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Unread 11th Mar 2021, 11:16 AM   #2401
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Re: Coronavirus? Not worthy of a mention here???
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..people who didn't lose power had their electric bills go up 100 times normal for those few days

What the media is not covering is the fact that it was an error caused by ONE administration person who set up a program incorrectly. Yes, the people were billed wrongly - for those who have auto-payments, it could be very painful...but it was a mistake not a true 'bill'.




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I got my first (moderna) shot yesterday - I was full of it - shot didn't hurt - didn't have to wait in line - people there were great. Turned over in my sleep last night and the pain woke me up. My arm is sore from the shoulder to the elbow. Oh well...I knew that was a common side effect but silly me thought it wouldn't affect me...wrong. Finally gave up and took some Aleve a few minutes ago.


Moderna is 28 days between shots - so I can look forward to it again.



I read an article (true? who knows) online today where a California father is claiming his '39 yr old daughter with no existing health problems" - died of a reaction to the vaccine...four days after getting the shot. Took quite a few comments before someone said "why is a 39 yr old healthy person being vaccinated at this time?"

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Unread 11th Mar 2021, 11:42 AM   #2402
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

I got my first (moderna) shot yesterday - I was full of it - shot didn't hurt - didn't have to wait in line - people there were great. Turned over in my sleep last night and the pain woke me up. My arm is sore from the shoulder to the elbow. Oh well...I knew that was a common side effect but silly me thought it wouldn't affect me...wrong. Finally gave up and took some Aleve a few minutes ago.
Cheryl and I had the same reaction. Soreness in the shoulder for a day or so. Same as with the flu shots we get every year. Cheryl was sore in her shoulder and bicep.

The guy that gave us the vaccine told us it would probably hurt for a couple of days.

The guy that wrote that his 39 year old daughter died from the vaccine? I read about that. I think it really happened. but there may not be a link to the vaccine. The story said that her liver simply stopped functioning, and that was the cause of death.

But was that caused by the vaccine? No way to know until after a thorough autopsy.

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Unread 11th Mar 2021, 02:13 PM   #2403
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Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

Cheryl and I had the same reaction. Soreness in the shoulder for a day or so. Same as with the flu shots we get every year. Cheryl was sore in her shoulder and bicep.

The guy that gave us the vaccine told us it would probably hurt for a couple of days.

The guy that wrote that his 39 year old daughter died from the vaccine? I read about that. I think it really happened. but there may not be a link to the vaccine. The story said that her liver simply stopped functioning, and that was the cause of death.

But was that caused by the vaccine? No way to know until after a thorough autopsy.
All pharma medication, including possibly vaccines can have side effects. This is what is played out on tv ad's time and time again each time they list them when showing the pretty scene's of people liberated from medical conditions. Statistically, 100,000 people die of these side effects each year.

You have to balance out the risks, verses the benefits and not take them if you have any pre-existing conditions or reactions listed.

I would not be surprised if the vaccine, marched out in record time, will be responsible for killing a few people. You just have to weigh the good with the bad. Statistically, you will still be better off taking it, unless it suddenly is found to be killing a load of people. I am Biden my time a little, keeping away from people to monitor it for a while longer and waiting for the Johnson & Johnson one to ramp up in production, only one shot.

Not a bad idea to think about waiting and seeing if violent reactions come into play.

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Unread 11th Mar 2021, 06:12 PM   #2404
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Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post


Not a bad idea to think about waiting and seeing if violent reactions come into play.
This is what I think.

The vaccines are all one thing, genetic remnants of the virus that will trigger your immune system, without giving you the virus. It is impossible to get the virus from the shot. There are no other active ingredients in the shot.

It's like a flu shot that way.

There are a very few people that react in a way, to the shot, that makes their heart beat faster, and that reaction (along with panic) can give them a heart attack.

I cannot imagine how the vaccine could shut down liver function. The formula that carries the vaccine into your body is the same as what carries every vaccine.
Here are the ingredients...

RNA
Lipids (including ((4-hydroxybutyl)azanediyl)bis(hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate), 2 [(polyethylene glycol)-2000]-N,N-ditetradecylacetamide, 1,2-Distearoyl-sn-glycero-3- phosphocholine, and cholesterol)
Potassium chloride
Monobasic potassium phosphate
Sodium chloride
Dibasic sodium phosphate dehydrate
Sucrose

These ingredients are non-toxic and just help us absorb the vaccine. I could see how a couple of the ingredients could cause a burning sensation when they are still localized in the arm.

The reason the drug ads have to list the effects is because these are drugs. They affect the body's functioning. They can raise or lower blood pressure, halt certain bodily functions, hamper some body responses, or speed up some activity of the body's internal chemistry.

So....you could have a reaction to the effects the drug causes. And yes....a few will die.


But the vaccine isn't a drug. It's like drinking a can of caffeine free Pepsi. The chemicals in the drink can cause slight burning in sensitive stomachs.

But heart attacks? Stroke? I cannot see how anything in the shot could cause that.

One thing to remember, if 30 million people get a shot of any kind....Heck, if 30 million people drink a glass of water....a few of them will die within a few days. Because people die every day.

An autopsy (which I'm sure will be done in these few deaths) will probably show the cause.

I wouldn't classify what I just said as an opinion, but it is based on my understanding of the effects of chemicals on the body, which is based on Wikipedia "research".

So there is that.

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Unread 11th Mar 2021, 07:44 PM   #2405
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Re: Coronavirus? Not worthy of a mention here???
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Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

Here are the ingredients...

RNA
Lipids (including ((4-hydroxybutyl)azanediyl)bis(hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate), 2 [(polyethylene glycol)-2000]-N,N-ditetradecylacetamide, 1,2-Distearoyl-sn-glycero-3- phosphocholine, and cholesterol)
Potassium chloride
Monobasic potassium phosphate
Sodium chloride
Dibasic sodium phosphate dehydrate
Sucrose
You forgot the FaucGates Chipinator 2021 model X666.

