Why does everyone want to give up the IM niche?

by Ron Douglas 29 replies
I'm not sure where I'm going with this post. I'm just taking a break and this was on my mind...

Everyone I talk to these days is moving away from the IM niche. It seems like that's the goal for even successful marketers in this niche. You even see posts saying "here's how I'm leaving IM..." etc.

Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but I see a trend of people either wanting to get established in other markets or thankful that they already are.

It's funny because I've been successful outside of the IM niche for years and I'm now getting more involved in this market - which is the opposite of what others seem to be doing. They tell me to stay away. LOL

One guy I know has been in IM since 1999 and has 50 products for this market. He's asking me for advice on finding a good niche because the IM market is "just not what it used to be."

What do you think is the reason?

I'm just going to throw some of the things I've heard out there - could it be:

- It's becoming too tough to sell cars to car salesmen who already know it all?
- The top guys are stealing all the market share with product launches?
- Devaluation of ebooks due to $7 reports and cheap WSOs
- Low conversions and open rates on emails?
- Too much competition?
- The relatively ridiculous amount of perceived value you have to offer just to sell a $37 product?
- Rehashed and unoriginal PLR and ghost written content?
- Jaded customers who have "been hurt/scammed before?"
- The short product life span?
- High refund rates?
- Fake it until you make it posers?
- The haters, copycats, and scammers?
- More revenue potential in other niches?

Please tell me that all the things I'm hearing about this market is BS and the opportunity has never been better.
#main internet marketing discussion forum #give #niche
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    Hey Ron

    You make some interesting points...

    Personally my journey has been the same as yours... I made my bones outside the IM niche... i've been flogging horse riding equipment, acne products, weight loss and sports for years...from MLM, direct sales, affiliate....

    Only now have I decided to step into the IM niche because I feel I have cut my teeth and know how to show people what I have done and am still doing. I am looking at it like any other niche though...

    Educate myself (pretty much taken care of).. and then provide abundantly.

    Don't listen to those that are choosing other avenues... you'll find niche switching is common all over, it just seems more prolific here because it's an IM forum..

    Peace

    Jay
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  • Profile picture of the author MomOnline
    I agree with those who say that the Internet Marketing Arena is a tough niche to break into. I think that the big guys have it pretty much wrapped up and all the reasons you mentioned are valid reasons.

    The competition is so very fierce and it's sad how so many great products are so undervalued. Promises of easy money have left many people disillusioned and cynical, which makes it even harder to build trust with your target market.
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    • Profile picture of the author WebGato
      Originally Posted by MomOnline View Post

      The competition is so very fierce and it's sad how so many great products are so undervalued. Promises of easy money have left many people disillusioned and cynical, which makes it even harder to build trust with your target market.
      I think one of the reason's so many great products have to be undervalued is because so many crappy products are overpriced.

      People are so skeptical because they've paid $47, $97, $497, $997 and higher for products that didn't deliver what the sales letter promiced, not even close.

      John P
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      • Profile picture of the author Neil Morgan
        >>Why does everyone want to give up the IM niche?

        Of course, the short answer is, not everyone does.

        New things are happening every day. Think back two years - a lot of the stuff that IMers and doing and teaching hadn't even been thought of.

        And there's a lot more to come.

        Cheers,

        Neil
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
    Ron, quite honestly, I'd just be guessing at this because I haven't conducted
    any in depth surveys to see why it's harder to sell in IM, if indeed it really is.

    I had my best year last year and this year I'm only 4K from breaking it with
    3 months plus left to go.

    And yet, I want to move away from IM as well.

    For more, it's less to do with how hard it is and more to do with all the
    negativity around it. I don't find this true in the other niches that I'm in.
    Heck, I have some niches that I NEVER even hear from my customers. They
    buy the stuff and that's it. In IM, it's different. You have a lot of people
    complaining about "this doesn't work" or "why is this so expensive" or "can
    you give me your other product with it for free" and on and on.

    In other niches, you just don't get this stuff and it's a pleasure. I have
    never seen such a stress free business model as when I really dove in
    head first into affiliate marketing OUTSIDE of IM. I promote about 20
    products that have nothing to do with making money and I average
    about $520 a month income for each. Some higher, some lower. Heck, I
    don't do as well with my own products, so why bust my tail with this niche?

    If I had the knowledge of other things like "debt relief" and stuff like that,
    I'd create my own products outside of IM. But I don't. So I don the next
    best thing...promote affiliate products.

    It's bringing me in over 10K a month so who's to complain?

