[Kay King]

I agree about masks working - and I wear them any time I'm out in the public. What I also see, though, is a number of people wearing the masks below their nose (what's the point?) and some who remove their masks after getting into a store. To me, these are people I would never want to know - because I wouldn't like them.


I know, too, it's easy to say 'school kids have minimal risk' - because your job is protecting YOUR kid. That's what good parents do. I'll admit I don't understand the willingness to allow kids to participate in contact sports but that seems to be more important in some regions than in school education is. Go figure.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Who is 'we'? Past 2 days in US new cases in the 40k range BUT more critically, deaths between 300-400 for two days. The death rate has been declining and taht critical to getting back to work. As the US opens up little by little we see spikes in new cases but the death rate has continued to decline little by little and that is great news.

I am ALL for working at home when and if it is possible for your job. My d-in-law is also a university employee - they tried going back to work by alternating weeks. She and her two assts would each 'put in' one week at the office every three weeks. After a month it wasn't any more efficient than working from home so she's working at home again. The VP's idea was someone would be there for 'emergencies' with computer systems but it was pointed out we live 10 minutes from her office so she can respond quickly if needed.

I think you are smart to consider YOUR age and circumstances and make decisions for what you are willing to do. I also hate the masks but I don't complain because so many workers are wearing masks 8 hrs a day on critical jobs that I can't whine about wearing a mask in public.

To say 'we have all learned to work from home' ignores the plight of tens of thousands of small businesses and employees who are NOT able to make money staying at home. At this point in the pandemic I don't believe either you or I have the right to decide what those people are allowed to do.

So while I agree with your take on what is best for you - and I decide my own level of risk as well - the stict lockdowns and limitations on businesses and schools has to end or we will create more problems than we solve.

As I've said several times in this thread - do what works for YOU but don't advocate for everyone else to stay home. Many cannot do that and feed their family....and studies now are showing the fear about opening schools is not the reality.

IMO we are at the point where the country needs to re-open while those most at risk need to stay sheltered until the danger is over as much as it ever will be. I go to the local large grocery and have to make my way around the large carts of the 'pickers' who are readying grocery lists for delivery and pickup. People ARE being careful but it's time to focus on our personal well being and allow other businesses the right to re-open and survive if they can. Some businesses re-opening now are quickly closing permanently as all customers are gone. The re-opening may be as painful this year as the closings were....


I know someone will now post stats of new cases and etc but my position is we are past the 'OMG - look what's happening!' stage and need to focus on 'how do we manage from here' that starts to move ahead again.

I know about it being best for me but really, going back to the office for just one day a week, what purpose does it serve. It's just a token gesture to promote a slight sense of normality, but the reality is it serves no purpose, is not required for getting the work done, so why should they implement it. I'm sure there are many office situations that do and can continue to function with out token efforts like this.

In this particular case we are talking about 7,500 employees in total putting themselves at a higher risk, and of course their spouse, family and friends.

[Kay King]

I think the most lasting difference after this pandemic may be the trend to working from home. It's been growing but employers have been skeptical, citing theoretical 'reasons' why it's not feasible for many employees.


This pandemic has proven work from home IS feasible for many employees - would save money for employers who could pay for less workspace - would cut traffic congestion and gasoline consumption (though that might be balanced by increased heat/air conditioning in the home.)


I think also this might create a new 'work method' of part time office and part time home for MANY employees That model would keep employees 'connected' to management and other staff yet still maintain most of the bennies of work at home.

[Mark Singletary]

I just came across this from the CDC about masks.

People who were infected in this study were asked questions about their previous 14 days of exposure. For example, had they gone to a restaurant or to church prior to their infection during the previous 14 days.

One of the questions was about face masks. 70% of those infected said that the 14 days prior they had always worn a mask and an additional 15% said they often wore a mask.

So, if the masks didn't protect them (assuming they really always or often wore a mask), are they protecting any of us?

Maybe Dr. Fauci was right before in his 60 Minutes interview.

While masks may block some droplets, Fauci said, they do not provide the level of protection people think they do.

I've wondered about that interview and what has changed since then. He, being a infectious disease expert, knows how these sorts of things spread. He knew about that before it started spreading. The science hasn't changed. One thing is that masks became political in a sense since then. We can blame all the idiots not wearing masks for our pain and fear. It's like a common enemy we can latch on to.

I know the official explanation is that they were afraid all the doctors wouldn't have masks. I agree with protecting frontline workers.

But if masks were always truly necessary for our protection, does this mean that Fauci and others were willing to let you and yours get infected and die to protect the doctors? In other words, if masks are needed, they purposefully lied and put all of us in danger with the lie. I'm not talking politicians here but the scientists and doctors. People that are still trusted and held up as the leaders against the virus.

Finally, if 70% of infected folks are always wearing a mask before getting infected, maybe it's time to think about the competing narratives and motives of what's being thrown our way. Is it all political? Is it just a good way to sell advertising? I've said before I wear masks and take all the other precautions. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but a lot of this seems politically driven or at least doesn't make sense to me.

Mark

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

I just came across this from the CDC about masks.

People who were infected in this study were asked questions about their previous 14 days of exposure. For example, had they gone to a restaurant or to church prior to their infection during the previous 14 days.

