[Mark Singletary]

Originally Posted by lanfear63

What did you take and what reactions did you experience?

First dose of Moderna. I had been warned to only take Moderna or Pfizer for health reasons by my doctor and only Moderna of the two is available here. I forgot to make sure which one they were giving me so almost as the needle was going in, I jerked away my arm to ensure it was Moderna. Scared the poor lady to death.

Right after the shot felt awful. I can't imagine it was due to the shot but maybe the heat as it was done outside the hospital in the parking lot. Maybe it was anxiety. Not sure. But, after eating some good fried chicken and a nice dessert the feeling went away so now that's my go to remedy. LOL

First day no big issues but a little "off.". The second day my arm got sore but not unbearably so. By the third day, I had no signs or symptoms.

Mark

[max5ty]

Originally Posted by lanfear63

What did you take and what reactions did you experience?

Moderna in February and then second shot in March.

Died twice...saw a white light...

just kidding.

Arm was sore the first shot. Second shot no problem.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

Right after the shot felt awful. I can't imagine it was due to the shot but maybe the heat as it was done outside the hospital in the parking lot.

Moderna here too.

Personally, the first shot? Sore shoulder for a few days. A little swelling.

The second shot? My wife had a swollen shoulder and upper arm for several days. Me? The next day I had a mild fever and some shaking....like the mild flu.

The next day it was over. Just a sore shoulder for a couple more days.

But I have to admit that the vaccine really did make me feel liberated. Now, we can go to movies and dinner without worrying about getting really sick.

I'd sure feel better if everyone was vaccinated, because I don't want to make anyone else sick.

[savidge4]

I dont know if anyone has noticed as of late ( the last few days ) there has been glimpses of a reset of expectations. The announcement that the Pfizer losing effectiveness after 6 months to start... ( that didnt make very many headlines ) They ( Pfizer ) has been asking for the OK for boosters now for more than a few months, and now we kinda know why. ( https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/28/pfiz...ix-months.html ) And the FDA is not going along with it.

I also want people to read the first few lines closely here " The vaccine’s initial studies showed it protected people 100% of the time against hospitalization, but that falls to low 90% and mid-to-high 80% after six months, he said." This is not a reading between the lines kind of thing either... the "Shot" is % effective of keeping people out of the hospital... NOT a % effective from blocking you from getting it. People in the clinical trials have had the shot now for a year plus.. and they seem to be delaying the longer term study data on this stuff ( which isnt a surprise really - pretty normal actually in the science world ) so 80% after 6 months to 70% after 8 months 60 or 50% after a year - is probably in the realm of possible.

So now we have this: ( https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...?ocid=msedgntp ) but to actually come out and actually say this kind of stuff / truth would create panic... why must people with the shot wear a mask?. and there it is... has little to nothing to do with "protecting" the unvaccinated, and a whole lot more to do with "Science" and mutations, and overall safety of the population as a whole ( meaning the world population ).

The number we REALLY need to be looking at is the number of infected. People that have tested positive for Covid is the bench mark to "Herd Immunity" it really is that plain and simple... and at this point we have NO CLUE what percentage of ANY population the world over fits into this category. I personally believe this is the biggest mistake in this whole thing, and that is tracking the data that matters most.

[max5ty]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

But I have to admit that the vaccine really did make me feel liberated. Now, we can go to movies and dinner without worrying about getting really sick.

I'd sure feel better if everyone was vaccinated, because I don't want to make anyone else sick.

I've noticed that every day more and more are starting to get the picture and get vaccinated. I think some were waiting to see if those of us that got the vaccine would survive...or turn into some kind of alien monster.

Will never be 100% because there are and have always been people who won't go to a doctor for any reason because they don't trust doctors.

I saw where the president was talking about giving $100 to everyone that goes and gets the vaccine...

my question is if this is retroactive haha

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Okey

Is there a reason to panic? I don't think so....but if you're over the age of 60, or have serious health problems, I sure as heck wouldn't plan a vacation. plane trip, cruise, or go to any large gatherings.

Because if you're over 65 years old, and get this bug...it may have a 10% chance of killing you. And that's just too high.

But you f you are fully vaccinated and over 65 year u have a minute chance of dying and a greatly reduced chance of being hospitalized . And like 90 percent of those over 65 have had 1 shot and 80 percent are fully vaccinated

Then in the other age groups obesity is the main risk factor and we are way to politically correct or just unwilling to track the vaccination rates based on obesity rates

The non obesity or non fat people can question the need to get vaccinated but for fat or obese people it far easier to get the shots to reduce the COVID risks

There is ample evidence of who is at most risk

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by savidge4

So now we have this: ( https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...?ocid=msedgntp ) but to actually come out and actually say this kind of stuff / truth would create panic...

Part of what the link had...


A study suggests that transmission among vaccinated people could lead to new variants that evade vaccines.