    I guess it comes down to how hard or easy you want it to be for YOU
    and that answer is going to be different for everybody.

    Some people think the IM niche is a breeze. I don't. I see how much effort
    I have to put into it, probably because of all the big names I'm up against.

    But outside of IM, heck, most of your "average" consumers don't know
    one person selling this stuff from another, especially since there are so
    many pen names out there. And even with the real names, how many
    average Jane Does know who Dan Kennedy is?

    It's just a different world outside of IM. For one thing, you don't have to
    prove you make any money with any of that stuff. Sure, you need other
    kinds of proof, but it's just not as hard to furnish.

    And even in IM when you can prove you earn money, your 10K a month
    isn't going to compete with John Reese's 100K a month, or whatever
    insane figure he earns. HE'S the person IMers are going to want to learn
    from...no matter how successful John Doe is.

    Anyway, that's my 2.5 cents on the subject.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marian Berghes
    i personally consider that to be successful in the IM niche, you have to do it by having "Big guns" behind you, people don't trust testimonials that much anymore and all the stuff, some friends told me that they got emails from subscribers asking them if they paid the guy to do the video testimonial. People don't have the trust they used to have.
    Thats why i think its better to work as a team or something, or get some well known marketer(s), not exactly like Reese but around there, and use them as "backup", cus i've seen that people tend to trust products that have X marketer promoting it/co-developing it.
    A one man stand in IM seems like a bad idea now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Monetize
    Most people should be diversified with other niches
    and income streams anyway - to rely solely on the
    IM niche when it's getting oversaturated is foolish.

    When every website you visit is a squeeze page, is
    it any wonder that people aren't opening their emails
    anymore? They are bombarded with tons of e-mails
    in their inboxes every day and they probably don't
    have time to open them all.

    Even so, there will always be money to be made in
    the IM niche because so many people want to get
    a piece of the action.
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  • Profile picture of the author braver55b
    It seems like almost everytime you turn around, there's a marketer who will say I make my money in niche markets and I'm leaving IM and at this time they will have a big "farewell" sale.

    Others give up because of all the competition.
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    • Profile picture of the author Neil Morgan
      and at this time they will have a big "farewell" sale.
      ...and often, after [insert time period here], they're back again!

      Cheers,

      Neil
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    • Profile picture of the author Tuzic
      Banned
      hi,

      there's a lot of competition now compared to before & its made a lot harder due to this reason & the reasons listed in the 1st post.
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  • Profile picture of the author sinela
    You have included almost all reasons that make people to give up from IM. I’d like just to stress on E-mail marketing mentioned by Monetize. We all agree that “Money in the List” but Spam E-mails have compromised the idea of E-mail marketing. So, Internet Marketers cannot communicate with their lists to make sales.
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    • Profile picture of the author Neil Morgan
      So, Internet Marketers cannot communicate with their lists to make sales.
      Except, they do communicate with them and they do make sales. Lots of sales.

      Cheers,

      Neil
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    • Profile picture of the author Ricter
      I wonder if "how to make money with your telephone" was ever a hot niche, say when the telephone became common...
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    In the IM industry sometimes it is just best to be low profile. There are lots of folks that actually create the high-end IM products and have arrangements with high profile Marketers to do the actual marketing.

    Jeffery 100% :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Stephen Dillon
    Steven,

    I really like your post as I really believe its easier to become and expert outside of the IM niche and it is easier to get people exited about things that matter to them.

    Health issues
    Saving on energy costs
    How to deal with debt

    There is just more urgency and personnel involvement by the masses in these niches. Its easy to feel good about supplying information to the people who really need it.

    Stephen
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  • Profile picture of the author tecHead
    Originally Posted by Ron Douglas View Post

    ... Everyone I talk to these days is moving away from the IM niche. It seems like that's the goal for even successful marketers in this niche. You even see posts saying "here's how I'm leaving IM..." etc.
    Ya know, Ron... (IMHO) seems to me that everyone who's responded, thus far (as I type this) has missed a very key element, here.

    I think it was John Reese who I heard first say it, "Even Google is in the Internet Marketing niche."

    ...and when you think about it, he's right and I agree.

    How can one market any product/service on the Internet without being involved in Internet Marketing?

    What do you think is the reason?