One of the questions was about face masks. 70% of those infected said that the 14 days prior they had always worn a mask and an additional 15% said they often wore a mask.

So, if the masks didn't protect them (assuming they really always or often wore a mask), are they protecting any of us?

Mark; You are using faulty logic. I didn't read the article, but it may have used the same faulty logic.

The number that wasn't given (because there is no way to know) is the number of people who wore a mask, and did not get infected.

That is the essential piece of information that would make this a good argument.

For example (a hypothetical example to show a point).

If 1,000,000 people wore masks, and 70 caught the virus anyway. And those 70 were part of a study of 100 people who are infected ......then 70% of the people who were infected wore masks. But nearly a million people who wore masks, did not get infected.

And it's entirely possible that wearing a mask kept 99% of the people who would have contracted the virus without a mask...from getting the virus.


The reason I point this out is that these are the kinds of arguments that get passed around as a logical argument.....

When in fact, they are not.

[Kay King]

That's the problem with interpreting studies and numbers - you can interpret by using the ones that fit your theories. Happens all the time.


My own personal theory is that in the end we may find that 'distancing' and sanitizing 'stations' are more effective than masks....but I could be wrong.


When traveling last week I noticed everyone I was with utilized almost every 'hand sanitizer' dispenser we walked past....and there were a lot of those. We agreed that's one protective measure that should be adopted permanently. My guess is many homes and businesses are cleaner now than they've ever been!



Personally, one thing I like about 'social distancing' is not being hugged by people I barely know or have just met. I also don't care for shaking hands so just saying 'hello, good to see you' is fine with me.

[Mark Singletary]

Good point that I didn't think of. This particular study only involved people with positive tests. There were control cases but that wouldn't go into your argument.

Mark

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Mark; You are using faulty logic. I didn't read the article, but it may have used the same faulty logic.

The number that wasn't given (because there is no way to know) is the number of people who wore a mask, and did not get infected.

That is the essential piece of information that would make this a good argument.

For example (a hypothetical example to show a point).

If 1,000,000 people wore masks, and 70 caught the virus anyway. And those 70 were part of a study of 100......then 70% of the people who were infected wore masks. But nearly a million people who wore masks, did not get infected.


The reason I point this out is that these are the kinds of arguments that get passed around as a logical argument.....

When in fact, they are not.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

My own personal theory is that in the end we may find that 'distancing' and sanitizing 'stations' are more effective than masks....but I could be wrong.


When traveling last week I noticed everyone I was with utilized almost every 'hand sanitizer' dispenser we walked past....and there were a lot of those. We agreed that's one protective measure that should be adopted permanently. My guess is many homes and businesses are cleaner now than they've ever been!

My own theory is that distancing is the core way to stop the spread.

But masks shorten that effective distance considerably.

The virus is spread primarily when someone sneezes, coughs, yells, sings, spits, or cheers....and the virus is then propelled through the air for some number of feet.

If two people are wearing masks, the number of feet you can safely be apart to dramatically decreases the rate of infection is reduced.

So distance is the key, but masks affect the distance required.


That's my theory based on my understanding of how viruses spread.

A woman just came in the store and refused to stand within 20 feet of me, even though I was wearing a mask, and so was she.

Before this Covid thing, it used to be 10 feet.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

My own theory is that distancing is the core way to stop the spread.

But masks shorten that effective distance considerably.

The virus is spread primarily when someone sneezes, coughs, yells, sings, spits, or cheers....and the virus is then propelled through the air for some number of feet.

If two people are wearing masks, the number of feet you can safely be apart to dramatically decreases the rate of infection is reduced.

So distance is the key, but masks affect the distance required.


That's my theory based on my understanding of how viruses spread.

A woman just came in the store and refused to stand within 20 feet of me, even though I was wearing a mask, and so was she.

Before this Covid thing, it used to be 10 feet.

"A woman just came in the store and refused to stand within 20 feet of me, even though I was wearing a mask, and so was she."

Must resist, but oh the temptation.

Product descriptions could be construed as distance learning. Sanitized binoculars should be a permanent feature in your store.

[DWolfe]

Speaking of Masks watched a few months ago when this was taking center stage. A Doctor in Singapore said the flu rate has been down. Since a large portion wear masks since the Sars case a few years back.

[star007]

I agree! School kids might be a low risk, But they are tremendous carriers, which means they might not get sick themselves, but they will transmit Covid-19 and other viruses like crazy and not even know it.

[star007]

Personally, I would not be concerned about someone who wanted to stand more than 6 feet away from me. I do not believe that social distancing alone is the answer, b/c one uncovered cough or sneeze can transmit germs more than 6 feet. That is where wearing the mask properly comes into play.
A mask covering both the mouth and nose contains germs that would otherwise be put in the breathing path of others. Both are recommended for good reasons and I abide by these recommendations.

[lanfear63]

Well, 730 new deaths in the US today, (so far) and 53,000 new infections.

Without a cure or vaccine this things just going to go on killing till it dies out or morphs into something else.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Well, 730 new deaths in the US today, (so far) and 53,000 new infections.

Without a cure or vaccine this things just going to go on killing till it dies out or morphs into something else.

Yup. I want to say something comforting, but I got nada.

