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Unread 6th Apr 2020, 05:50 PM   #601
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Re: Coronavirus? Not worthy of a mention here???
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Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post


Of course, the next pandemic will probably require a completely different set of items like Merv 40 furnace filters and liquid nitrogen...
I'll sell you some from my bunker.

I dunno about you, but I think these last few months + the hurricane season
heading my way ... is going to turn me into a full fledged prepper wack -o.

If any of you warriors sell fully custom underground bunkers, let me know.

Edit:
I'm really not sure if I'm joking or not.


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Unread 6th Apr 2020, 06:18 PM   #602
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Genomic epidemiology of novel coronavirus

https://nextstrain.org/ncov?s=Iceland/268/2020


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Unread 6th Apr 2020, 06:20 PM   #603
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This pandemic has exposed shortfalls not only in our collective and individual preparedness, but also in our medical system response, and major weaknesses in a wide swath of our social, economic, industrial, technological, and political infrastructure.

Overheard at a corona party:
"All of a sudden, having a mask, rubber gloves, duct tape, plastic sheeting, and rope in your car trunk is OK".
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Unread 6th Apr 2020, 08:29 PM   #604
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Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

As such, I'm converting space on my front porch and garage for these purposes. I'm currently building a decorative box/stand for food deliveries (rather than the damn pizza box sitting on the porch and then my stove...).

I'm putting a shoe rack in my garage and buying an outdoor shoe bench for my front porch. People coming in through the garage will rack their shoe before entry. Those coming in the front can sit on the bench to remove their shoes and place them inside a weather proof container inside the bench.
I am a couple of steps ahead of you. When I built my home I personally have a separate entrance. I have a small "job box" outside with a bench I take off my shoes and place them in the box - I have added a can of Lysol spray. I then walk into my "work" laundry / bath room where I take off my work clothes and place them in a darks, lights, and red bins. I then take a shower. My "Home clothes" are hanging on the door, and then I enter the house.

Talk to anyone that has or does install Satellite TV for any amount of time about this set up... every one of them will relate. I actually had to go to a house a few weeks ago that my guys couldn't deal with. I threw up on the front porch... BEFORE I got in the house. I was able to walk the person through the steps needed to fix their system from outside talking through a window. - I took my clothes off before I got back in my truck - and burned them when I got home.

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Unread 6th Apr 2020, 08:30 PM   #605
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Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

But me? After the panic subsides?

I'm buying a box of masks and supplies for the next one. And there is always a next one.
I'm asking seriously, and I apologize if this was already discussed.

But do masks other than ones specifically made to block virus-sized particles, particularly home made ones made from cotton do anything other than prevent you from touching your face?

And even then, if you touch your mask and deposit some virus, or if it's floating through the air and lands on your mask, can it still make its way through those fibers and into your lungs as you attempt to inhale it thousands of times throughout the day? (and I bet with a scarf over your face all day, you'll be sucking in harder than usual.)

Same goes for protecting others. Will a scarf stop an outgoing cough or sneeze?

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

Don't forget the toilet paper!!
A pack of baby wipes lasts a whole lot longer than a roll of toilet paper, and has been well stocked everywhere I've been.

But anyone who doesn't own an electric bidet is doing themselves a terrible disservice, even in the best of times. Mine is absolutely the favorite thing I own.

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Unread 6th Apr 2020, 08:36 PM   #606
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Originally Posted by perryny View Post

I'm asking seriously, and I apologize if this was already discussed.

But do masks other than ones specifically made to block virus-sized particles, particularly home made ones made from cotton do anything other than prevent you from touching your face?

And even then, if you touch your mask and deposit some virus, or if it's floating through the air and lands on your mask, can it still make its way through those fibers and into your lungs as you attempt to inhale it thousands of times throughout the day? (and I bet with a scarf over your face all day, you'll be sucking in harder than usual.)

Same goes for protecting others. Will a scarf stop an outgoing cough or sneeze?
The idea of a mask less than the N95 or if you are lucky and can get KN95 masks is more so to suppress you spreading to other people. When I am working out in public at this point I do wear a N95 mask, but when I goto the store or gas station etc I have been wearing the KN95 surgical type masks.

My thought on the whole subject is something is better than nothing. Scarves will actually stop the larger droplets ( the 6 foot circle type of spray ) but not the aerosol - to a degree... its going to stop maybe some of it, just by no means all of it.

