[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by agmccall

Oh, sorry, I forgot. you can loot, riot, burn and steal. it does not spread to that group of people.

what group of people is that?

[Kay King]

Claude - This is page 41 some forum cleanup may have changed the page numbers a bit?

I promise to more or less behave myself.

Would prefer 'more' if you don't mind.

Mods have removed several posts that were repetitive, argumentative, rude or news that couldn't pass a fact check. I've been informed I am a 'bully' who is 'limiting free speech' - etc.

not sorry

[Declan O Flaherty]

Originally Posted by savidge4

Covid: In the USA there has been 15 million cases and 284,000 deaths at this point. The 15 million we know to be the number of people that have been tested aka "people going to a health care provider for their illness". As of today alone there are 100,000+ hospitalizations. This is NOT a rolling count, this is who is in the hospital TODAY.

100,000- are in the hospital TODAY? Did they care to mention that it's normal for this time of year. dec and jan are peak flu and pneumonia season.

Here's a good break down of why it's normal...
https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/it...are-misleading

284,000 deaths? Considerng the only apparant fact we do know, is that 6% died of Covid. You can't believe that number. You simply can't.

Originally Posted by savidge4

So what we know and dont know... I have yet to see a number that estimates the number of Americans that were sick with Covid ( like they do with the flu) we are at this point even with or on par with the 15 million known cases to equal a flu season. The number of Hospitalized ( cant find a running total number on this ) there is simply no comparison, and the overall deaths... and honestly we could assume the number is HALF ( 142,000 ) again there is no comparison NONE. Covid is flat out no questions asked dont let the door hit you on the way out 5x more deadly - and that is halfing the official death by covid number.

Why would the people doing all the fear mongering tell you numbers are less than what they really are?

To not scare you?

Originally Posted by savidge4

You can say studies this and scientist that all day long... like I said mathematical arguments at this point are MUTE. There is NO QUESTION that the numbers with this are incorrect. BUT you really have to think for a moment about how they would be adjusted... the answer is the OPPOSITE of what you are suggesting... They are NOT expanded, they are SHRUNK. Case and point look at the Florida thing going on where the whistle blower saying she got fired for not reducing numbers. I know for FACT my States numbers are incorrect to the low side.

We know how the numbers are adjusted. It's actually quite simple. Maybe just as simple as stealing an election.

The numbers are vastly exaggerated. It's not as if this is a secret. You do know they openly admit they class all types of deaths as died from Covid, if they had Covid? This is not news. It's widely agreed upon. There are many instances where they have told you this.

They have to coerce you into taking a vaccine, and fear people into it, but at the same time they are lying about the numbers by telling you they are actually lower than what they really are.

If it quacks. It's a duck.

Originally Posted by savidge4

But none of this matters... There is one number and one number only to look at, and that is the death rate. I agree the number is fudged... I get the whole but the person had cancer argument. So reduce the number in half... and its still not pretty. Again.. just the numbers and the numbers alone - and there is cause for concern.

Any number can be a cause for concern if that's the case. Look at the numbers in 'cases' now? Step back and just think about it. They have you all in fear of 'cases' for goodness sake. They could literally do this to you with heart attacks if they wanted to.

I know the numbers. They aren't hidden. That's the crucial part many in this thread don't seem to understand. I don't have an opinion about Covid. It is "not" a virus worth destroying hundreds of millions of lives for. Period. It just isn't. Even if the false numbers were true, it still wouldn't be.

Originally Posted by savidge4

So let me throw a wrench in this for you... if what you are saying is true.. masks do not work.. why are there still doctors and nurses and aides working in hospitals? I know more than my fair share of Doctors. I know more than my fair share of nurses. and by enlarge the group with the LEAST amount of Covid... these people happen to fit into that category. remember Dr. Li Wenliang? how did he die? Yes Covid... and do your own research... but he was directed as punishment to work without a mask...

I don't "believe" masks don't work. I know they don't work. At least I know from the studies that have been done "prior" to and after Covid. They don't work. They may make you feel safe. But you won't be any less likely to hide from a virus that's gonna virus.

Even the 'feel safe' factor of masks is a red flag. I could only imagine the effects masking up the world is going to have on the human brain, on a mass scale. That'll be interesting. Young brains will be forever changed from what is happening right now. And it ain't going to be pretty that's for sure.

Originally Posted by savidge4

I think you made the argument very clear... the issue is not WHAT it is, but how to deal with it. Moderna had a vaccine formulated 2 days after China released the virus's genetic data ( January 11th the data was released and January 13th Moderna had the vaccine formulated - for those watching at home ) THAT was the easy part...

But then what? what happens until such a medication is brought to market? Your suggesting every man for themselves.. and I agree. But your thought process is not considering that the safety of those less capable of dealing with this. Stay home, don't go out, stay out of the way for the rest of us. How F'ing selfish is that?

Protect the vulnerable. That's what I said. That's "me" considering them. You don't think I have parents who are vulnerable? They certainly wouldn't want me to stay in because they can't go out. That would be absurd. They are not children, or animals.

Originally Posted by savidge4

So data / science suggest 3 things; #1 not wearing a mask is maximum vulnerability. #2 You alone wearing a mask around people not wearing a mask sits in about 30% protection ( and I will assume this number is elevated ) and then #3 both parties are wearing masks and protection jumps into the 70%+ category.

Yeah, but you can't count the science you get in a crackerjack box, right? I do listen to the science. And I'm not a believer in anything without hard evidence. It just so happens, that with this story, along with many silly stories I've heard throughout my life, there's no evidence. It's a simple fact. There are stories. There are articles that twist statistics to create whatever outcome they like. But no evidence other than the studies that have been done prior to Covid.

Originally Posted by savidge4

ALL of this is presuming that all are wearing KN95 masks at a minimum.

I have no problem with masks; if they worked. I haven't got a dog in this fight. If there was a deadly killer virus on the loose, I'd want to know about it. If masks worked, I want to know they work. If lock downs work, I want the evidence prove they do. The evidence does not match up to the story they are telling us. They are not listening to science. They are ignoring it completely.

The proof is right in front of your eyes man.

Masks are just part of the problem. It's all nonsense. Everything they do doesn't work. But that's not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is that these people are "not" idiots. They are liars. They couldn't have made worse decision if they tossed a coin.

What's more likely... the people who keep changing their story, are telling you the truth, which makes them incompetent? Or the they are telling you lies, which means they aren't incompetent after all?

Either way mate.

Originally Posted by savidge4

protect the vulnerable you say, and I agree... but what does that look like for you? they stay locked up and separated? in other words out with the bathwater right? again how F'ing selfish is that? Some guy that is over 50 and has high blood pressure ( that would be me ) has every right to goto the grocery store as some 20 something no? and should be able to do it with an amount of safety no? I wear a mask... I am in the high risk portion of this. Is YOUR right to carry on more valuable than MY right to carry on?