Yup. Yesterday, Fouci said that vaccinated people and unvaccinated people carry about the same viral load in the back of the throat, making everyone able to spread the virus. In the vaccinated, it just doesn't get in the lungs, or hardly at all, before it's stopped.

But everyone could spread the virus before the Delta variant. It just didn't last long in the vaccinated. And one thing this means is that there are now millions of vaccinated people walking around without masks, having no idea they are carrying the virus, spreading it to the unvaccinated minority.


And new viruses evolve both in the unvaccinated and in the vaccinated. It's just that there is now little difference between being vaccinated or not, as far as spreading the virus, or the virus mutating further.


This virus is mutating faster than a common flu, as fast as the common cold virus. So it could become a real problem keeping the variants under control.

It may come down to annual vaccines.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Odahh

But you f you are fully vaccinated and over 65 year u have a minute chance of dying and a greatly reduced chance of being hospitalized . And like 90 percent of those over 65 have had 1 shot and 80 percent are fully vaccinated

Then in the other age groups obesity is the main risk factor and we are way to politically correct or just unwilling to track the vaccination rates based on obesity rates

The non obesity or non fat people can question the need to get vaccinated but for fat or obese people it far easier to get the shots to reduce the COVID risks

There is ample evidence of who is at most risk

If you are fully vaccinated, there are a number of factors that greatly increase your risk of dying.

Being morbidly obese among the unvaccinated is a severe risk. In the vaccinated, the people who are dying are almost all those with cancer, using immunosuppressants, transplant patients, diabetics, and people with severe heart conditions or already using supplemental Oxygen.

But weighing 400 pounds? Eating grease every day? It severely limits your body's ability to fight any disease....of breath when your lungs are infected.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

If you are fully vaccinated,

But weighing 400 pounds? Eating grease every day? It severely limits your body's ability to fight any disease....of breath when your lungs are infected.

Obesity starts with most people around 200 pounds for men I’m not willing to say the number for women.

Morbid obesity is well before 300 pounds for everyone below 7 feet tall

The virus effects the bloods ability to carry oxygen but the people who die do so because of an excessive response from the immune system.

I don’t know what to actually call the shots because a vaccine for hiv/aids would men if I was exposed to the virus I would not get infected nor would I ever be pass it on

While now even the I am fully vaccinated I still can catch Covid and infect others

Does not compute

At the beginning panic caused a world wide run on toilet paper and other sanitation goods

People understand what they need to stock up on this time. So when people start clearing the shelves of liquor stores of hard alcohol that will be the major sign of panic .

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Odahh

I don’t know what to actually call the shots because a vaccine for hiv/aids would men if I was exposed to the virus I would not get infected nor would I ever be pass it on

While now even the I am fully vaccinated I still can catch Covid and infect others

Does not compute

The AIDS virus isn't inhaled. It's um...well......injected internally into the body. And the antibodies in the blood stream stop it before it can multiply enough to be a danger.

Covid is inhaled. So it survives in the nose and back of the throat until it dies. It's on the surface. On the surface of the nasal cavity, throat, and lungs. So it takes longer for the antibodies in the blood to get to it.

That's the difference. An inhaled virus survives longer than an injected virus.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

The AIDS virus isn't inhaled. It's um...well......injected internally into the body. And the antibodies in the blood stream stop it before it can multiply enough to be a danger.

Covid is inhaled. So it survives in the nose and back of the throat until it dies. It's on the surface. On the surface of the nasal cavity, throat, and lungs. So it takes longer for the antibodies in the blood to get to it.

That's the difference. An inhaled virus survives longer than an injected virus.

I’m fully vaccinated but I can still get infected with Covid even if a mild case with this delta variant that has 1000 time the viral load of previous strain

So vaccinated people and unvaccinated people who get infected still spread the virus at the same high viral load

Which means ther is no heard immunity eventually everyone will get it and it’s possible to get it many times

[savidge4]

Originally Posted by Odahh

Which means ther is no heard immunity eventually everyone will get it and it’s possible to get it many times

There is at this point "Herd Immunity" in the population that has actually had Covid. You can either get the shot and eventually get Covid and not get seriously sick, OR you can take your chances and not get vaccinated and get sicker, and possibly hospitalized.

BUT, if you ( at this point ) have had Covid, you cant get it, and you cant pass it on.

"Herd Immunity" is in the number of infected, and has absolutely nothing to do with the shot, aka the "Vaccine".

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by savidge4

There is at this point "Herd Immunity" in the population that has actually had Covid. You can either get the shot and eventually get Covid and not get seriously sick, OR you can take your chances and not get vaccinated and get sicker, and possibly hospitalized.

BUT, if you ( at this point ) have had Covid, you cant get it, and you cant pass it on.

"Herd Immunity" is in the number of infected, and has absolutely nothing to do with the shot, aka the "Vaccine".

Yes of course that’s how immunity shoul work based off all we knew before Covid.

