[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

One thing I'm finding very curious about the turmoil on financial markets is the gold price. In 2008 during the meltdown, gold went through the roof as investors sought a safe haven.

This time around I'd expected a similar pattern to emerge. The price of gold is getting hammered along with everything else though and I'm buggered if I can think of a reason for it.

Anyone have any ideas as to why this is?

Agreed with the bonds market, also getting hammered it is surprizing to see gold getting clobbered also.

Might have something to do with the likes of Robert K, (Rich Dad Poor Dad author) and others, who for a long time, said that the mother or all crashes was around the corner and gold, silver and the like were havens or what you should be putting everything into.

Since Gold would go sky high and everything else would plunge.

Then apart from it not happening, the gold price on occasion has also plunged and was not as good as the doomsters prophesied.


We can discuss now if C-19 is going to create that scenario, but l think that we both know that the ASX 200 and the US equivalent isn't going to self implode, but bounce back.



It may cause a worldwide recession, although AU, will probably avoid the worst of it, with the cash we can throw at it.

But the ASX200 plunding down forever, lol, BHP, or the banks are not going to hit baseline, or at least l have a hard time believing that.

I doubt that the US getting off the Gold standard, and its currency losing face value is directly involved?

But l would say that influencal people pushing the disaster and gold is all you should invest in, may be the reason.

[whateverpedia]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

It may cause a worldwide recession, although AU, will probably avoid the worst of it, with the cash we can throw at it.:

Bollocks. Most of the money is being thrown at businesses to try and get them to keep employing people. That will do exactly bugger all unless consumers keep pumping money into the company's till. Without that the companies will have no other choice to but to lay staff of or sack them. That creates a feedback loop where everyone stops spending and more companies "downsize", which causes people to stop spending, and so on and so on.

Scomo's response to the coronavirus pandemic has been even worse than his response to the bushfire crisis. Too little, too late and aimed at the wrong target.

What kept Australia out of the recession of 2008 was a stimulus package that "went early, went households and went hard". This half-arsed package has "gone late, gone to the wrong target and gone weak".

We ARE going to have our first recession in 29 years. There is no escaping it. And there's no blaming the opposition for this mess as the incumbent mob have been in office for seven years and have been caught asleep at the wheel twice in the space of six months. Both the bushfire and the current crises could've been minimised if they'd actually been doing their jobs.

Start getting your information from reliable sources like the Reserve Bank or the Bureau Of Statistics and not from the right wing bullshit artists in the Newscorp/Seven/Nine media cartel.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Bollocks. Most of the money is being thrown at businesses to try and get them to keep employing people. That will do exactly bugger all unless consumers keep pumping money into the company's till. Without that the companies will have no other choice to but to lay staff of or sack them. That creates a feedback loop where everyone stops spending and more companies "downsize", which causes people to stop spending, and so on and so on.

Scomo's response to the coronavirus pandemic has been even worse than his response to the bushfire crisis. Too little, too late and aimed at the wrong target.

What kept Australia out of the recession of 2008 was a stimulus package that "went early, went households and went hard". This half-arsed package has "gone late, gone to the wrong target and gone weak".

We ARE going to have our first recession in 29 years. There is no escaping it. And there's no blaming the opposition for this mess as the incumbent mob have been in office for seven years and have been caught asleep at the wheel twice in the space of six months. Both the bushfire and the current crises could've been minimised if they'd actually been doing their jobs.

Start getting your information from reliable sources like the Reserve Bank or the Bureau Of Statistics and not from the right wing bullshit artists in the Newscorp/Seven/Nine media cartel.

You are probably right, businesse's may not benefit from it much, as would individuals, and giving the unemployed and people on disability benefits $750 will do nothing, except keep their heads above water for a little longer.

That or go on a spending spree at Coles or Woolies?

I tend to stay with the Financial Review, eventhough they are not as good as they used to be.

And good to know that the rules here allow for a just and level platform of which issues can be discussed!

[Kay King]

Whatty -

After 2008 gold didn't peak in price till 2011-12 - and then began dropping back down soon after that. Too soon to see the trend.

I don't remember if it was this thread or another that began with ideas for profiting in a time of crisis. Did you see the story of the two brothers in Tennessee who bought 18,000 bottles of hand sanitizer in January to 'make a buck'?


They sold some of it at high prices till ebay and amazon shut them down - then they received a 'cease and desist' from law enforcement...now are stuck with 17,000 bottles they can't sell - and being investigated by the state Attorney General for profiteering.

Oops.

[Dan Riffle]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Whatty -

After 2008 gold didn't peak in price till 2011-12 - and then began dropping back down soon after that. Too soon to see the trend.

I don't remember if it was this thread or another that began with ideas for profiting in a time of crisis. Did you see the story of the two brothers in Tennessee who bought 18,000 bottles of hand sanitizer in January to 'make a buck'?


They sold some of it at high prices till ebay and amazon shut them down - then they received a 'cease and desist' from law enforcement...now are stuck with 17,000 bottles they can't sell - and being investigated by the state Attorney General for profiteering.

