[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I had talked with them just after he was better and before she became ill - and 2 weeks later - in January - I was very sick for over two weeks. Sick enough to go to the doctor which I seldom need to do. The doctor said 'not seasonal flu - not sure what this is' - gave me strong decongestant and cough meds....and about 10 days later I started feeling better.
.

I'm sorry you were ill. I'm glad you're better now. Yeah, ten days is a long time to feel bad if it's the flu..

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I'm
Don't know - or really care - what the timeline was - but it will be interesting in the future to read the actual FACTS about covid - not the hype or competing experts or political pundits...but the truth about when it began...where it came from....and whether a pandemic could have been avoided had medical experts around the world 'caught on' sooner. I don't want to assign any blame - but would love to know true story.

where i was in florida .. many people got the same kind of illness you where talking about.. only it wasn't killing people ..elderly people got sick .. but recovered .. and i have been hearing a similar story around the country ..

that why antibody testing is so important ..

[Kay King]

Sometimes you just can't make this stuff up:


From the official 'covid update' - the Ohio Dept of Health is recommending Ohioans not travel to Ohio....this was a serious announcement made yesterday.

Ohio has been added to the Ohio Department of Health’s COVID-19 Travel Advisory map, meaning the state is recommending Ohioans avoid traveling to Ohio, and those entering Ohio after traveling from Ohio are advised to self-quarantine in Ohio for 14 days.

Obviously, outside of The Matrix or a Christopher Nolan movie, this is physically impossible. To be clear, you are free to move about the state, but the ODH recommends staying home except for necessary trips.

[Profit Traveler]

It is a tsunami of infections now.

"Someone" mentioned that was coming about 25 pages of thread ago...

We do not discuss COVID strategies here because there has never been any.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

No. I read the whole article. They said that masks were mandatory in hospitals and almost useless out in public.

But why hospitals?

Because hospitals are buildings full of people having conversations.

And indoors, the virus isn't exposed to ultraviolet light, that kills it. And indoors, we are all breathing each other's air.

And indoors, we tend to be closer together. And in many buildings, conversations are happening.

And the biggest reason that hospitals need to mandate mask wearing? Covid patients don't wear masks.

So you have an indoor environment, with lots of people. That are talking to each other, and many of them cannot wear masks.

So, it's impetrative that the health care workers wear them. Why? Because they work. And why do they have to be the N95 masks? Because these masks are designed to protect the wearer, not just the people around them. The regular masks are designed to protect the people around the wearer, but not so much the mask wearer.

So...what other buildings are full of people talking? Gyms, churches, indoor events, restaurants, bars, busy stores, wear a mask. And if you work in a building...with other people...masks are essential.

If you are walking your dog in the park, not so much.

Yes. Unless you are wearing a mask.

Yes. The only way to know the truth is to ignore what is being said. Because only by thinking about what you didn't read, can you know what should have been written.

It's summed up in this famous quote; "As it has not been written, so shall it be".

You forgot to mention that in Hospitals they regularly replace their masks and sanitize the visors, and replace their gowns, etc.

The general public whip a mask out of their pocket, etc, where it can pick up several germs, since they are expensive and most since they have lost their job, and are seeing their home ownership dream disappearing, are going to reuse it over and over.

Seems that the remark about 30 metres has gone in one ear, one breaths out Covid from their lungs as very fine particles that travel freely through a mask, and then enter another wearing one, correctly, brand new, doesn't matter.

Masks have limits to the density of the material to allow oxygen to get through, and all masks allow Covid to penetrate, or the material is not fine enough. Rubber masks with air filters are the only ones with 100% protection, (and they leak if the wearing has to bend over).

Yes. The only way to know the truth is to ignore what is being said. Because only by thinking about what you didn't read, can you know what should have been written.

It's summed up in this famous quote; "As it has not been written, so shall it be"

Lol, that is about the fumiest thing you have said, so we should all blindly accept what NASA and Times Mag, says about other things, but when it comes to medicai stuff, we should all just ignore the best advise on the planet, sine if we go with them it is casting doubt on the other stuff?

And yeah, l read what they said, so it probably isn't true since l read it?

I will post the mask satire video elsewhere, get more laughs!

[Kay King]

The greatest fear is the loss of control - and that's what we have with this pandemic. We do everything we can and clearly none of it is working very well.


On national news the other day it was claimed that '42% of Americans say they do not trust the vaccine and will not take it'. That's too large a percentage (and who came up with the number anyway?) to be only 'deniers' so I guess it's 'deniers and hysterics'?



It's like for months people have been shouting 'do something, do something, do something'....and now they are shouting 'don't do that'.


I'll get a vaccination as soon as someone points a needle at me and i would hope others would do the same. If there is significant refusal to take the vaccine, would not be surprised to find proof of vaccination required for kids in school, to fly on airlines, etc.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Kay King

The greatest fear is the loss of control - and that's what we have with this pandemic. We do everything we can and clearly none of it is working very well.

No, we don't, No, we didn't, we never have, not once, not one state or city in the USA, has ever done everything we can.

And just because you keep saying that, doesn't make it so.

For instance, if you disagree, tell me, how is/has Florida done everything possible?

And since you said that you don't know why people are mentioning masks anymore.

Seven states have made masks mandatory on some level or another, and the data has shown that spread of the disease has been lowered in each of those places.

Pretty much proving that lockdowns are not necessary to mitigate the disease.

But everyone is so busy tripping over the smoke and mirrors and misinformation about your right not to be told what to do and blah blah blah they are missing the entire point, which is, and has been for months,
ventilation, distancing, masks, and hygiene equal no lockdowns.

And that's just one reason to keep mentioning the masks.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I'm not sure why people continue to argue about masks...it's useless. We are asked to wear them - it's not a big deal. If you are unwilling to cooperate simply stay away from those who are wearing masks - far away.

I will be interested to see the truth about when this virus began - because we haven't been told the truth about it yet. Not saying that is deliberate - maybe the truth was buried in the emergency created.

In december a friend returned from China - his work requires several weeks in China every couple of months. He was stick when he returned - withint a couple weeks he was healthy again - but his wife had 'caught' what he had.

I had talked with them just after he was better and before she became ill - and 2 weeks later - in January - I was very sick for over two weeks. Sick enough to go to the doctor which I seldom need to do. The doctor said 'not seasonal flu - not sure what this is' - gave me strong decongestant and cough meds....and about 10 days later I started feeling better.

