[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

This goes against any feeling of empathy...but there really is a number.

When the speed limit on highways was reduced to 55 or 60 miles per hour, the death rate from accidents went down. If they lowered the speed limit to 30 miles an hour...it would almost disappear.

But the country wouldn't stand for a 30 mile an hour highway speed limit...even though it saved lives. And a 90 mile an hour limit costs too much in lives....so it's usually 60 mph. A compromise.

A month ago, most of the country shut down. Unemployment skyrocketed, and many businesses are in fear of going out of business. Maybe most small businesses.

And so, this month, many states are opening back up...with varying degrees of restrictions. And the pandemic will resume growing.

But at some point (probably within the next month) we will, as a country, find an acceptable level of deaths, to keep the economy moving....at least limping.

One thought is that the majority of cases, and deaths, are coming from just a few sources....nursing homes, prisons, and factories where the employees are very close together on a line....and of course, the doctors and nurses that take care of the elderly and the sick.

For some reason, meat processing plants aren't all shutting down. And prisoners aren't all separated (the tested positives from the negatives). Some states are taking action, some are not.

Sweden has a solution. No isolation except for the elderly. Their death rate is 3 times the surrounding countries....but to them acceptable.

I suspect that in a month or two, a new normal will emerge. Maybe wearing masks and social distancing, but most businesses re-opening, except where huge crowds gather, like churches, sporting events, large conventions.

I posted on Facebook that the US has only 5% of the world's population but almost exactly 33% of the cases. Someone said that China is under reporting their cases....so I did the math. And I said that if you tripled the reported cases from China, we still would be about 30% of the world's cases.

That irritated this fellow. Numbers and math can anger people who have a different world view I suppose.

I just know I'm not going to an event until a vaccine is available, or sit down in a restaurant. In my store, I'll wear a mask. And keep away from the customers...assuming they come back.

"That irritated this fellow. Numbers and math can anger people who have a different world view I suppose."

Curious, you've never done that before?

[Jeffery]

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by lanfear63

"That irritated this fellow. Numbers and math can anger people who have a different world view I suppose."

Curious, you've never done that before?

Only a few times. Mostly people with political views opposite mine. But in general conversation? No.
The great thing about actual facts is that if you are wrong, you can simply look it up from a credible source...and change your mind. There is no arguing.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Only a few times. Mostly people with political views opposite mine. But in general conversation? No.
The great thing about actual facts is that if you are wrong, you can simply look it up from a credible source...and change your mind. There is no arguing.

First we have to agree on what are facts..and well this is America
so we know that's never going to happen.

I have many friends on the opposite political side of me, a few of them I can actually talk politics with. Two of them and I have watched most of the covid task force briefings and whenever we talk about what we just heard ... we agree on what the words said were, but we never agree on what they mean.

We don't even agree on facial ticks, mannerism, basically nothing.

...and I guess that that's provably how it is everywhere.

[ivan84m]

Hi Gordon,

Yes. I think we can only "wait and see" what happens.

Here in Mexico, the government has extended the quarantine twice.

People who drop ship from China may be having trouble with their business.

I've seen ads from people offering internet marketing courses as the solution to the financial crisis caused by the coronavirus pandemic.

[Kay King]

I've seen ads from people offering internet marketing courses as the solution to the financial crisis caused by the coronavirus pandemic.

...and I expect some will buy. People always want to believe someone can provide 'the answer' for a price..

I'm interested right now in the 'contrarian' media coverage....in March in the USA when states began shutting down the talk was 'how can they do that - that won't work - what will people do'.

Now many states are beginning to open up and those same talking heads are saying 'how can they do that - that won't work - what will people do'. One size fits all answer, i guess.

What so many don't seem to understand is - opening up doesn't mean it's over or 'we got it licked' - it means the state thinks they have the ability NOW to address cases as they come - they have the supplies necessary and know how to limit the spread of the virus to some extent at least. They see the problem as becoming 'manageable'.

Covid-19 is something we will learn to live with and long before we are all vaccinated there will be drugs that reduce the death rate by limiting the scope/seriousness of the disease.

