[myob]

There has always been a populist disregard for science in general. And now, we are facing unprecedented attacks on scientific institutions, irresponsible journalists, alarming disinformation campaigns with political agenda at national levels, coverups, and wavering gut-level leadership floundering in ignorance.

Except perhaps for those with some classical medical or scientific background, you're on your own now.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by myob

You're on your own now.

I told my 75 year young mother that lives in a 55 + community in
the Lakewood NJ hotspot... exactly that.

For me, that's the worst, not being able to help.

So far, everyone in my family who has gotten sick is now getting better.

I don't even have the vocabulary to describe how I feel or what I think
about those who have or are losing loved ones. Unfathomable.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Who's being stupid - me or them.

Them.

Large gatherings of people close together are like a petri dish. The odds of someone in a crowd of 200 being infected is better than 50%.

Myself? When I open my store at the beginning of next month, I'm still going to insist on distancing. We'll probably have several months of incredibly low sales, before most people come out to shop.

And it's going to be a year probably before I'll get on a plane, attend an event, or sit in a restaurant.

I really feel for the restaurant owners...high overhead, employees, and wasted food.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Them.

Large gatherings of people close together are like a petri dish. The odds of someone in a crowd of 200 being infected is better than 50%.

Myself? When I open my store at the beginning of next month, I'm still going to insist on distancing. We'll probably have several months of incredibly low sales, before most people come out to shop.

And it's going to be a year probably before I'll get on a plane, attend an event, or sit in a restaurant.

I really feel for the restaurant owners...high overhead, employees, and wasted food.

Put big fans circulating the air OUT of the store. Seriously.

IMHO The viral load and the fact that it aerosols means everything.

If you stand inside a room for hours at a time and people who may or may not have the virus come into that room and the virus just hangs there for you to keep breathing in. I dunno to me that sounds like a few strategically placed fans will be useful. at least have it point away from where you stand all day.

I won't count on some other person being responsible (like a mask or not feeling well - or worse a purposeful assjack).

I learned that lesson in kindergarten.

[myob]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

I told my 75 year young mother that lives in a 55 + community in
the Lakewood NJ hotspot... exactly that.

For me, that's the worst, not being able to help.

So far, everyone in my family who has gotten sick is now getting better.

I don't even have the vocabulary to describe how I feel or what I think
about those who have or are losing loved ones. Unfathomable.

I'm 67 and in very good health, and also have some close friends with this virus. I know that helpless feeling all too well. Fortunately, they do seem to be recovering.

My worst nightmare though, is not getting it myself, but unknowingly transmitting it to the elderly or others who may have compromised immune systems.

Right now, good hygiene and conscientious social distancing are the only defenses we have to buy more time until an effective vaccine becomes available.

I feel like stamping that on foreheads of those who don't get it.

[Medon]

The future looks bleak as the world economies tumble. If a cure or is not found fast, this generation will be doomed.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Put big fans circulating the air OUT of the store. Seriously.

IMHO The viral load and the fact that it aerosols means everything.

If you stand inside a room for hours at a time and people who may or may not have the virus come into that room and the virus just hangs there for you to keep breathing in. I dunno to me that sounds like a few strategically placed fans will be useful. at least have it point away from where you stand all day.

I won't count on some other person being responsible (like a mask or not feeling well - or worse a purposeful assjack).

I learned that lesson in kindergarten.

Pro aris et focis.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Put big fans circulating the air OUT of the store. Seriously.

IMHO The viral load and the fact that it aerosols means everything.

We have two air purifiers going 24 hours a day. Ozone, Ions, and ultraviolet light to kill most anything.

We did that before this virus for two reasons;
1) We sell air purifiers.
2) Vacuum cleaners come in for service. And other people's vacuum cleaner dirt is a bag of smelly evil organic soup. So we need to keep this out of our breathing air, and the smells out of our store.

And after each customer, I wash my hands, and will wipe off the counter with disinfectant.

We also use full spectrum lighting in our store. Very expensive, but it includes UV lighting.

