[Kay King]

From what I've read most vaccine centers have you wait for 15 mins of so before leaving just in case there is a reaction.


I watch the local news where it (EVERY night) shows people getting shots but on the site where I'm supposed to set an appt....day after day it's 'no appts available. Then on the news next day it tells people to call to make an appt.... bureaucrazy (not a typo)




Cue up the Twilight Zone music.....

Imagine a vaccine so safe you have to be threatened to take it....
For a disease so deadly you have to be tested to know you have it.

[Claude Whitacre]

Just a heads up.

We just talked to a customer today that told me that he got his vaccine today at the local Drug Mart. I called and they are going to call me in a few days with an appointment.

It seems that there are several places in town you can get a vaccine. Several drug store chains and Wal-Mart pharmacy.

Good.

[Profit Traveler]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Just a heads up.

We just talked to a customer today that told me that he got his vaccine today at the local Drug Mart. I called and they are going to call me in a few days with an appointment.

It seems that there are several places in town you can get a vaccine. Several drug store chains and Wal-Mart pharmacy.

Good.

People get on here not in America preaching about what Americans should do....(political comment removed) I am American but not in America and it is more strict here and more safe and damn near getting back to normal.

I applaud Claude...yes I said it that way cus it rhymed hahaha but just the attitude to do what will get rid of this pandemic instead of being rebellious and making it last.

We all need to short term sacrifice and get to normal...you don't pretend normal following whatever talking head or wiki suits you because that prolongs the pandemic.

Not preaching here and not calling others ignorant for not agreeing.

[highhopes]

Strange? I read other papers, Netherlands, about 87,000 nurses refusing the vaccine, and yet our UK main stream papers say nothing about this??? Other news medias are saying it is a lie or misleading? And yet the news in the Netherlands are reporting this?

https://nursingnews.in/netherlands-8...id-19-vaccine/

Strange but true?

[highhopes]

Oh, because I own a Volkswagen vehicle I followed the case to a certain extent when they when the company were sued in court to get compensation for the false emission tests, remember a few years back?

well this lawyer Dr Reiner Fuellmich the Consumer protection trial lawyer and other German lawyers are beginning a class action lawsuit against the people who promoted the PCR test.?????

Very odd, he has been banned from youtube, violation of terms? (link removed by mod)

What the hell?

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/dr-re...Y3KUDjzI6.html

[Kay King]

Found his video on YouTube - he and three others are attempting to sue the W.H.O. for the pandemic, the tests, the info or lack thereof, etc.


In comments section, it was clear he has a lot of followers but one comment was interesting to me.

At the beginning of the pandemic, the Chancellor from Austria said: "Each of us will soon know someone from our family or friends who died from the virus." But now have a look around. Each of us knows someone who has lost his job or is facing bankruptcy. many greetings from Europe.

There was a time when natural disasters and pandemics were blamed on fate or God - now we look for reasons and for someone tangible to sue.



In Texas, millions of people are without power in some of the coldest weather that state has had....because their windmills that provide electricity there....froze.



One thing this pandemic has done is point out where we are weakest. How easily our supply chain can be disrupted...how quickly politicians at local and state levels can take control of businesses and citizens. We discovered a need for regulation of emergency (PPE,etc) supplies as govts at all levels don't voluntarily spend money where it doesn't get votes and re-stocking is that sort of expense. The problems in Texas are proof that 'green energy' isn't as self sufficient as some would have you believe...at least not yet.


The question that won't be answered for many years - or decades - is whether we learned anything from this pandemic...or not.

[Bewley]

Originally Posted by highhopes

Strange? I read other papers, Netherlands, about 87,000 nurses refusing the vaccine, and yet our UK main stream papers say nothing about this??? Other news medias are saying it is a lie or misleading? And yet the news in the Netherlands are reporting this?

https://nursingnews.in/netherlands-8...id-19-vaccine/

Strange but true?

Our UK media is probably saying nothing about it, because it's BS.

https://www.logically.ai/factchecks/library/d6ef4e50

https://www.poynter.org/?ifcn_misinf...ainst-covid-19

[highhopes]

This is getting a bit scary! Should i have the Vax??? All my family are having it.
I am bumping into people ( ha ha not literally, Social distance bumping) quite a few are now getting wary?

The Dr Reiner Fuellmich video interested me, because why would someone expose himself to ridicule? Obviously he thinks there is a case?
Sorry, I have come in right at the end of this thread. Unbelievable amount of interest here on the subject.

Another thing I don`t understand is there seems to be demonstrations in a lot of Countries seen on a non mains stream platform like UK BBC, etc. Why I wonder? Is it because they dont want to frighten the public?

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by highhopes

This is getting a bit scary! Should i have the Vax??? All my family are having it.
I am bumping into people ( ha ha not literally, Social distance bumping) quite a few are now getting wary?

The Dr Reiner Fuellmich video interested me, because why would someone expose himself to ridicule? Obviously he thinks there is a case?
Sorry, I have come in right at the end of this thread. Unbelievable amount of interest here on the subject.

Another thing I don`t understand is there seems to be demonstrations in a lot of Countries seen on a non mains stream platform like UK BBC, etc. Why I wonder? Is it because they dont want to frighten the public?

That article was published last year when the vaccine was still being proven, always look at the date of these things, the vaccine has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt now and is safe to take, and it works.

