[Princess Balestra]

Originally Posted by Kay King

For some people, wearing a mask is an uncomfortable thing - and talking in one can be difficult.!

Gotta take comfort there is a whole niche market here for anywan got their dom socks on.

Srsly tho, ain't no reason why the nerds of 2173 shouldn't continue the grand tradition of People Dressin' Up In Stuff To Recreate The Past.

When the Civil War re-enactment boys finally put down their divisive hats ... an' even the King Arthur guys in the Yookay quit hangin' out evry Stonehenge to become masters of woad envy ... the superconnected hairless 110yos of the planet can meet up to savor the pleasures of slappin' sun creem on one another's juiciliciosness.

Course, by this stage, the thrill won't necessarily be the SLAPPIN' but the SUN, bcs we all be underground mole types by 2173.

"Oh, an' yeah — the masks they wore to quit breathin' that stuff they called air. You just can't imagine it, can you?"

"That's why we have to keep the memory alive for future generations. So cast aside your mask and make with the Netflix binge watch rictus bcs the next wave of intergalactic tourists are due in 10 minutes — an' if they hate the show, we ain't eatin' again ..."

[DWolfe]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

So.....My brother-in-law...81 years old....went to a meeting of a local genealogy group a week ago. About a dozen old people...no masks...no distancing. What an idiot.

Now three people in the group have tested positive for the virus, including our brother-in-law. So far, no symptoms.

Now, Cheryl is taking prescriptions to their home (He has a spectrum of medical issues), and nobody is seeing them.

Hopefully everything turns out for the best for your brother in law, plus the group and Cheryl stays safe.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Princess Balestra

Gotta take comfort there is a whole niche market here for anywan got their dom socks on.

Srsly tho, ain't no reason why the nerds of 2173 shouldn't continue the grand tradition of People Dressin' Up In Stuff To Recreate The Past.

When the Civil War re-enactment boys finally put down their divisive hats ... an' even the King Arthur guys in the Yookay quit hangin' out evry Stonehenge to become masters of woad envy ... the superconnected hairless 110yos of the planet can meet up to savor the pleasures of slappin' sun creem on one another's juiciliciosness.

Course, by this stage, the thrill won't necessarily be the SLAPPIN' but the SUN, bcs we all be underground mole types by 2173.

"Oh, an' yeah — the masks they wore to quit breathin' that stuff they called air. You just can't imagine it, can you?"

"That's why we have to keep the memory alive for future generations. So cast aside your mask and make with the Netflix binge watch rictus bcs the next wave of intergalactic tourists are due in 10 minutes — an' if they hate the show, we ain't eatin' again ..."

Douglas Adams couldn't have said it better.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Kay King

For some people, wearing a mask is an uncomfortable thing - and talking in one can be difficult.

i have a fear of having my face covered that stems from a childhood incident - wearing the masks has been tricky . I finally found some soft, layered fabric masks I can bear to keep on my face for a while.

Interesting news today (I thought so, anyway):

So half are bots - and the other half are people who will believe anything/ Good match!

Don't want to scare you Kay.. we have a lot in common. Mean that in a good way.

[perryny]

Originally Posted by Kay King

For some people, wearing a mask is an uncomfortable thing - and talking in one can be difficult.

Oh my GOD, my breath.

Perhaps another silver lining? My oral hygiene is going to improve dramatically.

[Kay King]

Oh my GOD, my breath.

That's a relief - I thought it was just me...

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by perryny

Oh my GOD, my breath.

Perhaps another silver lining? My oral hygiene is going to improve dramatically.

I hope Riffle reads this. Just saying.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I hope Riffle reads this. Just saying.

He could not even make an Oral-B grade in school for personal hygiene. You should know having had a Closeup with him.Next time you meet have your Arm & Hammer ready.

[Jeffery]

How Could the CDC Make That Mistake?
May 21, 2020

Excerpt:
The government’s disease-fighting agency is conflating viral and antibody tests, compromising a few crucial metrics that governors depend on to reopen their economies. Pennsylvania, Georgia, Texas, and other states are doing the same.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is conflating the results of two different types of coronavirus tests, distorting several important metrics and providing the country with an inaccurate picture of the state of the pandemic.