A few months ago my doctor said 'you may have had covid in January' but it had been months so we didn't bother with an antibody test.

Originally Posted by Odahh

where i was in florida .. many people got the same kind of illness you where talking about.. only it wasn't killing people ..elderly people got sick .. but recovered .. and i have been hearing a similar story around the country ..

that why antibody testing is so important ..

I have three stories that are pretty much the same. My mother's best friend's husband died suddenly before covid was a word and, then the best friend got crazy sick, and then my mom said she got sick real bad for a week or so. My mother and her friend are pretty convinced they caught covid since they were in a NJ hot spot where thousands died.

I also got sick a few months ago, and I never get sick. I tried getting tested, and then I tried getting an antibody test, I eventually gave up.

I think I have heard of at least 5 or 6 people who think they have had it, and all of them think they had it before it was known about.

[lerxtjr]

Sure was interesting to read the first few posts when this thread was created. Wonder how we'll be reading "2,000 infected" from the early posts a year from now.

[Declan O Flaherty]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

But everyone is so busy tripping over the smoke and mirrors and misinformation about your right not to be told what to do and blah blah blah they are missing the entire point, which is, and has been for months,
ventilation, distancing, masks, and hygiene equal no lockdowns.

And that's just one reason to keep mentioning the masks.

No RCT study with verified outcome shows a benefit for HCW or community members in households to wearing a mask or respirator. There is no such study. There are no exceptions.

Likewise, no study exists that shows a benefit from a broad policy to wear masks in public.

If there were any benefit to wearing a mask, because of the blocking power against droplets and aerosol particles, then there should be more benefit from wearing a respirator (N95) compared to a surgical mask, yet several large meta-analyses, and all the RCT, prove that there is no such relative benefit.

Masks and respirators do not work.

Jacobs, J. L. et al. (2009) “Use of surgical face masks to reduce the incidence of the common cold among health care workers in Japan: A randomized controlled trial,” American Journal of Infection Control, Volume 37, Issue 5, 417 – 419. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19216002
N95-masked health-care workers (HCW) were significantly more likely to experience headaches. Face mask use in HCW was not demonstrated to provide benefit in terms of cold symptoms or getting colds.

Cowling, B. et al. (2010) “Face masks to prevent transmission of influenza virus: A systematic review,” Epidemiology and Infection, 138(4), 449-456. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-infection/article/face-masks-to-prevent-transmission-of-influenza-virus-a-systematic- review/64D368496EBDE0AFCC6639CCC9D8BC05
None of the studies reviewed showed a benefit from wearing a mask, in either HCW or community members in households (H). See summary Tables 1 and 2 therein.

bin-Reza et al. (2012) “The use of masks and respirators to prevent transmission of influenza: a systematic review of the scientific evidence,” Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses 6(4), 257–267. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...9.2011.00307.x
“There were 17 eligible studies. … None of the studies established a conclusive relationship between mask/respirator use and protection against influenza infection.”

Smith, J.D. et al. (2016) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks in protecting health care workers from acute respiratory infection: a systematic review and meta-analysis,” CMAJ Mar 2016 https://www.cmaj.ca/content/188/8/567

Radonovich, L.J. et al. (2019) “N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel: A Randomized Clinical Trial,” JAMA. 2019; 322(9): 824–833. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2749214

“Among 2862 randomized participants, 2371 completed the study and accounted for 5180 HCW-seasons. ... Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”

Long, Y. et al. (2020) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks against influenza: A systematic review and meta-analysis,” J Evid Based Med. 2020; 1- 9. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...111/jebm.12381


“A total of six RCTs involving 9,171 participants were included. There were no statistically significant differences in preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza, laboratory-confirmed respiratory viral infections, laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, and influenza-like illness using N95 respirators and surgical masks.

Meta-analysis indicated a protective effect of N95 respirators against laboratory-confirmed bacterial colonization (RR = 0.58, 95% CI 0.43-0.78).

The use of N95 respirators compared with surgical masks is not associated with a lower risk of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”

I'm sure you will keep denying reality because it's too hard for your brain to accept you have been fooled. It's much easier to call people conspiracy theorists.

Imagine calling hundreds of millions of people, and tens of thousands of Doctors and Scientists conspiracy theorists? Imagine that?

It's embarrassing to watch.

Fauci told you masks didn't work. Then he told you they did. He also told you schools should be closed. Then he told you they should be open. When his story does a complete 180, you just follow along and change yours too.

You have to ask why anyone interested in truth, would give any credence to this guys advice. He's a fraud, just like the Emmy winner Cuomo who handled this virus worse than any single person on the planet. You'll prob'ly see Fauci on the cover of 'Time' magazine.

Unbelievable how silly the average person is.

Can't you see where the lies are coming from? It's always from the same people. You know, the people who brought you riots in the form of peaceful protests; the people who brought you 'defund' the police. And the people who brought you a fake President elect who couldn't fill a cupboard at a rally.

The same people, all the time.

The problem in this thread, is that as soon as it gets political, the conversation gets muted, just like MSM. Which is hilarious considering EVERYTHING about this virus is political. Has been from the start.

These people care not one bit about your health.

I predicted from the start that Sweden will prove the lie. It has been proven.

I'll make another one right here: If Biden gets in, I guarantee you, 100%... the counter of cases and deaths on your fake news media channels, will disappear. As soon as it becomes Bidens responsibility, the fear mongering will stop. Period.

Yes. It's that predictable.

And when that happens, they'll just spin you another little story, and you'll lap it right on up like you always do.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

I have three stories that are pretty much the same. My mother's best friend's husband died suddenly before covid was a word and, then the best friend got crazy sick, and then my mom said she got sick real bad for a week or so. My mother and her friend are pretty convinced they caught covid since they were in a NJ hot spot where thousands died.

I also got sick a few months ago, and I never get sick. I tried getting tested, and then I tried getting an antibody test, I eventually gave up.

I think I have heard of at least 5 or 6 people who think they have had it, and all of them think they had it before it was known about.

even though i believe i was exposed .. i still take precautions out in public.. and for the last month .. i have been taking several supplement to help boost my immune system and stave of depression(ashwaganda,vitamin d3 tumeric and ginger moringa ) .. and over the last few month i have reduced the amount of meat i eat ..

so i have been able to take the 15 pounds off that i put on the first few months of lockdown .. but i have 80 pounds to go and might have to go full vegetarian .. to pull that off ..

i don't live in a world where i depend on outside forces to keep me safe .. the world is dangerous .. and we need to take our own precautions .. or give everything over to government who view us as little stupid children who can not be trusted to make our own choices .