If you had Covid and barely noticed or got a little sick. But nothing serious you should have nothing to worry about from delta or any future variant. Unless you suddenly put on a large amount of weight or have to take medication that suppress your immune system.

If you have non of the risk factors and have been exposed to and developed antibodies for Covid you are fine in all probability

[savidge4]

Originally Posted by Odahh

Yes of course that’s how immunity shoul work based off all we knew before Covid.

If you had Covid and barely noticed or got a little sick. But nothing serious you should have nothing to worry about from delta or any future variant. Unless you suddenly put on a large amount of weight or have to take medication that suppress your immune system.

If you have non of the risk factors and have been exposed to and developed antibodies for Covid you are fine in all probability

Immunity is immunity.. it is working the same after covid as it did before.. what has happened is, there is this use of a term for something that does not meet the definition of said term. The shot, the "Vaccine" whatever you want to call it is an inhibitor. Meaning it will reduce and or mitigate the symptoms of Covid. It in NO WAY stops you from getting it, or passing it.

Keep in mind here I have been saying the same thing on this very thread since last December when they released the testing data. Its in black and white, what it will and will not do. "Immunity" is not anywhere in the testing data. They were and still are only obtaining results based apon the presents of symptoms, and not an actual positive or negative result for Covid. From the very get go, "Immunity" was not the target objective.

There isnt even a "unless you suddenly" at this point "Officially" there are 5 as in one hand to count 5 KNOWN cases ( the world over ) of people contracting Covid twice Since the outbreak began. Once you have had it, you cant get it, and you cant pass it.

There are a couple of "Vaccines" in the works around the world ( none in The States that I can find ) that are in Stage 1 and Stage 2 of testing. These "Vaccines" once taken will create "Immunity".

It is becoming clear now, that the methodology used now with Pfizer, Moderna, and J&J is a losing battle. The threat now is a mutation from the "Vaccinated" subset of population that will create a strain that is immune to the current injection. The question is "and then what?" and the answer i am seeing and reading about is a "Booster" with the current methodology of blocking symptoms and not actual immunity to Covid. Seems like it could be a vicious circle to me.

But with $18 a dose to be had... not sure they really care. 6 Trillion dollars later ( The expense the US Fed Govt has paid for injections ) we are a mutation or 2 away from being right back were we started.

Hindsight being 20/20, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that we are on a path to failure of epic proportions. And yet... there are drugs you can take a pill a day and not get it not pass it. There is a nasal spray, once a day, and you cant get it cant spread it. There is obviously some break through in an actual "Vaccine" but that does not seem to be the goal line for most of the Pharma companies of the world.

[Mark Singletary]

Originally Posted by savidge4

Immunity is immunity.

<<snip>>

Once you have had it, you cant get it, and you cant pass it.

If that is true, I wonder why no one who's had it is getting "credit" for their immunity but are still required to get the shots?

I've seen cases where people have had a confirmed case of COVID but were still required by their employer to get the jab. A lot of criticism is hurled at famous people like politicians who have had it and now say they aren't getting the shot.

Interesting.

Mark

[savidge4]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

If that is true, I wonder why no one who's had it is getting "credit" for their immunity but are still required to get the shots?

I've seen cases where people have had a confirmed case of COVID but were still required by their employer to get the jab. A lot of criticism is hurled at famous people like politicians who have had it and now say they aren't getting the shot.

Interesting.

Mark

I hear on certain things like "Vaccination Card" or proof having had Covid, as a requirement. Granted its probably only started in the last few weeks. I believe some of the colleges are changing the stipulation for attendance to include previous Covid infection.

There are some fringe studies out there that are suggesting having been previously infected and then getting the shot increases the likely hood of "vaccine" related complications. And the reason these are "Fringe" is because the primary testing data sets do not include confirmation of a positive or negative result - they are only looking at "Symptoms".

Herd immunity is plain and simple - percentage of population that has been infected. The number that is seen as a negative, "Total Cases" is the only benchmark we have to actually ( not really ) knowing where we stand with herd immunity. Someone like myself that had Covid and didnt know it, and only found out because I took the Antibody test prior to getting the shot - is NOT included in the "Total Cases" number.

Here is the way I see it... here is the way I am dealing with this within my own organization... Get the Antibody test FIRST... see if the shot is needed, and from there you are then making a more clear choice of getting or not getting the shot. The Antibody test is my organizations only requirement for employment.

The most important piece of data, "Total Cases" is the by far least accurate of the bunch. WE KNOW that local, state, and federal agencies have manipulated the number. So the number is probably 2x or 3x the number that is posted, based on the fact that people just laid up for 14 days without getting tested or like myself had no idea I had it, and the manipulation of the numbers.

"Total Cases" = percentage of population towards the 70%+ goal of "Herd Immunity"

And now with the shot... the "Total Cases" figure is going to be even further skewed because there are little to no symptoms - and people are less likely to get a test done right?