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Unread 7th Apr 2020, 02:36 AM   #607
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Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

I thought I should mention, because my last post sounded a little "Doomsday"...

This will end. It will slow down, and then end. These pandemics always end, we always survive...most of us anyway.

But me? After the panic subsides?

I'm buying a box of masks and supplies for the next one. And there is always a next one.

I hope everyone is OK.



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Unread 7th Apr 2020, 07:37 AM   #608
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Originally Posted by myob View Post

This pandemic has exposed shortfalls not only in our collective and individual preparedness, but also in our medical system response, and major weaknesses in a wide swath of our social, economic, industrial, technological, and political infrastructure.

Overheard at a corona party:
"All of a sudden, having a mask, rubber gloves, duct tape, plastic sheeting, and rope in your car trunk is OK".
i deleted the response i put up last night ..

humans really can not prepare for things they have not gone through ..without some kind of simulation or training protical . people around the world responded to preparing for a few weeks in lockdown at home .. by buying multi years supplies of toilet paper hand sanitizor.

and my first job in my teens was in a grocery store ..people dont prepare or have any plan in place in the winter ..where it snows every year ..for a snowstorm that may mean you can leave the house for a day or two.. they panic buy weeks worth of food . and people still do it today ..well mayby not if snow was forcast for tomorrow.. but well..

i don't think the government can really prepare for us when there is a list of 500 different potential catastrophes the government has to prepare for..and the government is as likly to buy multi years supplies of toilet paper ..just to look like it is doing something ..
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Unread 7th Apr 2020, 08:19 AM   #609
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Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

humans really can not prepare for things they have not gone through ..
The world has gone through panics, recessions, and depressions on average every 5-10 years. In the last recession of 2008, we at first stumbled but continued on as if nothing happened.

What we can learn from history is that most people never learn from history. Those who are now getting "ready" for the next pandemic still don't get it.
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Unread 7th Apr 2020, 08:50 AM   #610
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Originally Posted by myob View Post

The world has gone through panics, recessions, and depressions on average every 5-10 years. In the last recession of 2008, we at first stumbled but continued on as if nothing happened.

What we can learn from history is that most people never learn from history. Those who are now getting "ready" for the next pandemic still don't get it.
True, but what is happening now is unprecedented. No prior experience whatsoever with this (our) generation. Are we overreacting? Possibly. But then again, ask the people who are sick or have lost their loved ones they'll tell you we are not doing enough. I hope we do learn from this experience though.
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Unread 7th Apr 2020, 09:40 AM   #611
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Originally Posted by myob View Post

The world has gone through panics, recessions, and depressions on average every 5-10 years. In the last recession of 2008, we at first stumbled but continued on as if nothing happened.

What we can learn from history is that most people never learn from history. Those who are now getting "ready" for the next pandemic still don't get it.
ok the only way to really prepare is not to be in a vulnerable population ..and grasp that outside a natural disaster where the government is telling you to get out .. for 95 percent of the other emergencies we will go through to get through you need a coup[le months of liguid finances .. and a few weeks or a months supply of food .. or basic food preparation shills and a way to cook if their is no electricity for a few days or weeks

i am back up in massachusetts next winter if i am still here..when there is an announcment of snow people will rush to the grocery stores the day before and the hard ware stores to buy shovels ..

they dont even prepare for the things that happen regularly
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Unread 7th Apr 2020, 09:54 AM   #612
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humans really can not prepare for things they have not gone through ..
Humans CAN prepare to take care of themselves in a crisis or a disaster.

ANYONE who is self supporting can slowly build up an emergency fund to cover expenses for 2-3 months - enough supplies to last a couple weeks.

That so many did not prepare for any problem - is concerning. This has not been going on for months - it's been 3 weeks since the states began shutting down businesses. It was another week or two before they got serious about gathering in parks and on beaches.

No one - in govt, business or medicine - could have predicted the speed at which this virus moves - or could have prevented it. This is as much as natural disaster as an earthquake, tsunami, hurricane, tornado, wildfire....just on a much bigger scale.



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Unread 7th Apr 2020, 10:18 AM   #613
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Originally Posted by qwikaddotcom View Post

True, but what is happening now is unprecedented. No prior experience whatsoever with this (our) generation. Are we overreacting? Possibly. But then again, asked the people who are sick or have lost their loved ones they'll tell you we are not doing enough. I hope we do learn from this experience though.
This type of pandemic is rare, but certainly not unprecedented. However what is unprecedented is the scale of the global shift in the economy, transfer of wealth, mobilization of industry, emerging technology especially in the medical sector, and major realignments in business practices.