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

We do everything we can and clearly none of it is working very well.

Maybe you do everything you can. But as a society? A country? Even a state? Not even close. Even though we have two signs on our door telling people they need to wear a mask, and the governor is saying that you can be fined if customers don't wear masks....still....about 40% of the people that come through our door don't wear masks. Still.

One thing I thought was interesting.

Last night, the head of the CDC said that they are finding that kids in school are not spreading the virus. So that having kids in school isn't a threat to public health.

For several minutes, I wondered how that is possible.

Kids get the virus just like adults. Kids cough and sneeze just like adults. The virus is largely concentrated in their throat and lungs, just like all other respiratory viruses.

So why aren't the kids getting sick in school, and why aren't they spreading the virus in school.

And then I looked it up.

They all wear masks. Not 40% of them. All of them. The schools that were tested that showed almost no spread of the virus? The masks were worn by all the students and teachers.

There may be other reasons, I don't know. But it struck me as suggestive.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

I'll make another one right here: If Biden gets in, I guarantee you, 100%... the counter of cases and deaths on your fake news media channels, will disappear. As soon as it becomes Bidens responsibility, the fear mongering will stop. Period.

Thank you. To be honest, you usually sound like an intelligent person. But in this thread, you have been saying things that sound....well.....not as I expected. I was dumbfounded by it.

But now I know the reason. And I think you for letting me know

[Kay King]

Research in recent months has shown children do not get the covid virus at the rate adults do - nor do they have the ICU and death rates that adults do.

The CDC has said for some time children are safer in school and should be in school....fauci finally said it last week. It's not new but has been ignored quite a bit. Yes they wear masks but a teacher friend says few of them wear it properly all the time - social distancing of the desks perhaps - but not in the hallways.

Children simply are not affected as much by the pandemic....period. The numbers are clear and consistent on that. The huge problem predicted by teachers' unions if schools were opened - didn't happen.

Declan is not the only person watching to see if there is a 'huge improvement' after the middle of January....and not the only one predicting that.

I don't agree with that view myself - but I do ask why the same local/state/federal politicians, etc who are setting limitations on their constituents and claiming the pandemic 'is worst than it was months ago' or 'is at a critical stage'...are so often violating the very mandates they put in place for us. Why aren't they as afraid as they are telling us to be?

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Declan is not the only person watching to see if there is a 'huge improvement' after the middle of January....and not the only one predicting that.

The story was that on November 4th, the virus would magically go away.

When this kind of conspiracy comes up, my first thought is usually...when the prediction doesn't come true, will anyone say they were just wrong?

The answer is no. They change the prediction. Or the redefine what words mean.

So, now it's changed to the middle of January. After the middle of January, and the pandemic is still getting worse, will anyone here admit they were wrong?

The answer is No. What might very well happen though, is that after we start getting the vaccine, and it starts showing up as lower numbers, the prediction will change to whatever date that is.

Originally Posted by Kay King

I don't agree with that view myself - but I do ask why the same local/state/federal politicians, etc who are setting limitations on their constituents and claiming the pandemic 'is worst than it was months ago' or 'is at a critical stage'...are so often violating the very mandates they put in place for us. Why aren't they as afraid as they are telling us to be?

They are saying it's worse than it was months ago...because it's far worse than it was months ago.
You can see all the daily figures for the last year here.
https://covidtracking.com/data/charts/us-daily-deaths/

Why do they say it's at a critical stage? That I don't have an answer for. I suspect it's hyperbole.

Why aren't they doing what they tell us to do? You mean hobnobbing around town without a mask? Going to events, when they tell us to stay home?

Do you really expect politicians to be different from the rest of us? They don't practice what they preach., just like most of us, much of the time.

How many doctors still smoke? As many as want to smoke.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

The story was that on November 4th, the virus would magically go away.

When this kind of conspiracy comes up, my first thought is usually...when the prediction doesn't come true, will anyone say they were just wrong?

The answer is no. They change the prediction. Or the redefine what words mean.

So, now it's changed to the middle of January. After the middle of January, and the pandemic is still getting worse, will anyone here admit they were wrong?

The answer is No. What might very well happen though, is that after we start getting the vaccine, and it starts showing up as lower numbers, the prediction will change to whatever date that is.

the pandemic will be solved only after the entire world solves it.. that is after vaccines are deployed around the world and there are no covid travel restrictions

and earlies is the second half on 2021 ..

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Odahh

the pandemic will be solved only after the entire world solves it.. that is after vaccines are deployed around the world and there are no covid travel restrictions

and earlies is the second half on 2021 ..

It may be a slow process.

First you have to convince people that the pandemic is real.
Then you have to convince them that the vaccine won't kill them.
Then you have to get enough people to take the vaccine to make the infection rate actually decline.

And then, slowly, more people will take the vaccine, and slowly, the infection rate will go down.

So it may be a matter of degree.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

No RCT study with verified outcome shows a benefit for HCW or community members in households to wearing a mask or respirator. There is no such study. There are no exceptions.

Likewise, no study exists that shows a benefit from a broad policy to wear masks in public.

If there were any benefit to wearing a mask, because of the blocking power against droplets and aerosol particles, then there should be more benefit from wearing a respirator (N95) compared to a surgical mask, yet several large meta-analyses, and all the RCT, prove that there is no such relative benefit.

Masks and respirators do not work.

Jacobs, J. L. et al. (2009) “Use of surgical face masks to reduce the incidence of the common cold among health care workers in Japan: A randomized controlled trial,” American Journal of Infection Control, Volume 37, Issue 5, 417 – 419. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19216002
N95-masked health-care workers (HCW) were significantly more likely to experience headaches. Face mask use in HCW was not demonstrated to provide benefit in terms of cold symptoms or getting colds.

Cowling, B. et al. (2010) “Face masks to prevent transmission of influenza virus: A systematic review,” Epidemiology and Infection, 138(4), 449-456. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-infection/article/face-masks-to-prevent-transmission-of-influenza-virus-a-systematic- review/64D368496EBDE0AFCC6639CCC9D8BC05
None of the studies reviewed showed a benefit from wearing a mask, in either HCW or community members in households (H). See summary Tables 1 and 2 therein.

bin-Reza et al. (2012) “The use of masks and respirators to prevent transmission of influenza: a systematic review of the scientific evidence,” Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses 6(4), 257–267. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...9.2011.00307.x
“There were 17 eligible studies. … None of the studies established a conclusive relationship between mask/respirator use and protection against influenza infection.”