I think historically the manor in which this whole thing was handled world wide will go down in human history as one of the worst medical debacles in history. IF there is a variant that breaks thru the "Vaccine" it will be ugly.

We see the numbers go up, and it is perceived as a bad thing and I dont get it actually... Its a good thing people are getting Covid, and 99.whatever % are making it through. THIS is the one and only path to herd immunity - its really that simple.

Until there is an actual "Vaccine" ( in the works as I stated above ) we are looking at this self feeding cycle of infection. If one were a conspiracy theorist... one would wonder if that is the actual goal, because all of the actions that would "Stop" this, have all but been avoided. The whole thing is just a clusterflub.

[Kay King]

The military is going to require vaccinations, more businesses are getting on board that train...and guess what? The black market 'vacc cards' are showing up here and there

.Perhaps my mind just doesn't work that way - but what is the benefit of a 'fake card'? The shots are free and easily available - or you can decide not to get the vaccine and take your chances. Either is OK. What mentality avoids the shots and then lies about it? Not people I'd want to know. Shows a disdain for not only their own health - but for everyone around them.

When I quit smoking - it wasn't due to health reasons or public opinion. It was because it became problematic finding a place where smoking was permitted. My own stubbornness of 'you can't make me quit' gave way to 'this is just too much trouble'.

Going forward, I wonder if the light cases of covid affecting those already vaccinated....combined with the disadvantages of being excluded from public venues and jobs, etc, for the unvaccinated....will be more persuasive than all the cdc talk.


I've also wondered what would happen if it was announced that after NOV 1, covid 'shots' would no longer be free. THAT would be an interesting social experiment.

[Michael Harrington]

I really just wish this was all over.
I thought 3 months and it will pass...Just like Ebola!!!

How wrong I was.

Australia has just gone into Lockdown again....I'm sure there is more to it.

Stay safe all.

[savidge4]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I've also wondered what would happen if it was announced that after NOV 1, covid 'shots' would no longer be free. THAT would be an interesting social experiment.

All for this actually.. they are only $18.00 each.. BUT guess what.. the effect of this would go right down social / economic lines... and even the thought in todays world would be considered "Racist" If giving away $100 for getting the shot wont get them to do it, charging for it wont either.

There are some new studies indicating the number of "Infected" is probably close to 100,000,000 in the States - or 1/3 the population. That would suggest that there is 20% that arent going to get it...and the number is probably less than that considering those that cant get the shot IE under the age of 12.

I dont have a card... but I have had Covid... where does that put me? If I happen to live in say NY or NJ, or CA... it means I would have to move just to goto the grocery store.

Meanwhile the "vaccinated" are going to run around all happy go lucky spreading the disease amongst themselves and the virus is going to mutate and not be effected by the "Vaccine" and then what? Another shot right? and the new shot will cost $21.00 each.. and we will go months to get people vaccinated, and guess what will happen... the virus will mutate and the cycle will start all over again.

Im calling it now... its gonna happen... The writting is on the wall... WATCH

PS, your safe, because you already had Covid

[Mark Singletary]

Originally Posted by savidge4

BUT, if you ( at this point ) have had Covid, you cant get it, and you cant pass it on.

That's so last week. Now they are saying even if you have been confirmed as having COVID, you still need the shot to lessen the chances of reinfection.


https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm

Mark

[savidge4]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

That's so last week. Now they are saying even if you have been confirmed as having COVID, you still need the shot to lessen the chances of reinfection.


https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm

Mark

That may be what they are saying.... BUT there is absolutely no scientific evidence to back that up. Science data says the exact opposite. At one point ( now removed ) Mederna and Pfizer actually had warnings about the increase in potential side effects if you were already positive. If you look at "COVID-19-related Myocarditis" you will find that a large percentage of cases are found in those that Vaccinated, after already having Covid.as an example.

At this point I think they are just chasing a number... they want X% Vaccinated as compared to other countries. And again the DATA says they are barking up the wrong tree, and they really should be testing for the "Total Cases" number to better understand where we stand for "Herd Immunity"

This little doozy of an article written about a statement from the CDC: ( https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/06/h...infection.html ) I dont even know where to begin. there are now 17 known cases the world over since the very beginning of Covid that have be reinfected ( https://jim.bmj.com/content/69/6/1253 ) so how exactly is the unvaccinated twice as likely when they data pool to draw from is a whopping 17 people the world over? Thats not even a "stretch" its just an out an out lie.

[savidge4]

I was having a discussion this evening about PR and Marketing, and the use of the news media to build these things. The people I was speaking with where wanting to go into a direction ( Direction B ) and yet there was existing communications ( Direction A ) and message very much searchable on the internet that would contradict Direction B. I was pointing these things out and how this would play into the consumers minds as not jiving and losing the most important variable in sales and that is Trust.

Say maybe 10 years ago, and 15 and 20 years ago for sure... if we saw something on the news, we basically took it at face value as fact. Todays digital world is anything but that. News as time and again proven that the facts are not so much facts, and being very selective with where you look you generally can find a contradiction.