Ha. Just kidding. Don't hit me.

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Unread 11th Mar 2021, 10:16 PM   #2406
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Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

This is what I think.

The vaccines are all one thing, genetic remnants of the virus that will trigger your immune system, without giving you the virus. It is impossible to get the virus from the shot. There are no other active ingredients in the shot.

It's like a flu shot that way.

There are a very few people that react in a way, to the shot, that makes their hart beat faster, and that reaction (along with panic) can give them a heart attack.

I cannot imagine how the vaccine could shut down liver function. The formula that carries the vaccine into you body is the same as what carries every vaccine.
Here are the ingredients...

RNA
Lipids (including ((4-hydroxybutyl)azanediyl)bis(hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate), 2 [(polyethylene glycol)-2000]-N,N-ditetradecylacetamide, 1,2-Distearoyl-sn-glycero-3- phosphocholine, and cholesterol)
Potassium chloride
Monobasic potassium phosphate
Sodium chloride
Dibasic sodium phosphate dehydrate
Sucrose

These ingredients are non-toxic and just help us absorb the vaccine. I could see how a couple of the ingredients could cause a burning sensation when they are still localized in the arm.

The reason the drug ads have to list the effects is because these are drugs. They affect the body's functioning. They can raise or lower blood pressure, halt certain bodily functions, hamper some body responses, or speed up some activity of the body's internal chemistry.

So....you could have a reaction to the effects the drug causes. And yes....a few will die.


But the vaccine isn't a drug. It's like drinking a can of caffeine free Pepsi. The chemicals in the drink can cause slight burning in sensitive stomachs.

But heart attacks? Stroke? I cannot see how anything in the shot could cause that.

One thing to remember, if 30 million people get a shot of any kind....Heck, if 30 million people drink a glass of water....a few of them will die within a few days. Because people die every day.

An autopsy (which I'm sure will be done in these few deaths) will probably show the cause.

I wouldn't classify what I just said as an opinion, but it is based on my understanding of the effects of chemicals on the body, which is based on Wikipedia "research".

So there is that.
I will bow to the fact that you looked at this where I did no research as I would probably not have understood it all anyway having only a Riffle sized brain

Some questions remain though. There is the fact that their are several Vaccines available and it is said that there are a couple of different ways in their approach to solving the problem and providing immunity. Some need to be kept at low temps when stored etc. Are all the vaccines the same in their ingredients? or did you just look at one, the one you took?

Secondly, it is still true that these vaccines were rolled out quickly where as normally, many years of research and testing would have taken place before being deemed safe for release, so you would not be able to be totally accurate and confident in having tested it on as many people with varying conditions regarding any possible effects when introducing it into their bloodstream as would normally be the case. This was a hurried affair.

All in all, regardless of this, I will take it, (though would prefer the J & J one) because it is worth the risk (so far so good) as opposed to getting Covid. And also, I want, just as much as you do for normality to return as soon as possible.

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Unread 12th Mar 2021, 09:24 AM   #2407
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Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post


Some questions remain though. There is the fact that their are several Vaccines available and it is said that there are a couple of different ways in their approach to solving the problem and providing immunity. Some need to be kept at low temps when stored etc. Are all the vaccines the same in their ingredients? or did you just look at one, the one you took?

I only looked at one vaccine. But the ingredients are only there to keep the RNA material from degrading when it first enters your body. They are not in any way "active ingredients". My guess is that the reason one needs to be frozen, and one needs refrigeration is that the carrier ingredients are slightly different, and the freezing keeps them from degrading. Or maybe the RNA remnants are what degrade in warmer temperatures. I don't know.

Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

Secondly, it is still true that these vaccines were rolled out quickly where as normally, many years of research and testing would have taken place before being deemed safe for release, so you would not be able to be totally accurate and confident in having tested it on as many people with varying conditions regarding any possible effects when introducing it into their bloodstream as would normally be the case. This was a hurried affair.
Yup, it was hurried. But it wasn't the formulation or testing that was hurried, it was the red tape. The FDA is very slow to approve new drugs...there are side effects that could crop up years after administration.

But these vaccines are different. All the ingredients in the vaccine have been approved years ago. It's only the RNA virus remnant in the vaccine that is new. And the RNA remnant is inert


And really, nothing in the vaccine is a drug.

And I'm glad you're taking it.

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Unread 12th Mar 2021, 10:06 AM   #2408
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But it wasn't the formulation or testing that was hurried, it was the red tape.

I worked in a research laboratory for several years...when it came to experiments and studies and new 'concoctions' - the procedure was


hurry up - and wait.....over and over.


There are usually scholarly papers written and multiple times work is stopped to get FDA or other approval to continue....when using govt grants (very common) it's even slower.


Removing the red tape is exactly what allowed these companies to go full steam ahead in development vaccines. Usually when developing drugs, also true the marketing is often getting as much time/attention as the production in the beginning. That did not have to happen here.


I can report that ibuprofen works better than Aleve for the pain after the shot....and day two the pain is beginning to subside.

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Unread 12th Mar 2021, 11:00 AM   #2409
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Hi Guys/Gals

Personally i'm gonna wait and see how these "Vaccines" work out...
Nice to see some of the OG's are still posting regularly.

Cheers

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Unread 13th Mar 2021, 07:55 PM   #2410
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Reopening the schools have been something of a cause celebre for the conspiracy theorists. But do people understand just how bad the North American K12 system is?

In my home province, there is a question on the 12th grade History final that had a drawing of a heavyweight British Boxer and a french featherweight boxer. The question was :"Did the British beat the french in North America?".The dropout rate in my hometown is still around 25%. I can't make this up. We do much better then the rest of OECD (and certainly better then the USA) on standardized tests to boot.

