[DWolfe]

Just a FYI just came from Costco. Either the supply chain had issues or people are panicking again. The inventory was very very low. People were buying as if someone told them the state is going to lock down today.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Odahh

they can't afford more lockdowns ..they can't afford enforcement.. or the risks of possible police shooting because of masks .

All nonsense, irrelevant. We are talking about that verses mass death.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by lanfear63

"Numbers that go up 20-30k a day and then drop by 50k are not stable enough to be basing 'closure' decisions on in my opinion."

It makes me laugh to hear that, "Not enough for closures?" 200,000 infected a day on the cards and "some" state governors are just coming round to saying, "Well we are not going to enforce it, but it would really be a good idea to wear a mask" That is just Unreal.

No wonder America is so highly infected. No blanket rules or cohesion.

...Or the belief that covid is real. Or if they do believe it's real, they just don't believe it's as bad or infectious as the numbers say. Yes, they say the numbers on TV ( case/ deaths/ all numbers) are a lie.

For a while now, I have just thought it must be here in FL where I live. Perhaps the people in my bubble/ neighborhood/ county are just idiots. However, today I heard an interview with a nurse who was saying she keeps witnessing people literally dying from covid who are refusing to believe that they are dying from covid. So I guess the lunacy is worldwide.

I don't understand the ostrich mentality.

[kenmichaels]

Scientists reveal the most accurate image of the Covid-19 coronavirus

Am I the only one who finds the virus rather pretty?

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Scientists reveal the most accurate image of the Covid-19 coronavirus

Am I the only one who finds the virus rather pretty?

]

on one hand it look like a picture a child would draw of the planet with lots of trees ..on the other hand it look like a little velcro ball ..


makes me wonder .. what happens with these cloth masks people where over and over or for long periods of time .. maybe there is a risk that the virus sit on the surface of the mask .. and when someone takes it off .. and put it back on .. if the mask gets switched around when someone puts it back on they start breathing in the contaminated side ..

when you see japan and other asian countries they tend to wear the disposable medical masks and in some countries they require the masks and the face shields when they go in public buildings ..

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Odahh

makes me wonder .. what happens with these cloth masks people where over and over or for long periods of time .. maybe there is a risk that the virus sit on the surface of the mask .. and when someone takes it off .. and put it back on .. if the mask gets switched around when someone puts it back on they start breathing in the contaminated side ..

I don't see masks that you cannot tell one side from the other. Even the cheap paper masks, once you take it off, conform to the shape of your face, and it's easy to tell inside from outside.

I wear the cheap paper masks. I change mine after a few days. Easy to tell inside from outside.

Of course, if you are passing a mask around, your virus will be on the inside of the mask, if you have it. So I wouldn't share masks.

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

...

I don't understand the ostrich mentality.

It's not ostrich mentality. We all get out information from sources we trust. We all think we are right, and anyone who sees it differently is wrong.

Of course, there is only one reality...but if your "news" source edits reality, or fabricates reality....and it's a source you believe...then that's your reality now too.

We are all like that. The only cure for that is to not care at all what the truth is, and just look at flaws in reason. If you see a flaw, then it isn't true. Or at least it's partly untrue.

But I watch MSNBC...and FOX. Two completely different planets there. And I see heavy edits on reality on both sides. And even then, I have to assume the numbers are right at the CDC and WHO. Me? I believe the AP feeds and the New York Times...but not their editorial pages.

Added later; Also, an awful lot of how we see the world is based on where we grew up, who our parents are, and who our friends are. We all see the world through a lens. And we all think the lens we have is clear. And none of them are.

[Jeffery]

Of course, if you are passing a mask around, your virus will be on the inside of the mask, if you have it. So I wouldn't share masks.

I'm not gonna touch that one Kay.

[Matthew Stanley]

Good quote from Shopify's CEO on C19 + Starlink's impact on work/cities I thought I'd share (Starlink's beta tests look pretty great!)

"Cities have had a monopoly on the best jobs for 200 years. COVID induced remote friendliness and Starlink are the 1-2 punch. People underestimate how much the world will change with great internet everywhere. A massive democratisation of opportunities"

https://twitter.com/tobi/status/1322629524752924672

[Claude Whitacre]

Well, boys and girls....

We now have slightly more than 250,000 deaths in the US from the virus.

1,923 people died yesterday in the US.

Since November 4th, there have been over 100,000 new cases a day, with the increase averaging 25% a week. Compounded weekly.

172,000 new cases yesterday.

Over 79,000 currently hospitalized with Covid.

Most people are still planning a Thanksgiving family get together. Half won't be wearing masks.

Just a heads up.

Remember in the dim past...eight months ago, when 1,000 new cases a day sent us into a panic?

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Well, boys and girls....

We now have slightly more than 250,000 deaths in the US from the virus.

1,923 people died yesterday in the US.

Since November 4th, there have been over 100,000 new cases a day, with the increase averaging 25% a week. Compounded weekly.

172,000 new cases yesterday.

Over 79,000 currently hospitalized with Covid.

Most people are still planning a Thanksgiving family get together. Half won't be wearing masks.

Just a heads up.

Remember in the dim past...eight months ago, when 1,000 new cases a day sent us into a panic?

I read somewhere .... way back at the beginning of this, that if we reach 3333 deaths per day then we have lost all control or containment possibilities. Anything under that number means we have a chance of mitigation.

I'm pretty sure that was in the original CDC outline for pandemic prevention, if so, everything they predicted in that original report has come to pass. Including the political infighting and resistance to masks and mandates.

Stay safe buddy. I know a fairly young pregnant husband and wife in the ICU right now.
He's doing better, so far she is not.

I think we might be close to the point where everyone in the united states will become affected in one way or another, If they don't get it themselves then they will know someone or many who will.

I wonder how many people will still be thinking covid is fake news in a few years after the dust settles
and they have maybe lost people they know. I also wonder, how will they continue to justify that it's all fake.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

I read somewhere .... way back at the beginning of this, that if we reach 3333 deaths per day then we have lost all control or containment possibilities. Anything under that number means we have a chance of mitigation.

That doesn't sound rational. If half the people in the US died, you could still stop the virus with a vaccine, or wearing masks and social distancing...assuming everyone did it.
All viruses can be contained, at any stage of their spread. It's human behavior that spreads the virus, and that can change at any time....in theory.

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

I wonder how many people will still be thinking covid is fake news in a few years after the dust settles
and they have maybe lost people they know. I also wonder, how will they continue to justify that it's all fake.