“You’ve got to be kidding me,” Ashish Jha, the K. T. Li Professor of Global Health at Harvard and the director of the Harvard Global Health Institute, told us when we described what the CDC was doing. “How could the CDC make that mistake? This is a mess.”

~ ~ ~

Wow, surprising? All of the data we have been reading and discussing about lockdowns was not accurate. A reason why some people claim the lockdowns across the country was based on data that did not jive with facts?

[Profit Traveler]

"Hairstylist with Coronavirus works for 8 days, exposing up to 91 people"

Who said Testing is overrated? Please do not tell me the guy in charge of it.

[Kay King]

I'm not sure how many of the 'people' stories I even believe - seems a bit odd that these 'OMG' stories seem to appear just when that particular item is in contention. I'm sure some of the stories are true and also sure some are exaggerated or fictional.



Jeffery - The numbers were combined by NY and other states because if you tested positive for the antibodies ...it meant you HAD covid-19 at some time. Didn't know the CDC did it but don't see why it's a shocker for anyone.



3 people - 1 tests positive for covid-19
2 test negative


2 people left - 1 tests positive for antibodies
1 tests negative
Conclusion: 2 out of 3 'had' covid-19



We will have 'shocking stories' for a couple months yet and it doesn't matter because we HAVE to open the country up again and we have to do it now. The numbers are declining - the deaths are declining - there may or may not be a 'second wave'. The states that have re-opened have not spiked in numbers. We are certainly prepared now when it comes to PPE's and ventilators....

[Profit Traveler]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I'm not sure how many of the 'people' stories I even believe - seems a bit odd that these 'OMG' stories seem to appear just when that particular item is in contention. I'm sure some of the stories are true and also sure some are exaggerated or fictional.



Jeffery - The numbers were combined by NY and other states because if you tested positive for the antibodies ...it meant you HAD covid-19 at some time. Didn't know the CDC did it but don't see why it's a shocker for anyone.



3 people - 1 tests positive for covid-19
2 test negative


2 people left - 1 tests positive for antibodies
1 tests negative
Conclusion: 2 out of 3 'had' covid-19



We will have 'shocking stories' for a couple months yet and it doesn't matter because we HAVE to open the country up again and we have to do it now. The numbers are declining - the deaths are declining - there may or may not be a 'second wave'. The states that have re-opened have not spiked in numbers. We are certainly prepared now when it comes to PPE's and ventilators....

Just noticed your sig.....Hi Larious! I will Honorably Bow.

But get ready...it is going to be a Tsunami of Infections. There is either Increased Positives everywhere that has reopened or Intentionally Fudged Data in my opinion.

If Scientists and Testing are not leading the charge, Hunches are. That hairstylist went to work WITH SYMPTOMS.


Churches are super spreaders. Guy in charge saying open them or I will by force. 1 plus 1 equals reality.


How are Celebrities, 2 year olds, White House Staff, CNN Anchors, Athletes, Pastors, Doctors, Protestors getting COVID? I dont know but lets go to work and play...okey dokey!


"Expanded testing will be crucial for managing the coronavirus pandemic in the coming months.
The current inability of states to fully count the number of people infected means they are missing opportunities to isolate infectious patients and trace their contacts to prevent further spread. Many states are reopening their economies with an incomplete picture of the number of COVID-19 cases because they haven’t tested enough.

Comprehensive testing can provide an early warning that case numbers may be growing and alert policymakers of the need to deploy critical resources to interrupt spread and prevent a return to pre-shutdown disease levels."

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I'm not sure how many of the 'people' stories I even believe - seems a bit odd that these 'OMG' stories seem to appear just when that particular item is in contention. I'm sure some of the stories are true and also sure some are exaggerated or fictional.

Jeffery - The numbers were combined by NY and other states because if you tested positive for the antibodies ...it meant you HAD covid-19 at some time. Didn't know the CDC did it but don't see why it's a shocker for anyone.

3 people - 1 tests positive for covid-19
2 test negative

2 people left - 1 tests positive for antibodies
1 tests negative
Conclusion: 2 out of 3 'had' covid-19

We will have 'shocking stories' for a couple months yet and it doesn't matter because we HAVE to open the country up again and we have to do it now. The numbers are declining - the deaths are declining - there may or may not be a 'second wave'. The states that have re-opened have not spiked in numbers. We are certainly prepared now when it comes to PPE's and ventilators....