Oops.

They've now "donated" their excess inventory.

[myob]

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

One thing I'm finding very curious about the turmoil on financial markets is the gold price. In 2008 during the meltdown, gold went through the roof as investors sought a safe haven.

This time around I'd expected a similar pattern to emerge. The price of gold is getting hammered along with everything else though and I'm buggered if I can think of a reason for it.

Anyone have any ideas as to why this is?

As an investor myself, I believed the stock market has risen to lofty levels beyond any reasonable justification of economic growth.

Correction has long been overdue IMHO, and I've been largely out of the financials for a few months. Rather than hitting gold and other commodities, I think investors fleeing stocks are holding onto cash or investing in real estate.

Gold also has been way overpriced with little further upside, and I don't believe there is anything fundamentally wrong with business affected by the stock market.

Like the 2008 recession, I made a killing in the stock market by investing in otherwise sound companies at a steep discount. Savvy investors may be doing this again, because most companies really are fundamentally strong.

Technically, we're in a bear market, but I consider this perhaps more of an overdue correction from a 11 year bull run. Perhaps not now, but I believe huge profits can be made through selective opportunistic investing.

[whateverpedia]

Originally Posted by myob

As an investor myself, I believed the stock market has risen to lofty levels beyond any reasonable justification of economic growth.

Correction has long been overdue IMHO, and I've been largely out of the financials for a few months. Rather than hitting gold and other commodities, I think investors fleeing stocks are holding onto cash or investing in real estate.

Gold also has been way overpriced with little further upside, and I don't believe there is anything fundamentally wrong with business affected by the stock market.

Like the 2008 recession, I made a killing in the stock market by investing in otherwise sound companies at a steep discount. Savvy investors may be doing this again, because most companies really are fundamentally strong.

Technically, we're in a bear market, but I consider this perhaps more of an overdue correction from a 11 year bull run. Perhaps not now, but I believe huge profits can be made through selective opportunistic investing.

I agree with you entirely. During the bull run I've been accumulating cash. Along the way I've put a small amount of money into speculative plays like medical marijuana companies a couple of years ago. As they went through the roof, I took my initial investment out (plus a modest profit) and just held on to what amounted to shares that cost me nothing. As the boom in them ended I sold those off as well.

At the start of the year I had a smidge over 30% of my portfolio in cash. Following the latest ructions that is now close to 50% despite me having pretty much the same amount in cash as at the start of the year.

That pile is waiting for the inevitable turn around and then I'll start picking up quality stocks at bargain prices. That'll probably be my last big splurge before I reach retirement age.

Until then though, things are probably going to get a lot worse before they begin to get better.

[myob]

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

That pile is waiting for the inevitable turn around and then I'll start picking up quality stocks at bargain prices. That'll probably be my last big splurge before I reach retirement age.

Until then though, things are probably going to get a lot worse before they begin to get better.

I've always been optimistic, which has been extremely good for me in many ways. The stock market, overall, has been on an uptrend for more than 50 years.

Tragic as this is for many affected by the coronavirus, our economy is strong and resilient. The unknown, uncertainty, and fear are the primary drivers in financial turmoil.

Having said that, I wouldn't wait for a "turnaround". That could be too late. I've been using this adage somewhat as a guide in the stock market; "Buy on bad news, sell on good news."

Of course, understand the underlying fundamentals of each individual stock, but also I would never try to predict the bottom. There are opportunities now for great bargains with companies affected by emotional investors.

One example of a sector is the airline industry. They are currently way underpriced, yet have had record sales. Most certainly, IMO, investing in these stocks would have a huge upside in a few months.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by myob

One example of a sector is the airline industry. They are currently way underpriced, yet have had record sales. Mosertainly, IMO, investing in these stocks would have a huge upside in a few months.

really ..the airlines are asking the us government for 50 billion dollars to help them get through the travel bans and large number of flight cancellations. if their stocks go down to almost nothing near zero then snap up as many as you can haha .. same with hotel industries .. cruise lines and anything that will

[Dan Riffle]

Originally Posted by Odahh

really ..the airlines are asking the us government for 50 billion dollars to help them get through the travel bans and large number of flight cancellations.

And then they'll recover and their price will recover.

[dsimms]

I went to the store today just find out all all the eggs and chicken are gone, and I mean gone, and the store said they only got half their order, and that tells me that stores are already facing transportation delays, even my walmart order took 7 days to arrive when it normally arrives in 2 days...

and by reading earlier posts, there are more efficient ways to thin the heard, because if you take out manufacturing, transportation then that would be a certain death to most people that rely on such services, if other sectors shut down such as Electricity, water, then most of the planet would die.

So if Manufacturing, Transportation, Electric, Water were to be shut off, then I suspect a good portion of the planet would be in real big trouble, and that would be far worse then the Coronavirus...