You assume that people would question their own take on reality. But that just doesn't happen. I can't count how many times I've heard a conspiracy theory that predicted a specific event, at a specific time. And then it doesn't happen. We have several examples of that currently.

I doubt that anyone who believed any of these predictions now thinks that they were wrong. We change the facts to fit our beliefs, not the other way around.

I've never heard anyone say "Well, I was wrong. It never happened". My Mom was convinced the world would end in 1975, (Her religion taught this). I asked her about this years later, and she just changed the meaning of "World will end", and continued believing it.

If you bring it up, the person will see it as an attack, and invariable get angry.

And when anger enters the picture, all reasoning is gone. I'm talking about all of us. Including all of us here.

My belief is that the world is made up of wonderful caring people...who cannot hold a rational thought in their head.


I was at a meeting of one of my main suppliers. They announced, to a crowd of about 200 business owners/customers that they were temporarily lowering our cost of one model of vacuum cleaner by $75.

One at a time, the retailers complained about the price decrease. I'm not joking. I watched as the CEO of the company had to fend off accusations of price fixing, ruining the market, and killing the profit on the vacuum.

Again, I'm not joking.

After about the 20th guy complaining, I just started laughing. Nobody else was laughing, and nobody understood why I was thinking this was ridiculous.

I said "How dare you lower our cost?! We won't stand for it!"...and kept laughing.

Humans. And I see things more ridiculous several times a day.

Added a few seconds later; On a break from typing this, a customer came in the door with a Shark vacuum cleaner. They said it didn't run. I told them I didn't work on them and couldn't get parts for it.

The lady said "But I bought it here". I said "I'm sorry, but we have never sold Shark vacuums. We've never had them in the store. I'm not a Shark dealer. Let me tell you where you can get it fixed"

She said "If I take it somewhere else, will they give me the runaround, just like you did?"

Humans...all day...every day....

[Kay King]

Saw on the news last night that a new 'projection of '200k more deaths by mid January" was spouted. Why are politicians making predictions of doom and gloom - what purpose does that serve? That would be that 3300 deaths per day mentioned above - isn't that odd? Could it be a 'talking point' rather than news? In this pandemic, it's become difficult to separate truth from fear mongering but we need to question those wild predictions.

Projections - threats of enforcement of rules that make little or no sense because they are unenforceable - 'shutdowns' with so many exceptions there is no point to shutting down. Closing schools IMO is more about teachers' unions than students as the numbers show schools are not a 'hotbed' of new cases anywhere where schools are open.

I think right now there is a bit of panic because we are realizing that NO MATTER WHAT WE GIVE UP OR WHAT WE DO - there is still a pandemic. I was out in a couple stores yesterday for a 'necessities run' and saw only ONE person without a mask. People here are taking the mask requirement seriously now - but cases are still increasing.

On the news yesterday, the developer of one of the new vaccines estimated the vaccination rate would be about 10 million people / month. That tells me we will be dealing with this pandemic till next summer.

Most people are still planning a Thanksgiving family get together. Half won't be wearing masks.

But - you don't know how many are planning celebrations or will wear masks. I don't wear a mask in my home.



I've talked to friends who like us are changing their celebrations and limiting people - but are still going to 'have' Thanksgiving. We are not having the open house for local relatives that is normal for us - the few who will be staying here over the holiday have been told there will be no trips into town to see old friends or visit local bars, etc. We are doing what we can to limit the risk and I think others are doing the same.


There is more involved than JUST this pandemic. Does my d-in-law tell her father and his wife not to come from Wisconsin? They have kept themselves isolated in their condo - he is much older and with health problems. He is determined to come to see his daughter because he knows this may be his last thanksgiving. That's reality. Does his daughter tell him not to come...knowing his time is running out?

My younger son and grandson from Atlanta will be here - again, there's more than the pandemic involved. We make an effort to include that grandson as part of the inner family circle. We need to provide family connections and holidays that he lost when his mother died over two years ago. It's even more important this year when time with friends has been limited by covid.

We can only decide what WE will do for the holiday - to avoid covid, etc. We can't judge what others do if we don't know their stories. For many people, avoiding holiday gatherings this year is smart so they can HAVE those celebrations in years to come. For others, this may be the last chance for a holiday or necessary for the emotional health of a family.


I think no matter what we do - or don't do - it's going to be a long, difficult winter. Did any of us think this would last so long? I know I didn't.

[Mark Singletary]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

I wonder how many people will still be thinking covid is fake news in a few years after the dust settles
and they have maybe lost people they know. I also wonder, how will they continue to justify that it's all fake.

I think some people can never be convinced of certain things. People believe Elvis is alive, we didn't land on the moon, 9-11 was fake, the earth is flat, etc. no matter common sense, science, or who says otherwise.

I think it's reasonable to question certain aspects of the virus and/or response. For example, I think we could have a discussion about the low death rate compared to infection rate and what that means long-term health issues and what is the best way to respond.

I think it's reasonable to argue about masks, vaccines, lockdowns, etc.

I think it's reasonable to talk about political slants, news stories that may have an agenda (not "pure" news), politicians being "dictators" or seemingly not caring at all, etc.

I think it's reasonable for people to question what they hear, to speak out, etc.

But I can't fathom anyone really believing that it's all 100% fake. Something is killing these people.

Mark

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Saw on the news last night that a new 'projection of '200k more deaths by mid January" was spouted. Why are politicians making predictions of doom and gloom - what purpose does that serve?

Usually these predictions are based on current trends. They say them partly because it's dramatic.

Originally Posted by Kay King

I think right now there is a bit of panic because we are realizing that NO MATTER WHAT WE GIVE UP OR WHAT WE DO - there is still a pandemic.

No. It matters greatly what we do. It matters little what we do, if only some of us do it.

Originally Posted by Kay King

But - you don't know how many are planning celebrations or will wear masks. .

That is true. I have no knowledge. I was repeating the results of a survey that was done a few days ago. People were asked if they were going to gather for Thanksgiving, and were they going to wear masks. Whether the people in the survey were telling the truth, or the demographics of the respondents...I have no idea.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

My belief is that the world is made up of wonderful caring people...who cannot hold a rational thought in their head.

I have always thought that I basically understood people as a whole and if selling or prospecting to them, then understanding them much much more intimately.