The numbers were "not" combined by NY and other states.
The numbers were combined by the CDC.

The governors of those states used the CDC reports for decision making purposes.

The reason why it's a shocker is because the governor's decisions to open those states were based on the CDC reports, mainly the increase and decrease of people with the virus.

By combining the numbers without the governors knowledge they were led to believe the number of infected people was higher.

3 people - 1 tests positive for covid-19
2 test negative

It stops right there.

Later, 2 of the 3 people are left
1 tests positive for antibodies
1 tests negative

Conclusion:
1 out of 3 'have" covid-19
1 of the 3 tests positive for antibodies
1 of the 3 tests negative

The governors were led to believe 2 of 3 had the virus owed to the combined data.

That is not conspiracy and I have never been a conspiracy theorist Kay. Sorry if I gave you that impression.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

The numbers are declining - the deaths are declining - there may or may not be a 'second wave'. The states that have re-opened have not spiked in numbers. We are certainly prepared now when it comes to PPE's and ventilators....

The deaths have declined. But it takes several weeks between getting the virus and dying from it. The states that have reopened, have just reopened. A month from now, we'll see the results.

And there will be a second wave. how do I know? Because the first wave was such a small percentage of the population. And almost nobody had the virus 3 months ago.

We are now starting with a huge numerical disadvantage. Lots of people have it, and don't know it. They are either asymptomatic, or haven't stated showing symptoms.

And now....the states are stopping many of the rules that kept the virus in check.

The good news is that most people are now wearing masks, and are washing their hands several times a day. We didn't have that at first.

The bad news is that a substantial percentage of the country now thinks it's just about over....so they are getting together again. We see the idiots in bars partying away...but I suspect this is much more rare than we think.

No idea how bad the wave will be, but this isn't over by a long shot.

Your math is right about how they figure how many people have/had the virus. But it's still just 4.3% of the population. Way too early for herd immunity to start taking effect.

But deaths per day are way down. I suspect because the main sources of these deaths (rest homes. meat packing plants, veterans homes) are getting more attention.

I can't believe that this whole thing (In the US) is just a few months old.

[Jeffery]

What I personally consider to be bad news. Today I did my weekly shopping at Walmart and conducted my personal observation of people wearing masks.

In the past the majority of people wore masks and there was always an employee at the entrance controlling how many people were allowed in the store. Today's results were surprising to me. The majority of people did not wear masks and there was no employee controlling how many people allowed in the store.

I personally observed a small group of people outside the store openly telling people that wore masks to include me that we were trying to make them feel guilty for not wearing masks. I stood my ground, stood full height, shoulders back and told them to "walk away or you will crawl away". They walked away.

A County Mounty in full dress approached me and in no uncertain terms directed me to "Carry On" while he pointed me to the door. In my world that is a good thing.

Once inside the store there was no control of the inventory. People were allowed to take as much as they wanted of anything and everything. Today marked the second week the shelves were empty of bleach.

I noticed a young man with two pre-made pizzas and bags of chips in the checkout in front of me. Good naturedly I said something like "Memorial Day goodies?" He looked at me and replied "I wish. They are all out."

About that time my wife said "They are all out of hamburger and hotdog buns."

The new norm for shopping at Walmart?

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Yesterday I got the call at the store.

"Is Cheryl there?" It was her sister-in-law.

She started crying on the phone. I was certain our brother-in-law had died. Cheryl was at home. I asked what was wrong, and she said "Oh, nothing. I just need to talk to Cheryl".

I said I'd have Cheryl call her right back.

So.....My brother-in-law...81 years old....went to a meeting of a local genealogy group a week ago. About a dozen old people...no masks...no distancing. What an idiot.

Now three people in the group have tested positive for the virus, including our brother-in-law. So far, no symptoms.

Now, Cheryl is taking prescriptions to their home (He has a spectrum of medical issues), and nobody is seeing them.

And now we'll wait.

I missed that post about your brother in law. sorry to hear. Keep us posted. Really brings it home to you when someone that close gets affected.