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by dsimms

I went to the store today just find out all all the eggs and chicken are gone, and I mean gone, and the store said they only got half their order, and that tells me that stores are already facing transportation delays, even my walmart order took 7 days to arrive when it normally arrives in 2 days...

and by reading earlier posts, there are more efficient ways to thin the heard, because if you take out manufacturing, transportation then that would be a certain death to most people that rely on such services, if other sectors shut down such as Electricity, water, then most of the planet would die.

So if Manufacturing, Transportation, Electric, Water were to be shut off, then I suspect a good portion of the planet would be in real big trouble, and that would be far worse then the Coronavirus...

What will be delivered first..The Chicken or the Egg

Power, water, gas, electricity etc will always be a priority as well as food and medicine.

Most stores are only running out of stuff because us dumb assed humans are panic buying and stockpiling. There is no shortage as yet, just a little difficult to keep up with an increased demand.

[GordonJ]

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

And then they'll recover and their price will recover.

Maybe. Perhaps you are right.

A lot of optimism from the investor crowd, maybe some irrational exuberance too. Maybe.

There has been a lot of talk about:
"The other side" of this thing.
A return to normalcy.
When we bounce back.
The light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe all that is unwarranted positivity too?

We stand at the intersection, a crossroads with four or more possible outcomes.

From DIRE off the deep end sky is falling, to hoax and nothing to worry about.

ALL of us can only speculate, although I would remind some of you that for centuries the belief that real estate always holds value and was the safest investment out there...and became the normalcy bias...the idea that people tend to believe things will work or function the same way in the future as they did in the past...it would be wise to examine our own bias about the future.

The DIRE end of the world as we know it crowd sez, the world will never be the same and from those who want to bunker down, stock up on ammo and survive the apocalypse (for some reason) to those who believe it will set us back to feudal ways and be the humanity holocaust many are expecting.

Maybe so. Hope not.

At the other end, are those who shout HOAX, no big deal, media exploitation, this too shall pass when the summer comes. May be they are right, and it turns out the way Y2K doomsdayers said it wouldn't...nothing happens.

Then there are a couple or a few different and in between BELIEFS at this time, and only time will reveal which if any of them will be what the future brings.

It could change a lot of things significantly, the way we conduct our selves and business and alter our lifestyles.

It could quickly pass and consumerism will once again win the day.

The stock market will be just fine. (I have personal doubt here.)

We will be just fine and come out it even better than we were. Maybe.

Sure, we all are guessing on what the future will bring. This is different from anything I've experienced. Maybe my parents and grandparents who went through WW I and the Great Depression might have insights.

I'm a Happy Days child of the 50's. Went through civil rights movement, the hot summer where cities burned, Vietnam and protests, Riots in the street. Have been through many natural disasters, almost everything but wildfire, I feel for those folks. But hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, earthquakes, and other such "natural disasters", we see the worst and the best of humanity. I like to think the good outweighed the bad in the past, where when we got through it, whatever the IT was, people helped people.

And MAYBE, this will be the same thing. It just feels very different.

Even a very short period of time under these conditions will have ripple effects for most of us for a long time to come.

Like Sergeant Shultz on the old TV show, HOGAN'S HEROES, portrayed by actor John Banner, I too

"I know nothing".

I admit it. I plan and prepare for the worst, hope for the best and do it one day at a time, hopefully, to the best of my ability, humor and with a knowing, we all goin die.

But (and revealing what a true TV brain I am), I am going to borrow from Arya Stark on the Game of Thrones, who repeatedly said to death...

NOT TODAY.

And that comes with it's own expectaion of LIVING fully, completely, unafraid of the unknown and taking it one day at a time.

World War C-19 will change the world. Maybe.

MAYBE NOT. But it won't change me.

GordonJ

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by myob

As an investor myself, I believed the stock market has risen to lofty levels beyond any reasonable justification of economic growth.

Correction has long been overdue IMHO, and I've been largely out of the financials for a few months. Rather than hitting gold and other commodities, I think investors fleeing stocks are holding onto cash or investing in real estate.

Gold also has been way overpriced with little further upside, and I don't believe there is anything fundamentally wrong with business affected by the stock market.

Like the 2008 recession, I made a killing in the stock market by investing in otherwise sound companies at a steep discount. Savvy investors may be doing this again, because most companies really are fundamentally strong.

Technically, we're in a bear market, but I consider this perhaps more of an overdue correction from a 11 year bull run. Perhaps not now, but I believe huge profits can be made through selective opportunistic investing.

Agreed, the ASX 200, had a huge downturn around 2008, and has had a large downturn lately, especially with the dead cat bounce l saw recently, but honestly even if AU, ends up with a trillion dollar dept at the end of this we will bounce back.

Originally Posted by myob

I've always been optimistic, which has been extremely good for me in many ways. The stock market, overall, has been on an uptrend for more than 50 years.

Tragic as this is for many affected by the coronavirus, our economy is strong and resilient. The unknown, uncertainty, and fear are the primary drivers in financial turmoil.

Having said that, I wouldn't wait for a "turnaround". That could be too late. I've been using this adage somewhat as a guide in the stock market; "Buy on bad news, sell on good news."