I think you're getting a little emotional, and irrational here. How selfish is it to destroy hundreds of millions of people's lives who are not at risk from this virus? How selfish is that? At least in my scenario the elderly have a choice. Which is what you clearly want to take away from the younger people.

Originally Posted by savidge4

So lets go a step further with this... SCIENCE dictates KN95 or better masks work.. so should it be that people with KN95 or better be allowed out? the answer to some degree is yes to this... but the reality is again supply and demand along with social economic barriers this will not be a reality.

I want a rainbow farting unicorn... but I can't have one. I don't see your point.

Originally Posted by savidge4

I am hoping this post points out that its NOT the actual disease that is the mystery / unknown... its how to deal with it at scale in a world that is far from prepared to do so. Herd immunity and letting the chips fall where they will and sending a 1/3 of the American population that fall into the "higher risk" category to cower in their homes for personal protection is far from a winner winner chicken dinner idea.

My little niece would deal with this virus better than these clowns. It's almost like they are closing their eyes and just pointing at stuff from the 'doesn't work' pile, and saying, "let's try that again"

These people aren't idiots. They are liars. Who ALWAYS loses? Who ALWAYS wins?

Originally Posted by savidge4

There is a line between "Rights" and "Respect" and maybe if there was a bit more "Respect" regardless of what any govt may mandate there would not be such an issue.

The day we respect people's wishes to take control over other people's lives, without the hard evidence to back it up, is the day we all fall. You've got it backwards. You are the selfish one.

It's so easy to tell people that something is a killer, when it really isn't. Not so easy to tell them something isn't a killer, when it really is. For that, you need to have hard evidence.

Read that again^^^

[Kay King]

News being what it is these days - 24/7, flying round all over, copeting to be louder, more shocking, more timely...sometimes you hear or read something (at least I do) that makes you sit back with a frown and go 'huh'?

One of the disconnects in news/public opinion that I've seen is the one between 'we MUST have our sports' and the teachers' unions that even today are claiming in-school education is too risky right now.

As winter sports begin across Ohio, officials with the Ohio High School Athletic Association have released requirements for players and coaches amid the coronavirus pandemic.

Among the new rules is student-athletes are permitted to wrestle, but must refrain from handshakes before and after the match.

Wrestlers are also required to wear facial coverings off the mat when not actively competing or warming up.

Another big change comes from officiating. To conclude the end of match procedure, the official may point to the winning wrestler while raising his or her own arm (with open hand) having the requisite wristband color (red/green) of the winning wrestler.

Yeah - that should do it. We ain't givin' up our wrasslin'....

[Mark Singletary]

My sister who is an admin/manager at a big hospital came down with the fake disease. She started having symptoms last Friday and a positive test came back on Sunday.

She said that a lot of her coworkers have had it. I haven't spoken to her yet because I just found out.

Mark

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

Why would the people doing all the fear mongering tell you numbers are less than what they really are?

To not scare you?

We know how the numbers are adjusted. It's actually quite simple. Maybe just as simple as stealing an election.

The numbers are vastly exaggerated. It's not as if this is a secret. You do know they openly admit they class all types of deaths as died from Covid, if they had Covid? This is not news. It's widely agreed upon. There are many instances where they have told you this.

They have to coerce you into taking a vaccine, and fear people into it, but at the same time they are lying about the numbers by telling you they are actually lower than what they really are.

Any number can be a cause for concern if that's the case. Look at the numbers in 'cases' now? Step back and just think about it. They have you all in fear of 'cases' for goodness sake. They could literally do this to you with heart attacks if they wanted to.

I know the numbers. They aren't hidden. That's the crucial part many in this thread don't seem to understand. I don't have an opinion about Covid. It is "not" a virus worth destroying hundreds of millions of lives for. Period. It just isn't. Even if the false numbers were true, it still wouldn't be.

I don't "believe" masks don't work. I know they don't work. At least I know from the studies that have been done "prior" to and after Covid. They don't work. They may make you feel safe. But you won't be any less likely to hide from a virus that's gonna virus.

Even the 'feel safe' factor of masks is a red flag. I could only imagine the effects masking up the world is going to have on the human brain, on a mass scale. That'll be interesting. Young brains will be forever changed from what is happening right now. And it ain't going to be pretty that's for sure.

Yeah, but you can't count the science you get in a crackerjack box, right? I do listen to the science. And I'm not a believer in anything without hard evidence. It just so happens, that with this story, along with many silly stories I've heard throughout my life, there's no evidence. It's a simple fact. There are stories. There are articles that twist statistics to create whatever outcome they like. But no evidence other than the studies that have been done prior to Covid.

I have no problem with masks; if they worked. I haven't got a dog in this fight. If there was a deadly killer virus on the loose, I'd want to know about it. If masks worked, I want to know they work. If lock downs work, I want the evidence prove they do. The evidence does not match up to the story they are telling us. They are not listening to science. They are ignoring it completely.

The proof is right in front of your eyes man.

Masks are just part of the problem. It's all nonsense. Everything they do doesn't work. But that's not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is that these people are "not" idiots. They are liars. They couldn't have made worse decision if they tossed a coin.

What's more likely... the people who keep changing their story, are telling you the truth, which makes them incompetent? Or the they are telling you lies, which means they aren't incompetent after all?

I think you're getting a little emotional, and irrational here. How selfish is it to destroy hundreds of millions of people's lives who are not at risk from this virus? How selfish is that? At least in my scenario the elderly have a choice. Which is what you clearly want to take away from the younger people.

I want a rainbow farting unicorn... but I can't have one. I don't see your point.

My little niece would deal with this virus better than these clowns. It's almost like they are closing their eyes and just pointing at stuff from the 'doesn't work' pile, and saying, "let's try that again"

These people aren't idiots. They are liars. Who ALWAYS loses? Who ALWAYS wins?

Agreed l bring up the best medical advise about masks, and l get psychoses to denial.

Show that Sweden has one of the lowest new daily cases and deaths on the planet, while most other countries that have pushed masks and lockdowns are skyrocketing, (seasonal fluctuations plays a part in that) and that is also forgotten.

Same pattern as the other ideal, some follow here, or l and others spent years pounding away at that til we moved on, passed away or gave up on it, even though a 12 year old kid could figure that one out online.

This also explains why in the past some after being told that this is a new, wonder drug, and has been deemed safe, that you should blindly take it.

Some in society just need or want to believe that Pharmaceutical companies and doctors know what they are doing. History doesn't show that at all.

.Most of the Covid drugs out there, are deemed safe, but have no long term studies done, or about the only one that has is the Sputnik V, vaccine, which uses the "put a piece of Covid into someone" method.

The others deliver RNA into your cells, and use monkey flu viruses as a delivery mechanism, (monkey flu virus is dormant in humans).