But, just like previous pandemics, disasters, recessions, depressions, and even wars throughout history, this too will pass and become largely forgotten by most people ... and once again unprepared for the next crisis.

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Unread 7th Apr 2020, 10:49 AM   #614
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Originally Posted by perryny View Post

I'm asking seriously, and I apologize if this was already discussed.

But do masks other than ones specifically made to block virus-sized particles, particularly home made ones made from cotton do anything other than prevent you from touching your face?

And even then, if you touch your mask and deposit some virus, or if it's floating through the air and lands on your mask, can it still make its way through those fibers and into your lungs as you attempt to inhale it thousands of times throughout the day? (and I bet with a scarf over your face all day, you'll be sucking in harder than usual.)

Same goes for protecting others. Will a scarf stop an outgoing cough or sneeze?
.
I actually know something about this.

Some masks have multiple layers. If they are HEPA filter masks (White cloth like filters), then they will tend to stop the virus....not because the virus is bigger than the air holes, but because the virus will tend to stick to the fabric of the mask.

I bought cloth masks, with HEPA filter inserts. They will stop 90% or more of the virus.

But mostly what masks do is stop you from sending your sneeze 6 feet away. If you have a mask on, and everyone around you has a mask on, it cuts down on the transmission by nearly 100%.

That is, unless you rub your eyes or stick your finger in your ear.

As you wear your mask during the day, you create moisture on the mask, from breathing. This moisture is really what traps the virus.

But a bandanna? A scarf? I suppose that's better than nothing.

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Unread 7th Apr 2020, 11:30 AM   #615
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The instructions for folding a bandana result in 8 layers of tightly woven fabric covering your mouth and nose. It's meant as a potential protections from sneezes and coughs but should be laundered the moment you take it off = and as with masks you should not touch the 'outside' of it.


I just stay home - it's easier.


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Unread 7th Apr 2020, 12:25 PM   #616
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

Humans CAN prepare to take care of themselves in a crisis or a disaster.

ANYONE who is self supporting can slowly build up an emergency fund to cover expenses for 2-3 months - enough supplies to last a couple weeks.

That so many did not prepare for any problem - is concerning. This has not been going on for months - it's been 3 weeks since the states began shutting down businesses. It was another week or two before they got serious about gathering in parks and on beaches.

No one - in govt, business or medicine - could have predicted the speed at which this virus moves - or could have prevented it. This is as much as natural disaster as an earthquake, tsunami, hurricane, tornado, wildfire....just on a much bigger scale.

.
well there are many many people who are not self supporting or just barly making enough money to survive .

the speed of the virus was predictable ..what no one predicted was the step needed to slow it down..locking down the economy of most of the planet .

i really don't think i have seen anyone ever who thouggt government would tell so many people to just sit home ..and get to the point of writing out citations ..

the next crisi will probably be the result of all this money printing going on by the governments of the world ..or when the increase in the amount of US currency drived the price of oil up ..

now much of the growth in the Us gdp has come from the rise in cost of rents and real estate the increasing spending on health care, and the increasing cost of higher education be interesting to see how the US gdp grows after this..we may go into a deflationary period a disaster in itself
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Unread 7th Apr 2020, 12:55 PM   #617
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

Humans CAN prepare to take care of themselves in a crisis or a disaster.

ANYONE who is self supporting can slowly build up an emergency fund to cover expenses for 2-3 months - enough supplies to last a couple weeks.

That so many did not prepare for any problem - is concerning. This has not been going on for months - it's been 3 weeks since the states began shutting down businesses. It was another week or two before they got serious about gathering in parks and on beaches.

No one - in govt, business or medicine - could have predicted the speed at which this virus moves - or could have prevented it. This is as much as natural disaster as an earthquake, tsunami, hurricane, tornado, wildfire....just on a much bigger scale.



.


Humans are ostriches, we are designed by nature to expect the best outcome.
To me it makes sense that a majority of any population did nothing. Just look at Pompeii.

It was predicted, by several people over many years. In black and white.
Also, it was not only predicted, but there were action plans to keep it from getting inside the USA. Again, in black and white and from the USA CDC

I agree with this being a natural disaster.