If you've been thinking of improving your diet, your lifestyle, upping your exercise or lowering your weight....now would be a really good time to get serious about it.

[Importexport]

The confinement at home also presents a great opportunity to prepare for the time when the lockdown is lifted.



That could be simply learning a new skill, or it could be mapping out your strategy for your new business and having it ready to go as soon as the world awakens from its slumber.


Walter Hay
Importexport

[Princess Balestra]

Originally Posted by Kay King

If you've been thinking of improving your diet, your lifestyle, upping your exercise or lowering your weight....now would be a really good time to get serious about it.

Meantimes, gotta figure how cool stuff happens to those who prepare for potential opportoonities.


Which is why ima pluckin' all available areahs despite nowan actshwlly here rn.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Princess Balestra

Meantimes, gotta figure how cool stuff happens to those who prepare for potential opportoonities.


Which is why ima pluckin' all available areahs despite nowan actshwlly here rn.

What? Princess is alone? I'm sure that is not a problem,

[Princess Balestra]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

What? Princess is alone? I'm sure that is not a problem,

Tellya, I am stridin' out into a phantom wasteland of imaginary bunnies here.

Which is kinda ok, bcs summa 'em figure I ain't here either.

Hey, but I OK chillin' out on my lonesum.

Like most evrywan, I brushin' up on noo skills an' enhancin' old talents.

Which kinda means ... as Madame Incinerate Evry Kinda Dinnah ... ima gowin' through the recipe books an' brushin' up on the basics with a view to ensurin' fyooture stroganoffs don't come bundled with an apartment fulla noxious vapors.

So I lookin' in on SALAD.

Bcs ... zero combustibles.

An' I jus' chopped a lettuce real swanky an' peeled the skin offa a cucumber without losin' any fingers.

*WINNAH*

[myob]

Originally Posted by Importexport

The confinement at home also presents a great opportunity to prepare for the time when the lockdown is lifted.

Worst advice eva!

While othas are just preppin', it's the best time to be reppin'.

Massive marketing now will position you far ahead when the lockdown is lifted.

[TelZilla]

Originally Posted by myob

Massive marketing now will position you far ahead when the lockdown is lifted.

Amen. This is honestly good sound advice.

Especially if your business is B2B.

[Medon]

[QUOTE=derekwong28;11583230]This just in, the WHO has just declared coronavirus as a pandemic

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51839944

"WHO chief Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said the number of cases outside China had increased 13-fold over the past two weeks.

He said he was "deeply concerned" by "alarming levels of inaction" over the virus."

In the meantime, China declares victory over coronavirus

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/10/a...hnk/index.html

"As the coronavirus spreads around the world, China has been increasingly vocal about what it appears to feel is a lack of appreciation from the global community for its efforts to contain the outbreak, and preventing the crisis from being even worse than it may turn out to be."

It is sending help to Italy and other countries.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...lp-italy-fight[/QUOTE

I have said again and again that China's trouble was not sharing information when the world needed it. You dont wait for a man to starve to death before you give him a ton of food. If they had been open we would not be where we are. They should be held responsible.

[George Flm]

Remote Working will be the modus vivendi for the new breed of a workforce that will emerge.

Interviews will take place remotely and so on and so forth.

Chinese should change their eating habits right off the bat

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by George Flm

Remote Working will be the modus vivendi for the new breed of a workforce that will emerge.

Interviews will take place remotely and so on and so forth.

Chinese should change their eating habits right off the bat

So should we.

...And I don't thinks it's the eating habit. It's the storage and execution.
You cant house live stock in a butcher area with the consumables.

[myob]

Originally Posted by George Flm

Remote Working will be the modus vivendi for the new breed of a workforce that will emerge.

Interviews will take place remotely and so on and so forth.

We are already seeing a whole new economy being transformed on an historic scale, accelerated by the covid19 crisis which some may term revolutionary, emerging like a bat out of hell. Technologies such as remote health monitoring, autonomous disinfection, virtual doctor visits, chatbots, AI, VR, online patient engagement tools, remote diagnostic solutions, medical-diagnosing mobile phone apps, drones to deliver medical supplies, hospital robots, etc are rapidly becoming mainstream and going viral across other major industries.