Obviously going on Social Media etc is not valid... sourcing from other media sources is not accurate. But in terms of medical stuff? J&J, Pfizer, and Mederna are still in the "clinical Trial" phase with the special exception for emergency use. There is up to date data and information from phase 1, 2 and 3 right at our fingertips... forget all other sources, you can literally click click click and go right to the horses mouth.

The issue with Covid... is clearly what the horses mouth is saying, and what The CDC or Fauci or far right quacks or far left quacks are saying are at odds with each other.

The "Vaccines" are 90% effective at keeping you out of the Hospital. I personally have never argued the fact, because there is data to show that. Its an Inhibitor, and by all rights a good one. But in NO WAY is it 90% effective and stopping you from getting it. There is simply no data within the Clinical Trials to prove that - as in Zero Nada None

Now they say oh unvaccinated are 2x likely to get re-infected and all of the "Testing" IE the 3 well documented "Clinical Trials" not once actually test for a positive or negative result ( they rely on symptoms only ) how and where do they come up with this stuff? There are plenty of papers that include from the CDC the reinfection is "Rare" and NOW all of the sudden if you dont get vaccinated you are going to get it twice?

Its this stuff right here that has diminished the Trust of many, In #1 the Govt, #2 People like Fauci, and organizations like the CDC, and #3 The news for not doing what we all thought was their job and finding the truth.

When you look at what we are being told, and what is the actual clinical results of the clinical trials.. the information is at odds... and you have to wonder why are these people spewing anything but the results of the clinical trial data, or is there a path we the American People are being led down?

Its really bad PR and its really bad Marketing.

Things like this sometimes it takes looking to the past to understand the present. click here for the history of some of the "pandemics" in recent history ( https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-res...pandemics.html )

Look at something like this; https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-res...hree-waves.htm and pay attention to the "Waves" chart. We are NOT in the middle of wave 4... we are on the down side of wave 1. Notice historically wave 2, makes wave 1 look like childs play.

We are on the cusp of wave 2. Wave 2 will consist of the current Type B Genome Variant Delta, mutating us into the Type D genome class. ( Genomes A, B, and C are already present - A being the original, and weakest, B being the strongest, and C being weaker than B )

I wont go as far to say we are being lied to... but there are glimpses of the truth being tempered. There have been articles about being a mutation or 2 away from breaking the Type B Genome. J&J, Pfizer, and Mederna have already stated there will be dosage price increase for the new Vaccine booster... The FACTS are painting a very clear picture. As we know History repeats itself - and that path is very clear.

Trying to keep the fear level down, or optimistic thinking, or simply trying to cover their tails.. how ever you want to look at it, the information we are being "fed" is misleading, factless, and going to bite us in the tail end. The current data, past examples and present actins are all pointing to the fact the worst is yet to come.

Its only a conspiracy until it comes to fruition, and this "Conspiracy" has way to many variables going for it, not to be Truth

[Mark Singletary]

Originally Posted by savidge4

I
Now they say oh unvaccinated are 2x likely to get re-infected and all of the "Testing" IE the 3 well documented "Clinical Trials" not once actually test for a positive or negative result ( they rely on symptoms only ) how and where do they come up with this stuff? There are plenty of papers that include from the CDC the reinfection is "Rare" and NOW all of the sudden if you dont get vaccinated you are going to get it twice?

The link I shared a couple of posts ago and the articles you mentioned are all talking about a new study on the CDC site that says if you've gotten COVID and because of that you are not vaccinated, you are two times more likely to get COVID again compared to someone who had COVID and also had been fully vaccinated.

The point is, right or wrong, they want everyone to get the shots regardless if you have natural immunity or not. In the study they point out that natural immunity may only last for 90 days.

Mark

PS I agree that most of the news, right, left and so called center is more like opinion and spin than facts.

[Michael Harrington]

Half of Australia is currently in Lockdown.
I am unsure what to believe....Sometimes I think there is an ulterior motive for all of this.

[Profit Traveler]

Originally Posted by Michael Harrington

Half of Australia is currently in Lockdown.
I am unsure what to believe....Sometimes I think there is an ulterior motive for all of this.

You sell Anti Aging Stem Cell Patches? Clinically proven?

What if someone told you that it made them magnetic.

Ulterior motives? Well Funeral Homes must be booming all over the world.

[Kay King]

Talk about 'chasing numbers' - the CDC was issuing warnings about some states - and the numbers were super high....and it took days for the CDC to admit it was using a weekly number as a daily number. I think now we are getting perhaps more disinformation than real info from many news sources.

actual clinical results of the clinical trials..

Isn't the most critical 'clinical trial' made up of what is actually happening?



I thought this short AP article explained the numbers in a way that made sense...or maybe not...


https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-970830023526

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Talk about 'chasing numbers' - the CDC was issuing warnings about some states - and the numbers were super high....and it took days for the CDC to admit it was using a weekly number as a daily number.

