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Unread 7th May 2020, 12:17 PM   #851
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Re: Coronavirus? Not worthy of a mention here???
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We saw this one coming:


Ohio (and maybe other states) are asking employers to report those workers who refuse to return to work. Businesses reported employees saying they 'don't want to come back until it's 'safe'.



My own guess is it will 'be safe' when checks from unemployment (and the extsra $600/week from the fed) runs out - some are earning more not working than they ever earned on a job.


If employers are willing for workers to stay away longer without losing their jobs - that's up to the employer. However, a worker who refuses to work will lose unemployment benefits.

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Unread 7th May 2020, 01:20 PM   #852
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

WIf employers are willing for workers to stay away longer without losing their jobs - that's up to the employer. However, a worker who refuses to work will lose unemployment benefits.
If you don't go back to work, you lose income. If you do go back, you may contract the virus and die, and you and your family have no legal recourse against the company for not providing a safe environment.

FMD.

"Life can only be understood backwards, but must be lived forwards" - Soren Kierkegaard
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Unread 7th May 2020, 03:18 PM   #853
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"Life can only be understood backwards, but must be lived forwards" - Soren Kierkegaard
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Unread 7th May 2020, 08:29 PM   #854
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To be fair to the conspiracy theorists (if it is at all possible to be fair to conspiracy theorists), I think most people are just itching for a socially acceptable excuse to lift or violate the restrictions.


The vast majority of people in my area are well to the left of the Democratic Party and yet I regularly see a wolfpack of about 10 kids just biking around with their parents not far behind. I also notice the grass is radioactive or property of the Queen: I've yet to see pedestrians, joggers or cyclists step on the grass to avoid each other. I think I'm the only one.
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Unread 9th May 2020, 11:42 AM   #855
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Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

But I live and work in an ultra conservative Christian town. All my friends are conservative. Most are highly religious. I'm not either one. But I judge people by what they are, not what they believe.

But they are nice people. And so I'm nice back to them.
Don't you think it's boring if you're always around people who don't agree with you or generally have the same interests? If I thought the situation was so hopeless that my views would not prevail regardless of what I said or did, I would eventually leave.

Also what if they're nice people, but they like dressing up as ghosts when it's not halloween and say mean things to people of color on the internet?
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Unread 9th May 2020, 11:55 AM   #856
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Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

Don't you think it's boring if you're always around people who don't agree with you or generally have the same interests?

Also what if they're nice people, but they like dressing up as ghosts when it's not halloween and say mean things to people of color on the internet?
Imo.

Dancing around the word racist or racism, undermines the point of bringing it to light in the first place.



BTW: I was gifted with a whole box of face-masks in my mailbox.
I didn't ask or allude that I needed any, so I was surprised and appreciative.

I noticed that they are blue. The box came with no return address and no letter of intent or anything.

I wonder if the blue is a coincidence or has meaning.

Interesting times we live in.


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Unread 9th May 2020, 12:34 PM   #857
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All I know is ...

the perfectly possible scenario whereby Benedict Cumberbatch descends by parachute to the beach ima sunbathin' my ass on, an' says,

"let us be forever as one, with a kiss to ignite our souls and make passionate and true all our days, my Princess!"

ain't gonna frickin' happen any time soon.

rn I can't even pet no stray cat without fear my lungs gonna invaginate.

Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.
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Unread 9th May 2020, 07:50 PM   #858
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Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

Don't you think it's boring if you're always around people who don't agree with you or generally have the same interests?
You have to understand that almost nobody shares my interests, and I've never met anyone that I thought shares my thought process.

So my entire life is spent around people that I may find interesting, enjoyable, or funny. But with the exception of my wife and son, I don't care about how they see the world...only if they are kind to others.

Frankly, if someone agrees with everything I say, that could be boring.....the best conversations I can have is with an intelligent person who sees the world differently than I do. Studying their thought process...trying to understand their thinking is what I find fascinating. And if they know something I don't, I can actually shut up for a minute (after I ask a question) and be entertained for hours.


Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

If I thought the situation was so hopeless that my views would not prevail regardless of what I said or did, I would eventually leave.
That's because you are a human being that possesses empathy.

My goal is to understand their thinking, not change it.

My brother-in-law is a highly intelligent, educated, articulate man...who happens to be very religious and believes completely in ghosts. I can listen to him for hours. His arguments are not rational, but he presents them in an articulate way...and it's obvious he has given it a lot of thought. I never try to change his mind, because it's not about what I believe or about what he believes. It's that I enjoy him, not that he shares my world view. He cares about what he believes very deeply. And he and I care about each other. What difference does it make if he thinks ghosts are real? Do you get aggravated because a kid thinks Iron Man is real? How much time would you spend trying to convince the boy that he's wrong? Would you want to walk away from him? To me, it's the same thing.

Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

Also what if they're nice people, but they like dressing up as ghosts when it's not halloween and say mean things to people of color on the internet?
At least that would make them interesting. Decades ago, one of my friends was a completely corruptible man with no moral compass. Every word was a lie (even to me). Every idea was a scheme to scam someone out of money (again, me...on a few occasions).

When we went out for a beer or three, he never paid, even though he always promised that he would get the next one. He even asked my girlfriend out when I told him she was angry with me.

He had no value as a friend at all. Why was he my friend? because he was fascinating. It was like watching a man with two heads...in a car wreck.... during a tornado...every time i saw him. I could never get mad at him, because I knew exactly what to expect from him. And he never disappointed.