Originally Posted by George Flm

Chinese should change their eating habits right off the bat

Evidence suggests the Chinese wet market was not the original source of the virus outbreak. It is becoming more probable the story is misinformation carefully disseminated by the CCP propaganda machine to coverup an accidental release from a research lab studying the coronavirus in bats. A previous coronavirus outbreak in 2003, SARS-CoV originated in China as well.

The CCP silenced whistleblowers, kicked out journalists reporting on it, destroyed research papers, has never allowed any lab investigation, and prohibited Wuhan residents from traveling within China but allowed them to flee to other major cities worldwide before anyone knew about it.

[Kay King]

I think some of the 'china stuff' in the media is misdireciton. It's important but can wait till later - till we have definitive proof and a way forward. For now, it takes the spotlight off some of the protesting and problems in various states.


I saw a pandemic side effect yesterday - and it was sad. An 11 yr old boy afraid to uncover his face - at all. His father brought he and his 13 yr old brother for a horseback trail ride because (he said) the younger boy had become so afraid they had to MAKE him remove his mask at home.



The father repeatedly told the boys they did not need masks out in the open air of the trails and the older son took his mask off.That younger child rode for an hour in the woods - 30 ft from any other person - and did not remove his mask or his 'goggle type' sunglasses at any time. I think child psychologists are going to be in demand in the next few years.

[1Bryan]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I think some of the 'china stuff' in the media is misdireciton.

I think I get where you are coming from. But it's not misdirection. The onus is on the country that first encounters the outbreak to contain it. Once they allowed it outside their borders, it became a threat. Because of how fast it transmits. And they knew that.

We put the onus on African nations. With less wealth than China. When ebola breaks out, it's on Africa to contain it. So why not China? Because we can buy lingerie for $ 3 off of Alibaba? haha.

We're addicted to china money but won't admit it. Almost all drop shipping was based on China $$$/

[Jeffery]

Kay, how was your horseback thingy? Sincerely hope you has a good time.

[maclennan]

I've just come across this post,and it's amazing how back in February,just two months ago,we weren't very worried about Corona virus, don't think at that stage it was classed as a pandemic. However! Since then Europe has lost thousands of lives,here in United Kingdom,we are over the peak hopefully,but still on lockdown, probably another three weeks before restrictions are slowly lifted,and judging by the news reports, America is really struggling with this terrible times. Who would have thought that two short months ago,this virus would have brought the world to it's knees. Also there is the conspiracy merchants who have a take on how this virus originated, but I will not go down that road, but eventually it will come out,what is to blame, but I think it will certainly damage China's creditability in world trade.
That's my take on this terrible times.

[Kay King]

You are right - I think peole forget how RECENT this pandemic is and how quickly it swept around the world.


Jeffery - had a wonderful day, thank you. Mid-70's and sunny with a good breeze. Great day for a ride and I did my share of it!

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by George Flm

Remote Working will be the modus vivendi for the new breed of a workforce that will emerge.

Interviews will take place remotely and so on and so forth.

Chinese should change their eating habits right off the bat

Right Off the Bat... Good one

[derekwong28]

The current thinking about why the epidemic got so bad in the US and Europe is that there was already community spread of the virus in January or even December, well before Wuhan was quarantined. Therefore, it was highly unlikely that this pandemic could have been prevented. The reason why this early community spread was not detected was that either testing was not available, or that cases of community acquired pneumonia were not tested. The gravest mistake in the US was that it took weeks before a valid test was available because the CDC had developed a defective test. That was probably the single reason why the outbreak got so bad in the US.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52526554

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/u...tes-death.html

According to a report by AP, the Chinese government first knew that the virus was transmissible between humans on 14th January but did not tell the public until 20th January. Indeed on the 19th January, Wuhan held as mass banquet for tens of thousands of people. On 23rd January, China imposed a lockdown on Wuhan. All traffic, including local and international air traffic was cut from Wuhan. All tour groups departing from China were canceled although individual travelers were not affected.

https://apnews.com/68a9e1b91de4ffc166acd6012d82c2f9

The Chinese government probably thought that the virus would behave like SARS, with limited transmissibility. What made this virus very different from SARS was that it was transmissible before symptoms appear.

