[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Kay King

In a thread like this I don't think it's important that all agree - or that you prove your point. I think it's important to think about the various viewpoints and keep your mind open to the possibilities. It's important to realize people see things differently and that's ok.

^ Gold Nugget ^

[1Bryan]

Part of the problem is this -- Science conversations have to be very very precise.

You can't use apples to oranges, for example, and have a proper science conversation.

Vaccine A and Vaccine B are not the same because they are vaccines.

Mask A and Mask B are not the same because they are masks.

Imagine if they told the general population -- Don't have a proper condom?

Make a homemade one. Haha.

Would we be surprised when pregnancy and STD's were on the rise?

Of course not.

Do we think Tylenol and Pepto Bismol are the same exact thing because they are OTC medicine?

Of course not.

Somehow tho, all masks are the same and all vaccines are the same?

Nope.

But the cool thing is, the general population actually gets it. The masses are NOT arguing about masks and vaccines.

The fringes are. The vested interests are. The propagandized bots are. The out-of-work 20 somethings who think Anime is real and spend half the day checking each other's privilege are. Haha.

The average person is still trying to pay the mortgage, raise a family, have some hobbies, have some friends ... do the laundry, plant the garden, gossip about aunt Brenda and Uncle Rob ... remember if they made that appt they were supposed to ...

They're not debating vaccines and masks online.

Haha it's people like me. Putting off writing my emails. And getting caught up in a WaFo thread lol.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

^ Gold Nugget ^

People may have different viewpoints, but there is only one Reality.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by lanfear63

People may have different viewpoints, but there is only one Reality.

vs. people may that are closed-minded resulting in not having different viewpoints, resulting in living in only one Reality.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

vs. people may that are closed-minded resulting in not having different viewpoints, resulting in living in only one Reality.

Reality remains the same, irrelevant of what angle or stance you view it from.

[Kay King]

But who gets to choose what 'reality' is - could it be we each have our own view of reality? Could it be the reality is so screwed we might all be right...or all be wrong?

[socialentry]

Is this thread reflective of the USA?


If so, it's no wonder you're swimming in a sea of COVID-19.

[1Bryan]

Originally Posted by socialentry

Is this thread reflective of the USA?


If so, it's no wonder you're swimming in a sea of COVID-19.

The UK still has higher deaths per capita than the US. The US is ranked 9th. There are 6 European countries ahead of the US.

Plus we've out-tested, per capita, the rest of the world. When you test more, it's "duh" that you're going to put more positives into the data pool.

That's literally how that works. Test for more data, you catch more data.

It's not complicated. Anyone that captures data on their websites should understand that.

P.S. And I will say this. This Pandemic has shown how little lots of folks understand about data collection and interpretation.

Which gives me pause. Because data is the easiest way to make propaganda sound like scientific truth.

Very few people are willing to say, you know what?

I don't know how that works.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Kay King

But who gets to choose what 'reality' is - could it be we each have our own view of reality? Could it be the reality is so screwed we might all be right...or all be wrong?

Now your heading into esoteric quantum theory and does the tree make a sound if it falls in the forest if there's no one near to hear it territory.

A life long deaf person can feel the vibration of the wind hitting his face but cannot hear the sound it makes. While everybody else can sign to him that a sound exists, it is not his reality. But, is it not just a true reality that his deafness is obscuring?

[Kay King]

If you don't hear a sound - does it exist...for YOU?



Looking at your sig, gotta ask - 'if a man says something in the woods, is he still wrong'?

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Kay King

But who gets to choose what 'reality' is - could it be we each have our own view of reality? Could it be the reality is so screwed we might all be right...or all be wrong?

You and others either seek out the best advise possible and go with that, or create simple experiments to prove whether institutions are pushing flies or not.

Since no one quoted my last bombshell, and some have waffled on about reality, l suspect some want to hang onto their other sources that say that masks work.

Or some don't want to believe the doctors are bent or misinformed, or that our leaders are.

But all l can do is present the best advise possible and if people want to keep wearing them, then that is the way it is, just as long as they do not go after others who don't.

And go to their doctor immediately if they are developing a cough, (a cough is a sure sign of respiratory phenomia, which can be serious, and is a warning that you may want to wear one all day, but your body doesn't)...

[savidge4]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

You and others either seek out the best advise possible and go with that, or create simple experiments to prove whether institutions are pushing flies or not.

Since no one quoted my last bombshell, and some have waffled on about reality, l suspect some want to hang onto their other sources that say that masks work.