The only thing I can't be around is meanness directed at the less powerful, or animals. Pettiness is fine, whining and complaining is fine... just not meanness toward others, like clerks in stores, or minimum wage earners....but being mean to someone because they are a different color? That's ignorant...and mean. I'd probably part ways with them . It's not a matter of altruism on my part, but I hate the injustice of people who are mean against the weak...or the people they see as weak.

But toward me? I thought it would be interesting to live in Paris France, because they find Americans annoying. And that would be constantly hilarious to me...knowing that everyone around me found me annoying. Of course, eventually we would become friends...but every new person I met there would be entertaining.

If you were a pro-social psychopath...all of this would make perfect sense to you.

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Unread 9th May 2020, 08:19 PM   #859
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Re: Coronavirus? Not worthy of a mention here???
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Back to Coronavirus.

If you believe the CDC, the World Health Organization...or just about every doctor on the planet...

In the last 30 days, as a daily average, a tad more than 2,000 people a day have died after they tested positive for the virus. This doesn't count everyone that died, before they were tested.

As a daily running average, that puts the Covid-19 virus as the leading cause of death in the US...for the last month. Ahead of heart attacks, accidents, and cancer.

And that coming from a dead start just a few months ago (in the US anyway).

If it's a scam, a fake, a plot of some sort, it's a damn convincing one.

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Unread 10th May 2020, 11:41 AM   #860
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Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

If it's a scam, a fake, a plot of some sort, it's a damn convincing one.
Those who lost loved ones or have gone through it themselves are convinced it's real.

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Unread 10th May 2020, 05:42 PM   #861
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Today is Mother's Day in my parts. We have data that shows that the elderly are significantly affected by the virus and I am sure many have lost their mothers. I am also sure that many mothers were loss not due to the virus.



I for one will not mourn the loss. Instead, I will celebrate the time we had together.

In the minute it took me to write this post.. someone died of Covid 19. RIP.
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Unread 11th May 2020, 04:44 AM   #862
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Hoping Llamas Will Become Coronavirus Heroes
The New York Times May 06, 2020

Just read this amazing article wherein there are lab experiments that have neutralized coronavirus and other infections.

Excerpt:
A llama was injected with a series of virus studies involving both SARS and MERS. Finding that her antibodies staved off those infections, the scientists posited that those same antibodies could also neutralize the new virus that causes Covid-19. They were right, and published their results Tuesday in the journal Cell. (PDF)

In the minute it took me to write this post.. someone died of Covid 19. RIP.
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Unread 11th May 2020, 08:55 AM   #863
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There are literally hundreds of research labs working on a vaccine and therapeutic treatments all over the world. Another very promising antibody has been found in humans. It has effectively neutralized the coronavirus in a lab culture. Researchers say it may be used to prevent and treat not only the coronavirus, but also possibly other future emerging SARS diseases. Research is ongoing as the exact mechanism is not fully understood.

A human monoclonal antibody blocking SARS-CoV-2 infection. [Nature May 4, 2020]
Intro
Here we report a human monoclonal antibody that neutralizes SARS-CoV-2 (and SARS-CoV) in cell culture. This cross-neutralizing antibody targets a communal epitope on these viruses and may offer potential for prevention and treatment of COVID-19.

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Unread 11th May 2020, 10:45 AM   #864
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The war is still on course we are soldering on. Corona is a passing cloud There is no stopping us
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Unread 11th May 2020, 11:51 AM   #865
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Originally Posted by Medon View Post

The war is still on course we are soldering on. Corona is a passing cloud There is no stopping us
Reality check:
That "cloud", my friend, is thickening. At the moment, there is no stopping the virus, and it continues to soldier on with apparent increasing ferocity. At best, we can only slow it down until a vaccine is found and widely distributed. There are an estimated 10-100 million undetected and asymptomatic cases worldwide.

Virus symptoms multiply as pandemic deepens

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Unread 11th May 2020, 12:45 PM   #866
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Originally Posted by Medon View Post

The war is still on course we are soldering on. Corona is a passing cloud There is no stopping us
Sounds like something I heard from a movie once...


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Unread 11th May 2020, 01:40 PM   #867
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Coronavirus: How they tried to curb Spanish flu pandemic in 1918..An interesting read...

https://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-52564371

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Unread 12th May 2020, 03:01 AM   #868
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A sobering chart for those who think that life is going to return to "normal" as soon as lockdown restrictions are lifted.

The next lot of restriction are going to be more severe than the present ones as the second wave hits, which it will do when people go back to doing what they did pre-pandemic.

The cold hard reality is that life as we know it has changed irrevocably, and will remain changed even when (if?) a vaccine is developed and the majority of people have been inoculated.

Time to start planning for the future rather than hoping the past is going to be resurrected.


"Life can only be understood backwards, but must be lived forwards" - Soren Kierkegaard
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Unread 12th May 2020, 03:11 PM   #869
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"Life can only be understood backwards, but must be lived forwards" - Soren Kierkegaard
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Unread 14th May 2020, 05:53 PM   #870
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This is not 2018 - it's not the Spanish Flu - and I think what happened in Wisconsin yesterday will be happening more often if states don't ease up.

Saving one dog will not change the world - but for that one dog, the world will change forever.
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Unread 15th May 2020, 12:57 PM   #871
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Somehow I got sick. After all the precautions, boom. Sick.