[Princess Balestra]

2 ways to go rn.

Eithah you trust the people tryin' to save your ass dun their homework sufficient to roll out a slooshin gaht minimal risk they can figure rn ...

or you run with an alien fulla indiscriminate slayin' powah don't give af 'bout nuthin' but its deepo instinct self.

I'm with the hooman people, bcs we jus' wanna smoochie.

What mattahs now is how we plan for 202x an' beyond now we had a unifyin' light shinered on alla usselves.

the random vulnerability
of essential cogs in the wheel
has way more implications
than anythin' we may feel

[socialentry]

Originally Posted by Kay King

There was a time when natural disasters and pandemics were blamed on fate or God - now we look for reasons and for someone tangible to sue.

Oh.... NO!!

Heaven forbid that the citizenry hold government officials accountable instead of just consulting the Oracle of Delphi.

We're swimming in a sea of COVID-19 due to sheer incompetence.Several lawsuits is the very very very least that should be expected, not to mention being docked a couple dozen points in opinion polls.

[highhopes]

Hmm, on the surface it sounds plausible? Just can`t help but wonder why so many Doctors and professors of medicine are sending out stark warnings about the vaccine program?
Don`t know what I will do Vaccine or no Vaccine? At the moment I am sceptical of it.

Bill and Melinda gates vaccine programs in India.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities...le24740588.ece


Interviews with Indian Lawyer on the cases there and more?
https://brandnewtube.com/watch/bill-...tC3ToguED.html

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Kay King

In Texas, millions of people are without power in some of the coldest weather that state has had....because their windmills that provide electricity there....froze.

.

Thats not really true at all. The state’s decision to skirt federal oversight by operating its own power grid is one of the main reasons that close to 3.3 million residents in Texas still lack electricity.

O ...and perhaps a dash of not believing in climate change. IF (TX) did, those turbines would have been severe weather proofed, for cold, like they are everywhere else in the world that gets cold.

[art72]

There's always two sides to every argument, there are people that prefer to seek all-natural remedies - while others are glued to their televisions awaiting instruction from experts, or so-called experts.

I for one, feel there is far fewer people willing to dig in to the data available... and as such, the majority either just "tune-in" for instructions or take for granted what might be at stake if they "do not" comply.

I'm going to be 100% transparent. I self medicate. I smoke weed to relax and curb my self-diagnosed attention deficit.

There too, I rarely unless absolutely necessary eat an Advil or prescribed drugs. There's a few I actually like way too much to risk rekindling an old addiction.

But, needles... filled with God know what, I would rather wrestle a 10' alligator in the swamps of Florida than walk into a clinic and be injected with something they "do not" have to disclose what's in that vile!

I'm all for those getting vaccinated, as that is their freewill to choose to do so. But, since this thread posted at the beginning of all this - a lot has changed.

The impact this "Kung Flu" has had globally appears to be syndicated across the globe on every established media network... To wit, it is being pushed like crack cocaine on an inner-city street corner... and I sincerely cannot get a grip on why the hell is everyone so frightened, lacking any faith in human biology, and the fact; to date thefe's a high 99% success rate.

I'll leave the deeper conspiracies alone, as the real impact now seems to be; if a social media owner and other tech giants can silence a man holding the nuclear codes to America's military arsenal... and de-platform anyone who contests these action (*be you of the right or the left) - I'd say our entire world has just been crippled something wicked.

If this virus can cause this much dissent in a country that rivals in free speech - democracy - and bipartisanship to the extent no-one fully trusts the systems in place... (*I never have, myself) - why would we trust such horrible actors, script writers, or only "tune-in" to channels that seldom (*if ever) promote health, wealth, and happiness?

I might just get stoned to death before any of this "makes sense" to me... as I have been mentally, physically, spiritually, and financially cripple since 2004... The last time someone decided to "flip-a-switch" and bankrupt business owners.

To me, and be it not of the popular opinion... this whole mess smells like one big spam ad for those in power to gain more control.

How the hell are we supposed to trust those running the show if they insist they are beyond contestation?

I'd just assume ignore the virus, the masks, and the vaccines altogether and "tune-in" to Dr. Bruce Lipton (*and others) who promote Epigenetic Control - or - listen to "The Wisdom of Your Cells" free audiobook on YouTube... Makes more sense than 99% of the fear-porn being slung across syndicated networks!

Seriously... when have we ever witnessed such a disruption in the flow of humanity on a global scale such as this?

I would say; Hitler comes to mind, Eugenics, and a reckless abuse of power cannot be ignored...

So, as far as business, marketing, or holding your own building on nearly any platform these days...

I wonder what would've happened to "Agora Financial" if they suppressed knowledge of a potential medicine with a 1 in 70 billion odds of causing problems - over a rushed vax that not only guarantees any prevention, cure, or sustained result... As all vax manufacturers are boldly stating right up front...

Yet, entire platforms can breech FTC health disclaimers, silence potential alternatives to vaccines, and do so without being held liable or accountable for the number of people that may have died - not getting a 70 year old dose of medicine?

No. I'll observe. I'll wait until I am either sick, dying, or dead... They are not injecting me with a damn thing!

Sorry, I do not trust this "power play" or the infringements upon our human rights - be it the 1st Amendment, 2nd Amendment, or any other human right to denounce this as anything less than a human experiment... I refuse to be a guinea pig... No thanks.