Or some don't want to believe the doctors are bent or misinformed, or that our leaders are.

But all l can do is present the best advise possible and if people want to keep wearing them, then that is the way it is, just as long as they do not go after others who don't.

And go to their doctor immediately if they are developing a cough, (a cough is a sure sign of respiratory phenomia, which can be serious, and is a warning that you may want to wear one all day, but your body doesn't)...

When someone such as myself has to rely on Aussie news to understand what is going on in my own country.. there are issues.

When deep state is no longer "Deep" and there is looming "resets" that have been presented publicly... one has to consider ends to means. I don't trust the WHO - nor their studies.. I don't trust the CDC - nor their studies. We can only believe what it is we believe - because at this point any level of "TRUTH" is non existent. We are being told what is wanted of us to believe.

In March and April we were living in troubling times... Today, its beyond troubling. W A Y beyond troubling.

Not speaking to you directly but we all need to get our heads out of the sand and look past the need to wear a mask or not... look at the trade deals being made as of late... look at the lack of any law enforcement involvement in the United States election. ( DOJ, FBI, CIA ) there is NONE. Masks are a single grain of ice at the top of a very large iceberg... And it keeps us minions busy as more dubious moves are made internationally.

[socialentry]

Originally Posted by 1Bryan

The UK still has higher deaths per capita than the US. The US is ranked 9th.

My sincere congratulations.

[Profit Traveler]

Recently there was some 1000% Truth in the media. When a media owner said recently with no hesitation that his "news" media publishes current B.S. because it's good for business.

That is really how we got here in the middle of a pandemic in the first place. Like falling Dominoes it's all connected.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by savidge4

When someone such as myself has to rely on Aussie news to understand what is going on in my own country.. there are issues.

When deep state is no longer "Deep" and there is looming "resets" that have been presented publicly... one has to consider ends to means. I don't trust the WHO - nor their studies.. I don't trust the CDC - nor their studies. We can only believe what it is we believe - because at this point any level of "TRUTH" is non existent. We are being told what is wanted of us to believe.

In March and April we were living in troubling times... Today, its beyond troubling. W A Y beyond troubling.

True, the CDC say one thing then contradict it, as does the WHO, although some of what they say is valid.

And Sweden, Holland and a handful of other countries just do what we have always done, but this time around thanks to the nonsense started in the 80's, we have idealism mixed in with fear.

Not speaking to you directly but we all need to get our heads out of the sand and look past the need to wear a mask or not... look at the trade deals being made as of late... look at the lack of any law enforcement involvement in the United States election. ( DOJ, FBI, CIA ) there is NONE. Masks are a single grain of ice at the top of a very large iceberg... And it keeps us minions busy as more dubious moves are made internationally.

Agreed, l overheard today that we have been told off, about not wearing a mask correctly, (l will look that up later, since it is my day off). But how do you breathe through a mask in 33dg heat, with 80 humidity, you don't, or feel faint or suffer from heatstroke.

Most here are letting their noses through so they can breathe, but his sources are never wrong, and the more he pisses us off, the better.

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

Recently there was some 1000% Truth in the media. When a media owner said recently with no hesitation that his "news" media publishes current B.S. because it's good for business.

That is really how we got here in the middle of a pandemic in the first place. Like falling Dominoes it's all connected.

You will probably need to post the link here, (walking on hallowed ground).

[Profit Traveler]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

You will probably need to post the link here, (walking on hallowed ground).

"Newsmax CEO in Off the Rails Interview". It def has political overtones so did not link to it but he definitely says Total B.S. is "Great for News". In a Dangerous Pandemic what a statement.


Shocking not shocking.

Maybe that he said it out-loud.

[Declan O Flaherty]

Are deaths in 2020, overall, any higher than the previous years? Of course they are. They must be. There's a killer virus on the loose. One thing is for sure, the deaths among the elderly must be higher than previous years...

https://web.archive.org/web/20201126...ue-to-covid-19

They pulled that article because it puts yet another nail in the coffin of this false deadly virus narrative.

Gotta love the waybackmachine.

Too many lies with this Covid story. Too many irregularities. Too much bad science. Too much propaganda. And far too much censoring of "experts" who speak out against the lockdowns, masks, and social distancing, which obviously do nothing.