So unless someone holds me down and kisses me, I think I'll be OK.

[Kay King]

I'm all for 'social distancing' - I have disliked the rather recent practice of hugging everyone all the time. I love a good hug from someone close to me - but not from strangers I just met...not from people using a hug as a 'hello' and a 'goodbye'. It's not a gender issue - in recent years men hug men as much as they hug women. I'm all for personal space so social distancing is a plus for me.

My son's uncle was taken off the ventilator yesterday and is leaving ICU today for a regular hospital room. He's been critical for well over a week - but looking good now.

So unless someone holds me down and kisses me, I think I'll be OK.

Does that happen often?

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

We have two air purifiers going 24 hours a day. Ozone, Ions, and ultraviolet light to kill most anything.

We did that before this virus for two reasons;
1) We sell air purifiers.
2) Vacuum cleaners come in for service. And other people's vacuum cleaner dirt is a bag of smelly evil organic soup. So we need to keep this out of our breathing air, and the smells out of our store.

And after each customer, I wash my hands, and will wipe off the counter with disinfectant.

We also use full spectrum lighting in our store. Very expensive, but it includes UV lighting.

So unless someone holds me down and kisses me, I think I'll be OK.

Yeah, you are going to be okay.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I'm all for 'social distancing' - I have disliked the rather recent practice of hugging everyone all the time. I love a good hug from someone close to me - but not from strangers I just met...not from people using a hug as a 'hello' and a 'goodbye'. It's not a gender issue - in recent years men hug men as much as they hug women. I'm all for personal space so social distancing is a plus for me.

My son's uncle was taken off the ventilator yesterday and is leaving ICU today for a regular hospital room. He's been critical for well over a week - but looking good now.





Does that happen often?

Only the holding down, never the kisses

[Dan Riffle]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

We have two air purifiers going 24 hours a day. Ozone, Ions, and ultraviolet light to kill most anything.

Isn't ozone bad for you? Do you only run ozone at night when you aren't there?

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Isn't ozone bad for you? Do you only run ozone at night when you aren't there?

Is it? Interesting.

I always get an instant migraine when i walk into a home that's running one of those.

Don't make me look stuff up Riffle, I want answers...
and I want them with zero effort on my part.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Isn't ozone bad for you? Do you only run ozone at night when you aren't there?

To be affected by ozone, you would have to breath in concentrations you probably wouldn't get with an air purifier.
Ozone itself isn't toxic. But in high concentrations can restrict your capillaries in your sinuses, giving you a headache.

There is Ozone outside all the time. Greater concentrations early in the morning and after thunderstorms.

A good Ozone type air purifier just replaces the levels of Ozone you find outside. Some people are highly sensitive to it, and get headaches....for the same reason they get headaches before a thunderstorm. If you can smell the Ozone, you have it set too high.

In some instances, like killing mold in a basement, or purifying a mattress....you turn the Ozone up on high for a few hours. But it's never enough to make you ill or be toxic.


An Ozone air purifier might generate 12 parts per billion of Ozone. Usually not enough to detect by smell.

As a side note, Hydrogen Perozide is just purified water infused with Ozone. Thousands of times more concentrated than what you get from an air purifier.

Ozone (even in minute concentrations) kills germs, bacteria, mold...and viruses, although it takes a long exposure to destroy a virus.

Also, in higher concentrations...eventually degrades elastic and rubber. It's why rubber bands found outside don't stretch without breaking.

Added later; Our store is 4,000 square feet, and the air purifiers have the Ozone set on its lowest setting. more than enough for what we need.

[Kay King]

Isn't Ozone what makes the air smell so good right after a thunderstorm?

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Isn't ozone bad for you? Do you only run ozone at night when you aren't there?

There's a reason he's out at night..but he won't reflect on it.

[Dan Riffle]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

To be affected by ozone, you would have to breath in concentrations you probably wouldn't get with an air purifier.

That's interesting. The purifiers I purchased practically beg you not use the ozone function unless you won't be home and to open windows upon returning home.