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Unread 7th Apr 2020, 01:18 PM   #618
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It is somewhat surprising to me that some people are so misinformed and they spout misinformation even though other people that know better post links to the facts and share common sense.

Kay said it best.. "I just stay home - it's easier."

In the minute it took me to write this post.. someone died of Covid 19. RIP.
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Unread 7th Apr 2020, 02:37 PM   #619
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Originally Posted by perryny View Post

But anyone who doesn't own an electric bidet is doing themselves a terrible disservice, even in the best of times. Mine is absolutely the favorite thing I own.
My entire life I've been anti-bidet and very strongly so. I had a conversation with a guy that changed my mind instantly. It was a more profound conversation than this, but his point was if you get fecal matter (I'm cleaning up the conversation as I paraphrase)on your hand, do you just wipe it off with a paper towel or do you get to the nearest sink and immediately wash your hands? If so, why is it okay to just wipe off your most frequently soiled body part and go about your day?

That shifted my perspective from,"Yeah, nobody's shooting water up *my* keester," to "Why are we all walking around with unclean bums?" My lens had changed.

So, I bought a cheap non-electric bidet on Woot (Amazon) for $25. It sat next to my toilet for three months. Finally, the pandemic's toilet paper shortage and my increased time at home (with a wife, a mother-in-law, and a 4-year I can't seem to shake 24/7) prompted me to tell everybody to leave me alone for a couple hours.

The result?

I honestly don't know what I was waiting for. It's refreshing, clean, simple. And mine's not electric, so that cold shot of water in the morning helps wake me up...

I might consider getting one of your fancy electric ones...with the warm water, puff of warm air, and an mp3 player that plays Hail to the Chief every time I sit down. I just have to get my wife on board.

And that, my friends, is a different brand of bathroom humor than you probably expect from me.


(And, yes, Ken Michaels, if my dad were alive, he'd beat me senseless for using "one of those commie $#!tters.")

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Unread 7th Apr 2020, 02:50 PM   #620
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That was a lot of information...a whole lot of information.


I'm happy your keister is cold and clean - I'm a minimalist so I keep a pack of baby wipes in the throne room...have done that for years.


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Unread 7th Apr 2020, 03:01 PM   #621
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I just wonder if in some future ultra-sanitized, be-masked, filtered, bideted, disinfected world, some boringly innocuous little B-list virus could come along and see us all off.
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Unread 7th Apr 2020, 03:07 PM   #622
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Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

I honestly don't know what I was waiting for. It's refreshing, clean, simple. And mine's not electric, so that cold shot of water in the morning helps wake me up...
Believe me, nobody appreciates your keister cleanliness more than I do.

Honestly, I heard the same argument. Changed my mind instantly. I've been using my trusty TS-R Nerf Super Soaker Water Blaster. Refreshing, and macho.

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Unread 7th Apr 2020, 03:55 PM   #623
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Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

Believe me, nobody appreciates your keister cleanliness more than I do.
Stop kissing it and you wont have to.


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Unread 7th Apr 2020, 04:07 PM   #624
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Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

My entire life I've been anti-bidet and very strongly so. I had a conversation with a guy that changed my mind instantly. It was a more profound conversation than this, but his point was if you get fecal matter (I'm cleaning up the conversation as I paraphrase)on your hand, do you just wipe it off with a paper towel or do you get to the nearest sink and immediately wash your hands? If so, why is it okay to just wipe off your most frequently soiled body part and go about your day?

That shifted my perspective from,"Yeah, nobody's shooting water up *my* keester," to "Why are we all walking around with unclean bums?" My lens had changed.

So, I bought a cheap non-electric bidet on Woot (Amazon) for $25. It sat next to my toilet for three months. Finally, the pandemic's toilet paper shortage and my increased time at home (with a wife, a mother-in-law, and a 4-year I can't seem to shake 24/7) prompted me to tell everybody to leave me alone for a couple hours.

The result?

I honestly don't know what I was waiting for. It's refreshing, clean, simple. And mine's not electric, so that cold shot of water in the morning helps wake me up...

I might consider getting one of your fancy electric ones...with the warm water, puff of warm air, and an mp3 player that plays Hail to the Chief every time I sit down. I just have to get my wife on board.

And that, my friends, is a different brand of bathroom humor than you probably expect from me.


(And, yes, Ken Michaels, if my dad were alive, he'd beat me senseless for using "one of those commie $#!tters.")
What are you, French or something.

