[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Exactly. We don't (and can't as yet) know what the long term effects are going to be for those who "recover" from it.

Death isn't always the worst option. A lot of the youngsters who believe they are invincible are going to be in for a surprise when they lose a limb or need a new set of lungs or now have to worry about their heart and clotting.

How about the loss of brain function? That ones pretty scary to me.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by DWolfe

You could be right, it maybe a countrywide law. I just assumed that my Dad was not in the hospital when he past they rushed him there. That's where they asked us the immediate family.

Thank You

I could also be wrong. After my last post about this I did some more searching. Amazingly little is online about who gets an autopsy and when it is mandatory.

I couldn't get a clear concise answer. I was going by what I was told years ago, and by a short article I read on a medical website.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Maybe I would.

After all, somebody has to be first, and it doesn't have to be the US.

Russia has scientists. Every country has scientists. I'm assuming every country has researchers working on a vaccine.

The reports I saw says that Russia has a vaccine. It also says that the vaccine isn't thoroughly tested.

I don't believe anything I hear from Russia. Just as I don't believe anything I hear about Russia. Propaganda is a global tool. It's used by everyone.

If the US got some of the vaccine to test, I think we might uses it after a few months of trials. But who knows?

Yup. It is. On the other hand, I've lost count of the times I've been there, so I don't need the propaganda to know it's not in my best interest to trust them. Ever.

If you don't die after giving it a try, count me in.

[Dan Riffle]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

How about the loss of brain function? That ones pretty scary to me.

Claude's safe here. Negative brain function isn't possible.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Kay King

In July in the US 25 children died of covid-19 related illness. In the same month, 140+ children died of abuse/neglect. One does not cancel or excuse the other but sometimes you have to step back to gain perspective. The 'news' is the kids had 'no underlying conditions' but do we know that? How many times have we seen high school sports stars who died unexpectedly due to an 'undiagnosed' heart or health problem?

That number, this early into the situation is a big fat red flag. I'm sorry that you don't see or understand that.

I forget who, maybe you in this thread mentioned how can we say its the beginning. That's simple.

There is a finite amount of people on the planet and we know approximately how many of them have the disease right now and we know based on how infectious it is how many will get it, assuming it follows past behaviors of other monitored virus spread.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by perryny

What? No. As long as the number of people who continue to get sick and die keeps going up, we are doing the wrong thing.

And based on what's going on across the country right now, the number is just going to keep going up. Big time.

You're convinced we're making progress?

yes we are making progress ..as those the number of people dieing is lower than it was a few months ago .more and more people are testing positive because of better testing.. and the percent of people who get it and die is going down .. that is progress

victory will be when people stop getting real sick and stop dying all together ..

[Kay King]

Some of the innovation we've seen is amazing but one of the most useful for parents might be on the site below and ones like it. A neighbor's little boy was wearing one the other day....he doesn't seem to mind this 'shield' at all but would NOT keep a mask on. (not affiliated in any way)



https://littlelivesppe.com/

[perryny]

Originally Posted by Odahh

yes we are making progress ..as those the number of people dieing is lower than it was a few months ago .more and more people are testing positive because of better testing.. and the percent of people who get it and die is going down .. that is progress

victory will be when people stop getting real sick and stop dying all together ..

I really hope this post holds up in a few weeks. But with the schools opening, giant rallies rolling and a big convention season coming up, well... we'll see.

[Princess Balestra]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

How about the loss of brain function? That ones pretty scary to me.

Rest assured, Poppet, if'n I can make it through, evrywan can.

Mom says I only got ears so's lazy bees don't gotta strain 'emselves makin' hunny.

Hey, but what is intrestin' right now is how we gotta fix this Corona up as hoomans togethah.

Cos she don't care who she feeds on ... don't care even what abuse names you got thrown atchya jus' bcs you whoevah you are, wherevah you are.

We all foddah togethah!

Thing is, if we are to look in on the history of ideas, one thing is for certain.

(My jokesy self demands WF inclood strikeout font here so I can whimsically proffer 'We Don't Nevah Know What We Doin'.)

Invention kinda coalesces accordin' to pulses an' throbs.

Which means ... search for vaccines gotta be on — or what evrywan doin'?

Way I see it, balance rn is between scale of emergency an' vigor of testin'.

Othahwise we all drinkin' bleach bcs we so spooked.