Of course, understand the underlying fundamentals of each individual stock, but also I would never try to predict the bottom. There are opportunities now for great bargains with companies affected by emotional investors.

One example of a sector is the airline industry. They are currently way underpriced, yet have had record sales. Most certainly, IMO, investing in these stocks would have a huge upside in a few months.

Yes, predicting the bottom is a b...ch, but there are huge profits if you can.

I tend to wait for the underlining upward trend, and other markers before investing, although with the markets so volatile l may stay with the ASX than the US, since l can watch the aussie one all day, and pull out if needed.

The NYSE, l can watch for an hour or so, then wait and pray, and sure l can put in stop loss, but most of the big falls tend to happen pre-market.

[myob]

Originally Posted by GordonJ

World War C-19 will change the world. Maybe.

MAYBE NOT. But it won't change me.

GordonJ

This will change the world, just as other major epidemics and pandemics in history. But the global infrastructure being put in place now will help to more quickly identify and counter future viral catastrophes.

Viruses evolve - that's just what they do. For some perspective, the CDC estimates that there has been over 22,000 deaths from the current annual seasonal flu (non COVID-19)
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden...-estimates.htm

We need to change our lifestyle as advised by medical experts during the current crisis - to prevent the spread of this highly contagious virus to the vulnerable such as the elderly (55+) and those with compromised immune systems.

[kenmichaels]

I don't know which is scarier - the people partying and the police having to step in

Video of police clearing New Orleans’ Bourbon Street

https://twitter.com/i/status/1239060530905653248


or this headline - which I assume is one of the thousands on its way.

Spanish soccer coach for Atletico Portada Alta dies from coronavirus at age 21

The kid did not even know he had an underlying condition and it killed him.

I believe thats going to happen over and over, across all age brackets.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/soc...cid=spartandhp

[Claude Whitacre]

At this rate of contagion, in a month, it will be as bad as it gets ...and in a couple of months, people will start getting better faster than people are getting sick.

And then we can go back to living our lives.

This morning the UPS guy delivered a box to our store. I joked "Do you want a hug?"

And he went on a rant about the "sheep believing the sky is falling. It's the flu! We know how to wash our hands.".

Honest, I forgot that there are people out there like that.

This isn't a Zombie Apocalypse, but it's damn inconvenient. Starting tomorrow, we are reducing the hours we are open (for the next two weeks or so), and may just shut the store down if nobody shows up.

But this too shall pass.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

At this rate of contagion, in a month, it will be as bad as it gets ...and in a couple of months, people will start getting better faster than people are getting sick.

And then we can go back to living our lives.

This morning the UPS guy delivered a box to our store. I joked "Do you want a hug?"

And he went on a rant about the "sheep believing the sky is falling. It's the flu! We know how to wash our hands.".

Honest, I forgot that there are people out there like that.

This isn't a Zombie Apocalypse, but it's damn inconvenient. Starting tomorrow, we are reducing the hours we are open (for the next two weeks or so), and may just shut the store down if nobody shows up.

But this too shall pass.

Too many people in my close circle are like that.

Stupid

[Dan Riffle]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

And he went on a rant about the "sheep believing the sky is falling. It's the flu! We know how to wash our hands."

I'd be willing to bet what's left of my 401k that this guy is generally a selfish SOB.

Yes, for the general populace it amounts to the flu. However, do you really want to kill your grandma? Or diabetic Uncle Joe?

[Kay King]

In Cali - the gov is commandeering hotels with plans to move the homeless into rooms. Sounds humane - but why hotels rather than empty, state owned student dorms? What will the rooms look like in 2 months? How will they get the people to leave when it's time to go? food service? cleaning? laundry?

In the past the homeless population has not been decimated by various flu events. It's not a healthy population - so what does that happen? For years doctors have said we take too many antibiotics and use too many germ killing products....will be some interesting studies done when this is over.


Maybe it's still early in the pandemic but some countries like India and some in Africa have dense areas of population - but very few cases of this disease. Why might that be?

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Kay King

In Cali - the gov is commandeering hotels with plans to move the homeless into rooms. Sounds humane - but why hotels rather than empty, state owned student dorms? What will the rooms look like in 2 months? How will they get the people to leave when it's time to go? food service? cleaning? laundry?

In the past the homeless population has not been decimated by various flu events. It's not a healthy population - so what does that happen? For years doctors have said we take too many antibiotics and use too many germ killing products....will be some interesting studies done when this is over.


Maybe it's still early in the pandemic but some countries like India and some in Africa have dense areas of population - but very few cases of this disease. Why might that be?

India stepped up by tracking the people with the virus and quarantining
everyone they came into contact with (1000+) .
They did it with cell phone and video surveillance.

sorry- I cant find a link to the article I read.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

I'd be willing to bet what's left of my 401k that this guy is generally a selfish SOB.