The people who bought into this obvious lie, must be feeling very uncomfortable. I mean, there's only so much mental gymnastics you can do to keep propping up a silly story riddled with so many contradictions.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

"Newsmax CEO in Off the Rails Interview". It def has political overtones so did not link to it but he definitely says Total B.S. is "Great for News". In a Dangerous Pandemic what a statement.

Shocking not shocking.

Maybe that he said it out-loud.

Ok, couldn't find it, or all Google gave me was the V...., F..... T....... line.

Best to PM me or tell me elsewhere...

[Mark Singletary]

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

Are deaths in 2020, overall, any higher than the previous years? Of course they are. They must be. There's a killer virus on the loose. One thing is for sure, the deaths among the elderly must be higher than previous years...

https://web.archive.org/web/20201126...ue-to-covid-19

They pulled that article because it puts yet another nail in the coffin of this false deadly virus narrative.

Gotta love the waybackmachine.

Clarification as to the article removal: https://www.jhunewsletter.com/articl...ue-to-covid-19

Mark

[Profit Traveler]

14-year-old girl wins $25,000 prize for research on potential coronavirus cure.

https://www.sciencealert.com/teen-wi...rm-coronavirus

Amazing,

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

But who gets to choose what 'reality' is - could it be we each have our own view of reality? Could it be the reality is so screwed we might all be right...or all be wrong?

We are all wrong.

An artist was once complimented on his "style". He said something like, " If I have a style, that just means I'm making mistakes. All styles are just mistakes. I try to make my art look like the real thing. Anything that deviates from that is a mistake."

There is a reality. It can be measured, given enough information.

But we are all dealing with incomplete information...or incorrect information....or we are misinterpreting the correct information given.. At least in this thread.

And so we all argue, thinking that our interpretation is the truth.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

And so we all argue, thinking that our interpretation is the truth.

As unfortunate as it is, perception is the truth.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

As unfortunate as it is, perception is the truth.

You mean like a personal truth? Then I meant reality. When I say truth, I mean reality.

There is one reality.

I should have said "And so we all argue, thinking that our interpretation is reality."

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

We are all wrong.

An artist was once complimented on his "style". He said something like, " If I have a style, that just means I'm making mistakes. All styles are just mistakes. I try to make my art look like the real thing. Anything that deviates from that is a mistake."

There is a reality. It can be measured, given enough information.

But we are all dealing with incomplete information...or incorrect information....or we are misinterpreting the correct information given.. At least in this thread.

And so we all argue, thinking that our interpretation is the truth.

so the commenter who was probably refering to the artist style based on the realist look.. when they said style .. verse what the artist though style meant ..

we construct our reality based on words and the definition of those words we use .. that may not be the definition others use ..

we can bring this back to the topic of coronavirus .. and we can see a very large divergence.. in what fact are .. which experts science is real and which is fraud ..

the problem is people are argueing with each other using the perfect method that solidifies and cause people to protect then justify their view of reality ..

in june or july when most of this crisis has passed .. and we either have universal basic income implemented or are basically setting things up to implement it ... there will be a range of new things to argue endlessly about .

In my reality ..those are two things i see . that vaccines ending the pandemic .by summer time ..and implementation of Universal basic income ain many many countries next year..first iteration of it ..in the US will be a monthly stimulus check for 3-4 months .

fact based realities tend not support long term survival .. how many people looking at the facts chose ..the people believing the planetet is doomed based on the large amounts of fact ..and either not having children or getting or sterilized or only having 1 child ..actually lose .. to those who still have several children

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Kay King

In a thread like this I don't think it's important that all agree - or that you prove your point. I think it's important to think about the various viewpoints and keep your mind open to the possibilities. It's important to realize people see things differently and that's ok.

Originally Posted by Jeffery

^ Gold Nugget ^

Originally Posted by lanfear63

People may have different viewpoints, but there is only one Reality.

Originally Posted by Jeffery

vs. people may that are closed-minded resulting in not having different viewpoints, resulting in living in only one Reality.

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Reality remains the same, irrelevant of what angle or stance you view it from.

Originally Posted by Kay King

But who gets to choose what 'reality' is - could it be we each have our own view of reality? Could it be the reality is so screwed we might all be right...or all be wrong?

I don't know about all that. What I do know is COVID kills and that is all the reality I need to know and do my best to prevent death for me, my family, friends and everyone.


COVID kills

[Profit Traveler]

So with respect to COVID how is everyone dealing with friends, family, people you respected revealing themselves to be nuttier than a fruitcake in 2020?