Smith, J.D. et al. (2016) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks in protecting health care workers from acute respiratory infection: a systematic review and meta-analysis,” CMAJ Mar 2016 https://www.cmaj.ca/content/188/8/567

Radonovich, L.J. et al. (2019) “N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel: A Randomized Clinical Trial,” JAMA. 2019; 322(9): 824–833. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2749214

“Among 2862 randomized participants, 2371 completed the study and accounted for 5180 HCW-seasons. ... Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”

Long, Y. et al. (2020) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks against influenza: A systematic review and meta-analysis,” J Evid Based Med. 2020; 1- 9. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...111/jebm.12381


“A total of six RCTs involving 9,171 participants were included. There were no statistically significant differences in preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza, laboratory-confirmed respiratory viral infections, laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, and influenza-like illness using N95 respirators and surgical masks.

Meta-analysis indicated a protective effect of N95 respirators against laboratory-confirmed bacterial colonization (RR = 0.58, 95% CI 0.43-0.78).

The use of N95 respirators compared with surgical masks is not associated with a lower risk of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”

I'm sure you will keep denying reality because it's too hard for your brain to accept you have been fooled. It's much easier to call people conspiracy theorists.

Imagine calling hundreds of millions of people, and tens of thousands of Doctors and Scientists conspiracy theorists? Imagine that?

It's embarrassing to watch.

Fauci told you masks didn't work. Then he told you they did. He also told you schools should be closed. Then he told you they should be open. When his story does a complete 180, you just follow along and change yours too.

You have to ask why anyone interested in truth, would give any credence to this guys advice. He's a fraud, just like the Emmy winner Cuomo who handled this virus worse than any single person on the planet. You'll prob'ly see Fauci on the cover of 'Time' magazine.

Unbelievable how silly the average person is.

Can't you see where the lies are coming from? It's always from the same people. You know, the people who brought you riots in the form of peaceful protests; the people who brought you 'defund' the police. And the people who brought you a fake President elect who couldn't fill a cupboard at a rally.

The same people, all the time.

The problem in this thread, is that as soon as it gets political, the conversation gets muted, just like MSM. Which is hilarious considering EVERYTHING about this virus is political. Has been from the start.

These people care not one bit about your health.

I predicted from the start that Sweden will prove the lie. It has been proven.

I'll make another one right here: If Biden gets in, I guarantee you, 100%... the counter of cases and deaths on your fake news media channels, will disappear. As soon as it becomes Bidens responsibility, the fear mongering will stop. Period.

Yes. It's that predictable.

And when that happens, they'll just spin you another little story, and you'll lap it right on up like you always do.

You clearly don't understand how the scientific process works and, if you don't understand the basics tenants of how science comes to conclusions, or follow up, or understanding mistakes and pivoting then, you will continue thinking your opinion is infallible. I have followed some of your suggestions and many others in this thread because I know that I'm not the smartest bulb in the pack and, I am open to just about any possibility. But the way I see you guys interpret what you read and watch suggests to me that you cherry-pick any slice of info and mish-mash it together with any other slice of info to meet your needs. That's not science and, it's dangerous.

I appreciate the fact that you are so open about your disbelief.

One last thing, in one of these posts, I said (I'm paraphrasing) that I hope I'm wrong and that I would eventually feel foolish and wind up apologizing to my friends and family for being so anal about things.

My way of knowing If I am wrong is based solely on the number of deaths when the all-clear is given. Let's face it we, have a few pre-existing metrics to go by, such as the 1918 pandemic and of course, others.

What is your way of check and balancing your views on the situation?
How will you know if you're wrong? Last question, why do you feel the need to put people down when you, don't agree with them? Nobody in this thread has talked down or rude to you, but you have told me I should be embarrassed for the way I think.

Well, I think you should be embarrassed by your actions and vitriol. I'm literally embarrassed for you and I find it entertaining that you keep declaring that I'm the one who needs to wake up.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Research in recent months has shown children do not get the covid virus at the rate adults do - nor do they have the ICU and death rates that adults do.

The CDC has said for some time children are safer in school and should be in school....fauci finally said it last week. It's not new but has been ignored quite a bit. Yes they wear masks but a teacher friend says few of them wear it properly all the time - social distancing of the desks perhaps - but not in the hallways.

Children simply are not affected as much by the pandemic....period. The numbers are clear and consistent on that. The huge problem predicted by teachers' unions if schools were opened - didn't happen.

Declan is not the only person watching to see if there is a 'huge improvement' after the middle of January....and not the only one predicting that.

I don't agree with that view myself - but I do ask why the same local/state/federal politicians, etc who are setting limitations on their constituents and claiming the pandemic 'is worst than it was months ago' or 'is at a critical stage'...are so often violating the very mandates they put in place for us. Why aren't they as afraid as they are telling us to be?

Unless the school my kid should be going to is lying, no kid or staff has caught covid since they re-opened.

A few other schools in the area have had a very limited number of school infections.

Originally Posted by Odahh

even though i believe i was exposed .. i still take precautions out in public

Yeah man, me too. Smart. So is the diet and exercise.

Stay vigilante, it's going to be the dumb asses that take someone like you or me out.

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

It is a tsunami of infections now.

"Someone" mentioned that was coming about 25 pages of thread ago...

We do not discuss COVID strategies here because there has never been any.

I don't think it's quite exponential growth yet, but damn it's got to be getting close.

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

We do not discuss COVID strategies here because there has never been any.

There was a plan. We just didn't get the courtesy reach- around.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

It may be a slow process.

First you have to convince people that the pandemic is real.
Then you have to convince them that the vaccine won't kill them.
Then you have to get enough people to take the vaccine to make the infection rate actually decline.

And then, slowly, more people will take the vaccine, and slowly, the infection rate will go down.

So it may be a matter of degree.