Gotta hope a solootion is comin' bcs the science guys got intel from down the ages to beat back our momentary feebleness.

Jus' depends on whethah we runnin' with science as a community or science as a niche bloodsport, I guess.

To quote Mama Cherishment's famous 1927 breastfeedin' manual, "ladies seeking to offer up their succour too early run the risk that the infant will gag, suffocate, or rebel. But if the appropriate time is allowed, and the infant is presented with feeding options from both available sources in strict rotation, he may grow to be strong and hearty, resilient to all manner of pox."

My view?

Boobie science nurtures, Klutz science kills.

[whateverpedia]

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Negative brain function isn't possible.

The fact that you continue to post proves otherwise.

[Kay King]

Dubai International Airport (DXB) is the first in the world to deploy a K-9 unit trained to detect coronavirus cases amid the global health crisis, with the dogs conducting over 400 tests in recent weeks at a reported accuracy of 91%.

The world’s busiest air hub for international travel dispatched the K-9 unit for quick COVID-19 testing earlier this month, SF Gate reports. All persons arriving in the United Arab Emirates must be tested for the viral disease prior to departure, and show proof of negative results for entry.

The world busiest 'air hub' is Atlanta followed closely by China - and THEN Dubai. 91% accuracy may well be higher than some of the tests are.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Kay King

The world busiest 'air hub' is Atlanta followed closely by China - and THEN Dubai. 91% accuracy may well be higher than some of the tests are.

Do the dogs test each other?

[Kay King]

Good question - didn't say.

[Profit Traveler]

So what have we all done individually to stop the spread of Coronavirus?

Some scream reopen...does that stop spread of Coronavirus?

Some use any platform they are on or control to forward their own agenda whatever that may be. Does that stop spread of Coronavirus?

Some in this thread say it is fake...does that stop spread of Coronavirus?

What do you think will stop the spread of Coronavirus?

And if anyone wants to ask me what I have done....just listen to Scientists and implement their suggestions who are as expert as anyone can possibly be on Coronavirus... pretty much.

[Declan O Flaherty]

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

And if anyone wants to ask me what I have done....just listen to Scientists and implement their suggestions who are as expert as anyone can possibly be on Coronavirus... pretty much.

Which Scientists should we listen to? The ones they put on telly? Remember, boys and girls, telly scientists told you smokes didn't lead to cancer.

I could list hundreds, maybe even THOUSANDS of scientists and Doctors that have called B.S. on these telly scientists and Doctors. I'll listen to a scientist with MORE to lose by revealing the truth, than a telly scientist who has MORE to gain by hiding it.

This virus has already been debunked as a scam. You all just haven't woken up yet. You may never wake up. Confirmation bias is strong in this thread.

[Mark Singletary]

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

So what have we all done individually to stop the spread of Coronavirus?

Some scream reopen...does that stop spread of Coronavirus?

Some use any platform they are on or control to forward their own agenda whatever that may be. Does that stop spread of Coronavirus?

Some in this thread say it is fake...does that stop spread of Coronavirus?

What do you think will stop the spread of Coronavirus?

And if anyone wants to ask me what I have done....just listen to Scientists and implement their suggestions who are as expert as anyone can possibly be on Coronavirus... pretty much.

The other day I was going to post something like, "if you were president what would you do differently".

The thing is many seem to have their favorite scientists. Just because someone is on the national Coronavirus task force doesn't make them better than a private doctor or researcher I would say. But if we are going to take all the task force doctor's words as gospel, we can now listen to Dr. Atlas who has a different approach to fighting the problem. Or do we not listen to him or Birx because they are political appointees and we don't agree with what they say?

Sweden didn't lock down and they are doing much better than us. So, why not follow Sweden's example?

Monday Birx said she wishes we would have locked down like Italy where people couldn't leave their homes. Now Italy has a bunch of new cases and announced new restrictions on Tuesday.

So, who do we listen to? Which country is the great example? They all, even the ones that we've admired, have had their setbacks. Which scientist is right?

My opinion is that no one knows what they are doing. The virus morphs, we can't control people's actions 24 hours a day unless we jail them (and even then that doesn't control everything or there would never be prison fights), we don't have a vaccine (and up to half of the US citizens wouldn't take it if we did), etc.

Then you've got the testing which is only good for the moment you take the test. You could take the test and literally as soon as they finished swabbing, get infected by the nursing staff or someone in the waiting room or on the way home. If your test came back positive, you would know you have a problem. But if it came back negative, that only means you weren't infected 2 days ago, but you are now because of the waiting room.