I just hope we can all get along until the smoke settles and the ashes clear... Which at this point, it doesn't seem the powers that be wish or want to start sending any positive "Environmental Signals!" - such as health, wealth, or happiness!

We all live within one big ass "Petri Dish" - I find it hard to believe; so many fear dying at the expense of a little drop of poison (*covid-19) introduced to the entirety of humanity.

That pains me to witness how many await permission and how few stand against such threats... Especially, a threat manufactured in a lab that magically escaped - just like HIV and H1N1... but suddenly we're all going to die?

Yeah, "Momento mori"... but until then, we are not sheep!

[Gary Floyd]

Big Pharma can't prove a negative any better than the rest of us. Rather than crow about their inability to rebut an illogical argument, recognize the demonstrable fact that vaccines work whether or not you know what's in them or trust the people making them.

[art72]

Originally Posted by Gary Floyd

recognize the demonstrable fact that vaccines work whether or not you know what's in them or trust the people making them.

I respect that POV to a degree.

With the exception; big pharma themselves is offering zero guarantee that they do work.

Maybe my grandson being diagnosed with Autism after being vaccinated for school raised my suspicions... I don't know.

All I know is the direction this appears to be headed appears "everyone" will be required to get vaccinated or risk certain privileges, such as travel, etc.

Maybe if big pharma was liable in the event they do more damage than good - I could agree with your confidence level.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Gary Floyd

Big Pharma can't prove a negative any better than the rest of us. Rather than crow about their inability to rebut an illogical argument, recognize the demonstrable fact that vaccines work whether or not you know what's in them or trust the people making them.

Agreed, Art72., that long post and all it's contents are totally irrelevant. The vaccine works and is already beginning to make an impact across all countries. Look at the results in Israel. Proven to work, proven to have no real side effects.

500k now dead in the US. Do you want to possibly be part of the statistics?, simple choice really, take the vaccine and the odds that you will, will plummet to almost zero.

Your lucky that the majority of the population will, which will reduce the death stats due to herd immunity, but, you will always be vulnerable and you get it because you had not been vaccinated. Ever had the flu? Well Covid will still be around, running alongside the flu, but if you get it, it's potentially far more dangerous than the flu. Deaths from the flu are generally because people are old, ill, or of a weak disposition. Deaths from Covid can kill anyone, healthy or not, its indiscriminate in who it affects, you can be as healthy as an Ox and still die from it. So, get the vaccine.

I must admit, I was a little on the fence about getting vaccinations for the childhood illnesses like measles, mumps etc. I have had them all and the mortality rate is very low. I can still see the argument against pumping all sorts of of vaccines and potions into your body for every little thing. It can still be argued that for low risk viruses it is better to let your bodies defence systems naturally grow stronger by going through them. You will never get them again. I may be wrong but that while these vaccines may last for decades, it is not for life. Do you get a reminder in 50 years?. Will where you are have them still available in 50 years? Also, if you get them late in life, the symptoms are far more severe.

But Covid is not open for debate, 2.5 million world deaths from it in less than a year, that's huge. So I for one will be getting it.

[Profit Traveler]

Originally Posted by art72

But, needles... filled with God know what, I would rather wrestle a 10' alligator in the swamps of Florida than walk into a clinic and be injected with something they "do not" have to disclose what's in that vile!

And after your "CigaWeed" self medicating..what types of things do you put in your mouth? McDonalds? Processed Snacks? Brave man.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by lanfear63

500k now dead in the US. Do you want to possibly be part of the statistics?, simple choice really, take the vaccine and the odds that you will, will plummet to almost zero.

-eNuff said!

If that doesn't get through to someone, nothing will.

With the caveat of;
Indecision is a decision.

[art72]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

-eNuff said!

If that doesn't get through to someone, nothing will.

With the caveat of;
Indecision is a decision.

With the utmost most respect Richard, those numbers confuse me a little bit.

We all know; "if you want the truth follow the money trails" - and many have come forward stating they lost someone that was not a Covid-19 death, but the 'death certificate' read cause of death; "Covid-19"

Reports suggest; a death certificate stating C-19 as cause of death has a federal financial value... Just saying.

Dr. Fauci whom I personally "do not" perceive as an expert, at all "projected" there to be 2.2 Million deaths back in Feb/March 2020... We are nowhere near those projections!!!

Even in the event we look at *327,000,000 (*or so) Americans...

@ .002% death toll = 654,000 (*which we ARE approaching!"

Meaning: There is a 99.98% + survival rate ATM.

I'd estimate (*guesstimate) there's an 80/20 split in those seeking to be vaccinated A.S.H.F.P. - representing the 80% are of the mindset it's less risky than taking a chance of being in that .002% who die of C-19.

It would be illogical for me to simply dismiss that 500k have died... I do not lack empathy or compassion for the victims or the family members who have lost someone to the virus.

That holds a certain fear in me as well to "do the right thing!"

But, side-effects from drugs can take years to manifest... This vax is brand new, no animal trials, no human trials, just straight into the veins of anyone who is willing to go get it!

A 117 year old nun beat Covid... Children have nearly a 0% chance of death. The science is skewed ATM...

Yet, states like California are already talking about vaccinating (*otherwise healthy children) before allowing them to return to school.

I am neither anti-medicine, nor anti-vax provided the studies show they are safe...