I don't care about the USA alone ..once a vaccine is widely available ..airline will be able to require proof of vaccination to fly .. even on domestic flight.. busses and trains may be able to do the same ..

then whatever hotels and motels that are not out of business .. can require the same to book a room .

require the people moving around and traveling to be vaccinated .. i think amazon is already planning to vaccinate its entire workforce once the vaccine is available to them ..

by getting all those who can spread it outside an area.. then each state can chose how to deal with the people in their state ..

ken.. i am not worried about dumb people taking me out ..it would have happened by now .. what bother me is when we have to treat everyone like they are dumb people ..instead of identifying the dumb people and not letting dumb people sue when they hurt themselves ..

i have yet to get an excersize plan together .. when i was in warmer hot environment i would easly walk several miles a day either daily or on a regular basis .. but it's to cold to do that and southeastern massachusetts is is set up so you can be 1 mile away from something but still walk like three to four miles to get to it .. on roads with no sidewalks ..and with barely enough room for 2 cars ..

where las vegas, tucson and even fort myers at least has sidewalks and gridded streets not the cul de sac BS

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Kay King

We do everything we can and clearly none of it is working very well.

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Maybe you do everything you can. But as a society? A country? Even a state? Not even close.<snip>

To me, solving a global pandemic requires a global response.

Originally Posted by Odahh

the pandemic will be solved only after the entire world solves it.. that is after vaccines are deployed around the world and there are no covid travel restrictions

and earlies is the second half on 2021 ..

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

It may be a slow process.

First you have to convince people that the pandemic is real.
Then you have to convince them that the vaccine won't kill them.
Then you have to get enough people to take the vaccine to make the infection rate actually decline.

And then, slowly, more people will take the vaccine, and slowly, the infection rate will go down.

So it may be a matter of degree.

Covid mutates in that a vaccine may work today and will not work tomorrow. For that reason I do not think the pandemic will stop. It will decline until it mutates and a new vaccine is made available and that is better than nothing. Be prepared for the long haul.

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

<snip>Last question, why do you feel the need to put people down when you, don't agree with them? Nobody in this thread has talked down or rude to you, but you have told me I should be embarrassed for the way I think.

Well, I think you should be embarrassed by your actions and vitriol. I'm literally embarrassed for you and I find it entertaining that you keep declaring that I'm the one who needs to wake up.

^ This ^
Blatantly belittling members to include posting nonsense that links to phony authoritative organizations that consist of Doctors that claim Covid was created by devils and aliens.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

To me
Covid mutates in that a vaccine may work today and will not work tomorrow. For that reason I do not think the pandemic will stop. It will decline until it mutates and a new vaccine is made available and that is better than nothing. Be prepared for the long haul.

.

if mass vaccinations don't lead to things opening up ..long haul is collapse of society .. and french revolution like outbreaks of violence ..either the vaccines work.. or people start putting the 400 million plus personal firearms in the USA to use ..and the United state ceases to exist .. after all we have thrown out the constitution .. and are violating people right through these lockdowns .. if their is no end .. and there is constantly some reason .. not to end it ..

the people will end it .. and it will be a leaderless event

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Odahh

if mass vaccinations don't lead to things opening up ..long haul is collapse of society .. and french revolution like outbreaks of violence ..either the vaccines work.. or people start putting the 400 million plus personal firearms in the USA to use ..and the United state ceases to exist .. after all we have thrown out the constitution .. and are violating people right through these lockdowns .. if their is no end .. and there is constantly some reason .. not to end it ..

the people will end it .. and it will be a leaderless event

^ Damn ^
It is a definite possibility.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

^ Damn ^
It is a definite possibility.

that is why i am a hard believer that we will see a UBI .. and will Janet yellen slated to lead the treasury .. we are likely to see ..stimulus checks early next year ..for several months .. and a fast tracked UBI ..

so by the end of summer we have a large enough number of people vaccinated and money going into everyone's pockets . to then start building a new economy ..

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Odahh

if mass vaccinations don't lead to things opening up ..long haul is collapse of society ..

We've had this sort of thing before, and it didn't destroy society.

At worst, 1-2% of the population will die, and the rest of us will be immune. Tragic, but survivable.

And that's the worst case scenario, I think. And that's if there are no vaccines that work at all.

It's not like the Black Plague that killed everyone that got it. There would be no reason for civil unrest.

Of course, not having a reason never stopped anyone before.

[1Bryan]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

Blatantly belittling members to include posting nonsense that links to phony authoritative organizations that consist of Doctors that claim Covid was created by devils and aliens.

None of the links in Declan's last post are phony. Those are all very legit.

You kinda just compared some of the more prestigious medical journals to grocery store tabloid fodder.

PubMed and JAMA ... Devils and aliens??? Really???

This is the problem.

Too many people don't know what they don't know. But have assumed they do. And assume their feelings are right. And think "news" from corporations ...

That align with their fear feelings ...

Is somehow more legit than medical journals haha.

Crazy world, right?

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

We've had this sort of thing before, and it didn't destroy society.

At worst, 1-2% of the population will die, and the rest of us will be immune. Tragic, but survivable.

And that's the worst case scenario, I think. And that's if there are no vaccines that work at all.

It's not like the Black Plague that killed everyone that got it. There would be no reason for civil unrest.

Of course, not having a reason never stopped anyone before.

The Black Plague did not kill everyone, not even close, but it did destroy society, and in part that's why it's called the dark ages. No real science, just religion and the mystics like voodoo and magic.

Remember before the black plague killed half the planet, there was this little scientific community called Rome.

Edit: half the planet is an exaggeration - I have to run and dont have time to find the real numbers.

[JosephC]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

The Black Plague did not kill everyone, not even close, but it did destroy society, and in part that's why it's called the dark ages. No real science, just religion and the mystics like voodoo and magic.

Remember before the black plague killed half the planet, there was this little scientific community called Rome.

Edit: half the planet is an exaggeration - I have to run and dont have time to find the real numbers.

On your point about the black death, the renaissance followed. I'm expecting some sort of period like that after the pandemic.

[JosephC]

Originally Posted by Odahh

that is why i am a hard believer that we will see a UBI .. and will Janet yellen slated to lead the treasury .. we are likely to see ..stimulus checks early next year ..for several months .. and a fast tracked UBI ..

so by the end of summer we have a large enough number of people vaccinated and money going into everyone's pockets . to then start building a new economy ..

I think the new economy we build won't be the same, as one poll mentioned on NPR last week showed that far more Americans are dissatisfied with their work, I expect we may see an exodus of people from boring 9-5 jobs into something more fulfilling.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

The Black Plague did not kill everyone, not even close,

Sorry, I got my plagues mixed up. From Wikipedia;
Bubonic plague is fatal in about 50-70% of untreated cases. Septicaemic plague is almost 100% fatal. Pneumonic plague is 100% fatal,

And the Coronavirus is about 1% fatal, taking all ages into account, without treatment.