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Unread 7th Apr 2020, 07:25 PM   #625
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Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

I just wonder if in some future ultra-sanitized, be-masked, filtered, bideted, disinfected world, some boringly innocuous little B-list virus could come along and see us all off.
Just remember the likes of Clorox and Lysol only kill 99.9% of germs... that means there is a .01% germ lurking out there could do just that.

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Unread 7th Apr 2020, 08:30 PM   #626
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The OT sections is something else (mean that in a good way). Never imagined we would tell each other how we wipe our you know what in the main forum.

In the minute it took me to write this post.. someone died of Covid 19. RIP.
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Unread 7th Apr 2020, 10:36 PM   #627
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Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

The OT sections is something else (mean that in a good way). Never imagined we would tell each other how we wipe our you know what in the main forum.
If I can change but one person's life for the better, it's all worth it.
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Unread 8th Apr 2020, 08:40 AM   #628
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Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

Just remember the likes of Clorox and Lysol only kill 99.9% of germs... that means there is a .01% germ lurking out there could do just that.
Most people are spraying Lysol without following the directions, spraying and wiping right after, and completely defeating the purpose. There will be plenty of germs out there. I wouldn't count on the human race taking care of much proactively.
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Unread 8th Apr 2020, 08:46 AM   #629
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'It's not fancy, but it works': Mississippi doctor uses garden hose, lamp timer and electronic valve to create makeshift ventilators

for less than $100

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/its-not-fancy-but-it-works-mississippi-doctor-uses-garden-hose-lamp-timer-and-electronic-valve-to-create-makeshift-ventilators/ar-BB12hDwb


"
Dr. Charles Robertson, a UMMC pediatric anesthesiologist and the mastermind behind the idea, said he set out to make the "absolute simplest ventilator we can build with parts available in any city, you don't need special tools to put together and can be done quickly as the need arises."

Made with "primarily a garden hose, a lamp timer and electronic valve," the ventilator, named the Robertson Ventilator, for less than $100, can be assembled in approximately 20 to 30 minutes, meaning a dedicated team of four to five could produce nearly 100 in a day if needed, he said.

Demonstrating the functionality of the machine at a news conference Tuesday afternoon, Robertson turned on a ventilator hooked up to a mannequin. The mannequin's chest began to rise and fall.

The Robertson Ventilator: 'The brain behind the thing is actually a lamp timer'"


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Unread 8th Apr 2020, 08:51 AM   #630
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Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

The OT sections is something else (mean that in a good way). Never imagined we would tell each other how we wipe our you know what in the main forum.

Whaddya think I am?


Cheap?


Hey — I got people.

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Unread 8th Apr 2020, 08:56 AM   #631
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Today's weather has been glorious. I've been relaxing in the garden, sipping a glass of cold white burgundy while enjoying the birdsong and absence of traffic and people noise.

If it wasn't for the threat of imminent death, I could get used to this.
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Unread 8th Apr 2020, 09:03 AM   #632
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Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

Today's weather has been glorious. I've been relaxing in the garden, sipping a glass of cold white burgundy while enjoying the birdsong and absence of traffic and people noise.

If it wasn't for the threat of imminent death, I could get used to this.
If it wasn't for my garden and home schooling, I'd probably lose my mind and
or go do something stupid.

I also realized with all the planning and buying I did to prepare...I forgot to
re-up all my garden needs oops

Nobody likes my garden but me, so its become my fortress of solitude
Much nicer then being locked away in an office coding.


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Unread 8th Apr 2020, 09:18 AM   #633
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Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

Today's weather has been glorious. I've been relaxing in the garden, sipping a glass of cold white burgundy while enjoying the birdsong and absence of traffic and people noise.

If it wasn't for the threat of imminent death, I could get used to this.
Garden/Window Box, it's all the same

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Unread 8th Apr 2020, 09:22 AM   #634
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We are now seeing a massive re-emergence of innovation, inventions, and entrepreneurship largely unseen since WW2.

Not only are whole industries pivoting to meet the challenge, but displaced workers are starting home businesses (known as "cottage industries" back in the day) and sprouting up all over the US (perhaps all over the world).

I have seen growing numbers of people refusing to take this crisis sitting down.
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Unread 8th Apr 2020, 10:32 AM   #635
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Originally Posted by myob View Post

We are now seeing a massive re-emergence of innovation, inventions, and entrepreneurship largely unseen since WW2.