[Profit Traveler]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

The deaths have declined. But it takes several weeks between getting the virus and dying from it. The states that have reopened, have just reopened. A month from now, we'll see the results.

And there will be a second wave. how do I know? Because the first wave was such a small percentage of the population. And almost nobody had the virus 3 months ago.

We are now starting with a huge numerical disadvantage. Lots of people have it, and don't know it. hey are either asymptomatic, or haven't stated showing symptoms.

And now....the states are stopping many of the rules that kept the virus in check.

The good news is that most people are now wearing masks, and are washing their hands several times a day. We didn't have that at first.

The bad news is that a substantial percentage of the country now thinks it's just about over....so they are getting together again. We see the idiots in bars partying away...but I suspect this is much more rare than we think.

No idea how bad the wave will be, but this isn't over by a long shot.

Your math is right about how they figure how many people have/had the virus. But it's still just 4.3% of the population. Way too early for herd immunity to start taking effect.

But deaths per day are way down. I suspect because the main sources of these deaths (rest homes. meat packing plants, veterans homes) are getting more attention.

I can't believe that this whole thing (In the US) is just a few months old.

Wish we could make you lead Scientist but then you could not speak.

[leahgetty]

I did post about how the consumer behaviour will change post this disastrous pandemic. I've seen businesses take steps and have tried to share a few things I found interesting.

https://www.warriorforum.com/offline...utm_term=title

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

The majority of people did not wear masks and there was no employee controlling how many people allowed in the store.

The majority not wearing masks is a bad sign. It mean they think this is over, or that it as fake news to begin with.

Originally Posted by Jeffery

I personally observed a small group of people outside the store openly telling people that wore masks to include me that we were trying to make them feel guilty for not wearing masks.

I would have said "I'm not trying to make you feel guilty for not wearing a mask. Are you trying to make me feel smarter for wearing one?"

Sometimes being a jerk is its own reward. Ask Dan Riffle.

Originally Posted by lanfear63

I missed that post about your brother in law. sorry to hear. Keep us posted. Really brings it home to you when someone that close gets affected.

We talked to him yesterday. So far, no symptoms. Thanks for the sentiment.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

I personally observed a small group of people outside the store openly telling people that wore masks to include me that we were trying to make them feel guilty for not wearing masks. I stood my ground, stood full height, shoulders back and told them to "walk away or you will crawl away". They walked away.

A County Mounty in full dress approached me and in no uncertain terms directed me to "Carry On" while he pointed me to the door. In my world that is a good thing.

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

The majority not wearing masks is a bad sign. It mean they think this is over, or that it as fake news to begin with.

I would have said "I'm not trying to make you feel guilty for not wearing a mask. Are you trying to make me feel smarter for wearing one?"

Sometimes being a jerk is its own reward. Ask Dan Riffle.

Later, I learned that the store employee felt threatened by the hoodlums and left the area to seek assistance.

In my case, the lead hood yelled at my wife something like "Hey b***h you can't hear me then come and feel me." That is when I nudged my wife inside the store (she knows the drill) and I said what I said.

First, in a polite crowd, a jerk remark will only create a feeling of embarrassment. In a confrontational crowd a jerk remark will only create a provocative response and typically a action.

I have been trained to stop provocative actions.. I did for a living.

The best way to stop it all is to 'own the moment' wherein you get only one shot at defusing an 'imminent threat' - 'no negotiation' and in this case amateur hoodlums can be more dangerous compared to professionals.

'Walk away or crawl away.'

Not much of a choice there - not much of a chance that a smart mouthed amateur will pick on someone bigger than him - there is a greater chance that the hoodlum will need to 'save face' in front of his crew and in today's hoodlum world they have learned to live to fight another day (its just a saying).

Here is what I did not say earlier. The County Mounty offered me a 'get out of jail free card' and when I showed him my I.D. he smiled and invited me over to his home for Memorial Day.

Speaking of Memorial Day. We eat in 30 minutes. Have a good one Claude.

[Kay King]

People like that are simply low lifes - responding to them in any way encourages them.


I made a quick grocery trip today (holiday, yes, but few people in the store). Well stocked, again running weekly specials....a few people didn't have masks but everyone stayed in their own 'space'.