I believe that people in high risk categories would need to think about it, but only take the Russian one, since the others are experimental and potentially dangerous.

And seek out real advise, not some halfwit doctor, who is heavily invested in Pfizer, telling everyone that Sweden stuffed up, and if you are a healthy 25 year old, male that you are doing your grandparents in if you don't.

[savidge4]

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

100,000- are in the hospital TODAY? Did they care to mention that it's normal for this time of year. dec and jan are peak flu and pneumonia season.

Again you are trying to fight numbers here and you can't... as of TODAY there are 100,000 people in hospitals across the entire country. Normal you say. Again look at the stats I left above... From Oct 2018 to May 2019 there was a total of 490,600 people with the flu hospitalized. Right now TODAY there is 20% of the entire 8 months of flu seasons worth of patience in the hospital receiving treatment. Like I said there is currently not a source that I can find that displays the total number of cases of Covid that has been hospitalized since Feb of 2020. The number will exceed 490,600.

And again you really want to get into hospital numbers you cant look at State totals. A big city in Pittsburgh can be at or close to max vs a hospital in Warren PA ( upper NW part of the state ) and they will have few beds used. YOU are reading into the manipulation of figures... you are taking them for face value and not understanding that places like Idaho and PA have 1 or 2 big cities ( Dense Population ) that will have a higher hospital load vs the other 90% of the State that is far less populated and has more beds available and are less utilized.

You are making assumptions at best, based on a data that is manipulated to prove a point. PA is more Rural than Urban... ID is way more Rural than Urban. Idaho state wide only has 43 Hospitals. Pennsylvania has 249. Per person, Idaho has more hospitals than PA.

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

284,000 deaths? Considerng the only apparant fact we do know, is that 6% died of Covid. You can't believe that number. You simply can't.

So you are suggesting that only 17,000 people have passed due to Covid. Then you are also suggesting that the others that have passed from an underlying pre existing condition. Think about that for a moment... Ahh they had cancer and got a lung full of fluid and couldn't breath.. The cancer put them down. really?

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

Why would the people doing all the fear mongering tell you numbers are less than what they really are?

You obviously do not understand American politics do you? Take a look... look it up at the political environment in States right now that have lock downs - they happen to be all blue ( Democrat ) run States. Look at a State such as Florida as I have mentioned or my State of WV and you will hear that the Govt is low balling the numbers and staying open. Read what the CDC states.. #1 point of transmission? YOUR OWN DAMN HOME. Lock downs seems like a pretty stupid idea if you ask me. So they are keeping the number reduced to keep the masses happy to remain open.

Trump said it best.. test less and the numbers look better. I believe that the number of test vs the number of people that have Covid should damn near match. There is simply no reason to get tested unless you have symptoms - or in the case of my wife that had to have some surgery done last week, a Covid test was required prior to her visit.

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

The numbers are vastly exaggerated. It's not as if this is a secret. You do know they openly admit they class all types of deaths as died from Covid, if they had Covid? This is not news. It's widely agreed upon. There are many instances where they have told you this.

Bud, I have friends that had Covid and passed, and their death certificates stated they died of a "respiratory infection". I have also seen death certificates that state "Covid", but far more the other way.

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

They have to coerce you into taking a vaccine, and fear people into it, but at the same time they are lying about the numbers by telling you they are actually lower than what they really are.

I will not be taking the vaccine... any amount of risk outweighs the benefit at this point... its only good for like 3 to 4 months and I would have to take it again and again. Forget the fact the the overall initial order in the United States is something like 100,000,000 doses or 50,000,000 patience and a population of 330,000,000 and the current back order to get round 2 of the drug is out to July at this point. Some quick finger counting suggest that May / June will be ugly... because we will be complacent in thinking everything is ok - this is quack like a duck or Bah like a sheep

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

I don't "believe" masks don't work. I know they don't work. At least I know from the studies that have been done "prior" to and after Covid. They don't work. They may make you feel safe. But you won't be any less likely to hide from a virus that's gonna virus.

Don't take my word for it.. look it up for yourself but up until Nov 2020 the number of Healthcare personnel that have died from Covid was 2000 (+/-) The papers I have read is that number could have been reduced if it were not for the early shortage of PPE... but oh thats right Masks dont work... T

Instead of me sitting here and trying to defend my points... lets discuss more of what it is we will probably agree with. I think the Vaccine is stupid... there are better drugs that have been around for years that could have been introduced to the population months ago ( watch this: youtube.com/watch?v=Tq8SXOBy-4w ) or the nasal spray that was developed in the UK somewhere, and the list continues.

There are political and economic pressures at play here. I suspect many of these meds are made in China, and the ability to make them elsewhere is "not worth the effort" which leads to the greatest non conspiracy of them all "The Great Reset" THIS is a real deal threat... you think the nonsense going on now is bad... WOW - NOW is just the warm up to getting there.

Stay at home is according to the CDC's own data just flat out silly. Again #1 point of transmission is your own home. But lets dive into that a bit further... the "wealthier" you are the less people you will have in your house. Mom, Dad, and 2 kids. as you drop down the social economic ladder and what do you see? more people per household. People with money by enlarge do not live in multi generation households. Drop even lower and you end up with a bunch of immigrants piled into a one bedroom apartment.

Again citing CDC guidelines all it takes is 15 minutes in an enclosed space and then couple that with more people in said space and the idea of a "Lockdown" is more like Gynecide ( I said that not you )

Like I said in a previous post it is NOT AT ALL about the disease or its numbers... it is the actions taken to do our best to arrest the increase. How can this be done in a manor that doesn't lock someone up out of fear of getting it, because they are in the "high risk" category.

The part of what you are saying in the let the younger out and be free is that the top ( oldest ) 50% of any 1st world country is the portion of the population with an amount of wealth. you lock down 40+ year olds to allow the young run free and the economy crashes... lock up the 39 and unders and the economy flourishes - basic economics my friend basic economics.

As much as you are resisting the lack of "freedoms" you have to understand that you are playing into the flip side of the 2 sided propaganda machine that is determined to bring the world to a halt and reset... Keep them contained where the spread is at its worse.. or wander around free as a bird spreading the disease everywhere and everywhere and bringing the whole thing to a halt.

It is very clear that the way this has been handled has a lot to do with Supply and demand... They said dont wear masks, because there was none.. then they say wear mask and people made mask that simply do not work, because they can not get ahold of the ones that do.

We are at a point now the world over.. everyone understands the suggested protocols and the risks... there is simply no reason for lockdowns and shaking hands before or after a wrestling match is not one of them - talk about stupid. at least in WV they cancelled indoor winter sports all together BUT in OH wrestling is not a sport it is damn near religion - kinda like Texas and High School football.

With that... I will no longer defend my point, because i simply do not have to...