Somewhere along the line, K12's goal became socializing rather then imparting actual skills. Even by this questionable yardstick, it does an awful job. That 19 years old gangbanger that is repeating 10th grade and driving a modified Honda Civic is not a role model. The worst schools have a cop on premise and metal detectors--- would you honestly send your kid there if you had a choice?Or even an average public school? Defending this state of affairs is much like defending Karmen Homolka.

The pandemic was a golden opportunity to try radically new things, and we've failed miserably in this regard. The government will not have this much capital for reform before a long, long time.


All this to say: there's plenty of politicians who deserve blame (and certainly a ban from ever holding public office) for the gross mishandling of the pandemic, but ultimately, the responsibility lies with the People.Without pressure from civil society, nothing happens.Just like we've accepted mediocrity in education, we've accepted mediocrity on the part of our elected officials, and now we're swimming in a sea of COVID-19.
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Unread 15th Mar 2021, 03:58 PM   #2411
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Well, as of last night 69 million Americans have had at least one vaccination shot.

And 13% of the population has had both vaccine shots. About 42 million people.

And out of all those millions of people.....

Only a few have had to go to the hospital with the virus, after the second shot.

So, it obviously works.

And although there have been a few deaths after someone took the vaccines, none have been directly attributed to the vaccine.

Virologists now say, after a few months of real people getting the vaccines, that it looks like getting the vaccine also keeps you from transferring the virus to others. In other words, not only do you not get sick with the vaccine (or at least far less sick), but the virus doesn't stay with you long enough to get transferred to a new host.

The leading virologists now say that if two people (or larger groups) have all had the vaccine, these is no need to wear a mask (if you are just with other vaccine recipients.)

The problem that remains is that there is still a large enough percentage (maybe 30%) of the population that says, in surveys, that they won't get the vaccine. There are now plenty of public service announcements with experts and celebrities trying to get people to get the vaccine.

And that's enough people to keep the virus alive and thriving.

Daily deaths in the US are now at about 1,200 (7 day running average). A huge improvement.

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Unread 15th Mar 2021, 09:05 PM   #2412
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Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

Well, as of last night 69 million Americans have had at least one vaccination shot.

And 13% of the population has had both vaccine shots. About 42 million people.

And out of all those millions of people.....

Only a few have had to go to the hospital with the virus, after the second shot.

So, it obviously works.

And although there have been a few deaths after someone took the vaccines, none have been directly attributed to the vaccine.

Virologists now say, after a few months of real people getting the vaccines, that it looks like getting the vaccine also keeps you from transferring the virus to others. In other words, not only do you not get sick with the vaccine (or at least far less sick), but the virus doesn't stay with you long enough to get transferred to a new host.

The leading virologists now say that if two people (or larger groups) have all had the vaccine, these is no need to wear a mask (if you are just with other vaccine recipients.)

The problem that remains is that there is still a large enough percentage (maybe 30%) of the population that says, in surveys, that they won't get the vaccine. There are now plenty of public service announcements with experts and celebrities trying to get people to get the vaccine.

And that's enough people to keep the virus alive and thriving.

Daily deaths in the US are now at about 1,200 (7 day running average). A huge improvement.
"The problem that remains is that there is still a large enough percentage (maybe 30%) of the population that says, in surveys, that they won't get the vaccine. There are now plenty of public service announcements with experts and celebrities trying to get people to get the vaccine."

That is their choice and best of luck to them. Although spread out, obviously they are going to benefit from the rest of us being immune and not being able to spread it anymore. However, a small percentage are going to get Covid and a small percent of that are going to die from it. At least it is not going to affect the sensible majority of the people who do get vaccine aside from perhaps grieving for the loss of a family member

I was speaking to an Uber driver the other day, he, being in Texas, was not wearing a mask. I wore mine. He said that he most definitely had it in December 2019 and had passed it onto his wife. All the symptoms.

Just before he showed signs of it he drove a Chinese little girl from the airport to to the Chinese Consulate. She was kitted out with a mask and more or less a hazmat type suit. He went to the doc who diagnosed it as a severe upper respiratory infection, not knowing any different. He and his wife went through it and survived. After about a week, he went back to work so he could have still been one of the initial spreaders. Who knows.

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Unread 16th Mar 2021, 05:41 AM   #2413
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Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

At least it is not going to affect the sensible majority of the people who do get vaccine aside from perhaps grieving for the loss of a family member
Sensible majority? When has that EVER been true?

It's a sad time when an untested vaccine is considered the sensible choice over a virus with a 99.97% survival rate. A virus a 117 - 109 - 102 and 101 year old beat. A virus which the CDC told you only killed 6%. A virus I got myself, which was no more unpleasant than any other flu I've gotten.

A virus tens of thousands of experts say is no more deadly than the flu.

But those experts aren't expert enough, eh? The telly ones are right, eh? Throw in that your government has been wrong about EVERYTHING from the start, and you still believe these clowns are telling you the truth.

Go listen to Will Smith or Miley Cyrus tell you how deadly the virus is and how safe the vaccine is. A deadly virus and a safe vaccine. Unbelievable how easy it is to manipulate the sensible majority.

Go read the book 'how to lie with statistics'



[Edited by moderator to remove personal comments]

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Unread 16th Mar 2021, 01:09 PM   #2414
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Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty View Post

Sensible majority? When has that EVER been true?

It's a sad time when an untested vaccine is considered the sensible choice over a virus with a 99.97% survival rate. A virus a 117 - 109 - 102 and 101 year old beat. A virus which the CDC told you only killed 6%. A virus I got myself, which was no more unpleasant than any other flu I've gotten.

A virus tens of thousands of experts say is no more deadly than the flu.

But those experts aren't expert enough, eh? The telly ones are right, eh? Throw in that your government has been wrong about EVERYTHING from the start, and you still believe these clowns are telling you the truth.

Go listen to Will Smith or Miley Cyrus tell you how deadly the virus is and how safe the vaccine is. A deadly virus and a safe vaccine. Unbelievable how easy it is to manipulate the sensible majority.