Yes, for the general populace it amounts to the flu. However, do you really want to kill your grandma? Or diabetic Uncle Joe?

so many people who refer to others as sheep .. who believe everything is a hoax ..and that the government is really looking for an opportunity to cull the herd and throw people into fema camps ..

there is no reasoning with them .. just moveing on to other subjects .. or walking away ..

the zombies in this .. are the people who think they will be fine even if they catch it so they are going about their lives and not protecting other people from their stupidity ..

the many reason we have been advancing as fast as we have the last few hundred years .. is because a small number of people have been able to make advancments that eventually improve the lives of most of the rest of the people .. we still have the same brain and same physical build we had 200,000 years ago .. prone to believing the easies things to believe .

the thing about this though is it is effecting the entire world at about the same time .. and the smartest minds on the planet are working on the solution and talking to each other .. massive world wide ab testing ..and in the US the fda being push into warp speed immediate approval mode ..

there are probably several drug we already have that can fight this .. and apperently two anti maleria drugs are showing potential .. and just need to be approved for use in treating cv 19

what the doctors and scientist working on this now apperently need is awebsite or database or something online where credentialed experts working on this can share and find information from other experts ...

can anyone in this community help with that

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

I don't know which is scarier - the people partying and the police having to step in

Video of police clearing New Orleans’ Bourbon Street

https://twitter.com/i/status/1239060530905653248


or this headline - which I assume is one of the thousands on its way.

Spanish soccer coach for Atletico Portada Alta dies from coronavirus at age 21

The kid did not even know he had an underlying condition and it killed him.

I believe thats going to happen over and over, across all age brackets.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/soc...cid=spartandhp

A pre existing condition, discovered or not, allowed the virus to carry him off though. This is unfortunate but influenza could have done the same thing.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

I'd be willing to bet what's left of my 401k that this guy is generally a selfish SOB.

Yes, for the general populace it amounts to the flu. However, do you really want to kill your grandma? Or diabetic Uncle Joe?

You are mistaken. This virus attacks the lungs far more than ordinary flu. And so far in the US, 20 times more people die from this virus, at every age, than with the flu. And at any age, with an underlying medical condition, these figures spike.

In Italy, it's 40 times more deadly than the flu. Why? Not enough hospital beds for the serious cases. They are now making decisions of who gets treated and who doesn't. We are two weeks behind them...on the same curve.

It's that at the advanced ages, these percentages really look terrible. If my wife gets this she has an 8% chance of dying. More, because she has a generally weak immune system.

And the hidden danger is that the flu shows signs just after you get it. This virus shows no symptoms (for whatever reason) for between 4 and 14 days. So far more people are going to get this from innocent carriers than the flu.

In a few months, this will all be a memory. But for now? It's a real threat.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

At this rate of contagion, in a month, it will be as bad as it gets ...and in a couple of months, people will start getting better faster than people are getting sick.

And then we can go back to living our lives.

This morning the UPS guy delivered a box to our store. I joked "Do you want a hug?"

And he went on a rant about the "sheep believing the sky is falling. It's the flu! We know how to wash our hands.".

Honest, I forgot that there are people out there like that.

This isn't a Zombie Apocalypse, but it's damn inconvenient. Starting tomorrow, we are reducing the hours we are open (for the next two weeks or so), and may just shut the store down if nobody shows up.

But this too shall pass.

"This isn't a Zombie Apocalypse, but it's damn inconvenient. Starting tomorrow, we are reducing the hours we are open (for the next two weeks or so), and may just shut the store down if nobody shows up."

So are people showing up. A deadly pandemic is bearing down on me. I think I need to go out and buy a Riccar. I would close for a few weeks at least. Spend some quality time with your wife and two wildcats

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by lanfear63

"This isn't a Zombie Apocalypse, but it's damn inconvenient. Starting tomorrow, we are reducing the hours we are open (for the next two weeks or so), and may just shut the store down if nobody shows up."

So are people showing up. A deadly pandemic is bearing down on me. I think I need to go out and buy a Riccar. I would close for a few weeks at least. Spend some quality time with your wife and two wildcats

We are still having people show up, but in very reduced numbers. The fact is, most of my work is done here. My wife is an artist and all her supplies are here. So even if we closed to the public, we'll probably still show up for several hours a day.

Originally Posted by myob

such as the elderly (55+) .

Hey! ...................HEY! I'm standing right here!

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

And the hidden danger is that the flu shows signs just after you get it. This virus shows no symptoms (for whatever reason) for between 4 and 14 days. So far more people are going to get this from innocent carriers than the flu.

In a few months, this will all be a memory. But for now? It's a real threat.

in a few months we will have the tools in place to treat this even without a vaccine ..with so much stuff shut down.. one tactic is to go to big retail chaines who where shutting down stores anyway.. and creal the stores and set up temporary icu beds strictly for cv-19 patients ..this can be done in nearly every city in the country ...

or just build military style triage tents in large unused parking lots ..for wuhan flu cases.

the policy is to slow this down so we don't have whats going on in itally happen .. everyone in the Usa will eventually get expose somehow ..