I have 3 grandchildren... I have (1) who has severe autism which didn't manifest until he received his school rounds of vaccine.

Perhaps, that percentage is considered tolerable... that child will like never be right.

I cannot prove it was the medicine or side effects, and even if I could Big Pharma operates with "Blanket Immunity" since President Reagan signed it into law to protect US Citizens against biological threats, such as Anthrax -or- now C-19.

I know I am in the 20% who is scared shitless of needles, vaccines, and maybe my research to date is in-line with what many may define as being a "conspiracy theory" - but if the "environmental signals" influence our human behavior - shouldn't we consider who is sending those signals???

All I hear on the news is Covid, death, disease, division, hostility, war, racism, and once in a blue moon we hear a nun at age 117 survived the covid...

Why are we "tuning-in" to these frequencies, it is not healthy...

I'm afraid of Covid - I am not ignorant towards it. But, it was created in a "petri dish" - in a lab... WHY???

Sorry, I have perhaps researched too much... whereas, most people click on the tv - Lester Holt or Katie Kurig say; "go get the cure" and I am like who the hell are these people to be pushing dope if not for some financial gain...

After all, watch the commercials aired during their broadcasts... Just like the Superbowl... we all know there's "money" in this equation somewhere...

I don't care about money... I care about my grandchildren not having their DNA altered.

Even Zuckerberg (*who I am not a big fan of) says; "We simple do not know what alterni g DNA/mRNA might do!"

[Kay King]

I'm afraid of Covid - I am not ignorant towards it. But, it was created in a "petri dish" - in a lab... WHY???

That may be true but is still at this time conjecture - hasn't been proven that I'm aware of. I know it's claimed - but it's also denied. In the end, doesn't matter where it came from - it is a serious pandemic.

I agree about the survival rate....I've had it - at this point most of the people I know have had covid....only one death of someone I knew decades ago who lives in another state.

BUT - we are pretty healthy. There is not an obese person in my family - we don't have underlying health problems that many people suffer from - we're lucky our ancestors passed on some tough genes.

I agree with you also that a financial motive for how deaths are listed may not be something to dismiss. As I understand it - and I did look into it months ago - Medicare/Medicaid pay out a higher amount for covid deaths. The purpose is to help pay the high cost of hospital treatment for those patients...and I don't believe doctors would lie - but hospital administrators watch the bottom line and may make the final decision...don't know. I don't believe it's a huge issue if it's an issue at all.

I think you should make your decision and stick with it. As for your grandchildren - that should be up to their parents to make the decision.


To be quoting Zuckerberg is a big leap - he is not an expert nor a doctor not someone I'd listen to about anything to do with MY life.

He's wrong, too - as there are scientists who DO know what altering DNA can or will do - and there have been no claims that I've seen saying this vaccine alters your DNA. The opposite is true....

An mRNA vaccine — the first COVID-19 vaccine to be granted emergency use authorization (EUA) by the FDA — cannot change your DNA.

(Harvard.edu study)

Al - not arguing with what you believe. As I said before - we each make up our own mind. However, fears/rumors not based on any available facts or science are often spread as fact by those who read them. There is enough to be fearful of without taking on conspiracies.

[Claude Whitacre]

This morning Fouci said that the first study done on this shows that once you get vaccinated, you don't catch or spread the virus. But he also said that this needs corroborating studies to make it definitive.

So that's good news at least.

Originally Posted by art72

I don't care about money... I care about my grandchildren not having their DNA altered.

Even Zuckerberg (*who I am not a big fan of) says; "We simple do not know what alterni g DNA/mRNA might do!"

The vaccine does not alter your DNA. Vaccines do not cause Autism. Autism is a genetic disorder from birth.

[art72]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

This morning Fouci said that the first study done on this shows that once you get vaccinated, you don't catch or spread the virus. But he also said that this needs corroborating studies to make it definitive.

So that's good news at least.




The vaccine does not alter your DNA. Vaccines do not cause Autism. Autism is a genetic disorder from birth.

Advancements in science, biology, technology are clearly moving at break-neck speeds...

I sincerely believe science and God will one day converge.

However, there are scientist hell-bent on controlling nature, weather, and quite possibly some who believe they can control "genetics" - not withstanding humanities permission.

Clearly, certain people of influence are actively pursuing "eugenics" - as others have sought to define; ancient bloodlines.

As Kay King stated above; I too feel blessed with decent genes, I remain skinny & healthy - I haven't been sick since all this began... So as far as I know; I haven't contracted the virus to date.

I am 110% for humanity's survival - even if in the next 3 - 6 months my greater concerns were in vain, and the vaccine is proven safe.

Thereto, rumors of this morphing into variants beckons the question; "if this virus does mutate into another variant" are we looking at endless vaccines and more reliance on big pharma?

Clearly, there are economical, societal, and even Constitutional battle lines being drawn as this pandemic is just one of many concerns that all appear to be converging upon "We the People" becoming more and more dependent upon others, government, and people of power and influence; "telling us what is good for us!"

As an independent, free-thinking US citizen - that doesn't bode well with my spirit/conscience... as I cannot separate this pandemic from threats it is introducing beyond the virus/vaccine.

Admittedly, I am likely over-thinking and need to decompress, process, and learn to conform.

I've never been to good at taking things for face value - being I wasn't the one who established those costs!