Go read the book 'how to lie with statistics'



[Edited by moderator to remove personal comments]
Mr Flaherty. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as the statistics are concerned, over 2.5 million people have died from Covid in the last 365 days, well over 500k in the US alone, the number one cause of death. According to you, it is all fake news and all the governments of the world are deceiving us and allowing their economies to go down the toilet. What even remotely logical reason would they have to do that. (mod edit)

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Unread 17th Mar 2021, 09:54 AM   #2415
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Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty View Post


It's a sad time when an untested vaccine.
That's simply not true It took months to test enough people (tens of thousands), study the results, and have the drugs go through the approval process. And so far, in the US, 69,000,000 people have taken the vaccine (at least one shot). And all those effects are known. Saying it's untested is wrong.


Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty View Post

over a virus with a 99.97% survival rate.
No. So far it's been about a 98.3% survival rate. That means the positive test results resulted in an average of about 1.7% of the people dying from Covid, over all age ranges in the US. And the older we get, the more likely we would be in that 1.7%.


Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty View Post

A virus a 117 - 109 - 102 and 101 year old beat.
I believe you, But that's a terrible argument. Of course there are survivors at every age range. Even the extremely elderly survive in most cases. A virus that kills nearly 2% of the people it infects, is very serious. But that also means that the vast majority survive.



Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty View Post

A virus which the CDC told you only killed 6%.
No. That number was made up as something to argue against. It's almost never been above 2.5%, even at the beginning.


Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty View Post

A virus I got myself, which was no more unpleasant than any other flu I've gotten.
Of course you had mild symptoms. Most people do.



Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty View Post

A virus tens of thousands of experts say is no more deadly than the flu.
Well, we have just finished a full year with the virus. In the US, about 30,000 people die each year from the flu.

This last 12 months, in the US, we have had 530,000 die from the Covid virus.

If it's a scam, it's a convincing one.

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Unread 17th Mar 2021, 10:14 AM   #2416
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Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

No. So far it's been about a 98.3% survival rate. That means the positive test results resulted in an average of about 1.7% of the people dying from Covid, over all age ranges in the US. And the older we get, the more likely we would be in that 1.7%.

e.
yes but Duncan and everyone else touting the don't be sheep .. or don't be afraid of a virus that has a 99.97 percent survival rate ..are taking the 2.5 million deaths worldwide and comparing it to the 7.8 billion population ..

so because extreme methods to contain and limit the spread have worked to slow and limit the spread ... and we have 120million plus confirmed cases world wide ..

the US has had the highest deat total ..because we have probably the larges number of those with comorbidities in the world and we are not a small island country with the ability to shut down borders or limit travel within the country

philipines is locking down again because of a new variant ..and that government can prevent people from fying to the country and make if hard to travel within the country
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Unread 17th Mar 2021, 11:11 AM   #2417
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Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

yes but Duncan and everyone else touting the don't be sheep .. or don't be afraid of a virus that has a 99.97 percent survival rate ..are taking the 2.5 million deaths worldwide and comparing it to the 7.8 billion population ..
And that is wrong.

If you never catch a virus, you can't be called a survivor of the virus.

If you are never diagnosed with cancer, you are not a cancer survivor.

I get the psychology, and the positioning...of comparing the worldwide deaths to the population of the planet. But it's a faulty argument.

A survivor means you had it, and it didn't kill you.

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Unread 17th Mar 2021, 03:22 PM   #2418
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Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

A survivor means you had it, and it didn't kill you.
Perfect torso tattoo for alla my exes.

Meantimes, jus' a jenrl kiss-up sesh to evrywan here floatin' along in the slipstream of Gordon's prescience as rijnl OP & the resultin' shades of messience slipstreamsy.

Whatevah your views or circumstances — an' our mere hoomanity delivahs plenty, simply bcs — you gotta figure here you gaht a touchpoint on the planet with most anywan rn.

Geeks stuck the heck up their geek can now mix freely with sports fans squirtin' WIN WIN WIN adrenaline all ovah.

The guy got evrythin' ... but lost his 1 troo gal ... can mebbe commune more zackly now with the the famly lost nuthin', but nevah had much anyways.

We all been touched by this — evrywan here in this 4wroom, an' evrywan connected beyond.

Jus' gotta hope we don't emerge into no bold noo horizon from outta this like no frickin' dopes.

A universal catalyst is a universal catalyst.

What a horrid spark, huh?

Hey, but, yeah — into which noplacescape of uttah inconsequence might yr next steps forward HUV advanced ya?

What was 2020 without what was 2020?

Gotta hope evrywan fyootyuresum finds succor from what we sayin' here 'bout EVIL JOIMS an' AW' MY CHRIST I CAN'T KISS NOWAN ...

same as they would seek for copywritin' smarts ovah on COPYWRITIN' ...

mindsy supahspielo of a broadly inconsequential natyoore ovah on MIND WARRIORS ...

an' raw praise, delivahed moment by moment, on the *heart* PB subforum of their squishyest most aqua dreams

(plus also etc)

Othahwise, for .. uhm .. what do we Warrior?

2025 gonna happen sumtime soon — whethah nowan likes it nor naht.

An' we will get to that place fromma evryplace we now at.

A place sumhow feels like we got more sense of evrywan than how it mighta seemed if'n 2020 nevah delivahed no global SLAYAH.

Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.
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Unread 18th Mar 2021, 06:35 AM   #2419
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Originally Posted by socialentry View Post


The pandemic was a golden opportunity to try radically new things, and we've failed miserably in this regard. The government will not have this much capital for reform before a long, long time.