The 'mask thing' is one of our 'pendulums'. For some reason when we do something or react to a crisis....our society often swings too far the other direction....but eventually the pendulum gets to the center. So we go from no masks - to mask police - to reaction against masks - and finally end up with wearing masks if you want and not if you don't want.


Lady at the farm yesterday got out of her car with a mask and a lg can of Lysol spray disinfectant. She planned to take the spray with her on a horseback ride....nope. What was she going to disinfect? The Trees? She was shocked to learn that spraying that stuff while on a horse very well might spook that horse. Sometimes I forget how ridiculous many people are - but times like these highlight those folks.


Jeffery - My son is trained - carries a gun - and credentials. In a case like the one you describe, he would walk away. He would not confront or argue unless someone was at risk of being harmed.


Even the gun we use for home protection offers a warning...First two shells are birdshot...next four are .45's. I expect you will agree - those who are trained and capable of handling such situations know the best outcome is if you can walk away without a confrontation....because that's what people like that want.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

First, in a polite crowd, a jerk remark will only create a feeling of embarrassment. In a confrontational crowd a jerk remark will only create a provocative response and typically a action.
I have been trained to stop provocative actions.. I did for a living.

I didn't know it was a gang, or that they were looking for trouble. I was picturing a small group of neighbors...and maybe a noisy one couldn't shut up.

Yes, the only sane thing is to walk away. And it would have taken a direct personal assault for me to react. 99% of self defense is not participating. And if I am with my wife, my only concern is to get her away from there.

Originally Posted by Jeffery

Speaking of Memorial Day. We eat in 30 minutes. Have a good one Claude.

You too.


Added later; I just watched a few minutes of a Joe Rogan podcast where Elon Musk is talking about the Virus. Nearly every comment is about how it's all fake. There is no virus. It's a scam and a political stunt.

I was shocked that there are still people that seriously think that.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

Wish we could make you lead Scientist but then you could not speak.

As if that would be a bad thing.

[Profit Traveler]

Didn't need a Headline but knew they would pop up...

States face criticism for COVID-19 data cover-ups

[socialentry]

Meh.


Taiwan registered only 7 deaths from coronavirus... from December to this day. There's no debate about reopening because it never locked down. Its economy has shown growth in Q1, and its unemployment rate stands at 4.1%.



In the meantime, in North America: Don't worry,be happy.

[Profit Traveler]

Originally Posted by socialentry

Meh.


Taiwan registered only 7 deaths from coronavirus... from December to this day. There's no debate about reopening because it never locked down. Its economy has shown growth in Q1, and its unemployment rate stands at 4.1%.
In the meantime, in North America: Don't worry,be happy.

COVID exposed a Real Virus that needs to be addressed. I am happy about that.

[Kay King]

COVID exposed a Real Virus that needs to be addressed. I am happy about that.

Huh? Care to elaborate?

[Mark Singletary]

I'm not sure how all this is going to play out. No one really knows. I play both sides of the fence-lockdowns may have been necessary but they can't go on forever. Testing is good, no question about that. But is it really the key?

Many people keep talking about science and data versus someone's opinion or gut feelings. Data needs to prevail while opinions, especially by leaders, are kept to themselves.

So, assuming this data is correct let's look at some data and put all opinions aside.

Hong Kong: Total cases-1,066 (per million population 142); Deaths-4 (per million pop 0.5); Total Tests-202,930 (per million pop 27,090)
South Korea: Total cases-11,255 (per mil. pop. 219); Deaths-269 (per mil. pop. 5); Total Tests-839,475 (per mil. pop. 16,375)
USA: Total cases-1,725,178 (5,215 per mil. pop.); Deaths-100,540 (per mil. pop. 45.1); Total Tests-15,507,386 (per mil. pop. 46,877)
Taiwan: Total cases-441 (19 per mil.pop.); Deaths-7 (per mil.pop. 0.3); Total Tests-71,101 (per mil. pop. 2,986)

I'm not sure about Hong Kong or South Korea's lockdown situation but I know for a fact that the USA had a hard lockdown while Taiwan did not.

After an extra 2 week extended break for Chinese New Year kids have been in school. People go to restaurants, to work, to see their friends, to play, etc. with no real restrictions. Some places like public transportation require masks but that's about it.

What's the difference?