[Declan O Flaherty]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

Clarification as to the article removal: https://www.jhunewsletter.com/articl...ue-to-covid-19

Mark

So you believe the story created around the article, after the fact, but not the article itself? That's like saying masks don't work 4 months ago, and now telling you a story of why they are so important.

How naive are you?

Read the damn article and make your own mind up. Next you'll be telling me fact checkers are really fact checkers because the name says they are. Or that Sweden got it horrible wrong. Or that the people who died from Covid weren't over the age of life expectancy and had at least two other serious health issues.

You have been played.

Remember all the contradictions and inconsistencies and propaganda and fear mongering? Remember how ALL their models were vastly exaggerated, and completely wrong? Remember how they told you Sweden would lose millions if they didn't lock down? Remember when they told you masks didn't work? Remember when they told you the test kits were accurate?

Remember? Shall I go?

Because it wouldn't be difficult to list out a couple dozen provable lies these same people fed you from the start. How many more do you need before the penny drops?

Maybe you should ask the tens of thousands of REAL experts around the world who have been trying to warn you about this virus, and how it is just another flu? Weird how you don't see any of these experts on your telly, eh? They must be idiots, or just not clued in, right?

But hey, let's just keep listening to the very people who keep getting wrong, again and again and again and again. Because look, when they get it wrong, they just have to write you a nice little cover story to get you onside again.

How naive you all truly are.

[Kay King]

...and you believe the story in spite of the explanation of the removal and of problems with the facts in the story....

As the explanation was detailed and came AFTER the article - why would you still believe the article? Simple - it fits your opinion. Others believe the retraction article for the same reason.

Two sides to one story....again.

Declan - will you take the vaccine or do you think it's unnecessary? We have one extended family member who swears covid is all a conspiracy (we just learned this from his aging parents) but then complains that HE will have to wait months to get the vaccine. Huh?

This pandemic gives a whole new variation on 'people watching', doesn't it?

i think priorities should be everon over 55 .. gets vaccines first .. then let younger people get vaccinated as they wish.. and as i have mention .. require documentation of vaccination to get on a plane ..

First priority will be medical personnel and first responders....then the elderly and I would expect that group to start with nursing home residents. I don't expect an attempt at mandatory vaccination but some public transport or events might require proof of vaccination at least for a while.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

How naive you all truly are.

A philosophical thought, for all of us. A short story.

It's wrong to scream "Fire!" is a crowded theater. In fact, it's the most popular example of an exception to free speech.


But what about the opposite? This is just a story. Surely, this could never happen.

You're in a theater, you smell smoke.....you see the flames...and you say nothing?

And then others start yelling "Fire!", and the theater ushers start leading people to the exits.....but you sit there and yell "You're all idiots! There is no fire".

And the flames start consuming the building, and you yell, to the few who will listen "Ignore the screaming people. You are being fed lies. There is no fire".

And then the fire trucks arrive, hoses are hooked up, and the flames are fought. And you still yell (to the few listeners still there) "Everyone here is lying. There is no fire. You are being duped!".

And...after the fire is under control, and it's reported that 20 people have died in the fire...still....still you yell, to anyone who will listen..."You are fools. I have proof there is no fire. I can list a thousand theaters that haven't burned down. The fire fighters are lying. The ambulance drivers are lying. The hospitals that are treating the burn victims are lying. The relatives that claimed the bodies...are all lying. There is no fire. How naïve you all truly are".

If nobody listens, what's the harm? But some of us are weak. A few follow the loudest noise. A few will listen.

It's just a story.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

So with respect to COVID how is everyone dealing with friends, family, people you respected revealing themselves to be nuttier than a fruitcake in 2020?

Most of my close personal friends, acquaintances and relationships think I'm the nutter...and they are currently "dealing" with me

I on the other hand figured out after many years that someone i was starting to get close to is a super racist POS...and I wiped my ass accordingly.

If nothing else, this pandemic has revealed how ugly some people are.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

So with respect to COVID how is everyone dealing with friends, family, people you respected revealing themselves to be nuttier than a fruitcake in 2020?

To me, they aren't nutty, or fools. They are normal people that react the way most people react. But I'm used to everyone around me believing things that I find insane. And presenting arguments that are irrational. If that sounds judgmental, it's because I am. Very very judgmental.

And everything I think is true has to be true.

that's not true. I have no idea what is true or not. I only know what arguments are rational or not. And I can tell which way those arguments lean. Of course, all that assumes that I'm not a blithering idiot. And if I am, how would I know?