Not only are whole industries pivoting to meet the challenge, but displaced workers are starting home businesses (known as "cottage industries" back in the day) and sprouting up all over the US (perhaps all over the world).

I have seen growing numbers of people refusing to take this crisis sitting down.

what we are seeing is government getting out of the way of innovation and a lot of the other systems that have slowed down innovation..be removed or ignored ..medical advance that needed years of testing and expensive approval are now being done in weeks.without costing tens or hundred or billions of dollars that then needs to be recovered from the market
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Unread 8th Apr 2020, 01:08 PM   #636
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Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

'It's not fancy, but it works': Mississippi doctor uses garden hose, lamp timer and electronic valve to create makeshift ventilators

for less than $100

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/its-not-fancy-but-it-works-mississippi-doctor-uses-garden-hose-lamp-timer-and-electronic-valve-to-create-makeshift-ventilators/ar-BB12hDwb
If this is legit and it seems it is..

it could be a game changer.

In the minute it took me to write this post.. someone died of Covid 19. RIP.
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Unread 8th Apr 2020, 01:58 PM   #637
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Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

If this is legit and it seems it is..

it could be a game changer.
For real.

I can't help but wonder if he grew up broke. That's the type of MacGyver ingenuity
that comes from the consistent lack of funds and overuse of duct tape.


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Unread 8th Apr 2020, 02:36 PM   #638
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Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

For real.

I can't help but wonder if he grew up broke. That's the type of MacGyver ingenuity
that comes from the consistent lack of funds and overuse of duct tape.
well he is still in the US if this doesn't work ..he will have big malpractice lawsuits after this .

dont think we wont see a lot of that after this ..once the courts open you will see a record number of malpractice suits filed ..big huge part of why our leader wanted to avoid triage
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Unread 8th Apr 2020, 02:56 PM   #639
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I think we'll see a lot of 'suits' thrown out of court - and one thing I've noticed in the past week or so is that peole aren't symathetic to the same old 'poor me' stories and money grabs that accompany them.


Some nurses went on strike this week -complaining about their hours and conditions - and the public response was not sympathetic. There are too many heroes - so those complaining and walking off the job were told 'quit and go home'.



During this crisis - every person will either be part of the solution or part of the problem. Some will find ways to keep going - be excited when the world is open for business and life again....and some will always see a glass that is half full, cracked and leaking. Human nature.


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Unread 8th Apr 2020, 05:58 PM   #640
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Watch this, watch it all, very sobering

https://youtu.be/LAa_kHBE234

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Unread 8th Apr 2020, 06:37 PM   #641
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Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

Watch this, watch it all, very sobering

http$://youtu.be/LAa_kHBE234
Irresponsible and self-serving talking heads like the above are popping up all over the internet. The fact remains, there is no vaccine, and currently the best defense for us, (and especially to protect those we care about as well as those who are on the front lines putting their lives at risk) is to observe recommended precautions. The infection rate of this highly virulent virus is exponential, and models show that millions of lives would have been lost without social distancing intervention.
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Unread 8th Apr 2020, 06:56 PM   #642
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

I think we'll see a lot of 'suits' thrown out of court - and one thing I've noticed in the past week or so is that peole aren't symathetic to the same old 'poor me' stories and money grabs that accompany them.


Some nurses went on strike this week -complaining about their hours and conditions - and the public response was not sympathetic. There are too many heroes - so those complaining and walking off the job were told 'quit and go home'.



During this crisis - every person will either be part of the solution or part of the problem. Some will find ways to keep going - be excited when the world is open for business and life again....and some will always see a glass that is half full, cracked and leaking. Human nature.

as far as that strike ..where was the strike in the US only story i have seen of a strike of nurses and doctors was in Zimbabwe ..which is like the third pooerst country on the planet ..and china /Jack Ma donated a bunch of PPE ..ppe the is defective 20 percent of the time is better than nothing ..so they actually got most of what they wanted .

was there a strike in the US..the was one planned in march in seattle or somewhere in Washington..but no story.. can you put the link up for the strike in the Us you where referring to .
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Unread 8th Apr 2020, 07:18 PM   #643
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https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...al-in-detroit/


official 'strike' - or walkout? Don't know. I fully understand a doctor or nurse could hit the wall - reach a breaking point but don't think a publicized walkout is the way to go.