[highhopes]

Do you think things have got worse or is their more clarity in broadcasting sensitive news? E.G. Are they telling us the complete truth about all this Pandemic?

I recall in the USA in the 1970`s a very big stir was caused by the infiltration of CIA agents in the media.
operation mockingbird
https://www.bitchute.com/video/Z2VKALg8AdD7/


Could it be possible that there is a control on the news we read and see / hear?

In his book " "The money Mafia" Ex Defence minister for Canada Paul Hellyer gives details of the powerful money elite, the Cabal as he calls them and how they have a tight control of what matters???

[Kay King]

A virus does mutate - that's expected. It's why our annual seasonal flu shots are different formulas each year to combat the mutations and new viral strains.


As for reliance on 'big pharma' - I know that's a popular topic but in my view we are damned lucky we had big pharma this past year.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

A virus does mutate - that's expected. It's why our annual seasonal flu shots are different formulas each year to combat the mutations and new viral strains.


As for reliance on 'big pharma' - I know that's a popular topic but in my view we are damned lucky we had big pharma this past year.:cool:

Thank you.

Large companies are still made up of people, individuals. "Big Pharma" isn't some massive evil empire bent on destroying the world. If you know of anyone that works for a drug company...are they evil? Chances are they are not.

Anyway, nobody cheers for Goliath.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Thank you.

Large companies are still made up of people, individuals. "Big Pharma" isn't some massive evil empire bent on destroying the world. If you know of anyone that works for a drug company...are they evil? Chances are they are not.

Anyway, nobody cheers for Goliath.

Your right, Big Pharma is a selection of large companies usually dedicated to ripping off the world with its over inflated prices for various concoctions that after the research and testing is done, cost pennies to make

But in this case, it's useful having them around for all their research facilities and they are going to offer it for free or at least heavily discounted or subsidized by the government. Finally, they are giving something back for free after all the money we pay to them.

I expect also, they think it's good business sense to do this as they see their customer base shrinking.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by lanfear63

that after the research and testing is done, cost pennies to make

That is true. And if the research and testing were free to them, it make a huge difference. And all the advertising and marketing costs? They have to be figured in as well.

I was selling a vacuum cleaner and the guy asked "How much does it cost to make one of these?" I think I was selling it for $500 or so.

I said "Well, with the cost of design, testing, adjustments, making the molds, setting up the assembly line, and paying the workers, my guess is that the first one cost a couple of million dollars to make. After that, the costs go down considerably".

Did you know that the average cost of building an automobile is between 10% and 15% of the cost to the dealer? Is that a rip off? What if you add the marketing cost to sell the car? Maybe another 40-50% of the cost to the dealer?

A pill may cost a few cents to make (or less). But it may have cost many millions of dollars to make that first pill. And marketing and advertising takes more than half the cost of the pill at the pharmacy.

At the retail level is where some chicanery takes place. A bottle of one drug may cost $30 at one pharmacy, and $200 at another pharmacy. the exact same drug. the same brand. the same cost to the pharmacy.

And a pill that costs a hospital 25 cents may cost the patient $65. And what about the huge number of patients that never pay the bills?

So...the idea of "Who is ripping off whom...and at what level?" gets murky.

[Kay King]

Nobody cheers for Goliath...but when forced to take sides they usually choose to stand behind the 'big guy'. That is not a positive comment on human behavior....

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

That is true. And if the research and testing were free to them, it make a huge difference. And all the advertising and marketing costs? They have to be figured in as well.

I was selling a vacuum cleaner and the guy asked "How much does it cost to make one of these?" I think I was selling it for $500 or so.

I said "Well, with the cost of design, testing, adjustments, making the molds, setting up the assembly line, and paying the workers, my guess is that the first one cost a couple of million dollars to make. After that, the costs go down considerably".

Did you know that the average cost of building an automobile is between 10% and 15% of the cost to the dealer? Is that a rip off? What if you add the marketing cost to sell the car? Maybe another 40-50% of the cost to the dealer?

A pill may cost a few cents to make (or less). But it may have cost many millions of dollars to make that first pill. And marketing and advertising takes more than half the cost of the pill at the pharmacy.

At the retail level is where some chicanery takes place. A bottle of one drug may cost $30 at one pharmacy, and $200 at another pharmacy. the exact same drug. the same brand. the same cost to the pharmacy.

And a pill that costs a hospital 25 cents may cost the patient $65. And what about the huge number of patients that never pay the bills?

So...the idea of "Who is ripping off whom...and at what level?" gets murky.

It all comes down to how long the drug is out there in the marketplace and the price etc.. In European countries and Australia and Canada, Cuba etc, the cost of drugs to the public is usually capped to a certain amount. For example you pay 10 bucks for a months prescription but can also pay 10 bucks for a nebulizer.

So big Pharma makes more in some countries than others but it still makes a profit probably several times over what it costs to make once developed. In socialized medicine countries, aside from making the medical profession aware of a product, marketing and advertising would be quite low compared to the US. No tv or radio ads, no magazines or online marketing, that would only really be for the American market.

You might also consider that these big companies already have their R&D facilities set up and just switch out one to dedicate to a new drug for development. That can run side by side with multipule others at the same time. All the expenses in development advertising and wages are factored in and paid for by the sales of multipule other drugs being sold.

Then we have the fact that big pharma are cash rich and have money left over for lobbying and lawsuits. They can't be hurting for huge profits.