Thanks for the conversation tho..its good to keep the mind off the subject LOL

[tagiscom]

Well, we can forget about the jab..


https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/...dent-of-pfizer

“There is absolutely no need for vaccines to extinguish the pandemic. I’ve never heard such nonsense talked about vaccines. You do not vaccinate people who aren’t at risk from a disease. You also don’t set about planning to vaccinate millions of fit and healthy people with a vaccine that hasn’t been extensively tested on human subjects.”

Also guaranteed that mass media and bent doctors will bury this guy anyway they can, and keep pushing this hard.

[savidge4]

I am sharing this for a couple of reasons. #1 it does echo what @Declan O Flaherty has been stating. Wearing a mask does NOT protect you the wearer from getting Covid. ( with underlying caveats - N95 masks etc )

This video #2 makes a point to my explaining scenario #1 #2 and #3 #1 being no mask, and #3 being both parties wearing a mask. Like I have said before I understand wearing a mask among those not wearing one is not the best scenario to be in, but any amount of protection is better than none at all. Right about 26 seconds in, this Right minded individual that is talking about a far left written piece and agreeing for the most part states that masks are not to protect yourself, but others.

And we can go a bit further into this and look at Asian countries as an example it is within their cultural fabric that sick people wear mask, and have done so for years.

Hope you enjoy the video: youtube.com/watch?v=xYFkqYe1FLc

[Declan O Flaherty]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Some in society just need or want to believe that Pharmaceutical companies and doctors know what they are doing. History doesn't show that at all.

Pharmaceutical companies; the biggest lobbyists in Washington. What could go wrong?

Originally Posted by tagiscom

And seek out real advise, not some halfwit doctor, who is heavily invested in Pfizer, telling everyone that Sweden stuffed up, and if you are a healthy 25 year old, male that you are doing your grandparents in if you don't.

Every expert that comes out with a different view, gets silenced. It's as if some experts are just not expert enough for the people whose experts keep getting it wrong.

Insane.

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Well, we can forget about the jab..


https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/...dent-of-pfizer

Also guaranteed that mass media and bent doctors will bury this guy anyway they can, and keep pushing this hard.

They've already slandered this guy. They do it with literally everyone.

Originally Posted by savidge4

Hope you enjoy the video: youtube.com/watch?v=xYFkqYe1FLc

You're assuming there would be any point to begin with. A mask is not a simple piece of clothing. There are consequences of masking up the world for a virus no more deadly than the flu.

If this was a virus worth panicking over, and masks did enough, I'd be onboard. Why wouldn't I? Of course I would. But none of that is the case.

[Profit Traveler]

From the Wiki...

A conspiracy theory

Conspiracy theories resist falsification and are reinforced by circular reasoning: both evidence against the conspiracy and an absence of evidence for it are re-interpreted as evidence of its truth,[6][7] whereby the conspiracy becomes a matter of faith rather than something that can be proved or disproved.[8][9]

Research suggests that conspiracist ideation—belief in conspiracy theories—may be psychologically harmful or pathological[10][11] and that it is correlated with psychological projection, paranoia and Machiavellianism.[12]

Psychologists attribute finding a conspiracy where there is none to a mental phenomenon called illusory pattern perception.[13][14]


In regards to the above post...there is definitely some truth included to the pot along with some artificial fillers.

Me personally I never wanted to discuss politics...I wanted to discuss who is in charge of getting rid of a virus that could kill me or people I care about.

If we have people in charge of getting rid of this virus who are instead catching it and spreading it and we discuss everything But That, than this is a charade I think.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

Pharmaceutical companies; the biggest lobbyists in Washington. What could go wrong?

Whatever goes wrong they won't be liable.

Every expert that comes out with a different view, gets silenced. It's as if some experts are just not expert enough for the people whose experts keep getting it wrong.

Insane.

They've already slandered this guy. They do it with literally everyone.

Doesn't surprize me, l also did a search for that on Google, and found the link l posted, then changed it slightly and got no end of "Pfizer vaccine has a 94%, success rate only", in the search results, but Google isn't biased they just bury stuff they don't agree with. Youtube isn't baised either they just restrict you for posting facts they don't like, and then shut you down, if you don't comply.[/quote]

Note: The problem in this thread, is that we have to talk about Covid as an isolated event. It's not. As soon as politics is brought into the debate, the comment gets deleted. I understand why that's the case. The convo would go down many different paths and the purpose of the thread would be lost.

However, without 'context' you can never understand the truth behind the virus, and why they need to lie about the numbers.

Go elsewhere and you will get your answer, but suffice to say without going over the Berlin wall, l wouldn't want to live in California at the moment, (go to a restaurant, pull your mask down, eat, put it back up, with a burly officer with a stop watch and tazer on standby).

[Declan O Flaherty]

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

From the Wiki...

A conspiracy theory

Conspiracy theories resist falsification and are reinforced by circular reasoning: both evidence against the conspiracy and an absence of evidence for it are re-interpreted as evidence of its truth,[6][7] whereby the conspiracy becomes a matter of faith rather than something that can be proved or disproved.[8][9]

Research suggests that conspiracist ideation—belief in conspiracy theories—may be psychologically harmful or pathological[10][11] and that it is correlated with psychological projection, paranoia and Machiavellianism.[12]

Psychologists attribute finding a conspiracy where there is none to a mental phenomenon called illusory pattern perception.[13][14]


In regards to the above post...there is definitely some truth included to the pot along with some artificial fillers.

Me personally I never wanted to discuss politics...I wanted to discuss who is in charge of getting rid of a virus that could kill me or people I care about.

If we have people in charge of getting rid of this virus who are instead catching it and spreading it and we discuss everything But That, than this is a charade I think.

Stop it with the conspiracy theory nonsense willya?

I'll say it again: If there's tens of thousands of Doctors and Scientists and hundreds of millions of people who are questioning the official narrative that's riddled with holes and inaccuracies, and you call them all conspiracy theorists, then the problem clearly lies with you.

If you can't even work out that very simple, obvious fact, then how could you possibly figure out what is true and what is false?

All conspiracy theorists can't be wrong. Otherwise people in control will always be right. If you think that in itself is even possible, then you need to seriously reconsider how you have been looking at the world your entire life.

Corruption will always exist as long as humans exist. A simple fact of life my friend.


Edited by Moderator.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

Stop it with the conspiracy theory nonsense willya?


All conspiracy theorists can't be wrong. Otherwise people in control will always be right. If you think that in itself is even possible, then you need to seriously reconsider how you have been looking at the world your entire life.

Corruption will always exist as long as humans exist. A simple fact of life my friend.