Mask wearing is one big difference. It's widespread in Asia but not so much in the USA. Remember it's the doctors and scientists (data no opinons) that said they were no good in the beginnng.

Looking at population density, New York has 416 people per square mile and Taiwan has 1683 per square mile. So, it's harder in Taiwan to have your space.

I'm not sure if I understand the data, but it appears it says that the difference between the results of the US vs. Taiwan are not lockdowns and testing.

Mark

[Profit Traveler]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Huh? Care to elaborate?

Sounds like here is a Hole care to jump in it?

Well when I read Beach Goers saying "If we get it, We get it." It indicates they do not care about themselves nor others and the general population becomes the victim of that mentality.

[Frank Donovan]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

I'm not sure if I understand the data, but it appears it says that the difference between the results of the US vs. Taiwan are not lockdowns and testing.

Timing could have played a part. Taiwan was severely hit by the SARS outbreak of 2003 and lessons learned from that meant it reacted much earlier to the threat, while the rest of the world was still debating about what to do.

"Among those early decisive measures was the decision to ban travel from many parts of China, stop cruise ships docking at the island's ports, and introduce strict punishments for anyone found breaching home quarantine orders. In addition, Taiwanese officials also moved to ramp up domestic face-mask production to ensure the local supply, rolled out islandwide testing for coronavirus -- including retesting people who had previously unexplained pneumonia -- and announced new punishments for spreading disinformation about the virus."
Source: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/04/a...hnk/index.html

In most other countries, the lockdowns were a belated attempt to stem the spread of a virus that had already taken hold in the population.

[Profit Traveler]

From Resource-Vietnam, Slovenia, and 3 other overlooked coronavirus Success Stories

"It seems like some countries have figured out not only how to flatten their coronavirus curves, but also how to send them plunging downward.

From Slovenia to Jordan to Iceland, governments took early action to impose lockdowns, test and trace thousands of people, isolate the sick, encourage social distancing and preventive measures like mask wearing, and communicate honestly with the public.

Those interventions curbed the number of new confirmed Covid-19 cases and deaths, allowing leaders to reopen schools and businesses and reintroduce a sense of normalcy into everyday life. Some are now reporting no new confirmed cases or deaths.

In effect, they followed the prescribed playbook for such a pandemic, and — surprise, surprise — it worked."

[Kurt]

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

Timing could have played a part. Taiwan was severely hit by the SARS outbreak of 2003 and lessons learned from that meant it reacted much earlier to the threat, while the rest of the world was still debating about what to do.

"Among those early decisive measures was the decision to ban travel from many parts of China, stop cruise ships docking at the island's ports, and introduce strict punishments for anyone found breaching home quarantine orders. In addition, Taiwanese officials also moved to ramp up domestic face-mask production to ensure the local supply, rolled out islandwide testing for coronavirus -- including retesting people who had previously unexplained pneumonia -- and announced new punishments for spreading disinformation about the virus."
Source: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/04/a...hnk/index.html

In most other countries, the lockdowns were a belated attempt to stem the spread of a virus that had already taken hold in the population.

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

From Resource-Vietnam, Slovenia, and 3 other overlooked coronavirus Success Stories

"It seems like some countries have figured out not only how to flatten their coronavirus curves, but also how to send them plunging downward.

From Slovenia to Jordan to Iceland, governments took early action to impose lockdowns, test and trace thousands of people, isolate the sick, encourage social distancing and preventive measures like mask wearing, and communicate honestly with the public.

Those interventions curbed the number of new confirmed Covid-19 cases and deaths, allowing leaders to reopen schools and businesses and reintroduce a sense of normalcy into everyday life. Some are now reporting no new confirmed cases or deaths.

In effect, they followed the prescribed playbook for such a pandemic, and — surprise, surprise — it worked."

There seems to be two distinct concepts when looking for constants of the countries that did the best fighting COVID:

• The governments had a strong sense of urgency.
• The citizens understood that society depends on responsibilities and don't only cry about their "rights".

Ironic that the counties that took away the most rights and the citizens that sacrificed their rights the most are also the countries that will have citizens' rights and finances restored much faster in the future.

[Kay King]

I thought Mark's number of 'New York poppulation density' didn't sound right - he may be using density of the STATE but one reason NY was so hard hit (besides closing almost a week after many other statesI) is the population density of New York City.