Would be interesting to see how well they would do if all countries switched to socialized medicine and prescriptions capped or being subsidized by the government due to the pot of tax cash the public pays. It's still like any insurance, not everybody is ill and using the service at the same time. I'm sure the Pharm companies would still make enough to want to remain in business.

Finally, they have an ongoing captive audience. How long does a patent last on a drug before generics can be made, about 7 years? Even then, the companies can make a slight alteration to a formula and re-patent. I read about a popular cholesterol reducing drug that customers reported causing upset stomachs. They added a bit of bicarbonate of soda to each pill and re-patented it.

[Princess Balestra]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Nobody cheers for Goliath...but when forced to take sides they usually choose to stand behind the 'big guy'. That is not a positive comment on human behavior....

Let's naht forget also a similarly momentous conflict takin' place that same day.

Big Booby Betty seemed the hands down winnah when she took on Strawbs Sooz in a rassle match to figure who could sleep with Goliath when he trashed the geeky no-hoper.

Prahblem was ... no bras allowed.

So Betty tripped over husself evry 5 seconds like a tightrope walkah tryin' to stay upright while killah whales clashed in a tsunami.

Like David, Strawbs Sooz crept in sneaky an' won out big.

Hey, but you're right on how the desire to be affirmed, confirmed & in the majority could feachure as a prelood to stuff folks could later regret.

Mebbe is is time for a noo movement.

Benevolent Iconoclasts Against Malefic Swingy Dingy.

[Kay King]

Prahblem was ... no bras allowed.

And all those 'supporting' her - rushed to change their bets because they KNEW what was coming....


EDIT: I think we get too caught up perhaps in what Fauci has to say...there are many other true experts that don't agree with the current view of 'new strains mean new wave'....


From Johns Hopkins:

Dr. Mark Makary, writing recently in the Wall Street Journal, concludes that the welcome collapse in virus cases, which began in January, cannot be attributed solely to the end of holiday festivities or the start-up of vaccines. He says it also suggests that the medical community is vastly underestimating the number of people in the country who have contracted the virus, are asymptomatic, and who have developed immunities.



Makary thinks, assessing the data, that "The country is racing toward an extremely low level of infection." He concludes that the U.S. is nearing "herd immunity" and that "COVID will be mostly gone by April, allowing Americans to resume normal life."

He is not the only public health expert saying the worst is over - we need to restart the economy, open the schools,etc. Fauci is still chatting about new strains and potential waves, etc while quite a few public health experts are saying 'time to open up'. The media focuses on Fauci because they prefer the 'dark day's scenario or the 'another year' conjecture?


I wonder if the US will 'open up' officially or if people will start opening on their own as the numbers decline. Will be interesting to see if there is a recognized 'end point' to the pandemic.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

He is not the only public health expert saying the worst is over -

As has been brought up before, nobody knows how this will pan out. Even projections are only based on what has happened before.

Anyone who says this is over, or is going to get worse....is guessing.

[Kay King]

Claude - I fully agree - it's just nice once in a while to see a qualified public health exert NOT spout doom and gloom for a change.


What I've been seeing on the news are replays over and over warning 'we might have another surge' - or 'darkest days coming' - or 'new strains may cause a wave'. Clearly there is a rapid decline in new cases and in deaths...at what point do we start setting goals of WHEN business and schools will be fully open?



We have to acknowledge it 'could get worse' - but also realize it has been getting better and that might continue.

[Kay King]

Announced today:


Texas is open for business - completely..100% Schools, business, restaurants, etc - open with no restrictions. Full capacity and no mask mandate.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Announced today:


Texas is open for business - completely..100% Schools, business, restaurants, etc - open with no restrictions. Full capacity and no mask mandate.

That may sound like more of a change than it is.

People that are not wearing masks, still won't wear masks. And the people who wear masks because they see the value, may continue to wear them.

I know that if OHIO opened up completely, I'd still wear a mask and not eat in restaurants or go to movies...until the number of cases is way down.

Hospitalizations and deaths are way down...but still at about the same level as the first two peaks.

[Kay King]

Masks won't be gone - but the MANDATE to wear them will.

It's a big change 100% open businesses as of next Wednesday - not 10% or 25% of capacity - not limited to outdoor dining ...businesses can OPEN and do business. Schools are to be OPEN with kids in class.

It has to happen and not surprising TX is taking the lead...I expect they've watched Florida and realize less restrictions worked there.

I read reports yesterday of studies showing how badly children have been hurt. Death rate of young children in their homes has gone up - family disutes and domestic violence are up - suicide among children has increased. Several studies concluded the closing of schools has done more damage to students than the covid-19 virus has. It made sense in the worst or beginning part of the pandemic - makes no sense now.

I expect a few states will follow and a few will stay closed as long as possible.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Masks won't be gone - but the MANDATE to wear them will.

It's a big change 100% open businesses as of next Wednesday - not 10% or 25% of capacity - not limited to outdoor dining ...businesses can OPEN and do business. Schools are to be OPEN with kids in class.

It has to happen and not surprising TX is taking the lead...I expect they've watched Florida and realize less restrictions worked there.

I read reports yesterday of studies showing how badly children have been hurt. Death rate of young children in their homes has gone up - family disutes and domestic violence are up - suicide among children has increased. Several studies concluded the closing of schools has done more damage to students than the covid-19 virus has. It made sense in the worst or beginning part of the pandemic - makes no sense now.