[Dan Riffle]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

You are mistaken. This virus attacks the lungs far more than ordinary flu. And so far in the US, 20 times more people die from this virus, at every age, than with the flu. And at any age, with an underlying medical condition, these figures spike.

In Italy, it's 40 times more deadly than the flu. Why? Not enough hospital beds for the serious cases. They are now making decisions of who gets treated and who doesn't. We are two weeks behind them...on the same curve.

It's that at the advanced ages, these percentages really look terrible. If my wife gets this she has an 8% chance of dying. More, because she has a generally weak immune system.

And the hidden danger is that the flu shows signs just after you get it. This virus shows no symptoms (for whatever reason) for between 4 and 14 days. So far more people are going to get this from innocent carriers than the flu.

In a few months, this will all be a memory. But for now? It's a real threat.

While I think you misplaced my sentiment, the general consensus among medical professionals is it presents as a mild flu for most people. If it tracks down into your lungs, you've got a problem. This happens more often in the elderly and the immuno-compromised.

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/ne...ms/5009057002/

Dr. Raphael Viscidi, infectious disease specialist at Johns Hopkins Medicine, urges to public to think of the coronavirus like the flu because it goes through the same process within the body. Many people contract the flu and recover with no complications.

That's the general sentiment to which I was referring that fuels people like your UPS guy. "If I get it, it's just a minor flu." But it's going to be much more for his dad or his brother with lung cancer.

[Kay King]

The most interesting graph I'm watching is on https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


The graph on the left tracks numbers....and the uptick is chilling.


The first 50,000 and 100,000 cases took about 3 weeks time to reach


150,000 took only 8 days - 200,000 will be 3-4 days


Not exponential growth but not good, either. At this rate infection will be 50k a day by next week....NO medical system of any country can handle that sort of infection rate efficiently.


That is the best organized site I've found as you can sort each columns and look at state by country, too. Clicking twice on header of 'number cases/million people' provides a totally different ranking system.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

We are still having people show up, but in very reduced numbers. The fact is, most of my work is done here. My wife is an artist and all her supplies are here. So even if we closed to the public, we'll probably still show up for several hours a day.




Hey! ...................HEY! I'm standing right here!

Agreed.. Old age does not really start till 65. They even say 70 is the new 65 now.

Said the 63 year old

[Kay King]

The older you get - the older 'old' gets...that's just how it works.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Kay King

The older you get - the older 'old' gets...that's just how it works.

It never gets old.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

The older you get - the older 'old' gets...that's just how it works.

I also see how much older "Young" is.

If someone tells me they were born in 1990, I think they are five years old.

I see 30 year old actors and think they look like kids.
It helps if they are short and Riffly.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

While I think you misplaced my sentiment, the general consensus among medical professionals is it presents as a mild flu for most people. If it tracks down into your lungs, you've got a problem. This happens more often in the elderly and the immuno-compromised.

Damn you for being rational. And double damn you for making me Thank your post. This means war.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

The problem is, even though that's true...killing 90% of the virus on your hands still makes it 100% transferable.

Agreed. You are one of the most rationale and logical people I know. Mean that in a good way.

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

<snip>
It's that at the advanced ages, these percentages really look terrible. If my wife gets this she has an 8% chance of dying. More, because she has a generally weak immune system.

The problem is, even though that's true...killing 90% of the virus on your hands still makes it 100% transferable.

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

We are still having people show up, but in very reduced numbers. The fact is, most of my work is done here. My wife is an artist and all her supplies are here. So even if we closed to the public, we'll probably still show up for several hours a day.
<snip>

"The problem is, even though that's true...killing 90% of the virus on your hands still makes it 100% transferable."


In my frame of logic, even with reduced numbers of people showing up at the store (say 90%) the remaining 10% may (God forbid) infect you and you may infect your wife.


You are a good man Claude and good men do right by their wives.

[myob]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Hey! ...................HEY! I'm standing right here!

Hey ............ I'm 67, but there are lots of "elderly" much younger than I am.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by myob

Hey ............ I'm 67, but there are lots of "elderly" much younger than I am.

You must be in an "Old Boys" Network

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

You are a good man Claude and good men do right by their wives.

Then let me set your mind at ease. My wife and I don't touch each other at all now. Not because we don't want to, but because of the possibility of contagion. We don't touch the same food or use the same silverware or glasses.


And we have agreed that if I start showing symptoms, I'll stay in the basement (a nicely furnished finished basement...not like Riffle's cobweb infested dungeon).

And....like I said....even if we close the store, I'll still go there to work.
And....believe me...my wife washes just about everything now with a disinfectant. it's 70% alcohol with Triethelyne glycol.

As long as she stays away from everyone, and stops her little shopping trips...something I actually raised my voice about....she should be OK.

And starting tomorrow, she said she's staying home until this subsides. I feel like hiding the car keys though......

And my store has two high end air purifiers going 24 hours a day. The place smells like bleach.

I'm very careful with the few customers we get now. And I wash my hands with the same soap surgeons use. It kills the virus...and plays holy hell with my skin. In fact. you can't buy that soap any more, because it's so toxic if taken internally, or if pets get any of it in their system. So I can't bring it home.