Since I am fairly young and have had some major accomplishments under my belt, that feeling of understanding was unshakable, and on top of that, I consider myself a human lie detector (I know, you know, what I mean). Pre-covid, I think id be willing to wager on how someone would react or what actions they would take. Now, I have come to realize that my x wife is correct.

I'm an idiot, and I give people too much credit and opportunity to do the right thing. My girlfriend says the same thing.

[Princess Balestra]

Tellya, if'n they put that Covid deesign on sum yoga pants, I would wear 'em.

Random print on black for nite class, smaller random print on white for workin' out as the sun comes up.

"From Corona to Asana in 2 Easy Legs"

Throw in a matchin' 3 mask handi-pack, an' you got the perfick recipe for conshee-enshwaas gals who wanna stay in touch with their spirityool bendin' durin' the pandemic.

That is my happy thought for the day.

Keep smilin', evrywan.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

But I can't fathom anyone really believing that it's all 100% fake. Something is killing these people.

Mark

Some believe the numbers are fake, and part of a global conspiracy....or a political hit job

Some think the numbers are exaggerated by doctors/hospitals, including people that were going to die from something else.

Some think the reporting agencies are corrupt for some reason.

Some believe the doctors are faking the death certificates to make more money.

It's not so much that these thoughts are irrational, it's that they are believed with such certainty, that no argument can penetrate.

[Dan Riffle]

Originally Posted by Kay King

There is more involved than JUST this pandemic. Does my d-in-law tell her father and his wife not to come from Wisconsin? They have kept themselves isolated in their condo - he is much older and with health problems. He is determined to come to see his daughter because he knows this may be his last thanksgiving. That's reality. Does his daughter tell him not to come...knowing his time is running out?

Just to be the voice of the opposition, yes.

Originally Posted by Kay King

We can only decide what WE will do for the holiday - to avoid covid, etc. We can't judge what others do if we don't know their stories. For many people, avoiding holiday gatherings this year is smart so they can HAVE those celebrations in years to come. For others, this may be the last chance for a holiday or necessary for the emotional health of a family.

Oh, we can judge.

Thanksgiving is make-believe. It's an idea celebrated on a day. COVID is a reality. The number of people who *need* to celebrate Thanksgiving is so small it's statistically insignificant. It might even be 0. However, the number of people who will die due to Thanksgiving is not. It's real and it will be significant and will carry on in perpetuity.

In my opinion - I'm not speaking for anyone else -- celebrating Thanksgiving with anyone other than your housemates is foolhardy at best and outright selfish and deadly at worst, especially considering how close we are to receiving a vaccine. Sharing a turkey leg with Grandma isn't worth her life. One can share that same turkey leg a couple weeks after everyone is immunized, whenever that might be.

We are on the precipice of a resolution. A vaccine is just beyond our grasp. To let our collective guard down now is a failure in perseverance. It's akin to knowing a street light will be put in tomorrow so you run into traffic today. Further, so many people don't trust their family enough to lend them money, but they'll trust them with their lives ("What? Yeah, sure, Grandma, I haven't been anywhere. Honestly, I'm not calling you from the bar right now or anything. Swear.")

Yes, Grandma might not make it that long anyway. Thems the breaks. It's reality, a hard reality, but reality nonetheless.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

I have always thought that I basically understood people as a whole and if selling or prospecting to them, then understanding them much much more intimately.

Since I am fairly young and have had some major accomplishments under my belt, that feeling of understanding was unshakable, and on top of that, I consider myself a human lie detector (I know, you know, what I mean).

The good news (for me anyway) is that people don't need to be rational to be predictable.

Decades of selling, or running a business...dealing with the public...gives you insights into human nature that most people don't have.

The pandemic, exacerbated by a very divided country....brings us to new territories of human behavior. New islands of belief.

I wonder how many things I completely "know for a fact"...that are simply not true?

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Sharing a turkey leg with Grandma isn't worth her life. One can share that same turkey leg a couple weeks after everyone is immunized, whenever that might be.

.

Now that we are hearing, from reputable sources, that there is indeed a tested and proven vaccine coming out in a few weeks (or less),,,,even if it takes a few months for the most at risk of us to get it....It certainly seems like we could wait.

There will be a day soon when we can all hug each other...or slap each other...depending on your inclinations.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I wonder how many things I completely "know for a fact"...that are simply not true?



Now that we are hearing, from reputable sources, that there is indeed a tested and proven vaccine coming out in a few weeks (or less),,,,even if it takes a few months for the most at risk of us to get it....It certainly seems like we could wait.

There will be a day soon when we can all hug each other...or slap each other...depending on your inclinations.

give a timeline of may or june before an adequate number of people are vaccinated..and february before people cannot get on planes trains or busses to travel without proof of vaccination ..then it can be contained and prevented from being spread ..

though i don't agree with giveing ticket to people for not wearing masks when outdoors.. once there is a vaccine .. people traveling state to state should be required to be vaccinated .

[socialentry]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Decades of selling, or running a business...dealing with the public...gives you insights into human nature that most people don't have.


The pandemic, exacerbated by a very divided country....brings us to new territories of human behavior. New islands of belief.

I wonder how many things I completely "know for a fact"...that are simply not true?

As much as I respect your opinion on anything sales and marketing, I found your social commentary to be mostly wrong.

The US is not "very divided",relative to other countries.

Canada was verging on breaking up in the early 80s, and then again in the mid 90s. Beside this, you can look up the Troubles, the Italian parliament, the creation of the French 5th republic, etc. The list goes on and on and I only stop to lighten the text.


The phrase misrepresents one punter as being of equal strength to the other.

Originally Posted by Kay King

We can only decide what WE will do for the holiday - to avoid covid, etc. We can't judge what others do if we don't know their stories. For many people, avoiding holiday gatherings this year is smart so they can HAVE those celebrations in years to come. For others, this may be the last chance for a holiday or necessary for the emotional health of a family.

I'm not supposed to say this... but you can just buy peanut butter, smudger it on grandpa and put a few branches on his head. The cops are probably too dumb to realize it's not a real tree.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by socialentry

As much as I respect your opinion on anything sales and marketing, I found your social commentary to be mostly wrong.

The US is not "very divided",relative to other countries.

Canada was verging on breaking up in the early 80s, and then again in the mid 90s. Beside this, you can look up the Troubles, the Italian parliament, the creation of the French 5th republic, etc. The list goes on and on and I only stop to lighten the text.