    I'm just going to throw some of the things I've heard out there - could it be:

    - It's becoming too tough to sell cars to car salesmen who already know it all?
    - The top guys are stealing all the market share with product launches?
    - Devaluation of ebooks due to $7 reports and cheap WSOs
    - Low conversions and open rates on emails?
    - Too much competition?
    - The relatively ridiculous amount of perceived value you have to offer just to sell a $37 product?
    - Rehashed and unoriginal PLR and ghost written content?
    - Jaded customers who have "been hurt/scammed before?"
    - The short product life span?
    - High refund rates?
    - Fake it until you make it posers?
    - The haters, copycats, and scammers?
    - More revenue potential in other niches?

    Please tell me that all the things I'm hearing about this market is BS and the opportunity has never been better.
    All of the scenarios you have posted here have their level of truth; but not just in the Internet Marketing niche. I've been doing business on the Internet since '97; from supplying research paper writing facilities for college students -- to running a marketing campaign for Fubu's annual bash thrown in Miami -- to teaching individuals how to drive traffic to their web sites... and I've run into one or more of the above scenarios in each area.

    (again IMHO) I think the real problems surrounding the IM "niche"; meaning the selling of Internet Marketing materials, teachings and tools are as follows...

    • There are very few vendors who practice tried and proven Business 101/102
    • There are very few vendors who practice tried and proven Accounting principles in their business model(s)
    • There are very few, (if any), "marketers" in the IM niche that have actually studied in an accredited environment; such as a true "business school".

    All of which constitute a certain level of chaos when it comes to doing business on a wide scale; as Fortune 1000 to Fortune 100 businesses have figured out over the last three or so centuries.

    If more IM'ers were to actively practice the principles that have been taught in business schools such as Stearns and Harvard; (and even less accredited institutions); we would find more conglomerates and truly innovative; (instead of 'reactive'); products in the IM niche.

    Yet, until we do, your above stated scenarios will hold more true than not and something I remember hearing Howie Schwartz say while we ate at an Italian restaurant in Vegas, "... one of the biggest problems with the IM niche is that there's no new money coming in...", will be true.

    Just my 2¢
    PLP,
    tecHead
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  • Profile picture of the author Stanley Tang
    Cause the IM niche is small. People want to do something bigger or different.
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    • Profile picture of the author Wild Boom
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      • Profile picture of the author Phil Jacobson
        Originally Posted by Wild Boom View Post

        No its not small ITS HUGE........

        insurance $17.41 49,893.5 $868,645.81

        Internet Marketing

        cost/Click: $1.04 - $6.29
        Advertisers: 20


        Clicks/Day: 34.8 - 44.0
        -19 (-35.29 %) Search Results: 97,500,000
        -2,100,000 (-2.11 %)

        Cost/Day: $36.11 - $280.00


        I gets it small then compared to other niches... ://
        I don't know how accurate your figures are but it is interesting to think that IM is just another niche out there in the world of the internet. I sometimes get to thinking that this place is "it" , but there is so much out there. abundance. abundance.


        Phil
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  • Profile picture of the author imaddict
    Originally Posted by Ron Douglas View Post

    One guy I know has been in IM since 1999 and has 50 products for this market. He's asking me for advice on finding a good niche because the IM market is "just not what it used to be."
    I'll probably get flamed for saying this but I don't care...

    How the h*ll can someone have 50 (FIVE - ZERO!) products out that teach people how to make money online yet can't pick a good niche?!!!

    What does he recommend in his products and why doesn't he follow his own advice?!!!

    Truth be told, the MMO niche is FULL of con artists that couldn't sell water in the dessert and have to rely on unsuspecting n00b's to pimp their wares (hey... look at all the money I make each month and you can QUICKLY AND EASILY do the same!)

    Only thing is... they omit the fact that they make all this money (that's IF they even make any serious coin) by selling exclusively MMO products and then recommend to their customers to pick a niche, e.g. gardening, and do as they do and get ready to 'stuff their bank accounts with cash')

    Pathetic...
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    It's about time someone stepped up to the plate to tell it LIKE IT IS: MUST READ for ALL IMers
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  • Profile picture of the author Gene Pimentel
    One reason that wasn't touched on that I think plays a major role in moving to non-IM niches is simply that society (friends, family, acquaintances) look upon "money making opportunities" on the internet as a playground for scammers and rip-off artists, and as an Internet Marketer, that indirectly affects your relationships with the people you care about most. It may not be on a conscious level, but it's there. Just like when you hear uncle Fred is a used car salesman... it paints a picture in your mind that may be far from the truth, but it does affect how someone is perceived.
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    Expensive? No its not. Most people are also VERY lazy and expect push button success. If real life isn't like that then why would they think otherwise online? And like I said it is not expensive. Daniel Molano's awesome WSO proved that you can make a living online using free traffic tactics. But the rub is that most people don't actually want to WORK after their WORK. I can remember many times when I was up til 3 in the morning after my day job coding websites. And I was successful. The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.
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  • Profile picture of the author geoffcruz
    I think the reason why a lot of marketers are moving away from the IM niche is because of the sheer work you have to do to sell. Compared to other niches you don’t need to do a lot of work to sell. Most of the guys who want to move away from the IM niche are the people who did not do well in the market.