Although it was possible that the virus was released as a result of a laboratory accident. The actual chance is very remote. A large number of environmental samples were taken from the wet market and those from the wildlife section had a much higher positive rate for the virus. That would imply a conspiracy whereby personnel in the laboratory purposefully infected the wildlife section of the wet market. Whether the virus came from the wet market or the laboratory is still very bad for China’s reputation.

[whateverpedia]

Originally Posted by derekwong28

The current thinking about why the epidemic got so bad in the US and Europe is that there was already community spread of the virus in January or even December, well before Wuhan was quarantined. Therefore, it was highly unlikely that this pandemic could have been prevented..

It is also possible that the virus has mutated from its Wuhan origins, and this mutated, more contagious version is the one running rampage throughout the US and Europe.

Scientists have identified a new strain of the coronavirus that has become dominant worldwide and appears to be more contagious than the versions that spread in the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic, according to a new study led by scientists at Los Alamos National Laboratory.

The new strain appeared in February in Europe, migrated quickly to the East Coast of the United States and has been the dominant strain across the world since mid-March, the scientists wrote.

In addition to spreading faster, it may make people vulnerable to a second infection after a first bout with the disease, the report warned.

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...-than-original

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

First we have to agree on what are facts..and well this is America
so we know that's never going to happen.

I have many friends on the opposite political side of me, a few of them I can actually talk politics with. Two of them and I have watched most of the covid task force briefings and whenever we talk about what we just heard ... we agree on what the words said were, but we never agree on what they mean.

We don't even agree on facial ticks, mannerism, basically nothing.

...and I guess that that's provably how it is everywhere.

My friend....

I was talking about myself (as always ) ...I meant my internal dialog.

And I agree about hearing the exact same words, and interpreting it entirely differently.

if someone hears something they don't like, they instantly interpret it in the worst possible way, so it's easier to argue against. Typically, this will start with "So what you're saying is...." and then they say something that wasn't said at all.

Most of my friends are business owners. And most business owners are conservative. Almost all are intelligent and thoughtful.

But they are hearing a different story than I'm hearing. They are experiencing a different interpretation of the world. And almost never do we argue (or anything close to it). Why? Because what I mean as a Fact is a verifiable, provable statement. Never an interpretation of reality. And those are few and far between.

And...I'll almost never argue with anything they say, because I'm only invested in their friendship, not their world view.

Added later; Here is why I almost never argue. If the argument is about a fact, it can be easily looked up, which I will do. So, it's possible I was wrong, and now I know the reality. A win for me.

If someone argues a fact that I know is true (Objectively true, not open to interpretation), as long as it doesn't involve someone I love, I let it go. I get nothing out of the discord of arguing.

And arguing is battle. It's defending your position. There is no attempt to learn in an argument. There is no search for truth. So I never argue (once I see it's devolved into an argument). My wife and I never argue. I may not want something she wants, or like something she likes....but it's never an argument.

And in selling, arguing is always wrong. It's always resulting in no sale. Arguing isn't part of the thinking process. Arguing is battle. And the only people who battle are the ones who have run out of ideas.

[socialentry]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

And in selling, arguing is always wrong. It's always resulting in no sale. Arguing isn't part of the thinking process. Arguing is battle. And the only people who battle are the ones who have run out of ideas.

Can it convince third parties though?

I've never seen someone be convinced by an argument, though on other forums I've seen people convinced by two other people arguing.But the convertees were kind of on the edge to begin with, or at least very close.


I sometime watch the Munk Debates, where they poll the audience at the beginning and the end and usually it only shifts by 1 or 2%. But there was one (on Pierre Elliott Trudeau, who has a similar stature to JFK in Canada) where the pro-PET guy apparently got completely washed out and the shift in audience opinion was dramatic. E.g. IIRC one third or more. Unfortunately they didn't record that one.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by socialentry

Can it convince third parties though?

I've never seen someone be convinced by an argument, though on other forums I've seen people convinced by two other people arguing.But the convertees were kind of on the edge to begin with, or at least very close.
.