I don't think it's covid because both my girlfriend with asthma and I are already mostly better.

I did get somewhat concerned when she started complaining about
not breathing very well. That lasted for two days, I had no issues breathing.

Anyway, I found this article that says they found a cure for covid. HUH?

Am I reading this wrong?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/hea...gh/ar-BB147Tvt

"EXCLUSIVE — A California-based biopharmaceutical company claims to have discovered an antibody that could shield the human body from the coronavirus and flush it out of a person’s system within four days, Fox News has exclusively learned.
Later Friday, Sorrento Therapeutics will announce their discovery of the STI-1499 antibody, which the San Diego company said can provide "100% inhibition" of COVID-19, adding that a treatment could be available months before a vaccine hits the market.


"We want to emphasize there is a cure. There is a solution that works 100 percent," Dr. Henry Ji, founder and CEO of Sorrento Therapeutics, told Fox News. "If we have the neutralizing antibody in your body, you don't need the social distancing. You can open up a society without fear."
"


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Unread 15th May 2020, 01:39 PM   #872
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[quote=kenmichaels;11598400] A California-based biopharmaceutical company claims to have discovered an antibody that could shield the human body from the [URL="https://slack-redir.net/li."
"[/quote]

First off hope you guys are feeling better.

You read that right, took a quick looked at their stock just now. It opened the day at $2.62. this morning, currently at $7.20 and still going higher.
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Unread 18th May 2020, 12:36 AM   #873
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The virus has overstayed, I doubt if the world will manage to combat it the way the did to ebola. i think the only way out is to learn to stay with it.
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Unread 18th May 2020, 12:39 AM   #874
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Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

You have to understand that almost nobody shares my interests, and I've never met anyone that I thought shares my thought process.

So my entire life is spent around people that I may find interesting, enjoyable, or funny. But with the exception of my wife and son, I don't care about how they see the world...only if they are kind to others.

Frankly, if someone agrees with everything I say, that could be boring.....the best conversations I can have is with an intelligent person who sees the world differently than I do. Studying their thought process...trying to understand their thinking is what I find fascinating. And if they know something I don't, I can actually shut up for a minute (after I ask a question) and be entertained for hours.




That's because you are a human being that possesses empathy.

My goal is to understand their thinking, not change it.

My brother-in-law is a highly intelligent, educated, articulate man...who happens to be very religious and believes completely in ghosts. I can listen to him for hours. His arguments are not rational, but he presents them in an articulate way...and it's obvious he has given it a lot of thought. I never try to change his mind, because it's not about what I believe or about what he believes. It's that I enjoy him, not that he shares my world view. He cares about what he believes very deeply. And he and I care about each other. What difference does it make if he thinks ghosts are real? Do you get aggravated because a kid thinks Iron Man is real? How much time would you spend trying to convince the boy that he's wrong? Would you want to walk away from him? To me, it's the same thing.



At least that would make them interesting. Decades ago, one of my friends was a completely corruptible man with no moral compass. Every word was a lie (even to me). Every idea was a scheme to scam someone out of money (again, me...on a few occasions).

When we went out for a beer or three, he never paid, even though he always promised that he would get the next one. He even asked my girlfriend out when I told him she was angry with me.

He had no value as a friend at all. Why was he my friend? because he was fascinating. It was like watching a man with two heads...in a car wreck.... during a tornado...every time i saw him. I could never get mad at him, because I knew exactly what to expect from him. And he never disappointed.

The only thing I can't be around is meanness directed at the less powerful, or animals. Pettiness is fine, whining and complaining is fine... just not meanness toward others, like clerks in stores, or minimum wage earners....but being mean to someone because they are a different color? That's ignorant...and mean. I'd probably part ways with them . It's not a matter of altruism on my part, but I hate the injustice of people who are mean against the weak...or the people they see as weak.

But toward me? I thought it would be interesting to live in Paris France, because they find Americans annoying. And that would be constantly hilarious to me...knowing that everyone around me found me annoying. Of course, eventually we would become friends...but every new person I met there would be entertaining.

If you were a pro-social psychopath...all of this would make perfect sense to you.

You made me think of a few friends with that one!
I had a friend in Wash. D.C. he was so magnetic, so personable, everybody seemed to love him. He could resonate with anyone no matter how intelligent or challenged.

We both had Interned on Cap. Hill. (Way Back Machine!)

But he could also spend time in alternate realities for example. I heard he got a new job but when I was about to congratulate him it was just a few days later and he said he was on vacation! And he had what looked like a tall can of beer in his front pants...yes I know the difference. And..it was 8 am! But the guy just gets a smile out of you one way or another.


I have some friends now I met online, previous customers, then became great friends.
We could not be any more opposite on our viewpoints on anything not marketing related the past 3.5 years but I love the H out of them.
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Unread 18th May 2020, 12:04 PM   #875
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Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

A sobering chart for those who think that life is going to return to "normal" as soon as lockdown restrictions are lifted.

The next lot of restriction are going to be more severe than the present ones as the second wave hits, which it will do when people go back to doing what they did pre-pandemic.

The cold hard reality is that life as we know it has changed irrevocably, and will remain changed even when (if?) a vaccine is developed and the majority of people have been inoculated.

Time to start planning for the future rather than hoping the past is going to be resurrected.