Those that claim testing is the way to solve the problem may be half right. But it would require daily or more often testing if a person weren't in quarantine to be accurate.

The commonsense way going forward, in my opinion, is:

1. Quit saying we are doing so great when there are still problems.

2. Quit attacking the people that are doing what they can to fix things and #1 mostly goes away. Quit wishing we were like New Zealand or Hong Kong or whereever because we aren't. - even if it's because of our laws and the way our country is set up. These first two items are all about politics and politics makes it all many times worse.

3. Social distance and wear a mask when you can't.

4. Check into testing if you have symptoms. I think the people being denied testing are mostly the asymptomatic ones.

5. If you are sick with any symptoms, stay home, get checked, etc. Quarantine for 14 days. Make sure people can't be fired due to this.

6. Go to work, shop, play, etc. keeping the above in mind.

7. Be fair with the rules. If people at a church have limited attendance, then every other place and event should too. If people can legally go to a rally, they can go to a football game. If Walmart can open, then a mom and pop store can open. Funerals of famous people can't be attended if funerals of common folk can't be attended. I'm only talking about laws/executive orders limiting movement/gathering.

8. If positive, do your best to help with contact tracing.Then go into quarantine, even away from other family members for a couple of weeks. This is harder for children though.

9. Consider fines or more for those breaking the laws BUT they have to be fair across the board. 50 people is 50 people no matter the cause or purpose of the event. This is a local or state decision.

10. Have the option for remote school and remote work for those who are in the bad health categories or who just don't want to go. Otherwise, open them up according to the rules above.

11. Quit letting people out of prison because of this if social distancing and masks work. If they don't, then quit telling the rest of the population they do. In some cases, masks may not be good (turn it into a noose or a weapon or whatever) so put them in solitary for 14 days.

12. Subject people coming into the country to a 14-day quarantine with or without testing. The government may should help with the expense of this but it should be required. This includes people who come in in any way plane, ship, foot. The scientists say 14 days should do it right?

13. Let private businesses determine whether they have a mask or social distancing policy (as long as their rules follow the government's.) Some people are saying to say to Walmart that you have a health condition (even though you don't) because you want the freedom to not wear a mask. Let them decide and kick people out if they wish without being afraid of the ADA.

14. Stop encouraging discord among the people with mask reporting phone lines and things like that. We are already so divided we don't need any more of this. But, make sure people follow the rules as above.

That would be how I would start. I think. It may all change by this afternoon.

Mark

Edit: 15. Look into all drugs that may provide treatment without political bias.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

Which Scientists should we listen to? The ones they put on telly? Remember, boys and girls, telly scientists told you smokes didn't lead to cancer.

I could list hundreds, maybe even THOUSANDS of scientists and Doctors that have called B.S. on these telly scientists and Doctors. I'll listen to a scientist with MORE to lose by revealing the truth, than a telly scientist who has MORE to gain by hiding it.

This virus has already been debunked as a scam. You all just haven't woken up yet. You may never wake up. Confirmation bias is strong in this thread.

I'm glad you live in Ireland.
Thanks for the laugh.

[Kay King]

There are too many voices - with too many opinions - too many 'predictions' by those looking for attention. Far too much of the 'blame game' - finger pointing, rehashing, etc. It's normal - but paying attention to it isn't good for you in my opinion.

It is a problem if you try to keep up with what everyone is saying - what everyone thinks - the latest prediction - the latest warnings - the not-very-scientific studies of a few dozen cases. It's not healthy physically or mentally IMO.

What do you think will stop the spread of Coronavirus?

TIME

The virus will mutate and weaken as more people gain some level of immunity....scientists will eventually KNOW whether we develop immunity or not - and whether it lasts or not (at this point some say 'yes' - some say 'no' - some say 'maybe').

My own family has taken precautions since the beginning - we aren't listening to experts daily or even weekly - we aren't debating with friends and family - we are just using common sense to protect ourselves.

What we have accomplished during these months is amazing (to us, at least). When you stop going out - stop having people over - stop going shopping or to entertainment venues...and stay home...you have TIME.
When you work on your computer at home all day - you tend to shut down the tech stuff at quitting time.