The phrase misrepresents one punter as being of equal strength to the other.

e.

the fear and political divide is driven by the media .. so it's not as noticeable if you do not watch the media .. all that much ..

the real divide is between the minority who can stay ahead of inflating prices and the 80 percent of the population falling behind .. or who where struggling to keep up.. before the pandemic..

although there is going to be inflation because of supply line interruptions .. we will se a lot of price deflation in the next few years ..

[Declan O Flaherty]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Some believe the numbers are fake, and part of a global conspiracy....or a political hit job

Why would they think the numbers are fake?

Could it be because the PCR tests are so unreliable? Could it be because only 6% die from covid and the overwhelming majority that died with it, were older than life expectancy and had on average 2.6 serious underlying problems?

Maybe it's because Doctors were given instructions to count every death as a covid death just because they had it at time of death? Or could it be because tens of thousands of REAL experts went on record to say that this is nothing more than a bad flu?

Or maybe it's because the same people telling you about these so called accurate numbers, just so happen to be the same people who told you masks were useless 4 months ago. Or that lock downs work even though Sweden proved they didn't?

Oh, and just for the sake of common sense: Why would tens of thousands of Doctors and Scientists go on record to say that this is no more deadly than a flu? I can see the motives for saying it's going to kill us all. I can't see the motive for saying it's not more deadly than a bad flu. I mean, to say that, if it wasn't true, would be committing career suicide. Let that sink in. <<<Mod edit. Rudeness violates WF rules.>>>

The same scientists you keep listening to, are the same scientists who said that if Sweden didn't lock down by June, they would have 96,000 deaths. Sweden ignored them. They had 4,000 deaths by June. Just another nail in the coffin for your cartoon scientists.

Yesterday former Secretary of Education Arne Duncan posted the following:

“How did we catch it? I don’t know. We wore masks. We socially distanced. We avoided crowds. We haven’t had people in our house.”

Virus gonna virus.

The same people screaming about masks and social distancing and lock downs, are also the same people who are now screaming at the high case counts these useless things were meant to curb.

You couldn't make this stuff up, unless you did, of course.

There are other concerns in the world other than covid. How insane that I have to even mention that. Have you people any idea how many people have died, and who are going to die from these lock downs? Have you ANY idea?????

Unbelievable!

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by socialentry

As much as I respect your opinion on anything sales and marketing, I found your social commentary to be mostly wrong.

The US is not "very divided",relative to other countries.

Canada was verging on breaking up in the early 80s, and then again in the mid 90s. Beside this, you can look up the Troubles, the Italian parliament, the creation of the French 5th republic, etc. The list goes on and on and I only stop to lighten the text.

I didn't say the US was very divided relative to other countries.

You are arguing against a statement that I didn't make.

[socialentry]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I didn't say the US was very divided relative to other countries.

You are arguing against a statement that I didn't make.

"Very divided" is relative.Without a reference,the statement is meaningless.


Other countries is as good a starting point as any.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

[B]

Yesterday former Secretary of Education Arne Duncan posted the following:

“How did we catch it? I don’t know. We wore masks. We socially distanced. We avoided crowds. We haven’t had people in our house.”

Virus gonna virus.

I want to address that.

My guess is that we hear this exact story often. I hear the exact structure of that story every day..."I have no idea how that happened.....I did this and this and this. And it still happened."

Here are the reasons we hear this...(about the masks)

1) She could have simply been wrong about any one thing she said. We tend to state in absolutes what is nearly true. For example, she said she avoided large crowds. Probably true. But it only takes one person to transmit the virus. Large crowds just increase the odds that someone in your vicinity has the virus. She said "We wore masks". She didn't say that everyone she met also wore a mask. Maybe they did. Maybe they didn't.

2) The virus is spread mostly in the air, but could have been spread by touching a surface with the virus. There are other ways for it to be transmitted. Have you ever had a cold? Do you ever get one when you don't remember anyone around you having a cold? We all have.

3) She said "We". That means there are others involved, probably in her family. Most people (especially the young) have no symptoms. Or at least they have very mild symptoms. The virus can easily be transmitted from one person to another, several generations, without anyone being aware of it.


That doesn't mean masks are ineffective. It means that she doesn't know how she got the virus.

Wearing a mask doesn't mean you won't ever get the virus. Wearing a mask substantially reduces the chance that you will transmit the virus to others.

And even if everyone wears a mask, some people will still get it. The masks just severely reduce the risks of transmission.


My wife and I always wear a mask in public, and when someone comes in our store. We ask everyone in our store to wear a mask, and most do. We social distance and my wife wipes surfaces down most every day.

Does that mean we won't get the virus? No. It means we are less likely to get the virus.

Originally Posted by socialentry

"Very divided" is relative.Without a reference,the statement is meaningless.


Other countries is as good a starting point as any.

OK. What I was referring to was that the country is very divided compared to recent decades in the past. For example, more divided than I can remember.

My mistake was in not making that absolutely clear.

And you are correct to point out that "very" always means relative to something else.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

My mistake was in not making that absolutely clear.

And you are correct to point out that "very" always means relative to something else.

Yeah! Especially if you're going to post as an authoritative.

As I was talking with you guys yesterday, my girlfriend's chest was hurting, and her breathing was labored to the point she wanted to go to the emergency room. So I spent several hours at the hospital in earshot of people diagnosed with covid in the LOBBY. I heard one 60 or so year old looking lady tell her 100-year-old looking mother that her chest x-rays came back bad, so they think she has covid, and now they need to do a covid test. I then heard her angry-sounding mother say, so what's that mean? As if she never heard of the pandemic - I heard a variation of that throughout the day. One of the nurses who was attending to my GF had her mask hanging around her neck. I asked her, "so is there covid here or what?" ...and she laughed and said here, as in today? because we have admitted 5 in the last hour, and the guy who sat where you guys are now never told us he tested positive for covid, and I'm super pissed.

As my GF was getting her chest x-ray, she asked that nurse about covid and, that nurse's response was, Nah, the covid isn't bad here.

Conflicting reports in the same building. Crazy.

BTW: my GF is fine it was a bad reaction to the new medication. And the point of this post is to mention ill know for sure here in a few days if masks really work or not. End of story. Sitting in that waiting room for so long gave me some anxiety, but other than that nagging in the back of my head, I'm pretty sure the masks work as advertised.

Also, I should note, we first went to the two hospital's closest to us, the emergency waiting rooms were packed to the roof, so we decided to go to the hospital where my son was born and, I have a few contacts. We might still be waiting somewhere else.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by socialentry

As much as I respect your opinion on anything sales and marketing, I found your social commentary to be mostly wrong.