At least you appear smart enough to stay alive, here's to your friends and family being smart too. Part of my family believes it's all fake and designed to screw up the election. UGGG! That wasn't hyperbole, I know a lot of people who have caught covid, and I bet twenty or so were 75 + years old, and it hardly slowed them down. So it's not all bad. I hope your work changes it mind and lets you work from home.

[Kay King]

I don't know anyone who has told me the pandemic is fake - though some are more concerned than others.


I have talked to people who seem to resent that covid-19 'has not been taken care of yet' and are looking for someone or something to blame.
We are so accustomed to 'customer service' - to having things broken and FIXED quickly. This just isn't one of those things - it will be over when it's over.


That's very hard for some people to accept - that there is no quick fix or quick answer - that we really don't know what will happen next. For myself I will not let my life be dictated by covid-19 - I take precautions but I'm getting on with life at the same time.

[Princess Balestra]

Been away from this conversayshwaahn for a while.

Like I am an exotically empowahed beholdah from Way Sweet Beyond Above.

(Which kinda I am, actschwlly — but this is more Flopout Smart than Dart a la Thrusto About.)

(Plus also, who needs parentheses in an emergency?)

Thing is, 2021 is 3 months closer now than howevah 2019 feels kinda backward.

I don't want no ****in' virus crappin' my horizons to dust ... an' neither does nowan.

But HERE is only troo exotica we got rn from which to juice on out..

*sobs*

Only prahblem I got with this arrangement is how me & Benedict Cumberbatch can't evah be no item.

If'n he wanted me, he would be straight ovah.

So ... where is the loser chump?

*sighs*

Relief now skips from my heart like zits fired into space by troubled teens.

Prolly this means ima fishly 'vailbl.

Hey, but that is OK bcs dontchya jus' kinda wanna kiss sumone?

Tellya, when the 2020s get gowin' like their roarin' forebears, ain't nuthin' nowan can do to redefine freedom more like we wanna.

Joims. Squoims. Toims.

[Mark Singletary]

As far as social distancing versus masks, it's interesting that the CDC's guidance is that masks are to protect other people and not ourselves. Recently I saw a statement from the CDC that said something like "at no time has the CDC ever indicated that masks protect the wearers." Several people in this thread, including me, have talked as if masks protect us. But apparently, they don't.

I guess that means that if someone was tested often and they knew they weren't infected, them not wearing a mask should be not be a big deal, right?

I wonder, then, why the news will mention the fact, almost in ridicule, that someone that doesn't wear a mask had it coming or similar. It's not them that is at fault, according to the CDC, but all the other people not wearing masks. Yet, famous people such as politicians, who get infected are ridiculed if they haven't been a mask wearer.

To not confuse anyone, the director of the CDC recently told Congress that wearing a mask was more of a protection than even a vaccine. Those of you waiting for a vaccine to go back to work or whatever, may reconsider holding out!

It seems like they'd have their stories straight by now.

I can't wrap my head around the fact that putting something over your mouth and nose doesn't keep you protected to some extent. But then I'm not a scientist. Just one of the many confusing things about this that doesn't make sense.

Mark

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I don't know anyone who has told me the pandemic is fake - though some are more concerned than others.

Lucky you. It appears as if a HUGE amount of Floridians thinks covid will end as soon as the election is over. That its all media inflated BS designed to bring down, you know who.

It's hard to grasp how ingrained and accepted that idea is here.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

I can't wrap my head around the fact that putting something over your mouth and nose doesn't keep you protected to some extent. But then I'm not a scientist. Just one of the many confusing things about this that doesn't make sense.

Mark

It does...to an extent and the more layers the more extent that it helps AND WOVEN cotton appears the best because its hairy. (That's assuming I understand what I read - sorry no link I read it off of one of the medical sites a few weeks ago.)

edit: I forgot to mention, its been coming out for the last week or so that the CDC was steam rolled
and bullied into changing valid medical advice into whats been published.

People go how dare the Chinese cdc withhold information and not be transparent, well it looks both
china and the usa ... and who knows how many other countries, did and are doing, the same thing.

[Kay King]

I've also read the more layers, the safer the mask is - they seldom mention...the more layers, the more difficult it is to beathe in the mask.


After trying several different masks, I use the regular disposable surgical masks exclusively - lighter - easier to breathe through and it's what people who work in doctor offices and pharmacies, etc are wearing.

[DWolfe]

The N-95 masks get harder to breath in as they go bad. Doctors get use to them, after awhile. Still have some left overs from a project awhile back. The N-95 are annoying to wear outdoors in the Summer going in and out of Grocery stores. Think the humidity has a lot to do with that.

Also some were donated to a local organization that tries to secure medical grade masks for nursing homes and other health care facility.

P-100's are for paint and tough to breath, but if that prevents getting the virus. It is worth it. Those are found in Automotive paint & House paints but the pandemic created a shortage of them. They have a charcoal cannister and a filter that attaches to that.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

As far as social distancing versus masks, it's interesting that the CDC's guidance is that masks are to protect other people and not ourselves. Recently I saw a statement from the CDC that said something like "at no time has the CDC ever indicated that masks protect the wearers." Several people in this thread, including me, have talked as if masks protect us. But apparently, they don't.