Anyway, I have lost two very close friendships over a combination of politics and the virus. Two men I loved and respected. And they revealed a side of them I didn't know could exist.

I don't mind at all if someone disagrees with me, or even if they believe a completely opposing set of "facts". They are still good people.

But 2020 (and the very few issues that are contained in it) on occasion reveal...and maybe aggravate.....a certain meanness. Even cruelty.

There is a book titled Ordinary Men. It explains how normal, decent men slowly became Nazis. The psychology involved, I see it occasionally.

Not that any of the people I know are nazis. But the psychology, the slow bending of acceptable views...I do see that.

[Mark Singletary]

You apparently don't know a thing about me.

You ass-u-me that I'm a certain way because I say certain things that may fit a stereotype. But you or anyone else trying to play that game are 100% wrong about me.

I posted the link, because as a moderator we have to make a judgment call on things like outgoing links. A number of posts with outgoing links have been deleted in this thread because the linked content was political or other reasons.

I read the article but wanted to find out why a November article just posted was already deleted. So, I went to the newsletter site to determine if it was really associated with JHU. That's when I found the explanation.

Why do you ass-u-me that I don't believe the original article just because I posted the rest of the story? You would be 100% wrong if you think just because I posted the update, the article doesn't concern me.

If you would read a person's past posts before throwing out your baseless assumptions about that person, you would know that I question a LOT about this thing. I question the death rate, the severity, why everything is awful all the time even when it's better, why lockdowns didn't work the first time (even in places that were much stricter than the US), whether masks work as well as they say they do, why is there a political slant to almost all news and some say even within WHO and the CDC guidance, the inconsistent guidance (masks no good, masks good), etc. etc.

I have questioned, in this thread, the excess death rate for example. I've talked about people getting diagnosed with COVID because they have a sore throat or liver issues or whatever unrelated.

Finally, I try to be open minded about all of this. I can take from both sides and am a big enough boy to make up my own mind.

What about you? You are absolutely convinced, it seems, that it's all a scam. So, what is killing people? Is no one dying at all and people are just pencil whipping a death certificate out of the blue? A guy falls out of a tree or something unrelated and they call it a COVID death 250,000 times?

One big problem with your thousands of experts is that they come across as nut jobs in a lot of cases. So, people have a hard time dealing with that.

Mark

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

So you believe the story created around the article, after the fact, but not the article itself? That's like saying masks don't work 4 months ago, and now telling you a story of why they are so important.

How naive are you?

Read the damn article and make your own mind up. Next you'll be telling me fact checkers are really fact checkers because the name says they are. Or that Sweden got it horrible wrong. Or that the people who died from Covid weren't over the age of life expectancy and had at least two other serious health issues.

You have been played.

Remember all the contradictions and inconsistencies and propaganda and fear mongering? Remember how ALL their models were vastly exaggerated, and completely wrong? Remember how they told you Sweden would lose millions if they didn't lock down? Remember when they told you masks didn't work? Remember when they told you the test kits were accurate?

Remember? Shall I go?

Because it wouldn't be difficult to list out a couple dozen provable lies these same people fed you from the start. How many more do you need before the penny drops?

Maybe you should ask the tens of thousands of REAL experts around the world who have been trying to warn you about this virus, and how it is just another flu? Weird how you don't see any of these experts on your telly, eh? They must be idiots, or just not clued in, right?

But hey, let's just keep listening to the very people who keep getting wrong, again and again and again and again. Because look, when they get it wrong, they just have to write you a nice little cover story to get you onside again.

How naive you all truly are.

[Profit Traveler]

I am seeing biggest COVID surges headlines and schools forced to open headlines right after each other....it's a brain breaker. Holiday Travel? If I was COVID.....life is good.

As Internet Marketers we almost want to rejoice that so many can be so easily manipulated and willingly and passionately pour cash into their viewpoints.

[Princess Balestra]

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

You have been played.

Remember ...

Which end you blowin', poppet?


Frickin' mattahs, yanno.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

I am seeing biggest COVID surges headlines and schools forced to open headlines right after each other....it's a brain breaker. Holiday Travel? If I was COVID.....life is good.

As Internet Marketers we almost want to rejoice that so many can be so easily manipulated and willingly and passionately pour cash into their viewpoints.

Money is made at the extremes. Both in selling and in fund raising.