For 2-3 years My son has talked about building a pole barn - and about planting a wildflower garden and trying a small vegetable garden....there was just never time to get it done or do the planning...always a good reason to put it off till later.

We now have 300 FEET of a 3 foot wide wildflower border along two sides of the fence in the back yard. It is blooming like crazy and has been blooming now for about 6 weeks. We finalized location and plans for a pole barn - the excavation work was completed yesterday and the building will begin next week. The 'digger guy' said his company is super busy now and most of his customers say it's because they finally have time to planning and oversight of projects they've put off in the past.

That doesn't fit with the common vision of people off work and starving - and I know there are many people worrying about their next rent or meals. But this is another side that isn't mentioned...there are some business absolutely thriving in this challenging time.


Real estate here is still selling like crazy. When I pulled up available homes on realtor.com yesterday about 75% have 'pending' sales. That is not normal sales volume. The home and 40 acres across the road from us just sold after only a few weeks on the market - and new owners are doing some remodeling, landscaping, etc. Tradespeople - builders, landscapers, electricians, plumbers, etc - seem to be doing a good business here these days.


My son and d-in-law planted a small (10-15) raised bed with heirloom tomatoes and various peppers - I grew my usual herb garden but double the size and the variety. Once the barn is completed the excavators will be back as we decided to add a large pond at the back of the property.

We've spent little time on social media - working at home seems to encourage us to shut down the computers at the end of the work day and we've spent much more time watching sunsets and using the firepit on cool evenings.

Many of the university students have come back into town even though they are taking virtual classes. University dorms are closed so local rental agents are busy and people who own student rentals are breathing sighs of relief.

I worry that more people are suffering - physically and mentally - due to worry, fear and the feeling of life being out of control...than they are from the virus at this point. Fear of losing your business, your home, not being able to feed or educate your children - is very real. But the fear of the unknown - the 'monsters in the dark corner or under the bed' can be just as damaging to mental health.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

I could list hundreds, maybe even THOUSANDS of scientists and Doctors that have called B.S. on these telly scientists and Doctors.

No you couldn't. Whenever there is a health crisis, it turns into a political battle..usually between the government and a company, but in this case between political parties.

On the entire planet, every country is taking the virus very seriously, including ours...except for a small group of deniers. And that group is shrinking.

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

This virus has already been debunked as a scam.
[/B]

Tell that to the families of the 174,000 people in the US alone....or the 777,000 victims worldwide...that this virus has killed.

If it's a scam, it's a damn convincing one. And the entire world is in on it.

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

Which Scientists should we listen to? The ones they put on telly? Remember, boys and girls, telly scientists told you smokes didn't lead to cancer.

That's a good example. The entire medical profession telling us that smoking is a cause of cancer, and a few paid doctors denying what the entire planet knew.

But this was a bad example for you.

Because you are part of the small handful of deniers.

[Frank Donovan]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

If it's a scam, it's a damn convincing one. And the entire world is in on it.

I'm trying to think who'd perpetrate this scam and who'd stand to benefit.

Home delivery businesses?
Conference software developers?
Mask manufacturers?
International Dissociation of Hermits?

[whateverpedia]

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

This virus has already been debunked as a scam.

SRSLY?!?!?! SMFH.

BTW, I saw a good quote which provided food for thought:

The speed and haste that billionaires want you to go back to work proves one thing, and one thing only:

They don't make their money - you do.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

SRSLY?!?!?! SMFH.

BTW, I saw a good quote which provided food for thought:

I'm not joking, I used to tell this story to new hires...

"We had a new guy, on the day he started work...I took him for a drive, into the most prestigious part of town...on the nicest street....and we drove into the circular driveway of the most expensive home.

I showed him the expansive lawn, the manicured trees, and the huge beautiful home in front of him. And I told him.....If you work hard, show up early, work until late every night...and never stop...someday all of this can be mine".

Nobody ever laughed. But I did. My wife made me stop telling that story.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I'm not joking, I used to tell this story to new hires...

"We had a new guy, the day he started work...I took him for a drive, into the most prestigious part of town...on the nicest street....and we drove into the circular driveway of the most expensive home.

I showed him the expansive lawn, the manicured trees, and the huge beautiful home in front of him. And I told him.....If you work hard, show up early, work until late every night...and never stop...someday all of this can be mine".

Nobody ever laughed. But I did. My wife made me stop telling that story.