That's why I didn't even bother installing the ozone plates.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

That's interesting. The purifiers I purchased practically beg you not use the ozone function unless you won't be home and to open windows upon returning home.

That's why I didn't even bother installing the ozone plates.

You were reading the safety instructions for garden gnome usage. The instructions for 6ft 2" (wide) giants are different.

[CityCowboy]

Originally Posted by GordonJ

Speculation. Conjecture. Guessing.

Not much to go on to do much other than "wait and see", is there? Will it blow over and be gone by Spring? Just the beginning?

Will the China shutdown slow the world economy? What is at stake, if anything?

Do you have any sort of an opportunistic venture? We don't know, YET. But it is rapidly becoming top of mind trending...for now. It could trigger another "cycle", this one a downturn in the world economy, a lower stock market, higher unemployment, or is it more let's sweat that bridge when we get to it?

GordonJ

Economists predict there will be another global economic crisis just like that of 2008 or probably worse. We just have to wait and see.

[Kurt]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Yup. After that post, I heard (on the news) that some people are still testing positive long after they are better. And it was strongly assumed that they would have a built in immunity (like the first SARS virus)....but there may be some doubts now.

We should have more concrete information in a few months, after the results of much more testing come in.

Added later; But an immunity of just a year would eventually slow down the spread. Maybe enough to get life back to normal.

I'm a solutions orientated person...so here's what I would do.

First, I'm sick of hearing that health care people need n95 masks so the rest of us shouldn't have them. Yes they do need them and they should be an extreme priority. However, everyone else needs them too. I've done the math. There's a big difference when talking about exponential numbers between no protection and 95% protections. Get everyone some damn n95 masks and make us wear them in public for a little while.

Testing and tracking is essential. Make some damn tests like our lives depended on them, because they do.

Social distancing. Distance isn't just about height, length and width. Time is the 4th dimension. Have essential businesses open 24 hours and schedule people to pick up their goods according to some criteria like last number of their social security number. Goods should be delivered curb side whenver possible. Store employees shouldn't be at risk any more than they have to and there's no need to stock shelves. Just fill orders. By spreading out the time we all shop we are greatly increasing our social distancing and if we're not going to work the next morning we can set the alarm for 1 am and go back to bed after we pick up our food.

Put all possible goods outside. The sunlight and warmer weather may help and this will help social distancing too. We shop for as much as we can outdoors and only go inside for the frozen and refrigerated goods, at least during the spring and summer months.

Make some damn disposable gloves and place then in areas of need like going in to stores and at gas pumps.

Have wash stations inside and/or outside of stores.

Educate people how to put on and remove gloves and masks properly.


Make some damn spray bottles of hydrogen peroxide. Hydrogen peroxide has been proven to be very effective at killing COVID. It's H2O2, which is water with an extra oxygen molecule so when it breaks down it becomes water and oxygen, harmless to the environment. Turn everyone into a disinfecting army spraying things like door knobs and gas pump handles in public places. I carry a small spray bottle with me and spray things before and after I use them. It isn't a big deal.

Create a "shoe wash" outside of every store. I've read that the bottom of our shoes could be a means of transmission. Give people the option of standing in a little bleach water (just enough to cover the soles) for a minute when entering and leaving a store...or spray have someone spray them with H2O2 using something like a garden sprayer.

• n95 masks were about $1 each retail, when they were available. I'm sure the manufacturing costs are a lot less.
• Disposable gloves are cheap.
• Hydrogen peroxide is cheap. You just need a dark bottle because light breaks it down.

For a couple of billion dollars we could supply every American with these things (other than the tests). The problem is, we need to actually make them. Or...we can keep spending trillions and losing lives. And when I say "make", I mean make stuff like we did during WWII and the Marshall Plan as if our lives and livelyhood and freedom depend on it, because they do.

Watch this video to see how to take off gloves and masks the correct way:
https://www.facebook.com/LeonBriePer...7610336083171/

[Kurt]

[whateverpedia]

The best analogy I've seen for those who insist on lifting restrictions:

The parachute has slowed our rate of descent, we can take it off now.