The city's population density of 26,403 people per square mile

Manhattan's population density is 66,940 people per square mile

I am accustomed to seeing Asian university studients wearing masks - mainly in the winter months in the local groceries, etc. For them, it's a way of life.and may need to be more a way of life for some of us.

Interesting studies in human behavior - some who become 'mask police' - and I've seen a few keeping masks on even outdoors when they are the only person for 20 ft.

I do like that businesses are making hand sanitizers an wipes readily available and are cleaning their premises more often and more diligently. I wonder if blowing on the dice will still be allowed in casinos....

[socialentry]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I thought Mark's number of 'New York poppulation density' didn't sound right - he may be using density of the STATE but one reason NY was so hard hit (besides closing almost a week after many other statesI) is the population density of New York City.

The Mong Kok neighbourhood in Hong Kong has a population density of 340 k people in a square mile. It is the most populated place on earth.


I'm sure density has something to do with it, but it is not the primary reason.

[Medon]

Originally Posted by derekwong28

Looks like Italy is going to follow China by quarantining an entire province.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51787238

All schools here in Hong Kong have been closed since late January till April 20th. It is a massive headache for us and other parents. I am thinking of sending my younger daughter for a visit to her aunt in Germany for 3 weeks. But it looks likely that a major outbreak will happen in Germany. If that happens, she may be quarantined for 14 days when she gets back to Hong Kong.

China have come out strongly. They have succeeded in keeping the virus in check. What we don't know is the havoc phase 2 will cause.

[Profit Traveler]

In Headlines today.....New Hotspots in Multiple States.

I hope my fellow Warriors take good care of themselves. If you walking around like everything normal you are in for a rude awakening.

[Kay King]

If you are still hiding in your basement, you have your own set of problems.

[perryny]

So much for no large gatherings...

[Kurt]

There's a number of variables. Population density is one. The people in Hong Kong wore masks but the people in NY didn't.

Neither the people in LA or NY wore masks but the pop density is greater in NY. It is also warmer in LA.

There could be other factors like age, percent of smokers, air pollution, health care, social distancing, local gov, etc. Even sex may be a factor. In S Korea younger women were more greatly infected than in Italy where the people were far more likely to be older males. There is some evidence women may be at less risk than men.

There's a lot we don't know, but there's also a lot we do. I hope there are people that have access to all these numbers and are running them.

I also think it is wise to have contingency plans, including on national, local and individual levels. What's Plan B just in case we might be wrong? To be honest I think we may even want to come up with a Plan C.

[Profit Traveler]

Originally Posted by Kay King

If you are still hiding in your basement, you have your own set of problems.

Pool Party at Kay's.

[Mark Singletary]

Originally Posted by Kay King

If you are still hiding in your basement, you have your own set of problems.

True, but:

Some people are still supposed to stay at home because of government orders
Some people (older, health issues, etc.) should still stay at home as much as possible until things clear up more
Some employers are moving to remote work permanently

So, phrasing it like these weird people still hiding in their basement is wrong, in my opinion. In general, yes it's time to get on with life as best you can under the circumstances but there are legit exceptions.

My mom was heckled for wearing a mask at Walmart. She is older and is very susceptible.

Mask shaming (on either side) and other similar shaming help nothing. I predict there will be riots and civil unrest over this type of shaming. The trouble has already started. For example, some businesses won't let "pu****s" wearing masks into their restaurants.

Mark

[Dan Riffle]

I'm amazed at the cavalier attitude out there. It's still out there and we still don't have a legitimate treatment. Just because we reopened the economy doesn't mean anything has changed.

I was talking to my doctor the other day. He said there's simply no way to know who's going to be hammered by COVID and who's going to breeze through it. He's seen a 92 year old with numerous health issues basically shrug it off like a 2 day cold and a 30 year old healthy gym rat woman spend nearly three weeks in the hospital. Of the dozens of cases he's personally seen, he can't determine any pattern or predictor of severity other than age.

You can have your pool parties. I'm staying home, thank you very much. By the end of this, my landscaping and cornhole skills are going to be world class.

[Kay King]

I haven't seen any 'mask shaming' here except a few stories about 'mask police' who seem to want to dictate to others.. Most of the people I've seen in stores have masks on.