I'm still laughing.
Also...
Smart wife.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

On the entire planet, every country is taking the virus very seriously, including ours...except for a small group of deniers. And that group is shrinking.



Tell that to the families of the 174,000 people in the US alone....or the 777,000 victims worldwide...that this virus has killed.


Because you are part of the small handful of deniers.

the group is shrinking do to darwinistic forces .. as they go around without masks and engage in activities that increase their change of getting the virus ..getting real sick and dying .. or having someone close to them die .

as for the joke .. that is a good one

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

Which Scientists should we listen to? The ones they put on telly? Remember, boys and girls, telly scientists told you smokes didn't lead to cancer.

I could list hundreds, maybe even THOUSANDS of scientists and Doctors that have called B.S. on these telly scientists and Doctors. I'll listen to a scientist with MORE to lose by revealing the truth, than a telly scientist who has MORE to gain by hiding it.

This virus has already been debunked as a scam. You all just haven't woken up yet. You may never wake up. Confirmation bias is strong in this thread.

"This virus has already been debunked as a scam. You all just haven't woken up yet. You may never wake up. Confirmation bias is strong in this thread."

Are you also a Flat Earther

Also, in an earlier post you told us you went through the virus yourself. So now your denying it as the flu?

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

I'm trying to think who'd perpetrate this scam and who'd stand to benefit.

Home delivery businesses?
Conference software developers?
Mask manufacturers?
International Dissociation of Hermits?

The Lone Ranger Impersonators club has had a huge surge in membership.

[socialentry]

Hey guys:

Do you want to see a real inconsistency?


If the wearing of a mask is an affront to liberty, which category do the laws enforcing the wearing of a shirt (or heaven forbid, * gasp* trousers) fall into?

[Profit Traveler]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

Who says the wearing of a mask is an affront to liberty?

Can't speak for Mark. I believe the take away is "proceed with due diligence and caution".

Yale also telling their incoming dorm students in a slightly different way...

The email also said students "should emotionally prepare for the fact that your residential college life will look more like a hospital unit than a residential college."

https://www.businessinsider.com/yale...can-get-2020-8

[whateverpedia]

Originally Posted by socialentry

If the wearing of a mask is an affront to liberty, which category do the laws enforcing the wearing of a shirt (or heaven forbid, * gasp* trousers) fall into?

What are trousers?

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

Yale also telling their incoming dorm students in a slightly different way...

The email also said students "should emotionally prepare for the fact that your residential college life will look more like a hospital unit than a residential college."

https://www.businessinsider.com/yale...can-get-2020-8

I don't see how "liberty" is involved. Do you? All I see is an Education Institution educating students as to changes and what may come.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by socialentry

Hey guys:

Do you want to see a real inconsistency?

If the wearing of a mask is an affront to liberty, which category do the laws enforcing the wearing of a shirt (or heaven forbid, * gasp* trousers) fall into?

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

What are trousers?

Just another way a social engineer lets slip their age.
Dammit man we're good.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by socialentry

Hey guys:

Do you want to see a real inconsistency?


If the wearing of a mask is an affront to liberty, which category do the laws enforcing the wearing of a shirt (or heaven forbid, * gasp* trousers) fall into?

if i am waling down the street without a mask on or anywhere outside 10 feet away from anyone ..there is no risk to me of cating the virus from someone or infecting someone else if i am not coughing and sneezing .. in the direction of someone who doesn't have a mask ..


where as going in doors into a public space with a number of other people ..those risks are far greater and mask are needed and required ..

[Profit Traveler]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

I don't see how "liberty" is involved. Do you? All I see is an Education Institution educating students as to changes and what may come.

Well actually my point was if you damn near have to scare the hell out of kids why are you opening.

Why not online. And unless they want to be doctors or something of that nature they should be learning here at the forum anyway.

Went to Gym today it just opened...I was only one wearing mask. A mask getting sweaty or no mask what a decision.. like standing in lines I always imagine someone sneezing. Do not want to have regrets of not having one on. .I will stick with one and monitor the vitals. What a life we are living.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Kay King

There are too many voices - with too many opinions - too many 'predictions' by those looking for attention. Far too much of the 'blame game' - finger pointing, rehashing, etc. It's normal - but paying attention to it isn't good for you in my opinion.
).
I worry that more people are suffering - physically and mentally - due to worry, fear and the feeling of life being out of control...than they are from the virus at this point. Fear of losing your business, your home, not being able to feed or educate your children - is very real. But the fear of the unknown - the 'monsters in the dark corner or under the bed' can be just as damaging to mental health.