[highhopes]

Could experimenation projects like " project 112", 2 Operation large area coverage", " Project 112" have anything to do with the likes of what is haapening in the world today I wonder???

That was just the beginning of Geo-engineering back in the 1950`s!
I read a motion started in the UK Houses of Parliment a 95 page document in 2010 to actually confirm the need to studythe effects on the environment the safety of so called weather control??

The list is endless what they are testing bioweapons early experiment
"Operation Sea Spray"when about 1951 serratia marcescens sprayed over san francisco and its aim was to determine the susceptibility of a big city like San Francisco to a bioweapon attack by terrorists.

In the following days, the military took samples at 43 sites to track the bacteria's spread, and found that it had quickly infested not only the city but surrounding suburbs as well. During the test, residents of these areas would have inhaled millions of bacterial spores.

all the major Countries are involved in this now I think.
god help us all!!!

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Isn't ozone bad for you? Do you only run ozone at night when you aren't there?

At the store? We let it run 24 hours a day, every day...on low.

Originally Posted by Kay King

Isn't Ozone what makes the air smell so good right after a thunderstorm?

Yes. And the lightning creates a strong ionic charge that clears dust from the air. Of course the rain cleans the air as well. Ozone in the air is also what gives laundry hung outside that fresh smell.

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

That's interesting. The purifiers I purchased practically beg you not use the ozone function unless you won't be home and to open windows upon returning home.

That's why I didn't even bother installing the ozone plates.

Here's why. Some people aren't properly instructed on how to use these settings. And I know that some buyers set the Ozone settings on high, thinking "More is better".

But with Ozone, more isn't better, unless you are clearing out mold, or sanitizing a mattress.

For example, at home we have one air purifier set atop our entertainment center. About once a week, we set the Ozone on low for a few hours, and that's it. Why? Because the only reason we have it on at home is to help kill odors...you know..."Old people smell". I'm not joking. And we have cats, and it's also to kill the cat litter smell.

And once a week, we open the windows partially to get in fresh air.

Think of Ozone like aspirin. Two aspirin kills a headache, a whole bottle taken at once kills you. Moderation.

At home, I'd use one Ozone plate in one of your air purifiers on Low setting for a few hours, just to see if everyone likes the smell. But you almost certainly don't need it on all the time.

Customers with large homes, I may recommend having the Ozone set on low and have the purifier facing the return air vent. That way the Ozone circulates through the vents first, killing bacteria in the vents, and then it mixes throughout the home.

But never just set it on High and leave it there all day. Eventually it will start to degrade the elastic in your underwear, even if it's in your drawer. And it's hundreds of times more than you need to get any benefit.

By the way, the reason some people think of Ozone as bad, is because air pollution used to be measured by measuring the level of Ozone in the air. But Ozone isn't the pollutant, it's what the atmosphere uses to kill the pollutants. But it's easy to measure, so they use that as a measurement.

Bu nobody has ever died, or even gone to the hospital...from too much Ozone. Air purifiers that produce Ozone just don't produce enough to really hurt us.

[Dan Riffle]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Here's why. Some people aren't properly instructed on how to use these settings. And I know that some buyers set the Ozone settings on high, thinking "More is better".

But with Ozone, more isn't better, unless you are clearing out mold, or sanitizing a mattress.

For example, at home we have one air purifier set atop our entertainment center. About once a week, we set the Ozone on low for a few hours, and that's it. Why? Because the only reason we have it on at home is to help kill odors...you know..."Old people smell". I'm not joking. And we have cats, and it's also to kill the cat litter smell.

And once a week, we open the windows partially to get in fresh air.

Think of Ozone like aspirin. Two aspirin kills a headache, a whole bottle taken at once kills you. Moderation.

At home, I'd use one Ozone plate in one of your air purifiers on Low setting for a few hours, just to see if everyone likes the smell. But you almost certainly don't need it on all the time.

Customers with large homes, I may recommend having the Ozone set on low and have the purifier facing the return air vent. That way the Ozone circulates through the vents first, killing bacteria in the vents, and then it mixes throughout the home.