Mark; It's important to wear a mask...because it prevents you from spreading the virus, if you have it. It's to protect the people around you.

That's why everyone should wear them, when they are in groups. Masks prevent, pretty effectively, viruses from spreading out, if you sneeze, cough, yell, cheer, or speak.

They are much more effective at stopping water droplets (that carry the virus) from spreading from the mask wearer's mouth, than they are at keeping the mask wearer from breathing a virus in.

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

It seems like they'd have their stories straight by now.

The immunologists have been pretty straight forward from the beginning. Masks reduce the spread of the virus, from the person wearing the mask. The mask helps protect the people around the mask wearer, not the mask wearer themselves.

Sometimes these things can sound confusing when the people you are listening have a vested interest in making them sound confusing.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I don't know anyone who has told me the pandemic is fake - though some are more concerned than others.

I've heard and seen the complete spectrum. (Mostly customers)

I've heard people say;

it's a fake virus
It's the flu
Nobody is dying from it
It's all gone now. We're in the clear.
The media is blowing it all out of proportion.

all the way to a few people who wouldn't get out of their car...or roll down the window. They drove up, and had me open their trunk, take out their vacuum cleaner...and then talk to me on the phone.

I have had a couple of people wearing masks that wouldn't get within 20 feet of me, even though I wear a mask too.

Other than having a close loved one die from this. I think it depends entirely on who you listen to.

Some "news" sources have a vested interest in making this sound as scary as possible. And other "News" sources play it down to less than a flu.

Originally Posted by Kay King

After trying several different masks, I use the regular disposable surgical masks exclusively - lighter - easier to breathe through and it's what people who work in doctor offices and pharmacies, etc are wearing.

Same here. A very minor inconvenience. They don't affect my breathing , and they are cheap. The ones the doctors wear on TV shows.


We have a sign in our window that asks people to wear a mask "For your protection and others". We have seen people look at the sign and get back in their car and drive away. So there is a cost.

[Jeffery]

Texas teen wins $25,000 for creating possible treatment for COVID-19 Oct. 16, 2020 ksat.com

Excerpt:

Anika Chebrolu was one of 10 total finalists in this year’s 3M Young Scientist Challenge

Anika Chebrolu, an eighth grader at Nelson Middle School in Frisco, Texas, won the 3M Young Scientist Challenge for discovering a drug that could help treat patients with COVID-19. 3M is an American manufacturing company based in Minnesota.

According to the 3M challenge website, Chebrolu used “in-silico methodology for drug discovery to find a molecule that can selectively bind to the Spike protein of SARS-CoV-2 virus in an attempt to find a cure for the COVID-19 pandemic.”

You can view her video entry below 1 min 59 sec:
https://youtu.be/fziWyFUO2dw

[Kay King]

Has anyone else noticed that news on the covid is almost exclusively conjecture now?

On nighty news I notice several times a week 'breaking news' is that 'cases are increasing in 30 states (only the number changes)' but if you look at the stats you see numbers increased a bit after decreasing for a while. The decreases in cases/deaths are not 'news' apparently.

Then there is the 'second wave' warning that's been going on for months. Yes, there may well be a 'second wave' and a third and a fourth....but continuing to predict it means people stop paying attention to it.

The risk is that so much doom and gloom and predictions of disaster are now part of our daily news diet....we are becoming complacent. If we are doing everything we're told and nothing is getting better....why not just go back to normal and save our economy? THAT is what many people are asking now....and blowing off the concerns doesn't solve any problem.

I am impressed at the lengths many businesses have gone to in order to protect customers from exposure to covid. While we were traveling I commented there might be a real future in starting a business to 'remove stickers'.

From airports to business offices to restaurants....1/2 to 2/3 of the seats have huge 'do not use' stickers on them......15" wide stickers on the floors separate people by 6 ft or more, etc. sooner or later someone will need to remove those stickers...just sayin'.....lots of 'adhesive residue' involved...

I do think the 'hand sanitizer stations' I see in so many public areas now are a feature we should KEEP and keep using going forward. I have noticed some groceries, walmarts, etc are not doing as well keeping their cart sanitizer wipes and hand sanitizers refilled as they did initially.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Has anyone else noticed that news on the covid is almost exclusively conjecture now?

On nighty news I notice several times a week 'breaking news' is that 'cases are increasing in 30 states (only the number changes)' but if you look at the stats you see numbers increased a bit after decreasing for a while. The decreases in cases/deaths are not 'news' apparently.
.

The numbers go up and down daily. But if you take the running weekly averages, then you see a real upward trend in maybe 30 states.

You already know this; good news isn't news. If a building doesn't catch fire, it's not on the news.

"News" means bad news in nearly every case.

But.... I see the graphs that are used on MSNBC, FOX, and CNN. Very misleading.

Something can be true and misleading at the same time.

You see a graph that looks like the cases have doubled in 3 weeks in a state. But the graph cuts off the results below the increase, so it looks like the cases are growing exponentially, when they are not.

And they will say something like "Cases doubled in (city, state)" But what they don't show is that this doubling went from 12 cases to 24. Hardly earth shattering.

"News" shows thrive on drama. Everything is breaking news. Everything is urgent. Everything is terrible. Everything is a threat.