And...a few more days like today...I think we took in $100 or so...and we'll just shut it down for a few weeks, after I call all the people waiting for repairs to be done, or parts to pick up.

I'm not worried about getting the virus from a customer. I'm worried about my wife going to Lowe's "to get a few things"...or visiting her grandchildren.....

I do appreciate your thinking of us.

Added later; My wife and I just talked about it. We're closing the store for a month at least after Friday. We have shipments coming in, and I have to be there. I'll still work there, but the store will be closed.

[myob]

Originally Posted by lanfear63

You must be in an "Old Boys" Network

Actually with rare exceptions, I run in networks mostly comprised of 25-54 year old demographics. They are most likely old enough to know what they want, yet still young enough to do something about it.

[socialentry]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I'm very careful with the few customers we get now. And I wash my hands with the same soap surgeons use. It kills the virus...and plays holy hell with my skin.

Try moisturizing cream. I wash my hands a lot even before coronavirus. The cream helps a lot.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Then let me set your mind at ease. My wife and I don't touch each other at all now. Not because we don't want to, but because of the possibility of contagion. We don't touch the same food or use the same silverware or glasses.


And we have agreed that if I start showing symptoms, I'll stay in the basement (a nicely furnished finished basement...not like Riffle's cobweb infested dungeon).

And....like I said....even if we close the store, I'll still go there to work.
And....believe me...my wife washes just about everything now with a disinfectant. it's 70% alcohol with Triethelyne glycol.

As long as she stays away from everyone, and stops her little shopping trips...something I actually raised my voice about....she should be OK.

And starting tomorrow, she said she's staying home until this subsides. I feel like hiding the car keys though......

And my store has two high end air purifiers going 24 hours a day. The place smells like bleach.

I'm very careful with the few customers we get now. And I wash my hands with the same soap surgeons use. It kills the virus...and plays holy hell with my skin. In fact. you can't buy that soap any more, because it's so toxic if taken internally, or if pets get any of it in their system. So I can't bring it home.

And...a few more days like today...I think we took in $100 or so...and we'll just shut it down for a few weeks, after I call all the people waiting for repairs to be done, or parts to pick up.

I'm not worried about getting the virus from a customer. I'm worried about my wife going to Lowe's "to get a few things"...or visiting her grandchildren.....

I do appreciate your thinking of us.

Added later; My wife and I just talked about it. We're closing the store for a month at least after Friday. We have shipments coming in, and I have to be there. I'll still work there, but the store will be closed.

That's the trouble with you,.your so Conservative and never take things to the extreme

Until now

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

<snip>


Added later; My wife and I just talked about it. We're closing the store for a month at least after Friday. We have shipments coming in, and I have to be there. I'll still work there, but the store will be closed.

Oh great. Now we have to put up with you for at least another millennium. Should have kept my big mouth shut.


I applaud you sir!

[whateverpedia]

A bit of gallows humour never goes astray:



More here: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...gh-open-thread

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

While I think you misplaced my sentiment, the general consensus among medical professionals is it presents as a mild flu for most people. If it tracks down into your lungs, you've got a problem. This happens more often in the elderly and the immuno-compromised.

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/ne...ms/5009057002/

Dr. Raphael Viscidi, infectious disease specialist at Johns Hopkins Medicine, urges to public to think of the coronavirus like the flu because it goes through the same process within the body. Many people contract the flu and recover with no complications.

That's the general sentiment to which I was referring that fuels people like your UPS guy. "If I get it, it's just a minor flu." But it's going to be much more for his dad or his brother with lung cancer.

True, most will get a mild flu type thing, which will be different to a virus but similar.

Currently there are 30 cases in Vic, AU, so most have one chance in 125,000 of catching it in my state, or a 0.0010% chance, out of up to 3,000,000.

Or l would have a better chance of wining a fairly large prize on a scratchy than getting this.

Obviously the elderly or people over 70, have much higher odd's of dying from this, and that is the concern.

My state is in a state of emergency, which means someone, can close down anything and also fine people 20k, if they break containment.

Which is excessive, but l guess in my state it isn't!

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Then let me set your mind at ease. My wife and I don't touch each other at all now. Not because we don't want to, but because of the possibility of contagion. We don't touch the same food or use the same silverware or glasses.

And we have agreed that if I start showing symptoms, I'll stay in the basement (a nicely furnished finished basement...not like Riffle's cobweb infested dungeon).

And....like I said....even if we close the store, I'll still go there to work.
And....believe me...my wife washes just about everything now with a disinfectant. it's 70% alcohol with Triethelyne glycol.

As long as she stays away from everyone, and stops her little shopping trips...something I actually raised my voice about....she should be OK.

And starting tomorrow, she said she's staying home until this subsides. I feel like hiding the car keys though......

And my store has two high end air purifiers going 24 hours a day. The place smells like bleach.

