Bet You Feel Pretty Stupid Now For Following That Guy's Advice, Huh?

by BIG Mike Banned
25 replies
@@@@@@@@@@
#advice #incansoft
  • Profile picture of the author mbacak
    Amen. There are no such thing as "blanket Statements"

    Big Mike, Very good post.
    Signature
    The Listbuilding Club (join by clicking below)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1341593].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author CliveG
    Great advice. I would just like to add that when you have read, listened and decided on an approach, however good it seems, you need to test it. Sorry, no citation or reference for this advice, just my experience.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1341617].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kevinfar
    nice post Big Mike. you always need to test what other people are saying, and never just take everything at face value.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1341684].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    Test, Test, Test

    The ONLY numbers that matter in this business, are your own..imho.

    Kudos to ya, Mike!

    Peace

    Jay
    Signature

    Bare Murkage.........

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1341746].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Ken Leatherman
    Big Mike, as usual you have a way of going to the meat of the matter. Over the last several weeks, I have read post after post of folks making comments that "this is the only way to do it". The harm they can do to someone here by doing this is never considered by them.

    The one thing that stands out to me is when you ask them to provide the data/testing/references/ they never come back and post them. How do I know this because I'm one who has asked them for the proof. IMO folks like Big Mike said "Heads Up" and check out the advice given.

    Ken Leatherman
    The Old Geezer
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1343147].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
    Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

    I've been spending a bit more time than usual around the WF lately and I've noticed something that I find disturbing. This isn't a rant by the way, but more of a friendly "Heads Up" to help you avoid a bit of heartache over some of the "Advice" flowing through here.

    While some people have elevated it to almost an art form, marketing is still a science, and a fairly exact one. Marketing decisions are based on research, testing and analysis - not opinion. Not emotions and personal likes/dislikes. They are also not based on what others do simply because they're doing it.

    When someone starts out giving advice by saying, "Studies show..." or "Statistically...", and don't provide a citation or reference to where they obtained the information, chances are, they're just parroting something they heard elsewhere. So while you read what they've posted, don't necessarily consider it credible unless it's proven.

    Next, you've got to evaluate what you're reading in the context of your own abilities and resources. Can you adapt what's been presented into the framework of your own business plan? Are there any prerequisites that may not have been mentioned that would significantly impact it? How many times did the poster actually replicate what they're advising?

    Many times you'll see someone excitedly posting about what some guru or other is doing and they automatically present it as something everyone should be doing. Well here's a newsflash for you - chances are you're probably not on par with the guru doing it yet, so what makes you think you can implement it with equal success?

    I'll give you a simplified example of this - Yahoo, it seems to me, has copied a lot of what Google has been doing over the past five years. Take for example, Adwords/Adsense - obviously Google has made a fortune with it, but Yahoo continually struggles with their version. Same methods, different resources, it works for Google but not nearly as well for Yahoo.

    I'm not suggesting that you can't or won't eventually reach the point where you can easily implement the things you read about, but if you blindly follow what others are saying/doing without fully understanding and testing their methods, you're going to keep struggling. You may end up doing something illegal or unethical that has a long-term, negative effect on your reputation and business. You may end up wasting a nice chunk of change that could have been put to far more productive use.

    The bottom line is that reading and listening to different viewpoints, ideas and so forth is important...but you will only benefit from them if you have all of the facts available to make informed decisions about what to apply/not apply to your own business activities.
    You must have been reading the same threads as me... haha.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1343175].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
    Well, I 'think' you're wrong...

    No, no, no. Wait...wait... studies show...

    Nah, just kidding - that was a good post... according to the latest research.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1343201].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Marketing is pure science.

    It's a hybrid of a couple of disciplines... behavioral psychology, and statistics & probability.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1343259].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Elmer Hurlstone
      To repeat the words attributed to the great, late, Mark Twain, "
      "All generalizations are false, including this one."


      We should keep that little gem in mind when reading anything that we are intending to use for guidance. Regardless of the area of our lives to which we're considering applying it.

      Well stated point, Mike.

      Elmer
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1343375].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      Marketing is pure science.

      It's a hybrid of a couple of disciplines... behavioral psychology, and statistics & probability.
      I disagree. It's a science, but it's not pure science.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1354977].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Sid Kaplan
    Thanks Mike. As usual your insight coupled with your provable successes provides a clear message, as clear as you can make it.

    Now I happen to know you walk on water BUT I also happen to know that you are aware of were the stones are to do that...lol

    It is kind of like running East looking for a sunset. Ain't going to happen. You have to temper your belief in something with intelligent investigation of the facts. Blind faith is nice and sometimes you luck out but not nearly as often sticking to the facts!

    Again, a pearl of wisdom from you. I for one am grateful you are back with your inspiring tomes!

    Sid

    Free and unsubstantiated advice is probably worth the price one pays for it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1343955].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author IMRookie1
    That's not good news for those looking for a quick-fix. Like me.
    Signature
    Setup Your Philippine Internet Marketing Team quickly with call center seat lease or Find Your Own office space for rent in ortigas. Deal with a Licensed Real Estate Broker.

    Play the Cashflow 101 game with experienced Real Estate Investors.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1344074].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SPress
    Whatever....now you're expecting everyone to start thinking a little?