I look at the numbers. The cases are going up over the last few weeks. The deaths are holding pretty steady at about 700-800 a day.

Of course, it's going to get worse. That has to be the prediction. Nothing else will keep us tuned in.

But it will slowly get better. Why?

Treatments, even now, are better than 6 months ago.
People who get it and survive, haven't got it again.
As a country, we are finally mostly wearing masks and keeping several feet apart.
Treatments are also being tested as are several vaccines.
We are getting used to an "acceptable level of loss".

SNL is already live, with the actors in scenes together.
Movies have begun re-filming.

I just wish everyone would wear a mask when out in public. I think if we did, in a couple of months, this thing would mostly blow over. A virus that doesn't spread, dies.

[MyiMall]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Part of my family believes it's all fake and designed to screw up the election

I see that one a lot, too and all I can do is shake my head. It's as if nothing exists outside the U.S. I always want to ask them: "so...the other 170+ countries all over the world are in on this election conspiracy as well?" You just can't fix stupid, right?

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Part of my family believes it's all fake and designed to screw up the election. .

I've heard that to from real living people that I talked to face to face.

I haven't asked any of them questions, because I didn't want to spend time on it. But the thought bewilders me.

I don't understand what they mean. Do they mean that it's all fake? Do they mean that the reason the Left keeps talking about it, and saying how bad it is....is just to hurt the President?

I will say this on a related thought.

I have noticed that any fact, about Covid, healthcare, or any subject even remotely political.......

..... immediately becomes an "Us VS Them" polarized position. And it has nothing to do with reason, the facts, or rational thought.

It's as though someone says an idea, and everyone in the country looks around to see who is going to say something first....and after the first person talks, it's instantly decided which side takes that position.

Like masks. There is no reason either political side would say that masks are ineffective. But as soon as someone on one side says they are effective, the other side has to say they aren't effective. And it goes both ways, on lots of subjects.

Maybe part of the explanation is that each side argues against thoughts the other side doesn't really have at all. Watch a "News" show on the political side other than your own. In any ten minutes, you'll see people arguing about your party...against something they don't really say or believe.

It's aggegious "Straw man" arguing. And it consumes all political talk, and all Facebook ads.

They will say that your candidate said something they didn't really say. I see it all the time from both sides.

It's a war on rational thought. On Facts. And we are all losing.

[perryny]

Originally Posted by Kay King

If we are doing everything we're told and nothing is getting better....why not just go back to normal and save our economy? THAT is what many people are asking now....and blowing off the concerns doesn't solve any problem.

FFS Kay, we are NOT doing everything we're told. Most are. Many are not. Which is more than enough to keep this thing increasingly spreading.

Remember there was some little ceremony held at the White House a few weeks back and in no time flat, 34 people reported catching it? These are people who largely spend their time in the most secure environment on the planet.

This thing spreads like wildfire.

But people continue to refuse to do what they're told. Big gatherings, no masks, no social distancing.

It will continue to spread.

[LGCalab]

Originally Posted by perryny

FFS Kay, we are NOT doing everything we're told. Most are. Many are not. Which is more than enough to keep this thing increasingly spreading.

Remember there was some little ceremony held at the White House a few weeks back and in no time flat, 34 people reported catching it? These are people who largely spend their time in the most secure environment on the planet.

This thing spreads like wildfire.

But people continue to refuse to do what they're told. Big gatherings, no masks, no social distancing.

It will continue to spread.

You're right. Same thing goes for NFL, baseball, school sports... on and on.

I've seen both sides breaking the mask rule. I agree with Kay, people are just sick of the confusion, the back and forth and the rest of the rhetoric.

I know what I'm doing this week... preparing for the meteor.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

If we are doing everything we're told and nothing is getting better....why not just go back to normal and save our economy? THAT is what many people are asking now.....

How many are not earing masks when in public, in the US? A third?

In my area, if you walk into a gas station...it's about half.

In my store (even though I have a sign asking them to wear a mask) it's about 75% wear a mask.

If a third of the people (I don't know the exact percentage) aren't wearing a mask in public, this will spread...just a little slower.

One thing I see is that people aren't shaking hands. I suppose that's a plus.

But we (The US) aren't doing everything we are bring told..

Individuals are...but not as a population.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by perryny

FFS Kay, we are NOT doing everything we're told. Most are. Many are not. Which is more than enough to keep this thing increasingly spreading.

Remember there was some little ceremony held at the White House a few weeks back and in no time flat, 34 people reported catching it? These are people who largely spend their time in the most secure environment on the planet.

This thing spreads like wildfire.

But people continue to refuse to do what they're told. Big gatherings, no masks, no social distancing.

It will continue to spread.

at this point ..what we are being told to do to protect us from getting covid is probably as effective as all the dietary recommendations over the last 45 years that has got us no where but ever increasing overweight people and obesity .

why are we not getting everyone on vitamin d, zinc and melatonin supplementation ..as outside the regeneron ..edit

the medical community and the terribly dietary advice over the last 50 years.. is why there is so much reluctance to do what they are told

[perryny]

Originally Posted by Odahh

the medical community and the terribly dietary advice over the last 50 years.. is why there is so much reluctance to do what they are told

No it's not. At all.