My brother is 49 permanently disabled and needs pain treatment every month and shots in his back every few months ..and hasn't been able to get any since the lockdown .

and non of the support groups he wen to have been their .. and the over the phone calls with with his shink ..and he watches the news all day ..which suck for me cause i here it in the next room ..so he is on the edge of being suicidal .. because he is in so much pain ..and can't get his treatments for another month ..


so there are are a lot of people with pre existing mental problems who can't get the help they need with the way the lockdown is ..slowing the or hindering the needed treatment

[Kay King]

hasn't been able to get any since the lockdown

Why? That's an honest question - are doctors not seeing patients? Are hospitals closed? Where does he usually get pain meds and shots?

I ask because I had TWO elective surgeries in July and had no problem scheduling them, visiting the doctor (masks everywhere), getting the surgeries and follow up appointments. These surgeries were scheduled in mid-June - not a long standing appointment. Had paind meds (good ones) after the surgeries and no problems getting those either.

Our closest neighbor - and friend - has continued his chemo treatments and hospital stays for procedures throughout this pandemic - and his morphine, etc. are available to him.

Is it the difference in location? Treatment facility or clinic that is closed? What reason is your brother given?

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Why? That's an honest question - are doctors not seeing patients? Are hospitals closed? Where does he usually get pain meds and shots?

I ask because I had TWO elective surgeries in July and had no problem scheduling them, visiting the doctor (masks everywhere), getting the surgeries and follow up appointments. These surgeries were scheduled in mid-June - not a long standing appointment. Had paind meds (good ones) after the surgeries and no problems getting those either.

Our closest neighbor - and friend - has continued his chemo treatments and hospital stays for procedures throughout this pandemic - and his morphine, etc. are available to him.

Is it the difference in location? Treatment facility or clinic that is closed? What reason is your brother given?

he had a surgery last week . and had the other stuff scheduled for this month..then they put the pain treatments off for a month ..which helped set of his depression ..he goes through the VA for his treatments .. so that was part of it ..

[im1217]

The best time to go all in! The pandemic has helped me focus and 2-3x my income, eat MUCH healthier (including some intermittent fasting) AND build stronger business, family and friend relationships. Greatest time ever to STEP back and REFLECT. Make use of it!!!

[Declan O Flaherty]

I posted a comment in this thread about 4 months ago saying that Sweden will show the world what should have been done by all Governments.

Sweden, for all intents and purposes, has defeated COVID-19. And they dd it without ruining MILLIONS of peoples lives or breaking the trust with their peoples. They did it without masks, without lock downs and without a vaccination.

Back in April they got a big spike in deaths from nursing homes (the one mistake was to not protect the vulnerable - the flu is deadly to older people. Always has been).

Since April the deaths have been steadily declining. Now, almost no one is dying from covid. The 'infection cases' are also declining. Sweden is now close to herd immunity.

This was predicted by non-telly scientists from the beginning.

Sweden, as predicted, would, and did, create a big problem for the governments who told their citizens that lock downs, masks, and vaccines are ESSENTIAL to defeat the virus.

That clearly wasn't, and still isn't true. If they helped, we would all be wearing masks, social distancing and forced to take a vaccine every single year.

Of course, that meant there was a propaganda initiative set up to discredit Sweden and their science and education based approach to covid.

They told you that Sweden has the 5th highest death rate in the world. But let's break down why this is misleading...

New Your City. New Jersey. New York. Massachusetts. Connecticut. San Marino. Louisiana. Rhode island. Belgium. District of Columbia. Peru. Mississippi. Andorra. Michigan. Illinois. Spain. UK. Italy.

You know what these places have in common? They all locked down. You know what else they have in common? They have more deaths per million than Sweden, who didn't lock down, and who didn't mandate masks.

Back in May-Sweden's biggest daily newspaper analyzed a pair of models inspired by the imperial college of London study, which predicted that Sweden's ICU's would expire before May ended, and nearly 100,000 people would die from COVID by July.

By any reasonable metric, Sweden has done rather well don't you think?

The death rate in Sweden is not the point anyway. The real story is that they DEFEATED the virus without lock downs, masks, or vaccinations. Proof that none of those things were necessary.