Added later; Just found out that my wife's sister's ex-husband just died from Covid. I think I met him once or twice maybe 30 years ago. He may have been 80 when he died.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

I am seeing biggest COVID surges headlines and schools forced to open headlines right after each other....it's a brain breaker. Holiday Travel? If I was COVID.....life is good.

As Internet Marketers we almost want to rejoice that so many can be so easily manipulated and willingly and passionately pour cash into their viewpoints.

Please speak for yourself.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Money is made at the extremes. Both in selling and in fund raising.


Added later; Just found out that my wife's sister's ex-husband just died from Covid. I think I met him once or twice maybe 30 years ago. He may have been 80 when he died.

Except for here (WF), a few super close friends, and my mother, anytime that I mention knowing people who have died because of covid, I get met with enough skepticism that they might as well look me in the eye and call me a liar.

This includes one of my own brothers who, caught covid and spent time in the bronx ICU.

It's pretty insulting and annoying, but what are ya gonna do? It is what it is.

[DWolfe]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Except for here (WF), a few super close friends, and my mother, anytime that I mention knowing people who have died because of covid, I get met with enough skepticism that they might as well look me in the eye and call me a liar.

This includes one of my own brothers who, caught covid and spent time in the bronx ICU.

It's pretty insulting and annoying, but what are ya gonna do? It is what it is.

Scary to think a virus has come out of China, killing thousands of people. Only to get reactions like that. Sad very sad.

On another note they were busy here talking about 10 people is all that is allowed to gather on Thanksgiving. Yet the next day they showed places in the area. Where hundreds of people were lined up waiting to get into the stores. They did show one mall that was on the quiet side and claim Black Friday sales were down ?

[Profit Traveler]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

Please speak for yourself.

I just pointed out a potential reality.

The fact is, someone with a brain, is going to fill the void of this mass of people that think following science is an insult. It is scary yet inevitable.

I am also pretty sure whatever your view point is you would and have poured money into it.
I heard marketers analyze trends and use that data to make a living.

Speaking for myself...I just like to present relevant on topic facts and people will be repelled or attracted to them.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

I am seeing biggest COVID surges headlines and schools forced to open headlines right after each other....it's a brain breaker. Holiday Travel? If I was COVID.....life is good.

As Internet Marketers we almost want to rejoice that so many can be so easily manipulated and willingly and passionately pour cash into their viewpoints.

Originally Posted by Jeffery

Please speak for yourself.

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

I choose my words rationally, and factually my old friend.

When you state "As Internet Marketers we" means all Internet Marketers. That is a blanket statement you have applied to all Internet Marketers which forms a stereotype. You do not know that to be a fact or you think that is a fact.

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

The fact is, someone with a brain, is going to fill the void of this mass of people that think following science is an insult. It is scary yet inevitable.

That is not a fact. It is your logic.

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

I am also pretty sure whatever your view point is you would and have poured money into it.
I heard marketers analyze trends and use that data to make a living.

Again, that is not fact, it is your logic.

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

Speaking for myself...I just like to present facts and people will be repelled or attracted to them.

Facts without proof of said facts is nothing more than hearsay. Your action "I just like to present facts and people will be repelled or attracted to them." is not based on facts.

[Profit Traveler]

"In the minute it took me to write this post.. someone died of Covid 19. RIP."

Your sig speaks volumes....the rest is a nothing sandwich compared to that.

I know how it all came to be but 2020 was not a facts based era in my opinion.


Optimistic going forward.

[Seeking Affiliate]

2020 is a year, not an era.

[Claude Whitacre]

We are now (The US) at;

About 160,000 daily new cases (7 day average)

98,691 now in hospitals with Covid. Twice what it was a month ago. Nearly twice what it was at the previous peak in July. A leading indicator of very bad news in a week or two.


About 1,600 deaths a day as a 7 day running average. Yesterday it was 2,473. Nearly the single day record this year, but not quite.

Well, it didn't just go away in the Summer, like some people thought. It didn't just go away on November 4th, like some people thought.

The good news is that a very tested and approved vaccine (2 of them) are now being flown to distribution points across the US. Waiting for final approval to dispense.

This is really happening. Most news sources say a week or two, and health care workers and the aged in health care facilities will be the first to get it. A few months from now, most of us will have it. At least that's what the main news channels are saying.

Anyway, I hope we are all healthy when we get the vaccine. In many ways this has been an exceedingly stressful year for us all, I think.

[Kay King]

Well, it didn't just go away in the Summer, like some people thought. It didn't just go away on November 4th, like some people thought.