[perryny]

Originally Posted by LGCalab

I agree with Kay, people are just sick of the confusion, the back and forth and the rest of the rhetoric.

This is wrong too. There is no rhetoric, except for what people want to look for to support their side of the argument.

There shouldn't be an argument. Claude said it earlier, if the virus can't spread, it dies.

It's easy to stop the spreading. We can do it very quickly.

People just want to keep being a-holes.

[LGCalab]

Originally Posted by perryny

This is wrong too. There is no rhetoric, except for what people want to look for to support their side of the argument.

Wouldn't that be the very definition of rhetoric?

My comment was a blanket comment. It was more to point out how it's okay to have television shows, professional and college sports, and more, where no one is wearing a mask, they're certainly not social distancing (you can't tackle someone from 6ft. away, nor can you give out bro hugs). Yet, it's allowed and the people that don't wear masks are chastised. Some have a hard time accepting the double standard.

It's certain that as a world we all need to work together to find a solution to this.

[TobiMDD]

I don't want to read everything above here, but because I saw someone posting about the masks:
It's already proven that they can not stop the virus and are just a political instrument to make people aware of this fake pandemic.


Just think about it people, if it would be a real pandemic everything would be so much different - its the government and media which fools so many people.


Throw your tv out of the window and you will realize how beautiful the world is

[DWolfe]

Originally Posted by TobiMDD

I don't want to read everything above here, but because I saw someone posting about the masks:

Just think about it people, if it would be a real pandemic everything would be so much different - its the government and media which fools so many people.

It's real, my Brother's wife and one of his daughters have the Corona Virus currently. Found out last week. He is currently in a 14 day quarantine. If he gets it with the state of health he is in he will not last.

Masks shield against droplets coming out of some ones mouth. Ever had someone accidently sneeze on you ? Or a person get close to you coughing without covering their mouth ?

Keep the politics out of it.

[Frank Donovan]

Originally Posted by TobiMDD

I don't want to read everything above here,

Then don't post. This is a discussion forum, not a soapbox.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by TobiMDD

I don't want to read everything above here, but because I saw someone posting about the masks:
It's already proven that they can not stop the virus and are just a political instrument to make people aware of this fake pandemic.


Just think about it people, if it would be a real pandemic everything would be so much different - its the government and media which fools so many people.


Throw your tv out of the window and you will realize how beautiful the world is

And that Folks, is a real post from a real person. Someone who is sincere, and believes what they said.

These ideas exist in large numbers. And that's why this pandemic isn't going away anytime soon.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

I just came across this from the CDC about masks.

People who were infected in this study were asked questions about their previous 14 days of exposure. For example, had they gone to a restaurant or to church prior to their infection during the previous 14 days.

One of the questions was about face masks. 70% of those infected said that the 14 days prior they had always worn a mask and an additional 15% said they often wore a mask.

So, if the masks didn't protect them (assuming they really always or often wore a mask), are they protecting any of us?

Maybe Dr. Fauci was right before in his 60 Minutes interview.

I've wondered about that interview and what has changed since then. He, being a infectious disease expert, knows how these sorts of things spread. He knew about that before it started spreading. The science hasn't changed. One thing is that masks became political in a sense since then. We can blame all the idiots not wearing masks for our pain and fear. It's like a common enemy we can latch on to.

I know the official explanation is that they were afraid all the doctors wouldn't have masks. I agree with protecting frontline workers.

But if masks were always truly necessary for our protection, does this mean that Fauci and others were willing to let you and yours get infected and die to protect the doctors? In other words, if masks are needed, they purposefully lied and put all of us in danger with the lie. I'm not talking politicians here but the scientists and doctors. People that are still trusted and held up as the leaders against the virus.

Finally, if 70% of infected folks are always wearing a mask before getting infected, maybe it's time to think about the competing narratives and motives of what's being thrown our way. Is it all political? Is it just a good way to sell advertising? I've said before I wear masks and take all the other precautions. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but a lot of this seems politically driven or at least doesn't make sense to me.

Mark

Originally Posted by TobiMDD

I don't want to read everything above here, but because I saw someone posting about the masks:
It's already proven that they can not stop the virus and are just a political instrument to make people aware of this fake pandemic.

Just think about it people, if it would be a real pandemic everything would be so much different - its the government and media which fools so many people.

Throw your tv out of the window and you will realize how beautiful the world is

Agreed, l have had long discussions about this elsewhere, with good evidence pointing towards masks being inaffective, apart from someone standing directly in front of you with Covid, coughing, (l have only heard of three people like that over the last 6 months) when l was out, (and it could have been the flu).

Mexico City, brought in mandatory masks in May, and since then new cases and fatalities have skyrocketed. As well as manafacturers stating on the box that they don't protect against Covid, (particles pass through the mask and around it, as does smoke, (which is bigger)).

We are moving into summer here, and it is averaging warm+, (l don't have to wear one for medical reasons) and am grateful as a very hot day with high humidity will probably put the elderly in a bad way trying to get to a cool shopping ctr, (everything is closed, but maybe in a weeks time sanity will return).

Although today l saw a middle aged, overweight lady in the shopping ctr, fanning herself since the mask raises humidity within the mask to mouth area.