.
The pandemic has produced a lot of data that will be vital if we plan to build an education system for non rich kids .. of the 21st century ..

i think in the state i live in 1 in five children go to bed hungry ..
and the public education system provide a near free source of day care ..

so we start with having a system that runs 52 weeks a year and insures every student is properly nourished . replace teachers with educational robots that can serve small groups of children and only cost a few thousand dollars per robot or less if you go with a torsow with a monitor in it and head and arms and go with the cute Japanese robot look..

if human teacher feel at risk for their lives breathing the same air as their students ..just build robots to work in environments human feel it is to dangerous to work in

where public education has been the main source of transmission of colds and flues and there is no telling with all the variants of covid popping up all over the world ..how long until one evolves past the vaccine ..
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Unread 30th Mar 2021, 11:12 AM   #2420
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Well...in the US...

In the last two weeks, the new cases per day (7 day average) has gone from 53,000 to 60,000.

This is while we are getting vaccines at record rates. Presently at about 3 million a day.

Which means that the virus is spreading faster than we are getting vaccines out.

Half of the people over 65 have had both vaccines, and 70% have had at least one shot (over 65).

In a few states, the variant (more transmissible) is counting for over 50% of new cases.

The good news is, there isn't a variant that the vaccine won't stop.

So there is that.

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Unread 2nd Apr 2021, 08:59 AM   #2421
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A new problem - wonder how far this will go?

Had a doctor appt this week - just a minor checkup prior to a minor surgical procedure...here's what happened.

1. Registered at the desk - was asked 15-20 questions about 'exposure to covid in past 14 days'...and she took my temp. I answered the questions and then told receptionist "I've had covid - I am positive for antibodies - I have been vaccinated".


2. After a 10 minute wait I was taken into an exam room where the nurse asked the SAME long list of questions...halfway through I said 'you know I've had the virus and vaccines?' - she got a bit huffy and said 'I have to ask these questions' - so I said ok and answered...and she took my temp.

3. Another 10 minute wait and doctor comes in and immediately complains I 'argued' with the nurse about answering questions. Actually I only asked a question but that was an inside look at a defensive medical practice.

4. Doctor asked the same questions AGAIN - and took my temp. I answered and then asked her (politely in a conversational manner) at what point being immune will be enough...and she said....WHEN YOU CAN PROVIDE PROOF OF VACCINATION. I told her no one had asked for proof and she said WE CAN'T ASK FOR IT YET BUT HOPEFULLY SOON THAT WILL BE THE PRACTICE.

Interesting?

I let the doc do her little testing things and give me the permission 'slip' I needed...then told her I thought it was stupid to waste patient's time asking repetitive unnecessary questions....and thought it had more to do with liability than with medicine.

Oh yeah - I will be changing doctors.

But it made me wonder what is being said on legal/medical and other levels that we - the public - aren't hearing. This doctor seemed convinced the 'proof of vaccination' would be required in the future. It made me wonder how long these 'precautions' will continue - how far past the point of herd immunity will have to answer questions about 'the past 14 days'?


Note: To be clear I don't mind answering the questions once for a while longer....my objection is the tendency to ask multiple times - to ignore immunity - I don't like things that don't make sense.

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Unread 2nd Apr 2021, 10:14 AM   #2422
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post



I let the doc do her little testing things and give me the permission 'slip' I needed...then told her I thought it was stupid to waste patient's time asking repetitive unnecessary questions....and thought it had more to do with liability than with medicine.

Oh yeah - I will be changing doctors.

But it made me wonder what is being said on legal/medical and other levels that we - the public - aren't hearing. This doctor seemed convinced the 'proof of vaccination' would be required in the future. It made me wonder how long these 'precautions' will continue - how far past the point of herd immunity will have to answer questions about 'the past 14 days'?


Note: To be clear I don't mind answering the questions once for a while longer....my objection is the tendency to ask multiple times - to ignore immunity - I don't like things that don't make sense.
I am fully convinced a federal vaccine id system will replace the id system we have ..expect it not only to have your vaccine status ..but biometric data facial identification ,finger prints voice id ..and every year when you get a booster ..any changes to hight and weight or other identification markers will be noted ..

and once the system is set up any money the government sends people will require people have this id/account ..ssi, stimulus payment ,tax returns.. Universal basic income ..unemployment
then you probably wont be able to travel on a bus or a plane ..or go to a concert or sporting even.. or go into a federal building ..

The pandemic has permently altered the world we live in ..and the identification systems we have are just not adaquate for the world we now live in..i am not saying this as some conspiracy..i'm saying it is this is probably a far better system than we currently have
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Unread 2nd Apr 2021, 10:41 AM   #2423
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I am fully convinced a federal vaccine id system will replace the id system we have

That would cause all sorts of problems, wouldn't it? If everyone has an id how can you argue tor no-id voting? Things get confusing, don't they?


What I was wondering was how much of the questioning for 'safety measures' I endured was due to liability fears and what was due to an inability to adapt to change as it happens...

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Unread 2nd Apr 2021, 11:06 AM   #2424
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

What I was wondering was how much of the questioning for 'safety measures' I endured was due to liability fears and what was due to an inability to adapt to change as it happens...
Just a guess, but a lot of is probably future liability fears. To many people are quick to file a law suit. With the number of personal injury attorneys out there.

Headline - Did you have a recent Doctors visit and contracted Covid 19 ? XYZ Lawn Firm. has been winning major cases against Doctors. That allowed Covid patients, to spread the virus to non Covid patients. Call out 800 number now for a free consultation.
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Unread 2nd Apr 2021, 11:16 AM   #2425
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

That would cause all sorts of problems, wouldn't it? If everyone has an id how can you argue tor no-id voting? Things get confusing, don't they?


What I was wondering was how much of the questioning for 'safety measures' I endured was due to liability fears and what was due to an inability to adapt to change as it happens...
my brother says the same line about voting .. but when we voted in october we both had to show our ids ..because we where able to vote a week or two early ..

anyway well it is setting up the system to be like ez pass when you drive or that tsa fast check so you can skip the line ..

with that vaccine id/passport system you have it and no one in the doctors office has to ask or fill out any paperwork that says they asked just check the had vaccine id box
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Unread 5th Apr 2021, 12:36 AM   #2426
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I might get vaccinated next year.