I think the crowds at water parks and beaches over the holiday weekend in the US last week was really stupid...but their choice.

I agreed with shutting down long enough to get a 'handle' on the pandemic - I've been a proponent of re-opening since the end of April....BUT... anyone who feels at risk can stay home. I think that's smart - but also smart to allow people back to work who need to work.

The protests this week (a/k/a riots) sort of undo any good that was done by 'social distancing' and 'mask wearing'. If people willingly expose themselves - can't help them. Will those cities see a spike in covid cases? Don't know - but will be interesting to watch.


At the horse farm rides are 'by appt only' this summer - and people are informed over the phone that those of us working with the horses do not wear masks. We are distanced - we are outdoors - anyone who doesn't like it can stay away. We've now seen quite a few young children who are AFRAID to remove their mask - outdoors with no people around them. Not good.

[Kurt]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I haven't seen any 'mask shaming' here except a few stories about 'mask police' who seem to want to dictate to others.. Most of the people I've seen in stores have masks on.
.

"Mask shaming" is one part of it. There has been other shaming right in this very thread. Here it is:

Originally Posted by Kay King

If you are still hiding in your basement, you have your own set of problems.

How do you know that person "hiding in their basement" isn't protecting a child on chemo or an 75 year old diabetic mother:? Who are you to claim someone is "hiding"?


I would say those that don't wear masks in public places have a real sense of self importance and ZERO concept of personal responsibility. You wear a mask to protect others. You wear a mask because the person behind the register has to work 8 hours indoors coming in contact with 100s of others so you can buy your almond milk.

The "wear a mask if you want to" crowd is so full of BS. How about I put up a target on our shared fence and fire my 50 calibre rifle at it? Who cares if it endangers your home. If you don't want to shoot a 50 calibre just don't do it.


What's your contingency plan for reopening? Are you going to test anyone? What threshold do you have for shutting things down if things lose the "handle" on the pandemic?

If masks don't work why do the countries that wear them have lower death rates? If masks don't work why do medical professionals wear them and have for years? Aren't they the ones that know best?

We have 100,000 deaths with a lock down. How many are acceptable and do you expect without a lockdown?

BTW you also claimed COVID was just media hype, remember?

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kurt

BTW you also claimed COVID was just media hype, remember?

To be fair, many of us shrugged the response to the virus off as panic in the beginning. Me included.

I was wrong. But nearly everyone was wrong in the beginning of this. Nobody can predict a pattern when something like this is new.

[socialentry]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

To be fair, many of us shrugged the response to the virus off as panic in the beginning. Me included.

I was wrong. But nearly everyone who listened to only American news was wrong in the beginning of this.

*cough cough*
Fixed for you.

[myob]

Originally Posted by socialentry

*cough cough*
Fixed for you.

Ahem. There were intentional systematic repression and ongoing coverups since the very beginning and at the highest levels of the CCP within the point of origin. Asymptomatic carriers were encouraged to flee to major cities before this was ever publicly acknowledged.

[Jeffery]

When I saw this headline I had some reservations. First, the headline's first word is "Experts", yet the article was recently published by The Washington Post of which may be a reliable source?

"Experts say coronavirus might never go away as U.S. death toll reaches 100,000" May 27, 2020

While reading the article I did not see any reference to the "Experts", however at he beginning of the works is another link to a relevant article by The Washington Post that entails more details and more importantly lists the "Experts". This seems to support the lead article.

Coronavirus may never go away, even with a vaccine May 27, 2020

Both good reads.

[Profit Traveler]

I think now it's all about the Vaccine. Brilliant minds working all over the world.

And "The Fall."

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

I think now it's all about the Vaccine. Brilliant minds working all over the world.

And "The Fall."

the fall is happening .. the vaccine won't matter in a few months ..don't really think it is going to be a fall.. just a removal of the oppressive regime in all parts of government that had no intent to give the righ and freedoms back o people once they shredded the constitution .."temporerily "

so are we looking ar french revolution.. russian revolution.. or arab spring ..

what bloody period of history are we going to repeat ..forget the corona virus at this point .. we need to restore a functioning economy ..or watch a growing number of people just rip everything down they can ..