Governments who locked down have, of course, used any excuse to bash Sweden. No way are they going to admit they got it wrong. So what did they do? It's predictable. They drove the original lie in even further, hence the wearing of masks now, when months ago at the height of the virus, it was a choice.

But here's the main point:
How many millions of lives have, and will be destroyed and lost due to the solution to the virus? Far more than the virus itself, right?

So now when you add up ALL the numbers, Sweden did better than almost EVERY country that locked down.

I said this 4 months ago. How is it possible that I was right, and the telly scientists were wrong?

In America you have what now, 40 million people out of work? How many suicides? How many drug and alcohol related deaths? How many abused spouses and children?

I could go on with the REAL devastation the so-called solution to this so-called deadly virus caused, and will continue to cause.

Oh, and since this covid thing came about, influenza deaths have dropped considerably. How did that happen?

We know they are cooking the numbers. They admitted it themselves. The question is, why all the lies? Why cook the numbers if the virus is already so deadly? How did they consistently get everything wrong from the beginning?

Were they blind sighted?

I don't think so. Sweden wasn't. Non-telly Doctors and Scientists weren't. It seems the only people who were wrong from the beginning, were telly Doctors and scientists, main stream media, and politicians; the very people who gained the MOST from the narrative they pushed, while many non-telly Doctors and Scientists put their careers on the line by speaking out.

I never intended to hijack this thread to throw a spanner in the works. But at some point, you have to step back, look at all the inconsistencies the official narrative presents, and realize that the people we are supposed to listen to now, are the very same people who botched it all up from the start.

They either did it because they lied, or because they are incompetent. Either way, I have no desire to listen to another word from Doctors and Scientists who are either liars or incompetent.

The fact is, and it is a fact, if no one told you about this virus, you wouldn't even know it existed.

Just think about that.

And no, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, unless a conspiracy theorist is a person who questions the statements and motives of known liars.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

.

Hey! ...a few of my friends have died from covid.
Not some underlying condition.

AND a lot of my family in NY and NJ have wound up in intensive care due to covid.

So now what .... are you calling me and my family a liar?

Are you saying were all so delusional that we will fake a sickness?

What exactly are you saying to me, my family and the people whom I have lost so far?

[Dan Riffle]

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

Sweden

Your definitives are not so definitive.

https://www.newscientist.com/article...success-story/

[discrat]

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

The fact is, and it is a fact, if no one told you about this virus, you wouldn't even know it existed.

Just think about that.

And no, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, unless a conspiracy theorist is a person who questions the statements and motives of known liars.

One of the biggest lame ass statements I have heard in a long time. It's for real/ I have real friends who ( one) is now on the verge of death coming down with this dreaded disease.

Declan, I love and respect you and always have and always will but that still does not excuse this lame logic on your behalf

[Princess Balestra]

Sorry Flahsypops, but your frenzied desire to face front inadvertently reveals the worst kinda shimmyin'.

I draw here on The Exorcist for an example.

Gal in that show clearly disfigured by demons an' stuff.

Cos her head gowin' round an' round an' she coulda puked crocodiles less'n the guy with the ansah turned up an' subsequently made history kinda 1974 or sumthin'.

Only it is 2020 now an' we ain't chained to our beds.

(Prolly I would swap such a service for Netflix, but it gotta be decent.)

All I know is, I don't wanna spend no kinda cutesy moments with anywan whose head twirls at bizarrely focused random in ordah to impess upon all its superior powahs of undeniably exotic troothspeakin' which ain't actschwlly troo.

Call me stoopid — but I ain't frickin' stoopid.

Like Nietzschowah says, "To believe is to offer. To engage is to find some future for the hope."

I find your outlook downcast, scared, wrong, ignorant an' feeble.

But you OK
bcs evrywan figures
I a ditz!!!

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Your definitives are not so definitive.

https://www.newscientist.com/article...success-story/

so the people who point to much smaller countries with mostly one ethic group .

but the more one group wants to ignore .. who is at risk and what the numbers say an treat everyone like they are at risk ..and the 22 year old or the 12 year 0l..has the same risk as the 70 or 80 year old the worse the divide is




the usa has more of any risk group that the rest of the world figures is a risk group ..so we have many more elderly people in nursing homes and many more elderly .. and many more obese people obese with other risk factors .. and poor immigrants ..

but the usa wants to treat this like school age children and college students are at a high risk of dying from this .. .
sweden has a population of ten million the USA has 33 times as many people ..
so if we where doing as well as sweden that has 85000 infections 2805000 infections
and where they ha almost 5800 deaths we would have 191400 deaths

someone better at math than me correct my math .. because it looks like the usa has 2 as many cases comparatively but fewer deaths .. if you equalize the numbers ..because the USA is at 174000 deaths

[Jeffery]

https://www.newscientist.com/article...#ixzz6Vi4YYpm9

The article, thank you Dan, uses Sweden's own sources. There are no Telly Scientists sourced.