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Unread 9th Apr 2021, 03:41 PM   #2427
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Well...

In the US now, more people are getting the variant than the original virus. So that means the national number are creeping up just a bit, despite vaccines being given at record rates

And....We got our second vaccine this past Wednesday..

Both Cheryl and I had a slight reaction to the second vaccine. She got a headache for a day, and I got a fever and chills for the day after the vaccine. This morning we both felt fine.

Both of our shoulders swelled up considerably. And....the shot hurt more than the first one. That may have been because the person giving us the shot just wasn't that good at it, or the fact that it was our second dose. No idea.

But I feel better now. And in a few weeks, we'll start going to restaurants and movies...and visiting relatives. All of them have had vaccines. We're all as old as dirt.

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Unread 9th Apr 2021, 04:48 PM   #2428
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Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

Both of our shoulders swelled up considerably.
Did you suddenly grow a lot of facial hair as well, and rapidly sprouting big claws?

Sorry.... I've just watched Lon Chaney Jr as The Wolf Man, and the imagination runs riot.


Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

And....the shot hurt more than the first one.
I have to ask..... was it a silver bullet?
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Unread 9th Apr 2021, 07:12 PM   #2429
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I get my second shot tomorrow - and was demoralized when I read the CDC now is saying the vaccine protection 'is expected to last 6 months'.


Say what?

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Unread 10th Apr 2021, 11:12 AM   #2430
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Did not take long for the scammers to come up with fake Covid vaccine cards.

From the New York Post

"A black market in fake vaccination record cards is reaching epidemic proportions online.

Fraudsters have been hawking knock-offs of the three-by-four-inch cards on retail sites including eBay, Etsy and Shopify, as well as on the social media sites Facebook and TikTok, the New York Times reported this week.

The Post, meanwhile, has found dozens of online DIY guides for printing fake vaccination cards at home. "

More of the story - https://nypost.com/2021/04/09/fake-c...ampant-online/
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Unread 10th Apr 2021, 11:24 AM   #2431
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If you buy a fake vaccination card - then you contract covid and die of the virus....guess the jokes on you...right?

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Unread 10th Apr 2021, 01:09 PM   #2432
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Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

Well...

In the US now, more people are getting the variant than the original virus. So that means the national number are creeping up just a bit, despite vaccines being given at record rates

And....We got our second vaccine this past Wednesday..

Both Cheryl and I had a slight reaction to the second vaccine. She got a headache for a day, and I got a fever and chills for the day after the vaccine. This morning we both felt fine.

Both of our shoulders swelled up considerably. And....the shot hurt more than the first one. That may have been because the person giving us the shot just wasn't that good at it, or the fact that it was our second dose. No idea.

But I feel better now. And in a few weeks, we'll start going to restaurants and movies...and visiting relatives. All of them have had vaccines. We're all as old as dirt.
So for a day or so, you were known as the Hunchback of Woosterdam?

I used to work with a guy called Mick. His surname in his ancestral past was Lottringham, now changed to Lotherington. One day I saw his Tupperware box full of sandwiches. I said to him" "Mick, is that the lunch-pack of Lottringham?"

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Unread 10th Apr 2021, 03:51 PM   #2433
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

I get my second shot tomorrow - and was demoralized when I read the CDC now is saying the vaccine protection 'is expected to last 6 months'.


Say what?
I think (but don't know) they said that because they can only confirm that it's effective for 6 months.....because the vaccine has only been given for 6 months.. In a year, they should have a better idea how long immunity lasts.

My guess is that, as the virus mutates...when it mutates enough, a new vaccine will be needed. Like the flu vaccine.

My shoulder is still swollen. I think the person who gave me the shot hit a nerve. My left index finger is swollen and I can't move it. Typing (because I'm left handed) is a chore.

First world problems. I'm bitching because my finger hurts. I think whininess and bitchiness expands to fill your life, no matter what gravy life you are living.

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Unread 10th Apr 2021, 09:40 PM   #2434
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Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

I think (but don't know) they said that because they can only confirm that it's effective for 6 months.....because the vaccine has only been given for 6 months.. In a year, they should have a better idea how long immunity lasts.

My guess is that, as the virus mutates...when it mutates enough, a new vaccine will be needed. Like the flu vaccine.

My shoulder is still swollen. I think the person who gave me the shot hit a nerve. My left index finger is swollen and I can't move it. Typing (because I'm left handed) is a chore.

First world problems. I'm bitching because my finger hurts. I think whininess and bitchiness expands to fill your life, no matter what gravy life you are living.
"My shoulder is still swollen. I think the person who gave me the shot hit a nerve. My left index finger is swollen and I can't move it. Typing (because I'm left handed) is a chore."

Oh no, although the difficulty in you typing posts is a blessing, I do hope your not having a bad reaction and it goes down.

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Unread 11th Apr 2021, 10:08 AM   #2435
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Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post


Oh no, although the difficulty in you typing posts is a blessing, I do hope your not having a bad reaction and it goes down.
Shoulder still swollen, but it's a minor thing. My left hand is more nimble now.

I think my only reaction to the vaccine itself was a night and day of fever and some shakes. Most of our relatives had no reaction...or just minor soreness for a day or so.

Again, such a minor inconvenience.

The only reason I mentioned it is....it's all about me.

Me, me, me!

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Unread 11th Apr 2021, 01:03 PM   #2436
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Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


My left hand is more nimble now.

Hmmm......
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Unread 11th Apr 2021, 03:42 PM   #2437
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Claude - my reaction to this second shot has been way over the top. Massive pain in shoulder and arm, in joints, fever, headache....this is 30 hrs after the shot.


I guess if they told people the second shot could be this bad,,,,no one would get the second shot?

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Unread 12th Apr 2021, 09:10 AM   #2438
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

Claude - my reaction to this second shot has been way over the top. Massive pain in shoulder and arm, in joints, fever, headache....this is 30 hrs after the shot.


