. Why not be a brain surgeon or NASCAR driver or rock star? No experience necessary, anyone can do it!

      I started my marketing career around age eight when I would open my "outdoor Life" or "Fur-Fish-Game" from the back because I was fascinated by the classified ads and the idea that people sent other people money through the mail. I'm a "natural-born" marketer.

      I've had numerous people approach me about "coaching" over the years. I tell them all the same thing - "Get a job."
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      • Profile picture of the author freeabs
        Originally Posted by DABK View Post

        Interesting take you have there, but not useful to you or other people.


        There are people who, like you, did it all on their own and a year or two later they're making $5k a month. Coaching, from a good coach, would have gotten them there faster. Or to 15k a month in a year.


        If you're buying coaching for the right reasons and find yourself a good coach, it can be really cheap in relation to the time it saves you.
        I agree. That's one of the reason I took up coaching and the other is that a good coach can instill confidence in you, which every student really needs.
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    • Profile picture of the author freeabs
      Originally Posted by IGotMine View Post

      With that money, you could have set up a simple sales funnel and sent a boatload of traffic to it. But that would be the uncomplicated thing to do, and if it's not complex it's not cool.

      How much coaching does it take to do KW research, set up simple funnels, analyze test results and adjust?

      The reality is, most people who hire IM coaches should not be trying to build an online business under any circumstances. Why not be a brain surgeon or NASCAR driver or rock star? No experience necessary, anyone can do it!

      I started my marketing career around age eight when I would open my "outdoor Life" or "Fur-Fish-Game" from the back because I was fascinated by the classified ads and the idea that people sent other people money through the mail. I'm a "natural-born" marketer.

      I've had numerous people approach me about "coaching" over the years. I tell them all the same thing - "Get a job."
      Unfortunately, I am not as smart as you and I still need to hang out on this forum, if you know what I mean...
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