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Unread 9th Apr 2020, 04:41 AM   #644
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Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

For real.

I can't help but wonder if he grew up broke. That's the type of MacGyver ingenuity
that comes from the consistent lack of funds and overuse of duct tape.

Years ago I had the pleasure of working with man considered to be one of the top 10 professionals in the.. get this.. the rocket science industry. His staff was in the middle of deterring a threat to the U.S. when a logistics problem materialized. In this case the problem became twofold and time was running out.


His staff went to him with the issue and said there was nothing they could do or think of to resolve the issue.


This man invented a solution on the spot and issue resolved. Later, scientists and his peers from around the world to include the White House said he "Invented a better mouse trap."


And this man came from a very wealthy family.


Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

well he is still in the US if this doesn't work ..he will have big malpractice lawsuits after this .

dont think we wont see a lot of that after this ..once the courts open you will see a record number of malpractice suits filed ..big huge part of why our leader wanted to avoid triage

If that happens I will be the first to start a GoFundMe campaign for him.


Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

I think we'll see a lot of 'suits' thrown out of court - and one thing I've noticed in the past week or so is that peole aren't symathetic to the same old 'poor me' stories and money grabs that accompany them.

Some nurses went on strike this week -complaining about their hours and conditions - and the public response was not sympathetic. There are too many heroes - so those complaining and walking off the job were told 'quit and go home'.

During this crisis - every person will either be part of the solution or part of the problem. Some will find ways to keep going - be excited when the world is open for business and life again....and some will always see a glass that is half full, cracked and leaking. Human nature.

Better words were never said.

In the minute it took me to write this post.. someone died of Covid 19. RIP.
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Unread 9th Apr 2020, 08:39 AM   #645
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Originally Posted by myob View Post

Irresponsible and self-serving talking heads like the above are popping up all over the internet. The fact remains, there is no vaccine, and currently the best defense for us, (and especially to protect those we care about as well as those who are on the front lines putting their lives at risk) is to observe recommended precautions. The infection rate of this highly virulent virus is exponential, and models show that millions of lives would have been lost without social distancing intervention.
The "self serving talking head" was quoting a top professional in the field. and she pointed out a lot of pertinent facts from him about this virus and how we are handling it as opposed to other countries who did it right and avoided a lockdown.

I found the facts about Italy of particular interest, the Swine flu deaths as well. Projections are often wrong. With regards to raw figures this may statistically just be just another one of those viruses that comes along periodically and adds to the yearly death toll Time will tell, I hope I'm not wrong.

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Unread 9th Apr 2020, 09:39 AM   #646
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Originally Posted by myob View Post

Irresponsible and self-serving talking heads like the above are popping up all over the internet.
The link that lad put up was from a reputable source. You seem to be the irresponsible one, mouthpiecing for the sensationalist media and govt who clearly have to protect the decision they made to put 17 million people out of work and borrow 2 trillion dollars.

Originally Posted by myob View Post

The fact remains, there is no vaccine, and currently the best defense for us, (and especially to protect those we care about as well as those who are on the front lines putting their lives at risk) is to observe recommended precautions.
That's YOU doubling down on your bias.

Who is the 'us' you are talking about anyway? Surely not the people who lost their jobs and businesses. But hey, you're alright, so that's alright.

Originally Posted by myob View Post

The infection rate of this highly virulent virus is exponential, and models show that millions of lives would have been lost without social distancing intervention.
All these models are wrong. We know this now. The new prediction is that 60,000 people will die from the virus. Let's put that into perspective...

61,000 people died from the flu in 2018 alone.

67,000 died from drug overdose.
50,000 died from suicide.
88,000 died from alcohol abuse.

How much of an impact will the decision to shutdown the economy have on the last 3?

The decision to shut the economy down was one made out of fear, rather than sense. It was the safest option, and now all involved will do whatever they can to protect their decision.

What happens if a second wave comes around? They'll most likely protect the vulnerable, and let the rest of us just get on with it. Like they should have done from the get go.

The solution here is far, far worse than the problem. And you can take that to the bank. It's just that most people won't have any reason to go to the bank, with no money and all.




By the way. I'm not saying people aren't dying. I'm not saying people aren't scared. I'm not even saying that hospitals are not choc-a-bloc. But looking through this thread you'd think we were all in immediate danger and the world is about to end. Typical fear mentality created by a culture driven by media sensationalism.