Thing about the Spanish Flu. although it killed 53 million, did it change peoples lives, nope, once it went away things got back to normal. No extra measures or preporations, no vaccine developed. I think this is what will happen here apart from a vaccine and a treatment being developed which will be the excuse.

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Unread 18th May 2020, 04:44 PM   #876
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At this point in time the Spanish Flu is probably the best example. However it's like seeing your hole cards before anyone bets in Hold 'em. We have a little info but it's far from conclusive. But it's all the info we really have so it's what we go with until we have more info.

Which means COVID may not be nearly as bad as Spanish Flu or have additional waves.

This lack of info also means COVID can be a lot worse than the Spanish Flu with multiple waves increasing in deaths each time. Maybe the 5th wave of COVID will be the most deadly. Maybe the 1st wave was.

Herd immunity shouldn't be assumed. There may not be herd immunity and if there is it may not be permanent.

Thoughts for the day:
Contingency
Backup plan
Plan B
Just in Case

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Unread 18th May 2020, 04:56 PM   #877
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Re: Coronavirus? Not worthy of a mention here???
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So right - we can only make decisions based on what we KNOW - not on wht we might project or fear or expect....only on what we know.


We know increased testing has reveals many more cases than previously known - and those cases with light or no symptoms have changed the numbers as this is not as deadly as we believed.


The one thing we KNOW - without doubt - is that you can't shut down a country this site - and then just keep it closed. That's just common sense.


Wearing may help but I see peole removing masks - wearing over the mouth but not the nose - re-positing the mask constantly....not sure how much protection it offers. I do believe in the future people will look back and think the 'strict 6 ft social distancing' was a bit ridiculous. Don't get me wrong - i think not hugging and kissing everyone you meet - not shaking hands, etc is smart....just don't think '6 ft' is relevant.

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Unread 18th May 2020, 07:10 PM   #878
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Re: Coronavirus? Not worthy of a mention here???
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Keeping 6 feet away probably won't be viewed as ridiculous. Because the distance aerosols travel when people speak. Someone posted a good link yesterday here about that. According to another article 6ft is a good reference point. https://www.livescience.com/coronavi...istancing.html

The Spanish flu died down as in the graph above, but a form of it was around till 1957. According to the University of Cambridge around the 5.50 mark in this 2018 video called "Spanish Flu: a warning from history" about the virus.
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Unread 18th May 2020, 07:40 PM   #879
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The Spanish flu had a very strong influence on medical research and advancement, but the COVID-19 has stirred a much greater and unprecedented global mobilization in not only medicine but in nearly every facet of technology, economics, geo-politics, and social change. A major revolution in recombinant DNA for, example, is beginning for manufacturing synthetic vaccines for this and future pandemics. The coronavirus and its ongoing iterations are not going away anytime soon, if ever.

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Unread 19th May 2020, 08:31 AM   #880
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The war rages on between science an' gut.

How do we know this?

Aw, see, cos when your bestie heads ovah for a hug in the mall ... blowin' radioactive mucus from outta her eyeballs ... your Spidey sense says mebbe not today, Sweetie.

Same deal as Biblical types avoidin' lepers.

(Only they didn't do hugs so good then bcs not millennials.)

Beneath these two visceral reactions lyeth Le Science.

1) Even if'n your bestie jus' got a cold, prolly you should keep your distance anyways.

If that cold comes bundled with high risk of death, online chattin' would seem the least terminal option.

2) Leprosy deal is same, but you gotta binge watch Netflix for way longah before you suddenly discovah you can't exercise no more.

Point is : Touch close ... or booksy distant ... world's threats are as they are.

Which is why it is real weird we got plenty people figurin' they IMYOON from alla this.

Tellya, nuthin' I wanna do more now than hit a bar in my latest rags.

Or have Mom run her fingahs through my hair an' scream MY DNA IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS NIGHTMARE.

As for Benedict Cumberbatch & Moi ... on a beach, with marginally more grapes than tequila ... tellya, all my libertarian fantasies are as ash!

*sob* I can no more exchange loominous vowel combinations with my crush than I can revel in suckin' fluff from a carpet undah the personal tutelage of Claude Whitacre — an' the world's most powerful hoovah.


But this IRL desire don't mean I am above the base wreckin' powah of malign replicationals gonna rob evrywan of breath.

uh oh, lemme rephrase ...

But this IRL desire don't mean I am especially above the base wreckin' powah of malign replicationals gonna rob evrywan of breath.

So ima OK to flop out here at home, explorin' the potential of my own anatomy & spirityooality c/o yogah.

I got writin' also, plenty global touchpoints.

If I get real lucky, mebbe I can take on a recipe don't involve more than heatin' stuff up without manifestin' poison.

Hey, we all learnin' noo skills bcs the natyoore of the clay at our fingertips be changin', an' the wheel spinnin' kinda wonko.

Plus, we all dyin' anyways — even if evrythin' gowin' our way.

This is a real good reason naht to cavort all lumpen stoopids 'bout stuff.

Tellya, we hear so much 'bout the copywritah HERO'S JOURNEY.

Which is why the dwarves an' elves an' hoomans an' hobbitses squabbled their asses off till Sauron seared them from the Cosmos, right?

I so love that story!

Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.
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Unread 19th May 2020, 11:08 AM   #881
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Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

At this point in time the Spanish Flu is probably the best example.
I'll ask you what I ask everyone who says that to me.


Why?