I'm very careful with the few customers we get now. And I wash my hands with the same soap surgeons use. It kills the virus...and plays holy hell with my skin. In fact. you can't buy that soap any more, because it's so toxic if taken internally, or if pets get any of it in their system. So I can't bring it home.

And...a few more days like today...I think we took in $100 or so...and we'll just shut it down for a few weeks, after I call all the people waiting for repairs to be done, or parts to pick up.

I'm not worried about getting the virus from a customer. I'm worried about my wife going to Lowe's "to get a few things"...or visiting her grandchildren.....

I do appreciate your thinking of us.

Added later; My wife and I just talked about it. We're closing the store for a month at least after Friday. We have shipments coming in, and I have to be there. I'll still work there, but the store will be closed.

The trouble is this will go on for 3 to six months, so Victorians should self isolate or live at home for three months, and order food online, (which we currently can't do)?

Suicide rates through depression will be much higher than catching this, so no nice idea, but in the real world, some will stay and home for a good part of a month, and go out.

I have to go out at least once a week, to buy food, and have seen near empty restaurants and coffee shops, so as long as reasonable precautions are taken, (don't use anything that touches the table, etc) it is safe.

About the only thing that this 20k fine will do is, make some people avoid seeing a doctor, and stay at home for a week, then avoid the elderly, when they are feeling better.

The basement, lol, l thought that was where kids with Apple laptops and brilliant people with poor grammar hanged out?

[Odahh]

Shane

You are clueless as to why the world is shutting down to slow the spread of this .

It is not just elderly any serious respritory condition and or a compromised immune system.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Odahh

Shane

You are clueless as to why the world is shutting down to slow the spread of this .

It is not just elderly any serious respritory condition and or a compromised immune system.

I am not clueless, l just don't live in fear!

South Korea has seen a sharp decline in fatalities from C-19 by monetering and tracking infected individuals, which raises doubts about transmission and asymptomatic rates.

And the United Kingdom has taken the best approach by isolating the small percentage that have the highest risk factor.

And not closed its borders!

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/17/coro...e-borders.html

The courts and corporations haven't shut down or distanced themselves, in the UK, while the EU, that is pressuring the UK to follow are closing down all travel for a month.



And what happened when SARS hit the world?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe...atory_syndrome

Remarkably similar, to C-19, but back then we didn't close down everything apart from this step!

Fear of contracting the virus from consuming infected wild animals resulted in public bans and reduced business for meat markets in southern China and Hong Kong.

So in some instances now some experts and the media are extrapolating numbers based on a prediction.

Or causing unnecessary fear in the community.

Remember Korea,s rate is dropping due to careful monotering, and the UK, isn't doing much apart from protecting the elderly, etc, not closing down and laying off, which causes loss of income, high unemployment , depression and suicide.

And sure there are opportunities for day and swing traders, but for the hangers on, that need their money now or soon or the income from that, they are suffering.

I believe that AU, should follow the UK,s lead, and not close down everything and overreact!

[Odahh]

And the main reason with Korea had a big outbreak was because one person who was infected attended service at a magachurch with thousands of other people .two different days .

That hjere 60-70 percent of the cases came from in s Korea..but South Korea had data gathering in place to keep track of people's movements . That was put in place after a need outbreak in 2015.

So yes that is how they are fighting it .but many people voluntarily social isolated .

In the US 70 million people or more are over 60 .

In China the reason it hit elderly so hard is because the one child policy means that group was the biggest part of the population.

The doctor who warmed the world was in his 40s but the Chinese government could have shot him the blamed his death on the virus

[Kay King]

And sure there are opportunities for day and swing traders, but for the hangers on, that need their money now or soon or the income from that, they are suffering.

Every investor in my family is buying into the downturn - it's what investors do. People that might need their money should not be investing to begin with.

[DWolfe]

Originally Posted by Odahh

And the main reason with Korea had a big outbreak was because one person who was infected attended service at a magachurch with thousands of other people .two different days .

Saw a video the other day said the person was patient #31 in your quote. This weekend someone went to a Hospital in East Orange and gave a fake id. The person tested positive. When the Newark police found out about the fake id. They are now looking for this person. How many will this one person infect ?

Originally Posted by Kay King

Every investor in my family is buying into the downturn - it's what investors do. People that might need their money should not be investing to begin with.

Wonder why the person you quoted keeps bringing this subject up in their post other than ..... nah never mind

Went to pick up bird food yesterday from a local pet store. Got there and the building was locked with a big sign on it. Closed due to the c- virus. The reason is to keep foot traffic out of the store, because they want to protect their family.

The sign also read. A employee would be in the store taken care of things there The sign said to call a number or place your order through facebook.. They will put the order together after it is prepaid. No cash is allowed. Once the card is processed they gave you a time to pickup the supplies in front of the store. Once ready they opened the door laid the product on the ground at a safe distance. That was done you can pick it up. Great way to keep social distance and risk not your health on both ends.

[whateverpedia]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

I believe that AU, should follow the UK,s lead, and not close down everything and overreact!

Looks like someone's striving for a Darwin Award.