The point of the article is the architect of Sweden’s strategy, Chief Epidemiologist Anders Tegnell, disclosed that Sweden did not impose a compulsory lockdown policy whereas its neighbors did impose a compulsory lockdown policy. The end result was Sweden had far more deaths per capita than its neighbors.

While it is sometimes implied that Sweden didn’t have a lockdown, it did. It was just largely voluntary, with only a few legal measures such as a ban on gatherings of more than 50 people.


“Voluntary restrictions work as well as legal ones,” says the architect of Sweden’s strategy, chief epidemiologist Anders Tegnell.

You can't compare Sweden's data to the U.S. data owed to the differences between the two countries. You can only compare Sweden to is neighbors owed to the similarities. Even then, the results may be misleading according to sources in the article.

[Declan O Flaherty]

Will you choose to see it? Can you even make that choice? Cognitive dissonance is NOT something that just happens to other people. It's right in front of your eyes; has been since the start.

https://youtu.be/baIGCALuwjA

I told you all 4 months ago that Sweden will prove this to be a complete scam. Yes, the virus exists. I got a severe flu a couple years ago that anyone with underlying issues or over the age of life expectancy would struggle to deal with. It's called LIFE. It can suck. Get over it.


You still aren't listening.

How many lies before it becomes embarrassing to still listen to these people?

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

You still aren't listening.

How many lies before it becomes embarrassing to still listen to these people?

You still aren't listening.
How many people have to die before you get it?

[Dan Riffle]

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

Will you choose to see it? Can you even make that choice? Cognitive dissonance is NOT something that just happens to other people. It's right in front of your eyes; has been since the start.

https://youtu.be/baIGCALuwjA

Ben Swann is a known alt-right conspiracy theorist who works for RT America.

Who owns RT America, you might ask? The Russians.

Using him as a source is the opposing viewpoint version of your complaint against "telly doctors."

[Kay King]

I think you CAN compares Sweden with the US by looking at on simple statistic...


At this time



United States: 536 deaths per million


Sweden 574 deaths million


Belgium, Peru, UK, Spain, Italy had higher death rate than either US or Sweden.


Sweden did not shut down - have to wonder had it shut down at least for a time would the death rate have been lower? Maybe - but the economy would have been hurt as in the US.



There is no reason to 'right fight" on this issue - there is no winner. The risk at this point in the US is simply that people are tired of hearing about covid and worrying about it. The greater risk may be that we don't recognize when it is time to fully re-open the country.

[Dan Riffle]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I think you CAN compares Sweden with the US by looking at on simple statistic...


At this time



United States: 536 deaths per million


Sweden 574 deaths million


Belgium, Peru, UK, Spain, Italy had higher death rate than either US or Sweden.


Sweden did not shut down - have to wonder had it shut down at least for a time would the death rate have been lower? Maybe - but the economy would have been hurt as in the US.



There is no reason to 'right fight" on this issue - there is no winner. The risk at this point in the US is simply that people are tired of hearing about covid and worrying about it. The greater risk may be that we don't recognize when it is time to fully re-open the country.

But Sweden did shutdown. It just wasn't mandated. The article I linked to explains it very well.

The risk is that people only seem to worry about COVID when it has directly affected them. Then all of a sudden they "get it."

Until then, it's a hoax or not that big a deal or "just the flu."

[Kay King]

I think that's true of seasonal flu as well. A LOT of people die of 'flu' every year but unless it is someone we know...we don't worry too much about it.


I do think there is a balancing point at which keeping businesses closed does more damage than is being done by the virus - hard to tell where that line is...but maybe Sweden got the timing right.



It is hard to compare the US with other countries where a central govt can mandate closures and precautions...because in a case like this our system of 50 states is not as easily managed or controlled.



You might need to compare Sweden's results with the results of New York or Florida or Georgia to have a more accurate view. Just a thought.