My point was that even with the worst case in this pandemic, society won't crumble.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Sorry, I got my plagues mixed up. From Wikipedia;
Bubonic plague is fatal in about 50-70% of untreated cases. Septicaemic plague is almost 100% fatal. Pneumonic plague is 100% fatal,

And the Coronavirus is about 1% fatal, taking all ages into account, without treatment.

My point was that even with the worst case in this pandemic, society won't crumble.

I expect perfection from you, anything less and I feel cheated

On a real note, as I was driving, I kept reflecting on the post I made and was wondering if I was remembered the timeline correctly and if not, how bad you were gonna rip me

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by 1Bryan

None of the links in Declan's last post are phony. Those are all very legit.

I am referring to this post.

3. Dr. Stella Immanuel identified herself as a primary care physician in Houston and claims to have successfully treated about 350 COVID-19 patients. She has a full medical license in Texas, according to Texas Medical Board online records. She told the board she has a primary specialty of pediatrics and a secondary specialty of emergency medicine.

Side note: See Below

A doctor who believes in demon sperm sued for medical malpractice

Immanuel (# 3) has received heightened attention among the doctors in the group after a report from the Daily Beast highlighted some of her bizarre religious and medical beliefs.

The Daily Beast reported that Immanuel has stated "that gynecological problems like cysts and endometriosis are in fact caused by people having sex in their dreams with demons and witches" and that "alien DNA is currently used in medical treatments."

On Twitter, Immanuel embraced these claims, tweeting, "Yes America! some need deliverance from demon sperm" and said the news outlet "did a great job summarizing our deliverance ministry."

Additional Source:
Who Are ‘America’s Frontline Doctors’ and Dr. Stella Immanuel?
Snopes Published 30 July 2020 Updated 27 August 2020

Excerpt:

A group that called itself “America’s Frontline Doctors” (AFD) took to the steps of the U.S. Supreme Court on July 27, 2020, in a self-described “White Coat Summit” to address a “massive disinformation campaign” regarding COVID-19, the respiratory disease caused by SARS-CoV-2.

A video recording of the 45-minute long event was promoted online as a “SCOTUS press conference” but had no clear affiliation with the high court other than being held on the footsteps of the Washington, D.C., courthouse. Less than 24 hours after being posted, the video was pulled from social media platforms for presenting misinformation lauding unproven treatments for COVID-19, and thousands of reader queries poured in at Snopes, asking about the legitimacy of the video and the personalities featured in it.

Originally Posted by 1Bryan

You kinda just compared some of the more prestigious medical journals to grocery store tabloid fodder.

PubMed and JAMA ... Devils and aliens??? Really???

No, not me, he made the post supported by what he considers some of the more prestigious medical journals. In all fairness to him, I and others in this thread simply followed his link and ultimately discovered... wackos.

Originally Posted by 1Bryan

This is the problem.

Too many people don't know what they don't know. But have assumed they do. And assume their feelings are right. And think "news" from corporations ...

That align with their fear feelings ...

Is somehow more legit than medical journals haha.

Crazy world, right?

Agreed. And when those same people are confronted about the legitimacy of their claim they become defensive and resort to..

..blatantly belittling members to include posting nonsense that links to phony authoritative organizations that consist of Doctors that claim Covid was created by devils and aliens.

[Mark Singletary]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

I and others in this thread simply followed his link and ultimately discovered... wackos.

I only saw one in that group that may be considered wacko.

I think it's wrong, but just my opinion, to group people together as bad as a whole because of the actions of one.

If that were the case, every WF member should be banned for life just by being here. They/we are all likely spammers who would lie, cheat, or steal for a buck. Because some Warriors have done and do that.

There are a lot of people who believe in things like an afterlife, good vs. bad, good nature vs. bad nature or whatever (not necessarily religious). That doesn't mean they can't be good parents, teachers, doctors, etc. does it?

I think most of us have biased opinions of some sort. People that live in the deep South are backwards. New Yorkers are snobs. Party X hates immigrants. Party Y is corrupt.

There are some "backwards" people in the South, snobs in NY, immigrant haters in Party X and corrupt individuals in Party Y. But most people in those groups aren't those things.

For example, the party I belong to generally has very different views on mask wearing than I do. But that doesn't mean they are right and I'm wrong or vice versa. It just means we have different opinions.

To look at the situation without bias (if possible), without emotion (if possible), without blind allegiance to the party line, questioning even "trusted" names in government and news organizations to try and get the real picture, you can see that there are pros and cons to wearing masks (or vaccines or social distancing or lockdowns or opening schools or whatever).

Give credit where it's due no matter if they are in a different group. Give the benefit of the doubt. Don't accuse someone of doing nothing and not having a plan but then refuse the things that are done or said that are good or right. Quit placing blame because no one knows for sure where this thing came from, no one knows for sure the long term effect (it's been less than a year, how could they know what happens in year 2 and beyond), accept that the other side is right on some things sometimes, etc.

The problem is that most can't. Or won't. But I wish they would.

Mark

(I deleted the rest of my post so as to avoid the wrath of the mods.)

[socialentry]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

There are a lot of people who believe in things like an afterlife, good vs. bad, good nature vs. bad nature or whatever (not necessarily religious). That doesn't mean they can't be good parents, teachers, doctors, etc. does it?

but wat if you're a flat earther and you're asked to teach 3rd grade geography.


and wat if u believe in perpetual motion and you're asked to teach a class on nuclear reactor design.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

I .

you can see that there are pros and cons to wearing masks (or vaccines or social distancing or lockdowns or opening schools or whatever).

First, I appreciate the tone of your post.

Some issues are matters of opinion. Should schools stay open? Should businesses stay open? these are questions that recruit a complex net of information to arrive at an informed decision...and they are matters of opinion.

But do masks work? That isn't a matter of opinion. They are very effective. Possibly the most effective solution we have, with the exception of just never leaving our home.

We now have at least 8 months of experience with the virus, and whether areas that require masks have less Covid or not. They do.

But that's not why I'm harping about masks.

Covid has again, for the second time, become the number one cause of death in the US.

More than cancer, accidents, or heart attacks.

And masks are almost free, they are so cheap. And they are readily available. And they work. Is there a down side? Yes. If you wear a mask, you are letting everyone know that you are buying into this "Covid is a serious thing" mindset.

Wearing a mask is a statement (whether you want it to be or not) and not wearing a mask (in public, indoors) is also a statement, whether you want it to be or not.

I understand that business owners may fight to stay open. It's their livelihood. And I understand wanting to keep all schools open. In fact, information from the CDC says that schools aren't where infections are coming from.