The reason a third party can be influenced by watching an argument is that they are not as invested as the two people arguing. But this doesn't mean the third party is unbiased. Usually, they interpret the winner of the argument by a number of factors;
1) Who do they like more?
2) Who supports their established position already?
3) And a distant third...who has the better argument?

There is also the matter of authority. Some people are very prone to agree with someone in authority (as opposed to an actual authority in the subject)...and others are conditioned to rebel against authority...regardless of what is said.

Do this; Watch any Youtube video on any controversial subject...And read any 20 or 30 comments. You'll almost never see a rational argument. You'll see the verbal equivalent of throwing stones. Even people who have the rational conclusion, rarely know how to explain it without arguing.

To me, even if I'm right, but my reasoning was wrong...I'm still wrong. It happens.

[Dan Riffle]

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

It is also possible that the virus has mutated from its Wuhan origins, and this mutated, more contagious version is the one running rampage throughout the US and Europe.



https://www.latimes.com/california/s...-than-original

Sounds like potentially bad science (or at least let's hope):

https://gizmodo.com/what-to-know-abo...avi-1843265388

[myob]

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Sounds like potentially bad science (or at least let's hope):

https://gizmodo.com/what-to-know-abo...avi-1843265388

Actually, science sez that's what viruses do - they replicate millions of times once they invade a host and these replications often result in mutated strains. Not much is known specifically about COVID-19 yet (aka novel coronavirus). But the common flu is an example of virus behavior.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by myob

Actually, science sez that's what viruses do - they replicate millions of times once they invade a host and these replications commonly result in mutated strains. The common flu is an example of virus behavior.

...and things like HIV mutate like a billion times in the same body,
effectively making it like you are fighting a billion different viruses at once.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

...and things like HIV mutate like a billion times in the same body,
effectively making it like you are fighting a billion different viruses at once.

Viruses mutate and evolve...just like all living things (although viruses are technically not living, as they need a host).

It's the speed of replication that brings mutations so often. Even 1,000 people with the virus means trillions and trillions of generations of the virus. So mutations are inevitable.

And the mutations that survive are always stronger, never weaker. at least they are better at surviving.....longer incubation periods, faster replication, easier transmission from host to host.

Actually, killing the host (meaning us) isn't the goal of the virus. It's an effect of such a successful virus, that it takes over the body faster than the body can fight it off.

Man, I love hearing myself bloviate.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Man, I love hearing myself bloviate.

I'm glad someone does.



lol, I could not resist.

So... are you at the shop?

[Dan Riffle]

Originally Posted by myob

Actually, science sez that's what viruses do - they replicate millions of times once they invade a host and these replications often result in mutated strains. Not much is known specifically about COVID-19 yet (aka novel coronavirus). But the common flu is an example of virus behavior.

I think we all know that viruses mutate. I was talking about the specific research Whatty was quoting. The article I linked to discussed the potential weaknesses of the findings. If you read the article I linked to, you'll find:

Angela Rasmussen, a virologist at Columbia University, is even more skeptical of the team’s conclusions than Hanage.

“They didn’t do a single experiment, and this is all conjecture,” she told Gizmodo. “There’s no indication that this mutation makes the virus more transmissible, and they’ve done nothing to show that this mutation is functionally significant.”

Ergo, potentially bad science.

[myob]

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

I think we all know that viruses mutate..

Funny that scientists specifically studying the novel coronavirus don't even understand how it mutates. Many of the mutant strains are not viable, and most of them just die out.

But this new virus (hence the name novel coronavirus) appears to be very efficient at hijacking the cells' mitochondria and replicating rapidly. There appears to be at least 8 virulent strains of the virus spreading around the globe and wrecking havoc.

The research community is far from embracing any of the studies that haven’t gone through the rigorous peer-review process before publication in a journal.

The challenge facing researchers in developing a vaccine is that this virus is the master of disguise. It keeps on infecting and killing people with impunity like an unseen sniper.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by myob

But this new virus (hence the name novel coronavirus) appears to be very efficient at hijacking the cells' mitochondria and replicating rapidly. There appears to be at least 8 virulent strains of the virus spreading around the globe and wrecking havoc.

I wonder if the different strains account for the fact that so many people have little or no symptoms, and others go to the Intensive Care Unit.