But never just set it on High and leave it there all day. Eventually it will start to degrade the elastic in your underwear, even if it's in your drawer. And it's hundreds of times more than you need to get any benefit.

By the way, the reason some people think of Ozone as bad, is because air pollution used to be measured by measuring the level of Ozone in the air. But Ozone isn't the pollutant, it's what the atmosphere uses to kill the pollutants. But it's easy to measure, so they use that as a measurement.

Bu nobody has ever died, or even gone to the hospital...from too much Ozone. Air purifiers that produce Ozone just don't produce enough to really hurt us.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but the EPA seems to disagree with you. According to them, too much Ozone can hurt you and operating an Ozone generator at concentrations that don't exceed public health standards is generally ineffective in controlling indoor air pollution.

Here's the EPA's viewpoint: https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quali...rs#conclusions

Added later: Also, if you believe the EPA, Ozone can cause the same symptoms as COVID-19 (minus the fever) and can irritate the respiratory system, something you probably don't want to do right now. Just something to think about.

[Kay King]

if you believe the EPA,

Sadly, these days, there's the 'rub'. The ozone argument has been going on for at least 15 years.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Sadly, these days, there's the 'rub'. The ozone argument has been going on for at least 15 years.

I think there's a hole in the ozone argument

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Sadly, these days, there's the 'rub'. The ozone argument has been going on for at least 15 years.

Originally Posted by lanfear63

I think there's a hole in the ozone argument

I'm no expert, but when I went to the Amazon rainforest and looked up at the sky.. I didn't see a hole in the sky.


Me thinks the guy that started all this, Graham Hancock, doing his research in the Amazon rainforest, drinking the powerful plant hallucinogen Ayahuasca with Indian shamans.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

I'm no expert, but when I went to the Amazon rainforest and looked up at the sky.. I didn't see a hole in the sky.


Me thinks the guy that started all this, Graham Hancock, doing his research in the Amazon rainforest, drinking the powerful plant hallucinogen Ayahuasca with Indian shamans.

I think it was over one of the Poles, it followed him everywhere

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by CityCowboy

Economists predict there will be another global economic crisis just like that of 2008 or probably worse. We just have to wait and see.

stock market when down 30 percent from the high.. and rebounded about half of what was lost ..

oil use around the world is down 30 percent of what it was this time last year so it is easy to start with the expectation the 30 percent of the worl economy is on hold right now and about half of that may come back online withing a few months of things reopening .

much of what doesn't come right back in a few month won't come back and will be replaced in the next few years

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but the EPA seems to disagree with you. According to them, too much Ozone can hurt you and operating an Ozone generator at concentrations that don't exceed public health standards is generally ineffective in controlling indoor air pollution.

Here's the EPA's viewpoint: https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quali...rs#conclusions

Added later: Also, if you believe the EPA, Ozone can cause the same symptoms as COVID-19 (minus the fever) and can irritate the respiratory system, something you probably don't want to do right now. Just something to think about.

Dan; They are talking about Ozone as a byproduct of several different kinds of machines...like copiers leaking Ozone.. Or large Ozone producing machines used industrially to clean the air after fires or floods. The amount leaked can be thousands of times more concentrated than you get from one plate in an air purifier.

And...the property of Ozone is that it breaks down organic molecules. In high concentrations, if you get lots of it in your lungs, it can irritate your lungs.

Think of Hydrogen Peroxide. Purified water infused with Ozone.

A 2 or 3% solution cleans cuts, disinfectants surfaces. And a 2% concentration is hundreds of times more than an Ozone generating air purifier will put out.

But a 50% concentration of Hydrogen Peroxide will kill nerves on the skin, and eat through flesh. In fact, forensic pathologists use a 100% solution of Hydrogen Peroxide to strip meat from bones...and it also bleaches bones.

You can buy Ozone producing machines that will put out hundreds of times more Ozone than your air purifier. Contractors use them to kill the smell after a fire, or to get rid of smoking odors in used cars. But they are only on for a short time.