Edited by Moderator.

conspiracy theorists exist to convince us there are people in control..

the great reset that is being talked about is something those in power have been trying to slow down and stop for almost a decade . now they are trying to get out ad make it like they are planning it .. the conspiracy people are freaking out ..

something about covid .. scares the crap out of the people in power .. in a way .. that pretty much every government accept a few took about the same actions .. of course they probably did the same things..because the computer told them to..

the experts fed data into computers the computers spit our results that scared the crap out of everyone in charge ..

i am seeing this as the way AI's and algorithms gain more control of the world and even gain control over those "programing the AI..

many of the industries that have shed a lot of human workers are replacing those workers with robots ..

and there is no conspiracy.. its a general trend that starts 250 years ago ..the only way to control people is to convince people the options you say they have are the only options ..


what bothers me about covid is that is seems to evolve all over the world within a few weeks so a new version is discovered and withing 2-3 weeks it is the dominant strain world wide even with all the restriction in place ..this does not fit

[Mark Singletary]

As I mentioned above, I can't even decide on whether I can take the vaccine until I know more about it because of previous allergic reactions.

Just saw this news. Not looking good.

Mark

[1Bryan]

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

From the Wiki...

A conspiracy theory

Conspiracy theories resist falsification and are reinforced by circular reasoning: both evidence against the conspiracy and an absence of evidence for it are re-interpreted as evidence of its truth,[6][7] whereby the conspiracy becomes a matter of faith rather than something that can be proved or disproved.[8][9]

There's a long list of "conspiracy theories" that turned out to be true. Conspiracy theory has often been used to shut down conversation, smear someone, etc, etc.

But ...

The idea that tobacco purposely hid science showing a link between cigarettes and cancer ...

Was once a "conspiracy theory".

The idea that Purdue Pharma intentionally hid science showing the side effects of OxyContin ...

Was once "conspiracy theory".

The idea that the US military had video of an unidentified flying object (not necessarily alien) ...

Was once a "conspiracy theory".

The idea that the sugar industry paid scientists to downplay the role of sugar with heart disease ... (and doctors around the world bought that research) ...

Was once a "conspiracy theory".

Yet all these things turned out to be true.

There's plenty more. Too many are wrapped in politics. But the point is ...

Some "conspiracy theories" are actually conspiracy truth.

And there are factual instances where scientists/medical folks were used to push untrue things on the public. Around the world.

The sugar thing is a good example -- the rest of the world kinda followed the research. It wasn't that millions in the medical system were in on it.

It's that they bought into the research as being "clean" when it was really dirty.

And they memorized it. And recited it over and over.

A conspiracy doesn't need millions.

It just needs the "right" people to push it. The ones the rest of the world kinda follows.

It's a form of "influencer marketing". Before there was social media.

Plus there's mass incompetence --

We always heard too many eggs were bad for you. Why?

One bad research paper became gospel. Around the world. And folks in the medical community were taught it, memorized it, didn't question it ...

So everyone told ya ...

Too many eggs are bad.

But then research kept popping up that pointed out that probably wasn't true.

That wasn't a conspiracy. Just bad research that got treated like gospel.

[Claude Whitacre]

Well Boys and Girls...(and the other 172 genders)

The US is now at 2,225 deaths a day, as a running 7 day average. A record.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Well Boys and Girls...(and the other 172 genders)

The US is now at 2,225 deaths a day, as a running 7 day average. A record.

Obviously, that's just your opinion brother.

[Kay King]

There's a long list of "conspiracy theories" that turned out to be true. Conspiracy theory has often been used to shut down conversation, smear someone, etc, etc.

The only reason that was posted was to slide in yet another complaint about not being allowed to post political rhetoric here.

And just the mention of 'conspiracy' and a few jump on it...no matter what the topic a thread is. "Conspiracy' is one of those subjects you can talk about and conjecture about and argue about - and never have to be right about.

l wouldn't want to live in California at the moment, (go to a restaurant, pull your mask down, eat, put it back up, with a burly officer with a stop watch and tazer on standby).

B.S. - you are thousands of miles from California and need to get your info from a better blog...one that actually knows what its talking about.

Question:

The timelines of vaccine effectiveness is not making the news much as yet. Could it be the vaccine success of 94% declines to, say, 60%? Or does it totally disappear? The seasonal flu vaccines are considered successful even though they need to taken annually and the success rates (depending on strain) are 40-67%.

Clearly the problem with a three month window of protection is that those first vaccinated would need re-vaccination before the last groups had been 'shot up' at all.


Savidge4 mentioned the problem of viral transmission in homes. I didn't give it much thought till this week...my son is quarantining because he spent time with a cousin who became sick the next day and has tested positive. My son, daughter-in-law and I live together...a temp arrangement when I sold my home and moved north that became permanent because it worked.

We are lucky. The house is large - I have the entire lower level with my office and TV/music/etc areas... My bedroom and bath are on the main level but if necessary I can live down here.

There are couches, can set up an air mattress, there is a full bath and a refrigerator on this level. If I add a microwave or toaster oven, I'm totally self sufficient...but lonely. I even have a second stairway that leads to the garage and my car without going through the rest of the house.

Talking about our 'zones' we realized just how fortunate we are. A family with children or in a small home has no way to protect family members from each other. Maybe all the lockdowns and closures have done is move the transmission of covid from public exposure to private exposure?

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Well Boys and Girls...(and the other 172 genders)

The US is now at 2,225 deaths a day, as a running 7 day average. A record.

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Obviously, that's just your opinion brother.

Caude is right or close enough for this forum, i.e. it is not opinion.

CDC COVID Data Tracker

1. TOTAL CASES
14,823,129
+186,215 New Cases


2. DEATHS IN LAST 7 DAYS
15,484


3. TOTAL DEATHS
282,785
+1,532 New Deaths

Just divide #2 by 7 days and the result is deaths per day = 2,212

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

temp test.....

That is what my first wife said

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Question:

The timelines of vaccine effectiveness is not making the news much as yet. Could it be the vaccine success of 94% declines to, say, 60%? Or does it totally disappear? The seasonal flu vaccines are considered successful even though they need to taken annually and the success rates (depending on strain) are 40-67%.

Even though the vaccines have been thoroughly tested and they are known to be effective...

We really don't know how long the effect is yet. At least I haven't read anything that gives that information clearly.

With so many thousands of test subjects already taken the vaccine, the duration of the effectiveness will be known before the rest of us need another shot.

No idea if they will be needed annually or even more often.

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

As I mentioned above, I can't even decide on whether I can take the vaccine until I know more about it because of previous allergic reactions.

Just saw this news. Not looking good.

Mark

Good information.
I'm not sure what they are allergic to, exactly. But I'm sure that will be explained shortly.

From the link;
"As is common with new vaccines the MHRA (U.K. drug regulator) have advised on a precautionary basis that people with a significant history of allergic reactions do not receive this vaccination after two people with a history of significant allergic reactions responded adversely yesterday," NHS national Medical Director for England, Professor Stephen Powis, said in the statement.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Kay King

<snip>
Savidge4 mentioned the problem of viral transmission in homes. I didn't give it much thought till this week...my son is quarantining because he spent time with a cousin who became sick the next day and has tested positive. My son, daughter-in-law and I live together...a temp arrangement when I sold my home and moved north that became permanent because it worked.