.

So assertive young Padawan. Everything ok?

Originally Posted by socialentry

I'm not supposed to say this... but you can just buy peanut butter, smudger it on grandpa and put a few branches on his head. The cops are probably too dumb to realize it's not a real tree.

and that's funny

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Also, I should note, we first went to the two hospital's closets to us, the emergency waiting rooms were packed to the roof .

The emergency waiting rooms were packed...so you went to the hospital's closet? And then you went to another hospital's closet?

I think I have identified your problem.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Yes, Grandma might not make it that long anyway. Thems the breaks. It's reality, a hard reality, but reality nonetheless.

My just turned 85 GM has been trying to talk everyone in the family into celebrating the holidays at her place outside on her 6x6 screened-in porch.

One of the things I said was, it's going to be too cold for that. And her reply was, we can hang plastic over the screens and turn on a few space heaters.

My GM is one sharp tac, but it took me a LONG time to convince her that was one genuinely bad idea.

She must have covid fatigue or something because she's about as blue as you can get.

[DWolfe]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

BTW: my GF is fine it was a bad reaction to the new medication. And the point of this post is to mention ill know for sure here in a few days if masks really work or not. End of story. Sitting in that waiting room for so long gave me some anxiety, but other than that nagging in the back of my head, I'm pretty sure the masks work as advertised.
e.

Hope the GF is feeling better today, also hope you do not have any news from the hospital in the next few days.

[Matthew Stanley]

Originally Posted by Odahh

the fear and political divide is driven by the media

I co-sign to this belief. Humans have inherent bias - that's unavoidable. But today's Media - on TV, Twitter, etc - have precious little incentive to "steel man" their POV by articulating, accurately and in good faith, what "the other side genuinely believes," (in a way the 'other side' would agree is accurate!) ... the result of which is often ad hominem attacks of "your guy is #@%!" versus "Your guy is !%@#".

This ramps up tensions to a frightening degree at times. Though harder to do than ever, I've found that I at least "feel" the most sane/grounded during those times when my watch-time is lowest.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Odahh

the fear and political divide is driven by the media .. .

Originally Posted by Matthew Stanley

I co-sign to this belief. Humans have inherent bias - that's unavoidable. But today's Media - on TV, Twitter, etc - have precious little incentive to "steel man" their POV by articulating, accurately and in good faith, what "the other side genuinely believes," (in a way the 'other side' would agree is accurate!) ... the result of which is often ad hominem attacks of "your guy is #@%!" versus "Your guy is !%@#".

Mathew; The Steel Man approach is there if you actually want to understand the other person's view...and if you are seeking to learn or cooperate.

It is both media (nearly all media) and political parties....and politicians that are churning up conflict. Why? I'm glad you asked.

Media wants viewers. Viewers want to watch train wrecks. Watching a civil discussion gets the channel changed. We love to watch fights....so we can cheer on the fighter on our side, and yell at the evil fighter on the other side.

And in politics? Fights with enemies creates voters. Fights with enemies raises funds.

And that's why, no matter what the cause, argument, policy, emergency, or coronavirus..

Half the people think one way and half the people think the opposite way. This tension...this opposition...creates an audience...it raises funds to "fund the fight".

It isn't something that can be fixed. It's just the way we are.

"Steel man-ing" is something scientists do to understand each other and advance knowledge. But we have to be kept angry. Angry enough to watch our chosen "news" shows...Mad enough to send money. Mad enough to vote.

We are all doing the same dance, just on different sides of the same stage.

[Matthew Stanley]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

We are all doing the same dance, just on different sides of the same stage.

A perfectly succinct way to put it. Gonna steal that if you don't mind.

What you say makes sense/rings true to me - and yeah, the truism 'if it bleeds it leads' is there for a reason. Further complicating matters is that attention spans are limited to start with, and it's never been easier to get the quick rush of satisfaction that comes from confirming one's own biases/beliefs (just follow on social media the people who agree with you, or watch the 'right' opinion news channel).

Feelings of outrage and/or moral superiority are powerful, addicting, and, to your point, persuasive/lead to action. What I'd love to become better at, is reminding myself that the burden of seeing and understanding what's going on on the other side of the stage falls on me.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Matthew Stanley

the burden of seeing and understanding what's going on on the other side of the stage falls on me.

And that is the smartest thing I've read in a while.

Understanding that point is one of the hardest hurtles to overcome when debating, learning, or selling.

It's not the other person's responsibility to be clear. It's my responsibility to understand.

[socialentry]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

So assertive young Padawan. Everything ok?

Yeah, life is remarkably normal actually. At a personal level, the pandemic created mainly first world problems like not being able to meet new people so I am very lucky.

It feels weird to write this because I live in a hotspot.There's been about a couple hundreds COVID deaths in my electoral district. At the local clinic, there's been a couple dozen cases in the last 24 hours. Also, there was a point where hospitalization required a 50 km trip outside the city because the wards were overflowing.

Yet I didn't know any of the dead or anyone who got sick. The people I know who did were mostly friends of friends I likely never met. Even the people I know who were a bit spotty about precautions (e.g. those who went to protests) didn't get it.

It might be hard to believe , I also actually never met a hardcore conspiracy theorist in real life. They exist for sure, but it's really nowhere near as mainstream as in the US. Thankfully, I never had to argue with relatives about mask or social distancing although some have too much faith in the government's ability to contain it.

Hope you're gonna be allright in any case. With the caveat that the plural of anecdote is not data, FWIW, all my local friends and family wear masks,use disinfectant,etc and none of us got it.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Matthew Stanley

A perfectly succinct way to put it. Gonna steal that if you don't mind.



Feelings of outrage and/or moral superiority are powerful, addicting, and, to your point, persuasive/lead to action. What I'd love to become better at, is reminding myself that the burden of seeing and understanding what's going on on the other side of the stage falls on me.

the interesting part of this ..is there may end up being 10 to 20 vaccines available around the world in the next year .. what does that have to do with the people on either side..are both under the allusion there is one best answer to any problem ..rather than a range of ten to 20 or more different answers that work ..

[Princess Balestra]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

We are all doing the same dance, just on different sides of the same stage.

So what it gowin' on center stage?

I would so love to see a jugglin' hellerfunt in a spangly onesie.

Srsly tho* — is this the longest runnin' thread on WF?