But the Ozone leaking from faulty machines? In such concentrations, that can be a problem if you breath it in long enough, I suppose. You work in an office. I know that at one time or another you have smelled Ozone because one of the office machines has faulty wiring.

And...Ozone breaks chemical bonds, so ammonia (for instance) becomes water and a few other gasses...all non-toxic.

But it's possible to break down a chemical that releases a simpler molecule that can be toxic, like chlorine.

And...ozone doesn't clean the air, Ionization does. Ozone just kills the organic pests like germs, bacteria, and mold. To breath in enough Ozone to damage your lungs, you would have to use a high powered industrial Ozone generator, and sit in a plastic bag with it for hours.

Google "Ozone deaths". Nobody has ever died from exposure to Ozone, not even workers that use the super powerful Ozone generators in industry.

Everything will kill you in high enough concentrations.

[myob]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Everything will kill you in high enough concentrations.

Woman dies from drinking too much water

[Kay King]

I have two questions about the pandemic at hand:


Experts said this weekend that 3 ply or surgical masks protect from only 10% or less of pathogens in the air. If that is true why the big push to 'wear masks'? Is it a feel good thing?


Has been reorted that Facebook is shutting down any accts that support protests over the state closures - if the state requests a shutdown. So far, that includes california, new jersey and nebraska. FB as an arm of the government? Interesting.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I have two questions about the pandemic at hand:


Experts said this weekend that 3 ply or surgical masks protect from only 10% or less of pathogens in the air. If that is true why the big push to 'wear masks'? Is it a feel good thing?


Has been reorted that Facebook is shutting down any accts that support protests over the state closures - if the state requests a shutdown. So far, that includes california, new jersey and nebraska. FB as an arm of the government? Interesting.

It's so that you don't spread it if you have it.

Also...it appears as if SOME viral load removed from entering your lungs is better
then nothing being removed. The some getting stuck to whatever cloth barrier.

That's why multi-layering is mentioned so much. More layers... more removal, maybe.

[myob]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Experts said this weekend that 3 ply or surgical masks protect from only 10% or less of pathogens in the air. If that is true why the big push to 'wear masks'? Is it a feel good thing?

Masks (other than N95) offer little if any protection from air-borne corona-19 virus, although it does help reduce the risk of spreading by those who may be asymtomatic. The far larger risk is through direct contact of contaminated surfaces. The virus can survive for hours or sometimes even days.

Originally Posted by Kay King

Has been reorted that Facebook is shutting down any accts that support protests over the state closures - if the state requests a shutdown. So far, that includes california, new jersey and nebraska. FB as an arm of the government? Interesting.

The risk of spreading virus through close association is extremely high; which is perhaps the most efficient infection virus in a 100 years. Tragically, death and suffering will continue to be carried on by people not understanding the real danger.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Think of Hydrogen Peroxide. Purified water infused with Ozone.

A 2 or 3% solution cleans cuts, disinfectants surfaces. And a 2% concentration is hundreds of times more than an Ozone generating air purifier will put out.

But a 50% concentration of Hydrogen Peroxide will kill nerves on the skin, and eat through flesh. In fact, forensic pathologists use a 100% solution of Hydrogen Peroxide to strip meat from bones...and it also bleaches bones.

I didn't know that about hydrogen peroxide
Thanks for teaching me how to get rid of the body.

[Frank Donovan]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

It's so that you don't spread it if you have it.

Exactly. It's noticeable that many "experts" have moved their position re masks over recent weeks from being totally useless to maybe they do some good. They've been catching up with what most people felt in the first place was just common sense.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I have two questions about the pandemic at hand:


Experts said this weekend that 3 ply or surgical masks protect from only 10% or less of pathogens in the air. If that is true why the big push to 'wear masks'? Is it a feel good thing?

That's technically true. The virus is smaller than the pores in the mask. But the virus tends to stick to the sides of the pores, and layers multiply that effect. Also, most of the virus is locked in to small water droplets ...even when you just exhale. And the masks stop these droplets.