We are lucky. The house is large - I have the entire lower level with my office and TV/music/etc areas... My bedroom and bath are on the main level but if necessary I can live down here.

There are couches, can set up an air mattress, there is a full bath and a refrigerator on this level. If I add a microwave or toaster oven, I'm totally self sufficient...but lonely. I even have a second stairway that leads to the garage and my car without going through the rest of the house.

Talking about our 'zones' we realized just how fortunate we are. A family with children or in a small home has no way to protect family members from each other. Maybe all the lockdowns and closures have done is move the transmission of covid from public exposure to private exposure?

That sounds great Kay. Something else to consider is "shared air" wherein you all share the same air via ducts? Animals may play a part too?

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

As I mentioned above, I can't even decide on whether I can take the vaccine until I know more about it because of previous allergic reactions.

Just saw this news. Not looking good.

Mark

Mark, you have every right to be concerned and me personally I would only rely on the advise of a personal medical doctor experienced with the virus.

[Declan O Flaherty]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

As I mentioned above, I can't even decide on whether I can take the vaccine until I know more about it because of previous allergic reactions.

Just saw this news. Not looking good.

Mark

There's a story here about four people developing Bell's Palsy. I read the other day that five people have died. I don't know if that's true. Two I know for sure. Who can say with so much disinformation coming from irresponsible media outlets?

Buyer beware.

Of course, side effects are common with all drugs, so it's not an alarm in and of itself. However, it's worrying how some people would not think long and hard about injecting a rushed vaccine into their body, especially when the company itself is resolved of any come back if it goes horribly wrong.

Weigh the trade-off.

Is it any wonder why so many people are cagey about taking it? One thing is for sure regardless, a vaccine should never, ever, ever be mandatory. Like, ever!

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

Caude is right or close enough for this forum, i.e. it is not opinion.

CDC COVID Data Tracker

1. TOTAL CASES
14,823,129
+186,215 New Cases


2. DEATHS IN LAST 7 DAYS
15,484


3. TOTAL DEATHS
282,785
+1,532 New Deaths

Just divide #2 by 7 days and the result is deaths per day = 2,212

I did not cross sides, that was just an acknowledgment / personal jab at Claude for a ghosted post of his that you apparently did not see.

I personally agree that the death count is wrong. However, I believe the number is 30 to 40K lighter than being currently reported.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

I did not cross sides, that was just an acknowledgment / personal jab at Claude for a ghosted post of his that you apparently did not see.

I personally agree that the death count is wrong. However, I believe the number is 30 to 40K lighter than being currently reported.

What is a ghosted post?

[Kay King]

That sounds great Kay. Something else to consider is "shared air" wherein you all share the same air via ducts? Animals may play a part too?

So - don't breathe? great, just great...j/k


I had to put my Roxie Mooch (dog) to sleep last week.. adopted her as a rescue last January - been treating her for cancer for 4 months and it was time to let her go. She was older than we thought - but we gave her a great last year. My son's dog (100 lbs of sweetie) is with me right now - she goes back and forth trying to keep an eye on all of us since her friend Roxie disappeared. I won't shut her out so it is what it is....but that's the case anyway, isn't it?

[Frank Donovan]

After what seems like an interminable back and forth links war, it looks like an actual discussion has broken out in the thread. Who'd a thunk it?

I agree with those expressing reservations about the vaccine. It's clearly too soon to be making any claims about game-changing and I'd also resist any moves to make it mandatory. But if it helps to get businesses open again, that has to be a plus.

The point about indoor transmission is interesting. One of the many things we still don't know is how the initial viral load impacts on the severity and ultimate recovery from the disease, but It's possible that prolonged and/or concentrated exposure could be a crucial factor. To me, that's a good enough reason to justify masks. If wearing a mask in enclosed public spaces reduces the viral load just enough to make the disease less severe and results in more people getting a milder version, maybe that would be one way of building some degree of immunity in the population. In any case, it seems worth the inconvenience.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

What is a ghosted post?

Ghost = Moderator deleted

[1Bryan]

Originally Posted by Kay King

The only reason that was posted was to slide in yet another complaint about not being allowed to post political rhetoric here.

Meh.

Part of the problem is politics is intertwined. It was being politicized before we ever knew it even left China. And if you track the PR companies hired all throughout ...

It makes sense.

The vaccine manufacturers are currently spending huge $$$ on worldwide campaigns.

The thing that tickles me about 2020 is ... being apolitical lets you talk more freely.

But also makes folks who only see Coke and Pepsi ...

Think you wear a tinfoil hat. And it's like no. There's more options than just Coke, Pepsi, tinfoil hat ;-)

You know 2020's funny --

When people falsely equate heavily cited peer review science ...

With newspapers.

P.S. It's also funny to see what can be claimed on TV and papers ...

But not legally in a sales letter.

PR companies have more leeway. If they can "seed" a conversation. It lets the client be one step removed. Technically it's not "advertising".

That's the trick of a good PR campaign. The "news" becomes your advertising.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

So - don't breathe? great, just great...j/k


I had to put my Roxie Mooch (dog) to sleep last week.. adopted her as a rescue last January - been treating her for cancer for 4 months and it was time to let her go. She was older than we thought - but we gave her a great last year. My son's dog (100 lbs of sweetie) is with me right now - she goes back and forth trying to keep an eye on all of us since her friend Roxie disappeared. I won't shut her out so it is what it is....but that's the case anyway, isn't it?

I'm truly sorry to hear about you lost doggie. I only have two cats (which equals one dog), and I know if we lost one, it would be a huge loss.

Originally Posted by Jeffery

What is a ghosted post?

I wrote a brilliant...perhaps genius level response to a post.

It was slathered in sarcasm, although I actually edited it a little to take out the most egregious parts.

To be honest, I assumed it would be deleted, and maybe get me Banned. It was up all of a few seconds, probably as it should have been.

Whoever deleted it probably saved me from looking like a complete ass to the rest of the world.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Whoever deleted it probably saved me from looking like a complete ass to the rest of the world.

To late!



--------



Chickenpox, Chickenpox, Chickenpox...

I want to talk about chickenpox for a minute. Why? Because I've never met nor read about anyone thinking that chickenpox was fake. Just to be clear, this is a virus that puts between 11,000 and 12,000 kids per year in the hospital with severe complications, and about 100 or so die. Now people might argue over those stats, but I've never heard an argument that it doesn't exist. Have you? I think if you're over 35 and live in the USA, then you probably even went to a chickenpox party as a kid, and if you're over 50 then probably you brought your children to one. I went to one, my mom brought all her kids and, she said her mom and grandmother did the same. From what I can tell, in a lot of parts of this country, it was standard practice to do so. But basically, for most people, most of the time, you get some bumps and become a little itchy and maybe get a headache and, that's that. However, that's not really the end of the story. It remains dormant (or latent) in the ganglia adjacent to the spinal cord (called the dorsal root ganglion) or the trigeminal ganglion in the base of the skull.