And it hasn't gone away with wearing masks - or with closing businesses. I heard a news person yesterday saying 'see, numbers are up due to the holiday' - he said that the day AFTER Thanksgiving....

People keep saying 'follow the science' - but the CDC and science has been saying 'kids need to be in school' - 'children are safe in school'....some schools are open, some not. Some are open today, closed tomorrow...back and forth.

Nothing we have done has stopped this virus and at some point we need to ask whether the economic disaster we are creating is balanced by 'steps taken' that haven't changed anything. I wonder if we are creating the ultimate 'nanny state' - just a thought.

There were small business owners arrested recently for refusing to close....but at the same time there were stories of local and state politicians ignoring the very rules THEY dictated for others.

There is no logic in saying small retail shops and salons cannot re-open...but contact sports are permitted. No logic to closing businesses and churches and permitting public protests.

My guess is before long in some city or state - or across the country - business owners will say 'no more' and will re-open en masse.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

And it hasn't gone away with wearing masks - or with closing businesses.

I haven't included the rest of your post, because I agree with it.

No, the virus hasn't gone away with wearing masks. But why?

A little of it is that masks aren't 100% effective. There are still surfaces you can touch that still have active virus on them. You can still rub your eyes and get the virus. And the majority of masks don't stop you from breathing in the virus, if it's hanging in the air.

But masks are exceedingly effective in stopping others from getting the virus from you, if you wear a mask.

And, as unfortunate as this is, the US has a huge section of its population that refuses to wear masks. So, of course the virus won't go away, if only some of us wear masks.

But wearing masks reduces the cases.

The states (or even counties) where masks are mandated, generally show a lower rate of infection than when masks are not mandated. But even mandating wearing masks, doesn't make some people wear them.

Anyway, I agree about the businesses. If the people wear masks and wash their hands more often, the danger of infection is minimal.

Originally Posted by Kay King

Nothing we have done has stopped this virus

That's very true. Wearing a mask (assuming we all do it) slows the spread considerably.

Even the vaccines won't stop the virus. Why? Because, like wearing masks, a percentage of the population just...won't...do...it.

And then we will get to read the posts saying that the vaccine is killing us, or that the vaccine is a plot.

[Profit Traveler]

Originally Posted by Seeking Affiliate

2020 is a year, not an era.

Going out of my way to keep it out of political realm.


2020 was/is much much more than "a year" as history will remember it.


An era began and an era ended in 2020.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I haven't included the rest of your post, because I agree with it.

No, the virus hasn't gone away with wearing masks. But why?

A little of it is that masks aren't 100% effective. There are still surfaces you can touch that still have active virus on them. You can still rub your eyes and get the virus. And the majority of masks don't stop you from breathing in the virus, if it's hanging in the air.

But masks are exceedingly effective in stopping others from getting the virus from you, if you wear a mask.

And, as unfortunate as this is, the US has a huge section of its population that refuses to wear masks. So, of course the virus won't go away, if only some of us wear masks.

But wearing masks reduces the cases.

The states (or even counties) where masks are mandated, generally show a lower rate of infection than when masks are not mandated. But even mandating wearing masks, doesn't make some people wear them.

Anyway, I agree about the businesses. If the people wear masks and wash their hands more often, the danger of infection is minimal.



That's very true. Wearing a mask (assuming we all do it) slows the spread considerably.

Even the vaccines won't stop the virus. Why? Because, like wearing masks, a percentage of the population just...won't...do...it.

And then we will get to read the posts saying that the vaccine is killing us, or that the vaccine is a plot.

Q-anon and others have been claiming that all along. Apparently, it's an incredibly large number of people who believe that...

1) the vaccines are a plot to inject you with trace-ables in some form of population control scheme.
2) it is orchestrated by bill gates
3) & and a democratic pedophilia ring led by bill and hillary

... that nonsense is just the tip of the iceberg.

I've lost two brothers to this q bullshit.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Q-anon and others have been claiming that all along. Apparently, it's an incredibly large number of people who believe that...

1) the vaccines are a plot to inject you with trace-ables in some form of population control scheme.
2) it is orchestrated by bill gates
3) & and a democratic pedophilia ring led by bill and hillary

... that nonsense is just the tip of the iceberg.

I've lost two brothers to this q bullshit.

We have a vaccine that has just been approved, and we have ordered 10 million doses, (the same one the UK is going to use) or 10 m out of our population of 26 million in Australia, (obviously to hopefully vaccinate more than 30% of our population which would create an artificial high enough herd immunity to open everything up again)?