    But what if I want to do nothing and make $4,356.85 per day? How can I hold onto that dream?

    Studies show that 99% of the people who read your post think it's garbage.





    (yes, I'm being sarcastic)
    Signature

    Have a great day!

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1355051].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
    As a recovering former artist, I have to disagree with everyone who insists on it being entirely based on science. Science can aid it, sure. And ONLY science and math should be used as factors in evaluating success.

    But I believe that persuasion is too deeply rooted to the human experience to be completely separated from being somewhat of an intuitive process. Certainly it has to be at the front end when you're talking about messaging.

    Creativity is a tremendous factor when it comes to things like finding new ways to be incongrous and draw attention to yourself in any given market. It's certainly a factor in copywriting. You can mechanically create a salesletter that contains all the things a salesletter "needs" but it takes an artist to compress a powerful message down to an elegant single sheet of paper that can be cheaply mailed continuously for almost 30 years, like the Conroy Wall Street Journal letter.

    A marketer can get by by only being either an artist or a scientist - I'm definitely way on the art side myself... But to be really TREMENDOUS at it, you need to be BOTH. You need to be empathic and creative on the front end, where your product connects with people. And you need to be analytical and scientific on the back end, where your product connects with figures and measurements and moving parts of your business.

    Another way to think of it is that science can tell you that you should test your headline and keep the winner on a rolling basis. But the art is in coming up with things to try in the test.

    The way this relates to the original post is, while a newbie can learn the science and the facts, he or she will totally lack the wisdom that comes with experience. Even someone who has FAILED at marketing for a year is going to know more about marketing than a newbie who hit a home run on his first try. And that's because of the experience that hones the "gut" and the intuition.

    You can't apply any intuition or innovation to a pattern unless you know the pattern. And with something so complex and dynamic as marketing, you can't really learn the pattern except by working with it every day. Marketing is at least as artistic as stand up comedy - and it's the same in that you have to be creative on the front end, but you still have to test your material on real people to see if it works or not. And just like comedy, the guy with a ton of experience is going to be the guy who can kill just improvise and totally own a crowd. While the most studied newbie could bomb delivering the exact same material.
    Signature

    Fair warning: It's possible I'm arguing with you because I have nothing better to do.
    Join my free copywriting group on Facebook: http://CultOfCopy.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1355067].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jason Moffatt
      Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post


      Creativity is a tremendous factor when it comes to things like finding new ways to be incongrous and draw attention to yourself in any given market. It's certainly a factor in copywriting. You can mechanically create a salesletter that contains all the things a salesletter "needs" but it takes an artist to compress a powerful message down to an elegant single sheet of paper that can be cheaply mailed continuously for almost 30 years, like the Conroy Wall Street Journal letter.
      Very nice.
      Signature
      FREE 7-Day Video Training On How To Get People To Know, Like, Trust & Buy From You - http://www.nichefamous.com/
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1355085].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Mark-Dickenson
        Studies show that pretending to be a Russian Female on Craigslist
        to get CPA sign ups to your dating offer can result in unwanted pictures in your inbox
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1355204].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by Mark-Dickenson View Post

          unwanted pictures in your inbox
          How do you know they're unwanted? Some people might think of that as a bonus.
          Signature
          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1355565].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

            How do you know they're unwanted? Some people might think of that as a bonus.
            Personally, I consider those as PLR to use for other projects, like pre-loading the "local stud finder" personals sites that I advertise in the Stuckey's restroom. What's awesome about Craigslist is that I even know what email address to forward the contacts to.

            I learned from Jay Abraham that you have to really get them most that you can from all that you've got.
            Signature

            Fair warning: It's possible I'm arguing with you because I have nothing better to do.
            Join my free copywriting group on Facebook: http://CultOfCopy.com

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1355582].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
    Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

    When someone starts out giving advice by saying, "Studies show..." or "Statistically...", and don't provide a citation or reference to where they obtained the information, chances are, they're just parroting something they heard elsewhere. So while you read what they've posted, don't necessarily consider it credible unless it's proven.
    Not necessarily. They may be keeping their source confidential.

    Take something like testing results from a split test or multi-variate test. I may not want to reveal what site of mine -- or my clients -- the testing was done on because doing so will encourage other marketers swipe copy, marketing ideas, the product niche, or even come up with a competing product.

    If I'm sharing some of my testing results, it's because I'm looking to help other Warriors, not have part of my business (or my client's) ripped off by copycats.

    Dan Kennedy refers to it as 'marketing incest' and it's even more common in the online world.

    How many salesletters started using blue backgrounds with red headlines after Traffic Secrets came out?

    How many marketers carbon copied Eben Pagan's squeeze page after it revealed it converted at 80%?

    Big Mike... how long did it until other people carbon-copied your pre-made niche Adsense websites and started selling them for a few bucks each?

    It's inevitable that other marketers get ideas from you... even choose to go into competition with you but it doesn't mean you have to make it real easy for them to do.

    Smart marketers still take steps to protect their business when offering free advice in a public forum. Those steps can be not revealing their niche or their websites.

    Take care,

    Mike
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1356515].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sysmarketer
    Yep...Biggie it took me years of research and hard work to find YOU. I'm a fully trained scientist, rolled with the biggest names around...Right On!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1356616].message }}

Trending Topics