Shingles is caused by the varicella-zoster virus — the same virus that causes chickenpox. After you've had chickenpox, the virus lies inactive in nerve tissue near your spinal cord and brain. Years later, the virus may reactivate as shingles.

In other words, thirty or maybe even sixty or so years after you initially get chickenpox, you find out that that it never left, and it's now causing you pain. From what I understand, a lot of it. I just found out my uncle has been going through a bout of shingles on his face and neck and it's bad.

Also, it turns out, that because of the way the chickenpox vaccine is made, it also, remains with you and can become shingles when your body is compromised.

Which brings me to in part the point of this post. Shingles have been well documented and being worked on (looking for a cure and answers)...since the 1800s and it wasn't until 2006 that they managed to bring a shingles vaccine to market. They started on it in 1950 and shortly thereafter made the connection between chickenpox and shingles.

So, I hear my uncle has some painful shingles on his face, I don't know what shingles are, so I look it up and I find all kinds of info including long drawn out discussions and arguments from doctors and laymen about chickenpox and shingles, and all I keep circling back to in my mind, is, if chickenpox brings about shingles, what does covid19 get us?

Can you imagine?
If so, wear a mask.



- anyway, it's just a thought.

[agmccall]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

what group of people is that?

Rioters, Looters, and your run of the mill everyday anarchist. Very healthy people. They do not seem to catch or spread covid. At least there are no reports of it

al

[Mark Singletary]

Originally Posted by 1Bryan

But also makes folks who only see Coke and Pepsi ...

Think you wear a tinfoil hat. And it's like no. There's more options than just Coke, Pepsi, tinfoil hat ;-)

You aren't a Sam's Choice cola kind of guy are you?

Mark

[Kay King]

The argument about other diseases may make an unintended point. A few years ago measles and several other childhood diseases (that could be deadly or have consequences (like shingles) were listed as 'eradicated'.

Then the 'anti-vaccination' movement became a 'thing' and people stopped vaccinating their children. A couple years later those same diseases made a comeback.

Children used to die of measles and whooping cough - just as they did of polio (another viral disease). The so-called 'parties' for chickenpox, if they happened, would have been for boys mainly - because adult males can be sterilized by chickenpox.

What stopped epidemics of measles, and chickenpox, whooping cough and polio?

Vaccines


If my doctor thinks I should take a vaccine - I'll take it. Simple as that for me.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Children used to die of measles and whooping cough - just as they did of polio (another viral disease). The so-called 'parties' for chickenpox, if they happened, would have been for boys mainly - because adult males can be sterilized by chickenpox.

What stopped epidemics of measles, and chickenpox, whooping cough and polio?

Vaccines


If my doctor thinks I should take a vaccine - I'll take it. Simple as that for me.

I saw dozens of names on the family tree that never made it past the age of five, due to some of those.

Originally Posted by Kay King

because adult males can be sterilized by chickenpox.

...In all of that crap I was reading, I never read that. lol, ouch

I haven't made up my mind yet about the vaccine, I was all in at first, but some dodgy info has come out since, such as the allergy thing. I have an allergy to peanuts, so for me, it might boil down to what is available and when.

[Kay King]

Ken - I'll admit I didn't click on the 'allergy' links in this thread ...but news I read ealier today said "2 people in the UK had allergic reactions".


If I had an allergy problem, I'd think twice and talk to my doctor....Absent an allergy problem, not something I'd worry about. That's how my mind works.


AP has reported both persons who suffered the allergic reactions have recovered. Both of those people carry epi pens due to severe allergies. At least that was reported.

[Kay King]

Ken - I'll admit I didn't click on the 'allergy' links in this thread ...but news I read ealier today said "2 people in the UK had allergic reactions".


If I had an allergy problem, I'd think twice and talk to my doctor....Absent an allergy problem, not something I'd worry about. That's how my mind works.


AP has reported both persons who suffered the allergic reactions have recovered. Both of those people carry epi pens due to severe allergies. At least that was reported.

[Profit Traveler]

Originally Posted by Kay King

The argument about other diseases may make an unintended point. A few years ago measles and several other childhood diseases (that could be deadly or have consequences (like shingles) were listed as 'eradicated'.

Then the 'anti-vaccination' movement became a 'thing' and people stopped vaccinating their children. A couple years later those same diseases made a comeback.

Children used to die of measles and whooping cough - just as they did of polio (another viral disease). The so-called 'parties' for chickenpox, if they happened, would have been for boys mainly - because adult males can be sterilized by chickenpox.

What stopped epidemics of measles, and chickenpox, whooping cough and polio?

Vaccines


If my doctor thinks I should take a vaccine - I'll take it. Simple as that for me.

The exact same people that do not take COVID seriously and are in charge of creating policies for it allowed millions to die from Tobacco saying it was not proven to be unsafe for decades.




How would we define a super spreader event in a pandemic?


2 words. Crazy or Cash.


Having a huge wedding.


Filling a movie theater or Disneyland


Having a concert.


Defiance, considering a mask a muzzle.


Having a rally, for example for motor cycle clubs.


Parties on and on.

[Kay King]

The tobacco settlement was over 20 years ago - the lawsuits began 40 years before that....I doubt if it's the 'same people'.


What does you comment have to do with my post in the first place?

[Profit Traveler]

Originally Posted by 1Bryan

There's a long list of "conspiracy theories" that turned out to be true. Conspiracy theory has often been used to shut down conversation, smear someone, etc, etc.

But ...

The idea that tobacco purposely hid science showing a link between cigarettes and cancer ...

Was once a "conspiracy theory".

The idea that Purdue Pharma intentionally hid science showing the side effects of OxyContin ...

Was once "conspiracy theory".

The idea that the US military had video of an unidentified flying object (not necessarily alien) ...

Was once a "conspiracy theory".

The idea that the sugar industry paid scientists to downplay the role of sugar with heart disease ... (and doctors around the world bought that research) ...

Was once a "conspiracy theory".

Yet all these things turned out to be true.

There's plenty more. Too many are wrapped in politics. But the point is ...

Some "conspiracy theories" are actually conspiracy truth.

And there are factual instances where scientists/medical folks were used to push untrue things on the public. Around the world.

The sugar thing is a good example -- the rest of the world kinda followed the research. It wasn't that millions in the medical system were in on it.

It's that they bought into the research as being "clean" when it was really dirty.

And they memorized it. And recited it over and over.

A conspiracy doesn't need millions.

It just needs the "right" people to push it. The ones the rest of the world kinda follows.