Do you have a link for that?

[Kay King]

There are several lnks and not all agree - the initial news was on a media outlet last night.

Here is one although it doesn't have the same claim Florida has made

https://www.wptv.com/coronavirus/cdc...ntly-16-deaths

https://www.politico.com/newsletters...d-field-493916

There are other links but they are to sources where you must sign up/subscribe to read the articles....and I won't do that.


There were announcements a few weeks ago that some states are not reporting daily cases...because the case load had declined. Those announcements were not considered important enough to be featured on nightly news - but you would think the CDC would be up to date about it.


I have my own 'brand' of skepticism - and the attempts to reactivate the 'OMG - we're doomed' mindset seems manipulated to me. I'm not sure if the goal is to maintain 'control' or to frighten people into getting the shots....either way I don't care for it.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

There are several lnks and not all agree - the initial news was on a media outlet last night.


Here is one although it doesn't have the same claim Florida has made


https://www.wptv.com/coronavirus/cdc...ntly-16-deaths


https://www.politico.com/newsletters...d-field-493916

There are other links but they are to sources where you must sign up/subscribe to read the articles....and I won't do that.

I'm going to assume it's true. It sounds like a recording error, maybe a miscommunication between counties, the state, and the CDC.

It looks like the numbers were bundled when submitted, and that would count for the error at the CDC.Maybe a clerical error at the CDC. Who knows? And maybe the report of the error is wrong.

[Kay King]

If the report of the error was wrong, CDC wouldn't have 'corrected' the numbers...and they did.

[discrat]

Hey guys down here in San Antonio the Mayor and a Judge went against Governor Abbott and got a Decision in their favor to require a mandate for all kids in public schools to wear Masks in Bexar County ( San Antonio)


Abbot says he is going to appeal it so things are getting interesting down here. I'm all for it with this delta thing spreading like wildfire.

https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2021...n-on-mandates/

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I thought this short AP article explained the numbers in a way that made sense...or maybe not...


https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-970830023526

I reread this article.

It seems that the CDC always posted weekend numbers as a batch. That's why, every weekend, for over a year, we see a huge drop in cases on Sunday, and a sharp rise in cases,/hospitalizations/deaths on Monday.

The article says that because the CDC gets information at certain times, the results can be posted the next day...in this case, they made a mistake of three days worth of cases over 2 days (If I read it right.)

The 7 day running daily average would be unaffected. It wasn't a matter of the wrong numbers, just being credited the wrong day.

The fluff was over the CDC not giving the real daily numbers over the weekend, when they had the ability to give the true daily numbers, instead of batching them over a weekend.

At least that's my take.

One thing I have noticed is that reporters that write the articles sometimes get the story wrong. That would explain the multiple versions of this story.

[savidge4]

Read ALL of the headlines today... Moderna this and that and the other... then read this article that was published yesterday 8/12 and you wonder what the? ( https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...-vaccine-group )

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by savidge4

Read ALL of the headlines today... Moderna this and that and the other... then read this article that was published yesterday 8/12 and you wonder what the? ( https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...-vaccine-group )

That's funny considering that we only had natural herd immunity against the Spanish flu back then, and using blood transfusions from recovering patients to treat the population?

And most wore the useless masks, that dramatically increased, respiratory phemonia, and it fizzed out on its own after two years, (the virus).

In Australia it is all one sided, tv, radio and newspaper coverage only, with age brackets getting younger and younger, while they push the vaccines like a new, icecream flavor. And rubbish those, that do a long, lost art of basic research.

The almighty jab, cures all, at least til MSM says it doesn't.

[Angela V. Edwards]

How many times in this thread have we been assured that if we get the jab, if we contract Covid, it will be mild, we won't need to be hospitalized, and we surely won't die? Dozens? Last time 49 people who were fully vaccinated in New Jersey died from Covid that was waved away because the people were old and infirm (same people who Covid has always been most dangerous for).



We've been told that "the masks don't always work" (then why in the blazes did we have to wear them for 14 months??) but if we say anything about the vaccine not being "all that", we are lectured soundly by the pro-vaccine crowd.



Now, we've got a healthy, young 36 year old fully vaccinated man who caught Covid, spent a month in the hospital, and then passed away. I understand the pro-vaccine crowd has an agenda, but how does one explain this?

Vaccinated Las Vegas flight attendant dies from COVID



What do you want to bet his airline forced him to be vaccinated?

[Mark Singletary]

Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards

Now, we've got a healthy, young 36 year old fully vaccinated man who caught Covid, spent a month in the hospital, and then passed away. I understand the pro-vaccine crowd has an agenda, but how does one explain this?

I agree with at least parts of many of the things you write here. But IIRC most of your "yeah buts" are all about 1 guy or 10 women or 13 whatever. All small numbers who had bad results with the vaccines or masks or whatever.

This is never and was never about the one. It's about the 300 million or the 7 billion.