The air con, was barely noticable, probably becuase very little is open, with few people about, and the shopping ctr is trying to reduce costs.

Unless sanity previals, we will have high numbers of people suffering from heatstroke when the weather picks up.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Agreed, l have had long discussions about this elsewhere, with good evidence pointing towards masks being inaffective, apart from someone standing directly in front of you with Covid, coughing, (l have only heard of three people like that over the last 6 months) when l was out, (and it could have been the flu).
.

As has been explained numerous times...
The masks aren't designed to stop you from breathing in smoke or the virus. They are designed to stop the virus (which is on small droplets of water) from spreading...from an infected person wearing the mask.

And all virologists and epidemiologists...and everyone working in hospitals...tells us to wear a mask. I mean all of them, across the globe.

There is no evidence that they don't work. But you have to understand what they do. Wearing a mask protects those around you...not you.


The reason the numbers of cases still go up even after a mandatory rule goes into effect to wear masks...is that many people still don't wear them.



The reason mask MFGs have to say that the masks don't stop Covid is that the virus is smaller than the individual air holes in the mask. But the masks have multiple layers, and the water droplets that carry the virus are easily stopped by the material the masks are made from.

Nobody coughs or sneezes just the virus. It's carried on water droplets that can travel several feet. The masks stop the water droplets.

[Kay King]

The effects of this pandemic are long reaching. Reading her facebook page today I saw the comment below and thought 'oh crap - that's right'.

In 20 years our country will be run by people home schooled by day drinkers.

[kenmichaels]

Reuters and the Washington Post are now reporting that the excess death rate is about 300,000

The CDC defines excess deaths as the difference between the observed numbers of deaths in specific time periods and expected numbers of deaths in the same time periods. The agency found excess deaths have occurred every week since March 2020.

(Reuters) - Nearly 300,000 more people have died in the United States in 2020 during the coronavirus pandemic than historical trends would suggest, with about two-thirds of the deaths due to COVID-19 illnesses, according to a report released on Tuesday.

The report from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimated that 299,028 more people died between Jan. 26 and Oct. 3 than the average numbers from past years would have indicated.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN2752NQ

-

“The number of people dying from this pandemic is higher than we think,” said Steven Woolf, director emeritus of the Center on Society and Health at Virginia Commonwealth University, who has conducted independent analyses of excess mortality. “This study shows it. Others have as well.”

Outside analyses, including some by The Washington Post and researchers at Yale University, have found two main causes for excess deaths. Many probably were the result of covid-19, although they were not recorded that way on death certificates. Others are probably the result of deaths at home or in nursing homes from heart attacks, diabetes, strokes and Alzheimer’s disease, among people afraid to seek care in hospitals or unable to get it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...ar/ar-BB1ad6lv

[lanfear63]

Interesting Documentary on the Spanish Flu, Worth 30 minutes of your time. It also talks about the bounce back many countries had after it passed, although mostly quite brief. The parallels to today are quite apparent. Estimated death rates ran from 20 to 100 million, killed more than in the whole of World War One. Yet, extraordinarily has largely been forgotten.

https://youtu.be/d0AoRkmj9YM

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

As has been explained numerous times...
The masks aren't designed to stop you from breathing in smoke or the virus. They are designed to stop the virus (which is on small droplets of water) from spreading...from an infected person wearing the mask.

And all virologists and epidemiologists...and everyone working in hospitals...tells us to wear a mask. I mean all of them, across the globe.

Groan, this is why mass media needs to be kept away from. Sweden never made mask wearing mandatory, nor lockdowns, and they have had one of the lowest deaths counts, of most developed countries world wide, (New York, way higher). Currently everything is open, they sit next to each other on trains, and Saturdays night on popular streets has zero social distancing.

There is no "All" there, mass media want "All" they also want to trash Sweden since it goes against their mask for political gain, and the other buried ideology ideals.


And there have been a substantial number of studies done, with the flu, showing that masks worn inside for up to half an hour do nothing to stop the flu for jumping from one person to another.

Masks do nothing, unless someone is in front of you and coughs with a droplet reaching your mouth, (as l have experienced, that is virtually non existant).

Mass media push them because of the "T" thing, and because of the ideology thing, not because they actually work.

There is no evidence that they don't work. But you have to understand what they do. Wearing a mask protects those around you...not you.

The reason the numbers of cases still go up even after a mandatory rule goes into effect to wear masks...is that many people still don't wear them.

The reason mask MFGs have to say that the masks don't stop Covid is that the virus is smaller than the individual air holes in the mask. But the masks have multiple layers, and the water droplets that carry the virus are easily stopped by the material the masks are made from.

Nobody coughs or sneezes just the virus. It's carried on water droplets that can travel several feet. The masks stop the water droplets.

There is plenty of evidence, but you won't get it from mass media, and also plenty of charts showing that countries who bring in masks show no slowing.

Fear sells, not truth!

[Dan Riffle]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Groan, this is why mass media needs to be kept away from. Sweden never made mask wearing mandatory, nor lockdowns, and they have had one of the lowest deaths counts, of most developed countries world wide, (New York, way higher). Currently everything is open, they sit next to each other on trains, and Saturdays night on popular streets has zero social distancing.