This is the Bill Gates RNA one, or the one with rumors flying. But the fact still remains that all vaccines need at least 10 years to be deemed safe. Which means that it is a balanced decision with high risk groups.

And the general population? We will wait and see in 10 years time?

"Covid is a scam" has been taken out of context by mass media to show that concerned citizens are idiots, "The way we have handled it is a Scam is more accurate", (Kay has already covered the reasons).

Which gets back to what l said earlier, or Time Magazine, gives evidence supposedly about other things, which l won't discuss here as it is religious, so since some believe in that to a religious level, what they say about Masks has to be true.

It is not true, since self experimentation verify s it, (the religious one) nor the best medical body on the planet, it is true since it has to be true, since l have believed it for 30 years, and have thrown everything at it, including myself.

People can check each other all they want, (peer reviewed papers can be bent) and is more of a cop-out than valuation. Finding valuation through data sets that actually do not contradict or are wrong is valuation.

A case in point with masks is the best medical body says that they are useless, so they are wrong or bent or something else since if they are right then Times and others could be wrong about the other subject they cover and that cannot be untrue, because l believe it completely.

Some really need to believe in institutions, since they cover other things, and some really need to believe in Doctors and other higher up, (which is understandle) and some don't.

Wear a mask correctly or not, it doesn't make any difference, since fine particles travel up to 30 metres through the air, from your lungs.

But some will rationalize that away also since it creates doubts on the other one. Some are just covering their belief systems with a Rational thinking sticker.

You have to read between the lines to uncover the truth.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

A case in point with masks is the best medical body says that they are useless,

No. I read the whole article. They said that masks were mandatory in hospitals and almost useless out in public.

But why hospitals?

Because hospitals are buildings full of people having conversations.

And indoors, the virus isn't exposed to ultraviolet light, that kills it. And indoors, we are all breathing each other's air.

And indoors, we tend to be closer together. And in many buildings, conversations are happening.

And the biggest reason that hospitals need to mandate mask wearing? Covid patients don't wear masks.

So you have an indoor environment, with lots of people. That are talking to each other, and many of them cannot wear masks.

So, it's impetrative that the health care workers wear them. Why? Because they work. And why do they have to be the N95 masks? Because these masks are designed to protect the wearer, not just the people around them. The regular masks are designed to protect the people around the wearer, but not so much the mask wearer.

So...what other buildings are full of people talking? Gyms, churches, indoor events, restaurants, bars, busy stores, wear a mask. And if you work in a building...with other people...masks are essential.

If you are walking your dog in the park, not so much.

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Wear a mask correctly or not, it doesn't make any difference, since fine particles travel up to 30 metres through the air, from your lungs.

Yes. Unless you are wearing a mask.

Originally Posted by tagiscom

You have to read between the lines to uncover the truth.

Yes. The only way to know the truth is to ignore what is being said. Because only by thinking about what you didn't read, can you know what should have been written.

It's summed up in this famous quote; "As it has not been written, so shall it be".

[Kay King]

I'm not sure why people continue to argue about masks...it's useless. We are asked to wear them - it's not a big deal. If you are unwilling to cooperate simply stay away from those who are wearing masks - far away.

I will be interested to see the truth about when this virus began - because we haven't been told the truth about it yet. Not saying that is deliberate - maybe the truth was buried in the emergency created.

In december a friend returned from China - his work requires several weeks in China every couple of months. He was stick when he returned - withint a couple weeks he was healthy again - but his wife had 'caught' what he had.

I had talked with them just after he was better and before she became ill - and 2 weeks later - in January - I was very sick for over two weeks. Sick enough to go to the doctor which I seldom need to do. The doctor said 'not seasonal flu - not sure what this is' - gave me strong decongestant and cough meds....and about 10 days later I started feeling better.\

A few months ago my doctor said 'you may have had covid in January' but it had been months so we didn't bother with an antibody test.

NOW many blood tests taken in the second half of 2019 are showing antibodies to covid. The growing belief, I've read, is that covid-19 had been in the US for months before the CDC and medical community noticed it.

Don't know - or really care - what the timeline was - but it will be interesting in the future to read the actual FACTS about covid - not the hype or competing experts or political pundits...but the truth about when it began...where it came from....and whether a pandemic could have been avoided had medical experts around the world 'caught on' sooner. I don't want to assign any blame - but would love to know true story.