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Unread 9th Apr 2020, 10:05 AM   #647
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Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

The "self serving talking head" was quoting a top professional in the field. and she pointed out a lot of pertinent facts from him about this virus and how we are handling it as opposed to other countries who did it right and avoided a lockdown.

I found the facts about Italy of particular interest, the Swine flu deaths as well. Projections are often wrong. With regards to raw figures this may statistically just be just another one of those viruses that comes along periodically and adds to the yearly death toll Time will tell, I hope I'm not wrong.
so are you scouring the internet to find expert to confirm your bias .

looks like everyone in south korea who goes outside is wearing a mask .. but south Korea and Japan had the wearing mask in public thing as part of the culture long ago ..

Sweden is considering going full scale lock down as the death tol in that country is rising fast..
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Unread 9th Apr 2020, 10:18 AM   #648
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Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

The "self serving talking head" was quoting a top professional in the field. and she pointed out a lot of pertinent facts from him about this virus and how we are handling it as opposed to other countries who did it right and avoided a lockdown.

I found the facts about Italy of particular interest, the Swine flu deaths as well. Projections are often wrong. With regards to raw figures this may statistically just be just another one of those viruses that comes along periodically and adds to the yearly death toll Time will tell, I hope I'm not wrong.
Thankfully, the projections were wrong. But that was not because the statistical modeling was wrong. Massive action and mobilization prevented horrific casualties.

Working with limited data, a new virus strain, fractured medical system, distractions and incompetence on many levels, and social carelessness all combined in a perfect storm for trajedy and looming economic disaster.

Sure, there were some early warning signs, just as there was ample warning of the Pearl Harbor attack that ignited resolve in WW2. Bill Gates warned us to prepare for a pandemic years ago.

There are literally millions of viruses swarming among us and around the globe bombarding our immune systems. They mutate quickly, and every now and then such randomness becomes deadly.

Other countries were certainly more prepared than we because they had been through pandemics before (SARS, MERS, etc), and established medical countermeasures. But for example in the US there was no such precedent, and the seriousness was not realized until it overwhelmed our medical capacity and response.

Second-guessing is not productive right now. I do see these "talking heads" popping up all the time quoting "top professionals" about what we should have done. It seems more like they are using this crisis for their own promotions. Couch-potato soliloquies about the virus are becoming an epidemic.

What we need to do right now to fight this war (it is a war, by the way) is to do everything we can to prevent the spread of this virus to the vulnerable and those at at-risk. The points that seems to be missed repeatedly are there is no vaccine and this virus is highly contagious.
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Unread 9th Apr 2020, 10:19 AM   #649
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Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

so are you scouring the internet to find expert to confirm your bias .

looks like everyone in south korea who goes outside is wearing a mask .. but south Korea and Japan had the wearing mask in public thing as part of the culture long ago ..

Sweden is considering going full scale lock down as the death tol in that country is rising fast..
"so are you scouring the internet to find expert to confirm your bias"

One of the funniest lines posted so far.

I'm only interested in true facts. And Expert analysis. In this case, this is what I found. I was recommended to view this video by a good friend, no scouring the net to feed my bias. I do not have one.

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Unread 9th Apr 2020, 12:08 PM   #650
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Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

"so are you scouring the internet to find expert to confirm your bias"

One of the funniest lines posted so far.

I'm only interested in true facts. And Expert analysis. In this case, this is what I found. I was recommended to view this video by a good friend, no scouring the net to feed my bias. I do not have one.
no bias are you sure .. now that is funny ..so you ingnore the effects of the lock down on slowing the spread and that we have many treatments that might not be sure things but are effective enough to reduce the risks of those seriously ill from dieing..which is part of why the lockdown was in place ..and as we get those effective treatment figured out soon..and build the capacity to treat large numbers of very sick people ..and get the needed ppe in production and the hand of end users .

if we had people wearing homemade masks a month ago at the start of thise we would probably see much lower infection and death rates ..

you see a failure in the projections on the other hand the lockdown has been effective for doing what we needed to do.. slow the spread and produce the needed supplies and treatments..yes it takes a heavy toll on the economy..and maybe a bigger toll on the 20 percent of the population with wealth to lose . short term it is hard on the people stuck home but really not financially able .to just sit at home .

and at some point soon in the next month..we need to start opening stuff up or we risk losing more people from an economic catastrophe..because of the effect this might have on mortgage back securities
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