It's a form of "influencer marketing". Before there was social media.

Plus there's mass incompetence --

We always heard too many eggs were bad for you. Why?

One bad research paper became gospel. Around the world. And folks in the medical community were taught it, memorized it, didn't question it ...

So everyone told ya ...

Too many eggs are bad.

But then research kept popping up that pointed out that probably wasn't true.

That wasn't a conspiracy. Just bad research that got treated like gospel.

This was a great post!


But someone here mentioned the word Qanon and it is entirely based on conspiracies and the people making decisions on COVID embrace them.


*Another one you could have mentioned is why Gun Stats are not made public.


Man I am wondering what kids history books are going to look like next year.

[Kay King]

Declan -

Two I know for sure.

The only references I can find to any deaths from covid vaccine...were during the trials - and in both cases, the volunteers were not given the vaccine but received the control shot (placebo).


When you are working with thousands of people (or even hundreds) it's possible some may die during that time. Maybe there were more - but if so I can't find them documented.


I'm not claiming the vaccine is 100% safe - but where did you get the 'deaths' you mentioned?

[Jeffery]

Mother nature sometimes heals itself. Remember Global Warming and the Amazon Rain Forest Ozone problem.


Mother nature is at survival risk owed to over population? Would mother nature heal itself? How?


Remember bees from the south and murder hornets from the north entering the U.S.? It seems mother nature's honey bees have found an effective way to ward off the murder hornet's attack on the bee's hives.


Could the bees have the answer to the COVID problem?


I read the other day that five bees have died. I don't know if that's true. Two I know for sure. Who can say with so much disinformation coming from forum posters?

Buyer beware.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Kay King

B.S. - you are thousands of miles from California and need to get your info from a better blog...one that actually knows what its talking about.
?

True, Kay, l don't live there, and l am sorry to hear about your dog.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gavin-n...sk-restaurant/

My last remark was satire but mixed in with reality.

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Even though the vaccines have been thoroughly tested and they are known to be effective...

We really don't know how long the effect is yet. At least I haven't read anything that gives that information clearly.

With so many thousands of test subjects already taken the vaccine, the duration of the effectiveness will be known before the rest of us need another shot.

No idea if they will be needed annually or even more often.

From the link;
"As is common with new vaccines the MHRA (U.K. drug regulator) have advised on a precautionary basis that people with a significant history of allergic reactions do not receive this vaccination after two people with a history of significant allergic reactions responded adversely yesterday," NHS national Medical Director for England, Professor Stephen Powis, said in the statement.

From a reputable source.

[LGCalab]

Just saw this on facebook

"Remember back when we used to eat cake after someone blew all over it?"
"Man, we were wild..."

[savidge4]

To answer a few questions here #1 "Allergies" relates to the reaction from the first dose of the vaccine and not hay fever. As I am sure you know the vaccine is given through 2 injections. The first injection is only a half dose, and the second injection is a full does. ( hope that makes sense. ) What they are suggesting is if you had a allergic reaction to the half dose injection you would not want to take the second full dose injection.

So before you read the text below... I would like you to read this article: https://www.chicagotribune.com/coron...g3a-story.html

I am not in any way a "conspiracy theorists", I do my very best in educating myself when making statements like the one I am about to make.

The "Vaccine" is NOT a "Vaccine". If we look at the definition for vaccine: A vaccine is a biological preparation that provides active acquired immunity to a particular infectious disease.

The setup in this article, and others like it, as well as digging deep into medical reports is suggesting that the testing analysis was based on symptoms and not testing negative. THIS "vaccine" is an "Inhibitor". A whole lot of digging found in a to be un named medical companies study findings that people that have taken the vaccine CAN become A Systematic.

Kids... A Systematic means you have Covid, but are not showing symptoms... Read the definition of "Vaccine" and then explain how one could be A Systematic. And THEN on top of that remember hearing 94% ( article says 95% ) effective? Read this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/coronav...h=7fb2d4295a42 and scroll to reason #3

We have been sold a lie. There are drugs ( left a link to a Doctor in front of the Senate the other day naming and explaining one ) that could have been deployed MONTHS ago, that are more effective than this. There are existing drugs that went through the 10 years of FDA testing for other ailments... but all of the known side effects and long term effects of taking said medication is known at this point.

What REALLY chaps my hide here is Mederna identified and started testing its "Vaccine" 2 days after getting the gnome. and yet received 10's of Billions of dollars for research. There were HUNDREDS of billions if not a trillion plus spent from the likes of the Gates foundation and governments from around the world, for something that was identified in 2 days - and is not an actual "Vaccine" and might be 50% effective.

The DRUG is less effective than an N-95 Mask.

I would love the ability to follow the money trail on this one, because this is flat out corruption on a world scale.

[Declan O Flaherty]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Declan -

The only references I can find to any deaths from covid vaccine...were during the trials - and in both cases, the volunteers were not given the vaccine but received the control shot (placebo).

When you are working with thousands of people (or even hundreds) it's possible some may die during that time. Maybe there were more - but if so I can't find them documented.

I'm not claiming the vaccine is 100% safe - but where did you get the 'deaths' you mentioned?

Yeah Kay, it was in the trial stages. Here's the link I read it from...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...rial-have-died

I wasn't making any claims. I just remember reading it the other day.

[Declan O Flaherty]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

Mother nature sometimes heals itself. Remember Global Warming and the Amazon Rain Forest Ozone problem.

Mother nature is at survival risk owed to over population? Would mother nature heal itself? How?

Remember bees from the south and murder hornets from the north entering the U.S.? It seems mother nature's honey bees have found an effective way to ward off the murder hornet's attack on the bee's hives.

Could the bees have the answer to the COVID problem?

I read the other day that five bees have died. I don't know if that's true. Two I know for sure. Who can say with so much disinformation coming from forum posters?

Buyer beware.

First. There isn't a Covid problem; there's a common sense problem.

Second. A vaccine that should meet ALL the usual safety requirements takes 10 years to develop. If you cut that time by a factor of 12, where have the corners been cut?

Safety. Obviously. Hence the reason these companies filed to not be liable for whatever nasty side effects their rushed vaccine will inevitably cause.

This isn't difficult. It's just common sense.

And all this for a virus with a 99.97% survival rate.

Insane.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

First. There isn't a Covid problem; there's a common sense problem.

Second. A vaccine that should meet ALL the usual safety requirements takes 10 years to develop. If you cut that time by a factor of 12, where have the corners been cut?

Safety. Obviously. Hence the reason these companies filed to not be liable for whatever nasty side effects their rushed vaccine will inevitably cause.

This isn't difficult. It's just common sense.

And all this for a virus with a 99.97% survival rate.

Insane.

Your right, when a problem does not exist a solution does not exist.

Administrating a vaccine to thousands of people for a problem that does not exist isn't difficult. It's just common sense.