I expect a few states will follow and a few will stay closed as long as possible.

Thats a joke. Right?

[Kay King]

Not at all - the comparison of Florida where lockdowns were limited - to states where lockdowns shut down the states....the results were pretty much the same.

We have a year of data now - we have multiple studies, for example, showing HARM to children kept out of school. We have studies showing those children attending in person school had no more cases of covid than those kept at home.

We have states refusing to allow businesses to re-open in spite of a drastic reduction in new cases and deaths. It the citizens in those states agree with that, so be it. In other states, people WANT the state re-opened....and some elected officials are listening.

There is no ONE way to look at the pandemic - but there are studies that we can learn from...or not. Maybe those states that have been most efficient in vaccinating their citizens are ready to re-open...

[discrat]

Not following this Thread so sorry if it's been mentioned...but Gov. Abbot here in Texas has opened EVERYTHING up ! 100%. No mask mandate, no nothing

This is jumping the gun waaaaaay to soon, imho. Let's at least give people the chance to be vaccinated

[Kay King]

What he pointed out was no mask MANDATE but also recommended people wear masks and I expect many will. OPENING is not mandated - anyone who feels at risk can keep their business closed but schools WILL re-open and that's important.

What do you think the numbers/facts should be before states begin to re-open? Do you have a number in mind? Do states have numbers serving as goals to OPEN - they had number they based closings on. I've wonder that but have not heard anyone saying where we should be to begin opening going forward. Interested to see what someone IN Texas thinks should happen.

Other states will also begin to reopen quickly is my guess. Vaccinations are ongoing - cases and deaths declining. In some areas there is a limit to how long the public will tolerate the closures. It's been one year - we know who is most at risk - we have vaccines being administered in an increasing numbers....maybe it's time.

[socialentry]

Originally Posted by Kay King

What do you think the numbers/facts should be before states begin to re-open? Do you have a number in mind?

Zero .

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Kay King

What do you think the numbers/facts should be before states begin to re-open? Do you have a number in mind? Do states have numbers serving as goals to OPEN - they had number they based closings on. I've wonder that but have not heard anyone saying where we should be to begin opening going forward. Interested to see what someone IN Texas thinks should happen.

.

the deep freeze a few weeks ago is the reason texas is opening now ..people who didn't lose power had their electric bills go up 100 times normal for those few days .. many pooerer people ran out of food ...and their are shortages in part of the state .. and i don't think their is any relief coming from the fedral government ..

before the pandemic we where efficient and very fragile in keeping everything running .. natural disasters starting with the pandemic .. are hitting the most fragile parts of our system ..and it looks like even with Vaccines .. the pandemic still has some fragile systems left to pulverize

[Princess Balestra]

Worst case scenario?

COVID JAB SINGLES ROMANCE BOOM

Doc: Are you here to be jabbed?

Moi: Uhm ... I ain't mixed with no hot guys this close in an age. Prolly you should rein in your language before I POUNCE or sumthin'.

Doc (adjustin' mask): Sorry ... did you just call me hot?

Moi: Aw, hey, yeah, sorry — it was a tip of the schlong. SLIP of the TONGUE. Yeah, because that is sum protective soot you got gowin' on there ... ovah your regulah clothes ... which I presoom involve trousahs.

Doc: Hey lady, I need to ask in all seriousness whether you want this jab or not because—

Moi (bendin' ovah): Hey, sure, c'mon — whack it in my fleshiest areah without delay! Who needs arms in no global emergency!

Doc: Sorry, lady that's not how this works.

(In the deep and meaningful chasm between inconsequence and sheer romance potential, our eyes finally meet over the diminished horizons of our myootyool maskscape.)

Doc: Oh my!

Moi: Uhm, yeah — forget the weirdly suggestive origami in the plasticwear down below! Those are sum peepers, poppet!

Doc: And ... and your eyebrows! I sense the perfect symmetry of a goddess, if only you would refrain from quirkily animating them at random so.

Moi: Am I dowin' that eyebrow thing again? Must mean I'm feelin' horny.

Doc: 9 months!

Moi: Longer!

Doc: Where's the closet?

Moi: Ain't that my line? I got no cloo where I am othah than Potential Romance Nirvana.

Doc: Then to hell with the closet! Ravage me where I stand!

(It's at this point when the octogenarian ex belly dancah standin' behind me in the queue takes ovah bcs she 8 times the size of Moi — an' way more desprit — so I will leave you to imagine the shrillest of mobbed medic squeals as I am jabbed routinely by the sensible NOYSE in GLASSES.)

Huh, yeah, but most likely I will get a zit-ravaged dork whose jab accuracy I gotta watch for less'n they accidentally pop areahs of their own face.

Hey, but ain't it cool to be splittin' hairs ovah shades of slooshin steada postyulatin' ovah existence of problems?

[DWolfe]

Possible side effect to look for if you got the Moderna Vaccine. Curious if people with sensitive skin or more prone to rashes ?

https://nypost.com/2021/03/04/side-e...-rash-doctors/

[Claude Whitacre]

Well folks;

As of today, we are still at 1,775 deaths per day (7 day running average). Certainly a huge drop from our previous high. But now about tied for the #1 cause of death in the US.