So....yes, under exact conditions, the virus can pass through one of these masks. But even a handkerchief will stop nearly all the water droplets. So anything helps.

Originally Posted by Kay King

Has been reorted that Facebook is shutting down any accts that support protests over the state closures - if the state requests a shutdown. So far, that includes california, new jersey and nebraska. FB as an arm of the government? Interesting.

Facebook cannot win. If they edit the content at all, they are stepping on our freedom of speech. If they don't edit their content, they are letting the terrorists win.

I guess it's a matter of who yells the loudest.

That's a guess. I have no real knowledge on the matter.

Something to ponder. If the virus is truly airborne, a mask won't completely protect you, because of the way masks work. When you inhale, there is resistance, pulling air through the mask, so the air will tend to travel around the mask, and through any place the mask isn't sealed, like around the bridge of the nose.

But...one good thing about viruses is that they don't live on their own, they attach to, and invade, other cells. And these cells are sticky, and have a little weight. So the virus doesn't stay airborne for long. And they stick to the material in masks.

My wife and I use cloth masks (made really well locally) They are three layers of cloth, with a HEPA filter material we insert between the layers. After a shopping trip, we throw away the filter and wash the masks.

If you would have told me 2 months ago, that we would be wearing masks, and planning shopping trips like we're in a war zone........

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

That's technically true. The virus is smaller than the pores in the mask. But the virus tends to stick to the sides of the pores, and layers multiply that effect. Also, most of the virus is locked in to small water droplets ...even when you just exhale. And the masks stop these droplets.

So....yes, under exact conditions, the virus can pass through one of these masks. But even a handkerchief will stop nearly all the water droplets. So anything helps.



Facebook cannot win. If they edit the content at all, they are stepping on our freedom of speech. If they don't edit their content, they are letting the terrorists win.

I guess it's a matter of who yells the loudest.

That's a guess. I have no real knowledge on the matter.

Something to ponder. If the virus is truly airborne, a mask won't completely protect you, because of the way masks work. When you inhale, there is resistance, pulling air through the mask, so the air will tend to travel around the mask, and through any place the mask isn't sealed, like around the bridge of the nose.

But...one good thing about viruses is that they don't live on their own, they attach to, and invade, other cells. And these cells are sticky, and have a little weight. So the virus doesn't stay airborne for long. And they stick to the material in masks.

My wife and I use cloth masks (made really well locally) They are three layers of cloth, with a HEPA filter material we insert between the layers. After a shopping trip, we throw away the filter and wash the masks.

If you would have told me 2 months ago, that we would be wearing masks, and planning shopping trips like we're in a war zone........

Are you covering your eyes? If I understand what things mean - I think
the eyes are very vulnerable...because of sticky build up.

I have eye protection for shooting that looks almost like regular glasses.

My kid wants to wear his paint ball gear....lol. My response to that was...Sure - go ahead.... but your still not going out of the yard unless the house is on fire.

[Dan Riffle]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Dan; They are talking about Ozone as a byproduct of several different kinds of machines...like copiers leaking Ozone.. Or large Ozone producing machines used industrially to clean the air after fires or floods. The amount leaked can be thousands of times more concentrated than you get from one plate in an air purifier.

And...the property of Ozone is that it breaks down organic molecules. In high concentrations, if you get lots of it in your lungs, it can irritate your lungs.

Think of Hydrogen Peroxide. Purified water infused with Ozone.

A 2 or 3% solution cleans cuts, disinfectants surfaces. And a 2% concentration is hundreds of times more than an Ozone generating air purifier will put out.

But a 50% concentration of Hydrogen Peroxide will kill nerves on the skin, and eat through flesh. In fact, forensic pathologists use a 100% solution of Hydrogen Peroxide to strip meat from bones...and it also bleaches bones.

You can buy Ozone producing machines that will put out hundreds of times more Ozone than your air purifier. Contractors use them to kill the smell after a fire, or to get rid of smoking odors in used cars. But they are only on for a short time.