But not wearing a mask? It's effortless, Everyone on the planet can afford masks. And they work well. And....they save lives. How many? Who knows. I suppose you can take the numbers from areas that mandate masks an areas where they don.t and get a good idea of the numbers.

Anyway, I agree that most people are decent. But these "debates" are always at the fringes. And the posts on forums like this attract the fringes.

And of course, everyone thinks that they are the one being objective. But we can be nicer about it. I agree.

[Kay King]

When I said 'we do everything we can', I was using the royal 'we'.

I do everything I can - I don't control what others do and there is nothing for me to gain by worrying about what others do.

I jut canceled a party for this Sunday. I had planned to attend because it was a small group of people - was to be held out of doors - as safe as you can get and still have some social interaction.

Due to colder weather - it's been moved to an indoor restaurant...so not going. I hate to miss it as it's a crazy group of friends of all ages and I won't see some of them again till spring (horse people).

But I'm not stupid - I see what the numbers are doing - see vaccines on the horizon - don't want to screw it up now. My goal is that next summer I won't have these limitations - and will still be here to enjoy it.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Jeffery
I and others in this thread simply followed his link and ultimately discovered... wackos.

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

I only saw one in that group that may be considered wacko.

I think it's wrong, but just my opinion, to group people together as bad as a whole because of the actions of one.

At the very least, when people form an official alliance in the form of an official group those people are responsible to check the standing of all involved. Otherwise, one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch if you know what I mean.

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

If that were the case, every WF member should be banned for life just by being here. They/we are all likely spammers who would lie, cheat, or steal for a buck. Because some Warriors have done and do that.

Are you directing that at me? Sounds like you are directing that at me Mark. Are you threatening to ban me? Where did I accuse anyone of being a spammer, a liar, cheater or thief?

Well, so be it then and I'll just stay out of your and his opinions.

[1Bryan]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

But do masks work? That isn't a matter of opinion. They are very effective. Possibly the most effective solution we have, with the exception of just never leaving our home.

Declan backed up his claim about masks with legit science from legit links.

Can you provide peer-reviewed research links that back up your claim?

So far the weight of peer-reviewed research falls on the side that masks probably do very little to stop the transmission of Covid.

The talking points are different. But talking points aren't science. Fauci isn't Moses. Science isn't religion. Masks are not a Cross.

But even if you believe with all your heart masks work ...

Most people don't wear them correctly. They don't handle them correctly. And they wear single-use masks ... over and over again.

Lol, you can even buy Nike and Gucci masks.

Yup. That sure is science haha.

[Jeffery]

No one has said that masks are a cure - did I miss something? If I did then I'll be the first to say "I stand corrected".

From what I have read is "masks help prevent the spread". It doesn't take a medical authority or scientist to acknowledge that masks "help prevent the spread".

[beasty513]

Biden wants mask use for 100 days.

It will be interesting to see how it would be implemented, I was
just out in town last night and restaurants/bars had patrons with no masks.

There is still a sizable chunk of populace that won't wear masks regardless.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by 1Bryan

Declan backed up his claim about masks with legit science from legit links.

Are you serious? All of those links are to articles published before Covid! 2009, 2010, 2012, 2016, 2019.

Only one was posted in 2020 and it is "not" about Covid and masks! It is about the effects of N95 respirators versus surgical masks for prevention of influenza by collecting randomized controlled trials (RCTs).

Similarities and Differences between Flu and COVID-19​ (CDC)
FYI, Influenza (Flu) and COVID-19 are both contagious respiratory illnesses, but they are caused by different viruses. COVID-19 is caused by infection with a new coronavirus (called SARS-CoV-2) and flu is caused by infection with influenza viruses.Oct 6, 2020

The takeaway is the links are limited to Influenza (Flu).

Matter of fact, the link:
Radonovich, L.J. et al. (2019) “N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel: A Randomized Clinical Trial,” JAMA. 2019; 322(9): 824–833. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2749214

refers us to an article that addresses Covid that repeatedly recommends masks as PPE:

Perspectives on personal protective equipment in acute care facilities during the COVID-19 pandemic

and the article is from the same source! Why were the articles about Covid and masks being effective omitted? BTW, there are more articles from the same source that recommend masks.

The takeaway? Consider the source.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by beasty513

Biden wants mask use for 100 days.

It will be interesting to see how it would be implemented, I was
just out in town last night and restaurants/bars had patrons with no masks.

There is still a sizable chunk of populace that won't wear masks regardless.

That's why it probably won't be made a mandate, with fines for non-compliance.

Why are there patrons in bars and restaurants without masks? You have to already be in the "Masks are useless. Let's all get it" mindset to even go to a bar now. My guess is that 35-40% of adults in the US won't wear a mask, no matter what.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by 1Bryan

Declan backed up his claim about masks with legit science from legit links.

Can you provide peer-reviewed research links that back up your claim?

Fauci isn't Moses.

Jeffrey already did all the work for me. Thanks Jeffrey.

You have just let me know that anything said by the premier epidemiologist and immunologist in the country isn't good enough.

You mean this guy..
https://www.niaid.nih.gov/about/anthony-s-fauci-md-bio

Dr. Fauci was appointed director of NIAID in 1984. He oversees an extensive portfolio of basic and applied research to prevent, diagnose, and treat established infectious diseases such as HIV/AIDS, respiratory infections, diarrheal diseases, tuberculosis and malaria as well as emerging diseases such as Ebola and Zika. NIAID also supports research on transplantation and immune-related illnesses, including autoimmune disorders, asthma and allergies. The NIAID budget for fiscal year 2020 is an estimated $5.9 billion.

Dr. Fauci has advised six presidents on HIV/AIDS and many other domestic and global health issues. He was one of the principal architects of the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR), a program that has saved millions of lives throughout the developing world.

Dr. Fauci also is the longtime chief of the Laboratory of Immunoregulation. He has made many contributions to basic and clinical research on the pathogenesis and treatment of immune-mediated and infectious diseases. He helped pioneer the field of human immunoregulation by making important basic scientific observations that underpin the current understanding of the regulation of the human immune response. In addition, Dr. Fauci is widely recognized for delineating the precise ways that immunosuppressive agents modulate the human immune response. He developed effective therapies for formerly fatal inflammatory and immune-mediated diseases such as polyarteritis nodosa, granulomatosis with polyangiitis (formerly Wegener's granulomatosis), and lymphomatoid granulomatosis. A 1985 Stanford University Arthritis Center Survey of the American Rheumatism Association membership ranked Dr. Fauci’s work on the treatment of polyarteritis nodosa and granulomatosis with polyangiitis among the most important advances in patient management in rheumatology over the previous 20 years.