It's like a self-bumpin' discourse on evrythin' from filosophy to slingin' 3-ply fabric round your chops.



* but only just

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Princess Balestra

So what it gowin' on center stage?

My Dearest Darling Princess;

We all think we are on center stage. We can see it in no other way.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

My Dearest Darling Princess;

We all think we are on center stage. We can see it in no other way.

Forget what it's like to have small children? Also, chicken!

[1Bryan]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

It won't be based on actual test results, science, reason.....we will divide into two camps.....just like always.

But we don't divide into just 2 camps. The only place that kinda looks like that is the 2 party political system.

On almost any topic, if given more than 2 options, people show a wide array of thought and opinion.

They "rig" a lot of surveys by purposely only giving 2 options. But when given 3 or 4, a different picture emerges.

Example -- on the vaccine --

Surveys that just have a yes/no option for getting the vaccine make the topic seem binary. Because it is rigged for only yes/no.

But ...

Surveys that give a yes/no/unsure option give a different picture. You see that a large chunk is neither pro/anti.

They are unsure. It's not pro-vaccine versus anti-vaccine with a large chunk of the population.

It's more like ... hesitant because this one is being rushed out and in normal conditions would be called "experimental".

Same with masks. Most people are not strictly pro or anti.

They are kinda in-between. Some situations, a mask seems plausible. Others? Silly.

[GordonJ]

My response to the question, yea or nay? I told the nurse, ...


probably, but I won't be the first one in line.

GordonJ

Originally Posted by 1Bryan

But we don't divide into just 2 camps. The only place that kinda looks like that is the 2 party political system.

On almost any topic, if given more than 2 options, people show a wide array of thought and opinion.

They "rig" a lot of surveys by purposely only giving 2 options. But when given 3 or 4, a different picture emerges.

Example -- on the vaccine --

Surveys that just have a yes/no option for getting the vaccine make the topic seem binary. Because it is rigged for only yes/no.

But ...

Surveys that give a yes/no/unsure option give a different picture. You see that a large chunk is neither pro/anti.

They are unsure. It's not pro-vaccine versus anti-vaccine with a large chunk of the population.

It's more like ... hesitant because this one is being rushed out and in normal conditions would be called "experimental".

Same with masks. Most people are not strictly pro or anti.

They are kinda in-between. Some situations, a mask seems plausible. Others? Silly.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by 1Bryan

But we don't divide into just 2 camps. The only place that kinda looks like that is the 2 party political system.

On almost any topic, if given more than 2 options, people show a wide array of thought and opinion.

They show a wide array of thought as individuals...when questioned separately.

Surveys are done with individuals, and multiple options will get multiple answers.

But put 10 people in a focus group, and very soon two things happen. A leader emerges, and the focus group quickly mirrors the leader's choice.

Get two small focus groups, and give them 10 choices of answer to any question. Keep the focus groups apart. Then after a leader is chosen in each group....and they each chose a "Group opinion"....put the two groups together. What happens? They become two sides. Even though there were 10 choices, they become two sides. Why? Because there is safety in a group. And our tribal instinct to act as a group, is stronger than the personal choices we make as individuals.

We think for ourselves when we are thinking in a vacuum.

That all changes when they (we) find out what our "side/camp/tribe/religion/party" thinks.

And then we settle on two thoughts.

Whatever we think the "other tribe" thinks...we take the opposing view.

And we accept what our side thinks.

There are always two sides. That's why we always have two sides in sports, trials, debates......it's the way we think.

It's not that we think in black or white as individuals. It's that we become part of our "Side" and adopt their position.

Right now, we have individual ideas about vaccines...
Remember this when the vaccine becomes available. I don't know which political party will chose which side...but I know that there will be two national opinions about vaccines.

One side will think the vaccine is safe and everyone should take it. The other side will think it's part of a government plan to control the population, or some other claim that makes the vaccine unwanted.

And...one "news" source will not talk about the vaccine side effects...and another "news" channel will only talk about the side effects and how it is killing people.

The reason many people are still unsure about a vaccine...is that they don't yet know the position their leader/side/tribe will choose. Once that position is made clear, the country will divide, as it always does, about 50/50.

About masks. Really, a small percentage thinks about it from a purely health perspective, based on evidence and expert data. In the beginning of the pandemic, we had our own ideas about masks (if we could get them). That solidified after we found out the position our tribe was on.

We'll complain about masks not fitting right, irritating our skin.....

But does the person wear a mask when shopping? Almost everyone either almost always wears a mask, or almost never does.

Ask anyone "How well do you think masks stop the virus?"

There are thousands of different answers. Some thoughtful and some not. Many choices of response. But you'll generally get either "Masks work" or "Masks don't work".

Is this based on science? Experimentation? Testing? Not really.

Based on their answer to this one question,...I can make a few educated guesses about that person.. I have a good idea about their education, level of religiosity, political party, what news they watch, what they think about racism, abortion, evolution, health care and more, legalizing marihuana, and more.

Ever see a flock of birds change direction in the air, in unison? An individual bird will fly wherever it wants to. But in a flock, they act as a flock. That instinct is strong. We all have freedom of choice, and nearly all of us choose a "side" rather than a position outside of any group.

Why are there only two sides in a battle? Surely these people have their own opinions...make their own choices...why aren't there 5 sides in a war?

Why aren't there 5 sides in a debate? Why isn't there just one idea...the search for the truth? Why aren't we all on the same side of any debate?

Why aren't there 5 major political parties? Why not one? If we only had one party..one view...wouldn't we get a lot done? Yes. But getting things done isn't the goal. Defeating our enemy is the goal. One enemy. Not ten. If we have ten things we are fighting against, we embody all ten of those things into one group...the evil group.

We all think we think as individuals. But in almost no way do we behave in a way that is outside what is expected in our group. And their ideas become our ideas. And eventually ten tribes become two tribes.....and here we are. Another debate. Another war. It's always Good VS Evil...never Pretty good guy VS also pretty good guy.

Too much? It feels like too much.

[Odahh]

Claude ,

once their are several vaccines available .. it will be the vaccine companies that put out the dirt on the other vaccines .. it is already starting to happen .. "well that vaccine needs to be kept very cold and you need two doses 6 months apart . now this other vaccine .. much easier to keep at the right temp ..

then it will be .. well at least these 4 are from US Companies and manufactured in The US .. the other option are foreign and haven't gone through the american certification process .

i want to travel next year .. i will get the Vaccine that allows me to do that ..

i tend to get on the bad side of people on either side .. when i talk about automation /ai and robotics and how fast it is changing everything .. the AI and algorithms are going to break up the sides over the next few years and put them in much smaller groups .. it is already starting to happen . becaue that is what the people programing them are programing them to do ..purely for profit motive of course

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

They show a wide array of thought as individuals...when questioned separately.