As I pointed out in my post about it might have been an aspirin that killed someone not a vaccine, I was making a point. Anyone (or any 100 people) can die of or have bad results from anything whether it's the vaccine, Tylenol, seatbelts, Elmo the firefighter masks, a piece of chicken or anything else. People die from things all day long every day. You might be surprised what all kills people. But they don't ban seatbelts because one guy couldn't get out of his car due to a seatbelt and died because there are millions of others that didn't have that problem. The one guy dying is bad, they wish he hadn't, but it's not enough to change everything.

Anyone can be "special." A few years I, little old me, had an entire huge medical center befuddled with my condition which was life and death. They did not know how to fix my problem, but they had to move quick to fix it or I was going to die.

Exceptions happen in every part of life. But they aren't the rule. Find 10,000 people who died from the vaccine and now maybe you have a story to talk about. But with 1 guy here or there or 12 people here or there? I hate to say it but those people are dispensable in a sense. That sounds wicked and cruel but like I said nobody is looking at the ones or the tens because they are looking at the millions and the billions in making their decisions. And no one is looking at the 40,000 (or however many) after vaccine reports because most of those are things like my arm is sore.

My two cents.

Mark

[Angela V. Edwards]

If you look at all the fully vaccinated people who have contracted Covid (some getting sick, some passing away, and others having zero symptoms) then you can't truthfully say "Covid is the pandemic of the unvaccinated" which everybody seems to be repeating all over the place. No, it's not. Here are the figures:


36.3 million americans have had covid. That's 11% of the population
621,000 have died from Covid. That's .18% of the population. Less than one percent.
168 million Americans are fully vaccinated. That's 51.2% of the population.


First of all, the death from Covid has slowed way, way down. If the number of deaths had remained similar to what it was at the start, we'd have over a million people or more dead by now.


We have 89% of the population that has never contracted Covid. 51.2% of the population is fully vaccinated. If "Covid is the pandemic of the unvaccinated, then 37.8 percent of the US population should have had Covid by now but have never had it.


Think things through before you go around parroting the Talking Points.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards

How many times in this thread have we been assured that if we get the jab, if we contract Covid, it will be mild, we won't need to be hospitalized, and we surely won't die? Dozens? Last time 49 people who were fully vaccinated in New Jersey died from Covid that was waved away because the people were old and infirm (same people who Covid has always been most dangerous for).

We've been told that "the masks don't always work" (then why in the blazes did we have to wear them for 14 months??) but if we say anything about the vaccine not being "all that", we are lectured soundly by the pro-vaccine crowd.

Now, we've got a healthy, young 36 year old fully vaccinated man who caught Covid, spent a month in the hospital, and then passed away. I understand the pro-vaccine crowd has an agenda, but how does one explain this?

They are cherry picking in AU, as well, by saying, "look this guy got Covid, jab away" but l don't blindly listen to f..whitted politicians, who think that the world is going to end.

People can mask up several times, and cover their noses, all they want they still won't work. Since very fine particles breathed out by another muzzled person, will go straight through your one, and enter your lungs. Unless you are wearing a hazmat suit or rubber mask with filters, they are useless.

Yeah, the walk on air, look at me, ain't l clever, jabs, just research Israel, with 100% vacced, (and a small percentage who didn't) and see an obvious pattern emerging.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

They are cherry picking in AU, as well, by saying, "look this guy got Covid, jab away" but l don't blindly listen to f..whitted politicians, who think that the world is going to end.

Shane? meet Angela.

Angela? meet Shane.

[Kay King]

If we are going to quote Israel stats - let's get it right.

But then the vaccination effort actually took hold. Israel dropped from a high of around 10,000 new daily cases in January to a seven-day average of as low as 10 last month.

It began logging some days with zero deaths in April, and has recorded about 100 confirmed deaths in the last three months. If there is one country that reinforced the efficacy of the vaccines, it became Israel. And if there was one country that epitomized the sloppiness of the anti-vaccine movement, it, too, was Israel.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...n-some-reason/

The pattern that emerged in Israel is simple - the more vaccinated people, the fewer cases and deaths from covid. Cause....effect...

In the US (and elsewhere?) more employers and schools and entertainment venues are requiring vaccination of workers/customers. No one will force you to be vaccinated but what you can do for entertainment or where you can work may be increasingly limited. For there to be 'break through' cases, there must be exposure to the virus...increasingly, vaccinated individuals do not want to be exposed to those who aren't.

Will the pro/con arguments be reminiscent of the 'second hand smoke issue' of years past?

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Will the pro/con arguments be reminiscent of the 'second hand smoke issue' of years past?

Was the second hand smoke 'debate" ever a political issue? This mostly happened long ago, before I followed politics at all. It wouldn't have registered as political to me, even if it was.

Because I think the vaccine "debate" is purely a political issue. It doesn't seem to be a science issue.