Dr. Fauci has made seminal contributions to the understanding of how HIV destroys the body's defenses leading to its susceptibility to deadly infections. Further, he has been instrumental in developing treatments that enable people with HIV to live long and active lives. He continues to devote much of his research to the immunopathogenic mechanisms of HIV infection and the scope of the body's immune responses to HIV.

In a 2020 analysis of Google Scholar citations, Dr. Fauci ranked as the 32nd most-cited living researcher. According to the Web of Science, Dr. Fauci ranked 7th out of more than 1.8 million authors in the field of immunology by total citation count between 1980 and January 2020.

Dr. Fauci has delivered major lectures all over the world and is the recipient of numerous prestigious awards, including the Presidential Medal of Freedom (the highest honor given to a civilian by the President of the United States), the National Medal of Science, the George M. Kober Medal of the Association of American Physicians, the Mary Woodard Lasker Award for Public Service, the Albany Medical Center Prize in Medicine and Biomedical Research, the Robert Koch Gold Medal, the Prince Mahidol Award, and the Canada Gairdner Global Health Award. He also has received 45 honorary doctoral degrees from universities in the United States and abroad.

Dr. Fauci is a member of the National Academy of Sciences, the National Academy of Medicine, the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and the American Philosophical Society, as well as other professional societies including the American College of Physicians, the American Society for Clinical Investigation, the Association of American Physicians, the Infectious Diseases Society of America, the American Association of Immunologists, and the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma & Immunology. He serves on the editorial boards of many scientific journals; as an editor of Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine; and as author, coauthor, or editor of more than 1,300 scientific publications, including several textbooks.

That's from the National Institute Of Allergy And Infectious Diseases.

Not legit enough for you? I understand We all have our standards.

And, I have to admit, Alex Jones hasn't endorsed Dr. Fauci. Maybe eventually.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

That's why it probably won't be made a mandate, with fines for non-compliance.

Why are there patrons in bars and restaurants without masks? You have to already be in the "Masks are useless. Let's all get it" mindset to even go to a bar now. My guess is that 35-40% of adults in the US won't wear a mask, no matter what.

or even 9 month in many people can't cook the food they can get in restaurants ..there are a lot of people who can't cook all that good .. there is a reason resreraunts and fast food where everywhere

[Mark Singletary]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

Otherwise, one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch if you know what I mean.


Are you directing that at me? Sounds like you are directing that at me Mark. Are you threatening to ban me? Where did I accuse anyone of being a spammer, a liar, cheater or thief?

Well, so be it then and I'll just stay out of your and his opinions.

Of course not. What in the world have you done to deserve that? Nothing that I've seen over the years.

My point is, like you say, one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch so sometimes we throw out an entire group of doctors because of one weirdo. Or we base our opinions about party X because of some fringe folks.

If all those doctors are wackos whose opinions are to be thrown out because one believes in demons, then why are we as a group (WF) not judged by the fringe group here who lies, cheats, spams, etc.

Why are all those doctors "bad" in a sense because of one but we don't apply the same principle to the groups we are members of?

You and the great majority WF members didn't do anything wrong so shouldn't be punished or judged because of those that do.

Likewise, even if we throw out the one doctor's opinions, why be so quick to throw out the others just because of her? That's the point I was trying to make and used the WF as an analogy.

Mark

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Odahh

or even 9 month in many people can't cook the food they can get in restaurants ..there are a lot of people who can't cook all that good .. there is a reason resreraunts and fast food where everywhere

Take-Out. Drive Through. Safe.

(apparently, I went to the Frankenstein's Monster's School Of Public Speaking)

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

My guess is that 35-40% of adults in the US won't wear a mask, no matter what.

Or get the vaccinations.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Take-Out. Drive Through. Safe.

(apparently, I went to the Frankenstein's Monster's School Of Public Speaking)

I have been too a couple of restaurants recently, not bar's. You wear your mask going in and take them off when seated, spaced out in booths. A glass or perspex partition separates each one. The person who serves you is masked. Safe as they can be I suppose.

In the Houston area, bars and restaurants are generally the only sort of entertainment you get, it is a very deeply entrenched culture to visit them. I suspect a lot of the better off people simply don't cook much at home. There are so many of them and normally, always busy.

[Mark Singletary]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

My guess is that 35-40% of adults in the US won't wear a mask, no matter what.

I saw a story just now about an Oregon doctor who lost his medical license for refusal to wear a mask in his office and for anti-mask preaching. No link because the article has some unrelated political stuff.

It will be interesting how people respond to enforcement action as the spread gets worse and enforcement increases. I am as freedom loving as anyone else, but I don't see wearing a mask as an affront to my liberty. I do it because I want to not because the government recommends it or has a mask mandate.

Mark

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

Of course not. What in the world have you done to deserve that? Nothing that I've seen over the years.

My point is, like you say, one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch so sometimes we throw out an entire group of doctors because of one weirdo. Or we base our opinions about party X because of some fringe folks.

If all those doctors are wackos whose opinions are to be thrown out because one believes in demons, then why are we as a group (WF) not judged by the fringe group here who lies, cheats, spams, etc.

Why are all those doctors "bad" in a sense because of one but we don't apply the same principle to the groups we are members of?

You and the great majority WF members didn't do anything wrong so shouldn't be punished or judged because of those that do.

Likewise, even if we throw out the one doctor's opinions, why be so quick to throw out the others just because of her? That's the point I was trying to make and used the WF as an analogy.

Mark

Mark, it was not just Immanuel , there are other doctors:

Dr. Simone Gold, while standing in front of Los Angeles’ Cedars-Sinai hospital as if appearing to have an affiliation with the institution. Cedars-Sinai publicly addressed the videos saying that “there is no one by that name on the staff of Cedars-Sinai or affiliated with Cedars-Sinai.”

Other doctors introduced in the video included:
Dr. Bob Hamilton, a private-practice pediatrician from Santa Monica, California, known for his ability to soothe a crying baby via the “Hamilton Hold,”

Dr. James Todaro, who includes a “not medical advice” caveat on his Twitter profile, and who has no known experience treating COVID-19.

Those are just a few reasons for me to to discount any credibility to the group and I am not nor ever have compared the group to another in terms of an analogy.