I think the 1963/68 Hong Kong flu aka the 1968 Pandemic (H3N2 virus) fits the bill better.

That virus killed a few million worldwide and around 100,000 in the United States the first year it arrived, mostly above the age of 62/65 depending on what reports you believe, furthermore, it's the same virus we pay to get inoculated from in the winter.


The H3N2 virus continues to circulate worldwide as a seasonal influenza A virus. Seasonal H3N2 viruses, which are associated with severe illness in older people, undergo regular antigenic drift.

-
The Spanish flu mutated slowly and COVID19 mutates slowly, as far as I can tell that's the only real similarity we can compare to what's happening now.


One of my smart conservative friends said, well we didn't shut everything down then, what's the difference? There has to be a difference.
This cannot be the new norm, we won't let it.


I think that's a fair point.


So it got me to wondering if the reasons are partly due to the times. We had huge losses of life from all kinds of diseases like Polio, Measles, Smallpox, and other scary stuff such as crazy infant mortality rates.


Plus I think there were a few wars happening, some Asia Pacific stuff like Vietnam, and we were just kinda getting over losing millions of lives from World War II.


No internet or world information trading as we have now. We had what? Radio, basic TV and the phone.


Maybe that's nonsense and the real reason is our parents were just tougher than us.


Ten million lives saved by 1962 breakthrough, study says

Date: March 3, 2017
Source: University of Illinois at Chicago
Summary:
Nearly 200 million cases of polio, measles, mumps, rubella, varicella, adenovirus, rabies and hepatitis A -- and approximately 450,000 deaths from these diseases -- were prevented in the US alone between 1963 and 2015 by vaccination, researchers estimate.


---
IMO, history says we will forget and be normal again. How long that will take to happen appears to be the million-dollar question.


I have asked at least 10 people who were alive when it was happening and not a single one of them remember the Hong Kong flu, at all.


So my guess is, the people who did not lose anyone will get back to normal a whole lot faster than those who did and those who did won't want to talk about it, hastening the appearance of normal.


We know if we screw up everything in every way and it doesn't mutate that it will all be over in 3 or 4 years. Or it will come back every year and we will make a vaccine for it.


Either way, people will forget. Anti-vaccine propaganda keeps enough people from getting the flu shot every year that roughly 80,000 Americans directly die from it. If the COVID19 doesn't die out, that same propaganda machine will probably make the death toll double.


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Unread 19th May 2020, 12:33 PM   #882
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Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

One of my smart conservative friends said, well we didn't shut everything down then, what's the difference? There has to be a difference.
At first, we didn't want to think this was a real threat. Then...the rate of infections and deaths increase faster than anything most of us have experienced. And it scared the stuffings out of many of us.

The shutdown seemed like the best way to stop the growth rate. I'm sure it helped. And it got most of us in the habit of distancing, washing our hands frequently, and not gathering in large numbers.

But the pendulum swings both ways.

So now, we have an economic crisis that isn't going to end soon. Eventually, we'll arrive at an equilibrium...where the serious cases and deaths are managed without the whole world shutting down.

The news of a treatment is credible. It's credible because both the radically right and left leaning stations are saying the same thing. I hope it's available soon.

I know this, no matter what our Governors do, there will be protests....with guns. I hope it doesn't get worse.

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Unread 19th May 2020, 12:54 PM   #883
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One of the leading experts (there must be hundreds of them) gave a good explanation on some TV show or other this weekend.


He said the entire concept of 'shutting down' was ONLY to allow a 'window of time' to flatten the curve so hospitals could handle the cases - and to create 'methods' for people to use to stay as safe as possible.


He said this shut was NEVER meant to be more than a very few weeks and said the original purpose of shutting down has now been served - and it's time to re-open. He said the measured re-opening is ok - but you can't trust the numbers now because what may look like a 'surge' in cases is more likely an increase in testing.


He said the initial idea was not to do anything except 'pause' to slow the initial spread. His opinion was there is NO reason for all states not to proceed in opening to the fullest extent possible very quickly now.


The big problem is with 'distancing' - you can't enforce it on the public - and enforcing it on businesses will leads to more business closures.


There must be a balance beween safety and economic survival. If you don't have 6 feet between all your tables in a restaurant - nothing makes me HAVE to go to that restaurant Business willing ad able to keep big distances between customers can advertise that and let customers choose their business or the one that doesn't enforce 'distancing'.



The 25% and 50% occupancy requirements will be a death blow to many businesses. The social distancing requirement won't be feasible for some small business locations. Some of the re-opening plans need to be personal choice - not forcing all businesses to cater to the most frightened members of the public.

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Unread 19th May 2020, 01:02 PM   #884
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Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

At first, we didn't want to think this was a real threat.
I will go to my grave not understanding that. Many many people saw it coming and attempted to spread the alarm. People, from the top down just didn't want to believe it. I just don't get it. Worse most of them wanted to debate that it wasn't real, not actually try to do anything preventative in case it was.

In my minds eye,that's dereliction of duty

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

Then...the rate of infections and deaths increase faster than anything most of us have experienced. And it scared the stuffings out of many of us.
I wasn't scared, but I am now. Here is why, I'm being pretty anal about keeping the virus out.

The hand/house cleaning, sanitizing, food delivered, staying home, nobody over that doesn't live here, etc.

...and I got sick. There are only two ways it most lily happened.