I guess if they told people the second shot could be this bad,,,,no one would get the second shot?
The lady that gave me the first shot told me that the second shot would be really painful.

My guess is that the people that only get one shot, don't have these issues.

I suspect the second shot triggers a very very mild set of symptoms that mimic the virus itself, because the second dose triggers an immune response that the first shot gave us.

And...after we got the second shot, we were OK for the rest of the day. It was the next day that headaches, joint pain, and fever set in. Most of that went away the next day, but my shoulder is still swollen. All the pain, fever, and headaches are gone now.

I still have my swollen ego and feeling of superiority though, so I'm good to go.

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Unread 12th Apr 2021, 05:59 PM   #2439
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I got the second shot at noon Saturday - pain started 7-8 hrs later. I ate my first meal just now. I think you may be right about the reaction of 2nd shot and I'm warning friends and family to get the second shot when they have a day or two they can spend feeling like crap.


I lost sense of smell/taste and still don't have it back but the pain level has decreased somewhat so hoping tomorrow will be getting over it. My shoulder is still extremely painful but can move lower arm now without triggering a big ouch. To hear Fauci announce that 'even after vaccination you should not eat indoors, etc' made me want to slug him. I really think at this point the guy is just trying to drag his $400k job out as long as possible.

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Unread 13th Apr 2021, 06:59 AM   #2440
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"This gowin' in my arm — or do I gottah bend ovah?"

Plenty First World Priv gowin' on here, tellya.

All I know is, my intrinsic double vision synced sweet with evry kinda GATESIMPLANTCONTROLDEATH conspwasp side effect to ensure I hooked enough to get a second dose.

Yeah — an' next time ima bendin' ovah before I AM ASKED.

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We gotta throw much more life into keepin' evrywan alive.

'tis an exotic existence, this — or'n it tain't.'

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Unread 13th Apr 2021, 07:36 AM   #2441
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

I got the second shot at noon Saturday - pain started 7-8 hrs later. I ate my first meal just now. I think you may be right about the reaction of 2nd shot and I'm warning friends and family to get the second shot when they have a day or two they can spend feeling like crap.


I lost sense of smell/taste and still don't have it back but the pain level has decreased somewhat so hoping tomorrow will be getting over it. My shoulder is still extremely painful but can move lower arm now without triggering a big ouch. To hear Fauci announce that 'even after vaccination you should not eat indoors, etc' made me want to slug him. I really think at this point the guy is just trying to drag his $400k job out as long as possible.
Yup, that makes perfect sense, take a useful statement designed to help and twist it into something you can complain about. Here is that quote from him. Also, what's with the dig about 400k a year? It's a nothing statement designed to be antagonistic. First of all, that amount, for his job, for what he does, is peanuts and if he wasn't a civil servant he would probably be getting paid a lot more.

As far as getting a shot goes, be glad you managed to get one, I set an appointment last month, drove two hrs last week after getting my confirmation that morning, waited in line an hr or so, and was told they ran out, with an adamant "no sir, we can't make another appointment here and now...go home and try again".

My local news station is saying that the intensive care units in our local hospitals are filled up with kids and young adults.

Just so that I know that you know...since the inception of every single vaccine in the world for COVID19, everyone involved in every step of the process has told everyone, (again from the beginning) THAT we won't know if you can still spread the virus and infect others when you get the vaccine. - WHICH - if you remember properly, doesn't even stop you from getting the disease, it just keeps you from getting a severe case and from death.

Sliding the goal post around to fit your feelings does nothing except confuse and possibly hurt those who arent as smart as you are.

Hasan asked: "Eating and drinking indoors in restaurants and bars. Is that okay now?" "No, it's still not okay," answered Fauci, "for the simple reason that the level of infection, the dynamics of infection in the community are still really disturbingly high. Like yesterday there were close to 80,000 new infections and we've been hanging around 60, 70 seventy-five thousand. So if you're not vaccinated, please get vaccinated as soon as vaccine becomes available to you. And if you are vaccinated, please remember that you still have to be careful and not get involved in crowded situations, particularly indoors, where people are not wearing masks. And for the time being until we show definitively that a person who's vaccinated does not get the subclinical infection and can spread to others, you should also continue to wear a mask for the time being."

Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

I get my second shot tomorrow - and was demoralized when I read the CDC now is saying the vaccine protection 'is expected to last 6 months'.


Say what?
Why? He said it works for at least 6 months and probably lasts for longer but we cant say that yet becuase we only have six month of data to study. ie proof. We cant say it will last a year, becuase no one has been vaccinated for a year.

Here is his quote on the subject.

One study showed the Pfizer vaccine lasted for at least six months. "We need to be careful about that six month number," said Dr. Fauci. "The study only went out as far as six months. So we know for sure it's effective for six months, but it's highly likely that it will be effective for a considerably longer period of time. The way to get the answer is to just follow people closely enough to determine when that level of efficacy or protection diminishes." So will we all need booster shots? Or yearly shots, as we do with the flu? "If it turns out that it is a year or a year and a half, we very well may need to get booster shots to keep up the level of protection."


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Unread 13th Apr 2021, 08:25 AM   #2442
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Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

I set an appointment last month, drove two hrs last week after getting my confirmation that morning, waited in line an hr or so, and was told they ran out, with an adamant "no sir, we can't make another appointment here and now...go home and try again"
.
That's a shame you have to wait. Did they start selling in the major drug store chains down there ? CVS, Right Aide, and Walgreens are now doing it. In Newark they actually have openings at one of the big test centers. Think its NJIT. This Summer they will be setting sites up at the boardwalks for vaccinations. At the Jersey Shore.

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Unread 13th Apr 2021, 09:47 AM   #2443
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Originally Posted by DWolfe View Post

That's a shame you have to wait. Did they start selling in the major drug store chains down there ? CVS, Right Aide, and Walgreens are now doing it. In Newark they actually have openings at one of the big test centers. Think its NJIT. This Summer they will be setting sites up at the boardwalks for vaccinations. At the Jersey Shore.
Not yet, at least not in my neck of the woods.
That will sure beat a two-hour drive, I have each of those within walking distance.