And it isn't just the elderly. On Facebook, a guy said that the average age of the people who died was 85 years old. That seemed high, so I looked it up on the World Health Organization website. It's actually 47% of the people who didn't survive are 75 or older.

Although the vast majority of non-survivors are over 50. And most are men.

[myob]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I wonder if the different strains account for the fact that so many people have little or no symptoms, and others go to the Intensive Care Unit.

It now seems it is not so much age, but the state of one's immune system, preexisting medical conditions, and even genetics are what affects survival probability. However, the research is far from complete in understanding the complexity of the virus mechanism.

It has actually been around quite awhile, but has evolved an array of adaptations that make it much more lethal than the other viruses we have seen so far. Most likely, it will not stop evolving anytime soon.

This article will perhaps give better insight into a far more complex virus than what was previously believed:

Profile of a killer: the complex biology powering the coronavirus pandemic (Nature, May 4, 2020)

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

I'm glad someone does.



lol, I could not resist.

So... are you at the shop?

We opened back up on Monday. Still wearing a mask, still keeping about 6 feet away from customers. Still not having my wife wait on customers. Although she stops in to work in her art studio.

One drawback is that almost every customers has a "Theory" about the virus. Wooster is a very conservative town, so I'm hearing a lot of "It's just the flu", and "The media is making it all up".

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

We opened back up on Monday. Still wearing a mask, still keeping about 6 feet away from customers. Still not having my wife wait on customers. Although she stops in to work in her art studio.

One drawback is that almost every customers has a "Theory" about the virus. Wooster is a very conservative town, so I'm hearing a lot of "It's just the flu", and "The media is making it all up".

That's ALL I hear around these parts and from people I consider friends.

If I took shit personally, I would not have any friends left because 99.99999% of my friends think I'm being stupid.

I see one mask out of a hundred people...if that.

The mask itself has become super political in my area. That's a shame and will probably end a few lives that otherwise would have made it.

On a side note, the government has taught me how many sheeple there really are. I honestly thought more people were leaders and understood critical thinking. I guess my blinders were on because that's the type of people I'm usually around. I have learned that if you want to just give the worst news possible ... just give it in tiny little snippets and talk about a lot of nonsense in-between... each snippet of doom. Apparently, when applied correctly we don't even need a reach around.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

We opened back up on Monday. Still wearing a mask, still keeping about 6 feet away from customers. Still not having my wife wait on customers. Although she stops in to work in her art studio.

One drawback is that almost every customers has a "Theory" about the virus. Wooster is a very conservative town, so I'm hearing a lot of "It's just the flu", and "The media is making it all up".

Claude, how do you respond to statements like that, if at all?

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

That's ALL I hear around these parts and from people I consider friends.

If I took shit personally, I would not have any friends left because 99.99999% of my friends think I'm being stupid.

I see one mask out of a hundred people...if that.

The mask itself has become super political in my area. That's a shame and will probably end a few lives that otherwise would have made it.

On a side note, the government has taught me how many sheeple there really are. I honestly thought more people were leaders and understood critical thinking. I guess my blinders were on because that's the type of people I'm usually around. I have learned that if you want to just give the worst news possible ... just give it in tiny little snippets and talk about a lot of nonsense in-between... each snippet of doom. Apparently, when applied correctly we don't even need a reach around.

Here in Clarksville TN at Walmart I observe, actually counted, people wearing masks compared to people not wearing masks and around 95% of the people wear masks.


Added later:
Also, even though restaurants were given the green light to reopen last week the majority of them remain closed or only open for take out/sidewalk service including Burger King.

[Kay King]

I see most people here wearing masks in public now. I think people are willing to take precautions but only to a certain point and I think in some states that point is being pushed to the limit.


I saw a one line quoted on a news feed today and looked up the rest of the quote...I like it. I saw it right after reading about possible commandeering of hotels in California to house more homeless - while those homeless already placed in hotels are being provided with alcohol, pot and methadone (and probably more) by the state.