Surveys are done with individuals, and multiple options will get multiple answers.

But put 10 people in a focus group, and very soon two things happen. A leader emerges, and the focus group quickly mirrors the leader's choice.

Get two small focus groups, and give them 10 choices of answer to any question. Keep the focus groups apart. Then after a leader is chosen in each group....and they each chose a "Group opinion"....put the two groups together. What happens? They become two sides. Even though there were 10 choices, they become two sides. Why? Because there is safety in a group. And our tribal instinct to act as a group, is stronger than the personal choices we make as individuals.

We think for ourselves when we are thinking in a vacuum.

That all changes when they (we) find out what our "side/camp/tribe/religion/party" thinks.

And then we settle on two thoughts.

Whatever we think the "other tribe" thinks...we take the opposing view.

And we accept what our side thinks.

There are always two sides. That's why we always have two sides in sports, trials, debates......it's the way we think.

It's not that we think in black or white as individuals. It's that we become part of our "Side" and adopt their position.

Right now, we have individual ideas about vaccines...
Remember this when the vaccine becomes available. I don't know which political party will chose which side...but I know that there will be two national opinions about vaccines.

One side will think the vaccine is safe and everyone should take it. The other side will think it's part of a government plan to control the population, or some other claim that makes the vaccine unwanted.

And...one "news" source will not talk about the vaccine side effects...and another "news" channel will only talk about the side effects and how it is killing people.

The reason many people are still unsure about a vaccine...is that they don't yet know the position their leader/side/tribe will choose. Once that position is made clear, the country will divide, as it always does, about 50/50.

About masks. Really, a small percentage thinks about it from a purely health perspective, based on evidence and expert data. In the beginning of the pandemic, we had our own ideas about masks (if we could get them). That solidified after we found out the position our tribe was on.

We'll complain about masks not fitting right, irritating our skin.....

But does the person wear a mask when shopping? Almost everyone either almost always wears a mask, or almost never does.

Ask anyone "How well do you think masks stop the virus?"

There are thousands of different answers. Some thoughtful and some not. Many choices of response. But you'll generally get either "Masks work" or "Masks don't work".

Is this based on science? Experimentation? Testing? Not really.

Based on their answer to this one question,...I can make a few educated guesses about that person.. I have a good idea about their education, level of religiosity, political party, what news they watch, what they think about racism, abortion, evolution, health care and more, legalizing marihuana, and more.

Ever see a flock of birds change direction in the air, in unison? An individual bird will fly wherever it wants to. But in a flock, they act as a flock. That instinct is strong. We all have freedom of choice, and nearly all of us choose a "side" rather than a position outside of any group.

Why are there only two sides in a battle? Surely these people have their own opinions...make their own choices...why aren't there 5 sides in a war?

Why aren't there 5 sides in a debate? Why isn't there just one idea...the search for the truth? Why aren't we all on the same side of any debate?

Why aren't there 5 major political parties? Why not one? If we only had one party..one view...wouldn't we get a lot done? Yes. But getting things done isn't the goal. Defeating our enemy is the goal. One enemy. Not ten. If we have ten things we are fighting against, we embody all ten of those things into one group...the evil group.

We all think we think as individuals. But in almost no way do we behave in a way that is outside what is expected in our group. And their ideas become our ideas. And eventually ten tribes become two tribes.....and here we are. Another debate. Another war. It's always Good VS Evil...never Pretty good guy VS also pretty good guy.

Too much? It feels like too much.

I have a slightly different perspective to all the above. I think it safe to say that by the time we are 18-21 or so we have pretty much made up our mind about a lot of the things that you mentioned above, and more. Adhering to a group then, could also just be us going with the herd that most aligns to our prior made opinions.

I recognize that we may find that convenient and it gives a support structure for us along with like minded people which promotes friendships, allegiance and purpose, not to mention protection and security, even though, we in our own minds may not always agree with all that our group collectively does, it's the closest thing to what we believe or wants the world to be like, so we go along with it. We still think/know some of it is stupid or just plain wrong. I don't think you can write us off as having no independent thinking or having a herd mentality.

Dissent and disagreement among the ranks will eventually and just about always does break a group up.

[1Bryan]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

There are always two sides. That's why we always have two sides in sports, trials, debates......it's the way we think.
And...one "news" source will not talk about the vaccine side effects...and another "news" channel will only talk about the side effects and how it is killing people.

The reason many people are still unsure about a vaccine...is that they don't yet know the position their leader/side/tribe will choose. Once that position is made clear, the country will divide, as it always does, about 50/50.

About masks. Really, a small percentage thinks about it from a purely health perspective, based on evidence and expert data. In the beginning of the pandemic, we had our own ideas about masks (if we could get them). That solidified after we found out the position our tribe was on.

We'll complain about masks not fitting right, irritating our skin.....

But does the person wear a mask when shopping? Almost everyone either almost always wears a mask, or almost never does.

Ask anyone "How well do you think masks stop the virus?"

There are thousands of different answers. Some thoughtful and some not. Many choices of response. But you'll generally get either "Masks work" or "Masks don't work".

Is this based on science? Experimentation? Testing? Not really.

Based on their answer to this one question,...I can make a few educated guesses about that person.. I have a good idea about their education, level of religiosity, political party, what news they watch, what they think about racism, abortion, evolution, health care and more, legalizing marihuana, and more.

Ever see a flock of birds change direction in the air, in unison? An individual bird will fly wherever it wants to. But in a flock, they act as a flock. That instinct is strong. We all have freedom of choice, and nearly all of us choose a "side" rather than a position outside of any group.

Why are there only two sides in a battle? Surely these people have their own opinions...make their own choices...why aren't there 5 sides in a war?

Why aren't there 5 sides in a debate? Why isn't there just one idea...the search for the truth? Why aren't we all on the same side of any debate?

Why aren't there 5 major political parties? Why not one? If we only had one party..one view...wouldn't we get a lot done? Yes. But getting things done isn't the goal. Defeating our enemy is the goal. One enemy. Not ten. If we have ten things we are fighting against, we embody all ten of those things into one group...the evil group.