    I think the IM market will always be profitable, its like the lifeblood of commerce in the internet.


    Money Siphon System
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  • Profile picture of the author John Hillage
    I have taken a similar step to you Ron going from non-IM to IM. To be honest I've done OK in both and feel that often there is often a lot of "smoke and mirrors" going on when people make BIG DRAMATIC announcements about leaving IM. In a similar way to musicians making their last records before retiring, only to then record another 6 months later!
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    • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
      Originally Posted by Ron Douglas View Post

      - Too much competition?
      Too much competition is a great thing. Its good for customers as it gives them a choice and its good for marketers because it could be a sign that there is a big market for this.

      There is a lot of competition and the guys who just rip people off will eventually be wiped out of business. The make money niche is big and its only going to get bigger. The internet is still small. Its still young. You should be capitalizing on the make money niche, if thats what you enjoy because it should be profitable.

      Saturation? Smart marketers aren't worried about that.

      Since there is a lot of competition in the make money niche, one must be creative and provide quality. With good marketing, one could stand to make a lot of money.

      Originally Posted by tecHead View Post

      How can one market any product/service on the Internet without being involved in Internet Marketing?
      You can have a website and internet product/service and NOT market online. You should be marketing online, but marketing offline is still successful. You just need to be creative and put in the work.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bearded
    Yes, IM is too competitive and unprofitable. You should all get out of this niche now.

    Seriously, though, IM is one of the most ravenous markets out there. There will always be new techniques.

    As long as there's an internet, there will always be TONS of money to be made in the "make money online" niche.

    Joe
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel E Taylor
    My personal opinion is that people are just tired
    of the here is my $34,8345 ClickBank Secret Cash
    Machine!

    And its some bullshit that is never quite as duplicatable
    as the owner seems.

    And alot of these guys who sell this shit are supposed
    to be "guru's".

    I think what you are starting to see is people wanting
    the total package.

    They will spend $1k-$2k on something that will take them
    from their current situation to actually making money.

    That includes mindset. Because reality is it doesn't
    matter how many "e-books" you buy many of them wont
    work for your if your mindset is screwed up.

    So thats why I think you are seeing such a big gap
    between the Frank Kerns, John Reeses, Eban Pegans,
    and the guys who sell that "Clickbank Cash Machine
    bullshit.

    It's the QUALITY.

    There is still plenty of room to make it in the IM niche for
    someone who wants to actually put a quality course
    together, and not some bullshit quick ebook and try
    to get "gurus" to send it to their list, and brag about how
    much money they made later.

    Daniel
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    • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
      Originally Posted by Daniel E Taylor View Post

      It's the QUALITY.

      There is still plenty of room to make it in the IM niche for
      someone who wants to actually put a quality course
      together, and not some bullshit quick ebook and try
      to get "gurus" to send it to their list, and brag about how
      much money they made later.

      Daniel
      I agree 100% with this. The market is there.

      And it will be there for a while.

      The only question should be is- can you make money successfully in a make money niche?

      The internet is still in its infancy.

      NOW is the time to capitalize, make money, and build a long lasting brand and image...
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  • Ron,

    I appreciate your thoughts. I too love the IM niche and think that as long as you provide value to people, you can make money in any niche.

    However, if you think of it in another way, you should rejoice, because for every ONE person who quits the IM niche (in search of "greener pastures"), you have ONE less competitor.

    Arindam

    P.S. Just thought to crack a joke at your expense
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    • Profile picture of the author fxmmorale
      This was a great post.

      The comments certainly give much food for thought.

      Recently I wrote a short report based on this very topic and if you would like to check it out here's the link:

      http://www.internet-wealth-system.in...hunchained.pdf

      Let me know what you think.

      Nando
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      • Profile picture of the author freudianslip27
        I still think there's plenty of room for profit in IM, but it is certainly quite different to compete in markets that are less competitive. I've seen so many people at the top of other niches leaving so much money on the table cause they don't know how to maximize what their doing.

        I'm thankful for my experience in the IM market, as its made me a much better marketer for dealing with niches outside the realm.

        Matt
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