There is no "All" there, mass media want "All" they also want to trash Sweden since it goes against their mask for political gain, and the other buried ideology ideals.


And there have been a substantial number of studies done, with the flu, showing that masks worn inside for up to half an hour do nothing to stop the flu for jumping from one person to another.

Masks do nothing, unless someone is in front of you and coughs with a droplet reaching your mouth, (as l have experienced, that is virtually non existant).

Mass media push them because of the "T" thing, and because of the ideology thing, not because they actually work.

There is plenty of evidence, but you won't get it from mass media, and also plenty of charts showing that countries who bring in masks show no slowing.

Fear sells, not truth!

Sweden is a disaster. Their death rate is Through. The. Roof.

And Sweden is about to implement lockdowns.

https://time.com/5901352/sweden-local-lockdowns/

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Sweden is a disaster. Their death rate is Through. The. Roof.

And Sweden is about to implement lockdowns.

https://time.com/5901352/sweden-local-lockdowns/

Time Magazine, lol, mass media.

Sweden has one death per day on average, with no masks or lockdowns.

And sure it was bad initially with retirement homes, (not as bad as NY, theres was through the roof).

This was Sweden last week.

Sweden - No Lockdowns, No Masks, No Insanity -...

No fear, no masks and no cops wresting people to the ground.

[TobiMDD]

Originally Posted by DWolfe

It's real, my Brother's wife and one of his daughters have the Corona Virus currently. Found out last week. He is currently in a 14 day quarantine. If he gets it with the state of health he is in he will not last.

Masks shield against droplets coming out of some ones mouth. Ever had someone accidently sneeze on you ? Or a person get close to you coughing without covering their mouth ?

I did not say that the virus doesn't exist.


Okay, then you need to wear a mask every year when the flu is there please..

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

And that Folks, is a real post from a real person. Someone who is sincere, and believes what they said.

These ideas exist in large numbers. And that's why this pandemic isn't going away anytime soon.

the reason why this 'pandemic' isn't going anywhere soon is because of people like you who still believe into this nonsense..



But no reason to fight here, in near future you will all find out that those who you think are idiots were right. Hope you are all ready to apologize then..



I'm from germany and from our own history we know best how it is when the government lies to you. We had the DDR here in east germany for over 30 years and most of those who already were alive during this time say that it feels like back in the days. When you say something wrong , when you have your own opinion you get judged, then the censorship everwhere on fb, youtube etc, it's unreal whats happening..


Luckily in my country people already woke up in large numbers, we had almost 1 million people in Berlin in august against all of this on the streets (Media of course reported of 15,000 because they are part of this fake)


But don't worry I know it's useless to discuss it, I would prefer to send sources to prove what I'm saying is right, but they are only in german language..

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

Then don't post. This is a discussion forum, not a soapbox.

okay np next time I sit down and read a forum for 8 hours about corona before I post lol

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by TobiMDD

I did not say that the virus doesn't exist.

Okay, then you need to wear a mask every year when the flu is there please..

the reason why this 'pandemic' isn't going anywhere soon is because of people like you who still believe into this nonsense..

But no reason to fight here, in near future you will all find out that those who you think are idiots were right. Hope you are all ready to apologize then..

I'm from germany and from our own history we know best how it is when the government lies to you. We had the DDR here in east germany for over 30 years and most of those who already were alive during this time say that it feels like back in the days. When you say something wrong , when you have your own opinion you get judged, then the censorship everwhere on fb, youtube etc, it's unreal whats happening..

Luckily in my country people already woke up in large numbers, we had almost 1 million people in Berlin in august against all of this on the streets (Media of course reported of 15,000 because they are part of this fake)

But don't worry I know it's useless to discuss it, I would prefer to send sources to prove what I'm saying is right, but they are only in german language..

okay np next time I sit down and read a forum for 8 hours about corona before I post lol

Are you saying that you believe the virus does exist and the pandemic does not exist?

Originally Posted by TobiMDD

I don't want to read everything above here, but because I saw someone posting about the masks:
It's already proven that they can not stop the virus and are just a political instrument to make people aware of this fake pandemic.

You do know that a pandemic is defined as “an epidemic occurring worldwide, or over a very wide area, crossing international boundaries and usually affecting a large number of people”?

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

There is no "All" there, mass media want "All" they also want to trash Sweden since it goes against their mask for political gain, and the other buried ideology ideals.

I agree. It's a conspiracy by the media. And every epidemiologist, hospital worker, nurse, virologist on the planet is in on it. The CDC and the WHO are just cover organizations to promote communism.

Millions of health professionals, in every country are spreading the same lie about wearing masks. My guess is that they each get 5 cents every time someone buys a mask. It's the only explanation that makes sense.

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Time Magazine, lol, mass media.

Sweden has one death per day on average, with no masks or lockdowns.

And sure it was bad initially with retirement homes, (not as bad as NY, theres was through the roof).

This was Sweden last week.

Sweden - No Lockdowns, No Masks, No Insanity - YouTube

No fear, no masks and no cops wresting people to the ground.

I see your point. Why believe Time magazine, with their decades of journalistic integrity, when there are Youtube videos that say something else.

Remember, Youtube video made by non-expert is better than science.

Everyone got that?