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C.S. Lewis

[myob]

Our education system is producing large numbers of people ignorant about science and a disdain for this profession, leaving them to be victims of less rigorous conjectures, conspiracies, and preposterous theories. The spread of ignorance is becoming more of a threat to our way of life than any pandemic ever has.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
- Albert Einstein

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

Claude, how do you respond to statements like that, if at all?

I respond with something like "I hear you" or "We'll get through it".

Arguing with them just labels me "the enemy". Bad for business.

But you have to understand, i hear nonsensical statements on many subjects, all day. A few are lies, but most are just coming from people who aren't well informed, highly educated, or serious thinkers.

And it would make a difference if they were people I cared about.

I have a good friend that is a true believer...a strong supporter of the president. He sends me political messages he got on Facebook. Mostly about how the virus is fake.

He's no fool. He just watches different news than I do. He listens to different people.....but it's hard to listen to him, because I'm actually listening, instead of what I do in the store...which is not a real conversation.

The closest I came to engaging a customer was a few days ago, a lady said "The liberal media is trying to convince us the virus is real".

I said "Well they are doing a good job of it. They convinced every doctor, hospital, governor, and country on the planet." As soon as I said it, I knew it was a mistake. The good news is, she didn't understand that I wasn't agreeing with her, so he said "Exactly".

But I live and work in an ultra conservative Christian town. All my friends are conservative. Most are highly religious. I'm not either one. But I judge people by what they are, not what they believe.

It is interesting to me that so many people want to share their "insight" on this pandemic. And it never...never follows what the doctors say, or the CDC says, or what World Health Organization says. It's always some conspiracy theory or a political sound bite they heard somewhere.

But they are nice people. And so I'm nice back to them.



Do you argue or try to convince people who say silly things?

[Jeffery]

Claude, well done. as usual.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Do you argue or try to convince people who say silly things?

Not since debate club.

People think I'm passive because I don't argue (Except with my GF...how the heck she makes me actually argue with her I dunno - but it happens.).

The truth is I learned the lesson early.

There is no point... or spoon depending on your world view.

[myob]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Do you argue or try to convince people who say silly things?

It's one of my hobbies, but never in front of my customers.

"Never argue with an idiot, onlookers won't be able to tell the difference."
- Mark Twain

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Do you argue or try to convince people who say silly things?

Only my sisters and only because its the only time they actually listen to me.

Example. They have the cruel habit of saying "Dinner is almost ready." I ask them why are they being so cruel to me. Wouldn't it be better if you just say "Dinner is ready oh anointed one."

Reminds of something that happened to me in Belgium (before the virus of course). Long story short, I was on a country road riding a scooter doing all of 2 to 3 mph and was not wearing a helmet. The helmet was affixed to the rear bumper bar.

An attractive police woman stopped me and asked "Where is your helmet?" I replied "Where is your hat." She abruptly went back to her vehicle and returned wearing her hat. I was wearing my helmet.

Not a word was said but the shouts sure scared a bunch of birds.

BTW, that really has nothing to do with our conversation unless those conservative town gals in Wooster aren't so conservative after all. Only one way to find out.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

On a side note, the government has taught me how many sheeple there really are. I honestly thought more people were leaders and understood critical thinking.

I understand that thinking, but I don't think of them as Sheeple. They are just hearing different things than I'm hearing.

We have no choice in what we believe. Almost always, we hear something and believe it as fact unless it goes against something else we believe. It's why I don't think people who disagree with me are stupid. They are informed from a different source. That source may just not be credible...like a drunk uncle, or a political pundit with a talk show.

And critical thinking? My experience is that most don't even think of critical thinking as a good thing. And even people who understand logic still don't make decisions that way.
And I know I'm just like that, although I do make attempts at being unbiased.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

Claude, well done. as usual.

He's never undercooked

[Kay King]

We saw this one coming:


Ohio (and maybe other states) are asking employers to report those workers who refuse to return to work. Businesses reported employees saying they 'don't want to come back until it's 'safe'.



My own guess is it will 'be safe' when checks from unemployment (and the extsra $600/week from the fed) runs out - some are earning more not working than they ever earned on a job.


If employers are willing for workers to stay away longer without losing their jobs - that's up to the employer. However, a worker who refuses to work will lose unemployment benefits.