[Kay King]

Yes, it was a political issue and a health issue. The basis was we KNEW tobacco companies had lied to the public for years...that had been proven in court. IN the case of covid, if you read much of the anti-vax text, one of the claims is 'the govt/experts are lying' but the proof seems anecdotal/interpretation/extrapolation.

The big argument on second hand smoke was the 'right's issue....one side claimed a 'right to smoke' while the other claimed they had the 'right to clean air'. First 'solution' was to create smoking and non-smoking sections....then it changed to 'legal mandates' of 'no smoking'. The politics of the argument eventually gave way to the PROOF provided that second hand smoke was a risk to non-smokers.

Today we have people claiming they have a right to refuse to be vaccinated....and others saying they have a right to avoid exposure to those who are unvaccinated.

Maybe it's just that in a free country if there are people who are FOR something - there will be others AGAINST it? and vice versa.


Media manipulation is real and it's why everyone needs to do research before choosing 'sides'. When electronic cigs were first sold in the US in 2003, there was a big outcry about the 'safety' of e-cigs. There were blogs and sites warning of side effects and long term effects....but if you did the research you learned 95% of those sites were owned and operated by big tobacco companies. When Philip Morris, etc, began to PURCHASE vaping manufacturers...those 'fear' sites disappeared.


Always the drama, always the 'slant', eventually a solution....it's how we do things?

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Shane? meet Angela.

Angela? meet Shane.

Yeah, l have been following Angela, which has a good head of her shoulders, not so much the other, one,... what was his name, starts with M, or maybe F?

Originally Posted by Kay King

If we are going to quote Israel stats - let's get it right.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...n-some-reason/

The pattern that emerged in Israel is simple - the more vaccinated people, the fewer cases and deaths from covid. Cause....effect...

In the US (and elsewhere?) more employers and schools and entertainment venues are requiring vaccination of workers/customers. No one will force you to be vaccinated but what you can do for entertainment or where you can work may be increasingly limited. For there to be 'break through' cases, there must be exposure to the virus...increasingly, vaccinated individuals do not want to be exposed to those who aren't.

Will the pro/con arguments be reminiscent of the 'second hand smoke issue' of years past?

Lets get it right, there is propaganda and information, there is also cause and affect, as well as blind trust, and abuse of power.

And antivaccers are not tin foil, nutter lepers, as MSM likes to paint them, since they have their fair share of top, experts, and Israel, has just told its 100% double vacced population, to mask up again, til they get the booster shot.

Why would they say that?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-israel-study

The Guardian isn't the best source but will do in this case, and even though they dance around numbers, Israel is over 100% vaccinated.

But the Delta variant is spooking them and they are masking up again, indoors. Or the shots are not very effective for Delta.

So they mask up, and wait for the booster that should protect them from the new variant?

And Natural Herd Immunity, is as Harry Potter said, "the name that shall not be spoken".

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Israel is over 100% vaccinated.

Very true. I suspect that over 120% of the people in Israel have been vaccinated.

It's so good having you back.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Yes, it was a political issue and a health issue. The basis was we KNEW tobacco companies had lied to the public for years...that had been proven in court.

I'm sorry, what I meant by "Political" was that one political party took one side and the other party took the other side.

I didn't mean tobacco companies lying to the public. I just don't remember one political party arguing with the other political party about second hand smoke, or even about the health issues of smoking.

Something I just thought of. Back when these issues were being discussed, there wasn't the cable TV political channels we have today with agendas. It was just "The News". And the newspapers just reported "The News".

So......
My suspicion is that, if the question "Is smoking bad for you" were asked today, and not 50 years ago, one party would take one side, and the other party would take the other side, and both would fight to the death.

We would see headlines like ;
"Smoking leads to porn addiction"
"Smoking cures man of AIDS"
"Jesus smoked two packs a day, report reveals"
"Over 100% of the people in Israel smoke cigarettes"

[Kay King]

"Over 100% of the people in Israel smoke cigarettes"



actually it was 120%....

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Very true. I suspect that over 120% of the people in Israel have been vaccinated.

It's so good having you back.

Ok, ok the sources l got this from quoted, 101 to 106% vaccinated in Israel, or people, that have citizenship in Israel but were, not in the country.

And we all know how you are with numbers.

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I keep telling people...the voices you hear in your head are not sources. Dreams are not sources.

Something a ghost told you isn't a source.

Something my cat tells me? That's a source.

For you it is a sauce.

[Kay King]

what I meant by "Political" was that one political party took one side and the other party took the other side.

What a difference a few years make - if the tobacco issue were this year I'm sure it WOULD be 'political' - because everything is now whether it makes sense or not.

[Mark Singletary]

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/17/a...hnk/index.html

Locking down an entire country because of one case = overkill or smart? Your thoughts?

Mark

[Kay King]

I saw that and don't understand a lockdown 'for 3 days'....'starting at 11:59 PM'.


Doesn't get more exact than that - but why '3 days'?