1) My cable company knocked on my door and said we need to come in...he was wearing a mask, and he sounded and looked healthy, I even asked him about knowing any sick people and I also asked, do you want me to put one on and he said he didn't care. I put a mask on. he was int he house 5 maybe 10 minutes tops and I sanitized everything he touched after he left

2) My girlfriend walked out to the mailbox barefoot. (No mail had arrived)

Incidentally, she got sick first.

Other then she keep having issues breathing - few days with breathing issues, followed by a day without and now a few more days with, none of her symptoms match COVID19

Other then I'm super tired and have had a migraine for about a week or so, none of my symptoms match.

So I'm scared now because if some regular virus can get us and were being very diligent, I can imagine
the shit storm that's coming to those who don't realize they are the "at" risk group everyone is talking about.


Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

The news of a treatment is credible. It's credible because both the radically right and left leaning stations are saying the same thing. I hope it's available soon.
It looks like we might have many options coming...and some of them are so groundbreaking the world just changed without people realizing.

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

I know this, no matter what our Governors do, there will be protests....with guns. I hope it doesn't get worse.
Some people live their entire lives waiting for the perfect moment to be stupid.
I hope not to many of em pick this moment.


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Unread 19th May 2020, 02:08 PM   #885
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Florida man who called the pandemic a "fake crisis" on Facebook hospitalized with coronavirus

"Don’t be foolish like I was so the same thing won’t happen to you like it happened to me and my wife," he later wrote.

He’s feeling better, but his wife’s condition has yet to improve. She was still sedated and on a ventilator.

"After 3 weeks I have come to accept that my wife may pass away and the peace I have about it is that I know without a shadow of a doubt that she will be going home to be with the Lord. But I also do believe in miracles and I’m holding on to the chance that she may get healed but if not I am thankful for her I know we’ve been married for 8 years.”

Toward the end of his May 12 post, he asked for forgiveness as well as implored others to take the virus more seriously.

“We don’t have to fear this, and by heeding the advice doesn’t mean that you fear it, that means you’re showing wisdom during this epidemic."

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Unread 19th May 2020, 07:06 PM   #886
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Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

2) My girlfriend ...

Incidentally, she got sick first.

Other then she keep having issues breathing - few days with breathing issues, followed by a day without and now a few more days with, none of her symptoms match COVID19

Other then I'm super tired and have had a migraine for about a week or so, none of my symptoms match.
Maybe I'm reading to much into this but. I would be very concerned about her breathing issues, could be a allergy or some other issue. Read about NYC hospitals and other parts of the US. Were wondering where were all the people that normally show up in ICU with heart attacks and other issues. Please see the article below linked below. Quoted part of it for you and stay safe.

" Mount Sinai cardiovascular surgeon John Puskas was stumped: With nearly all the beds now occupied by victims of the novel coronavirus, where had all the heart patients gone? Even those left almost speechless by crushing chest pain weren’t coming through the ER."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...eed_story.html
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Unread 19th May 2020, 07:47 PM   #887
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Originally Posted by DWolfe View Post

Maybe I'm reading to much into this but. I would be very concerned about her breathing issues, could be a allergy or some other issue. Read about NYC hospitals and other parts of the US. Were wondering where were all the people that normally show up in ICU with heart attacks and other issues. Please see the article below linked below. Quoted part of it for you and stay safe.

" Mount Sinai cardiovascular surgeon John Puskas was stumped: With nearly all the beds now occupied by victims of the novel coronavirus, where had all the heart patients gone? Even those left almost speechless by crushing chest pain weren’t coming through the ER."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...eed_story.html
Personally I think you are not reading too much into it Dan. My first thought after reading Ken's comments were something like "There may be something else wrong and I personally would seek medical attention because it won't hurt."

In the minute it took me to write this post.. someone died of Covid 19. RIP.

Last edited on 20th May 2020 at 04:44 AM. Reason: BIG thumbs.
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Unread 20th May 2020, 04:00 AM   #888
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Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

This just in, the WHO has just declared coronavirus as a pandemic

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51839944

"WHO chief Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said the number of cases outside China had increased 13-fold over the past two weeks.

He said he was "deeply concerned" by "alarming levels of inaction" over the virus."

In the meantime, China declares victory over coronavirus

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/10/a...hnk/index.html

"As the coronavirus spreads around the world, China has been increasingly vocal about what it appears to feel is a lack of appreciation from the global community for its efforts to contain the outbreak, and preventing the crisis from being even worse than it may turn out to be."

It is sending help to Italy and other countries.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...lp-italy-fight
I think this coronavirus thing will make China the poorest country on Earth if the billions of dollars they will pay to compensate countries of the world is anything to go by.
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Unread 20th May 2020, 04:25 AM   #889
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If you American and Blaming China you are victim of propaganda and spin.

America has vast resources and sat on them for months.

Had offers to make Millions of Masks and turned them down.

There are consequences and repercussions for that....and deaths.

Not sure how you go from Hoax to Reopen Quick. What happened between those? On what Data?

COVID Briefing Viewership Ratings?


We are blessed this is 2020 and lucky this did not happen 2 or 3 years ago.
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Unread 20th May 2020, 11:38 AM   #890
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Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

I'll ask you what I ask everyone who says that to me.


Why?

Lockdowns, specifically in the USA. Both COVID and Spanish Flu caused lockdowns. H3N2 didn't.