We all think we think as individuals. But in almost no way do we behave in a way that is outside what is expected in our group. And their ideas become our ideas. And eventually ten tribes become two tribes.....and here we are. Another debate. Another war. It's always Good VS Evil...never Pretty good guy VS also pretty good guy.

Too much? It feels like too much.

Hi Claude,

A large chunk of the world has more than 2 major political parties. A lot of debates have more than 2 sides.

And in War, if you only have a surface level of understanding you may think it is clearly 1 side versus another.

It's usually waaay messier than that.

WW2 was a good example. We aligned with Russia. But we didn't become Communist. We weren't even all that "friendly" with Russia during WW2.

And as soon as WW2 was over, we were in a Cold War.

Which got insanely messy geo-politically. War wouldn't actually be that messy if it was black and white. This side versus that side.

It's waaaay messier than that. That's why the Middle East gets so messy. Because it's not one group versus another. It's a bunch of groups that war and occasionally align and then go back to war and then ...

And even in Law, it's recognized that there can be more than just 2 outcomes/parties/sides.

And the idea that you can tell a person's positions on a slew of topics just because of their stance on masks ...

Is just LOL funny to me. I live in a Red county in New York. But everyone wears masks. You can't go anywhere without one on.

And even in a Red county -- which most counties split about 60/40 ... you'll find die-hard Liberals who think masks are silly and they'll tell you how dumb masks are while they hit a joint.

Haha.

Blows some of those stereotypes eh?

People don't neatly check off all the boxes based on their skin color, race, ethnicity or stance on masks.

Political pollsters understand this. R or D -- political pollsters both agree -- the country doesn't just check off the boxes neatly on most topics based on the 2 parties.

I'm not going to drop any more links. Did that way too much before and it was clear nobody clicked them to learn.

But in most polling -- depending on the number of choices and how a question is posed --

You learn that people just don't check those stereotype boxes all that neatly.

You may think they do.

Doesn't make it true tho.

P.S. In marketing and product creation, this truth is how we find opportunity. Because a lot of people do look at a market in a very black/white way and ignore the population that doesn't split that neatly.

In dating advice for guys -- most products and copy is written as if men are either studs or losers with women.

But most guys are average. Some success. Some failure.

And that's actually where the universe is largest and there's a lot of $$$ there that most marketers miss.

But a lot of "know it all" and "can't learn anything new" marketers will tell you that you can't sell dating advice to "average guys" ... only the losers.

And my bank account back in the day was like ... Oh really? Haha.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by lanfear63

I have a slightly different perspective to all the above. I think it safe to say that by the time we are 18-21 or so we have pretty much made up our mind about a lot of the things that you mentioned above, and more. Adhering to a group then, could also just be us going with the heard that most aligns to our prior made opinions.


Dissent and disagreement among the ranks will eventually and just about always does break a group up.

it is about the age of 25 many people get set in their ways that will last a lifetime .. unles there are major outside event that cause change .. but even them many revert back to the mean of their life .

the world we live in though and the pace of technological change will not allow this ..the main bickering of the two sides in the US ..is between the 80 percent of the population struggling to keep up ..or have fallen far behind and have different opinions about how the government should protect them from the threat of change .. or support them because there is no hope they can ever keep up .

back to the pandemic and who it has been more financialy hurt from the lockdowns imposed by a government .. they feel will not help them recover ..even though the government destroyed their livelihoods..but if they get back on their feet the government will happily take much of what they earn .

but the real devide as i have said earlier .. is not the traditional devide people are bickering about .. it is between those who are stuck earning money in a location and those who can earn money and be mobile .. as the mobile earners become take more and more of the total income .. those who where in jobs that supported them when they where in one place will have to find other ways to earn money .

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

My Dearest Darling Princess;

We all think we are on center stage. We can see it in no other way.

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Forget what it's like to have small children? Also, chicken!

My Friend;

What I meant wasn't that we all want attention by being on center stage. I meant that we all view our views as being centrist. In other words, we all think...no matter how much we rant and rave...that we are the one that is completely objective...completely rational...and we see the world as it is, and not like everyone else, who sees it the wrong way.

I wonder how many people actually think;
"Well, I am very far to the left. I am kind of a nut ball"
"Well, my opinions are pretty out there. My views on UFOs are pretty nutty"
"When they say "Racist" they are talking about me...I can be pretty racist".
"I think I'm being pretty unfair to the other party. I'm probably wrong about a lot"

And
"That answer I gave is pretty idiotic. I sound like a lunatic".


One lucid thought, my Christmas wish.

The problem is, every thought we have instantly sounds perfectly lucid, objective, and bulletproof to us. Our brain playing a trick on us.

[lanfear63]

Pay no attention to the title of the video below. If you watch it, and I implore that you do., it is about the Horse Shoe Crab and the US dependency on it to extract a gel from it's amazingly "Blue Blood" that is used in all vaccines in the US, including the up, coming Covid ones to be made on mass here.

The Horse Shoe crab is close to being endangered and it's appearance on the shores of the Gulf once a year to spawn also is a dependency for a couple of other species of animals (migratory birds and turtles) to survive as they feast on the excess eggs it produces.

Usually a sizeable percentage of these crabs is gathered once a year by pharm companies to extract half the blood from each of them. The ones that don't die due to the shock of the extraction are returned to the sea and may or may not survive.

Now the thing is, in Europe, most pharm companies have adopted a new synthetic form of this gel that does not come from these ancient, harmless and totally benign creatures. Not so in the good O'l USA. Thanks to the regulatory powers that seem to think that the alternative gel has not been tested enough, despite it being adopted across Europe.

So, given that we will need 330 million doses of vaccine which will require a lot more gel. Thanks to the powers that be here, we will need the vaccine to be made from partly, Horeshoe Crabs blood.

So, to save our species we might knock out or seriously deplete three other animal species. Thanks to the short sightedness of the powers that be. Always a price to pay for salvation. Not to say I would refuse to take it though as I want to continue living a few more years. I know, I'm just shellfish

Quantum Shifting - Blue Blood - YouTube

[mint tea]

I wonder, what can say now that people, who convinced that the coronavirus is no more serious than the flu and should not be feared. Do they continue to adhere to their opinion? Some people are completely indifferent to everything unless it concerns them personally. They do not want to wear masks because they are uncomfortable, go to parties, do not follow basic safety rules. And when it turns out that they are sick, everyone around is to blame, but not them.