My mom drove all the way to Patterson and received the J&J last week. - woot woot -
No side effects, not even a sore arm. (75 yo)


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Unread 13th Apr 2021, 10:45 AM   #2444
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Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

.

My mom drove all the way to Patterson and received the J&J last week. - woot woot -
No side effects, not even a sore arm. (75 yo)
Glad to hear your Mom had no side effects !
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Unread 13th Apr 2021, 01:43 PM   #2445
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Johnson & Johnson Vaccinations Halt Across Country After Rare Clotting Cases Emerge

Injections of Johnson & Johnson’s single-dose coronavirus vaccine came to a sudden halt in much of the country on Tuesday after federal health agencies called for a pause in the vaccine’s use following the emergence of a rare blood clotting disorder in six recipients.

All six were women between the ages of 18 and 48 and all developed the illness within one to three weeks of vaccination. One woman died and a second woman in Nebraska has been hospitalized in critical condition.

Nearly seven million people in the United States have received Johnson & Johnson shots so far, and about nine million more doses have been shipped out to the states, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

“We are recommending a pause in the use of this vaccine out of an abundance of caution,” Dr. Peter Marks, director of the Food and Drug Administration’s Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research, and Dr. Anne Schuchat, principal deputy director of the C.D.C., said in a joint statement. “Right now, these adverse events appear to be extremely rare.”

Dr. Schuchat, the C.D.C. official, said that the risk of dangerous blood clots was “very low” for people who received Johnson & Johnson’s vaccine more than a month ago.

“For people who recently got the vaccine within the last couple of weeks, they should be aware to look for any symptoms. If you receive the vaccine and develop severe headaches, abdominal pain, leg pain or shortness of breath, you should contact your health care provider and seek medical treatment,” she said.


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Unread 21st Apr 2021, 10:07 AM   #2446
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Yesterday a customer asked if I got the vaccine. I said I did.

He told me he wasn't going to get it. he also told me that the reason was...more people have died from the vaccine than from the virus. I asked him to repeat it, because I wasn't sure I heard it right.

My next thought was that he heard this somewhere. Anyway, these people are out there. And if there are enough of them, they will keep this virus alive.

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Unread 21st Apr 2021, 08:48 PM   #2447
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Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

Yesterday a customer asked if I got the vaccine. I said I did.

He told me he wasn't going to get it. he also told me that the reason was...more people have died from the vaccine than from the virus. I asked him to repeat it, because I wasn't sure I heard it right.

My next thought was that he heard this somewhere. Anyway, these people are out there. And if there are enough of them, they will keep this virus alive.
At some point.. every one that is susceptible to getting it will get it, and it will be over. You have to remember that the "Vaccine" doesn't stop you from getting it, it lessons the effects - as much as the "studies" say the vaccine "blocks" Covid, there is the flip side of 5000+ people per week that HAVE BEEN vaccinated, testing positive for covid.

Herd immunity will only be met when 70%+ of people actually GET Covid.

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Unread 22nd Apr 2021, 12:48 PM   #2448
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Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

Herd immunity will only be met when 70%+ of people actually GET Covid.
Actually read it is 85% . https://www.linkedin.com/news/story/...-wall-5414026/ It's a interesting article the supply may pass the demand in the next few weeks.

Been trying to get schedule at Walgreens or CVS by me. Still have to wait scheduled dates and locations are not widely available.
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Unread 22nd Apr 2021, 01:34 PM   #2449
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Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post


Herd immunity will only be met when 70%+ of people actually GET Covid.
When I hear that (I do often), my first thought is that the US isn't a perfectly blended mass of humanity. 70% of the country may be an average. But even now, there are states (and sections of states) that have rapidly increasing cases, and several states where the cases are plummeting.

And then....you have evolution. Variants are already the major source of the virus in the US.

So far, the vaccines are effective. But remember, we have flu shots every year...because the viruses mutate


And also, this is a planetary problem. India is being ravaged right now, as is Brazil.

And cultures and political beliefs have concentrated populations. People who wear masks, tend to be around others that will wear masks. People who eat at restaurants right now (or go to movie theaters) tend to be around others that think like they do.

So when I say that this will keep the virus alive, I mean that the virus will mutate faster than we will get vaccinated or reach a local herd immunity.

My guess is that eventually, maybe this year, we'll get used to the virus, accept losses, and end up getting annual vaccines to the current variant of the virus. Just like we get vaccines for the flu.

But we are used to (as a country) seeing this virus come in waves across the country. But there are also global waves of the virus. And the more people with the virus, the more often it mutates.

And....the vaccine doesn't keep you from getting the virus. But it keeps the virus from growing and concentrating in the host. And that minimizes the time you are infectious.

And the vaccines directly save the lives of the people who get the vaccines. So that's something. For example, it's been two weeks since my wife and I got our second shot.
And it least now, I don't have a daily dread of my wife getting the virus and dying.


Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

f 5000+ people per week that HAVE BEEN vaccinated, testing positive for covid.

I didn't check that figure, but I'll assume it's true. The vaccine keeps those getting the virus from having a severe reaction. And you are right about it going away once everyone gets it......unless the virus mutates. Which it is doing in several different ways.

And once the virus mutates enough, the fact that we already had it won't mean anything. Just like having the flu doesn't keep you from getting it later as the flu virus mutates.

Anyway, I hope everyone stays healthy.

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Unread 22nd Apr 2021, 06:55 PM   #2450
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Been trying to get schedule at Walgreens or CVS by me. Still have to wait scheduled dates and locations are not widely available.

That surprises me as I'm an hour form a big city and easy to get vaccine here now..for everyone.



I THINK the news today was from the UK - about dogs testing positive for covid antibodies....could it be without masks or social distancing, canines may have achieved herd immunity?

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