For those who still haven't done their own research they'll find the cities in the USA with the strictest lockdowns during the Spanish Flue recovered financially more quickly than did the cities that were "open".

Common sense tells us that we can be "open" but if people are dying and afraid to go out, they aren't going to spend money. History tells us the cities with the most strict lockouts during the Spanish Flu recovered financially quicker.

There are many differences between Spanish and COVID so history isn't conclusive. However, a little evidence is much better than no evidence and until there is actual evidence to the contrary, I'm going with what actually happened and not theory and speculation. History shows us saving lives and saving the economy is the same thing.

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Unread 20th May 2020, 11:53 AM   #891
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

One of the leading experts (there must be hundreds of them) gave a good explanation on some TV show or other this weekend.


He said the entire concept of 'shutting down' was ONLY to allow a 'window of time' to flatten the curve so hospitals could handle the cases - and to create 'methods' for people to use to stay as safe as possible.


He said this shut was NEVER meant to be more than a very few weeks and said the original purpose of shutting down has now been served - and it's time to re-open. He said the measured re-opening is ok - but you can't trust the numbers now because what may look like a 'surge' in cases is more likely an increase in testing.


He said the initial idea was not to do anything except 'pause' to slow the initial spread. His opinion was there is NO reason for all states not to proceed in opening to the fullest extent possible very quickly now.


The big problem is with 'distancing' - you can't enforce it on the public - and enforcing it on businesses will leads to more business closures.


There must be a balance beween safety and economic survival. If you don't have 6 feet between all your tables in a restaurant - nothing makes me HAVE to go to that restaurant Business willing ad able to keep big distances between customers can advertise that and let customers choose their business or the one that doesn't enforce 'distancing'.



The 25% and 50% occupancy requirements will be a death blow to many businesses. The social distancing requirement won't be feasible for some small business locations. Some of the re-opening plans need to be personal choice - not forcing all businesses to cater to the most frightened members of the public.
I have a problem with this "expert" opinion. Yes, the main goal of the lockdown is to flatten the curve.


However, that isn't the only benefit. As time goes on we learn more about COVID and are much more likely to come up with better treatments and vaccinations. If I have a case of COVID I'd much rather take my chances 6-12 months from now than today. Wouldn't you?



I'm surprised an "expert" didn't mention this additional benefit of extending and delaying the infection periods to a time when we may have better options to treat it.



As far as reopening...these businesses can reopen all they want. I'm not sitting in a restaurant or theater until COVID is over.

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Unread 20th May 2020, 12:53 PM   #892
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Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

I

As far as reopening...these businesses can reopen all they want. I'm not sitting in a restaurant or theater until COVID is over.
Same here.

I think any preventable loss of life is a travesty. In a nutshell I think anyone who thinks differently is a monster hiding in plain sight. Opening now is just one more domino in this mishandled cluster duck. I, like you, look at history to get a glimpse.

Every huge death toll situation like we have now has used quarantines to stop it...

I mean every single person alive has heard of the Bubonic plague

...anyway incase anyone missed it...in my not so humble opinion...opening as we are is stupid.
The First Quarantine

The Adriatic port city of Ragusa (modern-day Dubrovnik) was the first to pass legislation requiring the mandatory quarantine of all incoming ships and trade caravans in order to screen for infection.
The order, which miraculously survived in the Dubrovnik archives, reads that on July 27, 1377, the city’s Major Council passed a law “which stipulates that those who come from plague-infested areas shall not enter [Ragusa] or its district unless they spend a month on the islet of Mrkan or in the town of Cavtat, for the purpose of disinfection.”


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Unread 20th May 2020, 01:35 PM   #893
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As far as reopening...these businesses can reopen all they want. I'm not sitting in a restaurant or theater until COVID is over.
I won't either - but it will be my choice. Bringing up a comparison to the 1377 plague is, to me, totally over the top. Of course there have been quarantines in history - but this is NOW and we can only make decisions on what happens now. US number are declining daily and for most states the deaths are in single digits now.

I think perhaps both of you - like myself - can afford to stay quarantined. It's a choice we are free to make.

I believe others have a right to go back to work - to re-open their business - should THEY choose to. I think it's time to let people have a choice again.

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Unread 20th May 2020, 05:55 PM   #894
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

I won't either - but it will be my choice. Bringing up a comparison to the 1377 plague is, to me, totally over the top. Of course there have been quarantines in history - but this is NOW and we can only make decisions on what happens now. US number are declining daily and for most states the deaths are in single digits now.

Of course, you think that... I was running late to the vet and did not realize I cut out a few lines ....oops

I don't remember exactly what the words were, but the gist was, look, we learned over 700 years ago how effective quarantining, social distancing, and cleaning stuff is and more importantly, history like the Bubonic plague shows the more draconian the lockdown, the better, period. Each time. The BP was just something I'm pretty sure everyone in primary school knows about so I used it as an example, but history also shows the Romans and the Greeks each used quarantine with the same results.

Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

" US number are declining daily and for most states the deaths are in single digits now."
I hope you're correct, but I think you should hold off on judgment for another four to six weeks. We are still looking at data from behind...heck a super break out could have happened seven days ago and we would not know yet.

Also. Says who? A lady in Florida was just fired for not fudging the numbers to show opening was safe. Is that true? I don't know, it appears to be...and if it is how many other places are doing the same?

Perhaps I have a more vested interest since my family is in NY and NJ and some of them got pretty sick for a long time and for a few of them getting better wasn't assured.

Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

I believe others have a right to go back to work - to re-open their business - should THEY choose to. I think it's time to let people have a choice again.
I do too. I believe everyone has a choice to make. I told the vet I was sick on the phone, she said and I quote. I don't care, you will be doing roadside pick up.

See that works for me, we both made a choice...lots of people aren't going to be given a choice and I have a problem with that.


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Unread 20th May 2020, 05:59 PM   #895
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Re: Coronavirus? Not worthy of a mention here???
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Not good.

China’s New Outbreak Shows Signs the Virus Could Be Changing


Chinese doctors are seeing the coronavirus manifest differently among patients in its new cluster of cases in the northeast region compared to the original outbreak in Wuhan, suggesting that the pathogen may be changing in unknown ways and complicating efforts to stamp it out.

Patients found in the northern provinces of Jilin and Heilongjiang appear to carry the virus for a longer period of time and take longer to test negative, Qiu Haibo, one of China’s top critical care doctors, told state television on Tuesday.

Patients in the northeast also appear to be taking longer than the one to two weeks observed in Wuhan to develop symptoms after infection, and this delayed onset is making it harder for authorities to catch cases before they spread, said Qiu, who is now in the northern region treating patients.


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Unread 20th May 2020, 10:10 PM   #896
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It's nice to have choices. Unfortunately, by having choices, most of us truly have no choice at all.

I can do my best, but if my wife chooses to go shopping or to go to a movie, my choice is all but nullified due to the delay of noticeable symptoms from the point of being contagious. Someone else's choice is someone else's death sentence.

I see both sides of the issue, but I think the reopening of society should have been in staggered stages and done more slowly.

The next two weeks will be an interesting test and I hope I'm dead wrong (it'll be a nice time for my lifelong streak to come to an end...).

If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.
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Unread 21st May 2020, 08:48 AM   #897
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Yesterday I got the call at the store.

"Is Cheryl there?" It was her sister-in-law.

She started crying on the phone. I was certain our brother-in-law had died. Cheryl was at home. I asked what was wrong, and she said "Oh, nothing. I just need to talk to Cheryl".

I said I'd have Cheryl call her right back.

So.....My brother-in-law...81 years old....went to a meeting of a local genealogy group a week ago. About a dozen old people...no masks...no distancing. What an idiot.

Now three people in the group have tested positive for the virus, including our brother-in-law. So far, no symptoms.

Now, Cheryl is taking prescriptions to their home (He has a spectrum of medical issues), and nobody is seeing them.

And now we'll wait.

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Unread 21st May 2020, 09:25 AM   #898
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Says who?

I've pretty much used the SAME site to track covid-19 numbers since this pandemic began. If you go form one site to another- one country's stats' to another - one media source to another....it can drive you crazy.


I've used this site because it's easy to compare yesterday and today - to see trends - and from what i've been able to learn - it's as accurate as any other 'count' - because it relies on countries/states to report as other counts do.


https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


Clicking on 'usa' I can compare states and the sites includes a lot of facts other count sites don't - such as cases/million, tests/million, deaths/million.


I don't think it's big news that a virus is mutating - that's what they do. "China says" is not reassuring to me so I'll wait and see. China also said patients were getting covid-19 more than once - turns out that's a testing issue, not a recurring episode.


I do think the reporting on this is becoming more and more sensationalized as the risk decreases. I think in the US we have reached the tipping point - or perhaps exceeded it - where the damage done by a shutdown is greater than the 'safety' provided.



.My brother-in-law...81 years old....went to a meeting of a local genealogy group a week ago. About a dozen old people...no masks...no distancing. What an idiot.

Is he an idiot - or at 81 does he see this in a different way? He's in a high risk group - but everything is high risk in your 80's. It's a very stubborn age judging from some of the elders in my family.

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Unread 21st May 2020, 09:55 AM   #899
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

Is he an idiot - or at 81 does he see this in a different way? He's in a high risk group - but everything is high risk in your 80's. It's a very stubborn age judging from some of the elders in my family.
He was aware of the virus. Aware of the fact that he is in a high risk group. We sent them face masks, and they were wearing them to go shopping.

He may have been stubborn. But more likely, he just wanted to be with friends. And masks would have hampered that. He had no idea that anyone there would test positive.

We are hoping that it's a false positive. But we'll see.

All my wife's brothers and sisters are phenomenal people. It was a little jarring when I first met them. They are all great cooks too. (no reason that it matters...no reason at all. None.)

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Unread 21st May 2020, 09:57 AM   #900
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Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

Yesterday I got the call at the store.

"Is Cheryl there?" It was her sister-in-law.

She started crying on the phone. I was certain our brother-in-law had died. Cheryl was at home. I asked what was wrong, and she said "Oh, nothing. I just need to talk to Cheryl".

I said I'd have Cheryl call her right back.

So.....My brother-in-law...81 years old....went to a meeting of a local genealogy group a week ago. About a dozen old people...no masks...no distancing. What an idiot.

Now three people in the group have tested positive for the virus, including our brother-in-law. So far, no symptoms.

Now, Cheryl is taking prescriptions to their home (He has a spectrum of medical issues), and nobody is seeing them.

And now we'll wait.

Oh my Claude. I'm not tight with God, but I'll say a word for all of you. Walk tall Claude.

In the minute it took me to write this post.. someone died of Covid 19. RIP.
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