But the Ozone leaking from faulty machines? In such concentrations, that can be a problem if you breath it in long enough, I suppose. You work in an office. I know that at one time or another you have smelled Ozone because one of the office machines has faulty wiring.

And...Ozone breaks chemical bonds, so ammonia (for instance) becomes water and a few other gasses...all non-toxic.

But it's possible to break down a chemical that releases a simpler molecule that can be toxic, like chlorine.

And...ozone doesn't clean the air, Ionization does. Ozone just kills the organic pests like germs, bacteria, and mold. To breath in enough Ozone to damage your lungs, you would have to use a high powered industrial Ozone generator, and sit in a plastic bag with it for hours.

Google "Ozone deaths". Nobody has ever died from exposure to Ozone, not even workers that use the super powerful Ozone generators in industry.

Everything will kill you in high enough concentrations.

Did you got to the link I posted? It's specifically in reference to air purifiers that create ozone.

I originally linked you to the conclusions section. Here's a link to the top of the page:
https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quali...s#ozone-health

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Did you got to the link I posted? It's specifically in reference to air purifiers that create ozone.

I originally linked you to the conclusions section. Here's a link to the top of the page:
https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quali...s#ozone-health

Read it. It said

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) requires ozone output of indoor medical devices to be no more than 0.05 ppm.

The Ozone plates (one) puts out a maximum of .02 ppm.

There are stronger machines out there, but I don't sell them.

Everything the article said is true and completely agrees with everything I said before.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Are you covering your eyes? If I understand what things mean - I think
the eyes are very vulnerable...because of sticky build up.

No eye protection. And yes, I think I'd be more likely to get the virus through my eyes than through a mask.

But....I'm not going to wear sealed eye ware. My main defense is being non sociable enough that nobody wants to get withing 6 feet of me.

The only time I wear a full face mask, covering everything..is when I'm with my favorite prostitute, Matilda. She insists I wear a mask...she always has.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

No eye protection. And yes, I think I'd be more likely to get the virus through my eyes than through a mask.

But....I'm not going to wear sealed eye ware. My main defense is being non sociable enough that nobody wants to get withing 6 feet of me.

The only time I wear a full face mask, covering everything..is when I'm with my favorite prostitute, Matilda. She insists I wear a mask...she always has.

That's 12.2 feet then, Working out from your head

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by lanfear63

That's 12.2 feet then, Working out from your ego

There, I fixed it.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

There, I fixed it.

Working on that then, only Alien Races in a distant Galaxy are safe.

[lanfear63]

Georgia Governor to open some really stupid places from the 24th April. what an A-hole. Beggers disbelief.

Gym's, Massage Parlors, Tattoo places, Bowling Alleys, Hairdressers and Nail Salons. And as from Monday, Movie Theaters and Restaurants.Totally Contactless of course.

Must be fake news surely.

Welcome to the second wave folks.The first ones not finished yet.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/20/polit...rus/index.html

Georgia
Confirmed
18,391
Recovered
-
Deaths
687
Population 10.62 million, or it was

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

<snip>
But....I'm not going to wear sealed eye ware. My main defense is being non sociable enough that nobody wants to get withing 6 feet of me.
<snip>

Yep, you'll be okay.

[whateverpedia]

Poetic justice?

John McDaniel railed on social media against Ohio's Gov. Mike DeWine's lockdown order . Weeks later he contracted the virus. A few days ago he died.

https://crooksandliars.com/2020/04/m...lockdown-order

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

No eye protection. And yes, I think I'd be more likely to get the virus through my eyes than through a mask.

But....I'm not going to wear sealed eye ware. My main defense is being non sociable enough that nobody wants to get withing 6 feet of me.

The only time I wear a full face mask, covering everything..is when I'm with my favorite prostitute, Matilda. She insists I wear a mask...she always has.

Sealed eyewear is a good idea. Amazon has the type that also fits over eyeglasses and are fog proof. Price range, $10.00 to $15.00 up to $60.00. The more expensive ones are usually sold-out.

[Kay King]

Got any dive goggles? We have a bunch of good quality snorkel stuff...wouldn't that be cute?