Still in hospitals? 41,401. Again a huge drop from our last surge, but about average for the last 12 months.

59,620 daily cases (7 day running average). Again, a huge drop...but still about average for the year.

The vaccines are starting to come fast now.

Cheryl and I are going in Tuesday for ours. Most of our relatives that are old like me...have at least the first shot.

A customer that we really like came in a week ago, and told us she wasn't getting the vaccine. She said that she had heard that so many people died from the vaccine.

I said "No. Nobody in the US has died from the vaccine in trials or getting the vaccine after approval."

She said "What about the risks?'

I said "Same as a flu shot. Maybe soreness from the shot. Maybe you'll feel warm for a day. Maybe an allergic reaction. But if you have no allergies, you'll probably be OK".

She was worried about there not being enough testing. I said "10% of the country (at the time) has had the vaccine. That's over 30 million people. No deaths from the vaccine"

She shook her head.... "I'll pass".

It's too bad. She owns a restaurant and cleaning company. She's about 70. A free vaccine could certainly save her several days off work, at the very least.

Added later; I was telling this story to my brother-in-law and he told me that two people actually died from allergic reactions to the vaccine. I had heard differently. So I may have given our customer faulty information.

[Mark Singletary]

It's a nice touchy feely thought that they are helping us out, sacrificing for the greater good or whatever.

But in fact, they are making billions. https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/he...covid-vaccines

And those government subsidies are paid with what? Taxpayer dollars which come from who? Us.

I'm not complaining, I'm a capitalist. I'm glad they have something that seems to be working.

But they aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

Mark

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Your right, Big Pharma is a selection of large companies usually dedicated to ripping off the world with its over inflated prices for various concoctions that after the research and testing is done, cost pennies to make

But in this case, it's useful having them around for all their research facilities and they are going to offer it for free or at least heavily discounted or subsidized by the government. Finally, they are giving something back for free after all the money we pay to them.

I expect also, they think it's good business sense to do this as they see their customer base shrinking.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

It's a nice touchy feely thought that they are helping us out, sacrificing for the greater good or whatever.

But in fact, they are making billions. https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/he...covid-vaccines

And those government subsidies are paid with what? Taxpayer dollars which come from who? Us.

I'm not complaining, I'm a capitalist. I'm glad they have something that seems to be working.

But they aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

Mark

Mark;

This isn't really directed at you, but your post triggered the thought.

Every business is in business to make a profit. That is their sole purpose. Not to provide jobs, not to solve problems...but to make a profit. The more profit, the better the business.

It's interesting to me that I hear things like "They aren't doing it out of the goodness of their heart"...as though this somehow makes them different from every other business.

Individual scientists, researchers, etc...that work for these companies may be doing their job partly to help others. I suspect that there are doctors and nurses with that mindset.

But these are employees. The job of the CEO is to maximize profit.

The good news is, the best way to maximize profit is by producing the best product, and doing it the fastest, with the best research, testing, and results. This is the best strategy for long term growth.

Anyway, it just strikes me as interesting hen companies are "accused" of being in it for the money.

On the other hand, no matter what, the representative of the company cannot...under any circumstances, just say "We are in it to maximize our profits and growth"

They have to talk about the company vision, the service to the community, and the jobs created....which is just the result of seeking greater profits.

Humans.

[Mark Singletary]

I agree 100%.

My remarks were in response to the post above saying

But in this case, it's useful having them around for all their research facilities and they are going to offer it for free or at least heavily discounted or subsidized by the government. Finally, they are giving something back for free after all the money we pay to them.

I expect businesses to be in it for the $ even those that really do care about their fellow man or really want to help poor children or whatever.

I'm in a "helping" profession and absolutely the $ matters. I wish we could do it for free, but we can't.

But saying they are "finally giving back" didn't sit right with me. They are in it for the profit and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. They apparently have a good product and there is no reason to not help the world while making a buck too.

Mark

Edit: I don't have a problem with big pharma. They are keeping me alive and for that I'm grateful.

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Mark;

This isn't really directed at you, but your post triggered the thought.

Every business is in business to make a profit. That is their sole purpose. Not to provide jobs, not to solve problems...but to make a profit. The more profit, the better the business.

It's interesting to me that I hear things like "They aren't doing it out of the goodness of their heart"...as though this somehow makes them different from every other business.

Individual scientists, researchers, etc...that work for these companies may be doing their job partly to help others. I suspect that there are doctors and nurses with that mindset.

But these are employees. The job of the CEO is to maximize profit.

The good news is, the best way to maximize profit is by producing the best product, and doing it the fastest, with the best research, testing, and results. This is the best strategy for long term growth.

Anyway, it just strikes me as interesting hen companies are "accused" of being in it for the money.

On the other hand, no matter what, the representative of the company cannot...under any circumstances, just say "We are in it to maximize our profits and growth"

They have to talk about the company vision, the service to the community, and the jobs created....which is just the result of seeking greater profits.

Humans.

[Kay King]

I've checked in to sites tyring to schedule covid shots with no luck - while the county keeps sending me 'inviations' to drive 30 miutes to sit in my car for hours waiting...that's a no for me.


Tried Kroger again yesterday and they had vaccine -and appts.

Was able to schedule both vaccinations - picking times - and getting them 10 minutes from my house. I saw that location yesterday and it wasn't very crowded - only about 4-5 people waiting. That's what I was looking for...